Stone Vessels of the Pyramid of Djoser: The Original Finds of Galleries 6 &7
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2023
- #saqqara #stonevases #ancientegypt
The stone vessels found under the Stepped Pyramid of Djoser and those like them have become the newest big thing in the Lost Civilization Lost Ancient High Technology industry.
The issue of provenance is an Achilles Heel in the selection of IMPOSSIBLE PRECISION therefore advanced ancient computers and machining argument.
Let's look at those stone vessels that do have impeccable provenance.\ and how they were found.
Lauer, JP - La pyramide à degrés 3 Compléments (1939)
archive.org/details/Lauer_193...
Vol 35: Annales du Service des Antiquités de l'Égypte (1935)
archive.org/details/ASAE-35-1...
40,000 hard stone vases in Imhoteb museum
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One point of the lost ancient camp (especially from Ben) is, that the design/structure of the granite vases is far superior to the alabaster ones (establishing a fictitious separation for their agenda). In the picture @7:54 one can clearly see, that both granite and alabaster vessels use the same art style / design.
The video i just uploaded has great link to a paper listing the styles/types. Yes alabaster / calcite. It takes a few times longer to do those types of stones to others
As an observation I would remind people to view this debate for what it is = a business.... The LAHT just as say a fast food restaurant would do is "following their menu" which represents niche markets. So one LAHT'er focuses upon vases while another rambles endlessly about certain structures and so on much as one restaurant would hype their burgers with another their chicken sandwiches.
This is why vase numbers is the latest soup du jour for LAHT as they proverbially "throw spaghetti" at the wall to see what sticks = and they run with it. In this case they are as always using "inferences" - specifically speaking in terms of large numbers - rather than directly addressing the nature of those vases - because that lends to their narrative.
Say you found perhaps 50 well made vases and 900 so-so ones. That sounds normal consistent with different craftsmen of differing skill levels producing their wares. Instead speak only in terms of "thousands" - while leaving it hanging in the background as to actual quality and amounts = and the viewer's imagination will do the rest consistent with your telling them over and over about all this supposed lost LAHT........ It is pure behavioral psychology folks. Ad men et al do it all the time to market trash.
Scruples-Free junk food. Ben not only eats the vase sandwiches that he sells he also eats whatever spaghetti doesn't stick to the wall. While Jimmy sells the Richat burger I don't think he actually eats his own product which is worse. Jimmy is inexcusably unscrupulous and knows the Richat Structure is a lie but sells the con anyway because no one else is selling it. Ben might be genuinely dumb and just utterly devoid of critical thinking skills. Ben seems like he actually believes the lie that he sells but has no moral qualms with fudging numbers or misinterpreting data to sell his argument and he will duck and run when challenged. Either way their comeuppance is due.
Add Graham Hancock.
I think they are the types that don't care about debunking arguments or about misrepresenting and lying, because they are convinced that their big picture is right.
Anything goes, especially if it adds the bonus of 'fame and fortune'.
I think those vases were bought to show off your status, the more expensive your decorative stone vessels the more money/power you had. Like how people spend tens of thousands on a wrist watch, it is a status symbol and at the same time you can genuinely appreciate the craftmanship and artistry. Like a super expensive Rolex takes a functional object beyond what is practical for status and artistry, similar to these stone vessels perhaps.
Yes part of it was likely status - and part of it was based upon their beliefs that things required in life were also required for death. So I go back to my example of Khuwy who was an Old Kingdom Vizier whose tomb contained many paintings of all manner of foods.
Obviously Khuwy was "an epicurean" who by then rather than filling his tomb with actual food opted for "the cheaper method" of placing depictions of all of his favorite foods in his tomb. Then in their minds what was there = also existed in the afterlife for them. The same for shabtis. I have watched docos of tombs being opened to see Egyptologists find boxes full of shaptis - dozens of them. Once again in their minds those miniature statues = servants in the afterlife.
Thus early on the Egyptians took these beliefs literally and thus if you liked say beer you would fill your tomb with as many beer jars as you could manage. Later on they sufficed with "symbolism" of objects as equating to the real thing. Remember that despite Tut being a minor Pharaoh his small tomb nevertheless contained a lot of various foodstuffs and spices to say nothing of dozens of walking sticks and so forth. Pharaohs wanted "plenty of everything".
Well, it could be that looters didn't appreciate the vases as valuable. They were looking for gold or other treasure.
@@jamesneary663 Yes. Also things like the impact of earthquakes which jossle about closely packed stone/earthen containers causing them to break.
Finally there is malicious destruction to consider. Why do so many statues in Egypt have their noses hacked off??? Answer: the Egyptians believed - literally believed - the spirit of the dead required what the living needed.
Thus they hacked noses off statues to prevent the spirit from inhabiting the statue as "it could not breathe". They would chisel off spells of unpopular Pharaohs believing it denied them their afterlife = or as you alluded to destroy objects in tombs believed to be needed by the spirit of the dead - to include mummies.
Destroying a mummy in their mind might translate into the tomb owner's spirit being unable to haunt the looters as it would then lack "a vessel" to inhabit.
SGD, providing me with ammunition to fight the lost ancient high technology crowd amongst my friends. Thank you for your efforts and your videos. 💜
My brother in arms lol
Technology was used. Regardless if it was advance or not. It's still Technology. So you're in a losing battle. Because these videos support the idea that ancient humans used more then copper chisels and Rocks to build things. These vases alone is the advance technology. 😅😅😅 using Rocks to make stuff is more advance then using plastic to make stuff. 😅😅😅
I'll give you the same challenge I give everyone who denies the advanced tech of the past.. simply reproduce anything they've done..
Use any technology you wish to just simply reproduce one course of the pyramid or make a diarite bowl..
Whether it was high tech or low tech we can't reproduce anything they've done so until we do it's pretty safe to assume they knew things we don't..
However they did it. it was easy for them
+
@@kungfumaster12
It could also be used as ammo for the argument of advanced technology. They damn sure didn't chisel those perfectly round and symmetrical artifacts, so some kind of technology was used. And until we know what that technology was, it is, in fact, lost. Same goes for moving 1000 ton stones. It cost 10 million dollars and took 11 days to move the "Levitating Mass" stone in the US. It needed a custom trailer with over 150 wheels on it. That's a third of the weight the ancient builders moved, seemingly with ease. OH, and they only moved that big, expensive rock a third of the way some of the megaliths were moved in Egypt. Like another commentor said, your fighting a losing battle with this one.
Thanks for showing all the different styles found.
Very telling that Ben at Uncharted x talks about these vases ad nauseum but leaves out these facts he surely knows...💰💰💰
The LAHT crowd is always scoffing at experimental work in making stone vessels, saying they don't look as good as ancient Egyptian vessels. But as this video demonstrates, vessels from a relatively narrow time range exhibit varying degrees of quality. At some point it would be interesting to take a random sample of a couple dozen of them in pictures. Then throw in several pictures of vessels produced by experimentalists down the line when more have been produced. Challenge people to pick which are authentic ancient Egyptian and which aren't just based on the old eye test. Given that they don't seem to be able to tell the difference between cores produced by ancient Egyptians and those done by experimentalists I don't think they would have a very high success rate.
They scoff at examples which prove out a process via arguments relating to aesthetics. That shows they are seeking reasons to not believe - rather than accepting what the evidence shows. Yet there are examples of different things created by the same craftsmen in history which reflect widely different aesthetic outcomes because = the time and motivation behind their creation was different.
It should be further noted the LAHT schtick themselves never provide demonstrations to bear out their incredulous claims. If a given method of production supposedly can not yield a given outcome then they need to demonstrate this since the actual experts conclude otherwise. They can not/will not however as they lack requisite variables such as time constraints or specific methods of manufacturing - to say nothing of the relative skill of the craftsman.
The latter is important here coincidentally. Demonstrations of plausibility while done by craftsmen typically represent ones whereby the artisan in question likely had little experience in producing ancient Egyptian style pottery. If however they spent years perfecting their technique then quality outcome would accordingly improve.
The LAHT might hold up a vase likely created by a master craftsman millennia ago who probably spent their entire life perfecting their skills + who was engaged by a patron who supported them for however long it took to produce the piece. You can not compare such examples. Modern demonstrations merely bear out the process = not necessarily the outcome per se.
Jean philippe Lauer himself writes: "Many of these vases are remarkable for the beauty of their form or material, the perfection of their workmanship, the novelty or originality of their type."
Odd the Egyptians just chucked the lost high technology vases in with their alleged crude ones. I thought they had immense reverence for the lost high technology precision Atlantian vases? But they just "stack them up like Tupperware" with the other ones? Amazing. It's almost like they didn't view them that way. How very peculiar indeed.
Good old RedDark. Savin the day yet again.
I'm going to go dig up some stone vessels today! 😊
What on earth were they thinking stacking all that stuff there though!? A deep belief in an afterlife for broken crockery? Hope that a future technology could put them back together?
That's one big golden arch of the covenant going UP and down the central shaft 😁👍
With a detailed 3-D scan of all the shards and pieces put in a computer program, it should be possible to virtually reconstruct all these objects and make a detailed inventory of it. Wonder how so many of these things got in private hands though.
Alien lazer ships could just travel back in time & make more
www.arnoldmeijer.nl/Stone%20Vessels/index.html
excellent archive of private and museum collections
The cost would be in the tens of millions of dollars. Hilarious.
@@Chris.Davies I worked many years in archives, and know the instruments they use and how much money is involved in super hi-res digitalization, this complete 3-D scan + AI-expert program should be not too far fetched to accomplish this task in a couple of years.
@@JFJ12 It's an issue of allocation of time and money. There are sites being destroyed or looted all the time or pyramids, temples, etc. falling apart, as well as the ongoing costs of curating and exhibiting materials. Would be a hard sell to justify spending millions on project like this. Unless there was a wealthy donor who contributed money specifically earmarked for the project.
Why were the vast majority of the vessels broken? Was that done on purpose, did looters do the damage? It would be great to comment on that JD.
There are massive underground structures under the entire Giza Plateau, so it's not surprising there are tunnels under the Step Pyramid, too.
Please tell us this is a joke.....
@@varyolla435 Oh, no. It's no joke. You'd know that if this was a subject you actually kept up with, but it's obviously not. I know that because if you did, you'd know what I'm talking about, and that I'm right. It's not some big secret there's a huge underground complex under the Giza Plateau. It might behoove you to actually check out what someone is talking about before insinuating they're wrong. Have a good day, and remember, Google is your friend. 😉
@@dextermorgan1 "Google is your friend......" = 🤣🤣 Make sure your "French model" buys the dinner......
Reminds me of alien covident
The number of granite vases doesnt matter... if there is just ONE granite vase made to the level seen in the thumbnail... it still begs the question.. How did they do it with the tools at there disposal?
Amongst my videos are demonstrations that can be repeated. Flatness and roundness for instance are achieved with very simple techniques. I know because i looked to the past masters and posted how to films.
It's really not my problem if you and the lost tech community lacks the interest to do the same.
Why would they fill those shafts with this? Broken pieces i get that, but some are still perfect.
It seems such a waste.
If these vases were ancient to them and far beyond what they could make, the question of why becomes even more bizarre.
Why throw away a perfect ancient vase that can't be reproduced? It would be priceless!
Not exactly sure what was going on, some seem to have been shoved it and probably broken beforehand. Others placed with care.
@@SacredGeometryDecoded I would assume that the pyramid had been entered by looters multiple times. Can only imagine that if they were looking for goodies or were frustrated by not finding any goodies the scene would be along the lines of a bull in a China shop.
Used ceremonial, abused and dumped down a shaft
Alabaster 😂 try it with diorite these vase are way older then the step pyramids.
I have 🤣 and posted how to and raw footage. Tranluscent thin.
Also show how to get high level of “precision”
Weird that none of the lost high tech people show this at least, lay alone try it.
It takes about 4 times longer
The fact that some predate the Step Pyramid actually undermines your LAHT argument........ Consider Tut whose tomb contained objects clearly believed to have been "appropriated" from other tombs.
So if one admits that Djoser appeared to have similarly appropriated stone vessels created in some cases centuries earlier that makes the "timeframe" component of the LAHT incredulity moot.
You see if craftsmen have ample time to create something - as opposed to generating a lot of items quickly = then the so-called "primitive" technology becomes more plausible - and your argument moot....... So there might have been thousands of vases of varying levels of quality found under his pyramid = but you just admitted they were not all made in his lifetime - so what is your point then???
Sgd is like the Hoe_math of decoding LAHT grifters