How Bad Were Ash's League Losses ACTUALLY?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Before he was a Champion, Ash was known as a notorious choker. But how many of these Pokemon League losses were actually justified? Today I rank them from best to worst.
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No it’s not an April Fools video but I wish it was
Oh thank goodness.
Also #FCameron the biggest midfinger ever in the pokemon franchise he is the biggest noob of all noob and just Richie 2.0 aleast Riche dose appear in series beyond his first appearances in the anime.
My vote for worst loss that wasn't a league match was losing to Gary's Eevee... absolutely awful. The episode was fine, but losing to an Eevee that doesn't have Last Resort... that's a "maybe I should retire" moment.
I just looked at one of your old videos and I just realized you look and sound just like Jreg I'm going insane please tell me whether or not you're this person I'm god damn losing it.
@@joshhallam6342 Tobias was written in to keep the anime going, ash was supposed to win in the sinnoh league
Tobias:
- becomes a Pokémon Trainer
- gets a Darkrai and a Latios
- refuses to elaborate further
- leaves
And this is why I personally thought he was dope af growing up lmao
Cynthia: So you have chosen... *death.*
@@grandempress1947 pee on da Gina
Yeah... and... We don't explain how like anyone got their pokémon, even when it's legendary and Tobias looks way older than Ash when Ash already seen like what 20 legendaries. Only by looping for legendaries you can probably find and catch some if you are a veteran trainer like Tobias. For me, it's just make sense that this kind of trainer exist
Part of me hopes he comes back in journeys just for ash to beat him
"How bad were Ash's League Losses?"
*Yes.*
This is the correct answer, you cracked the code
I think you mean " HOW BAD WERE ASH LEAGUE LOSSES ACTUALLY "?
@@jaretco6423 I thought that too lol
@@jaretco6423 finish it off with false swipe
Red fans: t h e y w e r n t b a d a t a l l
I still like to imagine that Tobias only had 4 level 3 Bodoofs left on his team and just rushed the region with Darkrai and Latios
🤡
I forget where I read this but apperently Tobias also had an Entei and his own Lucario. But still short of a full team of 6.
@@Redpoppy80 You could probably put just out any legendary, mythical, or generally overpowered Pokemon that existed at that time on his roster to fill out the rest of Tobias's team and it likely would've made sense in context, in my opinion
It’s been confirmed he had a Mewtwo as well for whatever reason
@@matthewkuscienko4616
Tobias had an Ash-Greninja.
Prove it wasn't on his team.
9:48 Don't forget, Cameron didn't even have 8 badges when he first met Ash, he thought he needed 7 for the league. Literally the only reason why he even got in was because Ash and crew were nice enough to tell him and help him find a gym that he could get his 8th badge in time. Incompetence is an understatement when describing Cameron and the fact that he went on to the next round just to lose soured the mood even more.
Cameron is basically that kid that has a few overleveled pokemon and neglects the rest of their team. Meanwhile not reading a scrap of dialogue or instructions.
@@tyranitararmaldo Lucario Hydreigon Samurott. Basically me playing White 2 lmao
Just thinking about that boils my blood to the point where I'm surprised I don't end up like Makoto Shishio from Rouroni Kenshin, he and the other stop him from going to johto where he thought the unova league was going to happen, they told him about the 8th badge he needed to get in and then he didn't know he needed the register and you have Ash begging on his freaking head down to nurse Joy to let him register, I blame the writers because they basically humiliated Ash by having him lose to Cameron, I would have been okay if he lost to Virgil but losing to Cameron after what he did for the guy? that was rate a bull$h!+
@@AnonymousEnigma19 Oshawott should have one shotted Hydreigon in my book
@@kyks2017 no offense but I wouldn't care how it happened I would have wanted Ash to win that because he did not deserve that HUMILIATION!!!
I love the fact that you can only confront the Elite Four after beating the League. It's an intermediate step that would be great to be implemented in the games.
I would argue SwSh actually kinda did it like that.
So like the Victory Road?
@@pn2294 Not actually. I referred to something like the B2W2 World Tournament or the SwSh Championship Cup. Or more precisely, the way the anime works: you first beat the gyms, then the Regional League, and only then you can challenge the Regional Elite Four and the champion.
We had that in competitive Pokemon back in my day. You had to win a tournament to even challenge a gym leader, same thing for the elite 4 (if someone even managed to get 8 badges lmao)
My good friend was the electric gym leader in BW, and I also knew a few others who were gym leaders. The leaders were mostly prominent community members, most people knew them anyways.
I only ever knew of one guy who beat the elite 4, funnily enough we had the same irl name and he was the older brother of one of my best friends in the community. And off course, pokemon being pokemon, I actually had a winning matchup against him in tournaments lol, I beat him once in a quarter finals game due to sheer luck on my part, Crits galore, never missing protects and so on... But we never got to fight in a tournament again so I will forever have a 1-0 score against him, which netted me the title of the biggest haxor in the community that year
Thanks for listening to this old man's 2010 competitive Pokemon stories.
@@Tungdil_01 yeah SwSh is proof to me why that’s a bad idea
Squirtle getting disqualified for being put to sleep still baffles me to this day. I guess hypnosis is the most powerful move by the anime's standards
I mean, it was a pain in the ass in Gen 1
I guess it's a nod to the Nintendo Cup's Sleep Clause, but even then that still let you have one Pokemon be asleep.
Meanwhile in Alola league, after it was assumed that Ash's rowlet had fainted face first on the ground, declared by Kahuna Nanu 'unable to battle' , Kahuna Hala literally cost Hau, his own grandson's victory by calling out that rowlet was actually asleep and called for a continuation of the match. I guess either they fixed the issue or because it wasn't caused by another pokémon's attack...
I mean by gen 1 standards being put to sleep is functionally the same as being KOed
@@PKMN649 I know but it's still weird because that's the only time in the entirety of the anime where sleep is considered grounds for elimination.
In my opinion, Ash should've been able to fight Virgil in the Unova Final, mirroring his loss to Harrison when fighting against Virgil's new type ace-in-the-hole: Sylveon. Ash's last Pokemon would be Scraggy (or even Scrafty if they decided to go that direction), and it would be in good shape, but then Sylveon comes out and absolutely demolishes it with a Moonblast. Ash, of course, would be completely dumbfounded, but him coming 2nd place after being so... lackluster in BW would be an accomplishment in itself.
Believe it or not, I think this was what was supposed to happen. I mean, literally everything allows us to believe it should have been that way (Virgil being introduced as the typical final opponent, Cameron only bringing 5 pokemon, a next eevee form being introduced in the following Gen...). Best wishes had a lot of its plot scrapped because of both studios and and bad ratings, as well as real life events. I 100% believe he would have defeated Cameron and lost to Virgil afterwards if things went up to plan, but there were changes in plans midway
@@bigfish5544 the unova series in general got screw over badly because mothernature is a dick to Japan.
That would’ve been so much better imo. Seriously why did it have to be Cameron man?
this actually would have been so much cooler lol
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 To be fair thee bar for "being cooler than the Cameron loss" is pretty low.
Fun fact about the team against Tobias: most the pokemon on it had battled against Legendary/Mythical pokemon before in series. Torkoal had fought Registeel, Swellow and Sceptile had fought Deoxys, and Pikachu had straight up beaten Regice. The remaining two either were a perfect type matchup and Sleep Talk (Heracross) or were outright stated to have a move that would have knocked out Darkrai if it landed (Gible with Drago Meteor). Granted, Ash definitely had other options that he really should have considered over at least Torkoal (like a certain Charizard who defeated an Articuno)
He also used a Pokémon from every region that he had traveled with up to that point
I would say Snorlax should have replaced Torkoal for that battle. Aside from being much stronger and bulkier, Snorlax could have turned Darkrai’s nightmares against it.
The battle of Snorlax vs Hypno (from Ash vs Harrison) had Snorlax go into a berserker mode when his dreams were eaten. Just imagine the damage Darkrai could have suffered, to say nothing of Latios taking an Ice Punch to the face.
@@alphabladelm2011 Well they had to make him lose. And showing Infernap Charizard and Snorlax lose without defeating any mons would have been underwhelming. And they were too lazy to give Tobias a team.
And Ash choose gible because he had a 100% win rate up till that point and, just like every poketuber in 2015, was convinced that having a 100% win rate meant it was his strongest Pokémon
@@alphabladelm2011 it wouldn’t have mattered; he was destined to lose
Ash vs. Harrison was so cool as a kid and seeing Blaziken actually pull off a narrow defeat against Charizard instantly made it one of my favorite pokemon. Rhis battle was also cool because Brock speculated that Harrison lost his next match due to not bringing Blaziken so as not to push it so hard after such an intense battle.
It also hands to the theory that me and many others believe with why ash didn't use Infernape against tobias despite how clearly Powerful infernape is
For sure! Ash vs Harrison was one of the more realistic battles imo. Especially because Ash didn't know anything about Hoenn Pokemon
Ash vs. Harrison has always been one of my favorite battles, and it's kind of grown a little since over the years I found a type of meta angle to it. One common criticism I've seen leveled at it is Charizard, a Fire/Flying-Type, losing to Blaziken, a Fire/Fighting-Type. The thing is...Charizard had never used ANY Flying-type attacks (barring...Fly, sorta). In fact, looking back at this point in the series, Charizard had been hyped up as a psuedo-Dragon (hell, even Lance THE Dragon-Type Master had a Charizard on his team in G/S/C) to the point that its Flying-type characteristic was almost forgotten about. By coincidence, Falkner, the first Johto Gym Leader and Flying Gym leader, had been treated as a complete joke.
Even if the Flying-type factor had been added, the only move Charizard could have used was Wing Attack (Gen II had so few viable Flying-type moves) and after a while Harrison and Blaziken might have caught onto that. On the flipside, Blaziken didn't know Thunder Punch which would have been super effective, so the fight was surprisingly fair with Blaziken simply being the stronger of the two. It was indeed probably one of the most realistic final league matches and most acceptable of Ash's losses.
@@Wolfboss7 another factor I like about that battle is they both subtly studied each others strategies for this
-Harrison realizing the ideal method to take down snorlax is to counter its own power against it
-Ash noticing houndooms best techniques involve its mouth so he uses bayleafs vines to close it
-Harrison watched the Gary battle to know about seismic toss so he likely told blaziken if it got stuck in one to do the flamethrower softening the blow
Charizard had intense battle previous round in match against Gary so maybe he was not 100% so Blaziken got edge in this battle
“This might be the worst episode title in the history of episode titles!”
Twenty five years prior…
“Will Goku be able to overcome the might of Freeza before Namek explodes!?”
FREEZA DEFEATED
Or the Ace one from one piece
THE END OF VEGETA
Kojo Kabuto will never die!
KOJI KABUTO DIES IN MAGMA!
Nothing tops a certain episode with Ace in One Piece
Or "Asuma dies!!!" in Shippuden in which Asuma dies
I despise Tobias’ whole existence, his whole reason of existing was literally just the writers being lazy about forcefully making ash lose so they just threw in an unbeatable character last minute, and especially being after the great match against Paul it was just plain annoying, oh and to add salt to the wound they proceed to rub it into our face by telling us only Ash was able to defeat Darkrai, literally telling us that “yeah Ash most likely would have won if not for this jack ass”
Facts and I'm still salty that he lost to alian or what ever his name is
He technically beat latios too but yeah
@@alijahjoy3118 it's Alain
@@eljordinio7647
I mean, no one else even got to Latios, but yeah, it’s pretty obvious Ash would have won the league if not for Tobias.
@@alijahjoy3118 I agree, greninga had every advantage in that fight. Sure mega charizard is extremely powerful. No one can deny that…. But ash-Greninga not only had type advantage, but was also using extremely effective moves. That should’ve been the season for him to win, not sun and moon
And then the writers tried to make you forget Ash's loss to Ritchie by having him win the Orange Islands against a Dragonite
That Dragonite used 10 F@cking MOVES.
@@YlO414 lol and that's how dragonite became my fav pokemon😂
@@YlO414
What, you don't teach your pokemon 10 moves?
What are you, some kind of weirdo that only trains pokemon for bobsledding?
Not a real league tho that Dragonite was broken as heck.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 only 4 moves in a match
One thing that makes ash losing to Cameron even worse is that right before the league, they introduced Virgil (the guy that only used eeveelutions) and it seemed like they were setting him up to be ash's league rival and the guy who would eventually beat him. And they had a perfect opportunity to have a logical reason for ash to lose the league, since Virgil used all eeveelutions they could have had him use a surprise Sylveon which would beat ash because not only is it a pokemon he's never seen before, but it's also a type he's never seen before. But rather than taking this opportunity to have provide a cool battle and tease the upcoming generation, they instead decided to have ash lose to the character that is literally just himself but worse
They also did that with Harrison’s Blaziken too, right? Of course that would have been better. Back then, Ash probably didn’t know that air slash was super effective
Back then, Ash didn’t even know about Air Slash.
The thing that pisses me off even more about the Cameron battle is that it makes Ash's Unova team look even weaker than it already did, because the only Pokémon of his that manage to get wins in it are Pikachu twice and Pignite twice, with those two even having the type advantage in all of those wins
Pignite striking a win on both the extremely powerful hydreigon and the ferrothorn that has been shown to be very good even in battles where he had a type disadvantage, was still very impressive. He only lost because of samurott and I think we should give credit where credit is due. Snivy also put up a fantastic battle against that newly evolved plot armored lucario. But yeah...
@@bigfish5544 isk what you mean by type disadvantage, figthting ia super efective against hydraigon and fire is 4x efective to ferrothorn
@@diegorafaelgarciagodosonof161 type advantage is less relevant in the Anime (look at ash vs greninja, Pikachu vs Serperior... ), advanced or not, Cameron's Hydreigon and ferrothorn were incredibly powerful pokemon. If anything it proved ash knew strategy at this point.
@@diegorafaelgarciagodosonof161 ah OK I think you misunderstood what I said. Cameron's Ferrothorn was the one at a type disadvantage here, and I meant he had been shown to be especially powerful even in battles where he had a type disadvantage
True ash had good moms like scraggy (who he should evolve) pignite (ditto ) and that crookadile
Cameron was basically the living embodiment of special type of plot armor known as “Beginner’s Luck”. He’s Ash if he somehow got all the way to the quarterfinals in the Indigo League.
Even Ash knew eight badges were needed for the Indigo League.
Ash didn't oversleep on the day of the League, nor did he need someone to beg the judges to let him into the tournament
It's always bugged me that they chose Charizars to be the pokemon that doesn't listen to Ash. Of ALL of his pokemon the only one besides Pikachu that he literally saved the life of was Charmander. That pokemon should have more loyal to him than any other besides Pikachu.
The ONLY argument for why Charizard wouldn't listen to him is because it had a previous trainer before it could count as a "traded" pokemon, but even then it's Badges that make them obey you so by the League he had 8 and Charizard should have listened anyways.
His Charizard always felt like a huge cop out excuse to give Ash an L when he normally would have won.
Yeah but Ash got the Boulder and Cascade badges for free. Charizard knew it and didn't respect him for it, lol. Plus it's kind of just punishment that his ace-in-the-hole obtained so early was his downfall, he failed to evolve his starter squad. Bulbasaur in particular was horribly neglected for battling.
@@danielpayne1597 no that was squirtle, who's first official battle was against Blaine lol
Bulbasaur got alot of fights
@@danielpayne1597 I have to agree here, Bulbasaur's purpose whit Ash was to evolve, but he noped out of it, afther all his former caretaker wanted his flower to bloom, but it never have.
In the anime pokemons dosent care about badges They are considered animals like By us only that They way smarter Than our animals but in general charizard was like a disobaying dog who needed training
@@bronsjefjer she did, but Bulbasaur straight up refused to evolve ; and I think the latter's wishes prevail over the previous caretaker, especially when said caretaker is depicted as a really nice person who would probably follow the Pokemon's desire. I would say Ash was right to let him be on this one. You can say a lot of things about Ash's battle skills, but the way he treats his Pokemons is arguably the best in the series.
The problem with the Richi loss, is that they used Team Rocket to force Ash into a losing spot.
In general the indigo League had horrible pacing because of team rocket shenanigans
Which didn't make sense as Richie was set up to basically be a better Ash. Since they establish Richie swept his preliminary matches with zero k.o's on his team. So already Ash was the underdog. Having Team Rocket handicap him was unneeded.
Also Squirtle falling asleep and being eliminated for that is B.S.
@@PlanetZoidstar Yeah it was all dumb
Yeah. Charizard may have cost ash the match but this literally wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for team rocket. They just would not leave ash alone and wore out most of his team so ash had to put Charizard in if it meant even a slight chance to win
@@PlanetZoidstar Perfect setup, terrible execution. Most of Ash's badges weren't earned by a proper victory but because of luck or earning the Gym Leader's respect(read "Pity"). He refuses to train for the league, looking for every excuse to slack off. Then we see that Ritchie is more competent. He nicknames his Pokémon and even put stickers on his PokéBalls so he could identify them. He had the edge on Team Rocket while Ash struggled with random ones. He's a much more competent Ash. All of that is good setup. Where they screwed up was Ash having no legitimate excuse to use Charizard. Every trainers Pokémon were well rested and healed before the finals. Instead of Ash's Pokémon being exhausted over days of battling, they shoehorn in Team Rocket to wear Ash down. The moral of "You need to own up for your mistakes" and "It's okay to lose" are undermined when Team Rocket sabotaged Ash and no one acknowledges this.
@@EnigmaBarry Exactly. It would have been so much better if Ash lost cleanly to Richie. Given Richie is stated to have clean swept the previous 4 rounds he really didn't need a handicap to believably beat Ash. Ash lost due to having the deck massively stacked against him. Not because he slacked in his training. Charizard would have incinerated Sparky if Richie called for an attack.
The worst part was Squirtle being counted out due to Sleep Powder. That rule has never been used before or since.
I got annoyed with how in the Unova League, aside from Cameron using Hydreigon as his “secret weapon”, having Ferrothorn against a Fire type and him forgetting his sixth Pokémon, was how much endurance his Lucario had
Even when taking so much hits from Snivy and Pikachu, he still was able to get up, not to mention him losing to a trainer that Ash never battled either
And how was his Riolu even able defeat Unfezant? That bird got done dirty. Super dirty.
@@wikiuser92 TBF, Ash’s Unfezant sucks. But still, a Flying type losing to a baby Pokemon. Pretty sad.
dont forget he sent out swanna to battle pikachu. i just cant with that league.
@@ufffkfkij And a Ferrothorn against Pignite. That kid had no right to win after making such idiotic choices.
@@wikiuser92He makes indigo league Ash look like a genius
What made Ash vs. Cameron even more offensive was that they had a competent trainer introduced as the region's Harrison or Tyson who Ash could've lost to and at least kept some dignity, in Virgil. Add to it Ash actually regressed from his previous league placements. So the entire loss was just insult upon insult.
Good thing Journeys are tying all loose ends right now
Cameron bothers me in so many ways, expecting us to believe hydreigon would obey him for starters
Yea and who puts the secret weapon first? That’s almost an oxymoron. And then lucario appears and just wrecks 3 of his Pokémon so mad
@@dragonsvideos6737 yup, hydrigon only took out 2 mons and took some solid damage, lucario swept a 3v1 match
@@blitz4779 in all fairness and oshawott that still knows tackle against a hydreigon isn’t much of a match. If ash had used leavanny or krookodile maybe this would be a different story
@@dragonsvideos6737 yeah ash wasn't using the A team
My pet theory is that Cameron's dad let him borrow his Hydreigon for the League
I’ve said it for years, and it’s my own personal head cannon, Ash vs Paul should’ve been the Sinnoh League final. Both of their arcs come full circle and the climatic Infernape vs Electavire showdown.
Tobias = worst character introduced
Although it happens more then you think where the “final” happens in the semi-final of various tournaments
BUT STILL
Ash and Paul were clearly not good enough for me, they still acted like child all the DP arc. For me, they didn't deserve to be in final yet.
Tobias in the other hand look mature, experienced and focus, things that Ash still needed to learn before he can be the very best
That would betray the nature of the anime
Ash is just a normal kid; winning the league is for chosen ones
Nobody can ever hate a Tobias. We're awesome. :)
@@tobiascichy5034
I can hate his presence in a certain anime while still not hating the person.
@@pn2294
Isn’t Ash the Chosen One? Or did the second movie lie to me?
Ash: I've literally went through four regions now, as long as it's just good, fair battles, I'm sure I can win this time!
Tobias: *I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye*
No , that's pidgey actually defeating you in your first journey in Red / Blue using Sand Attack
Words can't describe the anxiety I felt clicking this knowing there was a good chance I would hear the cursed "Good evening everybody. Good evening."
What do you want good afternoon instead? Afternoons suck
Why is that cursed?
@@therealchristian1 It's a reference to last year's April Fool's Day video.
The kalos league loss hurt so badly that the writers made him win in alola to try to make it up for the kalos loss
Alola victory was pointless, people didn't even follow that series. The best chance for Ash to win the league was kalos even the jouneys is kind of rushed and even if Ash wins it won't give the satisfaction which it would have given in kalos
It was a pity victories.Rang totally hollow, everyone knew he won just because everyone was pissed he lost the last one. They didn't even have a league for 80% of the series and thrw it together last minute just to pull this crap off.
@@AayushSaxena07 I followed the Alola series, so I was happy about his win XD
But Ash winning in Kalos would have been pretty awesome, but I guess since I was already used to see Ash losing I was fine with it, especially since at least Alan didn't come out of nowhere, like others that beat Ash in leagues XD And we saw in the Mega Evolution Specials how strong he is and how hard he trained his Pokemon especially Charizard).
But that's also why I like the Alola league, everyone that battled there was seen during the series and didn't come out of nowhere, or was introduced last minute, there were so many rivalys between Ashs Pokemon and other Pokemon (Pikachu vs TapuKoko, Ashs Lycanroc vs Gladions Lycanroc, Rowlet vs Hau's Dartrix/Decidueye, Torracat vs Incineroar) and they were all build up pretty well ^^
And I enjoyed it a lot, especially since for once they didn't skip fights in the league but actually showed all the battles, which was also really good.
The alola league win was annoying.
The first ever alola league in which ANYONE CAN ENTER.
Ash gets a super form, an ultra beast, and whatever Melmetal is.
The tournament is treated like a joke.
Tapu Koko wedges itself and zmove into the battle against Kukui.
In Journeys in reference to the league Ash goes "I entered a tournament and won." YOU ENTERED A TOURNAMENT AND WON?!?!?!? THATS IT?!?!?!?
@@Moonstriker2514
Melmetal is a Mythical Pokémon.
When it comes to Tobias, in the opening theme for that series you would see an Entei as well as Darkrai so it implies that he also had an Entei in his team of six.
He later got arrested for using Game Sharks, just like in Pokémon Clover
The Ash vs Ritchie fight was a bad loss because even though Ash still had a long way to go as a trainer, he was at a genuine disadvantage because of Team Rocket keeping him from getting to the match until the last minute. The match should have been delayed until Ash’s team could have been healed, and whether he won or lost entirely on the merits of his Pokémon, their training (or lack of) and their connection (or lack of) to him. The Team Rocket shenanigans only existed to keep Team Rocket in the episode and to handicap Ash.
Why didn’t Ash explain this? Why didn’t Ash explain why he was held up? I’d even accept losing offscreen
The manga Electric Tale if Pikachu does the battle between Ash and Richie better he still loses but there was no Team Rocket interference Ash kinda wins the battle because Charziard beats Richie’s Charziard but because Charziard didn’t listen to Ash he was going to kill Richie’s Charziard so ash recalled him and left the stadium which was a forfeit. Richie almost forfeited the match but his poke ball malfunction when he was trying to recall his Charziard. In the manga Zippo was named Charley and was a Charziard
@@TVkingOmega He didn't have time. By the time Ash got there he was offically late but Ritchie was able to convince the ref to let Ash compete anyway. Though Team Rocket were REALLY being persistent for no reason. Ash kept sending them away but they kept coming back over and over again. Though, to be fair, the anime was originally going to end with Ash winning the league but since the anime was extremely popular, they had to find a way to have Ash lose it
@@zeospark9715 This felt like an even bigger gut punch regarding how the anime was going to end. Couldn't they have still let him win and continue the series anyway?
@@iamhungey12345 Yeah trust me their mindset was extremely different back then they though if Ash wins a league, they have to end the series. A reason why Ash didn't win in Kalos even though it was a perfect time for him to win it. As seen with Sun/Moon, that wasn't the case though Ash is mainly touring the world and is just trying to have fun battling.
I know you can technically make this argument with any battle in the anime, but if Ash doesn’t meet Harrison: he doesn’t go to Hoenn -> doesn’t meet Gary’s Electivire -> doesn’t get home right as Delia and Oak go to Unova-> doesn’t meet Alexa -> and so on. You are exactly right that it was his most influential loss, and I’d go further to say it was his most influential battle period.
yup
Ash's story should have been completed in the XY&Z season. It was LITERALLY the ultimate send off for him and it was against a top-tier trainer who literally fought against legendary pokemon and Elite 4 members... Seriously, he had the girl, got the kiss, and all. All you need was a time skip with a new character and have him as guest appearances sometimes as a grown-up/ 21-24 year old (Top ranked world-wide trainer at that point) alongside Serena (Who would be a renowned world-class rank performer) who is also 21-24 years old and traveling around together, living their best life. Heck, let them have a house in Kanto with strong obvious hints of them being a official couple.. Is that so hard to write? No.
Yeah but then they can’t milk the franchise anymore
@@danyg5639 and that's the reao reason ash always loses and never grows up, so the series can go on forever.
Personally i think its more interesting when they are willing to let a character actually complete their arc and either start new or begin a new arc. (Pikachu is the mascot of the series that all the marketing is centered on so its hard to replace him because the marketing would have to start over building recognition for the new protagonists main pokemon)
Admittedly this problem affects many long running series where marketing demands the show outrun its natural lifespan and problems come up.
Personally i am down for all sorts of spinoffs, i remember their used to be one that followed ethan (male player character in Johto) and his friends and they even encountered Raiku and he had a Beedrill. (Sadly i doubt I'll ever find this series again or be able to watch it even if i could find it thanks to the million streaming services that exist now)
@@danyg5639 they can just give us a new protag like they're doing now. hopefully one I don't want to launch into the sun.
@@MsMoonDragoon yeah but it's unlikely that they'll ever be as popular as Ash was
Agreed. While I am happy with what Ash accomplished in Journey's with his battle with Leon, I still think XY and Z was the better place to end the series, with Diamond and Pearl being the next best thing, both series were well written and really showed how far Ash had come. Plus, the fact that in XY and Z he had a battle with Dianthe where his Greninja in the unperfected form nearly beat Gardivoir or at the very least seemed evenly matched, so you think the perfected form would be stronger.
What’s funny about the Cameron battle is that they didn’t even need to make a big deal about Cameron’s incompetency.
The dude’s team was stacked and it makes sense that he would’ve blown out Ash, but they just had to make him the biggest idiot out there lmao
What they should’ve done, imo, was make Cameron a two-faced trainer. Outside of battle, he’s still a bumbling idiot, but once he’s in battle, he has Red levels of focus and strategy, using well the cards he was likely dealt from his other side. This is actually a common trope in anime from what I’ve seen.
@@paperluigi6132yeah that Hydreigon should’ve swept Ash’s entire team.
Besides Cameron, which we DON'T talk about, all of Ash's losses were against more experienced and considerably older opponents, or opponents with ridiculously overpowered mons, and he still took all of them to a near defeat besides the guy using literal legends, and even then he still took two of the guy's mons while literally everyone else in the league couldn't come close to defeating even one. People sure love to use Ash as a punching bag to feel better about themselves, but virtually all of his losses- besides the one we DON'T talk about- were more impressive than most characters wins.
I gotta comment on loss against Tyson since I think you were way too easy on it though. I think everyone knows Tyson is just Harrison 2.0, to the point where if you swapped them around it would barely make a difference since they're basically the same character, but Harrison actually fulfilled his purpose extremely well, of introducing Ash to Hoenn Pokemon and inspiring him to go there, which makes up for him being introduced last minute just to make Ash lose.
Tyson doesn't even have that, he's introduced last minute to make Ash lose, does that in one of the worst battles in the anime, and the worst part is, it's a completely pointless loss, and the one that started the trend of Ash's pointless losses.
Even though Ash's loss in Kanto was terrible, unfair and completely missed the point of making Ash lose due to his own mistakes and inexperience, it made sense that he would lose in his first league, even though he still ranked ridiculously high. In Johto, he progressed to the Top 8 and as mentioned before, his loss served the story extremely well.
But Hoenn just started the trend of making Ash lose just for the sake of it. Ash didn't progress at all, he just lost at the top 8 again, which isn't helped by the fact Tyson is basically just Harrison, making it feel even more like a repeat, and he didn't learn anything or got inspired to go somewhere new or even got introduced to the Battle Frontier because of said loss, he just lost and that's it, and after that it's just three more regions of Ash losing just for the sake of it, two of those being some of the worst writing I've ever seen in anything, and the Hoenn loss started that trend, and I hate it for that.
It must've been bad because I've completely purged it from my memory. I remember everything else clear as day despite it having been a long time, especially the cool dressed up Meowth, but that battle and Tyson himself are a complete blur.
Exactly. The advanced arc upto the league was bland af and Tyson vs Ash was the epitome of that; so bad people forgot about it. The loss was utterly pointless and it was clear nobody was interested in the story anymore, least of all the creators. The Frontier arc was a bit of damage control but by that time Ash's character arc had been wiped clean. Pity, the Pokemon in the Hoenn team had wayyy more character than the damn protagonists.
The reason why Ash lost is because winning the league is pointless
If it was important, he would’ve won the Indigo League the first time
@@pn2294
No, it was because he was still inexperienced. If he had won, we would have started thinking Ash basically had plot armor. He needed to really earn his victory.
Ash also uses a completely ass team in almost all of his battles except for the one against Paul and Alain. He always has at least 1 unevolved pokemon when his opponents are clearly bringing their best teams. I still don't get how the hell Cameron managed to get Hydreigon when it literally has the highest evolution level out of all pokemon.
Agreed on Unova being the worst but I would put Sinnoh right above it since they clearly didn’t want Ash to win the league for whatever stupid reason. Hoenn would be the third from the bottom for me
Kanto was fine him to lose in, but didn’t love the Richie loss.
The issue was it wasn’t a fair fight, because Ash was kidnapped before hand. Let him explain what happened, get to the pokemon center and do a fair battle tomorrow. Which I think with balbasaur, pidgeotto and Pikachu, he’d have won.
Johto was a fair loss also. Lazily introduced character, but Blaziken was awesome and that league gave us the Gary v Ash match, which felt like the bigger win.
Hoenn felt rushed, but the opponent was strong. I believe the reason that season felt off was there was no rival and it was a little boring.
Sinnoh had the badass battle with Paul, which was the real story for that league. The Tobias thing was weird, but it was fun to watch.
Unova was just a giant middle finger to everyone. Loses to an idiot in a match where the opponent only used five pokemon. Was his worst performance.
Kalos was epic and brought me back into the anime. Sad he lost, but so many amazing battles and such a great character with Alain, it was worth it.
All said and done, I wish he won Kalos.
I didn't knew you commented here. I am watching your videos recently.
And hey, Ash actually made it to the finals in Kalos. Then, he finally won his first league in Alola.
Watch the mega evolution specials it makes sense
@@KaizoKitsune625watch the first round of masters eight tournament it doesn't make sense and Ash should have won
The thing with him not taking his best vs Tobias was that most of his best were resting after other prior battles. Which is a nice touch that they kinda stopped doing after gen4. It made the league have a bit more weight, that Ash couldn't just use his best pokemon over and over, or they would get tired. It lets other pokemon get some screentime, and that's never a bad thing.
Harrison lost because his ace was too weakened from his battle with Ash.
The only exception is Pikachu. Since the finals (quarter, semi, and actual finals) were all 6-on-6, and Pikachu never leaves Ash’s party, he was forced to compete, but at least Ash saved him for last just so he could have some extra time to rest.
I never liked Cameron and I never will after whatever they pulled during that episode. Whenever I talked about how stupid he is and how he should've been disqualified for not having the requirement of Pokemon for a full battle, I always end up with a whole paragraph and for good reason.
Then we may as well disqualify the Elite 4 for only using Teams of 4 or 5 save for rematches. Besides he was late for registration & shouldn't have been allowed to compete to begin with.
Loss vs Alain, acceptable, should have been a tie though
Loss vs Harrison justified should have been the finals though
Lossvs Tobias, hey, sometimes this happens in real life, (should have been the finals)(looking at you, 2018 NBA finals)
Loss vs Ritchie, inexperience happens
Loss vs Cameron, this loss makes no sense, battle felt like a low ladder match between 10 iron valorant players
It really speaks volumes for how forgettable the Hoenn league was that you forgot to include Tyson
Ew valorant... that was the real mistake there
@@paddykelly2851 also speaks volumes on how I didn’t notice either
Wow 10/10
@@paddykelly2851 Tyson is forgettable
Ash's Sinnoh and Kalos League losses give me PTSD to this very day... The hype around those League Arcs were so high. So seeing them get cut down in such boneheaded fashions was annoying.
But yeah, Cameron was another level of bad. I'm convinced the entire Unova League Arc was just the BW team giving us one last FU out of pure spite and frustration.
At least Alain had much more screen time compared to Tobias. Dude even got 3 or 4 specials with him as the protagonist prior to his introduction in the main series.
The fact that they had to give a guy two legendary Pokémon just to make ash loose is crazy.
I’m Reality Pikachu Would’ve Lost After The First Attack .
Ash came so close so many times, in retrospect there's so many gut wrenching losses.
I'm not going to lie, it really made me mad when he lost the Kalos League but then again I guess Brock was right all along! Water types are weak against fire types!
its weird people complain about ash loosing at type advanteges when ash has won in type disadvantages
Charizard mega X is dragon fire which is not weak to water because dragon resist water so it's neutral plus Alain Charizard had tough claws boosted thunderpunch so it was fair
@@hindubanodhruvnahi779 Man had tough claws, And SOMEHOW ALSO triggered blaze? That's some straight up hax
@@Nightxx9199 I think he triggered blaze in his base form than he gain tough claws in Charizard x form
@@hindubanodhruvnahi779 Still hax nonetheless
It is weird to feel nostalgic over the decades of us collectively clowning Ash for always somehow losing while wishing for the day he wins a league but... Yeah I do feel nostalgia for those days now that he has won one (one represented in the games anyway). Though also happy that we can call the kid a champion finally lol
My opinions from least to most offensive
6: Harrison
I admit I find Harrison to be a bit of a bland character besides his Blaziken, but overall, it was the loss that was the most influential to him overall, plus it gave him good encouragement to visit Hoenn for his next region
5: Alain
I admit Ash should’ve won Kalos imo, but Alain was far and away the best character that beat Ash in any of these leagues and his strength was established clearly in his appearances during the Mega Evolution specials and XYZ
4: Tyson
I admit I might actually prefer his character a bit more then Harrison’s personally due to him having a bit more of a personality, but Pikachu vs Meowth was a disappointing way to end his Hoenn run
3: Ritchie
Team Rocket hindering Ash and the referee eliminating Squirtle for sleeping and Charizard refusing to battle sours this one big time. Ash might’ve actually won this one if it weren’t for Team Rocket truth be told
2 and 1: Tobias and Cameron
Yeah I couldn’t decide which one I hated more. Tobias was just the deus ex machina to end all deus ex machinas. He was created just to have Ash lose with his random legendaries (way to force my fave Pokémon Darkrai into something I hate). Even if that battle was actually quite good in moments, I cannot forgive them for making this decision in a league that Ash should’ve won imo. And Cameron, the fact that Ash lost to probably the dumbest character in the entire series is just straight up insulting. Even if Unova Ash wasn’t the best, he deserved better then this. At least Kalos and Alola got his act together
Is it wrong too hope Ash faces them in Journeys and gets his wins??
Unpopular opinion: I kind of liked Ash vs tobias. It shows how ash was able to take down two legendaries and do something no one else in the league managed. idk, I also just like latios.
@@andrewshearsby8125 It would be cool. Particularly Alain
@@benjamincharlton1388 I admit the battle itself had it’s good moments, I just hate what it represents
@@Jacob004 I'm thinking mote of beating Cameron... that brat did not deserve his win
That really puts it into perspective. I always went "oh Ash lost again" at Kalos while overlooking the details despite how valid that loss was. Alain was essentially a sub-main character and I kinda wish the anime would do that more often.
On an unrelated note: What are these side character names? I always mix up Harrison and Morrison and almost thought "They made Ash lose to King Kai for the league?!" before I realized who you meant.
The reason why the Ash vs Richie fight feels so weird is because it's heavily censored in the anime. In the manga, when Ash's Charizard disobeyed him, it didn't just doze off, it went rogue and tried to KILL Richie's Pokémon, which is why Ash was disqualified.
I don't know if the manga came first, but usually the anime and manga are not even related when it comes to Pokemon. I didn't even know there was a manga for Ash as all the ones I hear about have the player character from the games so Red, Gold, etc.
@@anthonynguyen1289 It most definitely didn't. The anime came out on April 1st in 97, while the manga came out somewhere in April same year, but it doesn't mention the exact day. So chances are highly likely that it's after. Also the one for Ash is "Electric Tale of Pikachu".
No it's not. Electric Tale of Pikachu is based off the anime, not the other way around. It's sorta obvious anime!Charizard's actions were intentional if you seen more than the League anime eps...
The manga adapted from the anime not vice versa.
Manga isn't canon
Even though it took him 7 Gens in order to win a League, I like that the series had Ash progressively place higher with each series showing gradual improvement. Or at least, he never placed worse than the series before.
He placed worse in Unova.
Sinnoh: top 4
Unova: top 8
@@tristanearhart6040 Ah, well then we can add that on to the already long list of why Unova is the worst series of the show so far.
@@kevinbell5674 Unova really was a double-edged sword. The anime is probably the worst it’s ever been, but the games themselves are probably the peak of the series.
@@paperluigi6132 Uuh, the irony 😊
I go back and forth on whether Ritchie or Cameron gave the worst League loss but I always come to the same conclusion. Cameron's is one of the most insulting battles in the anime only beaten by Elesa. I don't think anyone even wanted Ash to win but we didn't want him to lose like this. Near the end of this battle was just slap after slap in the face for any Ash fan and I don't think Ritchie even came close.
Ritchie's victory was not a satisfying story event...but it makes sense. Like, it was a mirror-match...and Ash was forced to go into it with damaged Pokemon and depleted PP.
Like, we've all been there: you didn't expect a rival fight at that moment and hadn't healed in a while, so they end up sweeping you.
---
Cameron was...literally a "Screw You" to the audience.
Plus in Electric Tale (Manga version of the series, but a different telling), it was more understandable. Apparently, Ash had to recall his Charizard because he went ballistic and nearly killed Ritchie's Charizard.
Cameron (and Tobias) were more or less diablos ex machinas and screw yous, Cameron probably being more offensive.
@@AznOmega at least the Tobias loss actually payed respect to ash, atleast he lost to the most op trainer and took out 2 legendary Pokémon
That Elesa battle was an insult to both her and Ash. Ash because his “strategy” was SUPER out of character for him this far into the anime, and Elesa because she’s one of my favorite Gym Leaders, and she did not deserve to be Ash’s opponent at the state that he was in. At least the Tynamo fight was funny and cool, because “don’t judge a book by it’s cover” was the theme around it.
Bit off-topic, but it took me 7+ tries to beat Elesa when I first played White as a kid. My winning run was with Dewott and five Sandile, and it was my second or third attempt using that team.
@@paperluigi6132 Funny story about my experience with Elesa. Since this battle lives in my head rent free, when I got to her gym, I went through the entire gym with just Palpitoad. It was not the battle I wanted. It wasn't the battle this queen deserves but it's the battle that needed to happen.
I always loved the Harrison battle meeting blazing for the first time, it made it seem like hoenn was q huge upgrade in talent before we ever even went there 😊
too bad harrison is a deus ex machina.
@@lampad4549 what
The loss against Alain was annoying on a meta-level. He didn‘t COMPLETELY get put in out of nowhere, but he might as well have been. They just needed a powerful opponent to make Ash lose the league.
In the Indigo League, the anime was probably still in an experimental phase. Sleep-mechanics aside, a Pokemon that refuses to fight (Charizard) is worthless. Keep in mind that this is a huge event where people go for entertainment, kind of like wrestling.
Kanto: Very unfair to Ash. Putting aside Charizard and Team Rocket ruining everything, the whole league was a mess in general. Like really, recalling or putting to sleep counts as "unable to battle?"
Johto and Hoenn: pretty fair losses, nothing offensive
Sinnoh: You know Ash was so good that the only proper way the writers had him lose was by making him fight someone who had no previous appearances, no background, with action replay
Unova: I'm not even gonna bother talking about this. Just WHY?
Kalos: Very unclimactic and dissapointing. Our hopes and dreams shattered.
League: "it's sleeping, it's unable to battle"
Me in game: winning despite m last Pokemon got finch at the edge of fainting
To be fair, sleep in Gen 1 kicks massive ass, since you don't get to act the turn you wake up. This means that if the opponent is faster, they can just put you to sleep again.
@@saltyralts would be really funny if the anime had gen 1 mechanics lol. Imagine someone abusing the badge boost glitch
@@johnapple6646 badge boost glitch isn't that crazy good.
I remember being pretty salty at Ash's loss at Kalos league, but it later contributed to the story. When Alain discovered how much he contributed for Team Flare's triumph, he was crushed by grief, thinking if his fighting had any point. Ash, despite his horrible situation, never gave up and kept on fighting even helping Alain recover his determination. It ties back into older themes of the anime that titles don't make you a master and that even somebody like Alain can still improve.
I'd still argue that Ash's defeat on the Johto league was the least harmful, as one of the main reasons Harrison lost was because his strongest pokémon hadn't recovered from the previous fight in time.
As someone who watched the original series when I was a kid, I kind of appreciate the narrative of the first two leagues. The League was meant to be this massive global event where experts from around the world come to determine who's the best of the best. Ash was an inexperienced rookie punching above his weight class, but he got far on sheer ingenuity and scrappiness, but the inexperience was ultimately what caused his downfall. Even Gary, the rival seen as unbeatable, lost to some nobody to put the competition in perspective. Next time around in Johto, both of them have really come into their own as trainers and have more powerful Pokemon and experience under their belts, resulting in the most epic and personal back and forth battle in the show. Just a theory, but Ash would have gone on to win the Silver league, but they decided Gen 2 wasn't going to be the last after all and they had to promote the new season.
Also Harrison ONLY lost his next round due to blaziken being worn out. I guarantee you Ash's optimal team of Pikachu Charizard Heracross Snorlax Bulbasaur and maybe Squirtle would've beaten Jon Dickson
We all forget that Ash Charizard had great and intense battle with Gary taking his three strong Pokemon alone because of this Charizard was not 100% against Harrison Blaziken
Yes and no, because Ash could have even gotten further in the Indigo League if it weren't for Team Rocket's interference. Like, if they were going to do a mirror-match then at least have Ash at his best... to drive the point that he is in fact inexperienced and in over his head.
And, inversely, a win in the Silver League is a yes-and-no. I actually think it would be a better test if Ash won the Silver League and thus elected to enter the Hoenn League with a new team. That said, Ash did rely quite a bit on Charizard, IIRC. Which Pratik mentions is a significant part of why Ash's Charizard lost against Harrison's Blaziken. Presumably this means the rest of Ash's team was under-leveled comparatively...so with that considered his loss is understandable.
Yes and no, because Ash could have even gotten further in the Indigo League if it weren't for Team Rocket's interference. Like, if they were going to do a mirror-match then at least have Ash at his best... to drive the point that he is in fact inexperienced and in over his head.
And, inversely, a win in the Silver League is a yes-and-no. I actually think it would be a better test if Ash won the Silver League and thus elected to enter the Hoenn League with a new team. That said, Ash did rely quite a bit on Charizard, IIRC. Which Pratik mentions is a significant part of why Ash's Charizard lost against Harrison's Blaziken. Presumably this means the rest of Ash's team was under-leveled comparatively...so with that considered his loss is understandable.
@@onijester56 Charizard is Ace Pokemon of Ash he had one of best battle in Anime against Gary took three Pokemon alone but was not 100% against Harrison Blaziken still give best Blaziken won but damage was so high that Harrison couldn't use his Blaziken in next round so it would be interesting to see 100% Charizard against 100% Blaziken I think Charizard would have deafted Blaziken. I still remember how sad I got seeing Charizard and Ash loose to Harrison Blaziken I would definitely like to see Ash Charizard and Harrison Blaziken rematch
Ash's loss to Alain will always be the worst to me, just because it was the League where you felt like he had the chance to go all the way. Tobias was an absolutely garbage plot device but he was introduced early enough in the Sinnoh League to know Ash wasn't gonna go all the way. Cameron was an absolutely braindead moron but Ash was at his worst in Unova so he had no chance of winning that League anyway.
Alain? That was what seemed like Ash's moment. All the bonding with his Greninja, all the teases against Alain and even Diantha previously, the absolutely cock tease of that episode title...it felt like it was Ash's time. Until it wasn't.
lol yeah, he was WINNING agaisnt the champion Diantha. That's how good Ash was on that league
that league def should've been his W , the latter win feels more like an empty apology than the cap of a more perfect series , imo
I swear when we arrived at Tyson I spoke the loudest "Who?" in my entire life.
And I watched the entire anime since it started airing here in Italy.
Lol I think the only thing people remember about him is his puss in boots inspired meowth
He's a pretty bland character, IMO.
"Ash gambles on sending Charizard to fight Zippo."
My brother in Arceus _you have a Kingler._
I think that makes sense from a narrative perspective, it was a character flaw. Ash choosing Charizard was a product of his overconfidence, it's the same reason why he barely trained for the League at all despite having several weeks to prepare for it. He thought that being a scrappy underdog was all that was necessary to allow him to win.
I also don’t feel so bad about Ash’s loss to Harrison since, like you were saying, the real thematic and emotional payoff comes from the fight with Gary. It’s like… some victories are worth more than an actual trophy, y’know? Something like that.
But then losing to a guy who didn’t even know he could bring six Pokémon is just embarrassing…
The losses in Hoenn and Sinnoh didn’t hit me as hard simply because the rest of the League made up for it. The Sinnoh League overall was fantastic, my personal favorite. Great battles all around, even when Paul basically wrecks Barry. In Hoenn I really enjoyed Ash’s full battle against Katie and even though I hated how the Morrison fight started, Metang vs Glalie was great as well.
I forgive Kanto as the show was new and even though Kalos was devastating, the League itself was still beautiful so I can get over it. Unova is just crap though. Not even just talking about how dumb Cameron as a trainer was, the league itself sucked. It was only five episodes long (compared to the usual 6+) when you take out the ridiculous Axew episode that should have never been made in the middle of the most important arc of the series. The battles themselves were lame too. Trip was supposed to be Ash’s main rival this series and he loses in the first round in a 1-on-1…the hell!? And Bianca and Cameron’s battle was horrible as well. Two idiots battling in that one. Half of the fight was just Bianca using Iron Defense and dodging. TBH, early Unova started off great, but after the Rocket vs Plasma episodes got canceled the writers really just went all over the place.
I haven't watch the anime since Johto. But from what I heard, they say the reason the later halve of Unova anime was crap was because they had an earthquake and the ones that would've been part of the later halve were destroyed and had to rewrite from scratch and make up an different story. If so, that is sad.
@@jaretco6423 You heard correct. Early on in Unova there was supposed to be a two part episode called Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma that would have featured Giovanni arriving in the Unova region to conduct his plan of using a special meteorite to conquer Unova but Team Plasma wanted it as well. The earthquake in 2011 happened less than a week before the first episode was suppose to air and the episodes were pulled since they featured destruction of buildings.
Once the episodes were pulled the anime just literally lost the plot. Team Plasma wouldn't even be introduced into the anime for another two years after these episodes were canceled and their entire arc was condensed into 14 episodes instead of series wide like Teams Aqua, Magma, and Galactic got.. We did get some cool Team Rocket episodes in return as well as a few tournaments arcs, but we also got A LOT of bad fillers as well.
@@HoennMaster They should have just try to come up with a good plot without reminding the devastating event. Granted that's a nice decision for their part but that still doesn't excuse why BW anime is dogcrap. It's just the writers incompetence and lack of imagination.
@@jaretco6423 I think it was part of that, and some plot points was way too close to home on being real, and dark. I think it had an Earthquake involved in the plot as well, along with Castelia City being destroyed from what I heard. And that one other guy who Jessie, James, and Meowth was working with earlier in that season would have ended up killed on screen or something (wouldn't be the first time, since Hunter J happened).
Katie was awesome. It's cool that they emphasised that not all off Ash's opponents are going to be personal friends, rivals or deus ex machina's who pull Legendary Pokemon out of their asses. Some of them are just random people. Katie was clearly a very competent trainer and in what little screen time she had, we get a good sense of her personality. She loves playing mind games with her opponents, like when she told Misdreavus to charge straight into an Ice Beam. Unless her Misdreavus is a masochist, that was a dick move but I bet even Cynthia would be caught off guard by that strategy. However, when an opponent flips the script and catch her off guard, Katie gets flustered and loses focus, like when she ordered Supersonic on an already confused Corphish who just defeated her Golduck "with a friendly handshake".
This dude is spitting straight facts. I myself was really devastated by Ash's loss against Alain and even though XY and XYZ are my favorite seasons in the entirety of the Pokemon anime, things like Ash spamming cut on his greninja was underwhelming and disappointing. BTW, I absolutely love the music included in this video. Thanks for the banger jams and banger takes!
If greninja had night slash he could have landed some crits which could have made a big difference
@@eljordinio7647 Very true. He most likely uses cut instead because his loss was already determined since the beginning... Really tragic
@@thesuccinsuccess idk what the writers were thinking. To make things worse about this loss they hyped up ash winning so darn much. And what do they do? Make him lose for literally no good excuse.
Yeah Alain had more experience and was extremely tough to beat with all the feats he had under his belt, but there is absolutely no denying ash should have won here
@@eljordinio7647 From what I've read even the people who worked on the show were upset about Ash losing the Kalos League. It was probably the fault of some idiot executive(s) who got cold feet at the last minute.
@@oyeh8908 that executive probs should have been fired for that little stunt. They make ash THAT good in Kalos, winning should have been a must
0:42 I love how Ash has a literal L on his hat. Very fitting :D
I still find the japanese version of Satoshi vs Alain to be one of the best. The VA, the animation, the choreo was all really cool and what I've been looking for in battles.
Yeah but it was really anti-climax, all others pokémon lose in like 2 minutes to concentrate on M-Charizard and Ash-greninja after a season already full of Ash-greninja's battles
I mean xy was the best series till now
The Charziard vs Blaziken fight is still one of my favorites of all time. I saw it as a kid and immediately picked Torchic when I got Ruby.
0:56 Oh boy, that final... Even after six years I'm still mad like a beast
I'm very disappointed when Ash lost to Alain in kalos finals but I have to agree that Ash vs Alain is one of the best animated and intense battle ever in Pokémon anime history
Sinnoh has to easily be in the top 3 of strongest teams for Ash.
1:53 I think this moment is the ancestor of the move soak
Secretly huge brained by Ash if true lol
The thing that annoyed me a lot on Ash previous regions leagues is to still have a lot of his Pokemons unevolved IN THEIR 1ST PHASE.... on the Alola games Rowlet became my favorite Pokemon because Decidueye looked so badass, but in the series Ash's Rowlet became so annoying with the Everstone bullshit and still defeating with that shenanigan good pokemons on the Alolan league. Almost his entire Unova party were first phase pokemons and lets not forget that he also tried to fight Tobias with a Gible...
Tobias was by far the worst asspull, I think the writers realised how OP Ash’s team was by the end of Sinnoh, especially since he had access to all his previous gen Pokémon
Putting a team of legendaries that one-shots his pokemon after his best battle ever is the most hilarious thing in this anime to me
I've haven't watched an episode of pokemon since that series defining heart breaking loss to Alan
What's ironic is that the anime would have Iris become Unova Champion in Journeys. If the anime actually built up Iris in Best Wishes as aspiring for that goal and had her be the one to beat Ash before going on to win it might've been an improvement over Cameron taking him down.
That sounds like a really great idea
This is why I will never like Iris as a character. It's bad enough that she's just a one dimensional whiny brat through and through in BW. But to straight up skip that is supposed to be an integral part of her character arc and only tell her progress through exposition that she's champion already. There lies a flawed storytelling strategy: Telling, not showing. It seemed that the writers thought "People hate Iris? Well let's bring her back as a champion and maybe people will like her now. Oh and just leave her development off screen we're too busy with giving Ash all the glory and are too lazy to have time for other characters."
"it's bullshit that they had a guy who's team was mostly legendaries"
i mean at least 2 of the frontier brains were like that and i'm pretty sure one of them was basically the wall that ash hit in the battle frontier.
When i watched the ending of indigo league, i felt so sorry for Ash. One of the best moments cuz all that charizard moments had to culminate somewhere and this was the worst spot. It hurt me cuz i watched Pokemon s1 after school. It was a blast and that's why the ending is one of the saddest moments in all anime. The motto of pokemon was always, "I wanna be the very best like no one ever was." And seeing him accepting his failure killed me but gave him more layers as a protagonist. And that's why the moment where charizard listens to Ash finally in orange islands made it so sweet n satisfying to watch
Gary having 10 badges when there were only 8 is still the biggest felx in the whole pokemon anime
The Kalos loss broke my hope after so many years. That was just bulls*it. Ash was on topof his game in lore & show writing AND STILL they sc***ed him over.
is screwed a swear word?
@@InvaltidWord It can be used as one. I'm just playing it safe in the comment section for potential admin warnings
Alain mastered his region and that regions gimmick, testing his Mega against every Mega in the region. Ash does that in the next one with 10 million volts against gaurdian of Alola. they even really pointed that out, calling it Ash's final test against the ultimate Z move.
I admit, I don't dip my toes into the Pokemon fandom that often, so I don't know the general consensus on most things the anime did.
But this video does make me glad that someone other than me was supremely pissed off at the way the Unova League ended.
2:44 It’s kinda funny to here these words especially after seeing Alan get disrespected by Leon and his Charizard by like one move from him.
Ritchie: It wasn't a fair fight, and the weird one-off rules about disqualifications don't help.
Harrison: Charizard kind of loses anti-climatically, and why did Ash use Noctowl? Still, not bad.
Tyson: Ash was up against a team of fully evolved mons (except for Meowth). It's surprising he did as well as he did.
Tobias: As great as it is that Ash was the only one to defeat two of Tobias' Pokemon, Tobias was there just to make Ash lose.
Cameron: The ultimate insult and slap in the face, it's not even a joke.
Alain: Really feels like Ash was meant to win, then they decided at the last minute he shouldn't.
I'd mostly agree, but Alain deserved the win overall. Especially if you see how much he went through with Charizard.
@@Shay96 Yes, and no. Because he still lost with said Charizard, and never truly got it to redeem itself with rematches to who it lost against. So there's no true indicator if he went through enough. Like for all we know, Malva could have been certainly weaker than Siebold.
Also may I remind you that Ash almost won against the champions Mega Pokemon, if not for the typical cliché of "you got knocked out, cause your body couldn't handle that power you haven't mastered yet."
I wish they never made that March of the Exeggutor Squad episode 😪
I am a huge believer that Ash's loss at the Kalos league was a last minute decision, they had been writing Ash to win, let me explain.
Ash had been trying to perfect Ash-Greninja (Btw Hero Greninja is such a great name you used) and the first time he battled Alain, he lost because he hadn't perfected the form yet. Ash has never NOT defeated his rival atleast once in a series but Alain broke that rule by being the only rival Ash did not defeat directly (He did beat Leon who one shot Alain so I guess Pikachu > Mega Charizard X and therefore Pikachu>Ash-Greninja, okay I guess. But this story narrative is a huge reason why Ash seemed to be being written to win.
The qualification filler episode: There is a small filler episode in XYZ where Ash battles a trainer who failed to get all 8 gym badges before the league, the guy lost to Ash and begged Ash saying "Please, you have to win, for everyone that couldn't make it". They would not have done this if Ash was not originally planned to win.
The Team flare arc: The team flare arc is one of the greatest arcs in the series, great character development, heartfelt moments, badass moments, chacter arcs, the whole shebang. However the problem with this arc is how sudden it happened. The league ends with Ash losing to Alain and immediately after Team Flare attacks, not even getting the chance to let sink in the amount of bullshit that happened, so much that the anger of Ash losing the league somewhat overshadowed the start of the team flare arc. It was like they just wanted the league out of the way so they could get started with the team flare arc so they could finish up for the sun and moon anime.
the fact that greninja won against sceptile and then lost against charizard was a big part of why it hurt so much
To be fair, that sounds similar to Charizard winning against Blastoise and then losing against Blaziken
Normally with anime lists/discussions like this there’s somewhere I tend to have a difference of opinion, but jeez I actually agree with everything here. I do wanna comment on Ash Vs Harrison as that probably had the most intense climax possibly tied with Ash Vs Tobias because you truly didn’t know if Blaziken or Charizard Would win. Harrison had the skill and a never before seen Pokémon. And to this day the only other character to do something like that is Gary. No other trainer defeated Ash at a league with a new Pokémon after that (aside from Gary after the battle frontier with Electivire in pallet town). It would be cool to see Ash battle a gen 9 Pokémon in the Masters 8 of Journeys.
Ash vs Tobias should have had Tobias use something from Unova like Zoroark or Reshiram/Zekrom for his 3rd Pokemon just to show how outclassed everyone at the tournament was. Even Cynthia should have been shown losing to Tobias.
@@bookmew1081 Reshiram/Zekrom would’ve been a no-go, not just due to them being box legendaries, but also because they were “sleeping” at the time. Maybe one of the Swords of Justice would’ve been enough, or one of the weather genies.
@@paperluigi6132 Zekrom wasn't sleeping & there were more of them than just 1 in the anime. BW Episode 1 Zekrom & Movies Zekrom were separate. Likewise there were 3 Different Darkrai in the Gen 4 Anime. Movie 10 Darkrai, Tobias Darkrai, & the Wild Darkrai of New Moon Island. Reshiram & Zekrom were among the few confirmed Gen 5 Pokemon at the time so really I don't see why being a Box Legend would have made either of them a no-go.
Did Ash lose every Pokemon league except Alola?
Yes unless you count the Orange League
@@JPRPokeTrainer98 dang the writers really don't want to see Ash win lol 😂
Alola was barely a league imo. Battle royale qualifiers. 1v1 till quarter-finals? 2v2 semi and just a 3v3 final? come on. Indigo league had 3v3 in like the round of 64 or round of 32.
They could have done so much better with rounding off the other guys team as well. Shaymin join the green girl, magearna joins Lillie along with eevee. Though that might be taking it a bit too far
@@kartiksaraf4676 The worst part is that excluding the exhibition match with Kukui the competition Ash won is pretty weak. I mean you wouldn't expect to take a league seriously when there are literally no requirements and as a result, jessie and james (who are like the dumbest adults ever) and ash's friends (who most of the time have little to no battle aptitude) are in the top 16 qualifiers. The only people who can be an adversary are Illima (who is a kalos league competitor implying he's worth a trainer with 8 badges), your boi Guzma, Kiawe to some extent, and Gladion.
@@jedidude6358 yea exactly. As the final episodes of the leagues continued, I started to realize that there isn't going to be many good battles in the league. Kinda put a damper on what was otherwise a really strong anime with great story arcs and character progression for Ash's partners
I love that we know that Tobias didn’t beat Cynthia (or else he’d be champion). Makes me feel less bad for losing to her 5 times
Maybe Tobias lost to Aaron before he could get to Cynthia
I'll never get over the tobias battle. He was just put there to make sure ash lost and then the writers act like tobias never existed. Hasn't been mentioned since and he's not even in the masters 8
He should've taken Alain's place in the Masters 8
In defense of the Pikachu KOing onix with thunderbolt, comparing season one Pokémon battles to the XY anime is kind of disingenuous. The first season wasn’t really about the battles, It was about the weird Hijinx that could happen in that world
The struggle with Ash's losses for many comes from the stigma of him losing in the Kanto league many moons ago.
The reason why Ash's losses are bad is because we see him go through trials and adversity with his pokemon along his journey, to struggle through many hardships and challenges and loses along the way. All to come up short when it means the most to push the product forward, not the character. Pokemon would have been better served having generational protagonists from the begining imho.
I always hated that Ash had to go through all those tough gym battles (sometimes some of them took episodes to finish, or Ash had to fight them another time), only to be stomped in the most stupidest ways possible come the champion leagues
Honestly my favorite CZcamsr to watch while playing Pokémon
yo brodie :3 yo video got suggested to me. Ur intro brought me so much nostalgia gotta sub
What bothers me the most about Ash vs Tobias is that we didn't got Charizard vs Latios, if the writers are going to pull a Deus Ex Action Replay they could at least give us that
The Alola League win was so bittersweet. It was a good win for the specific series, but because of that win we’ll be forever robbed of a league win that highlights Ash’s journey as a whole across all series.
Ironic how more acceptable the loss were, the most painful they were.
Love your videos this one is my favorite well said
I was never bothered by the outcome of XYZ. I had a feeling Ash was going to lose the match, just cause it's Ash. I also felt the battle was disappointing as some parts of it seem too basic or unbelievable. Like Alain owning a Weavile, the flying Pokemon tying, and Pikachu taking out too many Pokemon on its own. The Charizard Greninja battles was the best part of the whole thing.
That's because the whole Mega Charizard X versus Ash Greninja battle was what they were mainly building up to for that fight. But I personally think that Alain's Charizard being able to shrug off a super effective thunderbolt from Ash's Pikachu near the end of it really put into perspective just how much stronger Alain was than Ash at that time
@@matthewkuscienko4616 Alain's Charizard could have taken out most of Ash's team. It has fire, dragon, steel, and electric-type moves. A bit happy they didn't do that.
A hc going around back then was most of alains team was given to him by lysandre so he could compete since he's always had charizard and the only other mon we ever saw him own was a metang
@@matthewkuscienko4616 Actually, yes, but no. You see, the problem is that you can see it doesn't shrug the Thunderbolt off at the end of the first episode of their final battle, and ends up down on its knee. But then in the recap at the beginning of the next episode, just shows Charizard standing up no problem. So, in a way, they kind of retconned Charizard into winning. And it's not like Alain's Charizard is THAT strong, as it's seen losing in the specials too. It's strong, but not as much as all that as people are led to believe.
@@byronlyons3548 i mean shes seen loosing to, An elite 4 member, Mega Rayquaza and primal groudon
She's tied once with stevens Metagross and won 12 times
So 3 losses, 1 tie, 12 wins(maybe 14 if you count the tease battles at the end of acts III/IV)
Honestly most of Ash's league rivals weren't even characters, their sole purpose was to prevent Ash from winning and then never be seen or heard from again outside the region they debut in, essentially making them plot devices.
Alain is the only league rival that was actually an actual character imo and is the only one that'll likely return in future regions or episodes.
I like how the series basically tells people that no matter how hard you try your dreams will never come true.
That loss to tobias was such a slap in the face by the writers like really? His first semifinal appearance and it’s against a dude with legendary Pokémon, the kalos one disappointed me also since the Japanese version leaked that he would win but it was a helluva match but sooooooo painful
Alain really should’ve lost. Tbh, this felt like Ash’s first finals and felt like his 19 year arc was gonna be fulfilled. Like I would’ve expected him to hit us with Greninja, Charizard(maybe even a Mega Charizard Y which could’ve matched up with a 2nd mega Alain was hiding) Infernape, Sceptile, Pikachu, then perhaps another Kalos Pokémon, probably Goodra.
Like think about, Ash could have brought in Infernape to completely counter Bisharp, neutralizing the 2nd/3rd best Pokémon with Ash’s arguably weakest Pokémon in the squad. You could have Charizard draw with the other mega. Leaving Goodra to rain dance until Charizard finish him. Then use Greninja and use the rain dance’s boost as justification for him getting the dub.
"Exclusively uses Mythical and Legendary pokémon"
Why not just say Legendary pokémon seeing as Mythical pokémon are still Legendary? 🤔
Keep it up on your work and this video and channel
9:39
I was wondering why this picture made me so mad and then my brain put it all together.
There's at least six set of matching types: two fighting, two grass, two ground and
two water types he was asking to get destroyed constantly not even from gameplay stance.