Daly Arms "Tom Thumb" - A Tiny Ring-Trigger Revolver
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
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The "Tom Thumb" is a tiny .22 rimfire revolver made in Belgium by an unknown shop and imported into the US to be sold by the Daly Arms Company of New York. These are antique guns, probably made in the 1870s or 1880s, chambered for the original black powder .22 rimfire cartridge. There are other similarly sized guns (like the Colt New Line rimfire revolvers), the the use of a ring trigger here is quite unusual. The ring appears to be too small to actually use, and in seeming acknowledge of this, the front face of the ring is textured for grip. Why these revolver didn't use the much more practical sheath trigger is a mystery...
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Okay that thumbnail is just... Wow.
Comically small revolver.
You don't get clickbait on Forgotten Weapons, when the gun looks tiny in the thumbnail, it is a TINY gun for real.
It's to scale actually 😅
It’s a tom thumbnail
Nice.
Hans Moleman: "I need the tiniest revolver you have. No, that's too tiny."
Who the hell needs AI? You just created a new Simpsons scene in my brain!
I think the purpose of the ring is to move the trigger farther forward to make it more comfortable to shoot. Looks nicer than just having an awkward looking forward trigger.
My thought exactly, I think the ring structure strengthens the trigger against deformation also
Ah, that makes a lot of sense.
YES. I came to write that exact idea - especially since it is double action
Maybe, but you could cut away the back part of the ring and it would still work the same. My guess is that the ring was just to reduce the likelihood of snagging the trigger on things. A ring is less snag prone than a horn or hook shape.
@@dwaneanderson8039 All true. The more I think about it, the more clever and subtle a solution it seems to be. Just solves a bunch of little problems.
These tiny guns are alawys fun to look at.
I don't know why exactly, but tiny guns have fascinated me ever since I got a tiny cap gun when I was a kid. The Browning museum actually has a collection of very finely made, functional miniature guns, often made by gunsmiths as a personal project to show off skill and craftsmanship.
It's very good to see the older auction house format somewhat return.
Always more interesting to see the forgotten oddballs out of people's estates.
I'm not into guns, but these videos are very entertaining. all forms of them. that said, I'd most likely collect guns from the oddball video collection.
Baby's 1st Revolver ♥️
Gun safety should be inculcated in the crib.
@@rogerborg comes with a matching set of little holsters and hat for Mama's Little Gunslinger 👶🤠
Just how small WAS Tom’s Thumb??!
Tom Thumb was 3ft 4 in tall so......very tiny Itty bitty
fun sized?
tiny revolver on forgotten weapons feels like coming home
0:44 You versus the gun she tells you not to worry about
I hope the tom thumb has a great personality and/or is really funny
I have been informed that this is a perfectly normal sized revolver and that the bigger ones really hurt.
Furthermore it's about how well you can shoot it, not the actual size of the revolver...
The literal pocket revolver. That tiny revolver is so adorable.
It's the Kolibri's greatest rival!
My money is on marketing. Somebody thought the ring trigger would attach this revolver to the newfangled manual repeaters I people’s minds. Same reason you find fixed “dive” bezels on cheap watches.
Or its supposed the clip on your backpack 😂
This is basically what I landed on as well. I think the ring having the nicest bit of finish work in the knurling might support this. Draw the attention to the most prominent feature.
@@Hyper_Fox06I had considered this possibility. Maybe put it on your pocket watch chain! 😂
@@doc_sav oh yeah that's more period appropriate 😂
Part of me wonders if it’s to make it look like a miniature version of a full size gun, just for aesthetic reasons. If it wasn’t for the ring trigger, the actual trigger would be ahead of the cylinder and might look awkward.
The contrast between the Tom Thumb and the rack of machine guns behind is comical.
That's the first thing I saw, too.
The juxtaposition of a deadly killing machine and a machine gun on the rack is quite something
I'm guessing he filmed this the same day he also filmed the aircraft Maxim gun.
One gun that's almost too small to see on the table, and one that's so big it barely fits on the table ;)
My theory was this was made strictly for pocket carry in mind, and the ring trigger design prevents getting snagged on the person's clothing when drawing. They probably did this to eliminate a trigger guard to maximize the concealment in one's pocket and keep a low profile as much as possible.
I scrolled through to see if someone said this before I did. Agreed, who knows if that design made a difference, but the rationale makes sense
I feel like the pointed tail on the end of the ring would face the other way if that were the case.
A business friend of mine once told me, "Americans will buy anything if it's priced right" this is a perfect example of that. But in all seriousness, that kinda gives me the impression this was for young shooters with everything being so small. It would probably fit a 10 to 12 year old well.
Surely you don't give a revolver to a child! A child's gun must be big and serious-looking. Guns that look like toys are asking for a tragedy.
@@MartinWillett Well kids in the old days realised that if you shoot your eye out, you'll be a cyclops.
1900 kids also had real working steam engines as toys, you would fill a tray with fuel tablets fill the water and light it up, when water is steaming you would poke steam valve open and watch as your steam engine works like tractor sized does. If you lost a finger just pick your nose with other and don't loose more.
There are plenty of modern kids that are aware of firearms dangers and can safely use their 556;ses. I know few older gents that started hunting for food as young as 7. Daddy gave them a little 20cal shotgun, pack of ammo and told to go hunt for birds, and be home before sunset.
Or maybe a lady
I had considered this too. I wish I understood more about recreational shooting in the US during this era. Indoor shooting ranges were popular in Europe up to this time, but I haven't read much about them here in the US. The reason I was thinking about that is because I was wondering _why_ you'd give a child this gun. Usually it would be so they could learn to shoot, because that was a necessary part of life. However, for practical use a rifle makes a lot more sense. Maybe these would be for city kids, or, if indoor sport shooting was popular, perhaps for a father and son to go to the range together. There is a surprising amount to wonder about with this little oddball.
@@MartinWillett Are you a moron or just a troll? Nobody with even one functioning brain cell is going to hand a kid a loaded gun and say, go outside and play. And if you go shooting anywhere other than a proper gun range with proper supervision and safety equipment, you're a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near kids.
The dragoon didn't want to be in the video but was dragooned into it.
Hmmm... Might have worked slightly better if you had said "The Walker didn't want to be in the video but was Dragooned into it", but maybe that's just me. Comedy is subjective, after all.
I have found that a lot of my 100+ year-old Belgian ladies' purse pistols have a serial (?) number under the grips. Perhaps the ring-trigger is to fit ladies' dainty fingers ?
I had the captions on, and they covered the entire revolver.
Holy crow! NAAs are probably slightly smaller, but that is close.
Oh, you found Bilbao Baggins's othe sidearm
"The Precious!!" 😅
Sting II
Perhaps the ring was used as method to attach a chain for a vest pocket, making it easy to access, I know there many items made for vest pockets as tools and decoration.
I've always been a fan of mouse guns and cheap guns. I just find them neat. I've really been thinking of starting a mouse gun and Saturday night special collection.
It's a very cool, very affordable (in most cases) Hobby... Can't go wrong with that!....
That's an interesting idea for a collection
They ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole.
You must!
All the other guns you mentioned are single action, for the range of motion needed for double action the circle makes sense.
Omg thank you so much for uploading this! I actually have one of these that was my great grandfather’s and I was never able to find much information about what it was online. I even thought about emailing you about it a few years ago.
And sometimes it is just run of the mill AK or AR and Ian just feels like talking about some totally not forgotten. And we are not complaining!
I think the ring was simply a way to get the trigger far enough forward to be operable.
At that size and with the small ring trigger was it perhaps originally marketed to the ladies?
Or to kids honestly
@@outerjohnI agree. Ring for middle finger, trigger finger on checkered portion at the front. Two fingered operation for child’s hand. Teach your child to shoot!
A quintessential Forgotten Weapons subject! I wonder if the ring shape was to provide leverage to pull the hammer back and rotate the cylinder.
I thought the thumbnail image was a joke.
The energy of casually pulling out a Dragoon to use as a scale reference.
One thing I come up with off the top of my head for the ring trigger is that it was marketed toward women as a handbag gun. Ladies usually wore gloves for an evening out, and a ring trigger would be less likely to have a gloved finger slip off it whilst operating a double action in the event of use.
I could actually see how having a ring trigger could help avoid snagging/accidental discharge while digging it out of your pocket. Being a double action its gonna need something more beefy on the finger anyway.
My dad used to have two firearms in his shop safe in London, when I was a kid. No ammo that I ever saw. One was, I think, a five shot double-action, break-open, revolver with an octagonal , or squared-off barrel - I assumed, on no real evidence, that it was a Webley, since war souvenirs would have been around, esp from the ex-servicemen from both World Wars that worked there. The other was a tiny, bare-coloured metal, single-action revolver much like the Tom Thumb. Break-open, with a sheath trigger (possibly a 7-round cylinder, too) , it had a longish barrel for the size and was chambered for something that looked like a .22 round - which I'd used in converted war surplus rifles at school. I've no idea about their history and by the time the shop closed, I'd left home and never had a chance to explore their provenance, or look at them again more critically. Keep up the good work...
OMG that lil guy is awesome. As un-manly as they are, mouse guns always capture my heart. Would've loved to see it side by side with something tiny from NAA. Or the famous Kolibri.
I love all of Ian’s videos, but ones like these are some of my favorites. Very weird, esoteric old firearms that have little to no written documentation about the weapon itself or the designers, truly forgotten.
Man I love these types of guns.
I had a good laugh when the dragoon was put into the picture. I was like awww mama and baby
I really love that *TOM THUMB* inscription on the top of barrel
This was very interesting to learn something about a firearm as bizarre as the Tom Thumb. It appears the Kolibri found some seriously stiff competition in terms of small-size guns.
0:50
You vs the guy she told you not to worry about.
Its a practical solution to an inherent problem! If this gun had a traditional, sheath style trigger then it would be too close to the handle, making it awkward to pull. There needs to be some distance inbetween the trigger and the handle in order for your finger to have enough leverage to pull the trigger. The gun is basically held between the web of the thumb and the trigger finger, with the rest of the fingers hanging loose. The distance between the front of the trigger ring to the back of the thumb is needed to get enough purchase on the gun whilst your trigger finger has enough range of motion to be able to mechanically actuate the trigger. If the trigger on this gun was a regular trigger in the normal position then the average sized male hand wouldn't be able to operate this gun.
Another Belgium Velo-Dog revolver. I have one with a folding trigger in .32 S&W / .320 Colt. woks a treat with B.P. loads.
I was literally playing around with my NAA mini 22lr revolver and this came up it's crazy when things like that happen
I think the trigger design is just a neat to keep the triggers length of pull comfy, so you don't over squeeze the firearm in your hand unergonomically.
That is an interesting little itty bitty peashooter! I no longer own it but I used to have an Iver-Johnson Defender pocket pistol of similar size factor as the two guns you showed us in this video, but oh so tiny! It was of rough appearance but did actually clock okay and, after cleaning much gunk from its tiny mechanism, I test fired it with .22 Short cartridges. Worked okay but that one-time loading of the cylinder was the limit of my risk taking with it. I think I paid maybe $20 for it back in the mid-1980's at a gun show in Sierra Vista, Arizona. Sold my small collection of pre-1900 cheap pocket revolvers about 15 years ago, put the money into more modern firearms.
I'm guessing the ring trigger was chosen as the only practical (and _probably_ reasonably safe) way to put a double action trigger on a pocket revolver that was this small. Spur triggers and folding triggers are pretty much limited to single actions, and the hammer has to be cocked to put the trigger into firing position. This setup allows a the revolver to be double action, and the ring trigger makes the trigger reach long enough to fit a human hand, and (combined with the weight of the DA trigger pull) its rounded shape is probably not prone to snagging on things.
Excellent, thanks for sharing 🎉
Thank you for different Ian. Very cool.
Incidentally, thank you for that quick explanation of sheath triggers.
Thanks Ian
I think the “ring” was simply a way to have a relatively natural trigger pull without a trigger guard. A regular style trigger would likely get bent or caught in a pocket so shaping it in such a way it prevents snags and makes it stronger than just an unprotected trigger dangling out would…
I love your tapestry! 😍
That ring trigger makes me think someone wanted you to tie your keys to it, so you never leave home without this itty bitty thing.
Nice vid 🙂 That Dragoon reminds me, I just bought a Ruger Old Army and I can't fire it, because my local outdoor range is closed (they are installing awnings and doing other maintenance. Thanks, guys, that's why I purchase range permits).
Stainless steel, unfired condition, over 20 years old. I'm going crazy wanting to pull the trigger on that thing.
I believe Im correct when I say I can see and feel Gun Jesus' excitment about weird funky guns like this. Mr Ian, if you like this sorta stuff, keep it coming, cause I like it too. Your enthusiasm gives it an unique joy. Jolly Good !
What happens when you accidentally put your revolver in the washing machine.
Why doesn't this have tens of thousands of likes
It's a tiny Gasser! Or, well, something in that family, as I believe the design came from Belgium. The lack of a top strap, the proportionally large cylinder, that intricate and very slim joint area between the barrel and frame, and even that long flat spring on the right side that's part of the hammer rebound system, though it appears to be purely decorative here (making the resemblance that much more intentional).
I think I know. They may have been tunnel vision on the idea of a normal, unsheathed trigger, but such a trigger may have been weak and prone to bending, the loop adds structure. Perhaps with the benefit of pulling the trigger with a fingertip
My guess is the ring trigger was used to get something bulky enough to allow a proper double-action pull, and the company already had the tooling on hand. So it was never meant to have your finger in the ring, it was just a convenient part to use. And as other's have suggested, the unique look was probably useful for marketing.
It's certainly unlikely to be "people were smaller in the later 1800s." People were smaller, true, but that was because of poor nutrition and abysmal air quality. My understanding is that those effects will make bones shorter and muscle bulk smaller (and obviously, less body fat.) It doesn't usually make bones much *narrower* and there's minimal muscle bulk in the last two knuckles of the finger - so people's *hands* were not a lot smaller 150 years ago than they are now. This can be seen by the study of sword grips and tools and so on. The understanding of good *shades* has evolved, but the *size* needed to hold onto a thing hasn't changed much in 500 years.
Anyway, this is another good one to know about for role-playing purposes when people want a cool-looking thing for their character, so I'm glad you found and shared it! Thanks!
Two thoughts occur to me about the ring trigger. It may be a way of getting around someone's patent. Or, even though your finger won't go completely through, it may be a way of helping to orient the gun properly in the hand when drawing from the vest pocket. Pinch it between thumb and forefinger to slide it out like a keyring.
I do appreciate the ways he has to use his stand sometimes
This makes me think of modern knife companies. If you can make stuff for super cheap in China so why not sell a ridiculous 20 pocket cleaver or whatever. Forget the full auto, SBR, and suppressors I want a functional 12 gauge keychain.
Belgians in those days were basically the China of firearms, if it was weird and didn't make much sense, they probably made it, much like gadgets people buy on Amazon today :P.
A functional trigger guard on a gun that small would outsized as well as an additional expense. The ring trigger is a clever and snag free way to get the leverage needed to operate the double action without needing a trigger guard.
A bit weird is absolutely a good reason for a video, fascinating little thing.
Only back then would you have novelty desk guns, something to help pass time in the office next to all of the ashtrays.
Circle trigger so it won't catch on anything
And
For tyeing inside of clothing for concealment
I think?
Thanks
What would a conventional double action trigger look like on this pistol, would it be at a weird angle, fragile and would it be too easy to accidentally pull it or catch it on the edge of a vest pocket? Not having handled it it looks like it allows a full stroke of the trigger while making it more robust and less likely to get caught on things.
*It’s no Kolibri but it does come close.*
Made me smile!!!
A good Saturday morning with Forgotten Weapons. How are ya Ian?
It's adorable. Also, with its size, it could be a component on one of those MGs.
I absolutely love it. A tiny guy for a tiny guy: Tom Thumb.
A tiny gun for tiny shootouts!
He should run this at a backup gun match
I think I see a zero serial number on the side of that trigger?
Maybe the ring is just to give it the look of a mini trigger guard for the sake of looks.
Is it smooth bore?
I am assuming it is if the chequering on the trigger is the most involved piece of work on the gun....
Is there any chance of someone out there locating more information on a Three Barreled Derringer I saw years ago?
In 1980 I was attending the Houston Gun Show, Held in the Astro Dome.
Among all the exhibits was a table with "New-Made" Derringers, among other items.
This "Derringer" was caliber-ed in .22LR, and also there was a .32 (?) version.
The Barrel layout was unique.
2 on the bottom, with a third nestled in the grove on top.
Stack one pen on top of two pens, and you'll get the idea.
A knurl down the top of the upper barrel was the "sight".
Break action with the hinge in front of the trigger.
The total length was about 4"- 4.5"-ish.
Three pulls of the singe trigger, released each of three hammers. One for each barrel.
The Bird's Head Grip was only big enough for the 2 middle of my fat fingers, and the index finger was on the trigger area.
Pinky finger tucked under the butt.
It was available in Blued, Chromed, and Brass plated (Gold color), as well as Bronze, and Camo by special order.
Grip was two side panels, available in any of the 2 dozen types on the table, including pearl, white, and several wood.
They were held on by 2 screws and He would change them out on the spot.
Holsters were available too.
Houston Texas, and 1980 meant that you could take it with you after purchase.
No one cared. Lots of people were carrying purchases, and just strapped, because ... well just because.
I didn't have the $75 at the time, so missed out on something unique.
I've been searching ever since, and gun stores look at me like I missing a few screws when I describe the thing!
(I am, but that's not the reason why)
This would make an excellent "Forgotten Weapon" Episode, if anyone could find out the info.
I'd love to find it as well, maybe even purchase one, now that I can afford it (maybe).
I think they used a ring trigger in order to move the surface you interact with forward without enlarging the firearm. If it had a traditional trigger, it would be difficult to manipulate the trigger.
Was the barrel cut on that dragoon to tighten it up? I did it on a Pietta, and have seen a few originals cut like that.
Could the ring be for some sort of lanyard/chain attachment so you dont loose it out of your pocket?
Kinda like a pocket watch chain?
The ring is a reasonably strong and light means of getting a trigger far enough forwards to allow a decent grip on the gun.
One factor to consider was that this revolver seems to be double action. A little nub trigger wouldn't have worked, you need a trigger with a significant amount of travel. Perhaps it was in the shape of a ring because that would make it less likely to snag on something than a conventional trigger sans trigger guard would.
Being a circle also makes it stronger, as in addition to potentially snagging, a normal trigger this small could be prone to damage.
That's cool! 😊
I didn't have my contacts in when I saw the thumbnail and my immediate thought was "What the hell is that, a cricket?"
Probably where they got the idea for the noisy cricket.
My thought on the small ring trigger is that this firearm was visioned as one to be used for training children to shoot, while also being able to be marketed as a pocket pistol for adults.
Is it possible this was marketed for kids? Like dad and son to shoot together kind of thing? Idk seems excessively small for the average adult.
It's an adorable little handgun.
Hello, thanks for showing those,they're neat for sure! Hope all's well with everyone/thing. Be safe and take care, "God Bless", sincerely, Randy. 😇🙏👊
I suspect that the "ring" trigger was marketed as loop to run your watch fob chain through to secure the pistol in a vest pocket. The pistol looks only slightly larger than my stem winding pocket watch and if I was accosted by a robber after my watch, he could also receive 6 .22 shorts for his trouble.
could it be possible to manipulate the trigger in a similar way to the "spider flick"? You showed the double action but maybe it will work anyway
2:08 What is that marking starting with an "0..." on the right side of the trigger?
It is mainly concealed by the frame.
I find these kind of videos really interesting - I spotted a really odd two-in-one revolver in a museum in San Marino - Have you ever reviewed something like that, Ian?
Finally, a daily carry that fits my newborn's hand. No more worrying during play dates!
Weird is right, Ian. It does look like it was well made, though. The Belgians took some pride in their work, even for the oddball stuff.
How effective were these pocket pistols, Ian? You've covered a few tiny pistols of this era in the past and it's always been a question to me. For what they're intended for, would they have been worth it?
What is the funny spring like thing on right of the frame held by one screw at one end I thought we would see it move but it did not seem to.
This is basically a shrunk down Gasser style revolver, and on the proper full-size version that big spring is part of the hammer rebound mechanism; on this one it appears to be purely decorative, to fit the look. C&Rsenal have a video on the Gasser if you want to see how it works. :)
I thought it was a safety catch, but I could be wrong. Need to look into this.
I reckon that ring is so the trigger is smooth to prevent snagging but extends to a comfortable shooting position while keeping that easy double action.
I remember this one from MiB
The ring trigger reminds me of the finger rings on smallswords - they're too small to fit a finger through.
That said, on a smallsword, you just rest the pad of your finger on it for added point control, so they make sense. On this? I struggle to see it as anything other than marketing fluff.
My guess as to the ring trigger. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
I probably wouldn't bet money on it being intentional or that well-thought out, but at least in theory, if you grab the grip and use the point/pad of your index finger to apply a little sideways/forward pressure to the circle, you're one small movement from being able to fire while safe(ish) from accidentally snagging the trigger on something as you draw it out of your pocket. Kind of like having your finger on the trigger guard without an actual trigger guard.
I wonder whether the ring shaped trigger is just a bit more resistant to snagging. There would be a tendency for clothing or whatever to slide over the round shape.
I have a revolver which makes those two look huge. It is also Belgian but the calibre is 2mm and the ammunition is pin fire.