How Tolkien Changed The Hobbit & What It Really Meant! | Tolkien Lore
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
- The Hobbit was first released back in 1937, and things have changed since then! But what was altered? And what did that mean for future Middle-earth adventures? We look at this today!
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Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
02:43 - How The Hobbit Started
08:42 - How it Affected the Lord of the Rings & the Greater Legendarium
12:36 - Conclusion
13:37 - QotD & Thank you’s.
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A massive shout-out to Brandon for help in penning the script for this video! bratya_nobles
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The Hobbit Trilogy - New Line Cinema
Art in order of first appearance:
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The Lord of the Rings Trilogy - New Line Cinema
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Tolkien - Roger Magrini
Silmarillion - Two Trees of Valinor - Niahti
Hobbit or There and Back Again - Andrei-Pervukhin
Bilbo and the Eagles - Ted Nasmith
The Riddle Game - Ted Nasmith
And Back Again - arisuonpaa
Gollum - Maremorn
Damn this hobbit... - Crocorax
Gollum - Aste17
Gollum - Mark22
The Great War of Arda - Fell418
Bilbo Baggins - Raoul Vitale
The Rings of Power - Jim Wisniewski
Rumil of Tirion - TarvaBaggins
Summer at Bag End - kelleybean86
The One Ring - Lotr: Rise to War
The Silmarillion - Morgoth vs Fingolfin - Guillem H Pongiluppi
Frodo - Gabriele Dell'Otto
Lord of the Rings Fan Art - Alexandra Matos
Middle Earth - Klaradox
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#LordoftheRings #TheHobbit #tolkien - Zábava
We rarely think of just how old a writing the Hobbit and the Trilogy are. Truly the definition of Timeless Classics :) And don't even get me started on wonderful works like The Silmarillion...
To true! The Silmarillion and the unfinished tales books where beyond amazing! ❤
You can tell how much he wanted to change the material that became the silmarillion based off his latest writings found in Morgoths Ring & Nature of Middle Earth. If Tolkien live just two more lifetimes, I think he could have finished it. Too bad he wasn’t actually a Numenorian king…
A brilliant observation. It would be an endeavor for us to look at the sketch mythology, the cottage of lost play, and the lost road materials and the changes that carried over (like the children of the valar, for example, or 'valar folk'). Hopefully we can do such a video on the evolution of the Silmarillion someday!
It is great though, his mythology came out and exists like all world mythology; at different times, in varying editions, released over the course of time. Rather than an entire culture producing a mythos, this was the work of one human being with an amazing capacity for creativity and a work ethic to be marveled upon!
Thanks for leaving a comment brother!
No. If Tolkien had lived three lifetimes he'd have left three times as much unfinished material.
@@TJDious 🤣🤣
I love how Bilbo’s story isn’t the real truth. In the Hobbit, he “wins” the ring rather than straight up stealing it from Gollum to solidify his ownership of it as Gandalf would later come to realize. We hates it for ever”. Keep up the good work!
It’s definitely a great way to make a rewrite work so well 😁
Weird cause Tom is the WORST person to have it, he'd lose it, God forbit. Honestly at least a Balrog would keep it safe from others and "sleep" with it hiding it away forever.
It's probably the coolest and most seamless retcon in history
Unless I am missing something crucial, I understand that how Bilbo got the ring was that he found the ring before meeting Gollum! Then he found out about the invisibility power of the ring and his way out after asking himself what was in his pocket put loud to himself and Gollum not being able to answer… etc.
Where is the stealing of it? Unless you say it is stealing to pick up something that is lost where anyone can walk, and that could be a point taken, there was no outright stealing here.
I recently bought a 1937 facsimile edition of the hobbit. It’s been interesting to note the minor differences from the standard edition. My favorite odd thing from the original, when the Dwarf party sets out on their journey, they soon reach a point where “Policemen never come so far”. The thought of blue-uniformed “Policemen” in Middle Earth cracks me up.
I wonder if those “policemen” eventually turned into the dunedain rangers for Tolkien, secretly watching over the lands of the north
@@TACTICALwaffle2 also, i think hobbits had some kind of police force. I think they were used i larger numbers during the scouring of the shire?
@@TL_1920 Shirriffs I think it's spelled.
Might add, the line was changed in the later versions to: "travelers never come this way".
Conversely, Bilbo's lie that the ring was a "present" was in line with Gollum's birthday present lie. It makes sense that they both want to remove doubt that the ring belongs to them as it was freely given. That was the power of the ring, so the revision makes perfect sence.
I think it is fine for the Author to make whatever changes that person wants, because it’s their work. I don’t think others should make changes to an Author’s work.
I love how the changes to the story are explained and is not just a retcon that is ignored like in most other stories.
Quite the heads-up, this! As for rewriting certain passages in 'The Hobbit'? This was an inspired solution for tying that volume with its sequel, 'The Lord of the Rings'. Essential edit.
This is such a lovely and well told story of an artist who is ever-striving to reach perfection in his craft!
Gollum will always be the true hero of this story. Accidental hero yes, but still the hero.
Yeah, this is often an important point to bring up, as it goes toward one of my other usual "complaints". I know the big reason why, with Sauron being depicted as the Necromancer, and being so close to where the Ring was fir centuries, he STILL didn't feel it, even though Gollum and Bilbo both used it, was because in that place, the Ring wasn't "the Ring" yet, nor was the Necromancer so powerful, and important, a character. It's always a little silly/annoying that Frodo is told not to put it on because evil will be drawn to it, and Sauron might sense where it is, finally, yet when it was literally in his forest backyard, he was none the wiser, yet he wasn't significantly "weaker", and it's because of the changes to the material as the Lord of the Rings took form, after the Hobbit was published.
I’ve wondered about that… though part of the explanation is the cloaking of the area around Mordor in some kind of darkness also clouded Sauron’s ability to see well within his realm.
One thought I have about Sam wearing the ring in Mordor, is that his focus and heart was so centered on his love and grief toward Frodo, that the ring could not work the same way with him in showing him up, almost as if Sams love dampened the rings call to Sauron.
Alatar? 6:41
Enjoyed this video 😀
Not purposely 😂 but 100% works as Blue Wizard art 😁
😁 Well, because you asked so nicely and because I have loved Tolkien’s ‘Hobbit’ journeys since 1971 when I first started reading them, and rereading them over and over, I am subscribing.
A work in progress until his end, and because of his notes, the story continues -- "...the road goes ever on and on..."
Even though in general, I am a fan of keeping things original, these changes (as you pointed out) add to the continuity of the story, because it puts emphasis on the power of the ring. One thing I didnt fully realize, and would like to compliment you on pointing out, however briefly, is the fact that JRR tolkien was working extensively on the silmarillion, before and in tandem with his other books. I sort of assumed that since it was released After JRR’s death, his descendants wrote it within an «already created» universe. Guess I wasnt as well versed a tolkinian fan as i thought. Great video!!
My dear friend once went for Sunday tea in the late 40s with JRR Tolkien. She went with her then boyfriend who was in his Class at University, she was made welcome and sat and listened to all they had to say about Old Anglo Saxon. As she sat there she noticed his draft of the hobbit on the coffee table next to her she always wished that she had asked if she could look at it
Tolkien was clever in how he altered Bilbo's tale of gaining the Ring
Great work, I always felt Dennis Mckernan's into the Forge and trilogy was like an extended revised into Tolkiens world.
I think it is another brilliant style with text changes only the author could perform to inform the readers that the story tellers perspective can be distorted to reflect better by bending the truth or as in the 1st age where the Noldor story tellers avoid all blame for their mistakes.
I subscribed because you so kindly asked. And because I love your videos! THANK YOU!
I just want to thank you for this. I recently stumbled upon your channel, & have enjoyed each episode so far.
Please keep up the great work.
I think many more changes to the Hobbit should have been made. Gandalf’s quest to Erebor explained in terms of the grander, more noble scheme that it was, as opposed to just treasure hunting, the ridiculous way the Dwarves did the dishes, Beorn’s stupid waiter ponies, to name just a few.
Nice video as always. Have you read about Tolkien's attempt at a post-LOTR third edition of The Hobbit to bring it completely in line with those books as far as tone and writing style etc. go? Interesting stuff!
That would be interesting indeed!
Great video as always. How about one discussing the changes they made to the hobit for the movie that was made.
Brilliant content. Love your content - exceptionally well done - thank you TBS !
When extending a book form a single story to part of an epic story revisions can be needed. No author is omniscient at the beginning. Omniscience's comes at the end of a story. I think he did an excellent job which is attested to by the longevity of the stories.
I really dont understand the 2 versions of the riddles in the dark chapter.
So the first edition Bilbo finds the ring and then he meets Gollum and they do the riddles and Gollum tell him if Bilbo wins, then Gollum will give him a present.and after Bilbo wins, Gollum is angry because he doesnt have the ring to give to Bilbo.Then Bilbo goes to the dwarves and tell them the story and the truth.
The second edition Bilbo finds the ring, they do the riddles, and Gollum tells him if he wins he will show him the way out.Then after Bilbo wins, Gollum goes to the cave to find the ring and with the help of it kill bilbo.Gollum cant find the ring and become angry.
Then bilbo goes to the dwarves and tell them the first edition storyline and that the ring was a present, but after that he tells the truth to Gandalf and Frodo.
In the council of Elrond, when its Bilboo turn to tell his story, he says that he is sorry for the lie he told to some people(Dwarves) about finding the ring.
The way Tolkien changed this and combine it with the story is a clever way, i dont know if i get that right.
I am happy with what I have read and known. Thanks for the video.👍🏼
One of the things I wish Tolkien would’ve worked on is the identity of the witch king. He is one of my favorite villains. In fact I would’ve LOVED a history of the 9 ringwraiths.
Does anyone know why Smaug was able to Sense Bilbo? The In-Universe Reason?
It was because the Ring Calls to All Evil Creatures, and Smaug more than Most, as Dragons can sense Treasure, even Treasure not their own, and Smaug was the Greatest Dragon of the Third Age. The Original Reason was likely that the Ring was Magical.
I am cognizant enough of my own abilities to know that I am not yet qualified to answer the question of "Could this man, one of the last polymaths, have done better".
The other major change is the original had:
"There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves (or Gnomes) and the Sea-elves lived for ages and grew fair and wise and learned and invented their magic and their cunning craft in the making of beautiful and marvellous things, before they came back into the Wide World. In the Wide World the Wood-elves *lingered in the twilight **_before the raising of_** the Sun and Moon,* and afterwards they wandered in the forests that grew beneath the sunrise."
While the revised has:
There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves and the Sea-elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and invented their magic and their cunning craft in the making of beautiful and marvellous things, before some came back into the Wide World. In the Wide World the Wood-elves *lingered in the twilight **_of our_** Sun and Moon,* but loved best the stars; and they wandered in the great forests that grew tall in lands that are now lost.
Killing Saruman in Twin Towers of the movie, changing from the books to were Saruman and wormtongue went to the Shire! I thought that was wrong, lot of little things, they left out that would have added to the Legacy of Frodo and Bilbo!
We have a video dedicated to the importance of the Scouring of the Shire + why it was left out - give it a look-in if time permits friend!
cheers.
@Mike. I think the extended version of LotR was about 11 hours; some stuff had to be left out, or done in such a way that the result was the same without taking up much run-time (and money). I was a bit disappointed that Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs were omitted completely, but I understand why Peter Jackson and his team made that decision.
So tokens original thought about the ring was that it wants to be found so Gollum gives the ring to Bilbo but that totally defeats the logic that it's all consuming and corrupting and on top of that if the ring wants to be found why didn't Gollum just give it to Sauron? It's hard to be an artist and look back on stuff that you could have made better but token was such a genius all she had to do was change a couple sentences. I did not know about this change thank you for the video
I wonder what would the events play out if Bilbo never found the ring.
I would have loved if there would have been far more dwarves than the elves and thorin would have survived the battle of 5 armies and also leading a huge dwarven empire and having a major role in war of the ring.
Did Gollum/Smeagol ever put the ring on?
I wish that Tolkien had rewritten the Hobbit as a novel for adults.
I wonder how the Lord of the rings would tern out if bilbo never meet Gollum or if he never found the one ring
😁
I know Tolkien originally had the dwarves have a Silmaril instead of the Arkenstone.
👍😊
First, I would hesitate to think that I could come up with a better version than Tolkien did, so I'll let the Question-of-the-day be. If anyone wants to see how Tolkien's writings changed over the years, his son Christopher, published a 12-volume series called "The History of Middle of Middle Earth". Morgoth's Ring (mentioned by ZephrOptional below) is volume 10 of that series. If I recall correctly (it's been a few decades since I read them), "Unfinished Tales" and the first 2 books of the series, "The Book of Lost Tales" have some new material, and there's a bit scattered throughout the remaining volumes, but it's mostly different versions of certain stories within the Hobbit, LoTR, and the Silmarillion and analyses. I enjoyed reading them, but it can be heavy going in places.
Video 254
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Is the word "Middle-Earth" ever even mentioned in Hobbit?
first