What's MORE Important? RG or Differentials? -
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 12. 2019
- It's #MoMonday!
This week, Mo discusses RG's and Differentials and what is the most influential factor when it comes to overall ball reaction. Before we begin, does anyone care how an undrilled ball rolls?
Enjoy this one and please excuse his voice for he has a note from his Doctor. - Sport
RIP MO
God bless you wherever you are my dear teacher.❤
I miss this guy… RIP. 🙏❤️
We all miss him
so does the whole bowling industry
Damn =( First time seeing him and I'm kinda sad rn
Out of curiousity, how does one figure out the differential and intermediate differential of drilled equipment?
Thanks Mom, I'm gonna have to watch this five more times before I get it
MO. You’ve always been The Godfather of the modern day ball design/layout/surface/you name it.... everything you publicized, I studied to the “T” with my favorite being how influential balance holes could be in determining the strength or weakness of any ball. I used to absolutely LOVE taking an old timer and proving to him that no matter what he would like to think, two balls drilled with completely different CG positions would react THE EXACT SAME So long as the val angle and pin distance were the same. Anyways, I built a huge customer base just by proving to these old timers or anyone else for that matter that often what we think are factual are actually just years of misunderstanding.
Anyways, I had the pleasure of getting to meet you down in East Hartford, CT during a Radical, Brunswick, DV8 product release. During this course, you showed us factual data of how much the Differential dramatically increased through your use of different layouts in combination with your totally genius patented “Finger scoop” technology as an example because it had just been launched. Anyways, My question to you is,, how do you continue forward now without wanting to strangle the higher ups at the USBC for basically taking away one of the single most important things u researched throughout I’d guess a majority of your career. I for one, HATE IT. I absolutely fucking hate it. Because of you I was able to find so much success for all of my go to layouts, and every single one utilized a balance hole. My two favorites were by far two strong symmetrical balls with your patented Motion hole. How dare they take what you worked your ass off for. I know you are one of the single most busiest men alive but if you can find the time to share your thoughts on this I would be soooo sooo very greatful. Mo Pinel, you are and always will be a LEGEND my friend. Thank you for everything that you do for us.
The intel I've received is that the new specs are about the 2 handers. The ability to have a thumb hole that they don't use as a second balance hole or even turning the grips around and throwing it opposite of the way it was drilled.
RIP,
Understandable explanation.
Thank you for your contribution to the bowling industry.
Thank you. Much ❤ and respect 🙏
this was the best explanation i've ever gotten!!
Brilliantly explained
Thank you so much for the useful information. Mo just the fact that you and Phil take the time to do the podcast and of course your information on Monday mini seminars would be reason enough for anyone to switch to Radical Bowling Technologies. The competition seems to rely on the Pro Shops to inform their customers and many of them do a very poor job educating the consumer. Thank you again and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours
Facts!
Awesome information.
Very informative channel.
Thank you
Everyone just wants that BIG BIG hook, like from 44 out to 3 and back. Like I used to be like that, as I grew older and started really paying more attention to how balls roll, I’ve realized that the BIGhook that everyone wants isn’t the best in all cases. I would usually play 38-42 out to about 5-7 and back, but then I realized that it was starting to be more of a hassle but now I’m more wanting to play 20-30 to about 10-15 and I’ve seen more of a positive improvement to roll and game score. Definitely more consistent
so, how do we determine what the intermediate diff is? And how do we know what it is and how to calculate it on a drilled ball?
Please come out with the Conspiracy Redux with Dynamicore. Make it a wine color. You'll sell a ton of them.
WOW!!! THAT WAS 30 YEARS OF PHYSICS NUTSHELLED INTO A TWO MINUTE VIDEO... GG'S 👍
I know a left handed bowlers get a bad rep. However, suppose a lefty has a 600+ rev rate that loves Brunswick, Radical, and DV8.. What drilling for what brand would be recommend for a 41' length for 35 volume. HPl surface.
so, intermediate drill differential is with the ball drilled. How do you measure it?
R.i.p. Mo
How much does coefficient of restitution play in ball reaction? Is it important? Or just another number.
That's just measure of kinetic energy transfer. It's normalized to 1 because it's a percentage. 1 would be if all of the energy from the ball transferred to the pins and 0 would be pin the stuck to the ball and had zero effect in a sense. It's a measure of the elasticity of the impact, pretty cool actually.
This could be the crack pipe talking (seriously I’m just a league bowler) but I always thought RG mostly influenced length (first transition) and Intermediate Diff influenced the shape of the second transition (really due to diff ratio). I’ve always had this hypothesis that these lower diff symmetricals (I mean around .030) were popular because they have weaker “engines”, but higher differential ratio so can have shorter, sharper hook phase. I just don’t have all the drilled numbers to prove it. Also explains why a big asym with around .041 diff might be better liked than a big asym with .058 diff. Smaller denominator, greater Diff Ratio.
Ps hope you’re feeling better!
So a 5% difference in RG should equate to the ball rolling 3 feet sooner(2.48 rg) or 3 feet later(2.58 rg). If my equating is correct, that's a heck of a difference, right?
There's a lot more math having to do with conservation of angular momentum (the math of revs) and intermediate axis theorem (the math of flare) than I can easily type in a CZcams comment. But RG's effect on the ball essentially has to do with how fast the ball revs with the same amount of energy imparted onto it. In terms of rotating objects you actually need to square the radius so the difference between 2.48^2 and 2.58^2 is actually 7.6%. What that means is that with the exact same amount of rotational energy imparted from your hand, the lowest RG ball will rotate 7.6% faster than the highest RG ball, and with the same ball speed you should see 7.6% more revolutions over the length of the lane. This doesn't necessarily mean it will hook 7.6% earlier, or 7.6% more, that all still depends more on the differential of the ball, and also the interaction with lane oil. But the ball will go through it's flare phase 7.6% faster and enter a roll 7.6% sooner
Another thing to consider though is that every ball has a High RG (pin in the track) and low RG (pin on your PAP) and as the ball flares it migrates from the high RG to the low RG. The difference between these two numbers is your differential. so a ball with a 2.58RG and a 0.054 Differential will eventually flare itself into a 2.53RG position down lane.
@@St0rm301 One of the very few highly intelligent and well thought out answers on the internet, well done!
@@St0rm301 How can you (Not you MO) in one sentence say RG doesn't matter then in another sentence say the diff is what matters but it is essentially the difference between the HIGH RG and LOW RG? Am I missing something or being pedantic. To me RG matters in general and then on top of it the RG defines the DIFF?
Also even if we talk about diff we are talking about a dynamic RG at a certain point on the lane so it is still RG dominating. The equations of conservation of momentum only talk about Rotational Inertia (Basically defines RG) and Angular Velocity, Linear Velocity, and Mass. So what we are doing is making the Rotational inertia a derivative as it is changing based on the imbalence.
So, how much do the stats really change for a "drilled" ball? And, how much would you say the coverstock affects the stats?
You can see the final values for every layout option Radical recommends in their drill sheets. It is significant and you can probably change the final numbers even more than what is shown with some drilling tips. This is assuming you use your thumb, no-thumb layouts don’t change the dynamic stats as much. If you are talking about two piece vs three piece balls, Mo did a video about this a little bit ago. If you are talking about switching cover stock type without changing thickness, it doesn’t change anything.
@@dapoggi4434 Sorry, I don't understand how this relates to my comment; is there something in it you don't agree with? I understand you may want to use different layouts for different balls but the RG and differential values are the same if the coverstock is the same thickness of solid, hybrid or pearl reactive resin.
Personally, I wouldn't drill balls for particular lanes because I bowl at too many different places but I could understand it if you only bowl in one or two locations.
I'm happy to pay more attention to Int. Diff. stats, but the six balls I'm looking at now are
.000 {all symmetrical}. I do see the asyms have some numbers like .015 to .020.
Dapoggi I wouldn’t agree with that, if they weren’t important we should be throwing perfectly balanced spheres with the exact same layouts on every ball with just different cover stocks.
Dapoggi Mo has said shape is mostly influenced by the core, how it is effected by drilling and how it is oriented at the moment of release. You obviously need the correct coverstock for the conditions you are playing but you can’t change the shape much just changing that so if shape is something you need to change, you will need to change your release or the dynamic values of your ball (could be different core or layout). I know it isn’t the first thing to check but considerate it important.
1 divided by 2 is actually 50% not 5% as he states here in the video.
Then move the decimal because the actual numerator is .1 (the range of RG values described directly before that) and the answer is 5%
@@AverageLeagueHack The problem is that he isn't calculating a percentage, he's just making shit up. His engineering degree can be defeated by a 7th grade child.
The difference between 2.48 and 2.58 is .1. Dividing the difference by 2, is NOT how you calculate a percentage. To calculate the percentage of this, would be 2.48 * X = 2.58. Solve for X by dividing both sides of the equation by 2.48. X = 2.58/2/48, X = 1.04.
2.58 is a 4% increase over 2.48. Again, this can be re-proven by basic math. 2.48 * 1.04 and viola, you get 2.58.
More important than this, is that just because the difference on the RGs is only 4%, doesn't mean it's only a 4% difference on ball motion.
What's even more odd, is that Mo was part of the USBC study that identified the largest impact on ball motion. He referenced it all the time, when talking about how important surface was. When he wanted to downplay CG's because of the minuscule effect they have, he used that same study. Well, that study also lists RG as 6th largest factor on ball motion. MORE than Differential, Int Differential., and Spin Time. So this one is a bit perplexing overall. www.bowl.com/uploadedFiles/Equip_and_Specs/Equip_and_Specs_Home/08ballmotionstudy.pdf
Interesting subject. About Diffs : 0.23 x 2.5 is 0.575, not 0.53 though... Nice info on the intermediate Diff of the drilled ball, but what would be even more interesting (since very few people own D-terminators), is a ballpark correlation of Int.Diff of the undrilled with the drilled ball for 3 major types of drillings.
The Therion who throws undrilled balls? I use the sheet that comes with the ball
@@larrydelvecchio1078 No one throws undrilled balls. Not a difficult concept. Perhaps you didn't read carefully what i proposed. If you do what i mentioned, then everyone will have an approximation of Int.Diff for popular layouts for all balls not just Radical.
Maybe in the near future with 7 brands????
@@larrydelvecchio1078 i hope
the most technical mind in bowling we ever saw and is so missed
The problem is that he isn't calculating a percentage, he's just making it up. His engineering degree can be defeated by a 7th grade child.
The difference between 2.48 and 2.58 is .1. Dividing the difference by 2, is NOT how you calculate a percentage. To calculate the percentage of this, would be 2.48 * X = 2.58. Solve for X by dividing both sides of the equation by 2.48. X = 2.58/2/48, X = 1.04.
2.58 is a 4% increase over 2.48. Again, this can be re-proven by basic math. 2.48 * 1.04 and viola, you get 2.58.
More important than this, is that just because the difference on the RGs is only 4%, doesn't mean it's only a 4% difference on ball motion.
What's even more odd, is that Mo was part of the USBC study that identified the largest impact on ball motion. He referenced it all the time, when talking about how important surface was. When he wanted to downplay CG's because of the minuscule effect they have, he used that same study. Well, that study also lists RG as 6th largest factor on ball motion. MORE than Differential, Int Differential., and Spin Time. So this one is a bit perplexing overall. www.bowl.com/uploadedFiles/Equip_and_Specs/Equip_and_Specs_Home/08ballmotionstudy.pdf
To be clear, this is nothing against Mo, (RIP) or any of his other contributions, this is isolated to this specific video and his statements here alone. If you say shit like "Where did you get your engineering degree from?" then you can't fail basic algebra in the same 3 minute video and not expect to get push back.
In other words, he did it in his head and got within 1%. More than accurate enough to illustrate the point he was trying to make.
The funny thing to me is he is saying RG doesn't matter but is used to define differential... Very odd way of talking about things.
To me that sounds very contradictory. Does anyone else see the problem with this.
So is Mo saying a drilled ball with an RG of 2.67, Diff .058 and Int Diff .016 will roll basically the same as a ball with an RG of 2.46, Diff .058 and Int Diff .016?
We can ignore RG pretty much?
I think he kind of exaggerated a bit. He said the effect is there, but minor. How minor? ..well he didn't say...On the other hand the USBC ball motion study also had interesting results about Diff, which makes certain Diff values irrelevent. So maybe the intermediate is more important than the 3. At least on asymm balls.
Now I’m confused…
So my Magnitude 055 is no good anymore??? (out of regs)
Grandfathered in?
Grandfathered in
@@TheFreakout74 Your .055 is fine. USBC made a procedural change that new submissions with .055 or greater would require about 5 dozen balls to be tested for approval anything less would require only 2 balls. So to include a margin for error Radical plans to only design balls with a max diff of .053 Mo discusses this in his pro shop seminar about the change/elimination of the balance hole rule. It's on CZcams.
@@AverageLeagueHack its not my .055 😃
Your .055 is fine. USBC made a procedural change that new submissions with .055 or greater would require about 5 dozen balls to be tested for approval anything less would require only 2 balls. So to include a margin for error Radical plans to only design balls with a max diff of .053 Mo discusses this in his pro shop seminar about the change/elimination of the balance hole rule. It's on CZcams.
Pretty soon these Brunswick/Radical guys are going to say bowling balls don’t matter. Just throw a football at the pins.
That's radical!
That sport actually exists. Look up fowling.
1/2 is .5 To get a percent you multiply by 100 which is 50% not 5%. And where does the denominator of 2 come in? Not an engineering major but math. Don't be cocky in your videos
But your numerator is wrong. It should be .1 not 1. So 1/2 of .1 is .05, x100 = 5%.