Are $20 Budget Torque Keys ACCURATE??
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2024
- Everyone's got one lying around. The humble torque key (Torqkey) is a preset torque driver, that's cheap and widely available. ..But are they accurate?
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I was expecting this to be not very interesting, I was very wrong
😆😆😆
High praise coming from the man himself
How tf grip position affects? I am bamboozled. 😅
I suspected they were fairly accurate because the same style of tool is provided with the Threadripper CPU from AMD, at much lower torque 1.5 I believe. With over 4000 + pads on the CPU the 4 screws that hold it down have to be torqued accurately so all the pads make even contact with the pins on the motherboard.
That was my first instinct aswell, no way in hell AMD is shipping a tool with more than 5% inaccuracy for such a delicate process
I'd bet they're even from the same manufacturer. They probably do custom orders (with large enough volume) using different colors of plastic, bits, finishes, etc. To get a different torque they just need to swap out the spring.
@@HappySlappyFace I think there's tolerances for it. Remember that LGA contact pins are tiny springs. At 5% inaccuracy this tool is probably well within spec, you don't have to be super accurate, but still more accurate than "by feel" with a normal screwdriver.
You destroyed the more accurate of the two torque keys! 😄
Great video. Thanks for posting.
That part hurt my brain! It would have made sense to cut open the brand new replaceable one not old faithful!
I think now you need to rename your channel to "The Torque Sauce" 😂
This guy should be a candidate for a PhD in torqueology. I’ll never think about these tools the same way again.
Oh crap, I’m pigeon holed now
@@TheBikeSauce 🦆
Too bad Peak Torque is already taken.
First time watching your video and it's clear, interesting, and to-the-point. Subscribed!
Thanks for taking that apart for understanding. Demystifies quite a bit
👍🚴♀️
I have had one from Park tools for several years....thanks for the testing!
Interesting experiment, thanks for the initiative 👍👍
Excellent - subscribed on the strength of just this video.
Absolutely great video, thanks!!!
Excellent video and explanation!!
While it hurts a bit to see you tear the torque key up I love the content! Never could figure out how any torque wrench but lacked the courage. Thank you Mr. Science Sauce!
Interesting vid, You should have reassembled the one you opened, put it in the test machine to see if it was still as accurate 👍, I have a couple of sizes at home and some fixed and adjustable parks at work. Keep up the good work👍
Very interesting video. Ive seen some adjustable torque wrenches that have handles which 'float' on a bolt, so you always apply the torque from the same length down the shaft.
I have two torque keys specifically for wheel swapping. One lives permanently with the SeaSucker Talon in my car, and the other is near where my second wheel set hangs on the wall. They’ve both been extremely useful single-purpose tools for the only torque-sensitive thing I frequently change on my bike, and it’s great to see some validation that they might not be too terrible!
Two keys and a 5-pack of 6mm bits cost less than the original Feedback Range Torque Wrench I got for 50% off, and they get infinitely more use (though having both is clearly helpful).
Loving all the tool content, always learn something new!
Also, the world needs a The Bike Sauce Science hat. And by “the world” I mean “I”.
The science hat is actually just a Skratch Labs hat 😆
what wheel needs a torque key to install?
@@markifi “Need” may be a strong word, but my thru-axles have a torque rating on them.
thanks for the insight! Love the concise format, straight to the point
This was an excellent video!
Would like to see the hand adjustable torque wrenches. Would be interesting how accurate they are.
Like the following:
IceTool 3-10 NM $23
MARQUE Adjustable Bike Torque Wrench - 4, 5, 6 Nm $35
Pro Bike Tool 4, 5, 6 NM $40
CDI Torque Products TorqControl TLA28NM 2-8 NM $64.55
Park Tools ATD 1.2 Adjustable 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5 6 NM (do you need 4.5 & 5.5) 71.95
neat. I don't have tons of parts I need a 5nm torque key like this, but it's good to know they are accurate.
Interesting video, for sure. I have always been wondering what the effect of universal joints/sockets is on the torque accuracy. Maybe a fun topic for another video.
Love to see this testing. Can you test a CDI TorqControl Torque Tool - TLA28NM? They are fairly cheap at $60, made by a reputable vendor being a subsidiary of Snap-On, adjustable from 2-8nm, and should be length independent. Thanks
Great video. I have definitely noticed that the Park Tool torque wrench requires less force if you grip the handle at the end vs in the middle.
Those are used when applying the correct pressure to server CPU retaining brackets, and sometimes coolers for said CPU.
I mean this is the community that is rich enough to spend over 1k on supposedly "budget" bikes. Doesn't seem like tool cost is a factor to you guys.
Great video, it’s given me confidence to buy this type. Order placed!
I bought the Park Tool ATD-1.2 some years ago and to be honest I've never had the chance to use it. The reason is the bike I bought have torques that start from 7Nm(Stem says 7-9Nm) Park Tool used to offer fixed one's before this one which was a 4, 5 or 6Nm. now it looks like those have been discontinued so they only offer the adjustable 4-6Nm version.
I really wish I had a use for this tool so we'll see if that happens some day I change bike or not. In the meantime I'll just use normal torquewrenches.
Very nice and interesting video!! Thanks!!
Keep up the great work providing what I feel is very valuable information to the cycling community. Another great video with real world stuff that we can all use.
Torqkey for the win !!
This is insane. I literally just searched for info on this 3 days ago. I bought a Lezyne Torque Driver and wondered if it had been tested. Then started looking into these types too. I'd love if you could test the Lezyne Torque Driver's claimed 2-10NM spec. It's more similar to a beam torque driver I guess as it's not a click type.
Didn't even know Torque Keys were a thing. Very nice.
Torque wrench is also good for not pulling the threads out on cheap aluminum claiming to be 7075 and ya find out its def way more soft than that.
So much talk about calibrating torque wrenches. Obviously some designs can’t really be adjusted. But others? Maybe a video on how “civilians” can test and/or adjust their torque wrenches? (Since you are “Torque Man” 😊)
I think Park Tool recently released a video about how to properly use their torque wrenches. I do remember it was a bit complicated to set the amount, aside from where to grip it properly.
Can you also test the torque settings of power tools like a drill
Can you make video about the difference between shimano select and advanced cables
Great vid! Just curious on why did you get the torque meter since the cost seem quite high for just testing bike torque wrenches? What other application scenarios do you use it for?
Just for these past few videos. I suppose u could also use it to calibrate my other wrenches
very cool video. but why do you have a torque tester just seems like an odd tool to have around lol? is it just for the videos?
Considering that bolt tension varies by plus minus 25% for any given torque, the inaccuracy of a torque wrench is hardly a problem. In my opinion, with a 25% inaccuracy (or even more in some cases, as SRAM recently discovered) the slavish use of torque wrenches for every single bolt on a bike is the bigger problem. I think it is just an industry means of blaming the assembler for every failure. "Did you torque it correctly?", followed by "was your torque wrench calibrated?". Well, provided your wrench was calibrated to within 25% - YES.
I'd only use a torque wrench on items prone to crush failure.
Bad warranties from manufacturers don’t make torque wrenches as a form of standard practice something bad.
Not to say it can’t or shouldn’t be done without them, but they’re good practice nonetheless, especially for people with little experience
10% extra error is 10% extra error
OooOOo Burrnn!! @@TheBikeSauce
The issue with SRAM was that there was too much lock tight in the threads, which stopped it from achieving proper torture. And, you should still torque things to spec. Over tightening is pointless and risks damage.
25% error is not so bad if you're not sending thing to space. Everyone as his own opinion on what is "correctly tightened" and it varies greatly from bolt to bolt. Bike parts are light/optimised for weight. They should be tightened with a torque wrench. I can guarantee you if you tell different people to tighten a bolt the difference will be >100% and at some point some will loosen ans some part will break. Torque wrench are a good tool for bike, which is not ikea furniture. It's also great for check your bolt are not loose, it's hard not to be tempted to tighten a bit more each bolt after each check. It prevents that. However one important rule i found is when fitting a new part with a torque wrench you will probably have to tighten it a bit more after a ride.
Well there ya go... I'd always avoided the set torque key as I assumed they would be inaccurate. Thanks Bloke!
I'm curious how the higher priced options from Park Tool (i.e the PTD 5) would compare to these cheaper options. If it can't match them for accuracy then it makes you wonder what you're paying for! I'd hope the more expensive options will hold their accuracy for longer at least, even if it is only =/-10%, but that would require more long term testing...
Another nice thing about this design is you can use them for undoing bolts (from my understanding this can damage some torque wrenches).
That's what I like about Prestacycle torque keys (just not for undoing stubborn bolts). I tried the Mini version initially since it seemed inexpensive enough (I got the Ritchey branded version) and I was buying something else on the website, only to realise the body is too small to comfortably torque 5 Nm, so I bought the Pro version, which turned out to be so much more comfortable.
@@yonglingng5640 Definitely a challenge to get the 5nm without both hands on it. Wouldn't recommend for tough bolts, but for seat height adjustments or similar it's easy to carry on the bike
@@redkeyspoke I was thinking of taking my Prestacycle Pro with me every time I ride along with a few 1/4-inch hex drive bits since at least one of my jersey pockets is always empty, but I haven't got to do this yet.
If anybody in the group I'm riding needs something torqued to 5 Nm, at least I could help.
Thanks!
🤘🤘🤘
The inside view of that tool was simple but oddly satisfying to see haha
Can u try with the twist type with the numerical torque value upon twisting. Like going 2nm and 6nm
Most products in manufacture are typically off spec by +/- 10%. Worked at a fabrication shop and almost all of our blueprints had +\- 10% tolerance
Was reading how to calibrate a torque wrench like the park tool ? Are you supposed to try a higher setting on a a known higher torque spec THEN set to your lower torque for the bolt spec you need?
That's fascinating. Is there a way to calibrate some torque wrenches? Also, I'm glad that Nm seems to be more common than foot/inch lbs of decades past. Thankfully, my old skool Craftsman tools have both.
From some designs I've seen, there's a set screw that adjusts the spring's tension. I've never tried it myself since I don't have a torque tester, but for now, maybe take it to a torque tool lab for recalibration.
I usually buy one of these when I pack my bike and fly somewhere. Easy to torque everything down for assembly and then I just leave it for somebody else.
this Torque Key is used for cpu's on the motherboard (more specific on the AMD's threadripper's and epyc's)
I don’t have a bike. I’m not getting a bike. I’m not planning on working on any bikes. Yet l was enthralled by this video and subscribed just in case you make more like it!
😆😆😆 nice! I may have a couple more in mind..
You should definitely buy a bike and ride it every day. Bikes are rad. Life without bikes is not even life.
1:50 I think your hand position on the handle influences when this tool clicks. If you hold it closer tho the pivot point it clicks at a higher torque and vice versa.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
lol nevermind. didn't watch the whole video yet.
So where are you meant to hold the park torque wrench? I have one and I need to know.
they might not be exactly the torque rating but knowing nothing id say thats pretty acceptable, also super accurate to replicate the torque number with consecutive tries
Thanks for another excellent vid!
I think the big takeaway here should be that Park Tool is way overpriced, and since your PT torque wrench is faulty anyway, maybe it could get dissected on the next episode? 😁
Length dependency isn't so much about where on the handle you hold as the actuation setting is still the same on the wrench and the actuation point is usually right at the point of the driver. Hence no matter where you hold, the wrench would still actuate when the set amount of torque is applied at the driver end (as long as you let off immediately as the wrench actuates). However, if you have an extension or offset at the driver end, something like a crowfoot or a torque wrench extension (which isnt really a thing in the bike industry), the calculation for the applied torque at the driver end would be different due to change in distance of the actuation point and where the driver is actually located. This can actually be helpful if you only have a fixed preset torque on you torque device (such as those torque drivers or torque keys), and require other torque values. But still, it is interesting to see that even inexpensive torque drivers are accurate.
I know it’s counterintuitive, but the applied torque does change depending on where you hold the handle on length dependent wrenches.
@@TheBikeSauce ideally it should not as the actuation force is still dependent on the spring in the wrench, however we rarely ever get ideal circumstances and in practice it does make sense that if you hold near the actuation point you would not be able to let off right when it actuates causing it to over-torque. You can try it with an extension to the handle, the digital torque meter should read the same as when you are holding the handle. Also would be cool if you could try calibrating and adjusting the spring in the park tools wrench so that it stops being 10% out of cal! 😆
Edit: kudos to you! I saw that you did a torque wrench teardown and explanation video. I love informative videos like these 😄
@@TheBikeSauce I think I understand the slight misconception here. The amount of force applied by the hand certainly does go up the closer to the driving point you hold. However the applied force at the driver side of the wrench doesn't actually increase. This is due to how torque is calculated. 5Nm of torque is 5 newtons of force 1 meter away from where its applied, or it can be 10 newtons of force at 0.5 meters. Hence in the experiment which you showed, it was most likely that when you actuated the torque wrench, you did not let off in time allowing you to follow through the actuation movement in the wrench and applying more torque after the wrench has already actuated. However all this is only applicable for click type wrenches and only when you hold the area behind the pivoting point of the wrench actuating mechanism.
A digital torque wrench is non length dependent, but a typical click torque wrench is. If you have a minute, check our video on the math behind the click torque wrench. We show mathematically the reason why grip position does matter for length dependent wrenches
Very interesting
Try out Tohnichi torque wrenches!
how much does the park tool cost versus if you would buy the most common torque keys.
are the torque keys the better choice from a price and easy to use perspective?
the park tool for example has to be set correctly and maintained. and the cheap torque keys I could label with colors.
If you know you're working with just one torque spec, preset torque keys are a no brainer. Prestacycle's preset torque keys (the ones he's holding, the Mini version is sold under various brands) are colour-coded. I personally use the larger Pro version (before it was colour-coded) as the Mini is painful to use at 5 Nm and higher due to the smaller body, but it might be OK if it's the 4 Nm version.
it has a huge design advantage in that it isn't adjustable.
Would be interesting to know if Park Tool (and other manufacturers) have a recommended calibration maintenance schedule for their torque wrenches and what that process entails.
Park Tool has a guide on how to send their applicable torque tools back to them for recalibration. I want to put its URL here, but I'm afraid the comment will be deleted automatically for some reason (it happened to me a few times, all of them were safe links). It's in their website's Support section under Services.
I've seen techs who will click the wrench 3 times. I was hoping you would do the same on your setup to see if that just further tightens the target, which I suspect would happen.
*
Spam-torquing does result in a higher final tightening torque, one of my ex-colleagues does this and it drives me crazy every time I hear him do it. Worse, he also does it while choking the tool, which results in an even higher final tightening torque. Worst of all, he's a shop manager that works on bikes who supposedly has worked longer than I have and age-wise, we're not far off from each other. I dare wager any proper bike technician in Europe will shake their heads if they get to see how he torques down fasteners.
The way I do it, at most, I torque a second time about a second after I torqued the first time for the purpose of double-checking my torque application, no more than two to three clicks, but never all at once.
test the AMD Threadripper CPU torqkey
i could be wrong, but i feel like the part where you demonstrate that the torque key is length-independent doesn't really add up. i think to test that, you would need to fix one end of the wrenches together and only grip the other end. because what you did was you extended the grip out in both directions and pulled on both ends, so the effective turning point stayed in the middle.
I wonder how accurate the torque key that came with AMD threadripper processor are
That was fun
I'm SURE that you're already all over this, but I was always told to store an adjustable torque wrench unloaded as storing it loaded can affect the accuracy over time. I guess it fatigues?
I always do. I think the assumption is the spring could permanently stretch if left in tension. I’ve never tested this though. Maybe I should leave a torque wrench set to max torque for a month and check accuracy…
Yeah, exactly!
Might be worth ruining a cheap torque wrench for science. 🤷🏻♂️
Standard practice. However, Norbar (British torque tool manufacturer) tested for spring fatigue if stored at higher settings and found that the wrenches stayed within accuracy tolerances. It was a small sample size and Norbar is not recommending abandoning that practice.
Was the Park tool seemingly less accurate because of the way the force is set? You are kind of guessing what the marks are indicating. Seems like you could have tweaked the setting slightly (yet still looking like it was set to 5 nm) and gotten a different result. I know that wasn't the focus of this video and it was cool to see the accuracy and design of the "cheap" tools. Thanks!
It's good to know that with the Park Torque wrench you need to use the handle. I didn't know that, although it's what I have always done because....well....handle...LOL
I think they tune 5 nm keys to be more like 5.3 because it decays in time. And it is better to have little bit extra torque on screw than having less then specified after 3-5 years of use.
Like a fixed and variable pipetter
Was your TW-5.2 that inaccurate all this while?? I wasn't expect something like that.
It would be interesting to know the effect of doing multiple clicks on one of these torque keys.
Multiple “clicks” essentially becomes an impact wrench without the ugga-duggas.
usually the tolerance is +/- 1 nm. and i will under torque and set 4 nm for a 5 nm for safety.
I think tolerance is usually a percentage of desired torque. I wouldn’t recommend under torquing on purpose
Torque wrench can be calibrated, it it's been used a lot it will create a tolerance and it should be calibrated with a test rig like the one you have
Is it less accurate or is the meter reading the overstroke?
Hard to say. The newer key is definitely crisper than the worn in one, so that could have something to do with it
Was thinking more about the tension wrench as the result is around ten percent but it has a longer lever so any overstroke would be amplified.
For me, newton meters measures how many meters I can travel on my bike for every Fig Newton I consume.
Can you test the wera torque wrench, they are very popular
Would love to. Kinda pricey tho
Do you have your park tool torque wrench calibrated annually? I’d have to look it up but I think the variance you saw is actually within spec.
One thing you didn’t point out is that most adjustable torque wrenches can and REQUIRE calibration on a regular basis.
On the other hand, click style torque wrenches have a limited lifespan and can not be calibrated. They are disposable. Most manufacturers do give a lifespan but no one is going to keep track of that so all you can really do is check them against a known calibrated wrench or torque tester like the one you have to know when you toss them.
I actually did send the park tw5.2 back when it stopped audibly clicking. They said that’s normal, but I really prefer the haptic click. I switched over to the new Feedback Range tool and I really like it
@@TheBikeSauceinteresting. Park and most manufacturers recommend sending in for calibration annually and it usually costs about 20 bucks.
The park tool torque wrench is not a calbrated torque wrench, go by a descent calibrated one like a snap-on or norbar torque wrench. Then do the testing.
Adjustable tools will always be more difficult and expensive to produce with the same consistency of a single-setting tool.
With that torque meter, couldn't you just find the optimal hand position with the Parktool to get 5nm? Seems like you would get closer to 5nm if you positioned your hand closer to the tail. Just a thought, thanks for sharing.
The holding point is in the middle of the handle, where the girth is at its biggest. I don't know how his TW-5.2 was stored or how long it was used, but that's already more than the usual +/-4% accuracy, it's almost 12% over.
That’s a great thought, actually. It’s possible the center of my hand was at the middle of the handle, but that actually means I would have been chocking up just a bit due to the width of my palm perhaps explaining the high readings
That's exactly what I thought. Maybe it's designed for a smaller hand that's back a little further than he tested, or possibly the grip has even moved. Or it obviously could have just been damaged over time. As a length dependent torque wrench though, I'm surprised they don't have a marking for the exact point that they design it to.
20 usd for budget, I use a 15 usd for sub-budget wrench. Cheaper and cheapest.
And I asked a mechanic, the said the entry level torque has about 300 - 500 clicks life-time. Well, I decided to retired it after 5 or 7 bike installed.
Fixed torque wrenches in general are much more likely to be accurate than widely adjustable wrenches
Overtime, yes. They also never need calibrating. Prestacycle said when the logo is worn out, you can replace it since it would've torqued thousands of fasteners by that time.
You kept applying Torque after the Ratchet slipped. You can see it Frame by Frame. The Park Tool one hast the biggest Lever , thats why it was so unaccurate. You just kept it moving after the slip. Maybe apply the force with some kind of Clamp so it doesnt keep pushing.
Can you check my method? Kitchen scale on the fixed lenght lol.
It is not "oh" it is zero lol. Good review, something I was curiuous about as well.
random theory on why the keys are more consistent than full-range wrench: not based on concrete evidence but shot in the dark gut instinct... the adjustability is the devil in the machine so to say, the "proper wrench" relies on more complex correlated mechanical spring actions to go from 2-14Nm (if I googled the correct model) where as the key style is "set in stone" so to say, so less moving parts needed without adjustability.
in short; less moving parts = less compounding backlash due to mechanical tolerances
From what I remember adjustable torque wrenches can be calibrated and it should be done periodically.
@@guycxz That too, from wear+tear as well as tolerances, but in short less moving parts = more reliable mechanism (in the most simplistic of approaches) Of course there are exceptions to that, but again just a gut-instinct approach to it.
I have the same Tekton one he showed in the beginning and its only accepted +/- 4% or so, which is perfect for DIYers and low-grade use shall we say, because bolts themselves have their own tolerances 50 lb-ft of torque vs 51.78 really isn't going to make a difference in daily life. But they do offer calibrated
Does it really matter?
Why you dont talk about the lubrication on the threads? That is much more important variable. Sry for mí terrible english.
Cool video. I think your link dependent test on the park tool was flawed. You appear to yank down with your finger when you put it in the middle. And you very very slowly applied it when you put the extension on. I'm not saying there isn't an length effect but I think you exaggerated it massively in your video. I also think the torque keys that are lost motion at the torque setting are a lot easier to get right for most people, over pushing the clicker types to get a higher rating is extremely common. Granted your video illustrated the point, If you want fasteners tighten the most precisely then you need a tool that you can do that with repeatedly.
Nice. I get what you’re saying, but it physically takes a lot more force to click the wrench when you choke up, and conversely, a lot less when there’s an extension on it. Anyways, the length dependency is shown mathematically in a previous video; this was just a demo showing the phenomenon
The clicking of the "auto focus" feature of your camera is really annoying, once you notice it 😅
Good video even for non bike people like me.
We’re amateurs over here! 😆 sometimes I don’t take the time to set up the lav, and this is the result
>sample size of 1-2
That makes 2 Park tools I’ve been disappointed by …
why did you destroy the older one that was more accurate?
For science
When my Park wrench exploded, pieces falling out of the head, I replaced it with one from Shimano Pro. My seatpost clamp broke using the Park. I’ll never buy another from Park.
Yes, they are accurate enough.
Adjustable torque wrenches are often way off at the lower side of their specified range.
I kind of want to make this video too 😆
Did you purchase the torque meter?!? That’s like 3k
Not that much 😆
Also torque wrenches are not as accurate in the top and bottom 20% of their range. The closer you stay to the middle of their torque range, the more accurate they are!
Dang this would make another video I should do… 😆
great video, but you dont have to shoot everything on a fully open aperture. everything is super blurry, focus point is floating and it's hard to watch