how was tf2's art designed so well?
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2019
- tf2's design process
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And this game is like 10-11 years old? The design theory was way ahead of its time, matching/surpassing even modern games
Necrons were pretty ahead of their time too ;^)
I only started playing it in 2016, and nobody ever told me it was released in 2007, so I just presumed it was newly released... I am mind blown.
@@RH-ry8ve 2007*
nah fam, TF2 is about 12 years
turning 13 this october
It helps that the source engine is amazing
Now I understand why it is so hard for me to spot enemies in other games while I don't have problems in TF2. Great, well-thought design. As a colorblind person I appreciate efforts of the design team. Thanks Shounic for your video
Characters blending in with the environment was probably intended design choice (CS:GO, Apex Legends, Overwatch, etc.) but I really hate it.
It's really amazing how I could casually play a game of TF2 and can play at a faster pace than other games where it forces me to slow down and take in the environment to find enemy players. This is one of the reason why I hate battle royales.
Well I can understand for csgo but I don’t think that it was intended for the characters to be hard to discern or notice in most games. Ow literally displays enemy health and color because it would probably be impossible to notice them without it.
@@iUseDemFrapz Now that I think about it, Overwatch has no business trying to blend their characters to the background lmao. I just realized it was supposed to be a class-based shooter, and seeing the models is top priority.
Unless you're a 2fort sniper.
How do you tell the difference between the RED and BLU players if you are colorblind?
TF2’s Player models are so well designed that even if you riddle them with hats and cosmetics you can still tell them apart from each other and identify them easily
This.
Compared to overwatch skins where a legendary mccree standing next to some other legendary skin for S:76 at a moment's glance you're not sure what you're fighting.
I don't play tf2 for 3 years and I see some thing running at me with hats I've never seen before and immediately I know it's a soldier
@@callumstrachan4774 100% when I started playing again there were so many cosmetics that took me by surprised but never once did I not know what class was using that hat
I think the unique animations of each class help a lot with that
Banana suit: are you challenging me?
@@Ryan-op7yd I agree. In my opinion the character animations play a huge role in helping them be easily recognizable. Every class has a very distinct way of running around and jumping, and since players are rarely stationary, that helps you identify them when they're in motion. The way Demoman is bending down over his launcher, they way scout bends forward and swings his legs like a cartoon character, the back-bent Heavy who's balancing weight of his gun, the funky swinging soldier walk cycle...
tank was my favorite character, it's a shame it didn't get into TF2.
@@mobbdeep615 No, I mean the main battle tank.
Well, Heavy is the closest you'll get, I guess
Soldier's tank taunt?
Does the tanks in MvM count?
At least he got a new role in Left for dead
So i wasn't the only person who thought Seeing shit On Overwatch was impossible
what do you mean? I see nothing but shit in overwatch
@@aronsz lmfao
@Penta AnimsTM Well, it is difficult seeing something that isn't in the game
@@hyoroemonmeto6874 *wellbyeah*
@Eric Miret wat
"Team fortress 2 is a timeless masterpiece "
-Lazy Purple
Shiro Tagashi so we don’t care about the crappy quality of a game. We just enjoy it even if it is buggy?
Edit: I’m not saying this because I hate tf2, I actually really love the game and it is so fun
@@josephharrd9459 tf2s quality is great
What did you not understand by watching this video?
@@josephharrd9459 you need a new computer and new settings
The Arizona Ranger I actually have a really powerful computer, so I want tf2 to have a realistic style so it doesn’t look like it was made in 1950s and so it can run properly on my computer
@@josephharrd9459 It was made in 2007, hence "timeless masterpiece"
Wait so the thumbnail is gaben painting tf2 art using a knife with the blood of his employees on it? That's what I call well researched
Lmao back-chan
"My favorite class is the Spy."
Hearing about how the game's character design progressed so quickly and being based off of another artist's work is super interesting. Great video man!
Why I had to search comments for 5 minutes to find you
Why does this only have 2 Replies lol
Nowdays almost everything is based off another artist's work, be it consciously or unconciusly.
@@Anomen77 that’s always been true
you fell off pyro joe
Honestly, I notice this when I play ANY other shooter. It's extremely difficult to see other players against the chaotic background or whatever else is going on. They just blend in too much.
Not even shooters, have you ever seen a big fight in league of legends? Theres so many effects in this game you sometimes cant recognise the characters (and the massive amount of skins doesn't help)
@@asdifikult ive been playing lots of borderlands TWO lately and it really nails this, tho from what ive seen from one and three not so much
Maybe it's because Borderlands is made by Gearbox, which I think worked closely with Valve in the past. Maybe some of their design philosophies transferred over.
SneakyCnut ofc you can? maybe youre just bad at the gamr
@@asdifikult so sad it got lost in 3 again
I definitely feel this when going on other shooters, in apex legends I swear the characters blend into the environment and it's hard for me to see them. few games match tf2 in how easy on the eyes the design is
yeah it's like guessing who's that pokemon when u play every shooter game outside of tf2 and overwatch, instead with tf2 even the voices only are recognizable
With Apex Legends, it's a bit more understandable, because it has a large map and a lot of mechanics rely on steath.
I have this same sort of problem playing plants vs zombies garden warfare 2, everything just blends in and I can't see where any enemies are and then suddenly I die to one of their instakill abilities or something.
@@sammichu1906 I thought this game was mega dead at this point
@@sammichu1906 I meant PVZGW2.
I know that tf2 is still alive.
When Overwatch came out and everyone said that this game will definitely kill tf2, I knew tf2 will eventually outlive it, as it did to many other games.
It’s actually really impressive that TF2s artstyle, gameplay, and graphics still uphold even compared to next gen titles of today. Really goes to show you sometimes simplicity is better than clutter.
Simplicity and *style.* TF2 has iconic, recognizable design, games like Apex and Valorant are so confused and inconsistent in their design choices, especially with their characters
TF2 just has a style that is timeless because it doesn't have to be "future" sort of style, and since its set in the past that style will keep existing, even with the crazy cosmetics.
the problem with overwatch is that while the characters have distinctive silhouettes, the game itself is particle effect hell. used to be even worse in the beta, almost to the level of lawbreakers. Thankfully a red outline on enemies and blue chevron on allies kinda fixes this.
Honestly, i don't know about how it was in beta, but i'm thankful overwatch has so many particle effects, they are all distinct and really help at recognizing what abilities are being used. The voicelines and sound effects also help a lot. It might seem like screen clutter, but it has it's gameplay purpose
@@doublesystem9790 all of the particle effects and voicelines are helpful, but sometimes it really does feel like a Mish mash of things that you feel the need to keep track of if you wanna live.
I mean, they really are helpful in determining who's shooting you, but your mind is probably trying to calculate fifty million ways for you to not die to the absolute cluster fuck going around in one screen. Only to end up dying either way.
Yeah I don’t know why he chose Overwatch as a bad example. Although TF2 will remain the king of visual ques, Overwatch isn’t far behind and it’s easy to discern things just with audio. Both of these are incomparable to the visual muddle of things like apex.
In Overwatch I find myself intentionally BLOCKING my vision so I can see teammates and revealed enemies more clearly i.e. as just a team-color silhouette.
You know they failed the core visual clarity when they just resort to drawing a big red "KILL" outline on the enemy
Let me get this straight; they even thought about colourblind people, to recognise the team they're on. That's some dedication right here.
man, i've never actually heard moby talk before - great insight into the design philosophy behind this game. people talk about tf2's artstyle a lot, and it's so iconic and well-executed i think it'll continue to be discussed for a few more years to come. i never knew about the posterization thing and wow, it is something super-smart to consider.
great little video and your graphic design work never fails to please either.
mads great points
TF2’s such a visually interesting game, it definitely deserves the attention it’s still getting despite being more than 10 yrs old now.
Oh hey, I recognize you
Watching gameplay of Overwatch, I'd always noticed how it was really hard to tel what was going on. I'd kinda chalked it up to me just not having played it before, but I couldn't shake the feeling something was off. It's good to know that it's more the fault of the game's design
For another example, the original Halo: Combat Evolved was amazing at helping to distinguish enemies from the enviroment. The environments in that game were (mostly) natural or dull colors. The textures for the enviroment were also really simple and blurry. The enemies on the other hand were brightly coloured and wore reflective and detailed armor that stuck out like a sore thumb, but made it incredibly easy to identify threats quickly. The fact that enemies exclusively use energy weaponry that emits bright and vibrant particles and that they bleed really saturated and distinctive colors of blood further helps to solidify this even further.
Overwatch does compensate pretty well though. All the characters have a limited set of abilities that you can remember and predict (that goes into the playstyle itself) and they still have recognisable silhouettes.
idk about the whole OW and fortnite thing
In OW they literally have outlines, bright red for enemies and light blue for allies
And in fortnite, you're not meant to see people that easily, that's the point, it's a battle royale
Also, in OW silhouettes are imo just as recognisable as in TF2
@@boar6615 I agree. They go about it differently, but they manage.
"An iconic character is a character that you recognize from their silhouette"
-Sakata Gintoki, Gintama
Man of culture
Gintaman! Gintaman!
This just made me think of The Witcher. Geralt definitely fits this quite ell.
I see, so this was actually wise words from sorachi A.K.A author of Gintama
@@pikachubolt2001 it's basic design theory
That's actually a very well edited video! Nice touch on the points that people never think about.
Hey dewiill im here noice me
@@girthymilk yep me not you go away
hey dudes. lately i've had no time to do any editing. been super tied up with family matters. it's important stuff so i have no choice :(
forgive me for being slow!
thanks everyone for sticking around either way, and i hope you will continue to look forward to future videos :)
You are the best
bro i want my trip to pen island give
You mean the Kool kids Klub?
oh my god rasist
In the end you just picked pictures of tf2 characters standing still by a wall and compared them to big mid fight situations in overwatch.
Like your point is right but that has to be the worst way to be "impartial" when comparing
0:47 Ah yes, the 3 genders
Man, Woman, Alien.
Man,Woman,Pyro
@@minaisloading Pyro is a man
@@elfascisto6549 is he?
@@pliniomelo6295 yes
Halo also applies some of these principles (specifically Halo 3). The spartans are almost always easy to see and identify from great distances. Also, a lot of alien designs are distinct and unique so you know exactly what to prepare for in an upcoming firefight against the covenant. I was surprised when playing games like Borderlands where it is nearly impossible to identify enemies from great distances because a lot of the enemies are very samey looking.
However, it should be noted that TF2 is a game where visibility and clarity is important. In a game like Battlefield it is supposed to feel more realistic and not being able to spot enemies is what makes it tense. You walk out into an open field and see no one but then are immediately shot down. The visual design should benefit the gameplay. Not all games should follow the TF2 rules to color and lighting.
"Getting the impression of the detail is important, but not actually these small, little noodley bits." And then the bit about designing in black and whites first----lot to learn from. subbed because you find good shit and have a soothing nerd voice.
I can't believe how spoiled we are with TF2 and visual clarity. I would often go into other games, intently staring at everything, yet still not being able to tell where anything was, even enemies right in front of me. The realistic shooters tend to be the biggest perpetrators of this as the grey dirt-colored soldiers look the same as the gray dirt environment, which is kinda the point but is frustrating from a gameplay perspective.
TF2, on the other hand, allows me to understand what was going on from a single quick glance.
after being so used to tf2 it gives me a headache sometimes just trying to figure out whats happening in other games lol
That colour saturation is such a great design choice. I'll keep that in mind for projects of my own.
ah yes, my favourite class.
*_T A N C C_*
gender*
@@catnipluver class*
@@justeasygamer7989 gender*
@@gil_11 class*
@@justeasygamer7989 gender*
TF2's canonical time frame makes so much sense when matched with its art style, as it's basically straight out of itself. It feels like it just took the art of the 50s and brought it to life.
Technically the game is set early 60s but the style was in then
@@seronymus Actually late 60's to early 70's lore -wise.
@@emperorfaiz Yeah ,1969 ,and MVM happening in 1972
I’ve been seeing a lot of recommended Tf2 stuff lately. I am happy and hoping for a rebirth of Tf2’s popularity.
TF2 has been and will always remain popular until the day they decide to make TF3.
Spotlight fallacy.
@@Onimirare
You don't understand, man.
Every valve game that ends with the number 2 refuses to die.
@@smileydog5941 vale dosent know what 3 is
@@smileydog5941 then they will make tf2^2 since the 2 in tf2s name is so iconic
wow those silhouettes are pretty neat
Only in tf2 where you could have a team full of heavy and no one would be mad
Sometimes i managed to make everyone pick heavy, by eating sandwiches, then other people joined, and then i asked everyone in team for rush
@@tedwink6652 Make the whole team play spy and call it the French revolution
This is what I love about valve games. They put so much thought and care into every single area of the game, that every part of it feels equally important.
Artifact lol
then you play cs:go and notice that without upping the saturation in nvidia panel and increasing brightness in dark areas with monitor settings on some maps enemies blend in so well it gives one team a clear advantage
wow, this is amazing. i love tf2's design, and you explained the greatness of it in depth really well. many things in this video are new to me. thank you so much for making this
While you were overall correct in your statements and observations, one note i'd like to make is with the "threshhold tests". Most of the other games were tested in scenes of action with particle effects being present, while TF2's screenshots were largely just characters standing still, no particle effects, and often close up with a wall directly behind them.
Again, your points were still correct, but the presentation of test materials isn't balanced.
Yeah that was the one part of the video that irked me, it's not really fair to show tf2 screenshots of a single character standing in front of a white wall with a front on camera angle then compare it to an overhead shot of two full teams in the middle of a firefight
Well i do understand where you come from, but if you were to take pictures of battles in tf2, you could still atleast make out what characters are fighting who, unlike other games which are rather “particle heavy” but then again, thats just me, maybe you think OW or fortnite has clearer vision
Good point
@@yesno8273 You're right but the point is still that shounic did not show those action moments. TF2 has those "WTF is going on??" moments at times in battles, especially if you're new to the game. Overwatch is more particle heavy but it takes more time to get used to since the game design was not entirely made to be perfectly visible at all times and Fortnite, well, you're supposed to search and focus in your surroundings, it's a battle royale
Because masterpieces always makes the best art.
Damn right.
Shut up furry
Ahh yes the floor here is mad of floor
@@jetpilot3423 I see regular old 50s style bullying is still alive and well on the internet.
@@jetpilot3423 bruh what is bad with being a furry? (But yeah, his pfp is weird lol)
Hi this is Gabe Newell, Team Fortress 2 great design I’m very proud of you. - 2007
0:25 how god created the universe
Ahh yes, the good ol' knife waving trick. I wonder what tier they are
I really like this video because it really helps me as an artist
Wait a minute...
YOU'RE NOT THE REAL SOLARLIGHT
Is this the impostor from amangus?
Your underrattion annoys me. You are literally making better videos than most big tf2 youtubers. And even with little to no time to edit, you are still posting very well polished videos. I admire you, bro.
I never really thought about this sort of thing before. Now that you point it out, I do notice myself having a harder time seeing characters in other games. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why it lasted as long as it did.
While the comparison between TF2 and Overwatch was good, I have to say Overwatch is far from being the worst offender of visual clutter. Atleast there are outlines there. In Apex I literally could not see players when I had all graphics on low (which was a necessity for decent FPS because EA has shit optimization). No outline OR visual clarity. This kind of stuff is the reason why I can't even play competitive realistic shooters.
Good artists borrow, great artists steal. The game is a Mona Lisa of our time.
2:40 weaponary
so not only is tf2 a great game but also a great piece of art
incredible
I cannot stress how good this video is. It integrates the art fundamentals in a way that is really relatable and makes a lot of sense.
A lot of overwatch has to do more with audio game sense rather than visual. Every character has a unique sound for ability’s, ultimates, primary fire, secondary fire. Hell, once you play Overwatch enough you can tell a character just from their footsteps. Even with that said, simply putting a filter that averages colors to black or white has very little to do with how well you can visually discern characters.
Yo this video is amazing! I subscribed to you last week and I was not expecting such a high quality video essay! I also learned a lot even though I've been playing and watching videos since 2012.
Thank you for this amazing video. The research put into it was good too. It's awesome seeing all the thoughts behind designs and just how well made the characters are. The cool part is how much the silhouette distinction is used through multiple facets of media, such as how animation strongly relies on clear readability. This game is great with the animation as well, where you can tell who the character is and what they're thinking just by the movements and posing.
this is a really cool and informative video
6:10 holy shit that is so clever. i would have never noticed that but at the same time i also do without knowing.
I remember that one of the artists on overwatch said they care more about silhouette more than anything else but i guess the game just has too much information that it needs to tell you at once so everything just gets drowned out, although fortnite wasn't designed with pvp in mind but it was designed with pve in mind it does show how well valve made tf2 a pvp game in comparison to a pve
I would like to mention, not to take away from the tf2 points, but the screen shots of other shooters are in action, mid fight screen shots, where as tf2 pictures are still shots where the mercs are standing still.
Really well done video Shounic! Can’t wait to see what else you put out!
As the video went on, I started to realize how brilliant the game designers are. The interview featured really started to make me think, then how the materials in the game matched the freaking feeling of the colors. That just blew my mind, like how I never saw any of this detail. Team Fortress 2 is a game that is so simple it's incredible. I don't think any newer games could use the saturation effect done with the characters, that's just mind blowing.
damn, i love jc, his art is a super big inspiration for me so hearing him being the main art inspiration for tf2 kinda left me shocked
great video, Loved how in depth you went!
This is fantastic. Brings a new light into my graphic design choices, thank you.
That's one of my biggest gripes with most modern games. The emphasis on making games pretty to appeal to a majority of people, rather than implementing elements barely noticeable elements that allow for a great gameplay experience. I wish more development teams put more thought into this.
Visuals are such an important part of a game, but not in the way most people make it to be.
The HUD in TF2 is also very simple and clear, with all you need. No extra bs.
really love this video. interesting, and also insightful for myself as a visual artist. would like to see a video on cosmetic design theory and how that's changed over the years if you could find enough info
Shounic you are so good at this, keep going, even if it's not about tf2 or videogames. Make it your job
Edit: Also if you could ever do one more video for b4nny with a rotten dank thumbnail, that'd be cool
this is y its a hat simulator. so the design of the bodies wont be messed with.
I will say that the better clarity and visibility is party due to the rim lighting shader applied to the characters, helping them to stand out more from the environment.
This is really helpful for people studying character design. Thanks for the informative and fun video, man! :)
It's really odd how many so-called "high-level competitive games" are already inferior in how competitively viable it is by design. You cannot counter something you cannot see, but this is something most game developers ignore so they can make their game look as flashy and high-end as possible. Forgetting that they're making a game instead of a graphical circus.
I haven't played TF2 in years but every time I come back to look at the visual design, it still holds up incredibly well. Moby Francke's art does absolute wonders for the game's art style and I genuinely don't think they could've chosen anybody better for the job. His art is just so good on every level
This is actually good help for character designing and selecting color pallets in general.
I can’t believe I binged all your videos while forgetting to subscribe! The videos you make are super high quality and you really do your research!
+1
"You could win a trip to pen island" god damnit
Good art styles NEVER age. And TF2 is proof of that.
Your editing is really good! You could probably make a TV series with that level of skill.
I did an essay on Leyendecker's art for a school project about a year ago. I still keep getting surprised at just how many of my favorite pieces media are inspired by his work. No doubts as to why 😁
As someone who gets visually overstimulated very easily, I seriously appreciate how simple tf2’s art style is compared to pretty much all modern FPS games. Every time I see footage of overwatch or fortnite for example, I immediately get turned off by how much is going on. In an effort to be more modern, they add all of this extra visual information that ends up just being really distracting
well that explains why whenever im playing fortnite and overwatch, i get those "Where tf did you come from" moments
The interview footage of Moby Francke looks CG. He's too shiny and smooth!
Keep up these videos,its nice to see tf2 in detail
This video: *exists*
LazyPurple: Theyre so
T H I C C
7:32
Vietnam vet: that's all I ever wanted, I'll I ever needed to hear.
Never knew about the threshold one. Great vid
That was super interesting, thank you!
randomly popped up in my feed, super happy it did
I'm starting to regain the love I have for this game. Surely one of the best games ever made.
Wow, this a high quality video. Well done dude!
Now people who make black and white images for tests need to follow this rule
Tf2's design choice is so much better compared to other fps games. I often find myself not seeing enemies in CSGO because they blend with the background.
and all these advanced design features and rules are thrown to the trash by: non valve hats, new non valve maps, weapon skins, compromising graphics settings because you need a new worksation pc to run at max graphics, and many more
more like valve being dumb/greedy and adding extremely stupid hats cause they know those sell well
nobody held a gun to their head and said "banana hat, now"
@@the_Red_Star you can't blame a corporation for monetizing a free product
@@BrainPowerSubs I think the problem isn't the monetization, but rather the fact that in order to attract people who like to grab attention, they are compromising the game's art. Dota2 has the same exact problem.
Excellent video dude, thank you for all this great info.
How do I love the character design...It's realistic and stylish at the same time. And each one has their own personality and unique appearance....
This was super interesting! More reasons to love this game. I don't regret at all spending 2000 hours of my life in it and I plan on continuing haha Good video!
1:35 I want that lmg as a usable weapon
@@bobmcboblin tbh, it could be a good alternative to the minigun
Like, you can shoot and move without sacrificing your speed while not revving it up, but comes with lower damage and firerate.
Thanks for this great video, It was very informative and inspirational to improve my art.
ya know this actually helped out in a different game for me to understand why it was so hard for me and my friend to focus on the game with out shooting each other on accident.
Borderlands 3 being a bit too saturated and in an even color shades when setting it in monochrome or in black and white shows it indeed is both ways way too bright and way too dark in the wrong places just like overwatch.
thank you for that btw!
In the interest of being impartial you did also use screen shots of TF2 with characters standing around in front of a wall and then for over watch full on battle scenes with a million explosions and skill effects lol.
1:33
GOD i love the original pyro design
its so much better than one we currently have
remember, this game was made years ago, so they had less tech, that's why there are no female characters, 1st, the time of the game, obviously, men were only allowed to fight, but memory, as in, computer memory, there wouldn't be enough and TF2 would be slow if there were more detail, and also hitbox sizes, and that would change the comp and casual meta
@@titanlord9267 I don't really care about the gender im more referring to his upright posture and not looking so round and doppy .
@@GiRR007 yeah, but memory, it's an old game, so it had to be done, and then adding gibs, particles, and physics, and then the final artstyle, and also the weight of the weapon, a flamethrower would be heavy if you had to carry one
Hearing Gaben's commentary dialogue rearranged takes me back :)Eeeeveryone used to do that
Simplicity is what makes this game so appealing to look at. Even in the chaos of pills and bullets and unusual effects, everything is very clear and the colours work well
Good video my guy.
This was a weird thing I have never even noticed until I stopped playing Tf2 for like a year. I realized I cant sink my eyes into games that have too much detail even though it has similar gameplay mechanics as Tf2, I cant continously play for more than 2 hrs, Tf2 however, I can sink my whole day into without getting sick of it.
This is why I will always deem Tf2 as the best multiplayer shooter game of all time.
Moby Francke... Damn that was a really cool way of describing game art and all its consoderations.
I feel like this can be helpful for map maker. This video succeeds to show stuffs you gotta regard when making maps.
I wish we could redesign some hats to fit the artstyle more.
I wish they would remove all cosmetics.