History of the Monolithic Polymer AR: From Colt to KE Arms
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
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Today we are taking a look at the history of the monolithic polymer AR-15 lower receiver. By "monolithic" I mean a design which integrates the receiver, grip, and buttstock all into a single unit, rather than the various attempts to simply make a standard AR receiver out of polymer. This is important because the original design of this part does not allow for it to be simply copied in polymer, as the result will be too weak. However, polymers (specifically glass-filled Nylon) have many beneficial properties including light weight, flexibility, and rapid manufacturability which can be harnessed for an AR lower when the design is made to properly accommodate the material's reduced strength compared to aluminum.
This concept began with Colt in the late 60s or early 70s, and we have one of Colt's original prototypes to take a look at. Unfortunately, Colt's material was not up to the task, and the idea was quickly abandoned. It was brought back by the Cavalry Arms company in 2000, who would build a successful line of monolithic polymer receivers in two major configurations until 2010. At that time legal problems forced the owner to surrender the company's FFL, and the tools to make the receiver were bought by GWACS Armory. GWACS left the design unchanged and restarted production briefly, and their inventory of receivers lasted until 2018, when the new interest in the product form the "What Would Stoner Do" project on InRangeTV caused them to sell out.
At this point, GWACS was unable to restart production and eventually KE Arms decided there was sufficient market demand to justify the cost of developing a new monolithic polymer receiver that would finally fix the problems inherent to the Cavalry Arms design (as produced by both Cavalry Arms and GWACS). Their new KP-15 lower has now provided the benefits of polymer material that were unavailable to Colt 50 years ago with the engineering that was never properly done on the CavArms/GWACS receivers.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740
Petition for glow in the dark wwsd2020 lower
You know what I think would look clear if it were possible? Clear polymer AR lower
@@CowboybubPercussion They could call it the "New Clear" lower. Sounds just like Nuclear. :)
@@Ginrummy33 "AR-15 Lower Chrystal"
The KP15 lower is just that, the lower, it is a component of the WWSD project, not the project in and of itself.
+ bakelite plum
Only Ian could actually get the only transferable experimental polymer M16
That is seriously the most impressive part of this video. Especially since he pointed out their durability issues. Someone must not have shot it much. Being able to produce this for a video is clearly one of many miracles that gun Jesus has performed.
I believe KE Arms actually bought that one recently, so it probably wasn't too hard for him.
@@icwells still probably wasn’t easy for KE to source. I’d be intrigued to hear the story of how a government experimental gun ended up on the registry and to where it is now.
@@austincrowe5194 I’m guessing Colt was selling off their museum pieces and only keeping their number 1’s.
This channel becomes more of a resource on all things firearms every day. Ian has built something wonderful here, and as his platform has snowballed I would argue his ability to find these incrediblely rare pieces of firearms history has also snowballed to the point where only a few people on the planet have better access to rare pieces than he does. (and they probably don't share it with the world for free) Amazing time we live in, that a man with nothing but a webcam and a passion can achieve something like this.
The madman himself is now part of firearms history with the WWSD lower. How cool is that?
"If you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss also stares back into you."
I can't wait until an episode of Forgotten Weapons airs in which Ian McCollum refers to himself in the third person when explaining the origins of the WWSD KP-15 lower receiver. It'll be glorious.
Are they finally available?
@@tward7332 yep
@B real: Occasionally Ian discusses popular weapons as well. The Thompson submachine gun, for example-like the Chicago Typewriter will EVER be “forgotten”?
The entire WWSD project is shaping up to be a cool lesson in the modern aspects of... everything, really. CZcams, gun culture, social media, manufacturing, engineering, production, retail... Ian wrote a book or two somewhere in there... but between Forgotton Weapons and InRangeTV these guys cover quite a slice of a very dynamic and fast evoloving demographic. It's pretty interesting stuff from my living room anyways. Solid dudes those gents.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine i've yet to see a compelling argument for the forward assist. do you have one?
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Or alternatively... just push the bolt forward using the indentation on the BCG and your finger... Amazing how it happens to have the perfect shape for that to happen.
What if the bolt is hot after you’ve been shooting a lot, you say? Well odds are, most people that are shooting a lot and might have any issues will probably be wearing gloves anyways.
I have yet to hear of ANY cases where the issue couldn’t be just as easily solved by pushing the BCG forward with the finger versus using the Jam Enhancer, er, ‘Forward Assist’. I have heard many stories of the issues the Jam Enhancer has created, however.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine why couldn't that be solved with a dogear like on the BCG like an AK or just pushing forward on it with a gloved thumb if it gets hot?
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine
I thought the alibi argument for the forward assist was that one is able to ride the charging handle forward to reduce noise and then press the forward assist to make sure it's home.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine on the Galil ACE, there's a cutout in the receiver right in front of the dust cover to accommodate a side-mounted charging handle, and even the AR-18/180 has its charging handle on the BCG right in front of the dust cover. both guns have simpler solutions while not having the dust cover impede function.
i know that's kind of getting outside of the AR-15 realm of possibilities, but my point is that i don't really like the standard AR-15 charging handle on the back in the 1st place. hell, you can get a side-charging AR-15 upper today, which, in my uneducated opinion, obsoletes both the back-charging handle and the forward assist on the AR, despite the fact that guns already had dogears. maybe there's a point to having the back-mounted charging handle, but i don't like it or the forward assist.
Any other CZcamsr would have split this up into a week-long series and then tried to sell me a VPN service. The quality and consistency of your output is unrivaled. Great work!
And a wallet. And a watch. (But not spectacles or, one hopes, testicles.)
@@ZGryphon Or shaving and personal hygiene kits for your underwear region...
@@aaronorr5586 I have to admit none of the CZcamsrs I follow has tried to sell me tools for gentleman gardening as yet, although I wouldn't _entirely_ rule out Tyler Hoover trying it at some point.
Yes Ian is actually pretty great. I love how he just gets straight to the stuff we all want, deep firearms lore and nerdy technical details, with no flashy edits, no music, no intros, no paid promotions and no bad jokes or memes.
Let's not forget that other great cancer of youtube; Raid: Shadow legends
Seamless transition from episode of Forgotten weapons into a sales pitch. 10/10
They did try to promote another manufacturer, except they quit building their lowers.
Also Karl and Ian get nothing from the sales of lowers. Only complete WWSD builds. I’m sure Brownels and KE would prefer all rifles sold were complete but lowers only will still bring them profit, but nothing for Ian and Karl.
Seamless. Just like the new KP15 from KE Arms. Available now at Brownells. 😂😂
@@john-paulsilke893 it does look pretty cool though
Worked on me, I ordered 5
It's never ever too early to watch forgotten weapons.
I have to agree and also add I live about 20,000 km North but same time soon I really hope he doesn't wake up at 4:00 a.m. to upload these lol
@@dragofill2808 Lol I had the same idea. Hopefully Ian isn't pushing for the last tweak before he uploads in the wee hours of the night
Fax
When Gun Jesus posts we must watch .
Here here....
Here here
The KE arms lower is a beautiful piece of moldmaking, really impressive high quality finish. You guys did well when you agreed to work with them
KE did all the design and iterative work. Karl and Ian simply did the advertising. (Of course every part of the process was and still is important, but no one person is responsible and probably well over a dozen equally important people were involved especially the C&c guys.
@big cheese yes like China, number 1 in oppressing minorities, no wonder democrats love the CCP.
@big cheese Do I detect a lot of sarcasm? World peace has little to do with private gun ownership and much to do with state sponsored armies and regional warlords.
@@neovenom9833 The US has far and away the largest population of incarcerated people to have ever existed at any point in history, and minorities are extremely disproportionately represented in that population. Minorities are routinely harassed and killed without trial in the US by regime security forces.
You can criticize China for a lot of things, but if you want to talk about oppressing minorities you're throwing stones from a glass jail cell
Wait wait wait a minute Ian.. are you telling us there might be a glow in the dark version at some point?
That's so absurd as to be magnificent. I actually really want that
From Temple Arms.
@@RadioMartyT1B link ?
Why not, I've seen Hello Kitty ones...
Just put a Radioactive badge on your gunsafe and when someone opens up the safe they pretty much will never touch that one rifle! 😆
I think it's a credit to Ian's reputation as a historian that (even though he probably has a not small interest in seeing this company succeed) when he was talking about how "they really took their time to come up with the best product ever" I was nodding along like it was a description of Sam Colt toiling away to make uncopiable machine printings for his revolver cylinders.
When Forgotten Weapons saves a Weapon from being Forgotten...
I must say, the glow in the dark receiver has piqued my interest
I wonder what the minimum preorder number would be for them to consider it?????? Given the current state of the world not possible until 2022 at the earliest.
With how fast guns are selling, it could probably be available in a couple of months.
Just don't forget to put a radiation badge on your gun safe, just for you know, for reasons of spooking people or should I say Sheeple! 😆
They make glow in the dark paint. Perfect for the guy that wants to be the bait.
@@calvingreene90 I have used that glow in the dark paint for my iron sites and it's rather fragile.
Eugene Stoner blesses this video.
His ghost lives at Ian's.
*Jim Sullivan.
A small error in the manufacture of the colt polymer lower, those two halves were not actually welded together. It was injection molded as a single piece, so no post processing or "welding" together after the fact. The line you see between the two halves is referred to as the "molding split line" in injection molding.
I had a smile on my face when Ian brought out the 80% lower.
That "Light Sabre" joke at 19:50 hahaha. Never change Ian.
That polymer Colt does not have fencing around the magazine release button because it predates that development. The better comparison would be a Colt SP1 receiver.
As an owner of a CAV-15, I have been waiting for a video like this!
Edit: OMG, I had no idea that the GWACS was so rare! I bought one during the Great Gun Panic of 2013.
I have one in OD Green... that is 2 of 10k in existence. Just need about 9998 more responses.
Either way, that's a nice chunky step between trigger area and magazine release on the lower to separate the two. Though a bit of extra assurance surely won't hurt!
You maybe gonna get one of the new key arms receivers? To have what the cav arms evolved into?
@@marcusborderlands6177 Part of me is always tempted by the latest & greatest, but I assembled my "main" carbine on a conventional lower, and I got into braced pistols after I left CA in 2014. I'm not sure if I've ever fired my GWACS lower.
@@cymond well it's not as if it's a pricey investment for a little bit of fun. I believe it's 200 flat for the entire lower. Maybe just get it as a Christmas present to yourself?
Shouldn't a monolithic lower be made out of one stone?
Megalithic! :)
Or wood so you can grow your own receiver 😎
@@TuckerDale89 It's about the meaning: mono-lith-ic means one-stone-made
Of concrete. The artificial stone
Grug make best lowers.
Ahh, the ins and outs of injection moulding. Those problems are in every plastic manufacturer. Moulds are expensive, management does not want to buy new moulds. Product gets worse and worse with time. Flashing everywhere, etc,etc.
I've always found it interesting how the molds can wear out even though the fact of the matter is that the plastic materials are so much softer particularly obviously when the mold is flowing. A friend of mine works in the space or at least he used to, and he kind of explained how exactly the molds were down and so on, but still at first glance it just seems sort of odd..
On the other hand I'm talking to a screen that I hold that's able to decode my analog voice signal into a digital signal using a processor that is measured on the nanometer level to a server that then decodes my voice and types on my phone for me.
@@MCXL1140 The thing is that even soft materials can eventually wear down hard surfaces with time. Water can dig up rocks just by dripping on them for centuries. It's kinda the same process with plastics and metals. You also need a lot of pressure when you start injecting so it covers all the small places. In any commercial plastic injection machine, the force needed to keep the mould closed is massive, the closing mechanism is by far the most heavy part.
@@JavierChiappa yeah I like I said I'm aware of that stuff now it's just kind of like one of those things that feels bizarre initially until you understand more the details about it.
In stock at Brownells, the KE-15 Complete Lower $199.99
It's nice to see something In Stock these days.
A stock
in stock!
Check out KE Arms’ FB page-particularly their videos. They can crank these babies out in massive quantities for such a small arms manufacturer.
fb.watch/2bggm9dQSP/
Damm that's cheap!
Last time I bought a gun part this cheap it was a sporterized k98.
In Germany guns and parts are expensive. 😔
not anymore
Because there is no ammo to feed them
I don't think Ian tooted his own horn quite enough on the development of this project for this video. Not only a firearms scholar now, Ian, Karl, and Russel are now part of firearm history. It has been entertaining and educational to watch this happen, and I'm excited to be getting my own piece of this history soon via KE/Brownells. Bravo Ian!
Old days:
Today: "ATF seizes 3000 plastic assault rifles made entirely of plastic with plastic"
Glock 7. Porcelain gun. Costs more than you make in a month.
@@gfarrell80 Proof the Hollywood is both clueless and malicious.
Glock 7? Never existed. Porcelain? Pretty sure you can't make a gun out of porcelain, and why would you want to? Price? Glocks are usually under $500. Can go through a metal detector without being seen? Metal insides, metal slide, metal ammo.
"and a whole bunch of plastic ammo"
@@isaiahmiller9142 Ming dynasty: Hold my rice wine
there goes my Johnny-7
I suspect the material they were working with in the early 60s when they were developing the plastic parts was a compression molded sheet molding compound commonly known as 9063 Lytex. It is a long strand fiberglass in an epoxy matrix. It was very commonly used in aerospace at the time (still being used for legacy parts developed in that time period). they would have made closed compression molds for the halves and then bonded them together.
I am a mold maker's apprentice. Thank you for giving me a new rabbit hole to jump down. I'm always happy to find out about processes or materials I didn't know existed.
@@sheldoniusRex No problem. I was a production engineer for a company that made parts with that process (compression molding of sheet molding compound). the lytex 9063 material is from a mil spec that went back to the 50s. it is very strong and has better material properties than any injectable material due to the long fiber lengths. I believe this is the material Stoner used for the furniture on the original AR series and would be a great stock material. The disadvantage is low mold cycle times. the material is B staged and then fully cured under pressure and you can only cycle the mold a couple of times in an hour. there are many types of sheet molding compound on the market and we used to make our own. it is something that is relatively easy to get good quality parts from without the expense of injection molding.
"Your father's lightsabre. Not as elegant as the high-end stuff from the more civilised times."
"Gwacs Armory LLC We are and have remained in business. We will have lowers available along with some other new products very soon." From Facebook a few weeks ago. FWIW
"HMG is still and always has been, 100% dedicated to deliver the rifles to our customers who have been patiently waiting. " From Facebook several months ago.
They've been saying that since the original WWSD project.
The problem here is trusting things you read on Facebook.
It poped up q few weeks ago i thought it was funny at the time, knowing the ke lower just hit the market. Like I said FWIW
Yeah good luck
So Colt comes up with a good idea like the AR9, polymer lowers, etc. then other manufacturers make it better
I think the technological progress from such commerce is quite evident. This video demonstrates that nicely.
Id understand wanting a tougher rifle wheb youre fighting a war in vietnam. But what are these people doing with their guns? Throwing them on the shooting table?
@@natelav534 "If you're going to build a thing, build it well."
@@iLLeag7e If I wanted a well built firearm I would buy a better designed firearm than the AR15. The great thing about AR15 is that it is cheap and relatively simple to build. There are a ton of ways to design a better guy but it costs more.
That happens with everything
Do you know if there was any litigation over the Armalite
sales people making false declarations about the Cav-15 lowers?
That seems like a pretty easy tort.
Tracking number says my first MK3 lower is arriving at my ffl on Tuesday. Feel like an 8 year old waiting for Christmas.
ordered mine the 3rd and arrives Monday for mine
have fun with ya new toy
WFO my 2 are still in limbo I've had on pre order since they was listed to be made.
@@DB-yj3qc, I ordered two - the one on the way is a mil spec complete. I ordered one with the KE arms trigger and it isn’t coming yet.
The amount of detail provided is incredible. Ian is a gifted historian and gun nerd
Timestamps for folks on mobile or who want to jump to specific "major" sections:
00:00 Introduction
01:31 Colt prototype
10:54 Cavalry Arms CAV-15 MK1
15:53 Cavalry Arms CAV-15 MK2
22:48 Cavalry Arms pros/cons
30:15 KE Arms KP15
The Colt solution to the normal weakness of the front take down pin area is interesting, simple, and discrete.
I'd be interested in seeing those mentioned Colt prototypes with the optics and lasers.
I believe I've seen one of the laser integrated uppers for sale on Gunbroker last month actually.
Same
Insert 'Wanh-wanh' at 19:53...
I was gratified to hear Chris Bartocci mention that he has spoken with you, on one of his recent Small Arms Solutions Q&As. Though his perspective differs, I'm always happy to see civility among GunTubers.
Pity you couldn't sneak Karl's 'Icarus' Cav Arms receiver into the lineup. It illustrates perfectly just how much punishment a polymer lower can take!
I picked my kp-15 lower yesterday from my FFL and he asked if I was gonna do a wwsd build. y'all are truly everywhere and it's wonderful.
Bought KE Arms lower. Now waiting for the recommended upper setup.
i am using my A1 upper i cobbled together for my first build :) now about a thin barrel i can get the FSB pinned onto
nordiccomp.com/categories/nordic-components-nc15-extruded-upper-receiver-stripped/
Something slick sided like this. I use a DPMS with a 16" pencil barrel and a cheap carbon fiber handguard.
I'm running a 14.5 ELW with a 10" MCMR rail that I'd like to mate with one of these lowers.
I've been designing automotive injection molded components for 20 years... this video makes me wanna try to design one ofv these that actually performs as good as the standard ones
Thanks Ian! A couple months ago I built my own using a KE Arms lower and really like it so far. When you were talking about why Colt did not go further with the polymer monolithic lower, I thought you were going to say the confidence in a 'plastic' gun was too low to sell to DOD. I can remember in 1981, there were quite a few Viet Nam Vets still in the infantry while I was a young Marine and they talked about 'the plastic gun' (the name Mattel was mentioned) explaining they had jambs when it got dirty, so they would pick up an AK47 in battle and use it if one were available, saying those would function right out of a mud hole.
I qualified with the M16-A1 and in '82 was issued an A2 with the 3 round burst so I only knew the AR style and did well with it, shooting expert 5 times. Needless to say, I'm still a fan.
It's good you guys worked out the bugs and the reputation is much better with the KE Arms version. As of this week I've been running it through testing for just under two months with zero issues. Even on a hot 123F day here in the AZ Mohave Desert with it in direct sun, it performed well. That was probably my biggest concern. Good job!
My stripped black KP-15 will soon be in my hands from Brownells. Thank you, Ian, for all your hard work with InRange to get the WWSD Project to yield this new option for the 2A community!
@@j.bridges2921 The black mil-spec complete lowers are being made first and are shipping first.
@@j.bridges2921, their FB page says they're shipping the complete lowers with milspec triggers in black first, then the stripped lowers in black, then the FDE versions. So you and I should get ours before anyone who ordered FDE lowers, but after all those preorders for black completed lowers are shipped. Now that they're in full production, I bet we'll have ours before Xmas.
@@edwardx.winston5744 I hope you're right on that, have two on order. I'm looking forward to building a light weight 6.5 Grendel for deer and hog hunting and a 5.56 rifle too.
@@j.bridges2921 You’re thinking 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 Grendel is an AR-15 patterned cartridge.
@@j.bridges2921 Correcting you, 6.5 Creedmore, yes. 6.5 Grendel no. Two significantly different cartridges. 6.5 Grendel is based on the .220 (5.56x39) Russian case.
One of the reasons KE is able to do so much better is some of the guys who worked for Cav Arms now work at KE. Thus leveraging their experience, including with what didn't work, to make their first version genuinely better.
I'm not even into this look but curiosity got the best of me and I bought one of the KE Arms. I just got it yesterday and actually purchased it before I watched this video. Your video is very enlightening. I doubt I'll use it much but it is very cool and somewhat nostalgic as a soldier of the 80's who cut my teeth on the M16A1 and A2. Thanks for the video.
I got 5 kp-15 lowers this week and I put two together with 16" light pencil barrels upper. My two grandkids took their's to the range. The guns shot well and my two other grandkids are looking forward for their's.
It is interesting how many parts in the history of the AR-15 were before their time. The pencil barrel is another great example for that.
Trinity Ordnance in FW TX (was rumored to have) acquired a shipping container full of these Sabre defense marked cav15 lowers and sold them very cheaply a few years ago. My brother and I bought 6 for $120 total. Eventually they were just trying to get rid of them and were selling them 2/$20 during a Black Friday sale. They obviously sold them all. Love the builds I have done with them.
The flared magwell seems to make a good place go rest your trigger finger too.
Interesting history lesson. i still have my Cav15 Mark I in yellow (known back then as the Dewalt lower) and my pink "seconds" Mark II, both in unfired condition and with their respective color matching hand guard. But this seems an interesting piece that I will have to add to my collection
Either be 38 minutes late hitting the woods this morning, or save this video for later. Trying to determine if the deer can wait half an hour...
You wasted 5 minutes thinking and posting.
You knew they would wait, and they did!
Update: Tagged and cleaned deer- NOW i'm watching it. I had to get one last deer with my OLD lower- don't want it getting jealous when I replace it with a polymer wonder :-) It's been a good run Sig M400. But it's time to move on...
I love firearms history and Forgotten Weapons- but I still love using them like 10 percent more. I still feel like I cheated on Ian this morning.
@@mattfleming86 congratulations!
@@mattfleming86 well, You could not wait but you got your reward, one more congratulations! from me.
This reminded me of my grandpas Remington Nylon 66 from the late 60s.
Despite how unnecessary the ATF's order to more deeply imbed the serial number was, I'm glad they did it because it looks a lot nicer.
Heck yeah! Just got a KP15! Excited to see how it feels!
@@j.bridges2921 irk just ordered it yesterday. I get back to you
Spring loaded Skittles door!
I thought it was a cigar tube
mini snickers too
All extra compartments are for the OG battlefield pick me up, no not meth, skittles
Tac-snacs
Ian: - You can buy a light sabre -
Star Wars fan: - No, of course not -
Ian: Hold my polymer
I'll absolutely be purchasing one of these, not only because I love them, but to support Ian as well.
Ian doesn't get any financial incentive from the sale of KP-15 lowers.
Ian and Karl do get some royalty from Brownels for every complete WWSD rifle sold.
Waiting patiently for my KE lower looks like it will be worth the wait.
Gary, I got my shipping notification for my non-stripped kp-15 yesterday.
Me too. Since July
What's the weight gain on the KE arms one compared to the original M16, at the end of the day?
The KP15 completely stripped is 1.024 pounds. Complete with carbine buffer and all other lower components it's 1.70 pounds (+/- about 1 ounce depending on which FCG parts).
@@ForgottenWeapons and how does that compare to the weight of the original M-16? Obviously the current KP15 version is much sturdier, but is it much lighter too?
Grip angle? LOP? 80?
@@jsb21 ATF is super weird about 80% polymer as well.
@@jsb21 Oof, 13" LOP? Too big. Need to shorten that by a couple inches.
I almost got my hands on a glow in the dark one. I do have a swirl jobber though. When cleaning the molds between colors they use white plastic and run them through until they are clean white. So I have a blue and white swirl with an experimental serial number. I've built 5 of these guns now. I have the first gas operated .45 upper on a Cav Arms Gen II lower. I worked with Rudy at Macon Armory to develop it. And I've done one of these for a 50 Beuwolf. It didn't blow up so I have full faith in these lowers. If you run grease gun mags you'll need a Hahn block adapter.
Thank you for these piece on Monolithic polymer AR receivers (I hope I got that right). I am a novice enthusiast and I always thought polymer lowers and receivers were kind dumb and don't understand why manufacturers do it but after watching this and seeing how old the idea was and the steps taken to get the technology to where it is today, makes me appreciate them and not have a negative view on them as much as I use to.
Brownells: "KP-15 lowers now in stock"
Ian: "Hold my scotch and watch this"
For someone who is not familiar with AR-15 fire selectors, those selector markings on the colt lower (9:05) are highly confusing, bordering on gross negligence. :)
Looks like they had to move the semi marking to the bottom of the selector because they couldn't fit it above the selector where that pin is. Since this was a very limited run experimental version I expect that would have been corrected if it had ever gone into production. Normally the selector is pretty easy to understand. The little arrow points towards the mode it's set to.
I'm glad I saw this. I just ordered one of these a few hours before I saw this video and I wasn't sure how good the quality would be. Now I feel much better. I bought it because it was available now and it was light weight. I'm matching it up with a BRN-180S .300 Blackout 10" barrel upper receiver and will remove the buffer and spring for more weight reduction.
I never realized how a simple color change could affect the design so much I'm glad I got in on the initial tan lower pre order I believe KE was only selling the OD lowers complete because the different colored polymer caused tolerancing issues with the pin holes
I'm gonna buy my first AR15 today. It's gonna be a LWRC M6IC-DI.
Have fun with it. Good luck finding ammo.
@@2wheeleddemon999 Already got some
@@PewPewFreedom Hell yeah dude. Never thought I would like AR 15's but as soon as I built my first one out of boredom I haven't been able to stop. They are fun.
@@2wheeleddemon999 I don't know how long the American people can keep their AR15s.
@Another Shadow i type gonna all the time so stfu.
Thankyou for the information it was fun to witness and listen to the history of AR, material change and problems that came along with it how they try to solve it.
First off, another Top Shelf video by Ian. The last iteration of the product looks great. I am not a licensed user of Utube, and did not see one add in this whole video, which surprised me.
I was attacked by one.
Thanks for all you do Ian, haven't been able to support through patreon during some hard times but I just placed my order for a complete lower as much for how well made of a product it is as it is a token of appreciation for all you guys do for the community.
Ian does not get any money from the sales of KP-15 lowers.
Ian and Karl do get some royalty for every Complete WWSD rifle sold from Brownels
All the homies love forgotten weapons
"Mould designers are the unsung heroes of our time"
AvE, on a number of different occasions.
Also I would like to add that the issues displayed in the KAV-15 are not in my opinion entirely due to the technology not being ready. Look at power tool manufacture, while indeed it has improved a lot in recent years with regards to plastics, it has been way ahead of the terrible piece of amateur look moulding shown with the KAV-15 for at least 20 years. It comes down to the budget. Moulds for plastic, especially glass fibre filled plastics, are very very technical. The plastic changes dimension as it cools, and this must be taken into account in the actual mould. It's very hard to do, but totally worth it if you have a big enough market as you can then pump out huge volumes of light, robust and precise parts at minimal cost. Firearms are a small market compared to power tools so the R&D budgets are smaller too, especially in the civilian market. To me it's looking like it's becoming cheaper and easier to develop a high quality product in plastic now though and honestly that last lower is a thing of beauty. However Makita, Hilti, and Milwaukee still makes that piece of plastic look bad. I mean have you seen Hilti's plastic work? The clamshell looks seamless and every curve is perfect. Their plastic clamshell bodies are works of art.
One thing that bothered me is the stock, which has flat spots and weird unevenness like it's been made from a hand carved model that didn't quite get finished perfectly.
But it's still a very nice lower, and it kind of blows my mind that this is the only monolithic polymer AR15 lower currently available. It's such a good idea, and already a well established concept in other designs by European manufacturers. Seems crazy that probably the most modular civilian semi auto rifle in the world, with probably the largest aftermarket, has had so few attempts at a fully polymer lower.
Good stuff. This video really drove home the challenges of developing a good plastic part that is both precise and can take high stress. It's a really under appreciated field.
"I mean have you seen Hilti's plastic work? The clamshell looks seamless and every curve is perfect."
That's true, but I don't think anyone was looking to make a monolithic polymer receiver was that 5 times MORE expensive than an aluminum receiver.
An excellent presentation on the development of this concept. The KE Arms example stands out immediately from its predecessors as being something developed to a much higher standard. In fairness, technology has moved on in the last twenty years so this should be expected but it is clearly designed in a shape to make polymer manufacture optimised rather than starting with "let's make a polymer version of that." There is another AR15 polymer lower that was not mentioned that has probably outsold them all though: The S&W M&P15-22! Yes, it's not quite the same thing and is not interchangeable but they do seem to have got that thing really right from the beginning. Perhaps surprising that they haven't developed a centrefire polymer lower.
I find this whole project fascinating, because as a product development engineer, I have seen how great ideas get morphed by the end user into something that may or may not make as much sense as the original concept itself. As an inventor or engineer, you never know how your customers will interact with your product. Typically, customers make products make less sense if the engineering team has a good feel of the application.
I am sure Carl would have liked to point the GWACS patten attorneys at this video.
Glow in the dark lower - The OG Ghost Gun (I remmber this fluorecent effect from Scooby Doo - now they used it for guns? I can see it now"
I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for that pesky ATF)
I have a MkI CavArms lower. Same OD green color. It appears to be an early one from what Ian describes. Still going. I have a couple of the KE Arms lowers on preorder. Hurry up with the FDE production!
It's cool to see that old ideas that did not work well are now working with new technology and materials.
goes while the Space Odyssey monolith memes going around in 2020, heheh
Ian is massively geeking out today. 👍. Almost makes up for missing out(delaying) my anticipated 40mm pump action grenade launcher vid for this morning.🙂
Wait. Ian got to see a china lake???
At the end of yesterday’s video, he pulled out a China Lake and racked the slide.🤩🤩🤩
That is a fantastic way to use your experience to the highest level.
Thank you Ian, I will look to buy one of these for my collection.
Just got the kp15. Didn't realize everything behind the design this kinda makes me feel sure about my purchase
I've built a number of Cav arms Mk IIs and a couple of Sabres, and every single one needed dreml work on the fire control group well to insure reliable function.
Lo, and Gun Jesus changed the metal AR lower to polymer, and it was good. 5.56, book of Stoner.
As someone who works in the plastics industry doing moldflow simulations for plastic injection molded parts this was very fascinating to watch. Thanks for the in depth video!
I’m totally impressed at Iain having all of these different examples in one place at one time to show the linear development of the concept! And oh by the way, also early and later Glock pistols showing the evolution of how serial numbers were attached. Mind blown!
On the original Colt, I notice there's a small crack at the auto sear pin hole. I wonder how old that is.
I can't wait to make a WWSD my first rifle.
being a civilian shooter/self/home defense i am going to get a smooth sided upper no FA no Port Door and no Brass Deflector with the Faxon pencil barrel, this will likely shave an ounce or so and just be clean and simple. and i think one of the solar powered red dots.
@@thedeathwobblechannel6539 the holosun is a great optic with solar backup... but, have you considered an etched reticle?
@@anthonyalfano594 love the holosun with solar. I want one hopefully soon.
Great video, I purchased a late model Cav Arms MkII receiver and it's fun to shoot with, might have to grab one of these KE Arms iterations as well!
Fascinating that that lineup of monolithic polymer lowers also illustrates the evolution of what was considered to be an appropriate length of pull for this weapon. Thanks for the illustration!
I remember the good old day when Cav Arms was part of the Uzi Triangle 😂
There were a few times I needed a part or something, and they would say “swing by the shop and pick one up”. Great bunch of guys. I even did a little bit of electrical work for them once.
We love you ian
Because of you Ian, I bought this lower, I hope it's as good as you say
Learned a lot. You even answered several questions I had over the years. Thanks much.
An aluminum mold is actually quite cheap. Ballpark, sub $10k. They are very cheap because aluminum is super easy to machine. They are called soft molds and they are only good for maybe 10k parts. Also because they are soft they wear our fast. The really expensive molds are made from carbon steel. They are good for a million parts or more. Carbon steel is very difficult to machine and these molds may run $100k or more.
And glass fiber filled plastcs reac havic on aluminium molds.
Not carbon steel, but Stavax SVR (special stainless steel, that can be polished into mirror). They make optical lenses in such moulds. And these moulds last fartylliards of lenses made...
At 24:24, "Lingering problems with the exact placement of the pins". There is a continuing momentum in 3D printing philosophy where anything that can be 3D printed in plastic, must be printed in plastic (just to show off?). Those two mounting points can be made larger and have a metal bushing bonded-in. Not only would this provide a stronger and more long-lasting joint, but the precise location of the bore at the center of the bushing can be machined into an under-sized hole after the assembly is 99% complete, by using a precision jig.
i dont think the materials would work. it may "work" but long term use.....no thanks
Priceless free education. What a concept! Such a tasteful format too.
Great video showing the history of the obstacles of manufacturing a polymer lower for the AR platform. I remember seeing the Plum crazy lowers when they first came out and my first AR-15 was a new frontier armory that I purchased in 2012 for $109, the trigger, hammer, and even the detents were polymer. Now with 3d printing people are making their own and constantly improving past the obstacles with PLA+ but it isn't the best for high UV, heat, or water. PTEG is the next filament that everyone recently has been having success with on a less than $300 setup.
Thye bolt release dates it pretty well the ones with the raised lower but also serrations were very short lived
38 minutes? you're spoiling us Ian
Super awesome. Thank you for doing what you do, and thus bringing this back to life.
I have requested one of the KP-15 lowers as my Christmas gift. I can't wait till they finally come.
I can stand polymer recievers especially uppers. Maybe a monolithic lower would be alright with the extra material. But as far as one with a poly upper. I will never work on another one again
I'm not a fan of polymer uppers myself.
Probably fine for a dedicated .22lr upper, but yeah, the upper receiver gets the stress more than the lower.
@@ForgottenWeapons Have you seen the wyndham weaponry carbon fiber and polymer upper and lowers I've had mine for about 7 years or so and it's got at least 10,000 rds throug it and never a single problem. And I've dropped it well my son but its been dropped. I've also shot aver 1,000 rds through it in a single trip to the range, run a 100 rd drum on it multiple times. It really is a great rifle
At some point I suspect there will be interest from some militaries in a similar lower.
Why? No adjustable length of pull being one problem I see.
I think the wwsd complete rifle could pique the interest of special forces or some special organization within the military or police due to its qualities
@@Spike-13 But you forget...if the military had interest in a polymer lower they may find a way to make it adjustable, or perhaps a side folder design.
@@Aliyah_666 true. I think they would have pursued it already by now if that were a priority for them. There's already the bren with a polymer lower, and all polymer guns like the tavor, x95, and AUG. None are any lighter/more durable. Most are actually heavier than a AR, and less durable. My friend had a Tavor that cracked. Forged 7075 aluminum won't crack like that.
I am glad I found this amazing channel, love your content ian
I used to work at Montaplast in Frankfort KY, which is an injection molding plant for composite plastic air intake manifold.
When needing to "weld" two parts together, those two part would be placed in a machine that would basically "rub" the two parts together.
Under some pressure, and due to friction be caused by "rubbing" the two parts, they would then be "welded" together.
There are other methods for "welding" polymers and composite plastics together, but "sonic welding" is probably the best.