You have all the benefits of an inverter with just one speed cool, as long as the CFM are correct for the BTU. Never enough time in the videos but having Y1 Y2 separate would be a discussion on velocity of air in your duct work. If the Bosch is added to existing ducts I am sure they were not designed to keep velocity high enough to get the recommended throw from registers. With an inverter I am a fan of a single Y if your not zoned.
Great video. Your comment way below about the inverter sitting at a constant frequency when the evap target of 45 is satisfied +-2 degrees is dead on. This is happening to my BOVB20-60 coupled with a 4ton BMAC and 4ton BGH96. The BOVB thinks everything is great and parks at 2.5 tons instead of turning the fan to stage 2 to draw the heat out of my 2nd floor through an undersized return. The end result is that my 2nd floor overheats during cooling and the system sits on stage 1 for hours just barely coping until it hits a high enough delta on the stat to run stage 2. Is it possible to use the W1 to W2 upstage dip switch to force stage 2 cooling after 10 minutes? I need this function but I have my stat to let the furnace run the fan. The manual talks about the upstage being for heating so I'm not sure what to do. Thanks, Steve
Neither the BOSCH BCC100 or Honeywell T6 and T10 series I normally suggest allow upstage for Y2. An easy fix would be ICM102 delay on make between Y1 and Y2 at furnace board and choose your timing, this will also function with the heat pump. It does sound like a balance issue for needed CFM during cooling not getting upstairs where needed, increasing CFM will increase to both main level and second level. Does the second floor have its own trunk? If so a balance will be required using dampers. An easy test to see if that will help is pinch off registers on main floor and see if you increase CFM to level 2 and change the comfort.
@@johnstonecg I will take a look at the ICM102 to see if I want to go that route...it sounds like a reasonable solution until I can figure out the ducting. This is a side-split and the 2nd floor has 6 x 5" round risers and 2 small square returns going up 2x4 walls that open up to 4 floor returns. There is evidence of multiple past attempts to fix the issue...lots of baseboard heaters on the outskirts of the 2nd floor and some capped off vents on the main floor. Over the last couple days I did some duct sealing and moving dampers but it was not enough to make the inverter work substantially harder.
I’ve been looking for more specifications on this system without having to read so much thank you your a life saver I do have a question will the bov15 condenser and Bosch 20 air handler still have dehumidification option without using the B100 and if so can I use the Sensi touch for dehumidification and if so what would be the best way to wire or adjust thermostat settings to lower my fan speed for dehumidification For a 2 ton
You can not use the fan speed for dehumidification via the SHR but reduce the BTU output and increase cycle length. Using Y1 Y2, so 2 stage stat would do very well with the 20 SEER AHU. Just set the Y1 to about 600 CFM and Y2 to 800 CFM, if the thermostat allows you to latch on stage 2 do so. Still keep cycle rate of compressor at 1.
Other than remote view of an error I do feel it does lack. The other functions can be completed without need for adding the product. I have a small amount of experience with the control and app under a different name (product produced by Midea for Bosch) but have not ordered any of the Premium Connected series units.
So if I am understanding this correctly. If I have a coil with an orfice and not a TXV for example this condenser will not work with it because it needs the TXV to be able to help it determine the BTU output?
Close, with the frequency changes of the compressor the capacity will change, a fixed orifice will be correct only at one capacity. The TXV will be required to maintain the correct superheat and the changing speeds of the compressor. This will assure the suction line temperature reflects the heat load in the home and not the liquid flooding the evaporation coil from improper size orifice.
What is the correct dip switch setting for an installation without emergency heat strips installed? What do we do with the W wires in this case? Also, can we force the 4-ton air handler to run in LOW speed only due to the existing duct design not being suitable for higher fan speed? thanks
I would need to know what Air handler you have to talk dip switches. the Back up heat signal from thermostat will go to W, the outdoor W will go to W and if the unit has a W2, you can stage it or set timing or even just jumper the W1 W2. The outdoor unit maintains one pressure at transducer (translates to 46 degrees cooling and 107 degrees heating) so poor airflow will automatically reduce BTU output. So you can set the Y1 only or Y1 and Y2 on air handler but lower the speed taps for reduced air flow with out any issues.
@@johnstonecg thanks for responding. This is a BOVB-60HDN1-M18M condenser being installed with a BVA-48WN1-M20 air handling unit. I would like to limit the CFM of the blower to the tap (1) or tap(2) speeds at .5" WC. No Heating strips on this installation.
The low speed will really restrict BTU output but yes. Wire the Y from stat to outside without a connection to the board and set G to low, if you need a tiny bit more use Y1 only. The high static of the poor duct will do the rest. backup/aux heat from stat and W from outdoor unit both to W on AHU
retired HVAC tech. current system: 10yr old, 3 ton Goodman 14 seer , heat pump, 410a, TXV, AHU x-13 constant torque blower. looking at replacing condenser (keeping current AHU) w/ Bosh 3 ton 2.0. and 3 stage t-stat Y1 900 cfm, Y2 1050 cfm Questions are #1- current 25ft line set 3/8 liquid and 7/8 vapor. Will 7/8 work? #2 can i use a time delay on AHU fan ? (to lesson indoor coil "dead temp" until 2.0 unit ramps up) if so , what duration of delay ? All comments welcome. Thanks for your time. GE
Sorry no 3/4 would be the largest approved vapor line, I would not suggest ever using a 7/8. The delay is fine, the pressure cannot drop below 43 PSI for any length of time and the line temp below 47 will effect the frequency of the compressor but a delay of up to 10 or 15 seconds should not effect operation. The first 3 minutes of frequency are preset to 38hz and 30hz. Make sure you are not getting liquid return on the vapor.
@@andygulick6085 Smaller the line the higher velocity we have and that is great for oil return. the Unit does well on its own returning oil, so the small line is not 100% needed. With the small line we limit the gas flow and get a pressure drop causing loss of capacity. Really critical with the Bosch because pressure drop equals temp drop and the evap temperature is measured at the outdoor unit. So if its a long line set, over 35 foot, the smaller suction line can hurt you in capacity (5% max).
Hi there -- great video. Could you list the Ecobee settings you would recommend for this unit when used as a dual fuel system with gas furnace auxiliary? Thanks!
Ok straight from ECObee 1 In mobile app disable eco plus 2 be sure smart home / away is disabled if not using wifi 3 if using multiple sensors disable follow me, you still can use for average etc.. 4 thermostat preferences find and disable cool smart recovery and heat smart recovery 5 settings - advanced settings - thresholds - staging needs to be set to manually Hope it helps, let me know.
@@johnstonecg OK, so you would not enable smart recovery in the thermostat (and turn on the S4-3 switch to turn off adaptive capacity) like you recommend with the Honeywell thermostat? The Ecobee also has the option of automatic staging / switching between heat pump and aux furnace heat (if I understand it correctly) -- you would recommend not enabling this, but rather going with manual staging / switching. Is that correct? Thanks so much for your help, apologies if I'm mixing things up. Cheers!
@@davidw.265 If you switch all smart recovery features in thermostat and set the cycle rate for outdoor Unit to 1 cycle per hour you can leave the switch S4-3 off (turning ON disables smart recovery for outdoor system and leaving it off allows smart recovery). I prefer manual staging for this application when you have a stage up timer to bring on back up if unit runs for over an hour. On your ecobee it can be found here MAIN MENU > SETTINGS > INSTALLATION SETTINGS > THRESHOLDS. If your back up is high efficient gas and the cost of NG is reasonable in your area, staging back up in quicker does not penalize you cost wise.
Hello. I live in Quebec and i have a 4 ton IDS2.0 with a Bosch furnace. I use Y1 and Y2. Presently speed fan is set up like that : Y1 = 1 and Y2 = 3 . Do you think it s ok ? I red all the comments and I think that low speed is not the best.
In your climate during heat cycle, it would not produce enough BTUs to be of any help. during cooling the 2 speeds would be helpful, you would most likely not need all 4 tons most of the season. If you chose to leave it moving it to Y2 Y3 (Im not sure your model or ESP) the Unit is not really going to operate below 50% long and the OSU is a 5 ton set up as a 4 ton (only available in 3 or 5 ton) and the max lowest it will run is 2 ton and will most likely be at 3.5 ton most its life. So if your primarily heating just jumper Y1 Y2 for the heat season (add jumper in the furnace on control board leaving wires in place). The higher CFM will produce more BTUs.
@@fontainejean-philippe775 The Unit Btu output is based on the temp (related pressure) of the large line, either suction or hot gas mattering on mode. It will speed compressor up to maintain one temperature on the line, the more you speed up fan the more heat you remove from the exchanger making the coil cooler and in turn the compressor speeds up.
It does not, it only maintains a temperature at the suction line returning from the indoor coil. With the constant CFM the sensible heat ration will float or change with BTU output of compressor. The BTU output will dictate BTU, the indoor blower will dictate delta T (with the TXV throttling position).
Homeowner here trying to learn more about this system. Is this competitive to the Mitsu Hyper heat? Is full heating capacity maintained through to -4°F prior to backup heating kicking in?
No, this would be a unit that would fit on the existing furnace or homes duct system. Hyper heat is more along the lines of ductless product even with the option of concealed ductless AHU. If you want to exceed the hyper heat look at the Daikin Aurora systems, especially the higher COP and smaller breakers due to less amp draw. This system would loose heat output as the temperature drops. The engineering data would show output at temperature.
@@johnstonecg I'm looking for something that would keep using my installed ductwork. I have a central 4 ton system AC and gas furnace. Recently got solar and batteries installed and exploring if I could shift as much towards electric as possible. I was looking into the Mitsu Hyper heat+their air handler. Bosch IDS 2.0 system with backup strips/or dual fuel with their gas 96furnclace. Does the Daikin Aurora system provide a ducted solution as well? Live in the New England area and it can get quite cold on certain stretches in the winter.
No the cold climates are not in a conventional design on the Daikin side, Only with VRV commercial applications. But you are going the right way. Cost per BTU is key, Kwatt x 3.42 will give you BTU produced and with a little math on what you pay per Kwatt hour you can do cost per BTU. Again on the cubic foot of gas side (100K BTU input furnace is 1 cubic foot per hour) and compare the 2. I'm not sure your utility cost in your area. Then cost of your new systems, difference divided by monthly savings will give you pay back of your new system. I do have to urge any one going the direction of super high efficiency or low utility bills that the only reason guys like me exist is to make end users comfortable. That's cool in Summer and warm in Winter the savings is secondary. Do look at the COP at every temperature (coefficient of performance) A COP of 1 is electric heat a COP of 2 is twice as efficient. Getting full output at 0 degrees with a COP of 1.2. Hyper heat has COP as low as 2 at 17 degrees, compare to others like Bosch at a COP of 2.93. Less output but less cost per BTU. The up to "this number" is not a good metric. If you rate by HSPF (HSPF times .293 is COP) the larger number is better but check the number from high (47 degrees) to low (17 degrees) to zero if you want to go that low. That will give you the best use of power. Make an informed decision find a good company or two in your area or really good data on line. And I always love natural gas back up, comfort is #1 at the end of day or we would all live in a tiny home and save a lot of money.
On the current 10 SEER and 20 SEER SW-3 is used for limiting max output from 3 to to 2 ton and on the larger model 5 ton to 4 ton. This should be left ON. The BTU output will be dictated by CFM and outdoor temp. Only in rare occasions when a large CFM is needed and only a sensible load is present and must be limited, should this switch be touched. This function gets confused with an installation where, for example, a 2 ton cooling but a 3 ton heat pump is desired. This would be controlled by CFM at the indoor Unit.
@@xincai951 Left in OFF is fine. Its more critical to get the thermostat cycle rate down to 1 cycle or less aggressive control. With a cycle rate from factory on the thermostat of 3 or higher the switch wont make a change to speak of anyway. I've seen zone set ups where cycle rates are effected by small zone sizes so switching ON to disable would be preferred.
@@johnstonecg Great, thanks. I have set the thermostat CPH to 1 for the compressor. The switch is OFF and adaptive capacity output is On currently; It's just weird that sometimes the compressor would ramp up to full speed and I can hear it from inside my house when the heating demand wasn't that big.
@@xincai951 Give it a chance to learn its adaptive recovery with the cycle rate set to One, you can power odd flip the switch and power up any time with no harm done but try at the 1 cycle first.
@@OnePointLander Yes and No, in cooling the CFM, outdoor temp and indoor temp will allow slightly higher BTU but in heating when maintaining set condenser temperature (indoor) the unit will continue to ramp up to maintain temp. But No if your in 3 ton mode (at 1200CFM) you will not get 4 tons of cooling, but when running as a 2 ton (at 800CFM) in heat mode you can exceed 100% of output.
hi I have the 3 ton Bosch ids 2.0 20 seer and Im adding Bosch bcc 100 thermostat to it. I can't find settings for one cycle per hour. but i found Sensitivity Level under Installer Access SS (sensitivity level for room temperature reading lvl 1 to lvl 9 default 5. the lower the lvl the more you system cycles to maintain the set point)is this the same thing should I set it to 9? also what is the best setting for Staging ST in Advanced Settings (Ability to configure staging settings for Latching, Stage Delay, and Stage Temp.) any help would be appreciated .
After discussions with Bosch the SS should be set to 8. Unless you are using Y2 or W2 the staging wont come into play. If you using setback the delay should be set to 20 , running at lower CFM will delay the time to high speed but in set back you may want the normal delay to high speed to work with you. The 20 minute delay also gives you a longer cycle that can be beneficial for latent removal and defrost cycles. Latching is preferred to meet the thermostat setting other wise the temperature can stay at the stage temp or droop if the heat loss is larger than the heat produced. I hope that helps.
Lowest possible speed is 36% of 54500 in cooling and 56000 in heat. The BTU will be set by the CFM. So 50% of the max output would be 27250 but you could go as low as 19960 BTU's at 22 Hertz.
Thank you for your infos. I have 1400 square house. I want a Bosch IDS 2.0 . 3 tons unit is probably too small for Phoenix AZ. Is 5 tons unit worked? I have a Goodman furnace GMVC80080c5n. Thank you again.
5 ton will work, the BTU output will depend on the CFM you move on the inside. If you move to much the unit may become oversized, Do you have high humidity? If you oversize you may not get humidity out or have quick temperature swings. A manual J calculation on the home will tell you what size you need for that home.
We set cycle rates on furnaces and condensers for 2 reasons, maintain temperature and efficiency. The rate at which the Bosch starts at a low frequency and speeds up to full frequency allows the Unit to run efficient, get better latent removal at the evaporation coil and maintain a temperature without large fluctuations at the thermostat. Setting it at 3 cycles (default thermostat) it will switch on the Unit quickly (less droop) but overshoot indoor setting. Short cycles wont give us time to get cold (below dew point) long enough to remove humidity.
@@johnstonecg I just had 3 ton single zone and 3ton 2 zone installed and all 3 Honeywell Tstats are set to 3 cycles per hour. Is this a mistake on my installer? Also the Tstats have an adaptive recovery option. Should this be off so it doesnt interfere with the units adaptive recovery logic?
@@daviddawson2573 It is a mistake and very common. All of the Bosch Inverters need to be set to 1 cycle per hour. I really believe Bosch does a very poor job getting this information across. The thermostat will have a larger droop to attempt to reduce the cycles allowing a longer run time for the Inverter.
@@daviddawson2573 you should see a change in your bill. The noise level you here depends on where is the noise? Inside is from high air velocity, the CFM needs to match the needed tonnage and the duct size for that CFM dictates velocity and noise. Outside fan can get louder under certain conditions.
Hello, I have Goodman GVC800805CNAD paired with BOSCH BMAC4248CNTF and BOVA60HDN1M20G. I set 4.0 tons for my air handler. But I only get 1530 cfm when in cooling. The air handler ramped up to 1600 cfm then ramped back down to 1530 until it satisfied the thermostat. So I set to 4.3 tons. The air handler ramped up to 1720 cfm then ramped back down to 1560. Do you know why I did not get full CFM as setpoint? the other question is why I have to enter the new code every time I got in the Coolcloud app? I there other way to eliminate that process? Thank you.
I'm guessing, by the cfm and coil, you are attempting to get 4 tons of Btu's from the BOVA. Lets start with the AHRI performance specifies and output of 45K BTU at CFM of 1450 not 1600. An approximation on the BOVA06020 would be 920BTU per Frequency displayed after 20 minutes run time if you reach high speed. If your return line is below 47 the inverter will slow down, and you will have less BTUs until you push more heat into the evaporation coil. Now the GVC80, no on the code, it is sometimes yes and sometimes no but usually you will need to enter it. for the CFM issue. Are you using the discharge sensor? Is the ESP of the unit below .9"wc? Are you using Y1 and Y2 or just Y1 and does the ODS match, HP1 or HP2? With the BOVA always set compressor cycle to 1 in stat but in the settings of furnace turn ramping profile off or to A. Checks those items and let me know. The Bosch video does have a slide showing stand alone ratings with BOVA and coil, to the far right will be the CFM settings.
@@johnstonecg Thank you for all the advices. I am using only Y1 for cooling and W1 for heating (furnace). On the condensing unit, I set at 2 to 4 tons. The unit is running great so far. I just thought that if I set the ODS at 4 tons I should get 1600 cfm. I don’t have discharge air sensor. I set the ramping profile to B setting for cooling. As far as heating, I left everything in default. Thank you.
Y1 is fine as long as ods is set to HP1. For 4 tons on the BOVA you can set the CFM to 3.7 (Goodman defaults to 400CFM per ton). The Ramp profile should go to A but set to B should not effect operation since the BOVA is still in ramp up on inverter anyway. You can not control the latent load by ramping profile, less air will only be less BTUs on the BOVA, ramping is just making the Unit smaller for a while. The only answer I can think of for your CFM swing would be the ESP of the Unit above .9'wc. Remove the filter and see if cfm stays steady, if so the added ESP of the filter pushed it to high. If you are at a high static the increase of CFM over 4 tons will just make it worse. Let me know if you get an ESP on the Unit.
@@johnstonecg I have removed the filters and the cfm is still swing. I measured the ESP of the unit is around 1.1 " WC. I set the cfm to 3.7 tons as you mentioned. The cfm stayed at 1480. It look likes ODS setting at 4 tons 1600 cfm is too much for the Bosch 4 tons case coil. Do you know how Goodman measure cfm on this furnace? Thank you.
The CFM is measured via ESP of the blower / motor. Your model number is incomplete but I am guessing it is the GMVC and not the GVC. The GMVC has no issues at .9"wc ESP or even 1". The Bosch coil on the C width is a little over .35" at the 1480, even if it were at .4" that would be par for a 4 ton C width and not any different then any brand we service. Your exceeding 1" is from another factor, usually duct work and then then return 75% of the time, you can measure different points to see where your getting that high of a static from. You will eventually get B3 errors from high static and the blower will stop operating. That model, in applications I have been on, operates great at .7 or .8"wc Total ESP. The ESP of .7 is easily achievable in 99% of applications.
Great video, do you recommend wiring y1 and y2 or keep them separate for 2 stage blower motor speed?
You have all the benefits of an inverter with just one speed cool, as long as the CFM are correct for the BTU. Never enough time in the videos but having Y1 Y2 separate would be a discussion on velocity of air in your duct work. If the Bosch is added to existing ducts I am sure they were not designed to keep velocity high enough to get the recommended throw from registers. With an inverter I am a fan of a single Y if your not zoned.
Great video. Your comment way below about the inverter sitting at a constant frequency when the evap target of 45 is satisfied +-2 degrees is dead on. This is happening to my BOVB20-60 coupled with a 4ton BMAC and 4ton BGH96. The BOVB thinks everything is great and parks at 2.5 tons instead of turning the fan to stage 2 to draw the heat out of my 2nd floor through an undersized return. The end result is that my 2nd floor overheats during cooling and the system sits on stage 1 for hours just barely coping until it hits a high enough delta on the stat to run stage 2. Is it possible to use the W1 to W2 upstage dip switch to force stage 2 cooling after 10 minutes? I need this function but I have my stat to let the furnace run the fan. The manual talks about the upstage being for heating so I'm not sure what to do.
Thanks, Steve
Neither the BOSCH BCC100 or Honeywell T6 and T10 series I normally suggest allow upstage for Y2. An easy fix would be ICM102 delay on make between Y1 and Y2 at furnace board and choose your timing, this will also function with the heat pump. It does sound like a balance issue for needed CFM during cooling not getting upstairs where needed, increasing CFM will increase to both main level and second level. Does the second floor have its own trunk? If so a balance will be required using dampers. An easy test to see if that will help is pinch off registers on main floor and see if you increase CFM to level 2 and change the comfort.
@@johnstonecg I will take a look at the ICM102 to see if I want to go that route...it sounds like a reasonable solution until I can figure out the ducting. This is a side-split and the 2nd floor has 6 x 5" round risers and 2 small square returns going up 2x4 walls that open up to 4 floor returns. There is evidence of multiple past attempts to fix the issue...lots of baseboard heaters on the outskirts of the 2nd floor and some capped off vents on the main floor. Over the last couple days I did some duct sealing and moving dampers but it was not enough to make the inverter work substantially harder.
@@SteveRivett Yes some times we hit that brick wall called poor duct work. Best of luck, let me know if we can help.
I’ve been looking for more specifications on this system without having to read so much thank you your a life saver
I do have a question will the bov15 condenser and Bosch 20 air handler still have dehumidification option without using the B100 and if so can I use the Sensi touch for dehumidification and if so what would be the best way to wire or adjust thermostat settings to lower my fan speed for dehumidification
For a 2 ton
You can not use the fan speed for dehumidification via the SHR but reduce the BTU output and increase cycle length. Using Y1 Y2, so 2 stage stat would do very well with the 20 SEER AHU. Just set the Y1 to about 600 CFM and Y2 to 800 CFM, if the thermostat allows you to latch on stage 2 do so. Still keep cycle rate of compressor at 1.
how do you set an ecobee thermostat for 1 cycle per hour? I don't see it as an option.
spaces.hightail.com/space/xQ62iFJgsl
Do you have a y experience with the EasyAir app that supposedly connects to these? It seems very lacking.
Other than remote view of an error I do feel it does lack. The other functions can be completed without need for adding the product. I have a small amount of experience with the control and app under a different name (product produced by Midea for Bosch) but have not ordered any of the Premium Connected series units.
So if I am understanding this correctly. If I have a coil with an orfice and not a TXV for example this condenser will not work with it because it needs the TXV to be able to help it determine the BTU output?
Close, with the frequency changes of the compressor the capacity will change, a fixed orifice will be correct only at one capacity. The TXV will be required to maintain the correct superheat and the changing speeds of the compressor. This will assure the suction line temperature reflects the heat load in the home and not the liquid flooding the evaporation coil from improper size orifice.
What is the correct dip switch setting for an installation without emergency heat strips installed? What do we do with the W wires in this case? Also, can we force the 4-ton air handler to run in LOW speed only due to the existing duct design not being suitable for higher fan speed? thanks
I would need to know what Air handler you have to talk dip switches. the Back up heat signal from thermostat will go to W, the outdoor W will go to W and if the unit has a W2, you can stage it or set timing or even just jumper the W1 W2. The outdoor unit maintains one pressure at transducer (translates to 46 degrees cooling and 107 degrees heating) so poor airflow will automatically reduce BTU output. So you can set the Y1 only or Y1 and Y2 on air handler but lower the speed taps for reduced air flow with out any issues.
@@johnstonecg thanks for responding. This is a BOVB-60HDN1-M18M condenser being installed with a BVA-48WN1-M20 air handling unit. I would like to limit the CFM of the blower to the tap (1) or tap(2) speeds at .5" WC. No Heating strips on this installation.
The low speed will really restrict BTU output but yes. Wire the Y from stat to outside without a connection to the board and set G to low, if you need a tiny bit more use Y1 only. The high static of the poor duct will do the rest. backup/aux heat from stat and W from outdoor unit both to W on AHU
retired HVAC tech. current system: 10yr old, 3 ton Goodman 14 seer , heat pump, 410a, TXV, AHU x-13 constant torque blower. looking at replacing condenser (keeping current AHU) w/ Bosh 3 ton 2.0. and 3 stage t-stat Y1 900 cfm, Y2 1050 cfm Questions are #1- current 25ft line set 3/8 liquid and 7/8 vapor. Will 7/8 work? #2 can i use a time delay on AHU fan ? (to lesson indoor coil "dead temp" until 2.0 unit ramps up) if so , what duration of delay ? All comments welcome. Thanks for your time. GE
Sorry no 3/4 would be the largest approved vapor line, I would not suggest ever using a 7/8. The delay is fine, the pressure cannot drop below 43 PSI for any length of time and the line temp below 47 will effect the frequency of the compressor but a delay of up to 10 or 15 seconds should not effect operation. The first 3 minutes of frequency are preset to 38hz and 30hz. Make sure you are not getting liquid return on the vapor.
@@johnstonecg What would happen if you used 7/8? Asking for a friend.
@@andygulick6085 Smaller the line the higher velocity we have and that is great for oil return. the Unit does well on its own returning oil, so the small line is not 100% needed. With the small line we limit the gas flow and get a pressure drop causing loss of capacity. Really critical with the Bosch because pressure drop equals temp drop and the evap temperature is measured at the outdoor unit. So if its a long line set, over 35 foot, the smaller suction line can hurt you in capacity (5% max).
Hi there -- great video. Could you list the Ecobee settings you would recommend for this unit when used as a dual fuel system with gas furnace auxiliary? Thanks!
Ok straight from ECObee
1 In mobile app disable eco plus
2 be sure smart home / away is disabled if not using wifi
3 if using multiple sensors disable follow me, you still can use for average etc..
4 thermostat preferences find and disable cool smart recovery and heat smart recovery
5 settings - advanced settings - thresholds - staging needs to be set to manually
Hope it helps, let me know.
@@johnstonecg OK, so you would not enable smart recovery in the thermostat (and turn on the S4-3 switch to turn off adaptive capacity) like you recommend with the Honeywell thermostat? The Ecobee also has the option of automatic staging / switching between heat pump and aux furnace heat (if I understand it correctly) -- you would recommend not enabling this, but rather going with manual staging / switching. Is that correct? Thanks so much for your help, apologies if I'm mixing things up. Cheers!
@@davidw.265 If you switch all smart recovery features in thermostat and set the cycle rate for outdoor Unit to 1 cycle per hour you can leave the switch S4-3 off (turning ON disables smart recovery for outdoor system and leaving it off allows smart recovery). I prefer manual staging for this application when you have a stage up timer to bring on back up if unit runs for over an hour. On your ecobee it can be found here MAIN MENU > SETTINGS > INSTALLATION SETTINGS > THRESHOLDS. If your back up is high efficient gas and the cost of NG is reasonable in your area, staging back up in quicker does not penalize you cost wise.
@@johnstonecg Got it, thanks for all your help!
@@davidw.265 what settings did you end up going with? I'm in the same boat scratching my head with this CPH business and my ecobee premium.
Hello. I live in Quebec and i have a 4 ton IDS2.0 with a Bosch furnace. I use Y1 and Y2. Presently speed fan is set up like that : Y1 = 1 and Y2 = 3 . Do you think it s ok ? I red all the comments and I think that low speed is not the best.
In your climate during heat cycle, it would not produce enough BTUs to be of any help. during cooling the 2 speeds would be helpful, you would most likely not need all 4 tons most of the season. If you chose to leave it moving it to Y2 Y3 (Im not sure your model or ESP) the Unit is not really going to operate below 50% long and the OSU is a 5 ton set up as a 4 ton (only available in 3 or 5 ton) and the max lowest it will run is 2 ton and will most likely be at 3.5 ton most its life. So if your primarily heating just jumper Y1 Y2 for the heat season (add jumper in the furnace on control board leaving wires in place). The higher CFM will produce more BTUs.
So I should setup SW6-1,2 to ON in order to have fan speed at 3 (médium) with Y1 and fan speed at 5 (high) with Y2. Right? Thanks for support
Presently fan speed is 1 and 3. So less BTU.
@@fontainejean-philippe775 The Unit Btu output is based on the temp (related pressure) of the large line, either suction or hot gas mattering on mode. It will speed compressor up to maintain one temperature on the line, the more you speed up fan the more heat you remove from the exchanger making the coil cooler and in turn the compressor speeds up.
Unless I am misunderstanding, how does it know what the airflow is from the air handler?
It does not, it only maintains a temperature at the suction line returning from the indoor coil. With the constant CFM the sensible heat ration will float or change with BTU output of compressor. The BTU output will dictate BTU, the indoor blower will dictate delta T (with the TXV throttling position).
Homeowner here trying to learn more about this system. Is this competitive to the Mitsu Hyper heat? Is full heating capacity maintained through to -4°F prior to backup heating kicking in?
No, this would be a unit that would fit on the existing furnace or homes duct system. Hyper heat is more along the lines of ductless product even with the option of concealed ductless AHU. If you want to exceed the hyper heat look at the Daikin Aurora systems, especially the higher COP and smaller breakers due to less amp draw. This system would loose heat output as the temperature drops. The engineering data would show output at temperature.
@@johnstonecg
I'm looking for something that would keep using my installed ductwork. I have a central 4 ton system AC and gas furnace.
Recently got solar and batteries installed and exploring if I could shift as much towards electric as possible.
I was looking into the Mitsu Hyper heat+their air handler.
Bosch IDS 2.0 system with backup strips/or dual fuel with their gas 96furnclace.
Does the Daikin Aurora system provide a ducted solution as well?
Live in the New England area and it can get quite cold on certain stretches in the winter.
No the cold climates are not in a conventional design on the Daikin side, Only with VRV commercial applications. But you are going the right way. Cost per BTU is key, Kwatt x 3.42 will give you BTU produced and with a little math on what you pay per Kwatt hour you can do cost per BTU. Again on the cubic foot of gas side (100K BTU input furnace is 1 cubic foot per hour) and compare the 2. I'm not sure your utility cost in your area. Then cost of your new systems, difference divided by monthly savings will give you pay back of your new system. I do have to urge any one going the direction of super high efficiency or low utility bills that the only reason guys like me exist is to make end users comfortable. That's cool in Summer and warm in Winter the savings is secondary. Do look at the COP at every temperature (coefficient of performance) A COP of 1 is electric heat a COP of 2 is twice as efficient. Getting full output at 0 degrees with a COP of 1.2. Hyper heat has COP as low as 2 at 17 degrees, compare to others like Bosch at a COP of 2.93. Less output but less cost per BTU. The up to "this number" is not a good metric. If you rate by HSPF (HSPF times .293 is COP) the larger number is better but check the number from high (47 degrees) to low (17 degrees) to zero if you want to go that low. That will give you the best use of power. Make an informed decision find a good company or two in your area or really good data on line. And I always love natural gas back up, comfort is #1 at the end of day or we would all live in a tiny home and save a lot of money.
Do you recommend SW-3 switch to be ON or OFF for Bosch dual fuel system, in that case the system will switch between gas and heat pump.
On the current 10 SEER and 20 SEER SW-3 is used for limiting max output from 3 to to 2 ton and on the larger model 5 ton to 4 ton. This should be left ON. The BTU output will be dictated by CFM and outdoor temp. Only in rare occasions when a large CFM is needed and only a sensible load is present and must be limited, should this switch be touched. This function gets confused with an installation where, for example, a 2 ton cooling but a 3 ton heat pump is desired. This would be controlled by CFM at the indoor Unit.
@@johnstonecg I am sorry. I meant SW4-3, adaptive capacity output switch.
@@xincai951 Left in OFF is fine. Its more critical to get the thermostat cycle rate down to 1 cycle or less aggressive control. With a cycle rate from factory on the thermostat of 3 or higher the switch wont make a change to speak of anyway. I've seen zone set ups where cycle rates are effected by small zone sizes so switching ON to disable would be preferred.
@@johnstonecg Great, thanks. I have set the thermostat CPH to 1 for the compressor. The switch is OFF and adaptive capacity output is On currently; It's just weird that sometimes the compressor would ramp up to full speed and I can hear it from inside my house when the heating demand wasn't that big.
@@xincai951 Give it a chance to learn its adaptive recovery with the cycle rate set to One, you can power odd flip the switch and power up any time with no harm done but try at the 1 cycle first.
I have the 2.0 3 Ton. What is the max hertz out put of this unit? I have seen mine go to 95.
96 in Heating Mode and 85 in Cooling mode. During mild temperatures the target condenser and evaporator temperatures are met at lower frequency.
@@johnstonecg When it says it goes to 136%, is that 136% of 3 Tons? So potential capacity of 4 tons?
@@OnePointLander Yes and No, in cooling the CFM, outdoor temp and indoor temp will allow slightly higher BTU but in heating when maintaining set condenser temperature (indoor) the unit will continue to ramp up to maintain temp. But No if your in 3 ton mode (at 1200CFM) you will not get 4 tons of cooling, but when running as a 2 ton (at 800CFM) in heat mode you can exceed 100% of output.
hi I have the 3 ton Bosch ids 2.0 20 seer and Im adding Bosch bcc 100 thermostat to it. I can't find settings for one cycle per hour. but i found Sensitivity Level under Installer Access SS (sensitivity level for room temperature reading lvl 1 to lvl 9 default 5. the lower the lvl the more you system cycles to maintain the set point)is this the same thing should I set it to 9? also what is the best setting for Staging ST in Advanced Settings (Ability to configure staging settings for Latching, Stage Delay, and Stage Temp.) any help would be appreciated .
After discussions with Bosch the SS should be set to 8. Unless you are using Y2 or W2 the staging wont come into play. If you using setback the delay should be set to 20 , running at lower CFM will delay the time to high speed but in set back you may want the normal delay to high speed to work with you. The 20 minute delay also gives you a longer cycle that can be beneficial for latent removal and defrost cycles. Latching is preferred to meet the thermostat setting other wise the temperature can stay at the stage temp or droop if the heat loss is larger than the heat produced. I hope that helps.
Thank you for fast response. I think I andersen. I do have Y2 and W2 and will try your suggestions. Have nice day.
At 50%, how many tons of hvac is Bosch IDS 2.0 5 tons system?
Lowest possible speed is 36% of 54500 in cooling and 56000 in heat. The BTU will be set by the CFM. So 50% of the max output would be 27250 but you could go as low as 19960 BTU's at 22 Hertz.
Thank you for your infos. I have 1400 square house. I want a Bosch IDS 2.0 . 3 tons unit is probably too small for Phoenix AZ. Is 5 tons unit worked? I have a Goodman furnace GMVC80080c5n. Thank you again.
5 ton will work, the BTU output will depend on the CFM you move on the inside. If you move to much the unit may become oversized, Do you have high humidity? If you oversize you may not get humidity out or have quick temperature swings. A manual J calculation on the home will tell you what size you need for that home.
Could you explain need for the minimum one cycle per hour requirement?
We set cycle rates on furnaces and condensers for 2 reasons, maintain temperature and efficiency. The rate at which the Bosch starts at a low frequency and speeds up to full frequency allows the Unit to run efficient, get better latent removal at the evaporation coil and maintain a temperature without large fluctuations at the thermostat. Setting it at 3 cycles (default thermostat) it will switch on the Unit quickly (less droop) but overshoot indoor setting. Short cycles wont give us time to get cold (below dew point) long enough to remove humidity.
@@johnstonecg I just had 3 ton single zone and 3ton 2 zone installed and all 3 Honeywell Tstats are set to 3 cycles per hour. Is this a mistake on my installer?
Also the Tstats have an adaptive recovery option. Should this be off so it doesnt interfere with the units adaptive recovery logic?
@@daviddawson2573 It is a mistake and very common. All of the Bosch Inverters need to be set to 1 cycle per hour. I really believe Bosch does a very poor job getting this information across. The thermostat will have a larger droop to attempt to reduce the cycles allowing a longer run time for the Inverter.
Thanks for confirming. Hopefully it runs quieter now and I see improved performance. Current bill hasn't shown a increase in efficiency
@@daviddawson2573 you should see a change in your bill. The noise level you here depends on where is the noise? Inside is from high air velocity, the CFM needs to match the needed tonnage and the duct size for that CFM dictates velocity and noise. Outside fan can get louder under certain conditions.
Hello,
I have Goodman GVC800805CNAD paired with BOSCH BMAC4248CNTF and BOVA60HDN1M20G. I set 4.0 tons for my air handler. But I only get 1530 cfm when in cooling. The air handler ramped up to 1600 cfm then ramped back down to 1530 until it satisfied the thermostat. So I set to 4.3 tons. The air handler ramped up to 1720 cfm then ramped back down to 1560. Do you know why I did not get full CFM as setpoint? the other question is why I have to enter the new code every time I got in the Coolcloud app? I there other way to eliminate that process? Thank you.
I'm guessing, by the cfm and coil, you are attempting to get 4 tons of Btu's from the BOVA. Lets start with the AHRI performance specifies and output of 45K BTU at CFM of 1450 not 1600. An approximation on the BOVA06020 would be 920BTU per Frequency displayed after 20 minutes run time if you reach high speed. If your return line is below 47 the inverter will slow down, and you will have less BTUs until you push more heat into the evaporation coil.
Now the GVC80, no on the code, it is sometimes yes and sometimes no but usually you will need to enter it. for the CFM issue. Are you using the discharge sensor? Is the ESP of the unit below .9"wc? Are you using Y1 and Y2 or just Y1 and does the ODS match, HP1 or HP2? With the BOVA always set compressor cycle to 1 in stat but in the settings of furnace turn ramping profile off or to A.
Checks those items and let me know. The Bosch video does have a slide showing stand alone ratings with BOVA and coil, to the far right will be the CFM settings.
@@johnstonecg
Thank you for all the advices. I am using only Y1 for cooling and W1 for heating (furnace). On the condensing unit, I set at 2 to 4 tons. The unit is running great so far. I just thought that if I set the ODS at 4 tons I should get 1600 cfm. I don’t have discharge air sensor. I set the ramping profile to B setting for cooling. As far as heating, I left everything in default. Thank you.
Y1 is fine as long as ods is set to HP1. For 4 tons on the BOVA you can set the CFM to 3.7 (Goodman defaults to 400CFM per ton). The Ramp profile should go to A but set to B should not effect operation since the BOVA is still in ramp up on inverter anyway. You can not control the latent load by ramping profile, less air will only be less BTUs on the BOVA, ramping is just making the Unit smaller for a while. The only answer I can think of for your CFM swing would be the ESP of the Unit above .9'wc. Remove the filter and see if cfm stays steady, if so the added ESP of the filter pushed it to high. If you are at a high static the increase of CFM over 4 tons will just make it worse. Let me know if you get an ESP on the Unit.
@@johnstonecg
I have removed the filters and the cfm is still swing. I measured the ESP of the unit is around 1.1 " WC. I set the cfm to 3.7 tons as you mentioned. The cfm stayed at 1480. It look likes ODS setting at 4 tons 1600 cfm is too much for the Bosch 4 tons case coil. Do you know how Goodman measure cfm on this furnace? Thank you.
The CFM is measured via ESP of the blower / motor. Your model number is incomplete but I am guessing it is the GMVC and not the GVC. The GMVC has no issues at .9"wc ESP or even 1". The Bosch coil on the C width is a little over .35" at the 1480, even if it were at .4" that would be par for a 4 ton C width and not any different then any brand we service. Your exceeding 1" is from another factor, usually duct work and then then return 75% of the time, you can measure different points to see where your getting that high of a static from. You will eventually get B3 errors from high static and the blower will stop operating. That model, in applications I have been on, operates great at .7 or .8"wc Total ESP. The ESP of .7 is easily achievable in 99% of applications.