In 2021 I went on a big bow hunt in London, where I live. Tried so many bows! Some interesting and lively modern bows, starting at £5k. Lots of Lamys…so many Lamys! A bit too light for me. Around the £13k mark were bows that brought a big tone but lacked flexibility (Dodd, Chardon). I ended up with a Fetique that has a cushion of tone plus flexibility for off the string.
I correctly guessed the $75 bow... because it had the beginner masking tape on it. While they don't sound identical, none of the bows sounds clearly superior in this recording. If the sound we hear is the metric, it would be difficult to justify the $30K bow over the $75 bow. Your comments on the play-ability of the bows are interesting, but if the problem of the cheap Chinese bow is a lack of stiffness, I'm confident that a sufficiently stiff cheap Chinese bow in wood or carbon fiber is out there. And I didn't hear you say much that indicated the $30K bow actually was superior in its playing. I play cello at about a grade 3 level and have had the opportunity to try many bows of different prices and... I can only conclude that one must need to be a much better player before the differences people insist these bows have become discernible. The big take-away I got from my comparison testing was that any bow will sound better than any other if I merely be careful in my bowing.
It's so true a bow makes a difference I'm saying on my sons account , he played violin and when I bought him a thousand dollar bow the action of his bowing was so much better and his flow and attacks , but you got to make sure when you out there buying to make sure you play in a room that the sounds resonate back to you really nice since the sound always travels away from the player , And tank you for sharing all your experiences and knowledge .
I actually guessed it correctly for all 3 bows for their prices. But I must say the difference is not very noticeable - biggest factor is probably the player himself/herself. The second bow sort of gave it away with the blue stickers - usually we won't put sticker on expensive bows haha.
Unfortunately I think imo it was super obvious which was which 😩😂if not for the gold tinsel it was also clear that the other two took more energy to get the same kind of sound. thank you so much for talking about this - I love the way that you organized your info and talked about the difference in bows especially since I’m gonna be trying out a few this weekend!
Fun video and super interesting! I upgraded from a cheap under $100 bow and it's been amazing. Maybe I could have waited since I"ve only been playing 8 months but to me it's been completely worth it 🥳 No need to wait imo
My son atartef cello’s class and his 1st bow eas avcheapest one. Then I went to Brazil and bought a Lombardi professional Bow for about $1k. It’s a huge differnce. I do not regted for any cent. Thank you!
Wow!!! That must have been an Antique's Road Show moment! "Billy, this bow is actually original and worth well over $30,000! How much did you pay for it? Billy...Billy? Oh it seems Billy has fainted!"🥴😵 Oh wait, that would have been me!😂😂😂 I'm pretty sure I have the cheap Chinese special bow. Someday I'll upgrade, but for now, it'll do 🤷🏻♀️
Great video!!! Before considering a new cello, I want to explore bows! A perhaps silly question: Is the nest balance point smack in the middle or do you like it to be slightly towards one end?! Thanks again!
Great video! Now some questions: you might have covered this in a previous video, but what would constitute a practical range (ballpark) of the distance between the hair and the stick? Next, how can you tell if the bow is "balanced?" As a conductor, I used to watch other conductors (and their students) at music conventions "balancing" batons on an outstretched finger. I used to think, "Great . . . is that how you hold it while you conduct?"
I saw in a different video that in the middle of the length, the distance between the hairs and the bow should be a pinky finger height. Slide your pinky finger between them.
I guessed correctly on all three. And I only based my guesses on the sound. #2 was obviously thin sounding compared to number one. #3 seemed to have the fullness of #1, but with added clarity. That was my impression anyway. How much of that was subconsciously influenced by your own knowledge though.... I feel might be hard to say for sure. I'd be very interested to hear some blind (you are not told) testing of different bows.
When I was bow shopping, one thing that I found in doing research is that the bow has to work for both the cello and the cellist. Some bows may make your cello sound awesome when someone else plays it, but it handles "oddly" to you. So if you're going bow shopping, take yourself and your own cello. Playing "your" bow on someone else's cello may also not sound as good as it does with "your" cello, as every cello is different in terms of harmonics and sound reflection from the back of the cello.
However, wouldn't we naturally get the best possible sound out of the bows most closely resembling our current one? (and not get the best sound out of possibly 'superior' bows, which may nonetheless be more different). Muscle memory and all that. Does this potentially make our 1st bows more important than they are usually regarded?
Really difficult to do a truly blinded study comparing the bows, since you may subconsciously use different technique with different bows. Blindfolding can help, although you may still play differently based on how the bow feels in your hand.
As string players have come to realize....they may find a bow that is not as expensive but draws the best sound out of their instrument. I have a Vigneron stick but the frog is not original so got for cheap but it draws such a wonderful sound out of my cello. My teacher tried it on her cello against her expensive bow and I honestly felt mine sounded better.
Try a wonderful 300k bow -or a fine bow between 100k or comparable that is not a collectors stick will make a much silkier sound with a Snow cello. I just played with a really fine bow without known pedigree. There was a difference in the quality and the sound that was huge not louder, but much more refined.
How well do cello bows hold their value? Is there a certain range which is best for holding their value, if/when you decide to sell it? Thank you Billy!!!
So much discussion about "balanced bow" but no real insight as to what that really means... Especially when you walk into a bow shop ... Get out a fulcrum and see if it balances at nine inches? How do you truly judge that a bow you are considering purchasing is "balanced"? BTW - Sadly my current price is in the $2k range...
Good point. If you have had “enough” lessons to know how you sound,and you’ve developed effective foundational technique and an ear to hear the sound you are making then it’s time to at least try some bows that will be an upgrade. You’ll be able to tell right away what difference each bow will make to your playing. I’ve taken my instruments to various shops to try out bows. Some shops will loan them to you for a trial period. Try before you buy especially if there are 3 or more zeros along with the bow’s price.
Billy, the fragments of melody you played are not going to allow you to test the bows. True, some features of ease of playing and tone might show up, but the response of the bow under rapid and complex articulation is one area where the bow shows its quality. The full range of the instrument was not used. Harmonics were not used in your test. We didn't learn much, actually.
I agree with these ladies; I thought the video was super helpful for a musician picking up a new instrument. I don’t think the video was created for people who know what you seem to know already, but it was perfect for me. Thanks for sharing Billy, -love your videos!
First of all, I can’t believe how much time and effort you pour into creating these videos for the world to enjoy FOR FREE! Thank you for passing on the love of music and making it entertaining in the meantime! What a cool comparison to be able to make! Thanks for taking the time to be sharing your experience with us, Billy!
First move, get some much better strings on your student model. This will improve the sound no end. Then go for a better bow. A good luthier will have some decent 2nd hand options too.
Aw, dude, I could tell by the way you handled the third bow....like a precious baby! so beautiful.
In 2021 I went on a big bow hunt in London, where I live. Tried so many bows! Some interesting and lively modern bows, starting at £5k. Lots of Lamys…so many Lamys! A bit too light for me. Around the £13k mark were bows that brought a big tone but lacked flexibility (Dodd, Chardon). I ended up with a Fetique that has a cushion of tone plus flexibility for off the string.
I correctly guessed the $75 bow... because it had the beginner masking tape on it.
While they don't sound identical, none of the bows sounds clearly superior in this recording. If the sound we hear is the metric, it would be difficult to justify the $30K bow over the $75 bow.
Your comments on the play-ability of the bows are interesting, but if the problem of the cheap Chinese bow is a lack of stiffness, I'm confident that a sufficiently stiff cheap Chinese bow in wood or carbon fiber is out there.
And I didn't hear you say much that indicated the $30K bow actually was superior in its playing.
I play cello at about a grade 3 level and have had the opportunity to try many bows of different prices and... I can only conclude that one must need to be a much better player before the differences people insist these bows have become discernible. The big take-away I got from my comparison testing was that any bow will sound better than any other if I merely be careful in my bowing.
It's so true a bow makes a difference I'm saying on my sons account , he played violin and when I bought him a thousand dollar bow the action of his bowing was so much better and his flow and attacks , but you got to make sure when you out there buying to make sure you play in a room that the sounds resonate back to you really nice since the sound always travels away from the player ,
And tank you for sharing all your experiences and knowledge .
I actually guessed it correctly for all 3 bows for their prices. But I must say the difference is not very noticeable - biggest factor is probably the player himself/herself.
The second bow sort of gave it away with the blue stickers - usually we won't put sticker on expensive bows haha.
Unfortunately I think imo it was super obvious which was which 😩😂if not for the gold tinsel it was also clear that the other two took more energy to get the same kind of sound. thank you so much for talking about this - I love the way that you organized your info and talked about the difference in bows especially since I’m gonna be trying out a few this weekend!
Fun video and super interesting! I upgraded from a cheap under $100 bow and it's been amazing. Maybe I could have waited since I"ve only been playing 8 months but to me it's been completely worth it 🥳 No need to wait imo
So what cello are you playing on this video? It sounds good
My son atartef cello’s class and his 1st bow eas avcheapest one. Then I went to Brazil and bought a Lombardi professional Bow for about $1k. It’s a huge differnce. I do not regted for any cent. Thank you!
Wow!!! That must have been an Antique's Road Show moment! "Billy, this bow is actually original and worth well over $30,000! How much did you pay for it? Billy...Billy? Oh it seems Billy has fainted!"🥴😵 Oh wait, that would have been me!😂😂😂
I'm pretty sure I have the cheap Chinese special bow. Someday I'll upgrade, but for now, it'll do 🤷🏻♀️
How fun! The only one I could tell was different was the $75. And I learned a bit about valuation. :)
Great video!!! Before considering a new cello, I want to explore bows! A perhaps silly question: Is the nest balance point smack in the middle or do you like it to be slightly towards one end?! Thanks again!
Great video! Now some questions: you might have covered this in a previous video, but what would constitute a practical range (ballpark) of the distance between the hair and the stick? Next, how can you tell if the bow is "balanced?" As a conductor, I used to watch other conductors (and their students) at music conventions "balancing" batons on an outstretched finger. I used to think, "Great . . . is that how you hold it while you conduct?"
I saw in a different video that in the middle of the length, the distance between the hairs and the bow should be a pinky finger height. Slide your pinky finger between them.
I have a rule not to spend more than the federal poverty level for a bow.
😂👏🏽👍🏽🙏🏽🇮🇱🇺🇸🇵🇷
I guessed correctly on all three. And I only based my guesses on the sound. #2 was obviously thin sounding compared to number one. #3 seemed to have the fullness of #1, but with added clarity. That was my impression anyway. How much of that was subconsciously influenced by your own knowledge though.... I feel might be hard to say for sure. I'd be very interested to hear some blind (you are not told) testing of different bows.
When I was bow shopping, one thing that I found in doing research is that the bow has to work for both the cello and the cellist. Some bows may make your cello sound awesome when someone else plays it, but it handles "oddly" to you. So if you're going bow shopping, take yourself and your own cello. Playing "your" bow on someone else's cello may also not sound as good as it does with "your" cello, as every cello is different in terms of harmonics and sound reflection from the back of the cello.
great advice! thanks!
However, wouldn't we naturally get the best possible sound out of the bows most closely resembling our current one? (and not get the best sound out of possibly 'superior' bows, which may nonetheless be more different). Muscle memory and all that. Does this potentially make our 1st bows more important than they are usually regarded?
Really difficult to do a truly blinded study comparing the bows, since you may subconsciously use different technique with different bows. Blindfolding can help, although you may still play differently based on how the bow feels in your hand.
Is there any place which sells the Siegfried ?
As string players have come to realize....they may find a bow that is not as expensive but draws the best sound out of their instrument. I have a Vigneron stick but the frog is not original so got for cheap but it draws such a wonderful sound out of my cello. My teacher tried it on her cello against her expensive bow and I honestly felt mine sounded better.
I liked the 1st one more
So did I.
Try a wonderful 300k bow -or a fine bow between 100k or comparable that is not a collectors stick will make a much silkier sound with a Snow cello. I just played with a really fine bow without known pedigree. There was a difference in the quality and the sound that was huge not louder, but much more refined.
How well do cello bows hold their value? Is there a certain range which is best for holding their value, if/when you decide to sell it? Thank you Billy!!!
What cello is this?? It sounds amazing!!
Excellent. Now what about bow hair?
Thank you so much !
From WORST to best (in my opinion): #1, #3, #2 ...
Hah!!! Thank goodness I have cheap taste!!! X-D
So much discussion about "balanced bow" but no real insight as to what that really means...
Especially when you walk into a bow shop ... Get out a fulcrum and see if it balances at nine inches?
How do you truly judge that a bow you are considering purchasing is "balanced"?
BTW - Sadly my current price is in the $2k range...
Insane! Does that mean my permanbuc bows are crap because I didn’t pay thousands!
I have that shirt!
That was fun 😄
I actually liked the sound of the second one more than the other two. Great for my wallet I guess.
I can’t hear anything….
If you started playing as an adult, don’t waste you money on a bow, take more lessons🤷♀️
Good point. If you have had “enough” lessons to know how you sound,and you’ve developed effective foundational technique and an ear to hear the sound you are making then it’s time to at least try some bows that will be an upgrade. You’ll be able to tell right away what difference each bow will make to your playing. I’ve taken my instruments to various shops to try out bows. Some shops will loan them to you for a trial period. Try before you buy especially if there are 3 or more zeros along with the bow’s price.
30k for a wooden stick, this smells of 18 century NFT :D
The difference being, in the 23rd century the wooden stick will still exist and hold value and the NFT will be a link to a dead image hosting site
@@sclurbs4298 very expensive dead link :D
Billy, the fragments of melody you played are not going to allow you to test the bows. True, some features of ease of playing and tone might show up, but the response of the bow under rapid and complex articulation is one area where the bow shows its quality. The full range of the instrument was not used. Harmonics were not used in your test. We didn't learn much, actually.
I learned plenty from the video and found the test super fun! Thanks for all your wonderful free content Billy, we’re blessed by your generosity!
I thought this video was super helpful, Billy! It's interesting to hear how a bow can make just as much of a difference in sound as the cello itself.
I agree with these ladies; I thought the video was super helpful for a musician picking up a new instrument. I don’t think the video was created for people who know what you seem to know already, but it was perfect for me. Thanks for sharing Billy, -love your videos!
First of all, I can’t believe how much time and effort you pour into creating these videos for the world to enjoy FOR FREE! Thank you for passing on the love of music and making it entertaining in the meantime! What a cool comparison to be able to make! Thanks for taking the time to be sharing your experience with us, Billy!
When it’s time for an upgrade (from a student setup) and with limited budget, do you upgrade the cello first, or the bow first?🥲🥲
First move, get some much better strings on your student model. This will improve the sound no end. Then go for a better bow. A good luthier will have some decent 2nd hand options too.