Kia e-Niro Geilo test
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- čas přidán 2. 11. 2020
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Can confirm - it’s roughly November
Really appreciate your tests Björn. So good to see how these cars fare in real situations in the nordics. Thanks a bunch!
Love my E-niro and im very pleased with the winter range
Thanks for another great video. Great car was looking at one but couldn’t get one quick enough 12 months wait maybe in 3 years
Real life usage and stats, thanks very much !
I updated the A Better Router planner for my Kia Soul EV as many of my same trips I had 18.3KWH per 100km on 2 long trips, so I plug in 177 verses 212 default so same over estimates on the Kia E-Soul.
your race with Chris to Trondheim should how one could do "yo-yo" ( accelerate hard and then regeneration ) to lift battery them by a .5°C or so, If you did it over the last five to ten miles. That will help withhold gate. Bought Niro last year and now have 22,000 miles on it. Love it, but Kia could be a lot more forthcoming with data about how the car systems works. Battery temp gauge has helped me understand more about the car and charging. They have a battery conditioning display, which I have never seen any numbers on. Looked at your ID3 test, and it seemed similar enough that would not buy it, as an upgrade. I like the efficiency and the regeneration control. Glad that you tested it again, Thank you
Yes, we experienced a similar difference between actual consumption and ABRP consumption descending from the Cascades in Washington state to sea level with the Niro.
Maybe it has to do with the different spec levels. The New Zealand models have a induction heater so use a lot more power when it is cold.
Most weekend trips with car are under 300km from home., mostly even under 250km. So this trip is really relevant for many people in Europe.
I love you're video's man , this man here know his EV's, looking forward to you're Ford Mach-E tests ;) 😎
I had my Kia E-soul with a 12Deg.C battery, arrived at a charger, it initiated the heater almost immediately, and sustained the heater till 19deg.C. which did not take to long.
Hi Nice Video. Here in Germany our Niro Takes 15,8khw After 4000km . We have a Warm Oktober :-) !
Would love to see you test the MG5 estate. I tested one next to the Nero. I hated the Nero. Nice inside but very lively when accelerating tracking road imperfections. It also indersteered horribly. The MG5 was a far superior ride.
That camera is insane 💪
cold gating while November has only started!! Ill stick to preheate comfort in the TSLA 😂👍🏽
1st nice. Test Björn im like this Art of Test 👍
Great vids Bjorn .. quick question, tried to find the tune you used for this vid in your playlist...no can find. Mind dropping the name of that tune?
Keep up the good work. More ev’s comin in 2021! Thanks again.
@9:21. Better Route Planner might have to little data about e-Niro power consumption in the "wild". They probably set conservative values from vehicle manufacturer.
Nice video as always from the EV-King 👍🙂
Damn good headlights
Is better lighting in new Kia E Niro caused by better LED headlights or by new camera you are shooting video with? The lights look like having very good spread and hopefully do not bother incoming drivers.
Nice video.
@Born Nyland, what do you think about the lane assist of the E-Niro or whatever they call it, is it good at steering in the lane ? I don't think I ever hear you mention these things, how would it compare to VW's Travel Assist in the id.3 or id.4 ?
You can be happy for 55kW(150A). With battery temperature under 15 deg.C car is charging power only 40kW (105A).
@@mjk8019 Leaf is charging with 75kW? Coldgate is not a big problem on eNiro & 50kW DC.
@@evRoadTripsSvk Leaf+ has shown up to 69kW on a 100kW Chademo charger. (Rare)
Any plans on doing the Geilo test with a Model 3 in winter conditions?
Wie geil
what app and obd2 dongle are u using björn? cuz i'm driving a smart fortwo EQ and i'd really like to know more about the battery stuff :D
What is the range difference between Niro and your model 3? Niro seems a very efficient car but above 90km/h when I simulate my trips with ABPR ( lot of road with 110-130km/hour ) , model 3 arrive at destination with 15% more battery than Niro for a 300km , it is a lot more or maybe explain by the bigger battery ?
Hyundai/Kia cars are really masters of efficiency. Can not wait for models build on the new EV platform.
I have seen a comparison between Model 3 and Kona - 5 people in Tesla, 4 in Kona - each going for a trip around country in like 25 °C. Kona had a ski rack. However the consumtion was better than M 3
It is a very known fact that Teslas, when you pull a trailer or put a ski rack, bikes or something on the car, the consumtion increase is higher than on other EVs
Anyway, does this result mean it would beat Tesla Model 3 at this route in the same weather conditions?
I know three people with Kia Soul EVs, and they all get better than the EPA range rating. Yes, extremely efficient cars, especially if you don't have a lead foot.
First fastcharge with the Kia and Hyundai is always not full power. Even in summer.
The heater I saw only when it is really cold. So below 10degrees.
I drive a 2019 Hyundai Kona 64kWh
Not only first charging.. We drove 800km in march (-5degC .. 0degC) .. and we hit coldgate on each of 4 chargers (125-130kmh speed didn't help). We often hit on 2 coldgates on same time (40kW except 75kW).
Thanks again Bjorn for your informative video. If the e-Niro could pre-heat the battery before charging and charging peak of around 100kw it would be a more impressive vehicle. Cheers 👍
Max charging speed is 75 kW, not 100 kW, as mentioned in this video and many other videos.
@@bjornnyland Hi Bjorn. Sorry I think you've understood what I said. To put it another way I WISH the e-Niro could charge at a peak of around 100kw and to be able to pre heat the battery before fast charging. Thanks for the reply Bjorn and hope that makes more sense. Cheers 👍
The majority of EV owners charge their batteries at home on overnight low cost tariffs. For the majority of journeys, public charging is irrelevant. For these EV owners the E Niro is an efficient, low cost, highly equipped, powerful and comfortable choice. E Niro for the win!!!
I’ve been told that if you use the inbuilt Satnav to a charging station, the car pre heats the battery before arrival.
I already use navigation to the fast charger.
@bjorn did you find out why battery heater didn’t kick in?
You say you would choose the E-Niro over the Kona EV despite the claim that the Kona doesn't have the torque limiter that the E-Niro does. It seems the Kona was favored due to its get up and go feature vs. the E-Niro being held back in software.
Looking at the stats you've shown, the Geilo test you did with Model 3 was during summer, right? Can you repeat it during winter, please?
Ok
What would a Tesla SR+ do on the same trip do you think?
I am trying to figure out what this trip would have cost in fuel. I see that you charged 104kwh. I would pay in Holland at a shell recharge .35c kWh so would the calculation be 104x .35c= €36.4
Hi Bjorn, Regarding Reku power of the 64kWh model - what are your experiences in summer/winter?
I just had the chance to ride an ID3 Max 58kWh in "Sport" mode up and down my local mountain (500hm on 5km). Reku performance with "e-pedal assistants" and little brake pedal use oscillated between 50kW and 85kW, excellent!
The battery had 65% SoC and probably 10-15°C.
Unfortunately I could not find a graphic representation of the consumption curve. The software was not up to date according to the dealer.
My fear would be:
Is the e-Niro Reku limited to 55kW and less at cell temperatures below 25°C, analogous to the charge curve?
Or is one less conservative with recuperation?
Seems It's not limited. At 10°C I got with braking on (empty) highway 150-170kW reku power. And accel kick-downs 120-150kW.
The lights on your drive back look very impressive. Led I assume. Older Nero was Projection. Auto dip? Also car has Sunroof so that would be ENero 4+ in UK. Ventilated Memory Seats too? That not on the older version
It seemed bright because of new camera.
@@bjornnyland Ok so how are the lights on the car with the human eye? Good, Bad or OK?
KiaBjorn :) Are you happy with your new camera and other equipment?
Yes
Hey Björn
Wich Android A die you User for the OBD2?
LG Roland
Do you think Kia overprotecting the battery? I'm sure the battery could take more than 1C charging but they choose to play it safe to prevent battery degradation?
Yes
Would it be an easy fix for Kia to program the battery heater to start when DC charging and battery temp =
Starting heater on the DC charger is too late. Bat. must be preheated on the road like a Tesla.
Was this the new camera or Niro jas one of the best lights in the game? At night they looked so damn bright 10:30
Yes, new camera.
I thoght that the light in the Eniro was bad in the race with the Ethron. But with the new camera it looks much better!
The image quality seems very good to me. Is this the new DSLR?
Yes
*DSLR
@@Moody_Blues_ I am a noob :) I don't know what is this :)
@@Moody_Blues_ I mean these bulky cameras with some mirror magic inside. Forgive me I am Bavarian. We call it Spiegel Reflex Kamera. Ok I cheated and corrected it 🥳
@@hawedehre Spejl Refleks kamera for the win ;-)
Hi Bjorn. The battery heater has been programmed to not start after 20C. So it relies on the implicit heat buildup to get to 25C. The car also cools down at 35C and limits charging (#HotGate/#RapidGate ?!) so probably it is like a buffer so it is not heated too much and then it has to be cooled down almost immediately after.
This is my observation as an owner. It's not written in any manual and it's probably programmed into the OBC. Maybe future firmware updates will change this.
I learned to live with it and I appreciate the slightly better efficiency (the heaters take up energy that I am paying for).. but it is more expensive if you are paying per minute like in Norway because of the lower charge speed.
This is indeed inconvenient if you arrive with 20C battery temperature at a fast charger. I have an e-Niro and I observed this behavior as well.
Hey Radu. What app/ OBD are you using for your e-Niro? I've noticed also that sometimes I can't charge with more than 40-45kW on a 50kW charger and would want to look closer into some stats myself. Thanks!
@@cosminjordache I used an ELM 327 blue dongle with the same tool that Bjorn is using. I also bought Torque Pro but strangely it would not connect.
40-45 kwh on 50 kwh charger is normal with Niro since some 50 kwh chargers only output 115-120 Amps and the pack voltage is 340-390 (after 75% it throttles anyway) - if you multiply the two you get between 40-48 kwh.
@@raduioanitescu6704 thanks for the reply. What's the app name? Because in the video description Bjorg has included ScanMyTesla, but it doesn't look like
@Cosmin Iordache Car scanner worked for me. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ovz.carscanner
Where is the Kiabjørn sweater :(
@bjørn: What would be the better choice range and charging wise: E-Niro or Kona ?
thanks got answered in the video :-D
But what about cold gate. What car does not have it ?
e-tron, classic Ioniq and Tesla
What is these winds app?
Is efficiency linked to "coldgate"?
Yeah I have the same question. 🤔
Kia e Niro is one of the very good choices for an EV (especially for families).
Big space
Very efficient
Big battery
Not so fast charging though but ok.
@@mjk8019 ID.3 1st has coldgate too .. Outside temp was 10degC and ID.3 was charging 35kW... (Niro is 42kW in same temp).
It's a great car, but the 2020 or 2021 Soul EV for me. Its better use of internal space, and the fact that it's easier to park, and that it has the heads-up display, beat any advantages the e-Niro has, for me. A Niro EV with the heads-up display would be much harder to say no to, though.
@@mjk8019 in Poland, ID.3 is more expensive...
@@mjk8019 Sorry, I’m talking about real cars you can get at dealership, not the car with smaller battery which will be available next year. Pure is unavailable! Right now you can get 1st Plus (194390 PLN ~ 42823 EUR) or 1st Max (215990 PLN ~ 47581 EUR) without test drive miles on it. Price of Plus is the roughy the same or as M3 SR+ (199990 PLN ~ 44055 PLN for FL with heat pump or 189990 PLN for pre-FL w/o heat pump) in Poland.
I have just checked ID.3 (non 1st) price and there is no Pure available for order. Pro Performance is the cheapest available and it costs 155890 PLN (~34344 EUR). I have a written confirmation that discounts are not available for ID.3. Only used models will be cheaper.
eNiro 64 kWh is only slightly more expensive in cheapest configuration (M - 167990 PLN ~ 37012 EUR) and KIA gives up to 7% professional or green discounts (156231 PLN ~ 34415 EUR).
Hvilken app bruker du for å se batteri-temperatur m.m?
Car Scanner
I heard J-Lo all the time! 😬
Sad day when a Ninja puts more trust in a App than in his own knowledge.
JK
Sad day when my follower didn't pay attention to what I said in the video.
JK
Any chance you know what is you average speed (excluding stops). This info is very relevant for comparing to average consumption. I cannot find this info in model 3 computer , all info is about consumption not speed ;)
Look at 5:52. 230 km / 3 hours = 77 km/h quick math
@@bjornnyland great , thanks for taking time to answer. That’s explain a lot then the good consumption perf. That car is really a good deal for the people that don’t plan too much « quick « drive (above 100km/h) and long distance (above 300km) I believe that for more motorway drive and long distance at least in Fr/De/Ch , Tesla still has a much more practical loading network on motorways or nearby. I recommend a lot the E Niro videos and to do a car test drive for people that are « scared » of Tesla because of price and technology.
What if you drive like a crazy man, by accelerating hard for a few seconds, then regen, then doing it over and over again provided it’s safe, would that heat up the battery?
Are you not subscribed to my channel yet? ;)
czcams.com/video/UFfgktgy7Pw/video.html
@@bjornnyland oh lol, I am, but those long form videos I watch while cleaning, kinda like podcast, so I sometimes miss something.
Can you advise what software you use again please - checking the charge/battery temp etc. :) Thanks :)
Car Scanner
@@bjornnyland Thanks much appreciated.
@@bjornnyland can you provide us with a link?
@@ltfutt70 Type Car Scanner in Play Store it will be there :)
Bjorn, you have an OBDLink and EV Notify, why don’t you upload your live data from the Niro to ABRP to increase the accuracy from ABRP?
I think the app you are using in this video isn’t one that pushes live data to ABRP.
I don't have EV Notify.
@@bjornnyland ah. I thought you did as you mentioned it in a video or two ago. It’s very good. 👍🏻
Hi Bjørn. Thanks for all your prolific work. I don’t know how you find the time.
Please tell me what is the app you are using for battery data monitoring? I have the 2020 E Niro and would like to use the same. Thanks. Peter
Such a shame winter mode seems useless. At least by what we mortals expect it to do :). There isn't too much info about this, but it seems our understanding of the winter mode, BMS and preheating the battery is totally wrong. As I understand it battery has 4 "big" modules and the BMS monitors min temperature of each module. For example, if just one module has a temperature under 25C you can't have full DC power. Also it seems that BMS fires up the heating only in "extreme" conditions (example, SOC under 33% and temp -5C).
I wonder how heating the cabin does to battery heating? If we set it to 25/26C while charging maybe the heating difference would trick the BMS somehow? (Maybe someone with better knowledge could explain if I'm talking nonsense)
I'm quoting the forum (for Kona), and maybe you can try it:
"Good to know on fast chargers:
Battery temp < 1 degC : max power 18 kW
1 degC > Battery temp > 5 degC: max power 25 kW
5 degC > Battery temp > 15 degC : max power 40 kW
15 degC > Battery temp > 25 degC: max power 50 kW (50kW chargers) or 56 kW (>100kW chargers)
Battery temp > 25 degC: max power > 70 kW (>100kW chargers)"
Link to the forum: www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/kona-ev-winter-mode-defined-and-condensed.7977/#post-91617
Cabin temp didn't help here is Slovakia. Winter mode is bat.care for < -5C - that's ok .. Car in outside temp 0 - 25C is in LTR (low temperature mode). We need to enable PTC mode during LTR phase on demand. Like a Tesla - bat.preheating before charger or manually add 2 items to cluster/infotainment/UVO - 1. bat. preheat for 50kW charging (15 deg.C) or 2. bat. preheat for UFC >50kW ... (25 deg.C).
electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/
The good point is, it could be done by a software update, as Bjørn mentioned
@@neuromancer777 Bad thing is that they didn't fix it after 3 years :) ... Kona/Niro is here from 2018 and still the same charging graph & bms conditions & no preheat feature.
@@evRoadTripsSvk maybe they need some more pressure. Write support Emails Spam them with it :-D
@@neuromancer777 I did :-) Emails to UVO app developer, many graphs with coldgate to local Kia Service/Import. It needs more people in several countries or better contacts to infotainment/cluster sw developers :-) But good is that still more and more people know about coldgate, temperature levels & limitations.
Battery heater only kicks in if the battery is below 10 degrees.. it will use it to get speeds up to 50kW, but will not heat up to 25degrees for max. Charging performance. Sadly
Nope, it also works above 10°C:
czcams.com/video/UFfgktgy7Pw/video.html
@@bjornnyland not in my experience.. temp sensor is only in the cooling circuit measuring the coolant temperature. That 22c with a battery internal temp of 19,5c can also be warmed up slighly by residual heat from other systems like the motors and electronics as soon as the car stops, and the radiator stops working effectively. If the battery heater kicks in, below 10c pack temperature is where i've seen it, the coolant liquid heats up very quickly to over 40c. Strangly, as soon as it hits desired pack temperature it will actively cool the coolant loop back to battery temperature again. It is then also displayed as power in the infotainment system in the power overview where electronics, drive, and airconditioning power usage is displayed there is also a battery conditioning percentage. It is usually zero, exept when you start DC charging with pack temp below 10c
hi beam looks good, what do you think, Bjørn?
They are in fact a bit weak.
@@bjornnyland Maybe it your new cama that trik me...
@ The switch to the camcorder at 10:53 illustrates the output of the dipped beam well, the new camera is almost too good in the dark.
Is there still no connected app for e-Niro?
There is app. Mentioned in the video several times.
The headlights look better than the other day, also?
Better camera, that's why.
@@bjornnyland Ah I see :)
Is there any other country where cold gate would be an issue ? Over here it could get frosty, but DC chargers are really scarce anyway.
Yes, here in Slovakia I am hitting UFC coldgate ~9 months per year. I am living in the flat and our city has no AC/DC charger. So coldgate takes me lot of time on chargers. A big problem is coldgate over 2 or more levels (outside temp 5deg.C -> 1st coldgate is 15degC -> 2nd is 25degC).. ~6-7 months is avg. temp < 10degC and stay somewhere 5-75% soc - 40 min (75kW) or 1:20 (42kW) is a big difference. DC50kW - is ok..It needs only 15degC. and difference between 105A and 125A ... is only ~7-8kW.
Tesla still the only one to do the trip on one charge 👀
@@Pete856 true true, I just looked at numbers quick 🤣
I really wish Tesla would make superchargers at Geilo
Why? Circle K already has 3x150 kW there.
Bjorn
7:40 I see it's marked but.... have you tried to turn it off and on again?
(seriously)
Seriously, it doesn't help.
@@bjornnyland it will....in may :p My e-Soul charged fast until outside temp dropped below 10 celsius... But if they would bother enable the battery heater. That would be great for long trips in winter.
So the classic Ioniq will beat the e-Niro in winter when both cars start with same amount of energy in the batteries?
Ioniq is more efficient but e-Niro has more range.
@@bjornnyland And the classic Ioniq can charge faster in winter.
Do you mean 64 kWh, 28 kWh or same SoC? Classic ioniq wouldn't make it to Geilo in winter
Ioniq has a "flat" shape that's very efficient, it's not a crossover. Can't compare the two, they're a different category of cars with different strenghts.
@@gaueko8331 A winter race, not to Geilo, where the race starts with both cars start charging at 1% SoC at an HPC station. If the Ioniq has stopped charging and left (ideally at 78%), the e-Niro can decide to stay longer or not. One requirement is that the Ioniq can always charge at HPCs located very close to the route in order to lose not too much time. I don't know if such a route exists in Norway.
I have heard that Tesla is the best selling EV in Korea. I don't understand how can that be. I know Tesla is a better car. Tax exceptions or export incentives might be the reason.
You just said it. Tesla is the better car.
It feels like a waste of money to charge at ionity unless you are in a real rush with this cold gate issue. More bang for the buck with cheaper 50kw chargers.
Grønn Kontakt, Fortum, BKK and Circle K offers 150 kW fast chargers for about half the price of Ionity drop-in. But for Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW and other paid members, Ionity is very cheap and way way cheaper than the other charge point operators I mentioned.
@@bjornnyland gotcha. I was traveling in Finland last week with my e-niro and it was basically 0.22 euro/min for 50kw vs 0.85 euro/min on the route I traveled. Easy choice if you ask me 😂
Ionity doesn't charge per minute. They charge per kWh.
@@bjornnyland ah you are right my mistake :)
In Finland Ionity actually does cost per minute. Good if you have a Taycan, bad if you have an e-niro, especially on a cold day.
tow hitch?????
Yes
What route planner do you use? Any suggestions from other users?
ABRP
@@bjornnyland Thanks. I wanted to have a look at some of the EV apps as I wait for my e-Niro to be delivered in a few weeks 😀
Hey Björn, why did you use Twitter anymore?
I never use Twitter?
@@bjornnyland but you have an account. Anyway, I was sending you a few things at twitter and I was not sure if you use it anymore. But I'm sure you hear the hole stuff somewhere else. Like "FSD for Norway" and "Tesla talks with Thailand"
ENiro “can” now take 100kw as part of the 2020 refresh
nope
@@cetanpo per spec it “should”
No, Kia state that it can use a 100kW charger BUT the maximum spec. charge it can achieve is c.77kWh. Only one owner has reported a higher value, 79kWh, but that may be due to charger device errors.
Incorrect. kWh = energy, kW = power
@@malcolmjohnson9875 eNiro max current is 200A (bat.temp from 25 up to 35degC)... P [W] =U [V] .I [A] Thats why on higher soc% is power higher. At 58% soc is voltage 378 * 200A = ~75 600 W. At 3% SOC is voltage only 347 * 200A = 69 400 W. As you can see.. Full speed on low SOC% is less than 75kW most of the time.. Optimally this 200A phase is running up to 53% (~winter) or 58% (~summer), then BMS limit current by SOC% to max. 150A (up to 73 .. 78% soc) .. You can see it here czcams.com/video/UaJqGzBvvzs/video.html
@Bjørn Nyland: Someone solved the coldgate. Maybe you can do a test and tell us how many kick downs we need to heat the battery:
czcams.com/video/7SSTWaTNYPg/video.html
I also talked about the coldgate in a German forum and one person said that the battery heater only works till the battery has 20°C. If you charge fast, the remaining 5 °C (If the battery has 25°C, you get the full speed) need to be done by the charging process which take quite long.