First roast with the Gene Cafe - To Easy?
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- First roast with the Gene Cafe - To Easy? With just a push of the button I was able to get a decent roast. The Gene Cafe isn't a drum roaster or a typical fluid bed roaster. It is more of a hybrid roasters that uses a drum to move the beans and hot air to heat them up. It is using a "hot box that blows heated air into the drum. The concept is kind of like a Loring BUT it isn't. This is a popular home coffee roaster but many have commented it is limited to the type of roasting it can do. Today's video is a starting point using the Gene Cafe. It was my First roast with the Gene Cafe - To Easy? Take a look for yourself.
Special thanks to The Captains Coffee (thecaptainscoffee.com/) for letting me borrow their Gene Cafe coffee roaster. David did a really helpful video "Gene Cafe ULTIMATE Beginner's Guide! | CBR-101 Home Coffee Roasting Tutorial" for those who want to know how to operate this unique home roaster. You can see the video here: • Gene Cafe ULTIMATE Beg...
What type of questions do you have about home coffee roasting. Comment below OR go to my community tab and answer my post!
Video Timeline
0:00 First roast with the Gene Cafe - To Easy?
1:45 Closer Look at the Gene Cafe
3:00 Preheating the Gene Cafe
4:06 Roasting a Timor coffee on the Gene Cafe
5:00 Charging the Gene Cafe
10:45 Dry End
14:15 First Crack
15:32 Drop & Cool The Coffee
16:40 Roast Profile Review
18:30 Tasting The Coffee
19:30 What is next with the Gene Cafe?
20:10 First Impressions of the Gene Cafe
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For lower altitude beans, or low density beans, a dehydration phase of about 392 to 402 is just about right. For higher altitude beans a higher dehydration temperature is workable.
Keep in mind the reported temperature is of the air exhausting from the beans. It does not mean the beans are at that temperature. The beans are usually MUCH cooler than the exhaust temperature.
I use an optical pyrometer pointed to the exact same spot of the drum on each rotation to measure temperature. I call full yellow when the drum measures 300 degrees F with a 1/2 pound (227 gram) load. I arrived at this temperature by multiple different beans and observing the color AND optical pyrometer temperature across several different roasts.
Use a cardboard tube at the exhaust and your ear on the other end of the tube to more clearly hear first crack.
First crack reads about 345 degrees F via the optical pyrometer. This is useful because some Peaberry beans and some Decaf coffees have a VERY quiet crack.
Forced air cooling is ideal. I have my cooler about 3 feet from my roaster.
Be sure to use the release button to pull the drum out. Otherwise you create excessive wear on the drum release mechanism. In the video he did not press it to remove the drum at the end of the roast.
The cool down phase ends when the exhaust air drops below 140 degrees F on the Gene temperature display.
Below is a roast cycle for the Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Misty valley beans which are known for a blueberry flavor hit.
. For those with the Gene Cafe roaster, here was the profile used: 8 oz, 227 grams starting, 7.0 oz 199 grams weight after roasting (12.5% loss).
Pre-warm the empty drum for 5 minutes at 402 F. Rapidly add your beans and re-insert the drum into the Gene Cafe. (be quick!). Clear your kitchen timer and start timer and the roast at 402 F.
Stay at this temperature for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes have elapsed, raise the temperature to 473 F . First pop of first Crack will be likely heard at about 10:15 on the kitchen timer,
Reduce temperature to 437 F (225C) one minute ten seconds after the first pop of first crack is heard.
Continue at this temperature until Full-City roast is reached (About 13 minutes and 30 seconds).
Rapidly cool externally to the Gene Cafe to stop the roast process. I include this because the Gene Cafe roasts a bit different than classical drum roasters, so the roast profile is tuned for the Gene Cafe Roaster.
A Kona, low altitude South American bean, or a Geisha beans are roasted at lower temperatures. Typically 392 dehydrate, 464 roast, 450 development.
Thanks for watching my video.
Very interesting, you are setting a temp for each phase. With regards to the optical pyrometer, how do you know if you are measuring beans rather than the glass? I have a laser temperature sensor I will try and compare. I agree the bean temp is rising towards the "air temperature". This is similar to a drum roaster which uses about 70% convection to roast. Truthfully, unless I have a probe on the beans I don't really trust temperatures and use them as guides rather than absolutes. Now, if I could get a bean probe into the roasting chamber that would be enlightening.
Yes, I forgot to use the release button at one point in the video. I'm still trying to get used to all of the in's and out's of the roaster. Thanks for sharing your roasting recipe. I appreciate that.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I hate to answer like this, but it is not a simple answer about bean temperature via optical pyrometer (IR temperature tools). You are correct in that they measure the temperature of the "first surface they encounter".
So let us talk about that temperature. The glass drum is heated by two factors. The first is the temperature of the air blown through the drum. The second is heat conducted through direct contact with the beans. The increase in temperature appears to be more strongly affected by the half-pound of beans, than the air temperature. I logged dozens of roasts minute by minute when I was originally exploring this.
To complicate it further, the outside of the glass is also COOLED by contact with the air OUTSIDE the drum, which makes it read artificially low. However, there is a modifying factor for this. If the "drum shield" is in the down position, hotter air is trapped around the outside of the drum, which means the air outside the drum is Hotter than the air in the room. So, the cooling effect is partially mitigated by the temperature of the air in the room you are roasting in. This will not be the case if you leave the shield open all the time.
In my test roasts, which were used to verify the values seen at different stages of the roast, I was initially logging temperatures measured by the optical pyrometer along side with the visual state of the beans. From this, I was able to corelate full yellow was seen at 300 degrees F, and first crack happened at about 345 degrees F as measured by the optical pyrometer. For these tests I used beans which do a great job of showing a very clear "full yellow", and had a pronounced first crack.
Knowing these temperature values have proven very useful on beans which don't show a clear "full yellow", such as decaf beans. And beans which don't make a pronounced sound at first crack (most decaf, some peaberry beans).
However, these values seem consistent across a wide variety of beans, from low altitude/low density beans, and high altitude/high density beans.
I also added a thermocouple to look at exhaust air temperatures, but that method was less reliable. The only thing of statistical merit was the "dip" in temperature seen at first crack. When the beans are cracking, they are suddenly releasing moisture to the air. That moisture produces adiabatic cooling to the air, and results in a notable dip in temperature.
This temperature dip at first crack is why I leave the temperature setting high for about a minute after first crack is detected, so a "crash" in bean temperature does not happen. Once most of the moisture has been released, then I lower to the development temperature for the rest of the roast.
Thanks for replying. I agree the glass temp would likely "average" the two temps (air/bean). I tried to monitor temps using a probe inserted into the exhaust air. It was interesting but probably not very helpful. The reality is both the Gene Cafe digital temp and my exhaust probe aren't providing accurate temps. I think the exhaust temp could be used with a padded number added. On most of my testing using thermocouples, first crack occurs between 378-392 F. If I take the exhaust air and add a value that would equal "386" at first crack, I wonder what that would look like plotting it on a graph. I'm going to try and see if that makes any sense. My other option is to get a new battery for my laser thermometer and compare ;-)
Great video Mike, a lot of great information on this roaster 👍☕
Thanks Shane. This is very different than our drum roasters BUT it's fun.
❤❤❤ thanks sooo much for your Video Ingo, you are a big help🙏 wish you the best 🍀✨🙌
Hello Andreas, thank you for the encouragement. I'm Mike. Ingo is over at Roast Rebels @CoffeeRoasting . I enjoy his videos very much and he has been a help to me in my roasting Journey.
Are you a farmer/producer?
Just ordered this machine for the first time, this hobby is becoming expensive 😂😂. Thanks for the video, I'm trying to learn how to use it beforehand.
Congrats on your new roaster and thanks for watching. I hope my videos help you roast some great coffee ☕️
Thanks Mike. It was particularly nice seeing this video since I almost bought the Gene Cafe when I started roasting, but opted to go with the Behmor instead. With the mass loss and development percentage you got, it indicates you got a medium roast, and your tasting comments reflected that. Yes, it would be nice to see if it brings out the fruity notes of an Ethiopian Natural. I’m quite sure it would do just fine. It was also good to see the exhaust could be handled quite easily. Looks like you had fun with the GC!
Hi Lou. It is always fun learning about a new roaster. I'm looking forward to a couple of more roast videos with the GC. If I had to decide between the GC and the Behmor I may lean towards the Behmor BUT I've only got one roast in on the GC . I'm enjoying the Gene Cafe. Thanks for your comments.
Love my Gene Cafe. Been roasting on it for over three years. I get a nice even roast every time.
Thanks for watching and for being a subscriber! I'm glad you have had success roasting with the Gene Cafe. Just out of curiosity, are you roasting the same way for all your coffee? I mean, are you roasting differently depending on the type of coffee you roast? I'm also curious how dark you are roasting. I'm kind of polling some of the Gene Cafe users. Thanks.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab no I roast differently depending on bean type. Most roast are medium-dark however some are medium depending on what type flavor/aroma I want from the bean.
For those who don’t have an oven hood that vents outside the exhaust port is sized the same as gas hot water heaters so Lowes Home Depot carries the proper size pipes and clamps to be able to vent out a window
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Mike, Thank you for roasting on the Gene Cafe! I am looking forward to all your upcoming roasts on the Gene Cafe, so I can be ready to upgrade from using a popcorn popper.
Hi Conrad. So you have decided to buy the Gene Cafe as your next roaster or are you still comparing?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I still deciding. I repaired the failed fane motor on my Sweet Maria's Popper and getting some good roasts using a watt meter and a controller as the Popper dial steps the wattage so there I have better temperature control. I would be interested in seeing a video on how the Gene Cafe roasts decaf.
Unfortunately I had to give the roaster back to David @ the captains coffee. I would suggest you ask him if he could do a video. Sorry about that Conrad.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Mike thank you for your reply.
Big help
Thanks for watching. Glad it was helpful.
I never went into the deep science of the roast but focused on visual, nasal and auditory input. The machine is always clean collecting most all chaff. All adjustments are on the fly which gives great control and you will learn about thermal inertia, this has allot. Great roaster once you learn the slowness of energy transfer plus carry-over cooking. Once beans are roasted get them out into a colander. Fan cooling and agitation is a help to halt over-roasting. Gene Cafe is simple and direct once you learn the visuals. I love this roaster with all its shortfalls.
I never used my roaster at a high temp to let run. My approach is about 390-410 to dry beans to nice yellow, raise temp to 465 until first crack then lower to 435 as first crack happens, raise back to 465 for desired color then dump beans to cool. This will be just below or at 2nd crack. I like just before. Fan cool in colander as you load for next roast. Repeat profile.
Helpful info - Thank you. I really do appreciate the unique hybrid heat/air and moving drum.
@@slam854do you live at lower elevation?
I have one I been roasting on for 15 years really is a great roaster
15 years is impressive! Still all original or did you have to fix something during the years?
@@TripleDDDD I had to replace the separator inside the roasting barrel they will ware out after a while but there easy to get parts for all in all it’s a great roaster
@@billgrubbs9316 for 15 years just a separator is impressive. I just recently bouhght a used one 2 to 3 years old. Also checked if spare parts are available. Which let me to buy it. All happy with it. Probably gonna try the grill mesh hack to hear the cracks better.
That is a long time. I noticed how there seemed to be a lot of parts available for the roaster. You could almost build an entire roaster from replacement parts!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I roasted on mine for 7 before I had to buy any parts
Thank you for this video. I have a question. How to properly degas roasted beans? Should they be stored in air tight containers or normal containers will do? Degassing should happen at what temperature? Room temperature or in the refrigerator?
Hi Eugene, thanks for your question. I store my coffee in plastic bags at room temperature. Others will use plastic storage containers. I have seen coffee shops store their fresh roasted coffee in buckets for a few days.
Generally speaking, I start drinking my coffee after it has rested a few days. It is consumed within 7 days after resting. Because I’m drinking the coffee relatively soon I store it in a zip lock type bag or my fellows airtight storage container.
What did you do in the basement to cool the coffee? I'v had a Gene for almost 20 years and I love it. I will definitely try this profile. For years I used the Gene recommended roast and have since changed a few times. I have been very pleased with the Gene. Initially I went through a couple heating elements before the improved the quality of the build. The last heating element has lasted 15 years. I roast 2-3 time a month a couple pounds a session. Great video! I look forward to more Gene videos.
My drum roaster has a cooling tray that i use. It cools the beans very fast. For this roast the beans were cool in less than 30 seconds. Thanks for sharing, watching and subscribing!
After almost a year of roasting with the Gene Cafe I am still very pleased with it. Most of the time, for ease of use I keep the beans in for the cooling cycle. On that note, when you keep them in, up to which temperature would you consider it part of the development time?
Thanks for watching my video and sharing your comments. I like to get my beans under 250 degrees F asap. I have no science to indicate what the temp should be. I was watching a Mill City Coffee Roasting School video and they were talking about bean development. They made a comment that was surprising and made sense. They said "roasted coffee is always developing" even after it cools. The referred to the degassing process. Anyway, i know you were asking specifically about the "roasting development process" but i thought i would mention that.
How long does it take to get your GC down to 250 after cool?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you for the pointers, Mike! To be able to respond I had myself an optical pyrometer delivered, and performed an experiment all in around 24 hours :D I got to 250F after 4min of machine cooling, machine set to 455F for 13min. First crack between 12 and 13 min, and that is why I hope some development is still happening in cooldown. Color was medium, weight loss 15%. Yellowing started at 7 min and browning around 10. Does it sound like a coffee you might enjoy? ;)
Thanks for responding and sharing. There are a lot of variables that will influence taste. Color is king, which correlates to ending roast temperature. You said it is a medium roast based on the color. The weight loss agrees. So, from that aspect, yes, it sounds good. How much time is spend from dry end to first crack will affect the flavors. Also, how long the development phase (first crack till drop) will also make a huge impact. Lastly, but most importantly, the single most important variable in the taste of your coffee will be the green coffee beans you buy. As they say in America, you can't polish a turd.
On a separate note, you are from Bruge? I watched a couple of your videos and you are drinking Robusta coffee? Have you considered Arabica types? Just wondering. Also, on a much lighter note, who makes the best waffles in Bruge? And, who makes the best Frites (fries) in Bruge?
Thanks Mike. I am thinking ahead to when my SR800 craps out as to what to get next. I've had it for 2 years, and had the "guts" replaced once already. Gene Cafe is certainly one of the contenders. I've read that the manufacturer now recommends NOT preheating, as this may lead to premature failure of the roaster. I would certainly be interested in seeing another roast in this, with whatever parameter changes you think might be warranted. Agree that David and Captains Coffee are fantastic resources.
Glad it was helpful J. Hmm, if I had to pick between the SR800 or the Gene Cafe which one would I pick? It is too soon to say but I really really like my SR540. I love the control and it's ability to roast different profiles. They are completely different roasters. What don't you like about the SR800? What is your end goal say.... 5 years from now. Just roasting for you?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab It's not that I don't like the FR, I would just think that for roughly 2x the cost, the Gene Cafe would offer me a better roasting platform. Maybe that's not necessarily true. The Bunafr also looks interesting if they ever come to market. I do just roast for myself, and occasionally for friends and family. Both the modified chaff collector and especially the extension tube are game-changers for the SR800.
I would say the Gene Cafe might not be worth twice that of the SR800 BUT again, I'm still evaluating the GC. I just spoke with the Bunafr folks and hope to have them on my channel soon. Possibly even have a roaster demonstration. That roaster appears to be on a completely different level compared to the typical home roasters. And, the price point is a little higher than the GC. Stay tuned ;-)
I look forward to videos of other home roaster options, especially those that allow some control over the roast, but that are not complicated, as I understand the basics of roasting, but I'm not into the real nerdy aspects. I just want an end result the is full of good flavor and aroma, as opposed to the dull flat baked coffee or nearly burnt I've gotten from the Behmor I currently own.
"I've read that the manufacturer now recommends NOT preheating, as this may lead to premature failure of the roaster."
That's what I was afraid might be the case, but both my Genes eventually lost the ability to finish 200g of beans in 20 minutes. Maybe the newer, higher priced models are different.
Hi Mike. Its a great machine for home roaster. Got mine 2nd hand too. 235C preheat and roasting, (if I increase to 245C, I seem to get alot of smoke so I usually turn it down) around 9min for first crack depending on beans and OAT, finishing around 12-14mins. I'm only giving it 24hrs to degas, should it be more?
Thanks for watching and sharing @BosHK . The degassing is dependent on roast level and other factors. I noticed that my dry process high density Ethiopian needs more time to rest in order to experience maximum flavor. I usually start drinking my coffee a couple of days after roasting and have finished it by day 7 after the roast. Others may like to have their coffee rest longer but it works for me.
Have you noticed a difference in taste on day 4 compared to day 2? Just curious.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I've noticed it has a lot more gas when I pull a shot after 24hrs (more crema, not smooth though)....after a couple more days, I've notice the coffee is smoother, less harsh but I dont drink enough of it daily (at most 2 shots) to really confirm it.
I have a Barista pro arriving today,,,watching a gene on Ebay,,,,, uping my game 🙂
Nice espresso machine. That with the Gene cafe should provide some nice espresso
@@VirtualCoffeeLab machine arrived ,, few days grinder 🙂
Hi Mike, I'd advise weighing ur beans, for a better weight than guessing with this roaster, and for yellowing, I hit at around 230-235 degrees Celsius, and around 14-16 mins depending on the beans, I've also got a video of me roasting, and with the temp drops, the element turns off after reaching to desired temp
Thanks for sharing Kellly. I subscribed :-) and watched :-) your video roasting the brazil natural. Nice. What time did FC happen? What was the roast level at the end of you roast?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike first crack was at about 10-12min in, used the internal cool down at the end of 1st crack, and thanks for subscribing to my channel
For proper roasting and end result of flavor, between Behmor and Gene Cafe, which machine is your first pick? And is there another option for the home roaster that is better, when we want more control over our end roast?
I think that is a great question. In short, every home roasting machine has its strengths and weaknesses. I think the Gene I’d easier to use for someone just learning. I don’t think one is better than the other. The freshroast is another great roaster. It is a little more complex as you have air and heat influencing temperatures and bean movement. You can see me using tat roaster as well. It is different from the others.
The Gene cafe AND the Behmor are promoted by the manufacturers to roast a pound of coffee. I have a feeling you are roasting 1 lb of coffee in the behmore and your coffee is roasting slow and temperatures are not climbing like you would expect. The Gene cafe is a fine roaster. So is the behmore. In order to roast the way we want, we have to get creative. In the case of the gene cafe, I roasted a wonderful fruity light roast in my last video. This would have been impossible to do while roasting 1 pound. I had to change up my temperatures and lower the amount of coffee. Check out my Gene cafe light roast and you will hear me talk about the challenges we have as home roasters.
As far as control goes, I would say the freshroast is more nimble and responsive. There are learning curves for all of them.
I hope my answer was helpful.
Would you suggest this or the fresh roast for someone looking to get a consistent roast rather than looking to experiment? South American beans, typically. Medium Dark, right at or before second crack begins. Looking for chocolate and nutty notes. Looking to step it up from an air popper. It just roasts too fast to get a really good roast, for my tastes.
As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for sharing and your kind comments. Based on your roasting style the Gene Cafe might be the better choice BUT I haven't had much experience roasting darker coffee with the Fresh Roast or the GC. Because the GC has 1 control variable (other than time), it is easier to control. It is also less messy than the Fresh Roast. You can use some flexible venting to vent it out a window too. It can really give some consistent color roasts. That consistency really depends on the beans though. I roasted a Guatemala HueHue on the GC 2 days ago and the color wasn't consistent. I wish the GC didn't cost so much compared to the Fresh Roast.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I hear you about the price. It would be easier to give it a go if it were a bit cheaper. But from what I've seen from you and others, the GC might be the way to go. I'll just have to keep an eye on both for a bit and not rush in.
Thanks again!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab So, I decided to revisit roasting on a popcorn popper before going any further just to see if I could improve things. Well, I didn't agitate the beans (like I see in many videos) and just let them move on their own when they were ready. My results look much more even. First crack still happened around three minutes, but it lasted much longer by leaving it alone. Like an additional minute. And yet another minute longer than normal to hear the first snaps of second crack, where I stopped the roast. About 16.5 percent loss of weight. Now to let them rest about 10 days and pull a few shots. There is only about enough coffee here for one good shot after dialing in, lol.
I really don't know what I hope to learn from this, in the sense of choosing a roaster, but I figured I'd keep you updated. But it kind of has me thinking about the SR800 simply because of the price difference and because I know that if I end up enjoying coffee roasting as much as I enjoy making and drinking espresso then I will want to upgrade in the future to something beyond both roasters.
What if we wanted to take the roast to more of a dark or espresso roast? Should we lower the temp after first crack and then ramp it back up or just let it ride? I’m struggling getting a quality dark roast, my last few, the beans have cratered. Trying to figure out the balance to keep the heat from becoming too excessive between 1st and 2nd crack. 1st crack they are fine, it’s when trying to achieve a dark or espresso dark roast that they seem to get too hot and crater.
Hi Brenden. There are different approaches when it comes to a dark roast or an espresso roast.
Some espresso roasts blend different types of beans. They might have a little fruit from an ethiopian, sweetness from a Central American, and chocolate and nuttty from a brazil. Each of these might be roasted differently. Just some things to consider when roasting for espresso. More on that in a future video.
One way, as you mentioned, is to have a higher ending temperature (literally a darker bean color). The other way is to have a well developed bean. This doesn't have to be dark. It can be a nice medium roast that doesn't get anywhere near 2nd crack.
With regards to your Gene Cafe roasts, you are roasting pretty hot and fast through development based on the cratering. if you want to go darker and need the momentum, you can taper the heat a little just before you go into first crack. A nice gentle rolling first crack is good. Once that gets started you can step down a little more, crack should still continue. Once crack stops, go into the cool mode.
We didn't talk about batch size. The bigger the batch the more momentum you will have as you are entering first crack. So, when you are tapering your heat, the roast won't crash as easy compared to a ligher load roast.
@@VirtualCoffeeLabThank you for replying! Right now I am roasting about 6.8 oz at a time. I pre-heat then start at 400 degrees machine temp for around 3 mins as my drying phase. I’m then ramping up heat to about 465 machine temp until I hear FC, around 9-10 mins. I dial the heat back to 435 at rolling first crack and left it there until the end of the roast. It was taking me about 19 minutes just to get to second crack, but still experiencing craters. Do we think that’s still too hot?
I’ve roasted medium and light using this method and no craters or defects at all.
I have some family and friends asking for dark and espresso like dark, so this was why I was trying to stretch my current profile a bit longer but that’s when I experience the craters.
I thought I had this machine dialed in and was roasting really good light and medium but struggle to produce quality beyond that.
Could it be the smaller batch size? Reduce heat more at FC? I noticed you run full temp, I haven’t tried completely changing my profile and going full heat with dial back adjustments just yet.
You're pushing the coffee too hard in the development phase. Pressure build up in the bean can cause this to happen. Like I said, dark roasts doesn't always mean 2nd crack. I would focus on lowering the temperature like I mentioned. This should reduce the potential for craters. Reducing the batch size could be helpful. If you go down to 4 ounces you should see your roast move along much quicker. Also, it could be your beans that have the issue but I'm guessing it's more the high temps.
How would you compare this with a Behmor? Which makes better coffee? I am looking to buy a new roaster and am having a difficult time deciding between this one and the new Behmor
I have been roasting on a Behmor for several years and while I do like it, it is more fiddly than what this video shows for the Gene Cafe. So your decision might be more of a financial one with the Gene Cafe at ~$650 and the Behmor at ~$479. The Gene Cafe also appears a little more fragile, the Behmor is a bit of a tank and all metal. The 110V version of the Behmor is slightly under powered for 227g roasts unless you like longer roast profiles, which I do.
I used the Gene Café for a number of years and had about 350 roasts with it. It's in storage now and I use a Hottop. I did have to replace the heater assembly after 160 roasts and a little later had to replace the #1 temperature sensor and a printed circuit board. It's definitely good with chaff collection but I had trouble detecting 1C with some beans.
I should add that I bought my Gene Café in 2007. Someone in the video that Mike referenced said that they have redesigned the heater assembly to be more robust.
Thanks for watching and for your comment. I’ve only done 1 roast with the Genie Cafe so my opinion isn’t as informed yet. I think all of the smaller home coffee roasters have limitations. There isn’t one clear all around best roaster but here are a few thoughts about the 3 popular roasters in the 200-700 dollar range.
The Behmor is pretty diverse as far as roast profiles but you have to push the roaster to its limits. High pre-heats. Maximum power, avoiding overheating shutdowns etc…. It is a tough roaster that should give many years if treated well. I’ve roaster on mine since 2012.
The freshroast seems to be able to roast some light and medium coffee really well but darker roasts might be hard on the roaster. I love the visibility and bean movement but you need the extension tube to really make things happen. It is a powerful air roaster that roast some great coffee.
Thee Genie Cafe seems to like slower medium to dark roast levels. I plan to roast a darker roast and a lighter roast on the Gene. We will see if a light roast is possible. I like the bean movement, visibility, chaff collector the Genie offers. Even though the roaster is rated for 1 lb, like the Behmor, 1/2 pounds roasts are its limit in order to have a reasonable total roast time. I will know more with a few more roasts.
What type of beans and roast style to you like?
The other deciding factor is the price as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. What is your max budget?
Most important question is how much control do you want in your roaster. Do you want to push a button and let the roaster donuts work or do you want to work with different toast levels and profiles?
Hi, My question is very simple is there a difference I mean a real one between freshly roosted coffee to a well packed from a good origin already roosted coffee? Is this investment in this machine worth the time money and space of the machine?
Hi Lina. Unfortunately it isn't as simple as you think. I will try and be concise.
1. the cost and size of the machine will answer your question. A Hive hand held manual roaster can roast some fabulous coffee, cost less than 200 dollars and can be stored in a drawer.
2. The coffee you purchase already roasted is really subjective. Let's assume it is really good specialty coffee. You would pay about 15-25 dollars for 250 grams. The green beans would cost about 2 - 4 dollars for that coffee.
I could go on but the reality is I don't roast coffee at home to save money. I enjoy the process, creativity, challenge, and satisfaction of the result. Money is a secondary factor for me but for some it is their primary motive. Where are you buying your roasted coffee now?
Thanks for your questiok and for watching. I hope my response was helplful.
It's such a PITA to roast using it and usually results in burning your hand in one way or another while being very difficult to judge roast level as it's super sensitive to all environmental variables. Cooling is it's significant downfall though as you basically need some other method of cooling the beans. Sold mine off and never looked back. Not recommended at all. Much prefer roasters with profile control that you actually can walk away from and still get good results like KaffeLogic.
Yes, the Gene Cafe does not roast the profile for you , that is for sure. With some effort, it can roast a profile, but nothing like the LINK, KaffeLogic.
Are you plugged into a 20 amp outlet? After preheating to max temp, with 1/2 lb of HueHue inside bringing the Gene up to max temp seems to take about 12 mins on my 15 amp outlet. Can never seem to reach higher temperature fast enough in my house. Don't really have 20 Amp circuit available.
15 amp outlet. What is your batch size? That will make a huge difference
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I used 8 oz. Maybe was due to wind outside because last roast in similar (80 degree) outside temp produced better roast. However I found an easy mod for hearing 1C better on the Gene - put webbed grilling mat inside half of the glass. This lets you see the beans on half the turn and hear cracks more clearly in the other. I realized I was probably hearing 2C when I had my roast running over 13:00. After the mod I could hear cracks earlier and finished an 18% development roast in 11:00. Seems to be a really awesome solution for hearing cracks better on the Gene. Beans smell sweet so can't wait to try them in a few days.
Yes, wind is a huge factor when roasting. I've had to build a large box where my vent ends outside. Wind was blowing in the vent and impacting the temperatures in the machine.
Cool mod with the screen!
Great vid, Mike! Thanks so much for the shout out, you're too kind 🥹 Looks like you reached much the same conclusions we did: excellent roaster for folks looking for simplicity, not ideal for folks who want to tweak profiles and nerd out on the details. Looking forward to seeing what tips and tricks you discover!
Thanks David & Thanks again for loaning my your roaster! It is simple to use, that is for sure. I will know based on my next couple of roasts whether it can do the light and fruity. Thanks for donating some greens for these roasts. It has been a lot of fun and quite a learning experience.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab my pleasure, I'm grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with you!
Did you happen to check the percentage of moisture loss?
Hi Jeff. Yes, 14.3% moisture loss. Sorry I forgot to include that.
Still cannot figured out how to hear first crack on that machine, very confusing...
It isn’t easy. Some have reported success by using a paper towel tube to listen to FC at the exhaust tube
I would be interested in the taste difference if taken to 20% development,,,15 % seems low
I normally go 20 percent development with the gene on my roasts. Sometimes I will go with less if I am trying to preserve maximum Fruit or Floral characteristics.
Hi Ken. Yes, I plan to roast the same beans but with a longer development time. I also hope to roast a fruity coffee as well. 15% isn't really that low. I think it was more like 17% by the time cooling was at a point where the beans stopped roasting. Development percentage of 20 common for many roasters BUT depending on roast style and the type of bean, development is used as one way to craft the coffee to your personal preference. As @addertooth1 mentioned, some people use less time in development to bring out a little acidity. If you prefer darker smoother coffee then most likely you would want to go with a longer development time. Also, keep in mind, development percentages don't measure bean darkness. They only measure the amount of time after first crack in relation to the total roast time. If I was roasting with much higher temperatures, I could have the same development percentage but have a much darker tasting coffee. So, I try to take the ending roast temperature/bean color in mind along with the development percentage. I'm not sure if that is really possible with the Gene Cafe because we really don't know what the true bean temperature is.
Great conversation here. I appreciate your comments and for watching my video Ken. I hope my comments offered a little more rational why I went with a lower development percentage.
thanks so much for the reply,,,when are you coming to the beautiful Pacific Northwest ? We live in Spokane
I was at the SCA in Portland. Did you attend?
Good day, as you mentioned it is taking me about 20 minutes to get first crack. And the bean color is is not uniform
Hi Saeed, thanks for watching. Hmm, bean color not uniform? What type of coffee are you roasting and how much are you roasting per batch? Are you pre-warming your roaster? How dark are you roasting the coffee?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks for replying. Im using guji humbella Ethiopia. Iam preheating as you mentioned. I roast till first crack
Thanks for your reply. You are roasting with the Gene Cafe and ending your roast at first crack. Are you roasting 1/2 lb Saeed? On my roast in this video i went 1 minute and fourty seconds after first crack starts. I would recommend you roast longer than when first crack starts. Also, it seems like your roast was much slower.
What pre-heat temperature did you use?
How much coffee are you roasting per batch?
My total roast time was 10 minutes and thirty seconds. I reached first crak at 8 minutes and fifty seconds. Because your roast is so much slower it could be one or more of these reasons:
1. You are roasting more (weight) coffee per batch than I did
2. You are not pre-heating to the same temperature i did
3. Your roaster power coming from the wall may be less voltage and ultimately producing less heat.
I really don't know why there is such a big temperature difference but I would looke at these reasons I provided and compare.
Also, because you did not go as far into development as I did, this would cause the taste to be under developed and the color to be more uneven.
What roasting profile you acheive is it med to dark ?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab good day. My batch is 200 grms that is slightly less than half a pound. Yes, i end my roast exactly at the first crack. I do preheat thd drum till 250.
Helo
Hello, thank you for watching my video!
Why not use human measurements, like Celsius?
I'll blame it on the country I live in ;-). I wish i was more fluent in Centigrade (Celsius). I have displayed both Celsius and Fahrenheit in some of my videos. I need to do a better job with that. Thanks for watching and for your comments.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I was just teasing a little.
Did you know that it is over hundred of years, since US adapted the metric system?
US joined, as some of the first to implement the metric system.
The metric defines your Imperial system.
Weird.
The easiest way to learn the metric system, is to become a drug dealer. Here you will learn it the hard way. 🙂
thats funny but sprinkled with some truth. I do remember learning the basics of the metric system back in the 70's (yea, i'm old) but as far as day to day, our nation has not converted. Our signs are still imperial. Our measurements for products we manufacturer are marketed in imperial dimensions. Even imported products will have imperial sizes. I wish they would have simply replaced the old system but they have not. I will try to do a better job including metric references in my videos.
Thanks again.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab It really was a kind of teasing question.
I am 62.
Everybody talks about how expensive it would be to convert to metric. I am sure it would be that bad.
I guess many of your road signs would have space for two numbers. It would take some cars, with a printer. Then drive around put a sticker on the signs, then you can have both, in an intermediate period.
Celsius is not that hard. Water is ice at 0 and boiling at 100. 22 is room temp and 50 is the temperature where you only can have your hand in water, for a few seconds. 37 C is body temperature and 40C, call an ambulance.
94-98 is the water temp for filter coffee 🙂
Stand up and put your finger at your hip bone, it is 1 meter above the ground +-.
To visualize 1 kilometer, find two spots you drive by often, 1 km apart. You will quickly learn 1 kilometer.
Milli is 1/1000, so 1 millimeter is 1/1000 of a meter.
1 decimeter (rarely used) is 10 centimeters
Remember your dollar and you will know what 1 CENTimeter is.
The best one: 1 liter of water at 20 C is 1 kilogram, usually just called a kilo.
As kilo means 1000 it is 1000 grams.
1000 kilos is a ton.
Now you are an expert 🙂