Why Do Joysticks Drift?
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2022
- Sony isn't the only company to use off-the-shelf joystick modules, but, like Microsoft, they've made it difficult to repair this consumable component. Joysticks have a known life expectancy-it's listed right in a product sheet from the manufacturer. In this video, we head back inside a DualSense controller to see what is failing, and how.
- Věda a technologie
Watch the full-length video here: czcams.com/video/7qPNyio3VDk/video.html
why charge once for a controller, when you can charge every couple of months per costumer, for a new controller
In business-speak that's called a profit center
Nintendo 💀
Couple months? Y’all buy more than one new controller per year?
@@SupremeShuckle who doesn't? these controllers don't even last 3 months.
@@nisael9632 mine lasted for 5 years, didn't even take care of it. Guess im just lucky and it was a ps4 controller
Product engineer here: this is because they don't use hard gold. Hard gold is a coating technique that allows rubbing contact surfaces to last hundreds of thousands or millions of cycles and maybe costs them an extra $0.10 per controller but they actively choose not to, I would only assume that by controller failing in a predictable manner after a known amount of hours or years means that it will be replaced and thus is more profitable for them in the long run.
This also can be solved by software calibration similar to n64 joysticks and ps1 joysticks, where the zero position and max travel distance is captured when you turn on the console each time.
They could also use hall effect sticks, it's probably cheaper than hard gold coating
@@fABIO-cs3unit’s not.
That might explain why many 24+ year old controllers in my possession still work like new despite their old & heavily used potentiometers. A meagre $0.10 can go a long way.
@@SomeAngryGuy1997It's not a coating on those old controllers making them last, it's the calibration each time it's turned on that does it.
You can't just coat a potentiometer with a continuous low resistance metal coating like that, it will just short out the body of the resistance compound or wire coil in the potentiometer.
A rotary encoder, preferably an optical one, seems a far better solution.
Cause of drift: cheap analogs
Fix to drift: use magnetic analogs
Or optical analogs
Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft: But we've been making lots of money from people buying new Controllers every 6 months.
That's call hall effect joystick
But they won't
They just want money
@@davidperry4013. Ive never heard of optical analongs, ill have to look into them.
@@Kenny-hy5pj Patents and accompanied licensing fees, if they need to spend money they'll ask for more. Also Hall Effect sensors fail too.
The way a hall effect sensor fails is worse than a potentiometer, it's immediate instead of failing gradually like a potentiometer does. Then you have other issues like extreme temperatures can cause a hall effect sensor to drift or variance in the magnetic field.
It's not as simple as "They just want money".
The worst part, even back with Gamecube controllers, one of the sticks was just a stick by itself on a board, that could be replaced with just a connector. It's not a repairability thing. It's actually just regression of technology for profit.
Not sure if we're on the same page but I know that the GameCube controller's C-Stick is replaceable via a connector but the Left Stick is still soldered to the board.
The T1/T2 stickbox are similar to the traditional controller stickbox, but the T3 stickbox is entirely removable by unscrewing it, except its potentiometers are still soldered.
@ndNixLon Good point, yeah, I can't remember now but the left one might be hard soldered. I know for certain that the C Stick is on a connector cable though.
Consumable parts should always be modular and easy to replace, especially batteries.
they are.
the Batteries in first party controlers as well as most 8bitdo controllers are standard parts and easily replaced. Well, minus the Nintendo WiiU Gamepad...
Rechargable batteries don't need to be hot-swapable, but they do need to be replaceable.
Ah yes I love consuming batteries
Its been a problem for ao long and they didn't care to fix it, as it brings higher sales for them.
Sega Dreamcast's controller used Hall-effect sensors, completely eliminating drift issue.
there is only 1 company making hall-effect sensors, Gulikit. They make controllers and kit for Steam Deck.
@@durururururururu thanks for the info 👍
@@durururururururu Sony also did it in one of the versions of there controllers
@@durururururururu bro i actually managed to mod a normal gamepad for hall sensors but the difficulty is 4.5/5, scavenging the right electronics is a big headache.
I had no drift issues with PS3, 360, Wii, GCN, PS2, Xbox OG controllers. Those were built like tanks.
That's because they consider the whole controller to be "consumable". They can go consume deez nuts.
lol good one.
Right To Repair!
We gotta get rid of toss and replace tactics.
You can repair it. Alcohol and a Qtip
@@Queef_latinadid you even watch the video? 🤡
I fixed it easily. I didn't take it this far apart. But I opened my controller, cleaned these two sets of components, (green cap thing) and viola. My 3 yr old original white and 1.5 yr old black are back at 100%
Lucky you. You only had drift because it was dirty. It usually doesn't help, but there some times when that's all. Nice
Just cleaned mine... Full Tokyo drift... Smh
10000% agree with the final statement. As long as you take good care of a controller, it's always and only drift that forces you to get a new one.
At least with modern controllers. Really old controllers seem hardcore; I have original ps1 dual shock and gamecube controllers that still work like a charm.
Ive had my PS2 for 14 years and no issues. I love that little machine
Seems like once stick drift starts happening it’s time to get another controller and hope that one last longer.
The only scenario where i see companies making an easily fixable controller is if it was some premium 200-300$ controller. That way they've already charged you the price of 3-4 standard controllers which is what most people buy during the lifespan of their console and in return you get total freedom from tech support
Instead Microsoft will charge about that for an elite controller, and I've seen them start to drift within 2 weeks!
The fact that Microsoft aren't using hall effect sticks in their "premium" controller is inexcusable, especially when Gulikit offer something similar with hall effect sticks and more functionality for less than half the price
It was pretty calming and relaxing taking it apart and putting it back together.
Like a zen moment
the n64 approach was better since that part was optic like those old "ball mouses", the problem was the rest of the mechanism
I got a Sony Dualshock 4, and within 3 months it already drift. I claimed warranty and before I even explain the cause of damage, the staff already predict and assume it was a joystick drift, and they are correct. that means drifting warranty claim is so common, but the question is why did Sony keep producing the same flawed dualshock 4 instead of fixing it or providing replacement parts for joystick
Because gamers don't vote with their wallets.
That's why the ps3 controller with halleffect sticks are my favorite
That’s why I love PS3 controller!
Wait what? I opened mine up and it looks like regular Potentiometer ones. No wonder PS3 controllers felt so accurate.
@@stoopidhaters only the dualshock 3 controllers have hall effect sticks
Consumers: *Something something right to repair*
Companies: *Something something just give us your money*
Don't let them know your next move:
Just buy a hall effect stick controller
You need more than just a hall effect stick
@@sunnyd5944what else?
This is one of the coldest Mortal Kombat edits I’ve seen this one hits different
WRONG.
You forgot to mention why this happens now and never happened before, a lot of detail is missing.
Joysticks have been around since the first consoles and you'll find a 15y old ps2 DualShock controller that works better than a 6months drift suffering PS5 controller. The potentiometers in the PS2 were far more worn out and still work perfectly to this day.
The current ps5 and Xbox pads are powered by Li-Po batteries which operate at a lower voltage which means the alps will produce erroneous readings in the Dualshock microcontroller. With older consoles that worked on AA batteries or 5v logic, this problem was not present.
REPLACING THE JOYSTICK WITH ANOTHER NEW ONE OF THE SAME TYPE IS NOT A FIX.
it only fixes it for a few more months, THE REAL FIX IS DIFFERENT.
Kailh vs OMRON vs ALPS.
The Alps doesn't consider the current-gen specifications that work on higher freq and lower amps.
What is the actual fix?
The Alps Potentiometer is defective and bad design for this specification, what you need is a Kailh Potentiometer which is designed to work in much sensitive voltages, all sticks are designed to wear out but the microcontroller should still not produce drift.
What happened to Logitech?
Double Click and Joystick drift are electrical faults and not completely mechanical faults.
Logitech used Omron switches which should work at 5v 0.1Amp and a traditional debounce being canceled out but the microcontroller works at 3.2 - 2.8 v, 4mA depending on the charge state of the battery. making the switch more sensitive, getting a Kailh 8.0 fixed it because it was meant to work at 2.8v and 1mA.
You can collaborate with me I can tell you why this actually happens and why manufacturers are very well aware of the Logitech double click mouse problem & the Joystick drift problem. This is much deeper than you covered and goes hand in hand with Right to repair/third-party quality being better. There is literally no one talking about this and this needs to be present out there, people will do the incorrect fixes
Make a video showing off the different parts, post it on Reddit
Who are you and how can you help us?
@@MrNoipe I need ifixit to respond
I concluded that PS2, PS3 and other old controllers never developed drift even when the stick module is completely worn out.
I found your info so much interesting, did you make any videos about it? Electric fault sounds so much plausible.
I had the same suspicion, I even gave up repairing the controller
I know this is old but I really like how the pro controller for ps5 has removable joysticks
I’m buying a ps5 tired of Xbox
Joystick drift because we are fine with it and the last time someone made a reliable controller that won't drift -> earlier PS3 ones - all we did was bash and flame the controller and nobody talked about the Good Parts - like the reliability, that it won't drift (Only A1 and A2 can) and is very robust and easily repaired.
Yeah. Those were the days. My ps3 controller didn’t drift because of the worn out contact points but rather the spring has lost its tension.
Dreamcast and Saturn used Hall Effect sticks. Funny how we just see them coming back around, now that more DIY people are posting videos.
There should be software adjustments too. Regular checks to recalibrate for voltage changes until the potentiometer is too damaged to function properly.
I find that opening the pots and cleaning them often solves drift. Just be careful to not snap the pins off
It helps but the reality is they get worn out. Hall effects do not. This is why they are using in things like Aerospace Flight Stick Controllers and potentiometers are not.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 Then you have to worry about spring elasticity.
@@ZpacedYou always have to worry about that. Even with potentiometer sticks
I'm absolutely astonished that they didn't switch to optical rotary encoders some time in the 90s.
I got a first gen Nacon GC100XF that has this exact issue, it just bounces instead of drifting, but even if desoldering it is not an issue for me, I cannot find the part number to get the correct shape and resistance.
I'm gonna get myself a Turtle Beach Recon and when I have time and patience I'll figure out what to do with the Nacon, I really like it still...
It's pretty easy to replace.
Even without soldering.
40x potentiometers cost 13$ on amazon.
Fixing is always a solution - although not always the best one.
However, thanks to your tutorials and tools I was able to get two drifting Xbox One controllers for less than 10 bucks and fixing them to an almost brand-new-state. 💙
I've always had the springs wear out causing the drift because the stick gets stuck in one position...
While the wear to the pads causes it to simply not register input anymore.
Simple... dont use the analogstick
And you could buy ( if supported ) a diy back button Kit
That's not drift. That's simply stuck. Drift is when the stick is centered, but it is detected as out of center.
Third option (the best option) is to use silicon grease, spray it in to those potentiometers, you don't need to open them up. Silicone grease is not conductive so don't worry.
We got my son a Quest for Christmas in 2020. By Christmas 2023, the sticks were drifting so badly, it was unplayable. We bought replacement controllers.
Meanwhile, I've been using the same Logitech GamePad since 2001, with well over 10,000hrs on it and no sign of drift or flaw yet.
We're going backwards.
It would be so useful to be able to fix and repair your own controller.
If only we could direct the masses that care about waste to direct their attention to this issue. So many controllers end up in the trash for this reason.
I've got two that do this. Even after taking them apart and cleaning them the sticks never snap back center.
Like you said, make them easy to replace!!!
Am I crazy or has joystick drift become a bigger issue each generation? Back in the 360, GameCube/wii, ps3 days drift was hardly an issue. The only time my controllers would break is when I broke them myself. Yes I threw my controllers. I have grown since then. Regardless I’ve gotten drift on my ps5 controller a week into owning it, and drift on several joycons. Planned obsolescence is wild man.
Yeah, I have a few controllers on which I need to replace the thumbsticks, not because they drift, but because the stick mechanisms themselves have become too loose and don't properly return to center like they used to, but the potentiometers are still spot-on. It's wild indeed.
Joycon drift is kinda different, though. It has the same result, but different cause.
Thrustmaster Eswap controllers do have replaceable sticks & work with ps5, Xbox & pc but are wired & do not use low voltage systems so drifts is less likely anyway.
It's not entirely compatible with PS5. It can only be used on PS5 with PS4 games only. Unfortunately can't play actual PS5 games with it.
Cleaning the pot and alignment of those tiny internal contacts in the mobile part can fix it. I've done it with great results.
Seems like newer controllers are way more susceptible to drift. I’ve got 360 and PS3 controllers that are over a decade old with no drift.
If only we had someone really good at explainin, investigate the difference between the old and the knew to find out why old controllers rarely drift
A more important fact to note is that a solution already exists, hall effect joysticks.
Crazy how stick drift wasn’t a big issue back then. Materials are getting cheaper and lower in quality, but prices are getting higher. I hate this world 😂😭
Would a “painting it” conductive paint fix this?
“It’s strange to us…that they don’t make joysticks to be replaced”
They are easily replaced, I assume you mean repaired?
Very easy to take apart and clean, did it to both my ps5 controllers and it stopped the drift. I couldn’t even use the controllers on the ps5 menu without them both just stuck going left on their own
So u told us it needs fixing but not how to fix it 😮 u are a genius sir
I just replaced both joysticks on my switch lite. It was suprisingly easy to swap the new ones in. I wish it was that easy on Xbox and Dualshock controllers.
enter the N64 controller. One of the easiest fixes ive ever had to make
Magnetic Stick: Hold my water
I noticed that mine was burnt blue which is weird , because on a dirt bike when the cams is blue it means it's warped or worn means you need to replace them , so I'll take mine out again and just try and use fine grit and see if sanding those fine plates would help it , I just used a screw driver and basically you know .. bended them over without removing those parts and bend and pushed them back into place
The left and right bumper triggers on my controller has potentiometers for trigger censors, and both of them have their triggers stuck on pressed before and after I tried to replace them. For the life of me I cant figure out why
They should make them cheaper at least
They wont do that because of greed
Planned obsculence: they don't want you to repair it. They want you to buy a new one.
I tried to fix mine yesterday from a video saying the same thing. It definitely worked a lot as opposed to resets and cleaning, but it’s still a little drifts here and there. I need a microscope lol.
They really need to do that for their next console. The joystick should be easily replaceable and cheap so everybody can buy one easy. In fact the controllers for the next console should have a pack with four Joysticks.
Sega used Hall-effect switches for the Dreamcast (maybe the Saturn as well). There's no reason for MSFT, Nintendo and Sony not to offer the same. They just want you to keep purchasing more.
Walmart told me drift isn’t covered under warranties and even sony rep said the same. Called it “wear and tear”
They had a fix for this from the very beginning. The ps1 and 2 calibrated each time and it was never much of a problem. I don’t really understand why because they couldn’t possibly be making much with controller sales.
Lmao I read this at first as joycon drift, and was confused about the relavance until I read closer.
Note I mean the use of universal joysticks rather that the compact flatpack joycon joysticks for demonstrations.
Just do what the PS2 does. If you move the stick fully back and forth, the PS2 will automatically center the axes, meaning no matter how much drift your controller has you can still play fine
back and forth means up and down?
Working as intended.
You could just have hair or dirt in there. I took my sensors out but left the housing connected to the board still, then cleaned it and the inside. Works like brand new.
I am still clueless as to why in the modern day they make such advanced gamepads and yet never implement HAL-effect sensors (magnetic field sensors) as position sensors instead of old fashioned analog and prone to wear potentiometers.
They finally did create removable sticks, only, it costs $200+ to buy the controller that comes with it. No thanks.
Replacement sticks are £20 EACH in the UK. A while back I bought a ps5 controller for £40 brand new at Argos.
“you can fix it but i wont show you how”
They should just use Hall sensors and then it will no longer being a wearing component and wayyy more accurate and smooth.
I think attari did it back in the late 80s/early 90s but I'm to lazy to google it.
If you're curious about it I'm sure google can explain better than I can.
I opened mine, sprayed silicone lubricant into the potentiometers, problem 100% fixed.
If they done sticks like SEGA and add the LR3 buttons on there, not only would it's hall effect sticks work, but also cheaper to work
What is LR3?
The wiper inside the potentiometer moves in a circular track. As such, the damage to the potentiometer looks like wiper dug a circular track on the carbon film coating, not like the one shown in this video. It looks like someone just arbitrarily scratched the carbon film to make a point in this video.
That’s what I kinda like about the joycon sticks, yea they aren’t perfect but they are pretty modular
What's even more baffling is why not just use halleffect joysticks
"Why do joysticks drift?"
Because modern corporatism has produced a concept called engineered obsolescence. What investment group wants to see controllers last longer than 6 months? It's gotten so good that both of my sticks will drift roughly around the same time frame. Prompting me to buy a new one.
if any of you have old controllers with working sticks you can use the sensors from the old one to the new one and replace them, this is a good fix but it requires some patience
There's another situation that causes drift something stuck inside the controller either something really small or really sticky like soda or something else like my brother's son he had sticky hand and really messed up my joy stick some hot inside fixed now after I purchase a repair kit though I can't replace the moving parts because I don't have a welding device
Fortunately, I've been able to fix joystick 🕹️ drifting, in the past, simply by taking them apart and completely cleaning the inside, with focus given to the analog area setup.
*cries in joy con drift*
psp had a little bit that connected to the board via contact and just had to take off the faceplate to replace it if it got drift
Why do controllers stick drift. The real answer ~ Their created to.
They are designed to be replaced, you just have to replace the entire unit.
iFixit-branded controllers with hall-effect sticks?
They need to come up with something free flowing but tracking is fluid and solid. I've gone through so many. Theres literally a controller lottery. I've went through 30 gen 1 elites in 2 years and I don't throw them. I play at a high level in fps games. Top 10 pred apex console since day one
I bought a pack of 20 potentiometers for PS5. Good to replace up to 5 controllers for just $13.99
I wonder if hall effect joysticks will ever be viable for mass use.
it's pretty common for drone radios. The only downside I see- the bigger size than resistive gimbals
Like the Playstation 3 Controller?
Or the Dreamcast Controller?
Or the Saturn Controller?
Yeah, they were. but people didn't care and didn't talk about that.
@@serhiirudenko6183 not true. Look at Ben Heck's Channel, Driftbusters. At around 11min he shows Hall Effect based Joysticks, that are THE SAME SIZE, just 4 pin instead of 3.
I have had to buy two new controllers because of this, and now today it happened for the third time, so I hope this helps
How long do your pads usually last before wearing out?
@@LowlyEidolon around 4 months
@@avocados4life191 gosh that is soon, how many hours roughly a week do you play?
And how often do you force the analog sticks to the edges of the housing or press the stick in to click the button using excess force
From my limited research these actions seem to be the cause of the pots prematurely wearing out
@@LowlyEidolon well it hasn’t happened much recently, but I mainly played fortnite and to sprint you need to trouble tap the joy sticks and hood them down with force, I probably used to play like 1-2hours a day
@@avocados4life191 thanks for the feedback, I play a decent amount of games, not so much recently but I tend to remap the left stick click away to LB or RB, and I don't force the sticks fast or hard to the extremes so I've been trying to get feedback from people who experience drift (my Xbox one. Day one controller still doesn't drift) to see if it's user behaviour (along with a less then ideal hardware design flaw) creating drift sooner for some users then for others
Game consoles (& controller) makers want you to buy a new one when they say there is no problem (and send back to you the joystick that you sent for warranty) thus making you get a new one because they are too big and powerful and you have no human to slap but a chatbot interface.
I hope ifixit teaches people how to do so
Can you make a pixel buds pro teardown video?
And no third party company sell good quality controllers.
They wouldn’t dare harm profits from 1st and 3rd party controllers.
It’s always the left stick. And it’s always drifting left.
That's weird, I replaced the pots on mine and it didn't fix it, though it stopped recieving up and down signal and the board was getting mixed signals. Also I checked the inside of the pots and the black stuff was still intact like 99% of the way, it's not scratched at all that I can see in the lighting. I changed the plastic/wiper thing which fixed one of the controllers but not the other (cuz of bad soldering most likely), but the range of movement on the right stick is a bit off, with the left and right axis not hitting full length for some reason.
It's fine as a temporary repair for a really old DS4 controller though, as I have a wired and dualsense for my ps5. The left stick worked perfectly. I think I needed to snap the plastic wiper into the pot first before trying to close it.
It is likely you used the wrong pots and didn't have the correct resistance range
If you have basic soldering skills, you can replace them yourself. I did it literally yesterday
It wouldn’t be hard either to design controller joysticks that are swappable like keyboard switches. This would also allow you to choose crazy aftermarket parts that alter the way the joysticks work to your liking.
The Astro C40TR has replaceable joysticks.
@@joshjlmgproductions3313 so does the ps5 edge controller from sony.. but they still use their dodgy af 0.01mm thick carbon tracks in thier potentiometers so they wear out on 400 hours.. preplanned obsolescence... i hate sony and of i ever get an option to buy another brand for replacements with full functionality on ps5 ill ditch sony so fast aye
Because they don't want you to cheaply repair your stuff they want you to spend 60 dollars for a new one. It's more than likely designed to fail.
I hope someone designs controllers with sticks that work like mechanical keyboard hotswap switches. Multiple metal rods that plug into some holes, and those holes are for data for movement and anything else just like a regular switch. That way we don't have to change the design of controllers but we can change the feel of the controller sticks easily, or replace them.
And now sony did
But expensive
@@Kenny-hy5pj ....right. the pro ps5 controller. Honestly any controller over $50 is overpriced. even $50 for a controller is overpriced. at that point just use a mouse, keyboard, and adapter.
many people don't realise that u can repair a joystick easily at home no professional tools needed, just a soldering iron and 2$ screwdriver kit.
oh and the 3 "No Drift" Joypads: SEGA Saturn ANalog, SEGA Dreamcast and earlier PS3 Controller.
I didn't know about drift when I had my vita. I was so mad when my character just moving itself, so I spanked the stick badly 😭
Vita analogs are quite close to Joycons. You killed them
hey bro, i have a question. my left joycon stick won't work when i crouch down (press L + down) should i replace the analog stick? i've checked both joycons calibration motion controls they're both okay and have no problem the only issue is that i wasn't able to crouch or sprint in the game i currently playing.
Its been more than 2 decades sinde the use of this specific module on modern controllers. Can someone actually update it?
I have a Thrustmaster E-Swap controller so I don’t have to go through so many controllers and I can just replace the joystick. But they’re out of stock :(
We all know why they do it. They could easily fix stick drift but they know how much money ppl spend buying new controllers so that wont change til ppl stop buying them, which isn’t likely.
I am one that’s not buying another controller till they have a permanent fix for stick drift. Already bought one of the newer DualSense and it lasted less than the original one. Tried all the “fixes” I’ve seen all over the internet and they’re only temporary. At least they were for a while. Now no fix works and I actually saw the wear in one of the circles inside the potentiometer on both controllers. Why would anyone keep buying a defective product?