Exploring Europe's "Ugliest" City
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- During my various travels through Bosnia and Herzegovina, locals and travelers alike have told me one thing about the city of Zenica: "AVOID it." As is usually the case when people say that, the city turned out to be much nicer than expected, and actually had some charm to it (except for the scary dogs).
0:00 The Brand New Bosnian Highway!
3:47 First Impressions of Zenica
10:05 Steel City
20:21 The Really Nice Part of Zenica
23:50 Walking with a Based Elder
40:02 Don't Hate on Zenica
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#bosnia #balkan #pittsburgh
Join me on this Balkan adventure to the Bosnian city of Zenica! Zenica, Bosnia and Herzegovina is famous for its giant steel production plant, or ironworks, I don't know the correct term. But anyways, this giant metal factory has been the lifeline of the city for several decades and even after the Bosnian War still continues to be the largest employer in the area, with over 2,000 employees (plus many more employees adjacent to the metal-works).
Travel Bosnia, Balkan travel video, Balkan Exploration, Yugoslavia, Communist Yugoslavia, Socialist Yugoslavia, Heavy industry, communist industry, USSR, Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bosnia, Bosnian, Zenica, Bosnian steel factory, Bosnian iron works, Bosnian Pyramid, Communist Architecture, Communist Housing Blocks, Socialist Architecture, Socialist Housing Blocks, Bosnian Demographics, Demographics, Bosnian Diaspora, Croats of Bosnia, Croats in the Balkans, Croats of Zenica, Crkvice, Dogs, Dog encounters, stray dogs
37:30 He says nobody was bothering him during the war, maybe it was different for someone else, but it was good for him. Translation is a bit misleading.
Thank you! Sometimes I really couldn’t understand him, even after listening to it 10 times, so I did my best. Thanks for the help
@@BenTheRules in 19:20 there's another mistranslation, he says "Oni će Rusiju 'krenut", meaning they'll turn Russia upside down, and another one in 19:50 where he says something more along the lines of "America should roughen him up a little".
The bit where the car was loud I think he says "Ako Putin dozvoli, zavisi o njemu" meaning "If Putin allows it, it depends on him" in regards to if there will be further sanctions. Admittedly that's a strange answer so not completely sure about it but completely sure about the first two.
Before the war, the Zenica ironworks had about 25,000 directly employed people and another 50,000 indirectly employed people, which made it the largest ironworks in Europe!
Zenica is also known as Real Madrid
Every city is ugly when weather is like this hahahahahah
Zenica looks like this in the middle of summer's most sunny and clear weather
Kad si ti bosnjak bio u zenici?
Lol I agree 😂
@@Jose-ue3bu it really isnt stop spreading missinformation
@@Jose-ue3buactually zenica is very green with a lot of parks in summer completely different
Thanks for being in Zenica. Please come back again in spring or summer when weather is nicer and you'll see all the beauty that Zenica has to offer
Didn't expect someone to visit and film Zenica but here you are! I am glad you like it. The main bad point of this place is the pollution from the steel factory, but overall it's a nice place especially when you see Babina rijeka, Bosna, the parks, čaršija etc. About Crkvice, it is really not that dangerous, and also it is not a Croat majority neighborhood, there was a significant Croat population a long time ago but that's not the case for quite a long time now. In any way that doesn't even matter, we are all people and love each other. :)
I agree, take out the pollution and you have a cool, hard-working city with nice people and a lot of green space. I'm happy I went
Zenica moj grad. It's really pretty in the spring and summer.
I imagine all the green space is great this time of year. Pozdrav
Lupeta, ja sam proputovao pola Evrope i mogu ti reci da je Zenica Baden-Baden u odnosu na neke gradove. Pogledaj samo snimke Napulja, smrdi kroz monitor.
What a legend Jozo is. Great video as always. Keep uploading and build this channel!
You've gone from like 1k to 8.4k subs in the time I've been watching, keep it up man, I'm loving your style. Love that you subtitle everything too.
I appreciate it, thanks for continuing to support 🙏🙏 the subtitles have taken years off my life, but it’s important to do
50 shades of gray
🫢
I like that old man. He's a real man..
Actually close to Bilino Polje one of the earliest and most important early acts of Bosnian sovereignty happened in 1203 when the Ban of Bosnia, Kulin, with the cleargy of the schismatic Bosnian church renounced their faith in presence of Ban Kulin and Giovanni da Casamari from the Vatican. But continued with anti-Catholicism internally for centuries until the Turkish occupaction. Also Charter of ban Kulin was written near Zenica.
Next time you should visit Vranduk (old Medieval Fortress near Zenica) and Smetovi - small mountain in Zenica where you can find an interesting yugoslavian monument
I have never heard anyone say anything bad about the people of Zenica, you probably understood that part wrong. I think people told you not to go there because we are not proud that our country and its corrupt government failed this place and its people.
These people live in this polluted city doing some of the most difficult jobs to be able to lift our country's economy and stay in their homeland, but they are not receiving anything in return from that country.
I am not from Zenica, but I left Bosnia and now I live in an austrian city known for its steal production, air quality is so much better here (better than in Sarajevo), workers are respected and well paid, goverment is suporting the factory because they are lifting the standard up, bringing profit and progres to the country. But they also keep the factory´s management responsible for the air and water quality, for the workers´ rights and wellbeing and they are also obligated to invest and maintain infrastructure.
In Zenica one can see how nothing is invested in the city, nothing done to protect these people, no one is held responsible for that mistreatment... When I talk with other people that have left the country that betrayal is the biggest reason why most of us left and that is why we don´t want tourists to see the work of our government but prefer them to see the things that make us go back there like the nature, the food, tradition, culture, music etc.
Nice video and also Zenica is also nice place to visit. Been there myself alot and Zenica is place where a wedding dress for my lady was bought bought and my suit as well ❤. Keep up the good work with these videos.
Specialties of Zenica: 1. Steel 2. Wedding Apparel
@@BenTheRulesyea.. :-)
Zenica is fine, one has to acknowledge that it is an industrial town. The people of Zenica are nice and friendly. The town is historically important for the Bosnian identity. I would insist on putting proper filters on the factory chimneys. The city must destroy a few old brutalist buildings and put a new neoclassical architecture buildings. The city has a university, parks and the old town. Zenica has a potential to be good!
Went there everytime we went to Bosnia, got great memories of that place
PS. It was annoying af before those highways got built
respect for learning Bosnian, its one of the hardest leanguages in Europe.
🫡👍👍
Hvala! Nije lako ali je jako
Bosnjacki jezik ne postoji , star je 30 godina, pricate SRPSKI i ni to vam necemo dati, samo polako poturice.
@@whitesneyk3356 hahahha average mad serbian
@@whitesneyk3356 Your petty insults against Bosniaks just reveal how sad you are. Get educated. And stop embarrassing yourself and your people.
The gentleman at the end of the video is a wise man.
I agree, one of the best people I’ve ever met while traveling
You should come to Zenica in the spring and summer season when the whole city is green and the air is much cleaner. I live in Zenica, I also lived in NYC where the situation is drastically worse when it comes to pollution. Bosnia and Herzegovina and its cities have a lot to show the world.
For sure, each city has its own unique charm
NYC has disgusting trains full of bums and criminals, traffic, and many criminals and police that doesn't do its job because the courts release criminals the next day (intentional design by government to create chaos) so why bother arresting anyone
Zenica is really beautiful, what are you saying? Opposite of ugly
I didn’t say it, that’s what everyone told me! It was a nice surprise to see the center + all the green spaces
I'm from bosnia and zenica is not really beautiful. Like he said in the video: the most polluted city in bosnia, with the worst air quality. I wouldn't want to live there.
@@ariellll-vb5nm I'm from Zenica i ne seri
@@ariellll-vb5nm we are glad you dont live here
super pričaš brate, pozdrav iz Hrvatske iz Siska, preporuka da posjetiš grad isto industrijski grad
thank you, pozdrav! mozda krenet cu ovamo jednog dana
Epic !
shouldn't you be at work!?!?! XD
Why is it UNBELIEVABLE to have a highway in Bosnia or that matter in the Balkans? Bosnia was after all the center of heavy industry in former Yugoslavia. VERY INTERESTING video though 👌
Based old Zenicanin. 👍
I don't think it's unbelievable, I think it's a great sign of progress. Yugoslavia and Bosnia with it had some amazing industrial projects (look no further than the željezara in Zenica). Unfortunately war, corruption and political gridlock have held Bosnia back from realizing its potential and achieving the successes that it had back in the 20th century. But this highway is a sign of progress. It takes an hour to go from Sarajevo to Zenica now, whereas the train on the way back was twice as long.
Zenica is my hometown. Please come back during the springtime.
I'd love to, I really liked it
Pitsburgh of Bosnia :D
Hahaha yeah, I think it’s a decent analogy. I’ve only been to each city once, but on the surface it works out. Industrial city, steel production, football team named after steel, multiple rivers, surrounded by hills, etc etc
Zenica is Pittsburgh and Bosnia is the Appalachia of Europe.
Nailed it
And funnily enough, lots of Croatians moved to Pittsburg in the beginning of the last century :)
Really good Bosnian, keep up 👍
Hvala!
born in Melbourne Australia, i really enjoyed Zenica, ive stayed for several months. As mentioned the place is slower pace but I enjoyed it. Lovely water walks etc. Great food, must try Ćevabdžinica Bešlić, I have an apartment right across there (currently not in Bosnia)
I ended up going to a cevabdzinica next to the big pijaca, i don't remember the name. But it was decent
@@BenTheRulesmust have been Kod Seje?
Hvala za za lijepu reportazu Zenice
rodni grad moje djece
pozdrav!
They have shut down one of the parts of the factory few days ago, we got one of the cleanest air of the Balkan region now (when you compere it to big cities of course.)
Interesting, why'd they shut it down?
@@BenTheRules Same reason you mentioned at the begining (The air quality)... altough the owner of the Steel Company said it was because of the fact that it isnt profitable anymore, the "Coke furnace" that was finally shut down was the main reason for bad Air quality and we are fighting for years against that. Just google the byproducts of the "coking" (coal tar pitch, ammonia (NH3), hydrogen sulphide (H2S), pyridine, hydrogen cyanide and carbon based material) are all that you smelled near the Coke furnace inside the Steel factory.
@@hasulfer84 yeah i can imagine it's not good for people to breathe that in every day... hopefully things will improve! i hope not too many people will lose their jobs, either
Jozo the legend!
Nedo ti bog da sam te sreo na cesti poslije ovog videa pozdrav I izbjegavaj zenicu u narednom periodu...pozdrav
Zenica is beautiful town. But in a winter everything looks ugly even in Berlin. 😅
Let's go Zenica Mentioned!!!
must be nice to see your hometown on the big screen
He said "deseti dio" in context of Željezara, as it is at 1/10th of the capacity that it used to be. He doesn't know for sure since it sold to an outside owner now. Also he said later on he had a brain stroke and that it has made it harder to write.
As a side note everyone will give you a different interpretation on how it was in the Ex Yugoslavia. I have a feeling its due to different type of population and goals that they had as well as receiving different treatment from local government which was inconsistent in that big of a region with different rules applying to village vs city population.
Good work, and again interesting video to watch.
Thanks for the corrections on the translations. I had to watch the conversation back so many times with my Bosnian friend to try to understand him but it was really difficult at times ahaha
Hvala puno na video snimcima👍Dobro pricas Bosanski.
Zanima me sto si ovako cesto u Bosnu i koliko jos ostajes?
👋
Hvala! Imam remote posao pa mogu da radim bilo gdje. Bio sam prošle 6 mjeseci u evropu, izmedu svicarska i balkanu. Živio sam 2 mjeseci u Sarajevo (to mi je najlijepše grad!), zato napravio sam toliko snimaka u Bosnu. Pozdrav :)
@@BenTheRules
Super!
Koliko ostajes u Bosnu?
Mi smo u njemackoj trenutno a vracamo se za 2 sedmice.
Pa da probas domaci Burek ako si musterija haha
Cool man, I would say you should visit Travnik, Travnicki cevap might be better than Sarajevski, also make sure to try Travnicki sir, of other places to visit there is also Jajce, Banja Luka, also any place on the Una river, the most beautiful river in the country
So embarrassing that a highway is some kind of special achievement. It is heartbreaking how far behind the rest of Europe the Balkans is. Other Southern European countries like Italy have had highways for decades. Dozens, loads of them. They are just normal.
well no wars and good economy help which Balksn mostly doesn't have and Bosnia especially lacks population...no population no need for massive highways (Bosnia needs to have at least 10 million people for major improvements
when was this recorder,what time of year?
Middle of March. I’m hoping to come back in the summer too :)
My City! 🖤❤️
It's a mid-sized city in a poor country where corruption is rampant, the city is like any other, people don't want the stench and the pollution, but there are no regulations and companies abuse it, or if there are, it's not enforced and through bribes you can avoid pretty much all charges.
Your south Slavic is very good tho, don't feel shy to ask us to repeat something if you didn't quite catch it
Zenica is definitely not that bad, it gets quite green around the center in the spring/summer.
Reminds me how NJ used to be (not sure if it still is as I hate driving through it) toxic stink due to these types of factories near highways close to NYC; wonder if they can install filters (and or change some of the features in those factories) to make it cleaner air as they did in many Chinese cities
The old head was a real Yugonostalgic person 😅 but in all seriousness he is from the area of Bosnia where biggest fighting between Bosniaks and Croats was happening during the war. "Srednja Bosna" was wild during the war and the fact that he is still there after everything that happened is remarkable.
Yeah that guy was a legend. Seems like he’s lived quite a life. I hope he’s doing well
Most ex Yugoslavian cities look bad in winter but very nice from April to Oktober because off lot off trees. IN Bosnia i personally like most Banjaluka.Walking in Banjaluka is just pleasure where ever you go ,its just well tought city with lot off green in almost every street
That’s cool, I think I’ll go to Banja Luka later this year, I’m excited to see
@@BenTheRules It reminds me a lot to Novi Sad
You should visit my Gracanica near Tuzla. I can help you. Good luck Ben.
I'll look into it. Cheers!
I know it, it's a tiny place which is an economic wonder. Many people have private bussinesses, export internationally and have some serious money!
😊😊😊
I would change the title because Zenica is definitely not the ugliest city in Europe😳Zenica is a beautiful city, with wonderful people, full of greenery. Every city is ugly and dirty in winter! Also,every city has its own beauty👍
“Ugliest” is in quotes because other people told me it was ugly, I found the city really nice 👍 like you said, so much green space, and really nice people. Pozdrav!
Why do they have the smoke? How can they prevent it? Just curious
because factorys, only if u close it hah
Bro i was born in zenica fml 💀😭😭😭
Since your previous video on Ramadan had a lots of views, can you visit some of the oldest Bosnian mosques to show us, and have a small talk with the hodža on regular topics, just like with Jozo? I would like to see it. Cheers.
Not a bad idea. Any mosques in particular you recommend (or churches for that matter, it would be cool to talk to people from all the religious groups in Bosnia)? I know some of the famous ones in Sarajevo but not too many outside of that
It would be cool to show us some old, traditional, wooden mosque or sufi Blagaj Tekke, for an example.
15:20 .....actually this is coking plant ...... (by the way ... why you don't filming termoelectric plant 300 m. tall chimney near Kakanj ....??
Welcome to visit Tuzla
My hometown and the most beautiful in the world.
It's not nice to call it the ugliest
Slazem se. It’s a really cool city, I enjoyed it!
Zenica is Blade Runner in middle of Balkan
There is no Bosnian or Croat or Serbian neighborhood in Zenica, and there haven't been any exclusive neighborhood. Zenica was a big melting pot and we are proud to be open to everyone.Do not put that nationalistic label on my hometown. Zenica always had Muslim majority and that majority always new and knows how to respect their neighbors regardless their religious or ethnic preferences.
One way ticket to zenica 😂😂 BEN THE RULES KNOWS NO BOUNDS
I never made it back from zenica
This old Croat is really fair and good.
He was an awesome guy to talk to
42.07 ❤my street
"No one ever comes back from Zenica" - was this a tribute to Zabranjeno Pusenje's song?
Hahaha no I just made a joke in the moment, I didn’t even hear of the song until after I made this video
Someone lied to you dude and yes there is a most dangerous part of Zenica... its called Jalija.
ahhh, I gotta go back now. Why's it dangerous?? I've never found a place in all of Bosnia that I thought was dangerous (except for the dogs lol)
"Those BABAS don't think that..."😂
You should come when it's summer
To mi je plan
Zenica is beautiful city..🇧🇦💚
sto po sto!
Visit us during summer time
Imagine that Americans are calling some city ugly? NY, WA are on CPR 😂
What Americans called it ugly?? I thought it was nice
Bravo za jezik i komunikaciju
Hvala!
You look like you caught covid. Show us some Serbian places or towns in Bosnia, it would be interesting to see your perspective on it.
Hahaha I always look terrible before I've had my morning coffee :) I plan to do some exploring in Republika Srpska this summer
@@BenTheRules I have some small health issues these days. So yeah, I still think you caught something 😀. Get well if I'm correct, if not, take a double turska ☕☕.
And thanks for showing us Zenica, as those not-very-popular places in which regular people are living are genuine. Cheers
There are no "Serbian" places in Bosnia. There are places where Serbs live and a re the majority, but it's not theirs any more than anyone else's.
As a bosniak. It's ok to me for serb to say "serbian place". He clearly thinks of bosnian town with serb majority. And we all know so please ignore it. @@sal78sal
@@sal78sal Right, that's what I thought.
Dude. Ugliest city? Omg there is not more preety city in bih. It just does not have any historicals in the downtown, but urbanisticaly its most beutiful and most green city in bih.
There is no city in bih with such big central park.
I agree, all the green space was really nice to see along the river. The šetalište along the Babina river was great as well, and the čaršija is really pretty. It’s definitely a lot nicer than people told me. I still think Sarajevo is prettier though :)
We have the best dogs in all Europe❤❤❤. Habibi come to Crkvice😂😂😂
Actually the Air quality has improved significantly in the last few days, because one of the biggest polluters 'koksara' from the big steel plant got shut down. Its a bit unfortunate you visited it before.. Don't get me wrong, Zenica is still one of the polluted cities in Bosnia, but there are at least 3-4 that are on the same level when it comes to pollution and two (Sarajevo and Tuzla) that are regularly more polluted. I've traveled much of Bosnia myself and I can't say that Zenica is the uglies in Bosnia (I think one of the uglies in Bosnia is Vareš) , even in Europe, there are way way uglier cities.
I heard about the koksara closing down, I’ll have to go back and see the difference. I didn’t think zenica was ugly either. It was a bit cloudy when I was there, but other than that the city itself was quite nice, especially the green space
How is it you know the language?
Been learning it for a few years now. I have some Bosnian friends from my home town so I’ve always been interested in the region, started learning in 2019 and visited for the first time in 2021
@@BenTheRules 💪💪
Zenica seems hopeless and where dreams go to die. This makes it the perfect Balkan city.
No it doesn't look hopeless lol.
It just looks kinda boring a bit from the outer look, but life is okay there.
was clean in 1996
nice video but in zenica is the biggest prison in the balkans
If you want 100% chance of food poisoning, go eat a burek at the zenica bus station. Lady does not wash her hands for days
Old Croat stole the video, it ended up being his video applause 👏
Hahaha yes he is a legend
3 people one language ..and one people when I think about it .....
Based
31.38 na tom mjestu je rijeka bila pregradjena, ljeti….svi ti jezici…
Crkvice mjesto mog rodjenja
Hvala
I lived in Zenica from '92 to '98 during my childhood/teenage years and during the aggression on my country. Zeničani su baš prijatni. Imam jedno lijepo sjećanje na Zenicu🤩When the weather is like that, it does look ugly, otherwise it's a nice place. When was this filmed?
I'm happy I got to see the city, it's much nicer than everyone says! I filmed this in mid-march. I have been busy lately, so it took me awhile to edit it :)
When I red the title I thought it eas in Russsia or something, when it is in my own country 😂 But it's not that ugly man, common, especialy in summer it's OK
I don’t think it’s ugly, I really liked the city. A ton of green space, really nice old town. And most importantly really nice people. I put “ugliest” in quotes because other people have talked shit about zenica to me, but I really liked it
I have a friend from there who says people are really much warmer there than in some other parts of Bosnia. Also socialist architecture is not ugly, it's just kind of on-repeat same thing but it's not that bad at all like it looks like to westerners, and it's very functional. On the inside, apartments can be very nice too. If you'd compare any city in the Balkans, some random apartment, with those videos from random ex-Soviet countries' apartments, then you'd see how much ex-Yugoslavian standard of living was higher and how much nicer they are, even if they are old. So it's not particularly depressive to live in such architecture either, unless you have some particularly bad neighbour that you're frustrated with, haha.
This city is known for pollution, but I mean every industrial city has pollution. I don't find it ugly at all, it's kinda normal, I was expecting ruined abandoned place in provincial Moldova or something, and I'm really surprised to see Bosnia here with such a title. We have such architecture in every city in former Yugoslavia's area so it looks mostly just normal. There are all types of such solitaire buildings and commie blocks in Zagreb, where I live, too. It's just normal, every city has that part of town. There is usually some more pretty, historical and more representative part of town too. Possibly Zenica has less of that. And that's where from you got these suggestions not to go there.
So the reason why everyone said "Don't go to Zenica" might be because it has no touristy spots and it's not particularly interesting. It's just industrial city and nothing much else. I assume it's okay to live there for a regular person but it must be boring for a tourist.
Probably it's a logical line of thought to tell you not to go there. I would suggest more touristy places than some other towns, if some tourist asked me where to visit.
Hey just to clear it up, I didn't find Zenica ugly at all, I wrote "ugliest" in quotes because other people have told me it's ugly, not to go, etc. I was really surprised by how nice the city was: especially the čaršija, and how the whole east side of the river was filled with green spaces. Plus, I actually really like the socialist architecture and what it represents. As you said, Zenica might not be a great place for tourists but I think the industry, history, people, etc make it really unique. Pozdrav :)
@@BenTheRules okay ❤️
Are you on tour in Bosnia specifically?
@@jj4774ns-te5px i have a remote job so i've been moving around europe (mostly between switzerland and the balkans) for the last few months. Sarajevo is one of my favorite cities so I ended up staying there for a couple months
its like government projects buildings in large cities like NYC repetitive same looking ugly building (well ugly in a way) but IMO todays newer glass buildings are even uglier and NYC is getting hundreds of them all over really ugly
Who said country bosnia is named after the river maybe the river is named after the country think about that. And there is Not any city in bosnia who is "ugly" every city looks beautiful ❤
food for thought my friend. And I agree, I still haven't found a city in Bosnia I don't like! pozdrav :)
@@BenTheRules sorry that i Commented even before watching the whole Video (which is beautiful of course) i traveled a lot through lot of european countries (ok except few Eastern countries) and one thing i can say is that bosnians are People with a big and honest heart i mean look at jozo that guy saw you for the first time and immediately spoke about everything in his life and problems around the country etc ...and i am sure he would give you his couch in his living room to sleep if you have said that you want to stay in zenica for few days. I didnt see such nice behaviour in any other european Region (except balkans) the people in rest of europe are often suspicious and dont even like to talk to strangers.
And i know for a fact that People from Sarajevo have their issues when it comes to zenica but for example i am from bihac and we would never Call zenica an ugly city maybe thats how Sarajevo sees zenica. 😊 i am sure they are old rivals
If you are really from Bihać then how the hell you don't know how Bosnia got it's name and why it definitely was a name after the river.
I hope you were just humorous in sarcastic way.
@@jj4774ns-te5px so you know for a fact and you have a proof for that? Or you just repeat what you have heard because Show us the evidence Where it clearly says that the country is named after river? Where ? Thats fabricated for sure and if you cant give us a Proof for that at least you should say we dont know. When i name my son after his grandfather there is the evidence who is older.however you cant say it in the case of river and country. And dont Proof it by showing me the book from 1977. I hope you understand And i wish you all the best
@@on1452
1)
if we're talking about serious books such as encyclopedias then, yes, they are still relevant.
I apologise if I sounded rude btw. I was just a little taken aback. I kind of thought everyone knew of how these claims have came to be and why are they taken seriously and as a scientific reference. My background of education is actually in archaeology so I take it for granted, but your reaction kind of suggested to me I shouldn't. Okay, never mind, I will try my best to explain it.
I suppose you do know the basic part of history, so that I don't repeat that part? First track of name "Bosna"? Konstantin Porfirogenit and his travel across the neighborhood areas to his empire?
So, even in that book from 10th century AD it was clearly described that Bosna is small country "encompassing the flow of spring, upper and lower flow of the river of the same name".
Now, maybe it's something new for you to hear about that, but - historically, rivers were mostly always named first by the local inhabitants, ahead of other toponims, for in ancient past, river was a factor that would be a reason to settle in that area, more important than any other factor. Only then, when they would find a river, they would start building the settlements near them. Settlements could also move across length of river, while they were finding a better geographic spot with more easy access to the river. It's a well known phenomenon that oftentimes rivers and cities carry the same name, and it derives from the same reason like in this case of the country.
Archeology suggests rivers get named first for: the voice about fertile meadows and accessible shores is what would attract travellers or people on conquest of new lands even from afar - to seek a path towards them, or permanent settlement around them. A century or two later, even if the name of the settlement could get changed (from political change or by initiative of local ruler etc), the river would almost never change its name, which is another telling argument.
Now, since we know southern Slavs started populating the upper Balkans between 6th and 7th century, and after that everyone was already fully settled in, and the De Administrando Imperio was written in 10th century, it tells you that the area was populated and formed into administratively "kingdoms" relatively recent in time to that moment, so Slavic sounding local toponims were given relatively recently too. Which kind of turns this talk back to idea of search for what is a likeable area to populate when you're on the conquest for a land for your peoples.
Archeology in-whole is not always based on concrete facts, but it's hypothesises have to be based on concrete facts, remnants, artifacts and healthy logic to connect all the dots that already are present. Archeology and history are also multidisciplinary and among other sciences, rely on linguistics too. I'll get back to that later too. -
Anyway, this thesis just follows the proven logic of well known (and fully proven) thought-pattern that people from antique times had, and is not offensive in any way, so I don't understand your reaction. Like - why?
Also, what is the thing about your "grandfather" metaphor? How should I understand that? It wasn't named after a river but after an older country? Which other and older country was called Bosna in order for Bosna to get a name Bosna? It doesn't really make sense.
Back to the situation of Southern Slavs of 7th century onwards, in new areas, that they will later settle in and call home :
Another variation to this phenomenon that rivers always get their name first, is that name of some river already existed in local area and southern Slavs merely accepted it, then decided to spread it in meaning to area around the river. (not necessarily southern Slavs, any population, anywhere, but right now we'll focus on us over here: )
Wow, I didn't hear about the air pollution heard about the city. It makes me appreciate me my Krajina. Honestly, I think the best people are from Krajina also Dalmatia Hrvatska Split, Šibenik,Dubovrnik, Rijeka, Obonjan, Zadar these are my favorites best memories and amazing people very welcoming. I never had a good feeling about Zenica. I met a few in the USA and had a bad impression of them they gave me negative vibes . People from Mostar are very nice also from Montenegro 🇲🇪 Beograd Serbia, Sandzak Serbia, Novi Sad Serbia, Macedonia is nice too and the people. Serbians honesty are very kind to me and welcomeing the best them and Croatians even i was born in Krajina and yes I am Muslim but Serbians still go out of there way to make me feel home happy and safe I am excited to explore Serbia 🇷🇸 God willing I want to see the entire Balkan. Thank you for alm of your videos 📹 good job.
Hey Ben. Welcome to my hometown. It is ugly, I agree but it has few interesting things
Enjoy
Zenica is pretty good. You can do much worse in this world than Zenica. Great parks and some nice neighbourhoods. There is probably not much to do in any city of 100,000 people.
I was really pleasantly surprised by how much green space there was, especially along both of the rivers. People talk about it like the whole city is one big factory, but there’s some really nice parts. Plus the čaršija is nice too
@@BenTheRules The parks and river walk is so impressive and urban. I also heard this trash talk about Zenica, but it's really a nice place. If it wasn't for the steelworks taking up half the city it might be worth living in. A Bosnian does not have a lot of cities to choose from. Zenica is top 5. Sarajevo, Tuzla, Mostar Banja Luka, Zenica. They are the only choices, no one is ever going to move to Jajce or Prozor. We only have 5 choices.
Zenica je divna
Sigurno. Go Hornets!
What are you talking about Ben?
nicaZe is completely Okay minus the usual economic stagnation.
I loved Zenica! Really cool city with nice people, and not as bad as people told me
Hahah izgleda da ne zna jaran ko je real madrid
Amerikanac veliš ?? Jesi ko što sam i ja😅. Možda nije loša ideja ,al iskrenost je neprocjenjiva vrijednost.
Bravo Amerikanac na Bosanskom 👏 🙌 hehe.
Hahaha Hvala ti!
This video is definitely made look Zenica much worse than it is. City is normal and nice and there is a huge park and nice streets with social life and full coffee shops. For some reason this guy wants to make Zenica look bad.
Not at all, I wanted to explore the zeljezara bc I heard a lot about it, but other than that the city was really pretty. I showed the park in this video and mentioned the green space, next to both the Bosna and the Babina (I especially liked that part, in crkvice). I didn’t show the old town in this video but it was also quite nice. I’d love to come back in summer, too. Sorry if I didn’t give that impression enough in this vid, but it really surpassed my expectations, especially after the things people told me about the city
Zenica is very beautiful city ... Change the name of the video
i put "ugliest" in quotes because other people said that to me. I found it nice though
Change the name of the video i't s not nice and also it's not the truth
Zenica Rules! ❤
shoutout zenica!
Dobar video može li obostrana podrska.Pozdrav
hvala, pozdrav!
J#$%@ TI MAMU ZENICA JE DOBRO PRIRODNA LIJEPO VRIJEME DOBAR KISIK SAMO STO SI TI ENGLEZ I NISTA NE RAZUMIJES
😂😂😂 chill bro, možda nisi pogledao video, volio sam Zenicu. tako sam napisao naslov samo zbog ljudi koji su rekli da nije lijpo grad. Ali kako ti si rekao ima priroda, takoder ima zeleno, ima fina čaršija, ima dobri ljudi. A nisam englez hahahaha
What?! BiH had highways before 😂😂 Dude - research research research
Really? I didn’t know that. My Bosnian friends have always told me there was no Highway except the one under construction. The last I heard was in 2022 when one of them told me they had finished some stretch of highway around Banja Luka. But either way, the A1 highway is brand new and that’s why I was excited to be on it
@@BenTheRules Infrastructure was laid out after wwii by Yugoslavia, who built major construction projects for the country and Middle East. The war and post war corruption had the infrastructure neglected, so this was modernization project, that is taking forever tbh due to mentioned political corruption. Sorry man but I am sensitive to the fact that the history of the most developed socialist country in the world pre war is now being erased and the narrative placed as BiH is the country of the Global South. Zenica is my hometown and while not perfect, it was one of the best laid out towns in BiH on urban planning side. I appreciate what you do but who ever is telling you these stories was probably born after Yugoslavia fell apart. Info is only Google away😉 Interesting perspective though. Cheers.
Btw, I lived 2 minutes from the highway ☺️
@@lanaoppen438 do you mean that there were more highways during Yugoslavia that aren’t around anymore? I didn’t mean any disrespect, by the way. I’m rooting for Bosnia harder than anyone, hoping it can overcome the corruption and realize its full potential, that’s why it was cool for me to see such a nice highway. I really enjoyed Zenica, too 👍
I did not take your comments as disrespectful just slightly not based in history and facts and that is common nowadays that new-wave Bosnians are trying to rewrite the history or maybe more benign are simply misinformed.
Who says its ugliest? Lol
Several people both tourists and Bosnians (not from zenica of course) told me it wasn’t a nice city, was really polluted, etc. As you see in the video tho it was overblown, I really enjoyed the city. A ton of green space by both rivers, plus the carsija was really nice
Im proud Bosnian 💙🇧🇦💛⚜☝️🙌 but have to say 8 months of the year Zenica is depressing.
I would not live in Zenica but I think there are far uglier cities in Europe in countries like Slovakia, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine
Didi ispran mozak komunizmom, Bosna je postojala davno prije jugoslavije i bosanski jezik. Pristat u jednoj jugoslaviji da ucis srpsko-hrvatski je diskriminacija prema ostalim narodima.