What Would a 2023 British and Irish Lions Squad Look Like? (Selected by a Kiwi) đ„
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 02. 2023
- I asked my followers if they wanted a Pasifika World XV, or a 2023 hypothetical British and Irish Lions 38-man squad first. My followers asked for a British and Irish Lions team and here we go!
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No James Ryan,Jvp,Finn Russell, Tuipukotu and Hugo Keenan is shocking!
No, just logical. The most important part of playing 10 is game management. Itâs for that very reason that I donât want Beaudy as the ABsâ 10âŠ
Keenan is the form fullback in the northern hemisphere. The idea that Russell canât manage games was relevant in 2015, I donât think his game management is an issue anymore. Joe Hawkins is madness
Not mad at all. The idea of an âinside centreâ is dead these days. The âsecond-fiveâ is well and truly back đ
Bold call on Russell who has been the stand-out 10 in the 6Ns so far. I would say he would be the starting fly half in most people Lions' team at the moment.
No. Heâs the worst 10 Iâve ever seen at test level. Scotlandâs win over Wales is the only game in the Townsend era in which theyâve played strike moves off 10, with Russell in the starting lineup.
Even Beauden Barrett who I wouldnât want anywhere near the ABs can manage tactical kicks betterâŠ
I donât want a 10 who will one-man team it and put their own highlight reel before the team. Should Russell improve, Iâll give credit where itâs due. Should he go back to his usual form against France, Iâll explain why he was much better against WalesâŠ
No Hugo Keenan, Robbie Henshaw or James Ryan. Madness how they arenât included!
Not madness at all, itâs just called being unbiased đ€·ââïž
@@TheBlackJersey Hugo Keenan is arguably the best full back int he world right now having beaten all the best teams in the world and Robbie Henshaws accolades speak for themself. Heâs Irelands best centre. And James Ryan should have been on the list B&I Lions tour. Jonny Hill isnt even in the England squad anymore and heâs been completely average for Sale Sharks this season. Ryan outplayed Willemse & Flanent last week & AWJ & Beard the week before that. 50 odd caps by the age of 25/26 is some feat! But youâre entitled to your opinion I guess. đ€·đ»ââïž
AWJ has shown no indication in the last 12 months that he is able to perform at a Lions level.
Hence why heâs in my mid-week side just for experience. With Itojeâs form falling completely off a cliff, you might as well put him there for the culture. Itâs the same kinda thinking of having Schalk Brits in the 2019 Boks team đżđŠ
Henderson ahead of Ryan, I agree but amazed Keenan not included
All opinions are welcome đ
Everything you said Jonny Hill does well Ritchie Gray does better - The form he's in at the minute blows Hill out the water imo
Even for the the dirty work aspect Itoje is probably the master of that stuff. Was surprised he wasn't picked.
Itojeâs form has never recovered from the 2021 Lions tour. Gray is next in line for sure đ
Right at this moment the majority of the starting line up should probably be Irish and Scottish players, however I'm not convinced yet that Finlay Bealham is good enough yet to be there.
No harm in disagreeing!
Finn Russell is miles better than Smith. His performance in this six nations is next level.
No.
@@TheBlackJersey đI'm glad you elaborated more. Marcus Smith needs afew more years under his belt. His decision making under pressure and ability to change up his attack is one dimensional. But we will see in time. For now I think your wrong. Cheers
Great content as always, only changes i would make would be Russell and Keenan in, maybe for Hogg and Farrell
As many said I think Russel and Keenan should make the squad and I think Ryan/Itoje should be in ahead of Wyn Jones and Hill (both of whom have lost their starting places for country)
Big weakness in the centre for me though, Henshaw and Ringrose would be my starting test duo, although I do rate Slade very highly but Ringrose is just playing unbelievably well for club and country for the past year
Love the selection. Keenan should be in as starting fullback. I thinks he is the best fullback in the world
should just be irish and scottish playrs at this point
đđđ
Personally
1.Andrew Porter
2.Ronan Kelleher
3.Tadhg Furlong
4.Maroe Itoje
5.Tadhg Beirne
6.Courtney Lawes
7.Josh Van Der Flier
8.Caelan Doris
9.Jamison Gibson Park
10.Johnny Sexton
11.Duhan Van Der Merwe
12.Robbie Henshaw
13.Garry Ringrose
14.Andrew Conway
15.Hugo Keenan
Replacements/other tourists:
Freddie Steward
Dan Sheehan
Ollie Chessum
James Ryan
Ellis Genge
Zander Fagerson
Peter O Mahony
Anthony Watson
Darcy Graham
James Lowe
Mack Hansen
Bundee Aki
Huw Jones
George Ford
Jac Morgan
Tom Curry
Jamie Ritchie
Sione Tuipolotu
Ollie Lawrence
Ben White
Connor Murray
Liam Williams
Pierre Schoeman
George Turner
Cian Healy
Hugo Keenan not included - really
Steward is the worldâs best fullback and Hogg can join the mid-week sideâs spine with his Scotland teammates⊠only logical⊠the rest of my first-choice spine is Irish so everything is sweet đ€·ââïž
â@@TheBlackJersey in what world is steward better than Keenan. The french have two full backs alone who are more competent than steward in Melvyn jaminet and Thomas Ramos. Don't get me wrong, steward is good but not best in the world good. That spot goes to keenan
No keenan seems a bit mad to me I'd also have mccloskey
Mclosky for aki for sure
Not picking Cian Healy and Josh Van Der Flier at hooker is shocking!
đđđ
1. Ellis Genge
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. Jamie Ritchie
7. Josh Van Der Flier
8. Caelan Doris
9. Jamison Gibson-Park
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Duhan Van Der Merwe/James Lowe
12. Sione Tuipulotu
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Mack Hansen/James Lowe
15. Hugo Keenan
16. Ronan Kelleher/George Turner
17. Andrew Porter
18. Finlay Bealham
19. Ian Henderson/Richie Gray
20. Lewis Ludlam/Peter O'Mahoney
21. Ben White
22. Finn Russell/Marcus Smith
23. Bundee Aki/Henry Arundel
The slashes are one I could go either way on, depending on tactics and form.
But that's 18/23 Irish players on the high end, and 13/23 on the low end. Just my opinion of course.
Strong team. Even though Im Irish I like the look of Scotlands Gilchrist at Second Row and Huw Jones at centre. Both for the bench.
As a Welshman, I'm pleased to see you've selected Alun Wyn Jones. Unfortunately, he's retired from rugby, full stop.
I feel like you could just send most of the Irish team and come out looking pretty good at the moment đ
I agree đđ
Shouldnât the âbest fullback in the worldâ be able to tackle people occasionally? Feddrie Steward hasnât been doing that at all in the first two rounds of the six nations.
Stewardâs tackle rate against Italy was 3/4, while his tackle rate against Scotland 2/3. Nothing alarming there đ
@@TheBlackJersey oh my bad, Iâve seen different stats.
No worries mate đđ
@@FJM992 to be fair alot of are not kicking it to Freddie now. Lessons learnt
@@TheBlackJersey Really? He was tackling like his hands were covered in butter against Scotland. I'm absolutely positive I saw him get slipped in at least 3 tackles in that game. He was awful defensively.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the tip Derek! Iâll update this list after the Six Nations since I uploaded this video one year ago đ
Wow, there are some strange selections there! Hugo Keenan is the best 15 in the 6 nations this year, I know you don't rate Russell, but to not even pick him as a bench player to make a difference is beyond me. No James Ryan, no Liam Williams, no Hamish Watson.
The most important criteria of a 10 is game management⊠up until Scotlandâs win over Wales, Iâd never seen it from him in his entire careerâŠ
When Scotland beat England in Twickenham in 2021 his game management was absolutely incredible. Kicked England off the park and had Scotland playing almost the entire game in England's half. To suggest he didn't effectively manage that game is clearly. Not correct.
No, he was signed because Racing 92 care more about marketing than results.
That's the beauty of lions changes weekly . In 2013 there was 15 englishmen in squad until final game . When Wales beat em 30.3 . But I HAVE to say this .I dont think players who qualify on residency should play for lions if proof of ancestry is clear that's ok . But like Te'o few years ago landed in Ireland, posed with Ireland shirt . Played 4 England and straight in the lions team . Not to much argument with numbers apart from after France thumping I'd probably have 6 English max đ
I like the explanations for a lot but saying Smith is the best 10 in the world when he was exposed in defense constantly against Scotland is a wild claim.
Iâd hardly call the Scotland game an exposure of Smith defensively at all. Smithâs tackle rate was 6/2 compared to 11/17 from Russell, 7/4 from Steyn, 6/10 from Malins and 4/7 from Farrell⊠Smith wasnât even close to the worst defensive back in the match.
Iâm currently in the process of driving my Wales vs England analysis and England missed Smith a lot on attackâŠ
No harm in disagreements though, all constructive opinions are welcome đđ
@@TheBlackJersey It's not his tackle rate that was necessarily the problem. His positioning was poor in defense, never really knowing where he should be and leaving gaps that left Marchant exposed because he and Farrell couldn't figure out who was meant to be in the 10 channel.
I like Smith, I think he'll grow into being a great 10 but he isn't there yet.
@@Budge94 He literally asked at the end of the video.
Keenan is best fullback in the world and James ryan is probably 2nd best lock possible behind beirne
2 words, Finn Russell?
2 words: game management đ„¶
@@TheBlackJersey fair enough, Owen Farrell is the definition of consistency, Iâm just surprised Finn didnât make your selection. I think Marcus smith has spent too much time watching Finn, I think heâs naturally better than Finn in the same sort of mold. In a couple of years, Marcus is going to be fantastic.
@@okiwatashi2349 maybe? I kinda wonder if Smith is naturally talented then picked up game management through all those England camps before finally debuting in 2021, he was always picked for them but never played in the 2010âs đ§
@@TheBlackJersey wouldnât he be too young? I think heâs only 22 now?
Yup, heâs 24 years old now and was first called up to England in 2017 at 18 years old. Just didnât play a test until 2021 đ
No issues with your front row options. Sound choices.
I would have James Ryan for Jonny Hill all day long. Hill can't even get into a poor England team right now.
Itoje for AWJ. Itoje not as good as he was but AWJ is too close to pension age. Scotlands Gilchrist (6' 9") also ahead of AWJ and Hill.
Back row ok but I agree Curry is living on reputation. However he can play 6 or 7 which helps.
For scrum halves look at Rhys Webb of Wales over Price or White.
Finn Russell of Scotland has to be in the tour party ahead of Smith or Farrell.
In the centre its hard to pick Slade with England doing so poorly but I agree Hew Jones has been a revelation. A fit Robbie Henshaw would have to be in the party.
But I'm really struggling with your back 3.
Hugo Keenan is the form full back in the world right now along with Ramos of France, so has to be the Test full back. I agree about Freddie Stewart but Keenan ahead of him. Hogg is a problem. Not played well this year in spite of being in a very good Scottish team.
The wings have to be James Lowe, Mack Hansen, van der Merwe and one other. But I do like Darcy Graham of Scotland for the last spot.
My test back 3 would be all Irish. Lowe Hansen Keenan. Combined they're the best back 3 in world rugby and have bested every country they've played. All 3 are candidates for 6 Nations player of the tournament and are miles ahead of everyone on 6 Nations tour stats.
The only problem with my choices is you could easily end up with a complete Irish back line lol.
@@ballinlough12345 When you compare this England back line against previous England teams it must rank as one of the weakest. No direction, no attacking strategy, and no defensive structure.
Ryan was IMMENSE in the six nations. Hill is nowhere near him. And as much as AWJ is an all time great of the sport, he shouldn't be in the mix for a 23 Lions squad.
@@skiptracerbob I agree. If you're going to pick AWJ you might as well dust off O'Connell to partner him lol.
No Hugo Keenan or Finn Russell?
I knew Iâd get a few comments from their supporters aye ha ha! My thoughts on their playing ability is pretty well-documented, nothing against them as people though đ
@@TheBlackJersey I get you have your opinion, but surely it has to have shifted after the wales and england games. russell beats farrell every day
I prefer giving my rugby opinions time to change. I feel itâs wrong to jump the gun and make a big call off a single performance. Hence why I await the end of the Six Nations to name a Team of the Tournament, instead of naming one beforehand. I prefer to keep an open mind. If Russell performs the way he did against Wales then sure, Iâll give him the 10 shirt for Team of the Tournament, but Iâm not going to suddenly have a radical change of opinion and say heâs the worldâs best 10 you know? đ
No Finn Russell??????????????????????????????????????????/
Game management > one-man teaming it đŁđŽó §ó ąó łó Łó Žó ż
#BeaudenBarrett #GarethAnscombe
@@TheBlackJersey the best at present
@@TheBlackJersey not even in the top 3 is dire
â@@TheBlackJersey Kinda mad to suggest his game management isn't also an area of strength...
@@ohIshatmyself especially thinking smith has better game management at test level
Wheres James Ryan!???
Mine would be
Porter (Genge)
Sheehan (Turner)
Furlong (Bealham)
Ryan
Gray (Chessum)
Curry
Van Der Flier (Watson)
Dorris
Gibson Park (Mitchell or White)
Russell (Farrell)
Van der Merwe
Tuipulotu
Ringrose
Watson
Keenan (Daly, maybe LRZ)
I wouldnât pick Ryan but thatâs not too shabby of a team youâve got đ
@@TheBlackJersey selection is the most interesting thing to me! Sets up how you will be able to play!
Class video mate. I watched Jonny Hill a lot at club level. I was convinced heâd be a top player. He looked strong and ferocious. But his England form was short and he looked slow and clumsy. I think Sinckler would be a good bench player at tight head or mid week starter. And I do think Hugo Keenan on form would have to start at 15.
I donât trust Sinckler for discipline aye đ
Hugo Keenan is by far the best 15 in the world, idk how he isn't making it
No Itoje but Alun Wyn Jones, no Finn Russel who is probably the best fly half in the world at this time? Lots of potential not included. Sorry but nowhere near the correct selections in my humbleâŠ
I think you may want to watch my upcoming video about Scotland vs France⊠itâll do a pretty self-explanatory job of showcasing Russellâs brain explosionsâŠ
@The Black Jersey I watched the match on television live. Yes, occasional blips but any are counteracted by his brilliance in making the game flow. I suppose it depends on what you want to see, a steady eddy like Farrel who can tackle and kick (normally) strategically, or a fly half in the mould of Barry John. I know where my money would be.
Finn Russel is not best in world
@Wesley FOLEY valid argument so who do you consider is?
Itoje should definitely have made it. Seems to have regained his form with the game against italy. Also Hogg over Keenan is questionable considering how off form Stuart Hogg is.
Iâll await until the end of the Six Nations to make any huge calls like that aye. Iâm definitely not ignoring Keenan though, I gave him Player of the Week for last round đ
Hogg is shaking off injury. I'd say he's been better than Steward so far.
Itoje will definitely go on the next Lions, no coach will leave him out .On form Keenan would go instead Hogg . I like Farrell and Sexton however I donât think they would make a Lions in 2023. Finn Russell or Dan Bigger instead . What about Henshaw and possibly Lawrence ? đ
Give Lawrence a few more years to recapture his peak form of 2021 and Iâd say he could go on a Lions tour for sure!
Steward?!? Name one aspect where he is superior to Keenan? Keenan has been flawless since replacing Kearney and has improved significantly each season. Only player who potentially challenges him at 15 in the world is W Jordan. Itoje may not be in the best of form but he's by far the best lock in Britain and Ireland. Henshaw was arguably lions player of the series in SA and is ahead of Aki every day of the week. Agree on Smith over Russell not because he can't game manage but because of his disciplinary issues in the past. Guy has a very questionable attitude and if he's not playing you don't need that around the camp.
Will Jordan has yet to play a single minute of test rugby at 15 đ
Anyway, glad to see Iâm not the only one who says Smith over Russell đđ
Maro best lock in ireland and Britain. I'd think tadgh beirne would like to have a word
You need to watch more northern hemisphere club rugby to see the strengths/weaknesses of these players This cannot be based on 6 Nations as there are players with credit from previous experience. Marcus Smith is fantastic maybe the Irish pack can get him some quick ball. Love the video idea nicely done . Subbed
Cheers for subscribing đ
Good choices mostly. All excellent players. Also has to be tough to balance nations. That said I don't agree with all. Itoje for Henderson. Also James Ryan has found form again (though I understand you wanting to see if he maintains it). I know you're not a big fan of Keenan as you've said before but that is a big call.
One thing I would ask, if possible, is who would coach and where they tour? This means a lot as eg Gatland will play power and size but Farrell would play a structured running game. Either work differently against the Boks or the All Blacks.
Which brings me to out half, Sexton or Farrell are definitely the call for disciplined structured game organising and controlling better. Think Sexton controls better but Farrell kicks better so weather may be a factor there. As a Kiwi you're bound to love Smith, so exciting in breakaway play and loose ball. I think he doesn't have the experience to lead a Lions team though he will in the future. Finn Russell is fantastic right now but you just never know with him. Biggar could turn it around yet. He's got the talent if he finds form. I see your problem. Ross Byrne was good last week but that doesn't get you a Lions tour.
Decent team overallđ
It's difficult to see how D'Arcy graham would be in the starting line up given he's been injured since November and hadn't touched a ball. Kinghorn or steyn would be good shouts for the back three. Kinghorn is comfortable at 11 or 15, but dear christ, not 10.
Yeah Kinghorn is good but hasn't quite nailed himself in with defending at 15 so I left him out.
Unpopular opinion: Russell doesn't make it for me either. For all his swagger and tricks against France, they still lost by 11 points.
Exactly. Russell is the biggest problem in the Scotland team. Highlight reels donât reflect reality đŻ
Yeah but players like him shine in a team that is pretty much full of talented individuals like Barbarians/Lions. Less time to get a functioning and settled gameplan that players like Sexton/Farrell need to thrive
Johnny Hill ??? no keenan ? james Lowe ahead of Hansen too
Hansen is a more well-rounded player than Lowe, offloads a bit more and is more trustworthy as a defender. Seems to have a better kicking game. I never rated Lowe while he played for the Chiefs aye, I disagreed with lots of the fellow Kiwis saying he should get an ABs cap đ
@@TheBlackJersey hansens a run in merchant
Finn Russell is the best no 10 in the world.
Yup game management needs to be at the forefront of a 10âs impact on the pitch.
next to Johnnie Sexton
@@TheBlackJersey clearly donât watch Russel enough if you think he canât manage games, especially if you have Marcus smith in there
Maybe I'm wearing tinted lenses with the hindsight of the Six Nations as a whole but Keenan is simply the best 15 in the world right now and should be there with Steward. I'd also find a place for Ryan (although it would likely be over Henderson so as an Ulsterman I'll let that one pass!đ)
Canât go on a tour without the experience aye mate đđ
1. Ellis Genge
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. James Ryan
6. Jamie Ritchie
7. Jac Morgan
8. Caelan Doris
9. Jamieson Gibson Park
10. Finn Russell
11. Duhan Van De Merwe
12. Sione Tuipilotu
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Louis Rees Zammit
15. Hugo Keenan
16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Andrew Porter
18. Finlay Bealem
19. Maro Itoje
20. Matt Fagerson
21. Ben White
22. Johnny Sexton
23. Anthony Watson
Nice picks đ
World player of the year no đ ??
Did you just start jac Morgan over JVDF?
No way Russell is left out
Game management comes before highlight reels.
@TheBlackJersey I'm sorry, have you seen his stats this 6 nations? Most run metres, most kick metres, most assists, good kicking stats(unlike farrells who is under 50%).
Those stats donât fall under game management. Running an attack structure isnât something you measure in stats, itâs something you measure by watching the gameâŠ
@@TheBlackJersey ok, we will test your theory next week.England will get Hammered.
Russell wonât be the reason.
I think keenans showing in the 6n shows why he should have made this list, combination building may be important but the sheer talent can't be understated
Seriously at least 11 Leinster men in starting 15 plus 1 other âïž man starting 15 - plus 5 âïž on bench with Finn Russell - 1 token đŽó §ó ąó ·ó Źó łó ż player who plays in midweek matches đđ
1. Genge
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Beard
5 James Ryan c)
6 Fagerson
7 Van Der Flier
8 Doris
9 Gibson Park
10 Sexton
11 Lowe
12 Jones
13 Ringrose
14 Stewart
15 Keenan
Harsh on England but fair play đ
I know you've done it for 2023 but if I'm looking ahead to 2025 this is the selection I'd go with: obvs older players like Sexton, Jamie George don't make it.
1. Genge Porter, Schoeman
2. Kelleher, Sheehan, Lake
3. Furlong, Fagerson, Stuart
4. Beirne,Itoje, Chessum
5.Ryan, J Gray
6.Ritchie, Morgan
7. Van der Flier, Curry/Reffell
8. Doris, Fagerson/Dombrandt
9.Gibson-Park, Price, Van Poortvilet
10. Russell, Farrell, Smith
11. Graham, LRZ
12.Henshaw, Tompkins, Hawkins
13. Ringrose, Tuipulotu
14. VDM, Adams, Arundell
15. Keenan, Steward
Very good selections! Will be very good to see Rees-Zammit, Reffell and Lake come into their own in the next few years!
Hugo Keenan ???..
Are the B & I lions playing this year?.....Against whom?
As said in the video, this is just hypothetical. Their next tour is to Australia in 2025.
@@TheBlackJersey sorry sir,i only skip watched...thanx for the info..i love when B&I Lions play,doesnt matter what country they playing...cheers from a saffađđđ
Very good squad although others may beg to differ on some of your choices
I have to say odd choices all over. Tupilotu, Russell, Richie Gray and George turner not in? Darcy Graham has not played. Bundee Aki is not in the Ireland side. Alun Wyn in and Faletau not. Keenan??? Nuts!
Nothing odd about picking Caelan Doris over Taulupe Faletau, Doris is improving insanely đ€·ââïž
10 Scottish.. that's a lot of players that don't know how winning something works.
Uhhhh theyâre coming second in the Six Nations right nowâŠ.
@@TheBlackJersey cool, when do we give them the coming second right now trophy?đ all jokes aside, I think think lions players need to be serial winners from clubs like Saracens and Leinster etc.
They're ranked ahead of England in the world rankings. They're no joke and have seriously improved in the past few years.
You mean 10 English your having a laugh rank rotten through six nations
Your choice of fly halves is what would be chosen by an All Black Coach not by a Lions Coach. Even the England coach doesn't rate Farrell any more
Farrell is literally the captain⊠I wouldnât call this a case of him not being rated, Iâd call this a case of his lower leg injury clearly needing better treatment đ€
Also, thatâs kinda the point of the video, itâs a team Iâd pick đđđ
Why do you say Bortwick doesnât rate Farrell ? He retains the captaincy. I donât think Farrell will tour again as a Lion , certainly not as a starter although Gatland does like him and trust him in a senior player role .
I have to say as much as I love watching Russell, I agree with the presenter and wouldnât want him in my team. Heâs as much of a liability as an asset and I donât think thatâs acceptable for the really top teams. As crazy as it is to say it because of his age, Sexton is probably still the best 10 in the world in my opinion. The guy excels in every area.