K-OG reacts to THE RISE OF BANGTAN | Chapter 04: Reflection [Reaction]
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- This was a wonderful look at how BTS...or RM found his way. Wondering through his life at the time. He seemed really hurt from all the negativity, but soon figures out that proving himself to others was not important. Learning to love himself and his choices was always the most important. I may have covered many subjects that might not sit well with some viewers. I hope you guys understand that I was trying to explain all sides of the issue. Not siding with big companies.
You were so correct about RM at the end of the video. He logically came to the conclusion that he didnt need to seek the validation of the underground or try to fit himself into a box. That was a big first step but his bigger journey was growing to a point where he wasn't emotionally craving that validation or feeling the want to fit somewhere. I'm proud of him for working hard to grow in that way. It must have been hard. Belonging to a community that has such a strong sense of identity and culture attached to it must have meant a lot for a 14 year old (13 internationally) child growing in that space and finding himself and feeling like he was a part of something and would always belong while he grew in his career. He only joined BTS because he thought it would be a rap group that would be trying to lead hip hip music as Bang PD had pitched it to him. Having the whole project change on him and then suddenly having his group become an idol group had to be a lot to come to terms with since that's not what he agreed to when he signed. I can only imagine how betrayed he felt to have his community turn on him like that and get the amount of hate he got. It's no wonder he struggled so much. Losing a community you built your identity around is a heartbreaking thing. Especially if a part of you agrees with why they turned on you and you have to struggle with your own perception of yourself.
This was a good Namjoon episode. You can see how through all those struggles he actually figured out and found out a lot about himself.
Another great video. Namjoon was and is still so wise for his age. I sometimes forget how old he was in these early chapters. He deflected a lot of hate comments towards the guys in the early years by not translating the hate parts or even sometimes changing it to something else just so the other members wouldn’t be hurt by the comments. I too don’t understand why people put so much effort into hating other groups, just listen and support your favorites, that’s it. 💜
i just remember what Tableau said about his daughter that teenagers also appreciate good meaningful lyrics and that most people just understimate young peoples minds
I doubt many underestimate young people these days. I was referring to late 80's and 90's pop market. Even then there were musicians in Korea who had much depth in lyrics. You should check out group like Deul Guk Wha, Yoo Jae ha, Shin Hae Chul, etc. The level of musical sophistication was high and some were socially very conscious. In a country and times where, SO MANY songs were banned by the government for so many ridiculous reasons, including what resembles 'thought crimes', targeting a simpler market was needed for Pop music companies. Even during this time, many young people were very aware. However, the pop scene, that became Kpop later, was dominated by the young girls who needed a little fantasy and sweetness from the overwhelming pressure of studying and social control. No dating, no makeup, no choice in clothes, no parties, no everything other than college prep was the norm. It was such sad times and a lot of it is still relevant. If you watch drama like Reply series, you can kind of get what it was like. This was the niche market they were specifically targeting.
RM is formidable in his intelligence, those who knew him during the underground period and later turned on him certainly didn't understand did they? Even then he was amazing in his clear thinking and determination. Surely you'd think they would have know whatever he set his mind to he'd succeed??? Wonder how they feel now. This teaches us NEVER judge and belittle anyone, anytime. You never know where they or you will end up.
Suga too of course, & the others, but this chapter is mainly focused on RM and his journey. An important learning process, for I think he had to get there mentally, emotionally and even spiritually in order, as leader, to guide the others. It's amazing really how this team came together and I for one will continue to say they are a God send for our times. Look how they have touched and continue to touch, the lives of millions of all ages and from all walks of life and professions etc. Even Bang PD has said he has no idea how to even try to replicate this team. We are truly blessed.
How should I say this but the rap scene usually have people who believe in themselves, a little too much at times. And they felt that they were doing 'REAL' music while these idols and companies were making trash. Not only that they probably felt like these fakes were taking their glory and money. Because it was tough for these underground guys. It probably was not easy accepting one of them becoming an idol. In that sense it must have been immensely difficult for RM to make a conscious decision to become an idol. I could kinda understand both sides but treating people with no respect and being full off themselves can not be accepted. Like I said, people like Tiger JK, Tablo and other real OG's accepted them with open arms.
I apologize if I am spamming your comments, just want to say, John, you are such a thoughtful man. Meaning you put so much thought into your reactions. Thank you!
With such sweet comments, please spam away. Spam spam spam......
On the point about writing, I saw it more, as the creator trying point out that although KPop's original target market was young girls, management underestimated the scope of what the audience wanted. Shallow music works and provides a great return of investment, but BTS also sort of proved that the market craved something more, and that the market could be expanded by writing about more. Also, it's not necessarily about recruiting indie writers rather than the company writers, but allowing the idols to participate in production and writing. Who better to highlight the nuances of the target market, than the idols themselves who are part of that market and going through the same growing pains.
💯 exactly, they were the evolutionary next step they needed. That is why they became BTS of today. I was talking about where and how it started. For quite a while, they had to adhere to the market to survive.
@@komerican-og I think you're still overlooking the built-in false assumptions about, "the market." Chief among them is the notion that middle school-aged girls don't want meaningful lyrics. Second to that are the assumptions about target audience. It's not merely that BTS was the next step, it's that music executives had, by & large, been wrong about what, "the market," demanded. It's largely a myth that, in any industry, products & services always reflect demand. Free markets are a myth - most of us live under some form of crony capitalism where top executives tend to shape corporations in their own image, rather than objectively assess demand.
Record execs are overwhelmingly middle-aged men with outsized egos and particular tastes. So, to give one example, if Idol music was aimed chiefly at middle school aged girls, then virtually all of the first, second & third generation girl groups with sexy concepts would never have been created. I simply don't believe that 12 y/o South Korean girls were demanding an entire group of women in their 20s pole dancing to a slow song. No, that was an appeal to straight male tastes and it's part of why girl groups have been so successful - their audience is largely men, esp. military-aged men. I don't recall any tween girls trying to drag Taeyeon off-stage and kidnap her. I do recall what YG said about disbanding 2NE1& creating BlackPink.
Male music execs simply make the false assumption that middle school aged girls are also thinking solely with their gonads. If we stop & think about the male Idol groups that have been the most successful, the actual blueprint was Seo Taiji & Boys all along. Groups like Epik High, Big Bang & BTS appeal to a wide demographic and are known more for their creativity & skills than their looks alone.
I submit to you that most of the music execs in the S. Korean Idol business started getting high on their own supply once the first generation started being successful. Instead of following market research, they started believing their own PR about being geniuses and used money + cronyism to drive demand toward the groups they created. It's also the explanation for so much behind-the-scenes fuckery, like Burning Sun & the, "sponsorships," aka prostitution.
TL;DR Male Idol music execs spend too much time thinking with their egos & peepees and not enough time actually listening to what music fans want.
@@goreyfantod5213 porn sells. Twighlight sells. Fan fiction sells. You are sexist.
Please refer to my answer in other comments. However, there were many artist with depth and sophistication of lyrics and music even during 80's and early 90's. They did not make much money due to lack of record buying. Bootleg was abundant, people were comparatively poor and the music market was very small and limited. Pop music industry at the time needed a niche that was very loyal and had thirst for sweet relief from life. These were young girls of that time. Who had no life to speak of. Most weren't even allowed to read books that did not help in college prep, let alone dating, socializing etc. This was the market that sustained what became the KPOP scene. It has evolved much since then, although many problems still remain. However, I do not appreciate your wide generalization in the other way either. All market is diverse. Look at the western market that is supposedly well-developed. All the sex, guns, drugs and vanity focused music that seem to sell very well. I am just glad that Kpop is maturing into a genre where self producing and depth and sophistication in content are gaining ground. Lastly, I have spoken of this many times but you should not look down upon pop music in it's stereotypical form either. Some are food for soul, others are like a soda pop or a stiff drink. Music can enrich us in so many ways other than being a source of contemplation. Sometimes, we just need to feel happy, romantic, funny etc. In my eyes, they are all significant spices that add much to our lives.
예전에 진이 7명 모두 너무 착하다고, 또 뷔가 멤버들 모두 학교에서 각 반에 한명씩있는 선한 영향력을 주는 사람들 같다고 한적이 있어요.
그리고 저녁마다 모여서 대화를 한다고요.
게다가 이렇게 훌륭한 리더가 있어서 학교에서 수업을 좀 덜 듣고 학원을 안다녔지만 멤버들도 좋은 영향을 안받을 수가 없죠..
그리고 말씀하신것처럼 어린 아이돌들을 공인처럼 다루고 실수도 용납하지 않고 억울한 비난을 가하는 사회가 정말 이해가 안돼요.
제가 나이많은 아미로서 방탄에 제일먼저 입덕한 계기가 도대체 부모와 떨어져서 지냈는데 어쩜 저렇게 훌륭한 청년들로 자랐을까..하는 점이었고, 또 부모로서 많이 반성도 하면서였어요.
이 시리즈 보면서 점점더 반하실거에요.
그리고 잘 만들어진 다큐지만 가끔 오해의 소지가 있는 번역들이 있는데 그점 매번 고쳐주시는거 감사합니다~💜💜💜
rise of bangtan is very professionally made series, i like how they timed songs with their history
i guess discipline and hard work without restricting contracts and rules that make sure the artist won't stray away is achievable when you sign people who are first of all passionate about art. and then give them opportunity to invest time and work in that art they dream to make
spoiler, like bts
i really dont think bang pd and co were choosing members for bts based on looks or marketing capabilities or character traits or even skills. of course all of those are a must to make it, but on top of those he was looking for passion, for hunger, for strive. so when bts was 7 that was what they shared, what pushed them naturally and what allowed them to be on the same page, even still 10 years later
and i also think that namjoon's values and moral compass was crucial to nurture a heathy relationship overall: relationship between members, relationship with fans, relationship with music, etc
it feels like all the stars aligned haha
No kidding. Bang PD didn't even enforce schedule. He knew they will do all that they can.
49:44 "They could always leave" J-Hope did leave, pre-debut. I don't know the whole story but Jungkook begged him to stay, RM told the team and BigHit that BTS needed J-Hope, and J-Hope said he came back because of the other members. Even RM left, but his father convinced him to return.
Thank GOD for RM's Father. ^^
I appreciate your comments about idols needing to fit a mold or standard; however, there are many young fans who are outside the beauty standard norms and want to see themselves represented, too. Amber and RM are great examples of this in practice. The entertainment companies are short sighted to only consider beauty standards
I did not mean it that way. I was praising how great it was that Amber was represented. My point was that the company made a conscious effort to choose her even when they might have had other options. No matter how hard Amber tries to become an Idol, sadly the company has all the power in deciding. who makes it and who doesn't. The fact that they made it says a lot about how companies are not all 100% evil entities that are fixed on a singular beauty standard. They do try sometimes. I would have to agree, they do it most of the time. It seemed a bit odd to me that Amber, who was almost one of the best example of mold breaking, was used to make a point on lack of diversity.
Also, I did not mean to say idols need to fit the mold. I never said that. I was talking about what the companies had to do and has to do even now. As a business practice, you sell what sells. Especially in early stages of Kpop, they were desperate and weak. No one...knew it could become what it is now today. They tried their best to survive. Hope you do not confuse my views with what a general businesses do.
I love when you talk a lot. Fans have prolly seen this series multiple times. Your insights and perspectives are fresh and so interesting. U nice. Keep going 💜
Amber is still making her own music. She has put out No More Sad Songs and ILY within the last couple of weeks. (:
Really? I should check that out!!! I was so surprised with her vocals which was not utilized well in FX. She is a thoughtful soul too. Thank you very much for your information. I am glad to hear that she is going her way. She deserves it.
I enjoy your commentary! People who are fans have watched this series literally dozens of times. Frankly, your insights are very interesting and your perspective is fresh to my ears! Thanks!
Thanks for this and for the insights into Korean culture.
33:07 "You've gotta cater to your market." True enough, my MBA training tells me; however, the real trick is knowing what the market wants that is not yet being provided. I am reminded of a comment that Neil Sedaka made at a concert I attended maybe 25 years ago. He sang several of his hit songs from 1959-1963 and then said, "and now it's 1964. What happened in 1964?" Someone in the crowd yelled, "The Beatles!" and everyone applauded. Sedaka shook his head, saying (a bit tongue-in-cheek), "No, don't applaud. They knocked me right off the charts!" Sedaka knew what the market wanted -- songs like Calendar Girl -- and then a group with a totally different sound took over. Kinda like BTS.
Time changes and often for good. At that time Korea did have some artists who were very conscious. However, many songs were banned by the government. They wanted happy drones. The children had no life to speak of other than college prep. Sadly that was the only market that made sense for pop music at the time. Like a soda pop for very thirsty kids.
Namjoon is so wise even at his young age is so awesome. Team came this far its always because of him.
I finally caught up to your reactions with The Rise of Bangtan. It’s been a while since I watched these episodes and I have been wanting to rewatch them, but never had time. Now that you’re watching them, it’s nice to rewatch with you and get your perspective as we go along. These episodes never get old for me and each time I watch, it always still feels like a new experience. Either I get reminded of what I thought I knew or I learn something new each time. I love seeing these old clips of the boys!👍🏼
I'm in wonder when I listen to RM, his maturity back then is so grounding. Amazing young man.
I do enjoy your comments, just do ....Have a great day 💜
oh wow, another one, great and thank you John
Please keep talking!!💟💜💟💜💟💜💟💜💟💜
Sumbaenim. 👋 Hello... yup my videos are getting longer and longer. Editing and rendering takes too much time so I am doing it in one take. This takes so much concentration though...🤪😵 Always great to see you.
I got what you said. Teenagers usually don't do a lot of soul-searching because they don't have a lot of past to look back on. It's not a bad thing. It makes them more receptive to new ideas and music because they aren't reminiscing about the past like most adults. That's why they feel left out of a lot of songs adults feel moved by. Pop music includes them where other genres don't with its wider appeal.
That's not to say they can't appreciate deep lyrics that relate to them, but back then there wasn't much of that. Teenagers, and people in general, have wider tastes nowadays.
Teenage girls are the most marketable group when it comes to pop. They would have studied the market without simply relying on stereotypes and it's what most of that demographic liked at that point in time. So K-pop had to start out like that though there's nothing wrong or demeaning about liking lighter music and I certainly didn't get that from you.
But I guess plenty of adults have been dismissive of their tastes for them to understandably feel defensive about it. Their tastes and experiences are still valid whatever they may be.
It's like a cycle : consumer influences market -> market influences consumer -> consumer influences market and so on. It must have taken incredible courage for BTS to take a new path (and excel) and I really respect them for it.
Really enjoy your commentary. I haven't skipped past any part of it so far. It's not too long at all.
I love your reactions as they are not rushed and more sincere and thoughtful. Interesting about the culture of Koreans being quick to response negatively. I like your advice, 😊 don't respond, as RM said prove it. Then responds with lyrics in a rap or song.
Interesting perspective and insights as always.
By the way, chapter 3 and 4, and all the chapters onwards have "Bonus content" that you can do in same reaction as the "deleted scenes". "Bonus content" shows the light-hearted funny moments that happened in the time frame the chapter covers.
Always a pleasure.💜
32:28 so it seems like people in kpop and in pop market think that teen girls don't need or want any soul searching lyrics...and i guess BTS proved them wrong. It all comes down to underplaying teen girls abilities and narrowing down them to "screaming feral fans" and in some way they were cultivated in those by kpop companies. Bts one of the few who didn't dumb down their fan base, and that's why we love them
I did not mean it that way. Please check other comments on this subject. I was describing the market of late 80's and 90's. These students had no life other than school. No dating, no makeup, no social life, no cloths you can choose, no parties.....just nothing. Not even reading books were frowned upon if it did not help college prep. They needed some sweet relief from crushing everyday life and this was what the pop companies focused on. Because they would actually buy the albums. And without these companies setting the base and maturing the market (whom bang worked with and for), I wonder if BTS would have ever had a chance to debut. So please think twice before looking down upon other companies or people who came before. They are all connected.
@@komerican-og well 80-90s kpop, or it's beginning is very different from now. I am talking 2010+ there is market for "boom ratatata" for sure, but somehow it rarely went to smth more meaningful. I bever heard meaningful kpop song before bts🤷 that's my experience and my opinion of gow i see things from my foreign perspective, i try to listen to some "idol" songs that come out, just bot to be biased, but since 2019 i have like 2 non bts songs in my playlist. But i listen to Epik high and some other non idol korean artists
@altana1306 obviously there is a new market. This is totally different from your first post. Also, you do not represent all foreign viewers. Just like I do not represent all Korean viewers. Not all people find meaning in music. Some find it in books life experience etc. A lot of people just to have fun or relax. Your preference is totally yours. But hope you do not belittle other people's music. It will not be tolerated in this channel.
Joon is an artist i respect & admire the most..like i have crazy huge amount of respect & love for this guy! No wonder we call him "a philosopher who raps" in fandom..he is the reason "BTS" even exists tbh
I love watching this with you, it’s nice to hear your opinion. I hope you’ll watch deleted scenes and bonus content for chapters 3&4 also. The bonus content it’s the fun part of this series, you’ll know their goofy side, so hope you’ll find time for those parts too. Thank you for the video!
Great commentary during video. Very much enjoyed.
For me, it's ok you talk much. Because most Army has seen this video multiple times. Your comment show that you give attention and give more information about some Korean culture and point of view. I think that's the point of reaction. Not just sit, watch, screaming, jumping and other exaggerated expression.
Agreed
thank you a lot for your reaction and commentaries
RM's really incredible!
Boy in Luv has a good rock feel and beat to it.
I think people just underestimate young people's intelligence and that's so messed up
I totally agree. Please refer to my comments on this subject on other posts. I was referring to the niche target market most companies went for during late 80's and 90's.
36:41 i also had prejudice and hearing other kpop groups trying to rap, felt like they mock hip hop. I am hip hop lover, bot avid fan, vut i listened to it quite a bit, and BTS rapline is what sold me BTS and their lyrics, they are sincere rappers and don't just rap cause they can't sing and company made them rappers
31:10 "the target market was middle school and high school girls ... What kind of ... soul-searching lyrics can you actually do?" Hmmm. This sounds an awful lot like a stereotype to me. Not entirely sure if you mean investors or K-pop management are basing decisions on this all-too-common stereotype (consider James Corden's ill-advised comments in Sept. 2021 when BTS was invited to speak at the UN again) or whether you also believe that teenage girls are not interested in "soul-searching lyrics." I expect there are teenage girls and boys (and grown women and men) who are not particularly interested in deep lyrics; I am positive (having been one) that there are also teenage girls and boys and grown women and men who are interested. I love BTS's oeuvre in large part because of the topics they cover and the lyrics -- such amazing lyric writing ...
I should have been more clear but I was talking about 80's and 90's Korean market. The students at that time had no freedom compared to west or what you see now. Absolutely, no dating, no makeup, no choice in clothing, no time for yourself other than studying. This was the norm. Obviously I do not believe that young people are all mindless or somehow girls are less thoughtful. I was just describing the status of the market at that time and what niche most companies sought after. All the bootleg music available in the streets did not help either. They needed very loyal fans who would actually buy the 'tapes'. And this happened to be young girls who had somewhat crushingly pressured life. Most weren't even allowed to read books that did not help them in the college entrance exams. The average maturity was much lower. However, all quickly changed.
@@komerican-og Thanks for clarifying! 🙏
❤
a question: do trainees who left before debut or were never chosen for debut also have to pay back the money the company spend on them during training? like debuted idols do
No. There is no such contract. That would be like enslaving the children. The companies risk all the capital, while trainees are expected to perform with diligence. Bad companies actually ask money from the trainees. Kids themselves say, that is how they identify terrible companies.
Ow aren't u watching deleted scenes and bonus content of chapter 3 first ?
Oh..My God. I forgot. Didn't I? I just came back from a hectic trip and I totally forgot. Sorry. I will do Chapter 3 deleted scenes and my first bonus video ASAP. Thousand apologies.
@@komerican-og no need to apologize. Hope your trip went well. Pls take your time.
@@komerican-og yeah it's totally fine,take ur time and rest 💜
@@amberpearce710 hi couchie! 😊😊
THE AUDACITY to even talk about my Namjoon those haters have very bad eye sights. My boy said he will prove it and HE DID. The album proof came out. And how about you haters ? what did you do in last 10 yrs ? I'm sure NOTHING
Was rm 14;years old?
I think that is when he started in the underground.
What really can females do? Well in a patriarchal society apparently not much.
Min Heejin came into SM as an entry level employee and became a full director in her 30's I believe. Now she is in Hybe having her hand in creating NEW JEANS, etc. Almost unheard of success. She is female too... isn't she? I know what you mean. It is much harder for women. However, ladies have to keep breaking the glass ceiling and prove that we are equal. Giving up would only confirm sexists views on women.