Hi Will, For you or for any one else who may be interested the documented procedure for decal film removal is shown by Eduard in the May 2021 issue of their free downloadable Info Magazine. It took me a long time to find this as it was originally mentioned in the Sept 2020 editorial where they discuss the details of film removal but they did not show the 'How To'. They stated that they would produce this "How To" tutorial for the Oct 2020 magazine but it never arrived. Eduard state the 'new' decals have been 'standard' since September 2019 but they also note (Sept 2020 Editorial) that they increased the thickness of the carrier film in Summer 2020 and also that there were some production problems in August 2020 which related to storage of decal sheets at high temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius and this impacted some decal sheets supplied. These changes and the production issue (Aug 2020) may give rise to to the presumption that there have been 3 versions of the sheets, where as in actual fact technically there may be just 2 variants, 1 - Thinner new carrier film from Sept 2019 - Mid Summer 2020 and 2 - Thicker New carrier film Summer 2020 Onwards. Eduard state the new decals have been in 'development' since 2018 so there may be the possibility that some kits were supplied with them prior to Sept 2019 when they state they became "Standard". In respect to the Eduard Decal Tutorial, the article starts on page 52 onwards of the May 2021 Info Mag. It should be noted that their process only shows the 'Lift and Peel' technique and not the technique using low odour or odorless mineral spirits. It should also be noted that in the Eduard printed process they only make reference to the use of Mr Mark Setter, though say this is not necessary! They also do not show use of Mr Mark Setter after the decal is applied nor Mr Mark Softer, but looking at the images the decals applied are very conformed to the paint surface and details including panel lines and rivet holes! something I have never been able to achieve using just water!
Thanks for doing this demo. I was surprised you didn’t roll a Q-Tip over the decals after initial application to help them seat and get rid of any air pockets. I’ve had success with that technique pretty consistently. I have a couple of Eduard kits in the queue and your techniques will definitely come in handy.
Hi Will. I have found that to remove the carrier film, apply the decal as you did. To remove the film, apply a coat of Micro Sol, leave for a minute and then lift a corner with a cocktail stick and then grab with tweezers and remove slowly. Should come off in one go. Regards Phil
Hi Will, Thanks for showing this way with mineral spirits, this was new to me. I think I will try this with the next Eduard project. I just tried to remove the carrier film on the ICM/Eduard Do-17 by using masking tape. This worked really well. Application with Mr. Mark Setter beneath and Mr. Mark Softener above. Removing bubbles by rolling a Q-Tip over the still wet decals. Waiting for 24 hours. Then lifting the carrier film at the edges and peeling off the rest with tweezers or even with the bare finger. Worked surprisingly well from the big Balkenkreuze to the tiniest stencils...
I personally think this is a step backwards for Eduard. One thing they were know was their excellent decals. I recently built their zero and it was hit and miss with the carrier film. It's needless hassle and risk on something that you can be potentially working on for months, only to go wrong at the last hurdle.
Very timely, Will. Love your thorough experimentation and sharing the results of the most successful results you obtained. BTW, was great meeting you in person at the Nats!
the one kit I've tried this with has been the latest run of Eduardo's Moraine Salunier, which seems to narrowly pre-date the commonly given period for these new decals having been a thing. I do recall the decal film seeming thicker than most, so perhaps that has been since refined. I did my normal application approach, water on the surface, positioning, wicking away excess water, and then applying Walther's Solviset to get them to conform. I did encounter a couple issues with one of the roundel decals instantly bonding to the when it contacted the wing, resulting in my needing to sand away the part I couldn't get off and use a roundel from a second kit I intend to build as Russian and could spare the decal from. I preformed the film removal with Tamiya tape, just sticking it to the decal and peeling it off again several times, and this would cause the film to sort of blister, and I could get all or almost all of it in one go. there were one or two spots where the ink went with the film, but I do hear you can get that to re bond with setting solution.
Thanks Will. I feel like we shouldn't be exposed to so much jeopardy with something as straightforward as a decal. Not convinced that this is a forward step from Eduard. I've seen another method displayed using masking tape to lift the film. Have you tried that?
I agree. For me, decaling is the most stressful part of the build. As Will was saying, this "feature" was not "by design", hence I'm a bit leery of it without some of my own testing. I was quite happy with their original decals. These new decals are going to involve more mule-time before committing to this peel technique.
Will, have you checked out 1ManArmy 1/32 stencils made in Belgium. Apparently all the tiny instructional stencils are included and painted on should allow for much more realistic weathering along with a less complicated process. I have not yet tried these stencils. might be crap, but if they work goodbye to carrier films and chemicals. You and Prof. Irving Finkel are definitely the two most interesting individual s on YT. Thank you sir!
I used mineral spirits or what we call Mineral Turpentine in Australia. I tried this a few times now and it works very well. I still would prefer to peel it off though. I noticed that you dont need to use too much mechanical removal you should let the turps do its thing to soften the carrier film.
I learned something new today to up my decal game love your videos and podcast to make me up my overall modeling game and love the lapse music made my day
I tested this, but used an approach Gary Wickham suggested which is to use Mr Mark Softer only. The idea being that Mr Mark Setter is adhering the clear film and that is giving the unhappy results. I tried using Softer on one test so far, and it worked well. Still not convinced this will give repeatable results (I need to test more) and still pissed off at Eduard for decals.
The first appearance of these decals was in 2020 on the first Mustang release (July in US on some event, September in the Czech Republic on an Eduard event and the rest of the world after that) And for me it works to get some mineral spirits and let them stay on the decal for around 5 minutes - then you need to rub the decal less and so you get lower chance of removing the ink
Interesting video, I’m not sure these are the really problematic decals, they could be but the worst ones I’ve seen have about 5mm of carrier film around them and they’re really fuzzy. I’ve struggled myself with these ‘new’ ones, before the change I felt Eduard’s own printed decals were the best around and I just wonder if that’s the ones you have here. One of the worst things about the ‘new’ ones is the awful print quality, not necessarily the adhesion/film removal. Nice upload Will 👍🏻
Will, could some of the resistance to peeling up the film be a result of the adhesive in the setting solution - did you try it without a setting solution or one without an adhesive or using a setting solution post applying the decal? sorry maybe a dumb-ass question
I use the same mineral spirit trick. But I also use tape "technique" before, the tape can peel off large chunk of film making the rubbing part faster. I also think that film react differently depending of the solution you use, I am a heavy micro sol/ markfit strong user. Experimentation is the key.
Late to the party as usual....sorry. I have 35 years to catch up. I haven't tried these yet but have a couple in stashes. Adverse comments have made me back off but this video confirms something. I have seen one version onto satin finish using water and a wet paint brush to lift the edges. It worked well but the part of the decal over panel lines was neatly removed which suggests that the decal wasn't settled fully or stuck. Another 2 both went nuclear with solutions then lifted with either low tac blu tac or masking tape. Again something you wouldn't want to do unless it's firmly welded on. So the mark setter sounds ideal. I guess if the carrier film doesn't conform and stick the paint could tear. Mineral spirits....turpentine right? I just wonder how the decal without a carrier film would react to lacquer clear coats? I expect it depends on the correct application. Thanks Will. Mark setter in the post. Tests to be done.
Hey Will just subscribed and love your vids. I would like to send you some personal notes regarding my own similar physical challenges if you would rather not I understand. Have done any Tamiya P 47,s ?. For the P51 I saved the decals from the airfix kit they are the best part of that mess of a kit let me know if you need a set I have 3. regards Thomas
Special Hobby has this kind of decals at their Bf 109 E series too. I don't like them, because you can damage the motive easily at removing the film. In the end I had to buy a conventional sheet of decals. 😕
Yeah, that result with black is cool and works great with stencils too. But try it with an Eduard decal that has a white underlayer. And is red for example. It will quickly go from red to pink (magenta) when you wash or sand off the white paint and it will look like crap. Not the case with screen printed decals.
Hi Will, I don't know if you have addressed this in a previous video but I am wondering where the spray booth behind you in this video came from? I am currently in the market for one and yours looks amazing.
@@barpfoto thanks! You happy with it? Any negatives to it? I'm reading it's overly loud. How do you find it in that regard? Have you ever done a video on it?
@@ableaquariums5480 oh, it's loud as shit. But you can either have good fume removal or you can have quiet. But not both. That's just a rule. It's about 250 CFM and that's pretty high in this market. And once I added some inexpensive stick on LED to make it bright. It became very good. I also use an air conditioning filter, rather than the one that came in it.
@@barpfoto thanks. I'm currently between a Paasche and a Pace spray booth. I need good evacuation of the air from my home so it's down to one of these two brands. I wish I could find someone who dropped $1500 to compare the two of them for me. 😂
Hi Will, I know you’ve mentioned the gloss-before-decal “nonsense” before, but I wasn’t convinced then, and I’m still not now. The reason that I think it might have some bearing is that gloss is glossy because it’s smoother than matt. Matt scatters the reflected light doe to ‘micropores’ in the surface. These same micropores could be the cause of silvering.Dunno, I could also just be blowing it outta my butt.
The problem is that is one of those surface logic things. Makes sense on the surface but doesn't stand up to deeper scrutiny. If those micropores are such a problem, then why not rivets, panel lines, and the cast texture on a tank turret? Or… Even more to the point… The rough texture of so many of these "gloss" finishes?
@@barpfoto Wild guess!!! The panel lines, rivets etc. are large enough for good decals, especially with setting solution, to conform to the surface. (This might not apply to Tamiya's pancakes.) The micropores are too small for the decal to settle in. But their density is high enough for the trapped air, or whatever, to reflect incident light. Possibly.
I think these decals suck. This is way too much work for what shouldn't be a complicated process, with less than satisfactory results. I am working on an Eduard P-51D with these decals and have had the carrier film come off okay on some decals and other ones where it won't come off or peels the decal color off.
I think Eduard new decals are a joke..Different if they was actually designed to lift the film,but they are not.So they’re not a good complete decal system and your risking your models finish..
Hi Will, For you or for any one else who may be interested the documented procedure for decal film removal is shown by Eduard in the May 2021 issue of their free downloadable Info Magazine. It took me a long time to find this as it was originally mentioned in the Sept 2020 editorial where they discuss the details of film removal but they did not show the 'How To'. They stated that they would produce this "How To" tutorial for the Oct 2020 magazine but it never arrived.
Eduard state the 'new' decals have been 'standard' since September 2019 but they also note (Sept 2020 Editorial) that they increased the thickness of the carrier film in Summer 2020 and also that there were some production problems in August 2020 which related to storage of decal sheets at high temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius and this impacted some decal sheets supplied.
These changes and the production issue (Aug 2020) may give rise to to the presumption that there have been 3 versions of the sheets, where as in actual fact technically there may be just 2 variants, 1 - Thinner new carrier film from Sept 2019 - Mid Summer 2020 and 2 - Thicker New carrier film Summer 2020 Onwards.
Eduard state the new decals have been in 'development' since 2018 so there may be the possibility that some kits were supplied with them prior to Sept 2019 when they state they became "Standard".
In respect to the Eduard Decal Tutorial, the article starts on page 52 onwards of the May 2021 Info Mag. It should be noted that their process only shows the 'Lift and Peel' technique and not the technique using low odour or odorless mineral spirits.
It should also be noted that in the Eduard printed process they only make reference to the use of Mr Mark Setter, though say this is not necessary! They also do not show use of Mr Mark Setter after the decal is applied nor Mr Mark Softer, but looking at the images the decals applied are very conformed to the paint surface and details including panel lines and rivet holes! something I have never been able to achieve using just water!
The Music in between is really outstanding, Will 🙂
Idk why but that Mariachi music got me rolling.
Thanks for doing this demo. I was surprised you didn’t roll a Q-Tip over the decals after initial application to help them seat and get rid of any air pockets. I’ve had success with that technique pretty consistently. I have a couple of Eduard kits in the queue and your techniques will definitely come in handy.
Hi Will. I have found that to remove the carrier film, apply the decal as you did. To remove the film, apply a coat of Micro Sol, leave for a minute and then lift a corner with a cocktail stick and then grab with tweezers and remove slowly. Should come off in one go.
Regards Phil
Hi Will, Thanks for showing this way with mineral spirits, this was new to me. I think I will try this with the next Eduard project. I just tried to remove the carrier film on the ICM/Eduard Do-17 by using masking tape. This worked really well. Application with Mr. Mark Setter beneath and Mr. Mark Softener above. Removing bubbles by rolling a Q-Tip over the still wet decals. Waiting for 24 hours. Then lifting the carrier film at the edges and peeling off the rest with tweezers or even with the bare finger. Worked surprisingly well from the big Balkenkreuze to the tiniest stencils...
I personally think this is a step backwards for Eduard. One thing they were know was their excellent decals. I recently built their zero and it was hit and miss with the carrier film. It's needless hassle and risk on something that you can be potentially working on for months, only to go wrong at the last hurdle.
Very timely, Will. Love your thorough experimentation and sharing the results of the most successful results you obtained. BTW, was great meeting you in person at the Nats!
the one kit I've tried this with has been the latest run of Eduardo's Moraine Salunier, which seems to narrowly pre-date the commonly given period for these new decals having been a thing. I do recall the decal film seeming thicker than most, so perhaps that has been since refined. I did my normal application approach, water on the surface, positioning, wicking away excess water, and then applying Walther's Solviset to get them to conform. I did encounter a couple issues with one of the roundel decals instantly bonding to the when it contacted the wing, resulting in my needing to sand away the part I couldn't get off and use a roundel from a second kit I intend to build as Russian and could spare the decal from.
I preformed the film removal with Tamiya tape, just sticking it to the decal and peeling it off again several times, and this would cause the film to sort of blister, and I could get all or almost all of it in one go. there were one or two spots where the ink went with the film, but I do hear you can get that to re bond with setting solution.
Thanks Will. I feel like we shouldn't be exposed to so much jeopardy with something as straightforward as a decal. Not convinced that this is a forward step from Eduard. I've seen another method displayed using masking tape to lift the film. Have you tried that?
I agree. For me, decaling is the most stressful part of the build. As Will was saying, this "feature" was not "by design", hence I'm a bit leery of it without some of my own testing. I was quite happy with their original decals. These new decals are going to involve more mule-time before committing to this peel technique.
Will, have you checked out 1ManArmy 1/32 stencils made in Belgium. Apparently all the tiny instructional stencils are included and painted on should allow for much more realistic weathering along with a less complicated process. I have not yet tried these stencils. might be crap, but if they work goodbye to carrier films and chemicals.
You and Prof. Irving Finkel are definitely the two most interesting individual s on YT. Thank you sir!
Little tip I found out , once the decal is dried I use masking tape to remove the film without the risk of scratches with toothpicks or hobby knives.
Thanks for that👍
I’ll definitely try this method.
I used mineral spirits or what we call Mineral Turpentine in Australia. I tried this a few times now and it works very well. I still would prefer to peel it off though. I noticed that you dont need to use too much mechanical removal you should let the turps do its thing to soften the carrier film.
I've often wondered what mineral spirits was. I did some looking about and came to the same conclusion that it was just good old turps.
I learned something new today to up my decal game love your videos and podcast to make me up my overall modeling game and love the lapse music made my day
I like how you think outside the box with new approaches. Decals are something I can never get enough advise about.
I tested this, but used an approach Gary Wickham suggested which is to use Mr Mark Softer only. The idea being that Mr Mark Setter is adhering the clear film and that is giving the unhappy results. I tried using Softer on one test so far, and it worked well. Still not convinced this will give repeatable results (I need to test more) and still pissed off at Eduard for decals.
will, thanks for sharing your experience in using Eduard decals
Hey Will - just a quick note: Followed your approach 1:1, worked flawlessly (I glossed before decals though 😂). Thanks!
The first appearance of these decals was in 2020 on the first Mustang release (July in US on some event, September in the Czech Republic on an Eduard event and the rest of the world after that)
And for me it works to get some mineral spirits and let them stay on the decal for around 5 minutes - then you need to rub the decal less and so you get lower chance of removing the ink
What kind of silver paint did you use on the landing gear legs and doors? Looks great!
Ahh good ol’ xylene. Ever see a 1.5MMbbl tank from a tank farm at a pumping station on fire? It’s pretty impressive.
Interesting video, I’m not sure these are the really problematic decals, they could be but the worst ones I’ve seen have about 5mm of carrier film around them and they’re really fuzzy. I’ve struggled myself with these ‘new’ ones, before the change I felt Eduard’s own printed decals were the best around and I just wonder if that’s the ones you have here. One of the worst things about the ‘new’ ones is the awful print quality, not necessarily the adhesion/film removal. Nice upload Will 👍🏻
Will, could some of the resistance to peeling up the film be a result of the adhesive in the setting solution - did you try it without a setting solution or one without an adhesive or using a setting solution post applying the decal? sorry maybe a dumb-ass question
I use the same mineral spirit trick. But I also use tape "technique" before, the tape can peel off large chunk of film making the rubbing part faster.
I also think that film react differently depending of the solution you use, I am a heavy micro sol/ markfit strong user. Experimentation is the key.
Late to the party as usual....sorry. I have 35 years to catch up.
I haven't tried these yet but have a couple in stashes. Adverse comments have made me back off but this video confirms something.
I have seen one version onto satin finish using water and a wet paint brush to lift the edges. It worked well but the part of the decal over panel lines was neatly removed which suggests that the decal wasn't settled fully or stuck.
Another 2 both went nuclear with solutions then lifted with either low tac blu tac or masking tape. Again something you wouldn't want to do unless it's firmly welded on.
So the mark setter sounds ideal. I guess if the carrier film doesn't conform and stick the paint could tear.
Mineral spirits....turpentine right?
I just wonder how the decal without a carrier film would react to lacquer clear coats? I expect it depends on the correct application.
Thanks Will. Mark setter in the post. Tests to be done.
noooooo. Mineral spirits is petroleum distillate. Turpentine is distillate of pine sap and it's quite a bit hotter. Stay away from it.
nice one Will! also great comedy music lol
Hey Will just subscribed and love your vids. I would like to send you some personal notes regarding my own similar physical challenges if you would rather not I understand. Have done any Tamiya P 47,s ?. For the P51 I saved the decals from the airfix kit they are the best part of that mess of a kit let me know if you need a set I have 3. regards Thomas
Special Hobby has this kind of decals at their Bf 109 E series too. I don't like them, because you can damage the motive easily at removing the film. In the end I had to buy a conventional sheet of decals. 😕
Interesting Vid, i have seen someone use bluetac to lift the film. Have you tried that method
Yeah, that result with black is cool and works great with stencils too. But try it with an Eduard decal that has a white underlayer. And is red for example. It will quickly go from red to pink (magenta) when you wash or sand off the white paint and it will look like crap. Not the case with screen printed decals.
I have this eduard kit ... any one experimented with soaking a decal in mineral spirit initially instead of water ? Might be worth a go just to see .
Forget about removing the film! Just spay any varnish!! Same result in the end!!
Hi Will, I don't know if you have addressed this in a previous video but I am wondering where the spray booth behind you in this video came from? I am currently in the market for one and yours looks amazing.
paasche
@@barpfoto thanks! You happy with it? Any negatives to it? I'm reading it's overly loud. How do you find it in that regard? Have you ever done a video on it?
@@ableaquariums5480 oh, it's loud as shit. But you can either have good fume removal or you can have quiet. But not both. That's just a rule. It's about 250 CFM and that's pretty high in this market. And once I added some inexpensive stick on LED to make it bright. It became very good. I also use an air conditioning filter, rather than the one that came in it.
@@barpfoto thanks. I'm currently between a Paasche and a Pace spray booth. I need good evacuation of the air from my home so it's down to one of these two brands. I wish I could find someone who dropped $1500 to compare the two of them for me. 😂
Hi Will, I know you’ve mentioned the gloss-before-decal “nonsense” before, but I wasn’t convinced then, and I’m still not now. The reason that I think it might have some bearing is that gloss is glossy because it’s smoother than matt. Matt scatters the reflected light doe to ‘micropores’ in the surface. These same micropores could be the cause of silvering.Dunno, I could also just be blowing it outta my butt.
The problem is that is one of those surface logic things. Makes sense on the surface but doesn't stand up to deeper scrutiny. If those micropores are such a problem, then why not rivets, panel lines, and the cast texture on a tank turret? Or… Even more to the point… The rough texture of so many of these "gloss" finishes?
@@barpfoto Wild guess!!!
The panel lines, rivets etc. are large enough for good decals, especially with setting solution, to conform to the surface. (This might not apply to Tamiya's pancakes.)
The micropores are too small for the decal to settle in. But their density is high enough for the trapped air, or whatever, to reflect incident light.
Possibly.
@@lostsock9852 or a simpler explanation that doesn't have any logical flaws is that the adhesive simply fails.
Is mineral spirts in USA -White spirit in uk??
yep
Yes
They say flies are attracted to long finger hairs :-)
I think these decals suck. This is way too much work for what shouldn't be a complicated process, with less than satisfactory results. I am working on an Eduard P-51D with these decals and have had the carrier film come off okay on some decals and other ones where it won't come off or peels the decal color off.
I think Eduard new decals are a joke..Different if they was actually designed to lift the film,but they are not.So they’re not a good complete decal system and your risking your models finish..