OVERPOWER the SUN with FLASH // What Godox Flash do you need?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2019
- In this video we are discussing how to overpower the sun with flash. Overpower the sun is a phrase that poorly describes balancing a flash with bright, sunny conditions outside. It's hard to give a single answer for what flash will do it, as it depends on 3 actions. What modifier you use, how far away you use it, and whether or not you use high speed sync.
Different modifiers bounce and throw light in different ways. So, some light modifiers are much more efficient than others, which means they will have more light intensity at the same power. Typically, smaller modifiers have harder, more intense light than larger modifiers, and are more efficient, but that surprisingly wasn't 100% true in this video.
Yes, the flashes were all at full (1/1) power
My entire kit of gear : kit.co/robhallphoto Lights Used
Godox V860II (Flashpoint Zoom Li-on): bit.ly/zoomr2ttl
Godox AD200 (Flashpoint Evolv 200): bit.ly/evolvRH
Godox AD400 Pro (Flashpoint Xplor 400 Pro): bit.ly/RH400Pro
Godox AD600 Pro (Flashpoint Xplor 600 Pro): bit.ly/RHX600P
Modifiers Used
25" Glow EZ-Lock Beauty Dish Softbox: adorama.rfvk.net/OLAYN
43" Glow Grand Para Box Pro: adorama.rfvk.net/WQ3En
Flash Trigger: bit.ly/R2ProIIS
C-stand: adorama.rfvk.net/70e2r
A7R III: bit.ly/SA73RH
85mm 1.4 GM: bit.ly/RH8514GM
Follow me on Instagram: bit.ly/2sj7Lsq
In this video we are finding out what flash you will need to overpower the sun. Overpower the sun is a phrase that poorly describes balancing a flash with bright, sunny conditions outside. It's hard to give a single answer for what flash will do it, as it depends on 3 actions. What modifier you use, how far away you use it, and whether or not you use high speed sync.
Different modifiers bounce and throw light in different ways. So, some light modifiers are much more efficient than others, which means they will have more light intensity at the same power. Typically, smaller modifiers have harder, more intense light than larger modifiers, and are more efficient, but that surprisingly wasn't 100% true in this video.
Next, is HSS vs SS. High speed sync is a less efficient way to light a subject, and will always require a higher power setting when everything else is equal. So if you stick with standard sync you'll be able to use smaller, less powerful strobes or greater distances.
The goal here was to find the distance that a light at full power could properly expose a subject with a given modifier, in both HSS and standard sync.
Here's the data:
AD600 Pro Standard Sync
Reflector: 9' 6" (290 cm)
32" Shoot through Umbrella: 7' 6" (229 cm)
25" Glow EZ-Lock Beauty Dish Softbox: 8' 4" (254 cm)
43" Grand Para Box Pro: 10' (305 cm)
AD600 Pro HSS
Reflector: 6' 2" (188 cm)
Umbrella: 5' (152 cm)
25" Softbox: 6' (183 cm)
43" Softbox: 7' (213 cm)
AD400 Pro Standard Sync
Reflector: 8' 4" (254 cm)
Umbrella: 6' 10" (208 cm)
25" Softbox: 7' 6" (229 cm)
43" Softbox: 9' 0" (274 cm)
AD400 Pro HSS
Reflector: 5' 10" (147 cm)
Umbrella: 4' 6" (137 cm)
25" Softbox: 4' 9" (145 cm)
43 Softbox: 6' 4" (193 cm)
AD200 Standard Sync
Fresnel Head: 12' 7" (384 cm)
Umbrella (Fresnel): 7' (213 cm)
25" Softbox (Barebulb): 5' (152 cm)
43 Softbox (Barebulb): 6' (183 cm)
AD200 HSS
Fresnel Head: 7' (213 cm)
Umbrella ( Fresnel): 3' 8" (112 cm)
25" Softbox: 2' 6" (76 cm)
43" Softbox: 2' 9" (84 cm)
V860ii Standard Sync
24mm Bare: 8' (244 cm)
Umbrella: 5' 3" (160 cm)
25" Softbox: 5' 5" (165 cm)
43" Softbox: 6' 2" (188 cm)
V860ii HSS
24mm Bare: 3' 3" (99 cm)
Umbrella: 2' 5" (74 cm)
25" Softbox: 2' 6" (76 cm)
43" Softbox: 2' 11'" (89 cm)
Link to infographic: imgur.com/gallery/4zPUmrD
I'm already seeing comments on the clouds throughout, so let me clear this up. Regardless of how the ambient environment changes, the camera settings stayed the same throughout. The camera settings are modeled after the sunny 16 rule as they are safe settings to prevent any highlights from clipping while shooting in direct sunlight. Even in HSS, our settings are equivalent to the Sunny 16 rule. This is why when clouds move in, the background gets darker in the sample images but the flash is still appropriately balanced.
Now, if for some reason you have a different experience with the sun, you can still use this video to determine the distances you would be capable of.
Let's say you go out on a Sunny day and determine you need ISO 100 1/250s F14 to get the background as dark as you want it. That is 1 stop darker than the settings we used. Which means the flash has to be moved in to make it 1 stop brighter to balance. That means your light would have to be 70% of the distance I shared in this video. 50% for 2 stops, and so on. I know most photographers aren't into the math behind it, but both light and photography are easily defined mathematically and if you learn it, you can find answers to all the questions you have.
Sunny 16 rule... analog rules, for digital fools!!!
@@photojones1 because, as we all know, since the introduction of digital photography the Sun has changed its position in the Sol system and Sunny16 is not valid anymore.
@Robhallphoto So, just to clarify. All the shots were at ƒ/16 except the HSS ones that were ƒ/1.8 ? Is this correct ?
You are so well spoken and keep my interest. I cannot stand videos with overpowering music and people that hem and haw. You don't waste time, your points of interest are clearly outlined and you stay focused. Great job! Thank you! I am brand new to OCF, so I truly appreciate your informative videos. Thank you!
THIS IS THE EXACT DATA I WAS LOOKING FOR! I was trying to decide on whether I would go for the ad200pro or ad400pro and had watched various other youtube videos and I was having trouble keeping track of how each different photographer got certain results because it all depended on the various factors that are clearly detailed here. The distance, standard speed, hss, type of modifier ...etc. Thanks for doing such a diligent test and producing the handy chart ! Finding this video was a Godsend.
So happy to hear this was a great resource for you Claudia!
Interesting results Rob, really appreciate the time you took to conduct such a thorough test 😊
Happy to do it, if I never have to type it again lol
Man, hands down one of the most informative videos I’ve seen on flash capabilities. Super helpful as I’m in the market for a new light and have been going back and forth between the ad400 and ad600. Thanks!!
Awesome to hear that, hope you got your answer!
Just wondering, which light did ya get?
OhMyGoodness... A-G-A-I-N you come out with EXACTLY the video I wanted/needed EXACTLY when I needed it, with the equipment I wanted you to test!! THANKS!!!!
Really an excellent examples of how to work with the lighting and the different modifiers. Thanks for the video Robert Hall
Thank you!
Woaaaahhhhh That's a lot of numbers to digest, thanks for typing it up for us, can digest at my leisure...
One of the most useful videos I've seen in a long time. Thank you for making it, it answered many of my questions.
This was such an important video. Thank you so much
Count on you to dish out practical videos Rob. Great going.. keep them coming.. loving this series :). Thank you.
Yes !! Finally found someone to explain the differences to me lol. Really appreciate it. Just came across your channel keep up the great work.
Glad I could help, thank you!
Great presentation, I used an ad200 with small soft box yesterday and an ad600 with a large very deep soft box both double diffused with amazing results in the late afternoon never going anywhere full power
Really, really useful.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us, Robert.
When I first saw the video title I thought “Oh god here we go again.”
I was quite pleased to hear you hate the phrase too!
This has been super useful. I was thinking of just buying two speedlights, put both in my Westcott umbrella softbox (28 in, I believe), and call it good. Now this shows me that it could work, but I should also consider other options. Thank you for the vid, and trust me, I hate the phrase too hehe.
Glad you found it useful Pat!
THANK YOU!!!!! I have been saying this FOREVER!!! I wanted to do a video about this same thing because there is no strobe out there that can over power the sun! You beat me to it Rob, but thank you for posting this! They need to stop feeding people the wrong information.
Kerwan Celestine totally agree, man 🔥
FJH Photography yea bro. Still will do mines, because there are other aspects that affects that situation as well. 🙂
Can't wait to see what you add to the discussion bro
Some good info here, some results were more dramatic than I expected. Great video and easy to follow as usual, thank you.
1 min into this and I can already tell this is gonna be a great video! Thanks for this, I’m currently stuck deciding what I want to purchase!
Excellent video and thank you so much for including the infographic, it's Gold!
You're very welcome!
that umbrella mounting at 3:21 was legit!
tyty, a new method i've been perfecting.
Great content. I recently picked up a AD600 pro to compliment my 400 and 200s. Nice to have a general guide to distances.
I hope this can help first time buyers, cause those are the ones typically asking the question after being inspired by other photos.
@@robhallphoto Don't forget the infographic, or make a metric version of it :D
Some pretty interesting results.
Thank you chaps for making the video
Excellent demonstration. I love the way you approached it. I just might have to get that large softbox!
Good job!
The only thing I really miss in this test, is how a (big) deep silver umbrella would fare.
It should both help focus the light on the subject and the light is not reduced by a front diffusing panel.
From what I have seen, they should help getting the most out of your light on location, if you want a bigger light-source with minimal loss of power/light.
I normally refrain from softboxes and shoot-trough umbrellas on location in strong sun, because they do tend to take away a lot of light on the gear I own.
Thank you, very precise information to such generic and wide topic. Really great overview of what you can expect on normal not super sunny day
Tony & Chelsea Northrup, Fstoppers, & a few others need to listen at 1:54 . I use HSS at every shoot and know it isn't the best for "overpowering" the sun.
The first two you mentioned aren't even providing good content and the first one just reads a PowerPoint
My hss works when manual says NO!...
Use as trigger on optical slave.
Do they say HSS is a better method too? People get so confused by the thought that you're using shutter speed to kill ambient that they think their flash is no longer being affected. It is better in that it gives you control of your aperture back, so I understand that thought, it's just not the most efficient.
Without being salty... All of the 3 after mentioned people aren't known for their verification/investigation/test efforts and they are known for all the mishaps they have in their videos/articles becuase they don't do any verification/investigation/test.
@@vonpotatostein who's the 3rd?
Thank you so much for using my flash, I bought a 47 inch/120cm when a 90cm would have done the job, and give me more light output, and be more portable for use case, this is neat to know I am even able to use it outside, and provided it's always cloudy here, it works in my favour for once
As a potential but currently undecided AD200 or AD400 Godox purchaser, thank you for your service.
Great guys! keep up the good work ! .... but in my AD200 I always end up using the included bulb and not the flash mount, because the bulb is much more powerful...
Thanks for sharing this information!!!
Imagine putting in all that effort to make such an informative video like this...then someone dislikes it... Why?🤷🏾♂️
falented2 lots of jealous people out there. I wanted to make a video similar to this one and still plan to, but I'm happy Rob made this video sooner. It's so helpful and I support that. Rob works hard to create content.
My guess is some idiots accidentally click the wrong icon, or there was literally one detail that contradicted something they knew or expected. Some people thumb down when they see a product they dont like as well, even if they like the video. Sorta like being at a sportsgame and booing the other side, you're not really booing the host of the game.
@@Firebrand911you dont know nothing about light...and second your mom is an idiot.
@@goranb8822 by trashing people like you are you are really trashing yourself!!!!!!
Because they dont have a flash
Robert you are so helpful as I am learning more about HSS and over powering the sun and Thanks fir all the Godoy review I have the 400 pro and was thinking of getting the 600 also
Thank you so much Rob, helpful and informative tutorial! Good luck!
The only thing is it would be nice (and I guess I will have to try it) to see the speedlight zoomed to 200mm for the fresnel shot since zooming it tightens the pattern and so intensifies the light where it is landing. They might have been able to get the speedlight as far or farther than the AD200 bare at that point. And at those distances you would still light the subject fully.
Amazing video, as close as you can get to have controls outdoors, and love that you tried both the fresnel and bare bulb on the AD200
What great information! Thanks Robert. This has helped greatly with my decision to buy an AD400 Pro. (Placed today with Adorama)
Cool video. I regularly encounter people online that tell me a speedlite cannot be used to fill sunlight. It’s awkward because I know I’ve done it before.
THANKS! how perfect, I have the AD400 and a Glow softbox, can't wait to try this out along with dialing back the sun's exposure 1-2 stops
I've always used the term "overpower the sun" to mean that the strobe can put more light on the subject than the sun does. And I've always explained that pretty much any flash can overpower the sun in the right conditions. That the discussion is really about whether or not the flash can overpower from a modifier at a useful distance.
I think that whole part of the video was just filler to get it over the 10 min mark for more yt ads lol
The phrase "overpower the sun" is a bit misleading and I don't know why people use it. Pretty much everyone will agree that the sun is the brightest light source available, it's just small and harsh from the perspective of the surface of the earth. And really, you don't want to "overpower" things in some cases, and I think a better phrase is "balance the light" and I see many people starting to use this phrase instead of "overpower the sun". In a number of cases, you may want your subject brighter than the background (rather than just evenly light with the background) but with the right settings (ie. HSS) you can accomplish this with many flashes that are of decent quality and support HSS because you can use your SS to control the ambient light and thus tone down the background (ie. the sun) and incraese the power on your flash or get in closer. So in the right condition as you said, it' possible to overpower the sun in the right conditions and with the right configuration (flash/lighting setup and camera settings) regardless of if the flash is viewed as "being able to overpower the sun".
Great comparisons. I’m gonna have to revisit using fresnel heads. Another modifer I’d be interested to see is a beauty dish. I work a lot on the coast, trying to find the best option that isn’t going to get blown over, lol.
This video information was actually refreshing
Actual good test!
This is just beautiful! Thanks so much
Thank you for the video. It really helped to clear the confusion between flash powers.
Hahahah!!! LOVED the speed-lite flip, I gotta learn that - awesome work bro, love your work!
Glad you enjoyed that, it's basically an involuntary habit at this point. It's gonna get me in trouble one day. It's most satisfying with a long lens like the 135 or 70-200 lmao.
Bruh, 15 years of getting confused as heck, maybe even afraid of the sunny 16 rule (probably because it was just charts) and you explained it in a manner that makes a lot of sense. Now I know how one gets to all the other figures.
Excellent informative video. Thankyou for doing it. Can I just ask 1 question? Were all the flashes firing at full power to achieve these results?
Yes
Great information!! Which softbox are you using at the very end of the video? The one you are putting onto the AD400? Thx!
Thanks for doing this video. definitely gave me a better understanding of what in going to need to do when using my strobes out in the sun. would love to see it added to with more softboxes and strobes. Wondering how the Magbox would do compare to the others and also wonder how the AD200 using the dual head compares to the AD400.
I've got the latter portion of this comment well covered here: czcams.com/video/t51IsHqwa-8/video.html
The AD-B2 is .3 stop more powerful than an AD400 Pro.
As for more softboxes, maybe I'll do a single light power comparison on various modifiers in the future.
Thanks man. Just bought the AD400 thanks to this advice.
Glad it helped!
Thank you! Every question as they came up in my mind you answered.
Liked, subbed, ripped, saved, archived. It is all here in one video.
This was SUPER helpful. Thank you!!!
Good work on the flash videos.
Thank you!
incredibly detailed and helpful, thank you so much!
Great video! I work in a very small space 10x14 low ceiling do you think a pair of AD400’s are too much for this space?
Hi Rob -- do you think the AD200 Pro would have done better in the softboxes if you'd used the fresnel head instead of the bare bulb head?
Always enjoy your videos. Thank you.
Could you maybe compare the Orlit Rovelight to the Flashpoint Rapid I'm conflicted between the two
The AC Rovelight? I've kind of abandoned coverage of the Orlit series, while they are capable units they just aren't anywhere near the same system as FP R2. But given that they can be had much cheaper these days because they don't sell as well, I think its a good buy.
Thank you, thank you. Exactly what I what I was looking for.
Brilliant video, great information! Thanks
Thanks - it's always nice to have some figures to lean against 👍 Cheers mate
great video!!
Did I miss it, are all of the flash units at 1/1 or it's equivalent? BTW WOW that was a lot of great info and most importantly a tremendous amount of work. Thanks
Amazing work. Question, it makes sense that the 400/600 don’t do well with the umbrella since so much of their light is lost from the sides due to the bare bulb. It w puke be very interesting to see the effect of using a reflector on the 300/400/600 with an umbrella. I ask because umbrellas are portable, and a reflector like the AD 14 are pretty small as well.
No one is covering this issue because using the reflectors with Godox ad400pro/ad300pro with umbrellas is extremely problematic.
Thank you for this video. Very useful comparison.
Hi Robert! Thanks for this very informative video. I just recently bought my 2 godox ad200. But haven't used it for outdoor shoots. Maybe this weekend. :) just wanna ask if among the all the strobes you used in this video, were they fired at the same flash power? For example, all fired at 1/1 power from farthest to closest? Thanks
All flashes were at 1/1 for all tests
@@robhallphoto Thanks, Robert!
The most useful video..keep it up man 👍👍
Great video sir, thank you!
Excellent! Very useful and like your presentation speed. 👍
My XPLOR400 arrives tomorrow. I hope follow your finding over the weekend. Thanks for the coupon code
You're very welcome, enjoy it!
GREAT VIDEO and answered all my questions BUT I still don't know which one to upgrade to first. lol. I've gotten away with using the basic speedlight and for sure want to at least get the AD200. The 600 would be nice not sure how versatile it would be in a small space... DECISIONS DECISIONS...
Thank You this is really useful. AD600pro has 74% efficiency of AD400pro. AD600pro-0,13inch/W AD400pro-0,18inch/W in HSS with 43" para softbox
That really useful tutorial. Thanks bro
How would the AD400 manage in a native Godox mount and softbox?
I always have the issue of wind blowing down my Light-stand with Flash and Umbrella. 5:46 allows the wind to blow away the umbrella since it is more disposable so all I had to do is not tightly attach the umbrella to my Light-stand. Mind Blown!
This video is amazing! Something that I didn't notice being specifically mentioned but I'm hopeless with lighting and want to make sure I understand right - was each flash set to 1/1 manual power?
Yes
@@robhallphoto Thank you!
interesting and instructive. Just on thing: To get a true relation between different options, distances should not be measured from the flash tube, but from the actual light source, which is the last diffusor/emitter in the light path. that way power differences between eg 400pro and 600 pro are more realistic. The 43" glow has a considerable depth. the light emitter is the front diffuser.
That is correct, and in fact that makes this test not fully valid, unfortunately.
more practical way to measure the light i guess. thank you so much for your afford
I am having difficulties going into high speed sync with my Sony a7riii, used both godox Xpros & X1T triggers and the camera set in manual refuses to go past shutter speed of 1/250sec. I put the either trigger on my Sony a7r and no problem, I can dial any shutter speed values. Has to be a menu setup, help?
Moho Mami try upgrading the firmware on both flash and flash trigger. This fox the issue I had with high speed sync not working on Olympus Camera. Check the Godox website for firmware updates
Dude, awesome 👏
Is very usefull!
Thank you very much. Great job
Your video thumbnail is *SO* awesome!
haha thank you!
Thank you!
I am about to watch the video, and I'm sure it is informative. I just want to say I agree with you about the stupid phrase "overpower the sun" I don't know where it came from but I wish we could ban its use.
I think the biggest variable while trying to answer this question is the time of day you shoot. Overpowering the sun at noon is different than at golden hour.
Also to me, most people are generally trying to do HSS with a shallow DOF using a medium to large soft box. All of that to get to a ambient that is one stop under is going to require a lot of watts. So if you don't have something like a ad600 or more powerful forget it.
That's exactly why seeing the difference between HSS and SS is so important. Many people might opt for ND filters if they know they can stay in standard sync with an AD200, instead of lugging around an AD600. Agree on the time of day, which is why we used Sunny 16 rule to represent the brightest situation. Anything less, gets you more versatility with your lights.
Brilliant video
Good video Robert!
Would be possible to include measures in centimeters so that it can be understood more easily in the rest of the world?
Thank you!
Good call! I'll update the description
that's a great help..thank you
So nd filter and speedlight on standart speed will give possibility to shoot comfort in bright sun with umbrella or 36 inch octa with 1 layer diffusion?
Keydrin, I simply shorted the two pads on my Flashpoint FPLFX600PTB battery and it began to charge. I didn't have to "jump-start" the batter cells, this time, lol. I guess that Flashpoint XPLOR 600 Pro is a rebrand of the Godox equivalent.
Great video with valuable information. Can you please do a video about the Godox AD-S2 and AD-S17 diffusers? I would like to see how they compare to MagMod. Thanks.
I wouldn't even put those two modifiers in the same breath as Magmod. Completely different systems. The S2 is a very basic reflector that would be best used with an added umbrella or bare if you want really hard light (similar to the reflector here). The AD-S17 is for throwing light everywhere. Neither are going to result in soft light (although, neither is magmod). The AD-S17 would be similar to the Magmod sphere. Theres not too much to tear into regarding quality of light though, as both are designed more for throwing light in a wide pattern for lots of bounce. Magmod represents far more options for gelling and shaping hard light.
Thanks a lot for letting me know. I can't afford magmod so I guess I will continue to use big soft boxes for a while. Thanks again.
great review
great video, thanks for the info graphic
I think that when people use the term “overpowering the Sun” that it is in reference to the light that the Sun casts and not the Sun itself. Let’s face it, when talking about flash power you don’t take a photo of your flash.
"when talking about flash power you don’t take a photo of your flash."
Good point. Still I sometimes take a photo with a flash beam in the frame :P
Excelent video! Next time it would me nice if you could also inform the distances on the metric system, y'know, that one measurement system the entire world outside the USA uses.
Been converted in the description all along!
@@robhallphoto I was about to write the same, didn’t get an idea to check the description.
Very helpful video, thanks a lot! But adding metric system directly to the video should be good idea. Cheers!
Robert, in your STC Optics video, you used an AD600 Pro in HSS with a 48" softbox and the box was so close to the model (3 ft. away maybe). Here, you've mentioned that in HSS the same setup can be done 6-7 ft. away from the model. Why is there so much difference in the distance in the shots from the two shoots? Is it the lens? Also, do you still recommend the clip ND filter over going for HSS? Also, do you recommend the 6-stop clip nd filter or higher? Thanks!
2 things.
Difference in the softbox quality. As I said in this video, the output of this box is shockingly high, which means it's interior is simply more reflective than the softbox I was using in Texas (glow EZ lock). Typically a larger softbox would require a shorter distance than an equivalent design smaller one, since the light source is travelling to a bigger area. But this shows how much the modifier materials can impact the results.
Also, in this video I did Sunny 16 settings, which "properly" exposes a bright day, whereas in Texas I was underexposing the background, requiring the light to be closer.
I still have the same views about the filter and HSS that I expressed in that video, and haven't used HSS since. 6 stops is plenty as it takes ISO 100 1/200 F/11 down to ISO 100 1/200 F/1.4. More than that is excessive and will only require you to increase ISO.
Thank you Robert. My initial thought was the softbox but even after watching this video I couldn't help second guess that the softbox could make that much difference. But, it makes sense with the combination of you underexposing the background in the clip nd filter video as opposed to what you were doing in this video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm looking into getting the clip filter and a budget monolight. So, I think your answer has helped with that.
how do you feel about that 43" glow vs the similar one made by Cheetah?
Nice work
Very interested in the Grand Glow. It is very expensive relative to the modifiers I traditionally use (nearly all from Cheetahstand, most under $200) but it might be worth it. Time to save.
This is informative.
I do suggest that its important to recognize that the large soft box modifiers, when used with a fresnel head (speedlite) set to 24mm are essentially the same as the shoot through umbrella.
Little, if any of the light is being deflected by the sides of the modifier.
This characteristic is confirmed by the similarity in the distances between the umbrella and the soft boxes in the test results.z
I continue to be amused by the insistence of photographers to say that TTL is X number of EV less efficient light. The reality is that it's the same light spread over time to permit the shutter slit to traverse the sensor. TTL is a well designed way to efficiently use a short duration light source to simulate continuous light. Two different tools for two different situations.
In regards to the second part (in which I think you mean HSS, not TTL), it is less efficient. Even if it's the same "total light" created by the strobe, the peak brightness of the light at any given moment is simply less than if it were a standard flash pulse. Duration of the light by using multiple pulses can't be realized by the sensor because of the action of the shutter curtains. In the only sense of it working, it's less efficient.