Wild Men, Vikings and Toxic Masculinity!
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2022
- This video is sponsored! I know! It's a tie-in for a film! How cool is that?
Anyway, the movie is "Wild Men", a Danish independent film about mental health, masculinity, and struggling with modern life and the 9-5 of office work. And it has Sofie Gråbøl in it. So obviously it's great.
So let's discuss masculinity, both toxic and otherwise, in the Viking age, and what the average Norse person might have aimed for to be a "good man" or a "real man" or even an "honourable man". We'll talk berserkers, violence, sagas, and I'll get paid by a cool film production company! Win win!
Enjoy! And remember: you're great just as you are.
Wild Men is in UK and Ireland cinemas from 6 May. Tickets available from wildmen.co.uk
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It is something that has been on my mind, as a Ukrainian person. There, here is a war. Being a ~warrior~ is glorified in the ultra-masculine circles, but the truth of it is that aggression and a hardened spirit are a matter of necessity, and someone who is in that state constantly is not adjusted to living in peace. We have to defend ourselves now, but, if we want to have a future, we must give our attention to poetry, craftsmanship, beautiful clothing, nature, good food, sciences, comfortable life for the average person, treating others with dignity, customs that live and adjust to life while preserving the link to past generations. This is the goal. Hardship will be there whether you like it or not, giving it more room than it absolutely has to take is just not good for the brain.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. I really, really hope you and yours are safe and have everything you need to be ok.
Making life better for the future should be the goal of all. Good luck, Red. I hope you stay safe, and reach that ideal you're striving for.
As long as there is war, training for war is a necessity but it does us all good to balance such things with beautiful and peaceful pursuits.
You are so right. God bless and keep you and yours.
That is such a good & well-thought-out point. Wishing you all well in Ukraine- stay safe, take care, & I so hope for things to get better. Best wishes from Australia.
In Norway we call a man that is all those things - honest, good and all you mentioned- Hel ved. ( whole wood)
And you can't be Hel ved by being toxic.
Then and now
That's a great expression!
I wonder if that's related to the Swedish term "helylle" (whole-wool)? I don't know exactly how to define it, but honest, kind and uncomplicated, maybe.
Thinking about being a 'good man' vs 'being a good person' within my own culture, Jewish.
I've noticed two very different types of men who are lauded as having lived good lives.
Example of the first, Rebbe Chaim Kanievsky of blessed memory. He was a leader in the Litvak community who was respected across the Haredi and Orthodox traditions (who spend a lot of their energies in petty infighting). He spent his life in the study of Torah and Talmud, avoiding offers of high positions. He was regarded as having not only deep and broad knowledge but also understanding of Jewish Law.
An example of the second type was Ed Mirvish from Toronto. After a string of failed small businesses, he found his niche in creating the first discount 'bargain basement' store which he called Honest Eds. He died a very wealthy man.... But that's not what his legacy was.
He was an astoundingly generous man. He bought a block of houses around his store and rented them to artists. He invested a lot of money into the Toronto theatre scene (after his death Broadway in New had a moment of silence in honour of him.) He donated significant amounts of time and money to feeding the poor, including giving out 10,000 turkeys every Christmas. (People would line up for hours and he would personally hand out the turkeys.)
The aspects that tied the two men together - one a wealthy businessman and the other an impoverished Talmud scholar - was that both were reknowned for the kindness. They were patient with other people. They were generous with their time and resources. They supported culture and the people who produced culture without being patronizing. They were self-deprecating, possibly even humble. They tried to make the world a better place for them having been there.
Pretty different from the 'ideal' of the lone wolf.
Thank you for the examples, and I agree with you, very much.
So much respect, and also mega props to you for keeping Honest Ed's alive in our memories
Never underestimate the value of being able to get clean hot water out of the tap almost instantly. It's way more important to me than my cell phone.
Great video Jimmy
😀
I used to do long camping trips and honestly as soon as I got back the first thing I would do was run nice hot water and wash my hands with lots of soap.
Agreed!
And a flushing toilet.
I love running hot water but I'm still more greatful for modern medicine that has saved my life counless times and has made it possible for me to actually enjoy life too!
As someone who just got done with the Faire season, "Amen" from the heathen choir.
"Berserkers sucked"
I think we still have them. They're the kind of men who'll stamp all over you outside a pub because "you're looking at my bird" or some equally trivial excuse for kicking the shit out of someone.
@@darthplagueis13 You've heard of pigeon fanciers
Beserkers were more than that. As that recent movie pointed out, they were a Cult of Othin. They might not have been for everyone, but they were a recognised part of pre Christian Norse society and probably explained (along with overpopulation) why the Vikings pillaged so much of Europe
You dont build a society and a civilization with people like that and war must be the last goal of everything. War its a disgrace and the people who suffer the most are the civilians not the soldiers. War and the army are for psychopaths.
@@arielgoldfarb4118 Machiavelli talked about this. The tldr is soldiers are unfortunately necessary but the skills and mentality required to be one full time makes them unsuitable for living with civilians.
@@DrJReefer Certainly truth to it as many military veterans often have trouble reacclimating to civilian life.
I've heard how JRR Tolkien made characters like Aragorn and Faramir excellent examples of positive masculinity. Yes they're warriors who can kill and fight and be awesome and badass, but they also sang, wrote poetry, appreciated art, cried, and so forth.
Also I guess Our Flag Means Death is also an exploration of different kinds of masculinity, like being a man isn't just being the epic badass Blackbeard society expects, but also the soft, bashful, vulnerable and a little gay sides of masculinity.
also faramir and eowen ultimately decide to give up the warrior life for a home life with family
I am grateful, constantly, that you exist in the world. It helps to see good men discuss these things and help each other to have these discussions about masculinity.
You are truly lovely human. Plus knowledgeable and filled with wonder at those things you know and even things you don’t.
I look forward to listening and watching you
How kind of you, Jessica! Thank you so much for saying something so sweet!
Seconded
I remember having a bit of the same thoughts when I started doing reenactment. I had this period when I thought "well, I really like sleeping in tents, chopping wood and laughing with friends around a campfire ! Why can't we go back to the Viking Age ?"
But, even if I do really yearn for a simpler lifestyle, I also realised it wasn't that I was rejecting modernity. More accurately, I just really loved and embraced the feeling of genuine, simple community where everyone took care of one another. I feel like a lot of people (myself included at the time) conflate thoses two.
As a Dane who have already seen this film as part of my work, it really resonated with me, and I love the reflections you made with regards to masculinity and what it means to be a "real man" or "manly". To me, it has always been about being strong, but not only in a vain physical sense (tho that can also at times be beneficial of course). It has always been about being capable, of being the guy who protects people who are weaker, who builds homes and crafts objects, who loves family, who works the job that is needed of him, who makes people laugh even when he is not in the mood for laughing, and most important maybe, a man shouldn't be afraid to admit that he needs help too. Being able to shoulder whatever burden is put on you, whatever role you may play in society. It will sometimes break you and that's okay, you're not a stone guardian who stands in solitude, you are a person with emotions and you need someone to protect, love, help and make you laugh too.
Essentially, being a good man is the same as being a good woman. It is simply being a good person.
Well said sir!👏👏
What's hilarious is, a lot of these guys that go running around at Faires and even IRL think the pinnacle of Viking/Norse masculinity was being that terrifying berserkir who ran his household and world with an iron fist, when nothing seems further from the truth. Reading the Havamal, reading the sagas from the medieval era and actually understanding their context reflects exactly what you're talking about.
I mean, the heroes broke down in tears all the time out of sheer emotion, but not from weakness, but because they gave a damn. Western (I know the US, surely) masculinity could definitely take a page from that.
Capable:
An often underrated trait to look for in a partner. Far more important than looks or wealth.
This is the ideal. I thought this too idealistic, until I began to compare it to the men I admire. There are many such men and I will make it my business to be more appreciative of those persons.
Well, this American woman totally agrees with your idea of a good person. I haven't seen the film yet, but I'll keep an eye out for it
Love this. Just a heads up, neolithic clothes were not unfinished skins draped over the body either. They sewed them, had intricate beaded things etc too. Woven fabrics made from bast fibre from oak trees was found in Çatalhöyük in Turkey some 8000-9000 years ago.
Oh ofc, you're spot on, but it's just more similar in terms of his kit and the skins we have found in northerly climes than it is to Early Med stuff
I’m guessing that the costume isn’t even meant to represent either age to begin with, but only to represent _Martin’s idea of_ the Viking Age.
The earliest evidence we have of _some_ form of textile actually comes from imprints in ceramic from Dolní Věstonice, Czechia, from c. 27 000 - 20 000 years ago (just a quick look at the Wiki article about the site, the dating may actually be more precise than that for the specific items).
So, yeah. We can't be sure what exactly the textile was, but people that far back knew how to weave _something,_ and knew ceramics. :-)
P.S. I am Czech, and yes, as a textile nerd I absolutely am proud of this fact even though today's Czech nation didn't really have a hand in it. ;-)
I also thought his skins were reminiscent of the fur trappers skins when living in America pre-colonization. crude but done to provide warmth when away from skilled trades people
I hate labels that put things in catagories of masculine and feminine. I love being good with guns, bows, hunting, self defense, homesteading, survival and I also love cute, fluffy, pink, sparkly things and technology. I don't see why we can't be a bit of it all.
Ugh, same! Just cos there are _some_ physical differences between women & men that affect _some_ aspects of life, doesn't mean we have to run with it & divide up everything else on the planet- _colours,_ seriously?! It legit sets the world back, cos there are women who are great mechanics & men who are great nurses, but if they don't ever try those things cos oh no, wrong gender, the world misses out.
@@beth7935 I mean, men and women do tend to make inherently different life decisions when free will and equality are being considered. As in Sweden, my home country, where we have some of biggest gendered discrepancies in certain occupations and industries, even though we're considered to be one of the most equal countires on earth.
In other words, it's totally fine for men and women to like the same stuff, but if our soceity's norms isn't a clear deciding factor in making a woman not start working in construction, then what is? That's where I would make the claim that masculine/feminine traits do play a big part, but what do you think?
Semi-related, chaotic thoughts: The „modern world“ is such a curious thing, offering comforts (I love my bathroom and electricity) while not being very comforting. So one runs away from it to feed the soul only to return a few days later to feed the stomach more easily - and maybe take a bath. Yet most talk about enhancing life-quality is focused on technology that either improves on the comforts (it’s not just headphones, it’s better headphones) or the people by making them more healthy or younger in appearance. There seems to be very little effort to make the „modern world“ more comforting and less of a thing one wants to run away from in the first place.
Maybe we are just looking for comfort at wrong place. I think there are some good paths of thinking. Reuse what you have, don't build your identiy on material things or stay in the moment.
People needed to figure out how to survive in the past.
Maybe now we have to figure out, how to help other people survive while aknowledging that we need to feed soul and body.
Like a change in diat :D
Comfort is the carrot on the string that leads us through the struggles of manual labour 🤔🤔
@@peppermintsmint I think comfort is more like brad crumbs. You should collect it along the way to keep up the energy :)
Talking about modern masculinity, the one thing thought I tend to end up, is that why do we need to define masculinity? Any good trait that I can think of, I want to see in any person, regardless of their gender. Loyalty, compassion, patience, politeness... man or woman, they are noble qualities
"That's a pretty manly thing to be able do... to improve someone else's life." -- PREACH!!!
It takes a lot more courage and dedication to be a constructive member of society than it does to run around hitting people in the face. And, for what it's worth, you are a *very* constructive member of society. You share knowledge and talk about issues that need to be talked about. So thank you 💙
I agree. Kindness and respect, along with generosity is an important aspect of maintaining community
@@avaconstant4893 Exactly. And anyone who thinks they can live a happy, healthy, safe life without a community around them is deluding themselves more than a little.
@@Katherine_The_Okay I've had people look down on me because I'm a Nurse Aide. My job involves emptying bedpans, turning patients so they don't get pressure ulcers, changing bandages, and feeding disabled patients who can't hold spoons.
If a person thinks a titan of industry who uses their obscene wealth to troll others is worthy of respect but thinks people who do my job aren't respectable then they are in my mind... pitiable...
My job may not pay much but I know what I do matters.
@@CollinMcLean Amen to every word you said, and thank you for everything you do to help people 💙 And I mean that on a very personal level. When I was 18, I was doing a work-study program thousands of miles from home when I got food poisoning. I was in the hospital for 6 weeks (4 of those weeks in the ICU) and the nurses and nurse's aids were the only thing that kept me feeling like I could hang on some days. My family couldn't afford to visit, so you guys were the only human contact I had during that whole time outside of phone calls.
Being famous for being good at sportsball or acting or just being stupidly rich doesn't make a person important. Helping a scared kid be less scared kid (or adult) be less scared and lonely makes a person important. You do amazing work so, again, thank you for tolerating the backbreaking and often unpleasant job in order to help improve human lives firsthand.
"Why the Niflheim not" is the phrase that I didn't know I needed until I heard it!!! 🤣 I live in Italy, but I know loads of people that are all "I am a viking, it's all about Odin, and Valhalla, and being an alpha man, and banging my sword because all vikings have swords on my shield that I only use for this purpose because I'm going to throw it on the ground as soon as possibile and show my naked torso with a lovely vegvisir and aegishjalmur tattoo to show that I'm a true viking and one of Odin's berserkers and I don't give shit", so it's so much refreshing to hear something more leveled and culturally appropriate. I won't be able to share a mead with you, but cheers to your knowledge, Jimmy!
Or, to translate the modern Norwegian expression: Why in Hel’s Realm not?
“Helsike” (originally “Hels rike” meaning “Hel’s realm”) is still a common swear word in modern Norwegian, about a millennium after the vast majority had converted from the old Norse religion to Christianity.
*banked for later use*
@@ragnkja
Thanks for the information 😋
@@ragnkja "Rike" sounds a lot like the German "Reich" and I probably just think that because "Reich" is often pronounced by English-speaking people the same way I read the word "rike" (in an English way, too) at first. And just to be clear, "Reich" can also be just used in the sense of "realm", "animal kingdom" for example is "Tierreich" in German ("Tier is a cognate of the English term deer).
But I'm kinda curious, is the "e" in "rike" mute? Scandinavian languages always have words where I'm not sure how they were possibly pronounced. Like with "víkingr". Is it basically "viking-r"? :D like an ARR sound in the end? My brain always thinks there is a vowel missing.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei
The E is not silent. And it’s “viking” in modern Norwegian (and “vikingur” in Icelandic if I’m not mistaken).
I like to think a warrior pillaging a church made sure he got the ivory panels off a bible. Back home he took them to the comb carver and watched in awe as the man who had never rowed a boat out of sight of land produced some beautiful combs. He then gave those combs to his wife and daughter
💖
I now want to just spam Tucker Carlson's inbox with this video nonstop because it's insightful and well thought and he would hate that.
I guess regardless of the time period people are people, human nature does not change. Those populations who lived a nomad or very "uncomfortable" life did it because they had no better option and later got too used to it and found it difficult to adapt to a different environment. It is mind boggling that all this stereotypical image of the Viking age ( people were violent and only good at fighting basically) is still so popular, so thank you Jimmy for helping spread knowledge! And as others said...a good man is a decent person, this should trascend history and geography.
Those excessively violent men would most likely have been declared “peaceless” (outlaws) in real life.
I’ve often found that the men I’ve known who tended to exhibit hyper masculinity were doing it from a deep place of fear, and overcompensating for feeling small and weak and inadequate in some societal way. And men who were very confident and comfortable with themselves and place in society were able to show much more sensitivity, and cooperative traits. I think our society doesn’t give enough support for mental health to men, or allow them to express or show fear, which forces them to internalize and overcompensate in some way to protect themselves emotionally.
I've often found the opposite to be true, to be honest.
There isn't help for anyone...men aren't more lonely or rejected than women, but women don't go around killing people because of it.
There was a quote I saw recently from one of the native elders. That a warrior was not about being good at fighting but about being willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for the protection of the people.
Palace, silk shirt and a table full of olives and cheap Greek wine? Where do I sign up?
What is a good man? That is a really difficult question. I'd say a good man has nothing to do with being a man, simply with being a good person, but I'm sure we could spend the rest of our lives discussing what makes a person good.
I had to pause the video at 4:22 to admire that bed. Now *that* is a headboard!
As for our conception of the Vikings as ultra-violent, I suspect some of that comes from people pointing to episodes in the Sagas, that relate stories of revenge killing cycles. And then, I wonder what an historian, a thousand years from now, would make of 21st Century Western culture if they found and deciphered fragments of scripts for our superhero movies. Just because we (and they) like over-the-top conflict in our stories doesn't mean we endorse or admire it in our real life.
Someone who got the epithet "Viking" probably _was_ quite violent, but the vast majority of Norse people in the Viking Age were not vikings.
@@ragnkja Yes. And also, that "Viking" was a profession, and even people *in* any profession don't engage in that one activity 24/7/365. Looked at globally, for example, the U.S. Marines have a rather {cough} robust {cough} military culture. But even a soldier enlisted in the Marines takes time out for hobbies and sleep, and silly games, and stupid jokes.
@@CapriUni
Yup; even people who went in viking didn't all get the epithet.
as an old feminist (if you think 30 year old back and knees are bad, I'd like to challenge that with my 50 year old degenerate skeleton...also I still dream of going off grid, I don't think either experience ever goes away ; P ) I'd like to interpret your definition of 'a good man' in the sense of 'a good person' the qualities you describe are things I think we all would like to strive for, regardless of gender. But I understand you're coming from the perspective of talking about toxic masc. As always I enjoyed your analysis and snark
Oh yes, addendum: all this is applicable through the gender spectrum!
Thank you for your interpretation. I was thinking the same!
Yes! As someone who has finally realised their non-binary identity in their forties (I'm slow, but I get there) I firmly believe that the very attempt to define "masculinity" and "femininity" is the core of the problem, we are attempting to define something that has no definition, because men are not an homologous monolith. If you identify as a man, and you strive to be a good person, a kind person, then you are a "good man" nothing else about you changes that. How we break out of such an entrenched false binary, however, is for smarter folk than I to determine!
I also loved the idea of "getting away" from society, but I grew up in a pretty rural area so the more I thought about it the less the idea made sense for me. Yeah people can suck, but I would rather be somewhere I can experience cultures I didn't grow up around and learn from people different from myself. It's nice to visit nature and spend time there to reconnect, but I wouldn't want to live there full time (which is even funnier when I mention I'm pagan and a lot of us neo-Pagans do have a deep appreciation for nature). My Aunt lives in a super isolated area (directions to her house involve "turn off the paved road") and it would drive me bonkers.
@@katbairwell congratulations on figuring out some more of your identity, better late than never right?! I'm so glad to see more and more people share their journey in this regard, it'has tought me a lot about my own preconceptions on what it means to be human, and that there is not so much of a right way, but just the way that is best for you.
I grew up with intermittent use of hot water and heat. We'd often turn the oven on and open it a crack to thaw our frozen fingers. Forget large mansions, expensive cars, long vacations and personal trainers. Heating, in my opinion, is the height of luxury.
Now I just kind of want to give you a hug.
That may be more of a comment on masculinity than I was intending...
Hey Jimmy!
I can totally remember the exact same question about living in tents full time and if the parents in our living-history group sent their kids to school when I did 13th century at events. But, it always was a great conversation starter with interested visitors.
Anyway, much appreciation for tackling that topic and adressing the misconceptions that still float around the image of life in the past... one item at the time, I guess, ey?
I wish you the best, (mental) health- and otherwise!
Hey! Thanks C P! Glad to know it's a good conversation when you have it with people :)
It is distressing, that it seems, there is always going to be a group of people that take cautionary tales that teach you how not to act, and use them as a guide to live their lives. You say 'Don't be an asshole and here is how you go about that' and they hear 'be an asshole, here you go.'
Yep. This.
Reminds me of Fight Club!
I’m a trans man and this video really hit. The dilemma of being a Good Man vs a Good Person is so intertwined into the trans experience. When ‘you’ first transitioning you’re essentially entering into another world, one where the structures and rules are all different. And you want to conform as best as you can so nobody can question your maleness. And so you look up to these idealised images of men, of great warriors who did nothing but fight and pillage and drink mead and eat slabs of animals they killed (but definitely didn’t cook oh no not men).
When I started transitioning it was well before conversations around toxic masculinity became mainstream. And I bought into that stuff. And you know what? I was miserable. I was so miserable the very Rules that told me how to be a man made me doubt if I even wanted to go through with being a Man at all. It was horrible.
It’s years later and I’m living my best life, finally detangling myself of all that rubbish. And I’m so much happier. I found community and love and real, tangible things I feel are worth standing up for. I can’t speak to all trans experiences. But for me, being a man is knowing who you are and what you value. It’s about care and love and community. It’s about a sense of self that comes from you but is so strong it grounds you and bleeds out to the people around you. It’s about taking care of yourself and your family, whatever that word means to you. It’s about being a good brother and uncle, someone that people feel safe around and who trust you enough to turn to.
It’s not about Power, it’s about Respect.
Respect for your community, your friends, your loved ones and it’s respect for yourself. If you can’t respect yourself enough to be comfortable in your own form of masculinity, one YOU carved, not one people told you to be, then you need to reevaluate what that word means to you. You need that iron-hard sense of self. Respect, compassion, love and joy.
I also had this experience, but for me there was one more thing: I am a gay trans man. And before I came out to my friends, I was really toxic, I overanalyzed everything I did and I forced myself to like girls because that's the "manly thing to do", I felt that if straight girls liked me, I was a real man, even if I couldn't feel anything for them.
Now I am an adult and I came out to people and this made me stop being so toxic to myself (it was just to myself, I was way nicer to other men), I am still not happy, but I am way better than before.
I am a trans man too who lived a miserable life as a woman for 35 years. I never could get to grips with being a woman. When I transitioned I decided that I would stop worrying about these things. That I would do what I want to do and not refrain from doing things that men don't do. It means that I do carpentry and textile work as a viking. And I am loving it!
I think that one of the things that gets lost in discussions of masculinity is how concepts of masculinity change. The idea that a "Wild Man" type is very masculine is a fairly modern idea. Norse and Icelandic masculinity often emphasizes things like generosity - the idea that a "Real Man" is someone who provides the things his family and dependents need in abundance and gives gifts to other people around him, who takes people who have no support of their own and brings them into his own support network. By the time Njal's Saga is written, we are being shown the idea that a "Real Man" is someone who can show restraint (an idea which also shows up in ideas of "chivalry" further south) - Gunnar and Njal attempt to stop the violence that is destroying their communities by refusing to engage in it, and the saga only ends when the last two characters standing choose to very publicly set aside their weapons and live peacefully, allowing their families and dependents to flourish. The people of the Viking Age knew perfectly well that violence is destructive to communities, and that communities are necessary for survival.
Sexist, toxically masculine men (& the women who agree with them) refuse to acknowledge that masculinity has changed through history- they're all set on biological determinism.
word of warning Jimmy. I'm still waiting to grow up at 72 and suspect it's a universal challenge regardless of sex. There is no magic moment when we stop pretending to be adult and it comes easy. The child's freedom from responsibilities has extended in recent years and in some places still ends at puberty when school ends and work begins. Maybe we need to adjust society so periods of childhood are slotted into adult lives to refresh and gain perspective and return valuing our responsibilities. That's what reenactors I know have.
Out of all the intelligent, thoughful statements you have made in this video, I took this one down for future use in discussions:"It wasn't like the Wild West. The wild west wasn't even like the Wild West." Because in the 21th century we have the same "rugged individual- supermen-fighting for themselves-and- against-each-other-constantly"-stereotypes for both the "Wild West" and the Viking Age, perpetrated my movies and literature....
Thanks for your thoughts on the topic, Jimmy ❤
The whole thing about masculinity is something that i’m considering a lot nowadays. I’ve been traveling around Mexico these past six months, and there is a lot of warmth and affection and loyalty to your mates going around here, but there is a LOT of machismo also going on. Something i personally would like to add to the concept of good masculinity is accountability, honesty, and clarity of communication. I have massive respect for men who are able to say where they stand and what they want, for men who understand the concept of “no” and for men who ask for permission.
Always a pleasure Jimmy. As the Greatest of all warriors said the 3 best things in life are always:
"hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper"
😄
Oh man, thanks for this video! And so cool that you're sponsored by them! I'll definitely go watch the movie when it comes out. I just saw "The Northman" this week and this video is such a great contrast! Even though "The Northman" is also trying to undermine toxic masculinity, it does that very poorly in my opinion..."Wild Men" sounds so much more successful (and with less/no material for neo-nazis and the alt-right to appropriate...)!
It's genuinely a great little film, and it has absolutely got its tongue in its cheek when it comes to ultra masculine types
I love this take on masculinity. There is genuinely nothing sexier than a man who can take care of people without being partonizing, who is reliable and responsible, but who also knows how to enjoy life and relax.
I can't tell you how many times I've wished that I could just drive away from things like property tax, roof repair, and the unending cycle of grocery shopping/cooking/washing up. And never come back, of course. The comedy trope of the midlife crisis is way less funny now that I'm 45. And male midlife crisis trope is even worse because these poor men suffering from depression/anxiety/overwhelm aren't allowed to awknowledge their pain and confusion because manly men don't have feelings.
It sounds like Martin's idea of an ideal man is somewhat based on a romanticised view of vikings, so his inaccurate clothing represents that well.
Yeah, that seems very likely to me as well.
I didn't know before, but that's exactly what I need today. Thank you Jimmy!
I also needed this video. It goes beyond "being a man". It's about our potential as humankind. Thank you, Jimmy.
Aw I'm so glad it was what you needed! This is so lovely of you to say :)
...I get "you were born in the wrong century!" a lot. No, thank you. Despite my hobbies including medieval amrouring, swordfighting and historical (-ish) sewing, as well as an urge to become self-suffiient by learning the old ways of doing things, I prefer to live in a world with antibiotics, steroid inhalers, prescription lenses, window screening, thermostats, not getting persecuted for doing things "more appropriate for the opposite gender" and some degree of bodily autonomy when it comes to procreation. *edit* yes I realize not everyone today has these priveledges and I am recognizing how lucky I am to be who I am where I am when I am.
I agree but still i dont know why mediieval stuff appeal to me so much. Its like there is something missing in the modern world about ourselves.
@@arielgoldfarb4118 I think it's the hands-on experience some of us feel is missing, we don't grow our own food, we don't make our own clothes, we don't know how to make much of anything ourselves, we just buy it.
“Why the Niflheim not?” is going to find a place in my every day speech, I swear. Great video, as always!
I was quite proud of that, I must admit!
What’s wrong with the classic “Why in Helsike (Hel’s realm) not?”?
@@ragnkja absolutely nothing! Add it to the arsenal of curses!
@@TheWelshViking Rightly so!
@@goblincavecrafting
"What in Helsike?" is probably the most common phrase other than just the curse on its own, followed by "Go [or literally travel] to Helsike!"
It's okay, Jimmy. I'm 52 and still don't feel like a grown up. I have been lucky to be surrounded by men in my life that take kindness, honesty, and strength of character to be mandatory in their makeup. Looks like an interesting watch. I'll have to check it out on May 6. Thanks.
After watching this it occurred to me that one of the things people did (besides defend themselves) during the world wars was try to preserve any elements of their culture that they could. Art, poetry, literature, whatever they could save. People at their core value beauty and their expression of it, and I don't think that would have occurred to me if you hadn't posted this video.
You continue to gain more and more respect from me, Jimmy! My oldest son is in Boy Scouts (Everyone has an opinion on this organization in the States) and I'm a leader in it. From my experience, many of the points you highlighted as to what masculinity are echoed in scout values; how they as scouts act, grow and ultimately contribute to society and live their own lives. Yes, they do the stereotypical shooting, knot tying, canoeing, etc. etc. but they are also being called more often in requirements to go beyond them. "Do a Good Turn Daily" is their slogan that I use as a foundation as a leader in addition to the Cub Scout motto of "Do Your Best".
Scandinavian movies are awesome. Definitely I'm going to watch it at some point. And of course I agree here. Because only popculture portrays them as violent savages because violence sells.
I struggle in society today.
Everytime somebody asks:" But how did they manage such things in the past?" I answer: "They died."
I'm mentaly ill and have a couple physical issues.
I am pretty sure if I was born a tiny bit sooner in time, I would have had an "accident" nobody could explain, because I should have known better.
If I was born a lot earlier I wouldn't have survived childhood or I would be miserable, because I would be useless.
In a weired way thank you society for keeping me alive so I could discover my worth :)
No penicilin, no anestesia, no anxiety meds, no thanks!
We have thousands, and I mean thousands of examples of past societies looking after relatives and friends with mental and physical issues! You'd never have been useless, and you're super valuable now as you are! :)
But yeah, chronic pain sans meds? Nothanks
We have thousands, and I mean thousands of examples of past societies looking after relatives and friends with mental and physical issues! You'd never have been useless, and you're super valuable now as you are! :)
But yeah, chronic pain sans meds? Nothanks
@@TheWelshViking
NOW I know, there is no such thing as useless people :) But it took me a long ass time to get there.
And I would have realy struggled growing up at the time of my grand parents. (Have you tried beeing happy? You could just do xy, it's not hard.)
And though I would have been a badass blind story teller, I don't think my body would have made it through the winter. ;)
It is always a bit of gamble if you have a disability. Time, place and society.
We are all valid and usefull. But sometimes the resources aren't there. And though love, care and respect can go a long way (it did for me), there are things that need a special treatment.
I'm a bit afraid if we put too much emphasize on the importance of the people around a person, we forget how much society can help.
(Just what a relief public health insurance can be!)
We manged to get quiet far. And though the world is dumpster fire, we can stop sometimes and appreciate the now :)
Anaesthesia is great, but if the surgeon, dentist or doctor who did the operation(s) you needed anaesthesia for didn’t understand how and why to keep the wound clean and the tools sterile you’d be even less likely to have survived.
@@ragnkja Yep! The modern world has so many wonders and nightmares :)
Thank you for this video!
So much about it is relevant. From the talk about toxic masculinity, to the lives experience of re-enact Ora having to readjust to modern life.
And the movie sounds like it’s well worth watching, I’ll have to see if it’s available in my country.
For me the measure of a “man” (or any person really) is seeing how they treat children or vulnerable people.
If someone treats the most vulnerable in society with respect, that (imo) makes them a good person.
This review feels like a squide rugby video at the beginning!
Your definition of masculinity starting at 5:46 is very good. Duty, honour, integrity, burden carrying and being a rock for your family and community are the characteristics of a useful adult man. The word Gentleman incorporates this nicely, you are all the hard rough tough strong qualities capable of being destructive and dangerous should it be required but you control yourself and are gentle with other men, women and children. In the gangster movie a bronx tale there is a great qoute "it doesn't take much strength to pull a trigger, but try getting up every morning, day after day, and work for a living,let's see him try that, then we'll see who the real tough guy is, the working man is the tough guy"
Curious enough, Townsends has just made a video on it as well, that rugged man where just guys that liked to go home after days hunting in the wild, in 18th century America. Check it out: "The Myth of the Rugged Individual", May 29th 2022.
4:40 "It's never easy to live the life that you want to live and be the person you want to be."
As a trans person in the UK, this hits hard.
Masculinity and the policing of it can be very oppressive and letting go of the rules which define what one can or cannot do, think or feel is very liberating.
I don't often watch films but this looks like I might enjoy it. I don't think I'd be able to live 'off grid' for any substantial time - literally, unless I can find a way to hunt wild heart medication with a bow and arrow. I'm not sure that it is toxic masculinity that's our biggest problem but toxic individuality where "There's no such thing as society" as some old witch once said. There are people who depend on me to do some things for them and I depend on many others such as food producers, grocers, bar staff, ...... not forgetting great CZcams content makers. Thanks Jimmy.
I sincerely hope as many people as possible see this video and learn something from it; I feel like Jimmy has given a lot of young men like myself an excellent view of what proper masculinity can and should be in the modern day, and I think a lot people could find it very useful; this wasn’t the video I was expecting, but I think this was was more important and more enjoyable; thank you and have a blessed day; stay strong and know we are out here routing for you!
Thank you for being so vulnerable. I am also in my early thirties and forwent pursuing academics for a more practical job that takes all my time and energy. It helps to see people I look up to, like you, also admitting to dealing with mental illness and general malaise for the rat race. 💖 love your perspective!
Community is what a lot of people are missing. Everyday I am more and more convinced that this is the fundamental issue of our times. We will overcome it, but we are just at the point where I think we have realized that this is the cause or our cultural malaise. And I think people are beginning to realize that. I foresee many people building more and more communities for our modern times.
I LOVE hot and cold running water -- AND IT"S INSIDE!!!
So, an older, married friend of ours was telling the spouse about wanting to retire and go off the grid, and how he'd been talking to this guy who lives up in the mountains in a little cabin he built himself and how he has to come down every so often for water and supplies, and he chops wood to warm the place, etc. And the spouse stopped him, and asked, "Does this guy have a woman?" "Why, uh, no, he lives alone." To which the spouse replied, "Yeah, you keep this up, and you will, too."
It’s early morning here and I’m a little fuzzy but I love your point of view on the topic of masculinity ❣️ I’ve raised a son and I think he would totally agree with you, loyalty and love are manly arts, thank you Jimmy ✌🏼
I just woke up to this and it's wonderful 💜 Thank you for saying important things and for the phrase "Why the Niflheim not?"
1. Congrats on the sponsorship! Woot!
2. When I lived in California, I kept running into people with one or more grandparents from Iowa (where I grew up) where the winters are cold and harsh (and, incidentally, a huge percentage of people trace their ancestry to Scandinavia). Typically, their grandparents went to California for a job and then just stayed. Because, who wouldn’t want to trade in blizzards and rural life for a warm climate and locally made wine once they experienced it? I’m not surprised Viking age Scandinavians did the same.
I'm so glad your addressing this topic and I think you did a brilliant job of it. Thank you!
It's not the way you stumble that defines your character.
It's how you rise again
As you were describing how masculinity was viewed in the past, the line “If ‘manners maketh man’ as someone said/He’s the hero of the day” from one of Sting’s songs came to mind. It makes me think about how individual and personal concepts like masculinity or feminimity are to a person and how I would try to explain it to someone else. Love videos like this that get me thinking.
I got two words in, while I was about to cook dinner, and my husband swooped in and started helping. Seems I got a good one. Now to finish watching the rest of the video...
I find this a very interesting debate because I actually came very close to transitioning, I had done a great deal of soul searching and research. There are still times that I think about it to this day, if not with the same emphasis. Now, I’ve since had the realization part of it had to do with family expectations (they were told I was a boy in the womb but I came out a girl), and my struggle with the disappointment that followed. But it really does just seem to boil down to the struggle to be a decent person. Thank you for sharing
So happy to see you ramble on on my phone once again❤ definitely looks like a film I'd enjoy
I would like to get away from "what does it mean to be a good man?" and into, "what does it mean to be a good human?"
And the answer is, to realize that we live in a society, not just in small family units or by ourselves, so we must care for others in praxis.
I do believe in what you've said - that that is what it means to be a good person - but I believe that, today, we need to provide a contrast to certain strands in society for men specifically sometimes, because I think that this is one area where a man might be in need of specific support that addresses what it is to be a man. It isn't that I believe men to be marginalised, but I _do_ think there are more than a few who would appreciate something tailored to them that addresses these issues right now, in order to counter the toxicity of certain ideas being pushed at them in some parts "or else you're not a real man".
I think what I'm saying is it's good to have a video like this be made for men (although what it says very much applies to everyone who wants to be a good person). It may reach more men this way who have worked out what it _doesn't_ mean to be a man, but are looking for what it _does_ mean.
I cant wait to see this! I'm glad a movie like this made, especially in our time. Young men and women today should see strength isnt all you need to be masculine. You're doing an amazing job Jimmy! Keep it up!❤
Interestingly Townsends just did a video along a similar vein about the "rugged individual" myth in the context of the colonial US. I think it could make a nice companion for this one. Just need someone to explore the white supremacist implications (or in the very least descent) of this ideology next and you have a trilogy (if anyone can point me to one let me know, I suspect it already exists)!
It is all about looking down on the people who provide the support services. The people that provide the agricultural work, the clothing, the tools, the food processing, the housing. It is about thinking you are entitled to those services without respecting the people or willing to pay adequately for them.
I have to say this movie were an awesome experience to be part of (I'm the Viking reenactor in the leather Birka hat and the Francisca (I do living history in the viking age crafting town that were used during the film))
I was positivly surpriced when I saw the movie and how deep the story really were.
Great discussion! It really showed up how much I don't get gender tho- I was just going, "yeah, but I just try to be a good _person-_ I honestly can't think of a single thing I think I should do differently if I was a man". "Masculinity" & "femininity" are totally meaningless concepts to me, & I wish we could ditch them & just get on with being who we truly are, & being good _people,_ not wondering "what is masculinity? How do I be a good _man?"_ I only feel like me being a woman is relevant cos of a) my physical body & b) more importantly, how people treat me cos of that body. The only bit I think really affects your life is having babies, but I haven't & I won't, so... 🤷♀ Thanks for talking about this stuff as a bloke, & in the context of fascinating history that you know sooo much about! Taking down the "ugh, manly man kill stuff!" idea of Vikings, & men in general, is important. (& talking about mental health- sympathies; been there, done that, got the psych ward wristband & it ain't fun. Take care of yourself & your gorgeous kitties!)
I think the most appealing thing to a masculine person is strength in multiple forms. Building a fire is a tender art and being gentle in the face of stress is a hard thing.
I loved this video and I'm so excited for the film!
What an intro oh my gosh, nailing the content as always Jimmy!
Not exactly Viking period per say, but I've just finished reading an English translation of William Marshal's biography written in the mid-ish 13th century. And yes there's the requisite, "Oh what a great warrior he was,, men fighting well hell yeah!" stuff, but there's just as much time devoted to talking about William being a good person because he was loyal, he kept his word, he was kind, generous, showed empathy to others, had a great singing voice, enjoyed dancing, had a great sense of humour, treated his wife and family very well, and so on and so forth.
Lovely vid - I really want to watch this film now! And the bit about their cleanliness and creativity reminded me of seomthing I've wondered for a while, which is that before the Roman invasions, the Norse might have had a much more sophisticated and comfortable life, based on trade with other nations (many of which would have been cut off from them by the Romans) and they only went 'a viking' because they were so low on resources. I wish we knew more about them from before the Viking period.
There's a pretty long gap (about 400 years) between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the first documented Viking raid though.
@@ragnkja True - maybe that's connected too. If only we knew more....
A lot of ‘alpha’ people probably need to be told that even in the Neolithic the person in charge wasn’t the biggest strongest meanest person, it was the person with most friends and who people had the most confidence in, being a good warrior only really makes the people in charge want to be your friend slightly more
Every time I think I couldn't possibly love Jimmy more, he brings out a video like this.
OK, _so_ glad I wasn't drinking coffee yet at 3:54. You had me trying to catch every set-in addition by that point and I would have choked to death.
This is such an important conversation and I'm really glad you've made a video on it.
But...
I'd also really love more movie (and tv and book) recommendations from you.
Ok
seconded!
I think one of the reasons why we romanticise the past so much is the escape that those weekends of camp life at events give us. I get it, I enjoy it, too. But it's not life in the past. All these things we escape from: Work, landlords, worrying about money, politics, etc. - our ancestors had those, too.
We wish ourselves back to a simpler life. But it wasn't simpler. It was maybe slower. But also a lot less cushioned. One small accident or two years of crop failure, and you're dead.
I enjoy reenactment events, I love it. It's a great time off from my normal life. But it's cherry picking the nice aspects of life in the past.
Also, thank you for your talk about toxic masculinity. I feel like viking reenactment tends to attract this mindset, with how the media portrays this age (despite, there are a lot of fantastic people in this scene, I'm just talking about percentages here). In my experience, it's better with late medieval times. Maybe the tight, colorful hose don't feel manly enough for the kind of guys who always need to reassure themselves of their manliness :D
Jimmy, be kind to yourself. I didn't enjoy turning 30 either. I'll be 38 in a few weeks. It's not that bad. 30s is being comfortable with you, finding yourself. excuse the corniness lol wait until you have a couple of pre teens judging you. That'll help so much.
This was good to read, diolch :) I seem to spend half my life being judged by someone's kids!
@@TheWelshViking Turning 30 is rubbish. But turning 50... actually that was fab ;) There are things to look forward to!
@@paulaunger3061 True.
Thank you, Jimmy for sharing this. I enjoyed this video, and have myself had that feeling of not having accomplished enough
There's always a balance, between society and the Hobsian trap. In the absence of (for want of a better term) policing, it behooves you to demonstrate that you are violent and vengeful, to help disuade violence and theft against you. A lot of the basis of most societies' "honour" systems are often based on this. But, it's harmful to society. The more society can police things, the less effort needs to be wasted on useless feuds and violence for the sake of being scary. But, it's still half baked into our responses. I can't say how much is taught and how much is baked into our biology, but often these things are a biological predisposition in the presence of the right triggers.
So, in a tribal, small group, surrounded by other small groups, it makes sense (in a short sighted sort of way) to be a toxic shithead. But even though the "viking age" was some time ago, it is way after the point where Scandanavia could be called small tribal settlements. They had laws, culture, large settlements and everything that comes with that. In no culture ever studied with permanent buildings has toxic masculinity ever had full free reign. Society always has limits on such bullshit, and will always crack down on violence. If it didn't, it would fall apart. Sensible people always see the dangers of unchecked violence. The idea that Norse at the time were running around fighting duels every second day, and pillaging each other constantly is patently daft. But here we are, with modern society still portraying them like that.
I love this video. I, like most young men, have been trying to learn how to be a good man and my dad is one of those people who has fully latched onto the incorrect concept of the strong viking raider who didn't need anyone and could survive all on his own in the wilderness. It's so refreshing to learn the truth about vikings, that I kind of already knew because so many people push the pseudo-historical toxic masculinity and I hate it.
I'm always a bit suspicious when I start watching any channel that deals with any part of Norse history - but I was pleasantly surprised, and you gained a new subscriber!!!
Being a good person has in truth always been a valuable personal trait, that we for some reason keep trying to convince ourselves that people don't actually value or want.
I think that deep down that's what most people want, to be good and honest.
fantastic video, as always! Thank you!
This was such a wonderful video! I love your take on all this and how you’re opening up the conversation!
That's so kind of you to say, thank you!
To be honest, this discourse about one "warrior culture" reminded me a lot of the discussions going on around The Mandalorian (the series). :-) There are also all these themes about providing for one's community and protecting one's family (or the nearest available similar person); where everyone expected the main character to be a tough warrior but then that wasn't what the series was about at all, even though he still is a tough warrior.
So, yeah, more of that, please. :-)
Welp you've sold me on the film lol. I feel exactly how you described feeling at the beginning of the video. It really is a grass is always greener type of thing with wanting to reject modern society. Knowing that still doesn't stop me from thinking, "what if I was a weaver in a wholesome small community making things for the people I love?" 🤔🤔🤔
Congrats on the sponsorship!!!!
This was such a wonderful video. Enlightening and eye opening and kind. Well done man. :)
DAMN, Jimmy! Absolutely excellent video. Thank you.
I cannot wait to see this film.
I love this video. It says out loud what i've thought for the longest time.
Having the need to defend as opposed to the desire to attack are very different things.
Art and craftsmanship, the respecting, providing and caring is definitely the goal in my mind. Who does what in regards to crafting and caring etc does not matter to me.
I grew up more attuned to things my step-dad did than anything my mother did. Perhaps because, i am left handed and my mum couldn't reverse engineer the knitting or crochet to teach me - or because my dad was more open to teaching me woodwork, building and electronics. idk.
Btw, at 9:40, you started to touch on the first concept my dojo attempts to instill in trainees (far before you learn how to kill people bare-handed): the first rule is to accept that you're fighting to defend yourself and your loved ones, not to start sh*t or take stuff. Honor is a huge part of karate (well, they call it _Rei_, but-).
I don't imagine the Viking culture being devoid of the concept. The issue comes when groups of people look at the 'other' and refuse to recognize them as worthy of honor.
Great video! I will check out the film you spoke about. Love your content!
I definitely need to see this movie. I've had my own battles with toxic masculinity due to being trans, among other issues. And yeah, we can joke about insecurity and overcompensating until the cows come home, but there’s a deep horror and tragedy in not even being able to recognize one's own power, let alone channelling it toward good. The fact that so many men seem to be managing their anxiety with violence and big loud cars may not be a new problem, but it's still a very serious one. Thank you.
My favourite skewering of the "rugged man living alone in the wilderness" is this fun fact from Thoreau's life: the whole time he was living alone in his cottage by Walden pond, writing that book, his mum and sister would come to visit him once a week.
They brought homemade doughnuts for him.
Two thoughts: One: "Adam was created at the age of thirty as it is perfect age and stature of man" (I paraphrase from memory Sir Thomas Browne). So you are at a good age.
Second, you have found your vocation: you are a great teacher. You have passion, love of and use of scholarly knowlege, and are very animated in your lectures. Each of these qualities is rare and the combination of them very rare indeed.Your students will love you, at least until you have to give them tests.
J.E.S. , Ph,D, in Virginia, U.S.A., Professor Emeritus of History.
The movie sounds like a good conversation. And that one screenshot (1:51) was *chefs kiss* amazing scenery
You being sponsored by the movie makers is everything!!! I'll watch the movie bc of that 🤩🤩🤩
Dane here - and I didn't know about this movie untill watching this video 😳 (wonder if I live under a rock... 🤨🙄 )
I love living in an age where I can throw clothes in a magic box and they come out clean! Spent 4 years of my life living on an off grid protest camp and some bits of it were great, even the wood fire heated shower. But the bad bits were awful. Frozen pipes, lack of refrigeration for food, and yes, no electric washing machine.