Is Stephen King Great Literature?
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2021
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Happy reading!
King may not write great literature but he is a great storyteller. Whenever I start one of his short stories, novellas, or novels, I always have to know how it ends.
I feel the same way even with the King novels I've already read. I'm rereading Misery at the moment, a favourite of mine alongside The Dead Zone, and I have been staying up late to see how it ends, despite having read it and watched the film countless times!
His horror isn't that scary and he doesn't use a lot of twists. What King does best (in my opinion) is making the reader identify with the main character within a few sentences. That's his real talent .
I'm with you on his talent for characters. King is very much like Dickens in that way!
I’m reading the Hodges trilogy and it definitely has a lot of twists
@@aacostasd Yes, it's bit more of a thriller series. One of the good things about King is that he still experiments with different concepts. This series around a few MC's is relatively new for King . However his latest edition 'Holly'has no twists at all. But I won't go into that as you (probably ?) haven't read that one yet.
I think the trait King provides throughout his novels, isn’t the fantasy. I feel he grasps the concept of the human experience from youth to adults. He has shown us our flaws and perfections in a fantastic way. Is he great technical writer? No. Is he one of the most amazing story tellers that gives a window into our experience as people? Absolutely. Maybe as well as anyone.
Dostoevsky is most definetly great literature, he may not have had the greatest prose. But he is perhaps the greatest psychological writer ever
he is up there with the likes of Nietzsche and Shakespeare as writer with a deep understanding of the human condition.
Completely agree. Dostoevsky has written at least four - and arguably five - true masterpieces.
Dostoevsky is pub grub! 😂 ok.
The tricky word here is "great," which is entirely subjective. The bar should be whether it fits the classificatio of literature or not.
How in the world Dostoevsky is not great prose? He is literally the best writer in terms of using his language Ive ever read (Im russian native). He could always find a word that completely describes the scene and the character in its own unique way, be it a word from slums or from a dictionary. Some people say his long sentences are obsolete, but I think his span of thought rolls the best in them, and I like to write like that myself too
@@user-hx1lp6fc9rnobody said he’s not a great prose-writer. This person simply said that he didn’t have the 'absolute greatest ever'.
Great video. Would love to see a Stephen King ranking video!
For what it's worth, King is my favourite author and while I agree with certain of the criticism against him, I think there are some works you could argue approach great "literature" (i.e. The Shining, Lisey's Story, Revival). In my opinion, King is a master of human emotion and crafting believable, empathetic characters. He gets in people's heads. King knows how to write human emotion in a way where you feel your own issues, past problems, and traumas exploited through his genius. And in my opinion, there is often something revelatory in that
That's exactly what I think!
'a Stephen King ranking video'. yes please
King draws characters beautifully. The tragic heroes such as the dad in Firestarter, or Jonny Smith in the dead Zone, are my go-to examples. And in Firestarter, the farmer who defies the CIA, saying "this aint no Gestapo, you cant come here with no papers.." is fantastic. King draws a character with one or two sentences, and that's what draws me in.
Great video - but I don’t know how you can read ‘The Brothers Karamazov’ and not call Dostoevsky a Michelin-starred author 😭
Oh, The Brothers Karamazov is definitely Michelin-star, high art, and eminently Shakespearean. I suppose I was thinking more of the early mature Dostoyevsky of Crime and Punishment, which is still masterpiece, one I love and talk about endlessly! :)
Benjamin McEvoy
Much appreciated video! Ranking is always tricky and controversial. The Michelin star label clearly derives from originality and being first, in your definition. Joyce and Faulkner would be on the list, I recon. For me, the in depth captioning and exploring of the human condition is cardinal. In that sense Dostoevsky is unmatched. Even the soap-like The Idiot unravels the human frivolity in a uncompromising way. My michelin stars would definitely go to Dostoevsky
@@fabregas4ars I think I've been convinced about Dostoyevsky. Joyce and Faulkner, absolutely without question. I love how you've phrased this: 'the in depth captioning and exploring of the human condition is cardinal.' Beautiful!
Benjamin McEvoy Thanks. I hope you keep uploading the inspiring content!
I wonder, do you think authors nowadays can be as significant as likes of Tolstoy, Austen, Dostoevsky? Being able to say something new or in a new way has historical relevance tied directly into it, so those who started earlier tend to be regarded as the most important / greatest. But with almost everything having been said in countless ways in the past thousand years, could a new author come around and spark a new idea or present things in a new way?
What a great thing to think about. I'll make a video about this because there's a lot to go into, and you're so right. Basically everything really has been done, and I believe novelists have been aware of (and depressed about) this for over a century. If we look at the literary epoch just passed (Modernism), Joyce, Proust, Hemingway, and Woolf certainly managed to cement themselves. If I had to put bets on which authors from today will endure, it would have to be Cormac McCarthy, Toni Morrison, Jonathan Franzen (maybe?) - but the question of who will present new ideas or do so in new ways... Well, we're on the precipice of enormous and startling social and technological change. The old forms are getting stagnant. And there's a feeling of unrest and unease... That's got to lead to some powerful literature... I hope!
I believe a Phoenix will rise out of the ashes of the mundane and uninspired literature that is most abundant these days. It will come. Especially with last few greats of literature moving on into the latter stages of their lives (McCarthy, Pynchon, Delillo). Someone will arise and shoot out something of greatness. Take the reins and lead us on a new path. It may even go unnoticed, because we aren’t quite ready for it. But I believe it is inevitable, just like time itself. Like you just added Benjamin, with all the great social changes occurring, times of strain generally produce great works of art. So I am hopeful, it could be soon, but it could also be a while and we may not live to see it. But, I believe it will come.
Sadly, I would argue that it would be difficult to get such profound literature in this day and age, not just because of the vast body of work that has gone before, but because education is slowly going by the wayside. The number of people that are being provided with a classical education has waned in recent decades and (even worse) is aimed at a generation without the emotional/psychological depth to fully appreciate it.
@@asdisskagen6487 Sad, as you say, but true. Dumbed down curricula are cheating our youngsters.
Cormac McCarthy, for sure. Khaled Hosseini, maybe? Ken Follett, maybe? Salman Rushdie, probably.
I enjoy King’s work, especially his short stories and the Dark Tower series. I agree with you, it’s not “literature” but it certainly is entertaining storytelling.
The Dark Tower is awesome :) inspired by one of my favourite poems!
If great literature is that which tells us essential, eternal truths about the human condition in a revelatory way, then I don't think King qualifies. But he is a great storyteller and writer, which I would suggest is not so much a lesser achievement, as merely a different one. In this regard, I would suggest that he follows in the tradition of Collins, Doyle, Poe, Sayers, le Carre, et al., "sensational" writers who, in addition to providing great entertainment, said a lot about the society in which they lived, and the people who filled it. King, for all of his gonzo supernatural flourishes, is a great writer of small towns, middle America, average kids and adults who just want to get by. I think a great deal of his popularity now owes to the fact that readers can thus relate easily; and I think that this may, in a sense, increase his literary merit over time, as readers in 2150 could learn a lot about a certain era's anxieties by reading (for example) The Stand.
Amazing comment. Thank you so much, Alex. And I completely agree with you. Very interesting that you put him with Poe - something I'm sure King would be chuffed with. I find Poe entertaining but have always had my reservations when readers call him "great" literature. Like Maupassant (another fun one), I'm simply not sure he fits into that category. Which is absolutely fine. I love how you've phrased this - 'King, for all of his gonzo supernatural flourishes, is a great writer of small towns, middle America, average kids and adults who just want to get by.' Perfectly put.
His language doesn’t sell. Worth collecting except he is his own unlike the great and Fantastic men of the printed word!
Brilliant as always Ben. I grew up devouring King as a young girl and teen. And he is one of my go to authors as an adult. I know what to expect from him and I am rarely disappointed as a reader. I have had a few that I wasn’t as thrilled with, but going back as an adult I can see why, I just wasn’t in the right time in life to read them.
I agree that he is not quite in the definition of great literature. King is not going to be an Austin or Tolstoy rank, but he will not be forgotten either, he is too iconic. He ranks up there with names in the pop-culture literature like Poe, Lovecraft, Stoker, etc. He has influenced so many of our current (and future writers) that even if his stories disappear from public there is always that influence.
I love most of he work, but a few I would mention, in no order, are The Dome, Needful Things, The Dark Tower Series, The Shinning, Doctor Sleep, The Stand, and many more. First King I ever read was Firestarter.
A reread of King sounds lovely. I have been wanting to go through and actually kind of map out the Dark Tower and the Man in Black. 💜
Thank you, Danielle :) Your experience with King sounds very similar to mine. Another thing that I forgot to mention was King's introductions to the 'Constant Reader' - I used to live for those intros. He'd hype the book and get you excited and it felt so intimate, like an old friend was about to tell you a story. Really great to see you putting him alongside Poe, Lovecraft, and Stoker. I think he would be so happy with that, and would agree himself. I love your choices too - Firestarter is a great first King. Mine was The Shining. The Firestarter film is a little dated but very enjoyable too! :)
I agree, Danielle. Please allow me a little correction: it’s ‘Under the Dome’ and ‘The Shining’. Cheers
A Stephen King list would be awesome 👍... also a list of your own favorite works, maybe top 30 or 10? Great channel man, enjoying the content.
Funny no one mentions “Cujo”. It scared me so intensely that I was afraid to turn the page! He tells a good story but maybe not great literature.
Scared the pants off me too! I found it amusing that King can't recall even writing it. The film was also pretty intense :)
It’s a scary bender alright!! Maybe it’s the fairly simple plot or the almost comically of-its-era 80s movie adaptation that people overlook it.. but I rank it highly with regards his scariest novels. It might’ve been the second King book I read after Carrie -which I found more disturbing than scary- …Cujo creeped me out and gave me a mild fear of dogs and creatures in the night for a time.
What is even "great literature"? Sounds like a hollow phrase
I've also been on a chronological read through - I've made it to 1984 or so. I fall in the 'he is actually a great/influential' writer camp. His work, to me, uses genre as a vehicle to recognize things about American life and culture that are important. They are also fun to read.
That's amazing! A chronological read through of Stephen King is so much fun. You've read some cracking works if you're in the 1980s at the moment. Which ones stand out as your favourites, Jonathan? And do you include the Bachman books? :)
@@BenjaminMcEvoy Thanks for the reply Ben!
I would say just about everything of his that I have read so far has a floor at 'good' with a 'ceiling' at 'great'. I would put Salem's Lot, The Shining, The Stand, and The Dead Zone (plus Night Shift) all at the top. Which is pretty amazing considering that was all in sequence. I am not sure how he is seen as a short story writer but I think his short story work is really strong.
Also really liked Danse Macabre. You always hear about 'On Writing', but I think Danse Macabre is very valuable as a gateway into horror in other mediums. It lead me to read Ghost Story by Peter Straub, which I found to be pretty amazing.
From the more recent-ish (for me in the chronology), Pet Semetary was maybe the darkest story I have ever read. Also happened to be very good. And I did include Bachman: good for a change of tone/pace, particularly liked The Long Walk and The Running Man.
Stephen King is a great writer in my opinion!His stories, apart from being witty horror, are life stories(The Shining is a good example and also Pet Sematary).Also, The Stand is a masterpiece with quite an interesting idea about morality, human condition and human nature!
I wouldn’t say it’s a masterpiece but it’s ok
@@TheCazz1960This boy is best to be ignored. I argued with him on a separate video and he's not one to take valid criticism about King. A crazy fan. King could publish his shopping list and this kid would read it.
@@TheCazz1960no, it's a true masterpiece
I loved his book on writing/autobiography. To say he started at the bottom is a gross understatement. I went to journalism school. To me he writes like a good reporter. He gets you into his story very quickly and deftly. He doesn't waste words.
Will he be Michelin star, I think so. He writes children as well as anyone and better than most. The Body is great. He also writes women well, Delores Claibourne. I think The Stand and The Dead Zone will be read long after he and we are gone. I love his short stories, he follows in the foot steps of Shirley Jackson, Patricia Highsmith and other great short story writers. I love Ten O'Clock People. Plus, he is read. The staying power of popular writing like Charles Dickens, Arthur Conan Doyle and Agatha Christie assures King's legacy.
Nice comment. Children, women, the working class - these are definitely some of King's strengths. I was watching the Netflix reboot of Shirley Jackson's 'Haunting of Hill House' just last night (quite different from the novel) and couldn't help but think surely Stephen King is indebted to this lady. Sure enough, I looked it up, and he has gone on record praising her very highly! And nice trio - Dickens, Conan Doyle, Christie - that is King's tradition.
My favourite Stephen King would be Carrie, Salems Lot, The Shining,The Stand, It, Misery, Dalores Claiborne, The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Bag of Bones, The Talisman Duma Key , Lisey's Story, Different Seasons and The Dark Tower series.
Very nice. All solid choices. I read Bag of Bones when I was younger and remember enjoying it as a nice change of pace for King. Different Seasons was also a favourite of mine, along with Misery. Kathy Bates and James Caan did a tremendous job with that.
Stumbled upon your channel, really glad I did. Looking forward to watching more videos because I've enjoyed this one quite a lot.
Thank you, Tamara :) I'm so happy to have you here!
Stephen King reminds me of Anthony Trollope, Agatha Christie and Wilbur Smith. Huge amount of output, nearly all of it good or very good. Hard to say which of these authors will still be read widely 100 years from now. There's a lot to be said, however, for solid B-plus/A-minus writers in whose works you can lose yourself for YEARS, particularly as a teenager not yet ready for hardcore literature.
Stephen King is one of two authors for whom I always buy the hard cover the day it hits the bookstores. He is a fabulous storyteller. If I had one book of his to put into someone’s hands it would be It. Despite its length, I’ve completed multiple rereads of It.
I'm so curious to know - who is the other author? :)
@@BenjaminMcEvoy Ah, not necessarily great literature but such good reads … John Grisham
Sai King is my favorite living storyteller. His universe and how it interconnects with ALL his books (and even with himself while recovering from his accident) in so many intricate and occult ways is truly something I have never experienced with any other author's body of work. When you say literature is saying something new, or something in a new way it seems to fit King. Now I am not super well read (trying to change that always) but I can't think of anyone who has accomplished this or even tried. Anyone else of this opinion?
Lovecraft.
I agree with you completely.King has achivied something in literature no other writers had ,the kingsverse ,the different genres,the singularity of his characters ,such a fantastic storyteller
11/22/63 is probably one of the best books ever written.
Prolific! I've read a few, as to read them all would be too much for me. On the contrary...I think he _does_ delve deeply into the psychology of his characters, for instance Arnie in _Christine_ and Jack Torrence in _The Shining._ Of what I've read, I'll take _Christine._ And I think much of King's literature will live well into the future, as _Christine_ (the car) does. King's immensely popular; perhaps that's an unforgivable sin in the eyes of literary critics today.
I think it was Harold Bloom who suggested that to predict which of today's authors would be considered "great" by the critics of the future is a fool's game.
On Writing shows there's an amazing autobiography in there - I just hope he gets around to it
I like you, grew up like Stephen King books. They were the first "grown up" books I read in Middle school. Now, being older, I am immersing myself again in his works and reminded why I love King!
I think King definitely is a unique writer and iconic storyteller, you remember his stories long after reading them. If I had to choose which book to recommend it would be Green Mile.
That's a really good point. When I think Stephen King, I immediately think of a long line of very vivid stories - Carrie, The Shining, The Stand, It, The Green Mile, 11/22/63 - they all come back in startling focus. Green Mile's a great starting place :)
I think greatness in art requires time and comparative trends in said art, I quite agree that King is similar to Dickens in more ways than one but to me he is every bit equal to the acclaimed classic authors and time will rise him up even more. This idea of comparison is surface level though, just like someone who will claim that non-fiction is better than fiction of any kind to which I have and will always face palm because such an understanding is ignorant at best and downright foolish at worst.
@@BenjaminMcEvoy thanks, I have just discovered your channel as I was searching for insights and suggestions on Proust and so many other classic authors. I plan to delve into In Search of Lost Time in December and hopefully over the course of the winters I will immerse in the first volume and definitely I will implement your suggestions and create a process out of it.
I started King reading in high school with The Shining so that holds a high place for me with him. I found it interesting that you placed him relatively with Dickens who was a very popular read of his time as well. I have often thought that too. I don't read King any more because life is short and there are many good books I wish to get too, my list is too long, but I did enjoy the King books I read.
I know I’m coming in late on this but I’d love to see you rank Kings works or at least any that you’ve read to this point, I also appreciate how you made the differentiation between being great literature and being a good writer, too many times I see people state that if it isn’t great literature it’s worthless dreck. If I had to recommend a Stephen King novel for someone to start with that wasn’t a fan already I’d definitely go with The Dead Zone, I feel that it deals with themes of dread and impending disaster in a way that could interest any one Stephen King fan or not, keep up the great work you found a new subscriber in me.
If I were corralled into choosing, it would be Stand, Green Mile and Misery, in that order. Later, when I was commuting 2 hours each way, I got into unabridged recordings; fell in love with some of Dean Koontz's works as interpreted by actor Jay O. Sanders.
Great literature could be defined as a book that one has bought, read, enjoyed, and, thought it had lived up to expectations. Many readers, especially young readers would place J.K.Rowling at the top of their list. In my own bookcase I've enjoyed novels by Paul Auster, Nevil Shute, and David Lodge. It's each to their own.
I agree.
I've heard that Steven King was the "literary equivalent of fast food" Actually I've read a few of his books. I liked The Stand and Salem's Lot, but I prefer Needful Things
I loved Needful Things! I have fond memories reading it whilst off sick from school :)
Needfull things is an idea he got from the auctioneer Joan Samson (i think)
MY old writing teacher used to say great writing is either 'paragon or transformative. It is either the best of that way of telling that story, or changes it in a new way.
My view on king is that he is half way between these- he is good, but not the greatest in terms of horror writers, and while he doesn't change the game that much but the influence he has on the flow of writing going forward has. Thus, while the impact I think he has had will make him significant, but hard to classify as 'great. I would say that he will be remembered as a key influence of the greatest writers of our generation going forward. ( Also, In my view, being the ice-breaker for bringing in Magical realism to the English cannon in a big way)
That's a great way of putting it. I think you're bang on with that view, and very interesting about him shepherding in the magical realism strain!
Specific works of his (Carrie, 11/23/63, Doctor Sleep) felt like a movie playing in my mind.
I'm curious as to why you mentioned Murakami as a person who inspires others to become writers? I'm curious because he's my favorite author along side Yukio Mishima haha
Something I've noticed when speaking with writers - tons of them cite King and Murakami as influences. 'On Writing' alone must have forged thousands of budding writers. And Murakami made the art seem within the reach of ordinary people. Yukio Mishima is tremendous. You might like the Hardcore Literature episode about him - I had fun with that one :)
Murakami also has his own "On Writing", which is very worth checking out. He talks about how he started writing, his writing process and what his life as a writer is like. It's called "Novelist as a Vocation" and it's pretty inspirational!
Definitely would like to see a ranking. I’ve yet to read any King, but want to. I tried reading The Stand multiple times and really enjoy some passages and find myself bored by others. Wondering if it’s really worth the 1000+ page effort.
It is. You may find yourself slightly disappointed with the ending (I think the endings are often the weak points of King's novels), but it is a terrific story and a masterclass on character development.
Interesting you should say 2 things I think about King's writing, that he poses what if scenarios. 'what if when you hit delete on the computer keyboard, the object is deleted from the universe', but he also makes me want to write. I wonder why that is, no other writer does that for me, not even Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams, I just wish there were more Dirk Gently and more Discworld, but I don't think I could ghost write one of his stories, nor could I write a King story, so I wonder why King makes me want to write. Very curious.
King is the writer that got me into reading after completing my A Level when my English teachers told me the only thing worth reading as an adult were classics- and I hated them. I eventually found a worn out copy of Misery and read it cover to cover in a weekend and have gone through loads of his works since then and actually got back into classics off the back of him. If I were to recommend a King to a newbie it would have to be the shining- it’s short, doesn’t go off on too many tangents (I’m looking at you It) and is just all round great
Great analogy as to food. I even try to read according to a “plate method”: mostly veggies with some sides and a rare dessert.
"You don't want to adapt great literature. You want to adapt mediocre literature and make it great."
-- Stanley Kubrick
Beautiful quote! Ha - was Stanley Kubrick flipping Stephen King off when he said that?
It's kinda funny considering he adapted 'Lolita'
@@kiwi7051 Ha, that is hilarious.
Stanley was honest.
@@kiwi7051 He also adapted Barry Lyndon from William Makepeace Thackeray.
I just noticed the location below the video: Bangor, Maine. Good one, Ben :)
Haha ;)
Enjoyable and insightful take on Stephen King. My favourite by far is The Stand, such a gripping read
Thank you, my friend. 'The Stand' is superb! :)
Like so many others, King made me a reader. And although I would by no means count him among the all time great authors,
I always like to return to his world. Whether with a reread or a new novel. That's more than most horror writers can do for me.
I even find that sometimes, within his work he manages, if only for a sentence or a sequence, to reach absolute magnificence.
For example, when Louis Creed digs up his son - I hadn't read anything like that before. In his macabre way, yes, but not in this mixture of love and madness. And this scene hits again differently as an adult. Great.
To expand on the gustatory analogy. Stephen King is comfort food. It's highly satisfactory while still being nutritious. I think King doesn't desire to write Great literature. He knows his craft, and enjoys the process and it shows.
I loved this breakdown. I really can't quibble with your criteria. I often think of films in this manner. Some movies say something unique in a completely new way, but so many are completely forgettable dreck.
I think King is one of the great short story writers. His short work rarely misses. His novels, however, are hit or miss. His newer work is laced (obsessed) with political commentary. Sadly, I think his angry Twitter obsession seeped into his work. That said, I think he’ll be remembered for a long time due to, at the very least, his massive influence on a couple generations of young writers.
After many years of thinking that Stephen King was not for me, I also started a read-through of his work in publishing/chronological order about a year ago. My goal has been to get through about one of his books a month. I have read up-through Firestarter and so far, two of my favorites by him are Dead Zone and The Long Walk. Of the first 10 or so of his books that I have finished so far, if I had to pick one that would "transcend time" it would have to be The Long Walk. Besides the fact that it has inspired many novels and movies of today, I also think that King is at his best when he focus on shorter, simpler stories dealing with one or a few characters. The simplicity of the setting and format of the story really forces you to focus on characters and their struggles/motivations.
I suppose that Roadwork will be my next one in the coming weeks. Which of his works are you currently on?
Very nice :) Dead Zone is one of my personal favourites too - top 3 for me. I'm actually still on Carrie for this read through. I dip in and out every few days, with some of my other reads taking precedent at the moment. I'm also thinking of collecting the first editions as I make my way through - Salem's Lot up next I believe!
I've always been a King fan, and The Long Walk is possibly my favorite.
Also, I don't think "saying something new" is something crucial nowdays. I mean, there's always some degree of "new" in many books, and chasing for "newness" is something that preventing authors from writing just great and honest books alongside with chasing for market and popularity. My deep belief that just as in music - most beautiful and interesting things happen usually not in the best selling shelf of the bookstore.
If you compare it with food - it's like maybe simple (maybe not) home-cooked meal. Nothing exactly "new" globally but it's creative and fits you ideally and it's new every day for you.
Will he be ranked among the great, I don't think so, but he has merit, I don't think he will be forgotten either.
He has flashes of brilliance here and there, he is time and time againg succesful in making strange, and in the end he writes about people, the most interesting aspect of his books is never the plot, it's the characters.
Great comment - completely agree with you, Omar.
I visited a poetry class briefly and one of the things said there was that "Since Homer, everything has been said. What matters is HOW you say it." I used to read King as a teenager, till around the year 2000, afterwards he in my opinion started to run out of steam and I found different interests. He is invaluable as a writer about middle America (middle class, provincial towns), a treasure for ethnologists that describes the American world before the Web and mobile devices came along.
I think it would be fun if there were a British adaptation to 'Misery', set in an English small town.
That would be awesome!
I think Kings artistry comes through in some of his short works like The Body, nobody writes child characters more believably than King; and I would say some of the novels where supernatural is downplayed, like Green Mile. The relationship between the Frenchman and the mouse- just wonderful. Love your vids, Ben,
You British as being such sports people have an eccentric inclination for ranking and charts. How likeable!
I’d binge read some of his books, dragged along by the plot, the horror he nicely can produce bubbling up from below the apparently nice surface of middle class US America.
I remember I quite enjoyed to reading “Needful things” but I couldn’t remember much detail. The film “Shining” I watched several times, my main attention to the stunning actor.
I think it is good to have this author writing. Maybe I should read his books again with the techniques I learned from you. I guess he can teach us something about our subconscious. The archetypes.
Ha - I didn't realise this was a British preoccupation? But, yes, I've always loved ranking, comparing, making lists. Oh, Needful Things kept me company on one of those seemingly too-frequent sick days from school. The Shining film was the first film that truly terrified me, but quite a different story from the book. One of my favourite Kings, perfect airplane reading, is the lesser known novella 'Langoliers' - super creepy stuff. David Foster Wallace taught Carrie in his English Lit classes, but after reading the classics deeply, King's writing doesn't seem to hold up to the same reading as one might give, say, Tolstoy or Austen.
A ranking of King's books would be great!
I see what you're saying and I think you're right. Stephen King is my favorite author but I really don't have that much exposure to literature in general. I think he's an amazing storyteller and I think his characters, while they may not be psychologically complex, at least feel very human and relatable. And I would recommend Salem's Lot to start with King, where you get a really well done small town as well as some fun spooky stuff.
Its really a shame that Stephen King is consider only a horror writer. We, constant readers know him as an exceptional storyteller that focuses on the human condition. He writes stories that take place in a different generation (that he experienced as well), focusing on a different gerne. Be it horror, drama, mystery etc. No author that i am aware of can do that.
Ive read dozens of classics and i believe them to be overrated (in terms of their literally value). And ofcourse they are far from reaching that level of variety and depth on the human behavior. They focus on a specific subject, expand on it and its ideas. And thats that.
Try reading Dolores Claiborne, Hearts in Atlantis, The Green Mile. You will be surprised.
I’ve started reading through King in theb7th grade. I CANNOT imagine reading The Stand while being sick!!!! You’re a braver man than I!
The definition of "great literature" has been thrown around so frequently, it has almost lost its meaning. Or, perhaps, its meaning is so vast, mainly due to literature's vast history. But on to why I am commenting here. While I enjoy Stephen King's novels, they are far better than average but, like you said, I'm not reading Tolstoy or Shakespeare when I read King. However, where King excels is in his novellas and short stories. In fact, I'd go so far as to say he has written one of the better novellas of the 20th century, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. In fact, the collection of novellas titled, Different Seasons, has some of King's best novellas. According to your definition of "great literature," King at least gets to the heart of presenting something that has already been said in a new kind of way, with these stories. For decades, Dickens was accused of being a "popular" writer and was dismissed. This changed at around the turn of the 19th to 20th century. I had a literature professor who actually called Dickens a "hack" comparing him, in a substantially negative light, to other writers of Dicken's day. This same professor said the same thing about Dumas and Hugo, go figure. I completely disagreed with this professor. The same things have been said about King, so who knows what time holds for his work? It would be cool if you did a video of how we can know objectively, what is "great" literature? There must be some kind of objective way to approach literature to determine this, perhaps? There is a way to do this in music, so maybe literature can be judged in a similar fashion.
Yes, you should rank his books. At least your top 10 would be great to see. Pet Sematary is a good novel to start, Night Shift is perhaps his best collection of short stories to start with.
I think his characters come very close to peoplehood on occasion. I find real emotions conveyed in some of his books. I think Pet Semetary goes beyond horror and brings a deep spirit of sadness, more than I have discovered in any horror story I've read. So, I'm not sure how I feel about where he falls on the literary scale. It's not always just the story he is telling. And no matter how many worn out thematics he plays with, he seems to bring them to a slightly higher level. Having said that I feel compelled to share this; you see a friend of mine has a theory about King which I tend to agree with. He goes galloping along until he notices the book is getting too long and he abruptly brings it to an end, which I guess is my friends way of saying that King doesn't develop his ends as well as his beginnings and middles. I am left often wishing that the last of the book would be just a bit longer.
Dostoevsky pub food?!?!
Have you read the Brothers Karamazov?? I don't see any videos by you on the book. You have lovely opinions and I regard them indubitably. I surely hope that book changes your view.
Your channel is wonderful, thank you for all that you do!
This has been the most inflammatory comment I have made to date, it would seem. Dostoyevsky is a master writer and I've had some wonderful meals in pub establishments. But you're very right, his mature masterpiece should elevate him well above that. Thank you for the kind compliments :)
@@BenjaminMcEvoy fair dude! Fair!
I'm patiently awaiting for your Brother's Karamazov video if it ever comes 😁
Would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on his definitive masterpiece (;
@@BenjaminMcEvoy I'd recommend Robert Belknap's The Structure of The Brothers Karamazov if you want to understand the Michelin level intricacies within the novel.
“Susan hated Literature. She'd much prefer to read a good book.”
― Terry Pratchett, Soul Music
Beautiful quote from Sir Terry!
Yes! I love you love Stephen King: did you finish all his books in chronological order? He is definitely my favorite story teller.
I’ve started with Desperation when I was 16 and a fan ever since.
I’d pick Misery as the perfect book to start with.
I just joined the Hardcore Litature Book Club - so I’m going to make time to read his books chronologically. Hope to see a video where you rank them!
Waiting on the ranking video, Ben!
I’ve always thought this when it comes to literature and great literature: if you consume fast food everyday for the entirety of your life, you will die. But if you seldom indulge in the easy stuff, the stuff that delivers quickly and efficiently, then it’s not so bad. I believe writers like Clancy, Patterson, and especially King, are writers who deliver most like a Wendy’s or McDonalds. People should always read, so I believe. It nourishes you in ways, and sustains the style you so wish to lead. But if a reader only reads what is most accessible to them, what’s quick and provides little to no substance, then your life will not be as rich. Besides all the great writers mentioned, readers should branch out and tackle the Melville’s or the Camus’s. Read something challenging, something old, or something odd (apart from King-style odd), and like that kale, broccoli, beet smoothie, you will feel better for having done so. That’s the only promise one reader can make to another.
Have you read any of king’s book ? If so you wouln’t say it’s fast food ,it is real literature
I would definitely agree with your characterization of King and I would love to see your ranking of his body of works. I’m on a bit of a Stephen King kick right now. Also, when suggesting to someone their first Stephen King book, I’d recommend to them either Carrie or Salems Lot depending on the person.
"On Writing " is the best non fiction book
Don’t forget Delores Clybourne, that’s really one of his best in unveiling the story, as well as the subject matter
To me King is an entertainer. I did grow up reading many of his books and there are others that don't catch my interest to even attempt to read. but I found them to be fun, and, well , entertaining. I enjoy his short stories a bit more than his huge books and even some of them could be shrunken down a hundred pages or so to make them easier to enjoy. I believe his name is what helps put him on radar as The King of Horror and that has been misleading at times because he doesn't crank out horror at all times. Still, he has managed to keep going when most horror writers called it quits because the genre went to a crawl after the 80's.
I wouldn’t call Stephen King great Literature but a lot of the main characters in his books stick with me . The Datk tower is fantastic and does some amazing things with the concepts of the Hero’s journey , 11/22/63 is one of my all time favourite time travel books and IT captures the pain of the loss of innocence and the beauty of childhood in a way not many other people have. He doesn’t write great literature , true , but he does write great stories.
You mentioned Stephen King calls Bram Stoker as a big influence on his writing. He should also mention the TV series Twilight Zone; probably a third of his books are mirror images of episodes from that series which I imagine he must have watched when growing up. The above being said, I have plenty of his books and enjoy him quite a bit.
Stephen king is to great literature as Hans zimmer is to classical music. A highly enjoyable composer who employs some creative techniques here and there without doing anything too earth shattering. Love his music, but will he ever approach Beethoven, Bach, or (my personal favorite) Liszt? Most likely not, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth giving him his flowers.
I had a friend studying Music at Oxford, and she said a very similar thing, using the comparison of Einaudi. I adore Einaudi, but I understand that music students might not say the same thing. I agree, King's secured his place hands down, high up in the horror tradition.
I read 11/22/68 in high school and honestly that book seems like it has potential to become great literature
If you think it's great it's great. But in general, for something to be included in the canon of great literature, it has to stand the test of time. And we just don't know if King's books will do that.
I have a question! Do you have any thoughts on his point on overuse of adverbs in his book, On Writing?
I haven’t read many of King’s books and don’t really feel compelled to, but I am currently reading On Writing and it’s got great concepts but I find myself not particularly interested in areas where it’s the memoir side of things. Perhaps it’s just my upbringing and life experience that doesn’t crossover with his, but I find it really unrelatable with so many names and references I don’t really understand. At the same time, I think he wrote it for him, as an expression of his life and message on writing, in which case I think he’s achieved what he’s wanted to achieve.
I think what's interesting is Pet Sematary is the scariest book I've read, but as you pointed out King doesn't fit the definition of great literature that we tend to use. However, the Kubrick version of The Shining is regarded as a great film in some circles. Horror films have never received their proper credit, but why does it seem like horror novels occupy an even lower rung on the cultural ladder to many people?
King may not have produced great literature, but he is a great storyteller. My daughter won't read him because he scares the daylights out of her. That is a form of greatness in writing.
You did not mention 'Lisey's Story', did you? That one has the potential to be considered serious literature in the future.
Nobody else gives me that bittersweet ache of childhood nostalgia like Stephen King.
Found this channel a bit late but I would absolutely love this ranking. Kinda easy to find great literature online (Typical top ~200 recommendations will keep me busy for years), but I think I have a big blind spot for literature that isn't Michelin (and you can't always eat Michelin). Just really hard to find great, deep discussions & recommendations for these kinds of books and I would especially appreciate them from someone who clearly has a passion for high literature. Never read a King, where would I start? This goes for similar authors as well. I feel like it's very dangerous to go just by popularity. There are very, very bad books regularly in the top popularity spots. It's so hard to find "great stories that are not high art". So if you have some recs and more books you'd like to discuss that fit this, I'd absolutely love it!
My personal favorite Stephen King book is "The Stand"!
As a Mainer, a factoid: his used paperbacks are persistent high sellers in New England and in the US generally.
Enough want to own a 'complete works' of Stephen King!
Quite a compliment!
I enjoyed his 'how to write' which he has talked on at the local Longfellow's Bookstore.
He's fond of saying he's not Henry James. As a fan of the Master, I'm not sure whoelse is Henry James?
All serious writers have their place.
I'm amused at how there are still non-Stratfordians. When they can't believe one person put those plays together, then you(Shakespeare) have truly arrived
😂
I enjoy your work.
I agree with almost everything you said except on character. I think when King is at his best his characters are where he shines. When I think of his novels I think of the characters first and foremost.
My first Deep Author Dive was Stephen King. After the release of It Chapter II in theaters I decided to read all of King Chronologically. I was first gifted King's books from my Grandmother when I was in 8th grade, so I certainly was not unfamiliar. It took me three years and two months to get through his enormous bibliography; he published five books while i was reading. It was a fantastic journey and I think many of his books are masterpieces of horror. That said I think he is more than a pulp author. He is a genius of creating towns of people. In a few hundred pages he consistently creates a complete world of characters that populate an epic tale: It, The Stand, Salm's Lot, Needful Things. Under the Dome, 11/22/63 are great examples of this. Yet, his scariest tales usually have tiny casts. Pet Semetary, The Shining, Cujo, are generally considered among the most horrifying novels ever written. In addition I would argue, that Misery, Gerald's Game, Dolores Claiborne & The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, none of which have any supernatural elements, are the most frightening of all, as they exist in our world.
I agree w your point about King being "pub grub" vs "Michelin" - though he's profound in exploring a self-destructive psychological state - IMO Pet Sematary is his closest to great literature - it posits love as an addiction like his alcoholism - the hurricane of grief and loss is the cold turkey - and he follows this premise to its logical extreme, fearlessly - so the Sematary is a thought experiment that acts as a test and reveals this aspect of love's nature - still, I might rank King w Dumas, but not w people like Dostoevsky or Shakespeare
I LOVE Stephen King and I feel that his stories deserve a spot in literary history, but being honest, I feel that being so prolific and writing by the seat of his pants tends to give his writing pacing problems. This is specially noticeable in Salem's Lot (which is incidentaly one of my favourite books), where the story moves very slowly for two-thirds/three-quarters of the novel, and then the ending feels rushed.
I'm glad to see someone take this on.
Personally I've always defined good literature like this: tell me what it is about without mentioning any fictional people places or events. If a work is so self obsessed that it says nothing about real life that you can't talk about without referring to people in the story is probably not worth anyone's time.
And on this front Stephen king is an A+.
I would love to see a King ranking video!
We can do that :)
The beauty of authors like King and, the forgotten, Harold Robbins is that they get people to read.
I certainly don't think King is Great Literature (with a capital G and a capital L...!). I used to devour his books as a teenager, but kept only one, which still is in my library: Salem's Lot. A masterpiece coming from someone whom I don't regard as a master, but THAT novel. The atmosphere of it! When I read it for the first time (I was twelve if I'm not mistaken) I slept with my bedroom's window bolted and barred throughout a typically hot and sticky summer.
Spot on, and I couldn't agree more (although I strongly disagree with you putting Dostoevsky in the same camp as King). King can be a lot of fun at his best, and even has flashes of greatness. I've often said that he's a modern-day Charles Dickens. Fun, character-driven stories, but sometimes with a disappointing climax and/or a clunky ending.
I do think that Stephen King's best works are his short stories and novellas. There aren't many of those I dislike, and I've reread two paperback copies of 'Different Seasons' until they fell apart.
A couple of stand-out King novels...
1. 'The Stand' - As far as character development stories go, this is basically a masterpiece. It's not 'Anna Karenina', but all of the characters are wonderful, relatable, and thought-provoking. The ending was a bit anti-climatic, but this should be a textbook in character writing.
2. 'Hearts in Atlantis' - This is probably King's most profound work. It has shades of Cormac McCarthy, but written in King's down-to-Earth style. Definitely a must read.
3. 'The Shining' - Another wonderful character examination, with a clunker of an ending. But the meat of the story is absolutely fantastic.
4. 'The Regulators' and 'Desperation' - Probably not his best written work, but a very fun and experimental pair of stories. Worth a read if you haven't.
Would love your thoughts on the work of Peter Straub (RIP) who is much more consciously "literary" and experimental but just as compulsive and propelling a storyteller as King.
King is one of my favourite authors and has been since Carrie. I wouldn't say he's great literature, but yes, close to Dickins with his wonderful and memorable characters.
I've read each new King novel as it has been released and so feel like I'm on a journey with him.
I think his two most challenging and somewhat underrated novels are Pet Cemetary and Christine.
Pet Cemetery does, I believe, have something important to say about life, death, wanting, and the hearts desire. About a desperate need that turns horribly wrong because we don't think of consequences.
Stephen King himself would never claim to write great literature. Yet, many of his stories stick with me in a way that many examples of great literature do not. His ideas are pervasive and widely influential. And his stories often have such heart. Sure, I've read Madame Bovary and The Stranger, Othello and Tess of the d'ubervilles. But none have touched me as deeply as King.
I hate how people use his books or writing style as an insult.
Like saying "he makes tolkien look like stephen king."
Its very disrespectful since king wrote alot of great books like the green mile, the shining, carrie, dark tower series, and of course IT.
He may be a pulp writer most of the time but his genre fiction is what makes his stories so interesting and fun to read compared to other writers.
Im not ashamed to say that i rather read king than james joyce or proust.
Adverbs are not the writer's friend. - Stephen King - ' On Writing.' guess J. K. Rowling never came across that writing tip.
When I saw your video synopsis of whether King was a great writer, I immediately chuckled & thought I HAVE to watch this video. LOL. And of course, you eloquently explained your position. And I agree.
I think too, another factor of whether people regard a book as great is people's natural "bent' as it were. Example, I am hardly ever a fan of fantasy or horror... as a reader.(Though one of the most beautiful books I ever read was Stoker's Dracula...at least the 1st 2/3 of the book). In movie format, however, I'm much more open to it.
A classic example of fantasy I've read is Tolkien. I read The Hobbit. Enjoyed it well enough. Definitely opened up a world to me I'd never really imagined. So then I read the 2nd book of the LOTR trilogy. Still enjoying, being taken away into the world of...well...you know. THEN, half way through the 2nd book of the triology, I threw the book down & said ENOUGH! LOL. You see after a while, for me, it was just more of the same.
Frankly, Richard Adams' Watership Down, for me anyway, achieved most of what Tolkien's myriad of books attempted and did it in one book. LOL. Oh I know, I'm spouting blasphemy ( or is it blaspheme?).
And what drives me crazy about fantasy is there are no rules. So any plot twist can just be made up out of whole cloth to get the characters out of a given situation, so at some point, I'm thinking, oh this is just silly. But again, my tolerance for fantasy/horror in books is limited. People say to me but aren't you dazzled by the imagaination of it all? And I say no. LOL.
Children can come up with incredible imaginative situations simply playing in their own backyard (or "garden").
Actually I think it's much more of a challenge to write an imaginative book that is forced to deal with the constructs of reality. Put your character in a complicated situation & THEN get them out of it (or not I suppose) knowing you can't just say: "Then the wall dissapeared and I stepped into an enchanted land..." type of thing. I suppose that's why, for me, fantasy/horror works best when the work is kept within a limited amount of pages. Alice in Wonderland anyone? For time travel, Daphne Du Maurier's The House on the Strand is one of the best pages turners I ever read. I could not put that book down. But if it had been a trilogy, I suspect I would have started screaming at the book to END it already.
Have I contradicted myself? Love Dracula...not so much LOTR. Well........
I tried to read King. Everyone said THE STAND is one of his best. After 175 pages, absolutely nothing is going on...I recall someone started to get the "sniffles". The writing itself isn't holding me. One doesn't get the sense that King is agonzing over every sentence, shall we say?
BUT, and this is very important, if your natural inclination is to enjoy the kind of subject matter that King writes about then I suspect, the old adage, in for a penny in for a pound applies to you. So is King great for YOU? Probably and if that's the case, how does MY opinion of King affect you in any way? It doesn't.
Why can't writing be like food? There's the popcorn of the food world and there's the chicken marsala and both, I dare say, have their place at my table.
I really liked your analysis of what constitutes good or great literature. May I ask have you read Diana Gabaldon books 📚???
You hit the nail on the head. Steven Kings characters are all Steven King. The fast food analogy as well. I grew up chomping down on King. Very digestible. Beep beep.
I will add that, amongst his great story telling there are just some really tedious reads.
Oh, my golly. I actually felt a sense of relief that your estimation was comparable to mine. It would be entirely possible and perhaps desirable to assemble a collection suggesting King is an important US author; that volume would be deceptive.
(King is an important writer to me but I haven't been able to enjoy his work since I learned to write myself.)