China Problem: Is Shang-Chi's Future In The MCU In Trouble?
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
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Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021) - Shang-Chi, the master of unarmed weaponry-based Kung Fu, is forced to confront his past after being drawn into the Ten Rings organization.
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Rob just wishing that John would get to the point so we can all go home.
I like the content on this show, but John does take really long to get to the point.
Totally. John: if you read these comments, please learn to get to the point quicker. It is what stops me from subscribing. As long as you took to get to the question to Rob at 6:35 you could at least have stopped there, but you kept going til 7:24. It is crazy irritating to watch.
OMG I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this! I hate it when people ask long-winded 10 minute questions!
@@Theinspirationalrogue
Disney: doesn't give a damn what China thinks
Also Disney: changes a line in _Iron Man 3_ about the United States being the most powerful nation *in the West*
Also also Disney: downsizes John Boyega in _The Force Awakens_ movie posters
@@kjhuang also removes the lesbian kiss at the end of the last Star Wars movie. They care more about China than anywhere in the world that isn’t North America. Look at how they grovel at the feet of China anytime they get upset about anything. They minimize characters roles and add scenes and remove scenes all the time to appease China. John Cena was fucking laughably crying and looked like he had a Warner Brothers gun to his head while speaking Chinese in an apology because he stated a fact about Taiwan being a country. Lol
As an Asian American, if they leave Shang chi out of future avengers movies, after essentially promising us that he is now an avenger, that would represent a massive betrayal in my opinion.
He's far too powerful with the rings to not be an Avenger. Marvel has already tied the future of the MCU to that character.
@@Lexyboogie I hope you’re right.
bruh, I 100% agree
@@JG-bx1rc I understand your worry, but trust and believe there's no way Disney would be that stupid to alienate the Asian American community like that. They would basically be asking for worse problems if that happened.
They can delay Avengers movies and just do limited mash-ups without Shang-Chi. My guess is that they will continue Shang-Chi's story through Disney+ shows (which don't play in China). They will probably add other non-Chinese Asian or Asian-American actors to their other movies like F4 to appease Asian Americans
Marvel could completely change their plans and films, and China could still say, "No thanks."
Exactly. They just recently cracked down on video games and BTS. Anything could be next, maybe even superhero movies in general. Just treat the Chinese market as a lucky bonus at this point, but there’s no point in trying to overly appease them.
@@jchandlersabeast Like Mulan did, even though it tried very hard to cater to the CCP.
@@bigheadrhino China is cracking down on gaming hours for kids under the age of 18, because video games can be addictive. Other addictive activities like _smoking, drinking, gambling_ are also forbidden for kids under the age of 18-21 (varies by region across the world) so the Chinese government is restricting video gaming hours for kids under 18 in the same way as other addictive activities. Adults over the age of 18 aren't affected by the government's gaming hours restrictions.
神州 Shenzhou yes, I know. I wasn’t making a value judgment, I was just pointing out how dramatic sweeping changes can happen anytime, so there’s no need to overhaul the MCU if Shang Chi gets banned.
@@bigheadrhino Yeah, you make a good point. Especially since once they realize they have that sort of power over you they'll get harder and harder to appease.
I will be disgusted with Marvel if they do that, Simu should be apart of the MCU
Remember, you're dealing with a country that controls how many hours children can play videogames. Not their parents, but the government telling them what to do.
Be careful. Trolls in this chat defending the government of China 🤣🤣🤣
Video games can be addictive. Other addictive substances/activities like _smoking, gambling, drinking alcohol,_ are also forbidden for young kids or teens under the age of 18-21 (varies according to region), so why can't China implement restricted gaming hours for children? Adults over 18 years aren't affected by this restriction towards gaming.
Less video game is probably not a bad thing. Students can have more time to learn how to be writers and film directors, etc.
@Sunny Sunny Yes, many Chinese parents are under the impression that teaching their kids piano and sending them to private tuition after school will give their kids an edge over the competition when they grow up. China has recognized this problem especially in the education sector, so the government is cracking down on education center by banning teachers from teaching tuition after school hours.
I actually don't think it's the worst law in the world and I'm American. I've seen far too many cases of what videogame addiction can do to a child and their development.
The moment Simu bows down to China like John Cena, my support is done.
He won’t. It would be a betrayal of his parents to do so. Cena didn’t have that level of skin in the game.
@@hothotheat3000 True. It would be shocking if Liu did. Given his family's history
No, he has to bow down to American cooperation only
He was born in China and grew there until the age of five. I don't see a problem is he said he likes China.
Robs stern face and us navy t shirt while he listens to John is hilarious to me 😂
Kevin Feige has wanted Shang-Chi for a long time. Unless Bob Chapek overrides Feige, Shang-Chi is here to say.
You underestimate the power of the box office in China, see what happened with John Cena? Just as one example
@@chronogamer7901 John Cena was asked by Universal studios to apologize
For those who you dont know, the guy who translated the video in Chinese made his comments 10 times more aggersive than English. So i believe Simu was framed
That person has actually since apologized for the mistranslations. Also Simu Liu did an AMA on Weibo, which got him some points there in Chinese social media.
This is also true. The person who "translated" his interview didn't do it properly and the same individual apologized/deleted their account. I know a lot of Chinese foreign exchange students who really liked Shang Chi, so take that for what it's worth.
Good to know. This piece of information certainly adds a whole new dimension to this discussion.
The American media (and Canadian and other Western media) isn't helping the situation. I don't know if it's due to lazy reporting or if it's because they're trying to sensationalize things to get page hits. Probably a bit of both. Simu Liu's parents lived through tough times as kids when China was quite poor with an undernourished population, and Simu Liu was passing on that message... of what it was like half a century ago. This context is important IMO, but it is absent from most of the media reports. In addition, the fact that the original statements were mistranslated and that the translator has since apologized is also completely missing from Western media reports. Most of these so-called news sites don't seem to want to try to do even the most basic research into the subjects on which they report.
@@EugWanker Couldn't agree more
What do people think of Simu Liu's latest Instagram post? He doesn't address the issue directly but it's clearly about this. Below is what he wrote, quoted in full:
What Western news often fails to report on is the absolute groundswell of support that We've received from all parts of the world - including people from China!
All around us, media narratives are polarizing us and turning us against each other. But I have seen the kindness and the empathy that all people possess. And I know that we have fans all over the world who cannot wait to watch our movie and make history with us!
Whether you seek positivity or toxicity on social media... you will find it.
Thanks to all Marvel fans in China and all around the world! We love you!!
The comment that Simu made in the interview was indeed mistranslated and uploaded in weibo, and some Chinese netizens were supporting Simu by pointing out the mistranslation and the result of that the translator/uploader later apologized and delete their weibo account
I highly doubt Disney has the balls to tell another country that they won’t tell their actors and actresses what they can or can’t say for two reasons. One, we’ve seen Disney on various accounts lately viciously respond to or even fire their actors and actresses for speaking their own thoughts and opinions. Second, is that this country mind you is the same one that Disney has thanked for allowing them to knowingly shoot their Mulan film next to concentration camps. If I were the actor playing Shang Chi and I knew all this I’d be praying that my film does so well in the rest of the world that Disney can’t afford to replace me.
Yeah unfortunately let's say Shang-Chi does great like you mentioned, I feel like the numbskulls in Disney cooperate would just be like "if it makes so much money without China, imagine WITH!"
Since when was Mulan was film next to concentration camps? And what about films shot near Guantanamo Bay Detention camp for crying out loud?
@@Shenzhou. China kills Muslims. Prove me wrong
@@DistortedLens The population of Uighurs in China from 1953 to 2010 actually *tripled in size* from 3 million to 10 million Uighurs. That's because Uighurs aren't subject to the One Child Policy (unlike Han) so they can have as many kids as they want.
_Population of Uighurs in China from 1953 to 2010_
1953: 3,640,125
1964: 3,996,311
1982: 5,917,030
1990: 7,207,024
2000: 8,399,393
2010: 10,069,346
……
Source: _Wikipedia: Demographics of China_
@@DistortedLens You can’t be proven wrong. It’s a horrible fact. And it should be discussed more often.
As an ethnic Chinese, I will say this: if you look at the response from other ethnic Chinese in other countries, most of us like and support this movie. Even those who do not like this movie, it mostly has nothing to do with anything outside the movie, i.e. any political issues, controversy, actors' comments, etc... So I believe the common folk don't care about those stuff. It's political.
According to china, everything that they do isnt politically motivated at all like putting people in concentration camps isnt political, cracking down on pro-democracy rallies isnt political, claiming a peaceful democratic nation as ur own isnt political, killing indian soldiers at the border isnt political, stealing and cheating from US isnt political... basically they should do whatever they want and never follow the rules and if someone decides to stand up to the bullying they are the political ones...
@@magicmagus1459 China is currently *at peace and not at war* with any country, since our last major conflict in 1979. Instead of making war, China is building infrastructure like _roads, railways, highways, bridges, tunnels, powerstations, dams, ports, airports,_ etc and investing in developing countries like Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and also African countries like Nigeria, Kenya, Chad, Sudan, Ghana, Mozambique, Tanzania, etc.
Whereas the United States is *warmonger* being involved in Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghan War, Libyan War, Syrian War, Yemen War, etc, even in the 21st century. USA is bombing in those Middle Eastern countries and enacting regime change by cutting off their "heads" (Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, etc) and then installing their own US puppet governments in place.
Which country is the real threat to global peace and stability here?
@@Shenzhou. China has a border war with India. It is at war with all Southeast Asia countries for access to the South China Seas. It intends to take back Taiwan.
@@finned958 China and India are currently not at war, when was war between China and India declared, you tell me? When is China at war with all Southeast Asia countries? Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi is visiting _Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore and South Korea._ And Taiwan is part of China, what's wrong with China taking back what is ours, since you said _"It intends to take back Taiwan"?_
Seriously?? Do you NOT know the history of the yellow peril and the connection between Wenwu and Fu Manchu???
So… I personally think Shang Chi just became a Disney+ show. He will have cameos in films, but if/when they do Shang Chi 2, it will be on Disney+
Simu can’t walk this back without directly betraying his parents and their struggle. Bending the knee isn’t happening here the way we saw with John Cena.
That shit was an embarrassment, Cena crying and speaking Chinese to apologize and grovel at the feet of the CCP. Fucking gross to watch.
I think simu is too likeable a person. It would be difficult to drop simu in my opinion. Can't even imagine the backlash Disney will get for ditching him.
I can't envision that Disney would recast Simu Liu. They would get such a massive backlash from the hollywood community and the asian american/canadian community. From a brand image point of view, it would be a horrible decision to make.
I am a conservative, but I respect the heck out of Rob as a true liberal.
"True liberals" are neither rare nor quiet.
@@eldirtyfaygo5395 Just to be clear, I'm talking about Rob, not Jon.
‘True liberal’ - too funny! - Rob’s a major ‘buddy’ of the Alt-Right Fandom Menace because ‘their NICE ‘ to him, personally
If he’s willing to play their game and not stand up to their Nazi BS when it counts - he’s clearly NOT a ‘true liberal’ - in any way, shape, or form - to plug your nose with his FM Bros is just really repugnant!
@@trekkiedave7910 Right, because obnoxious You-tubers are the real problem, not genocidal and authoritarian regimes. Maybe you're right, perhaps the word "liberal" has become too tainted by Jacobins that have more contempt for fellow Americans with different opinions than actual evil like the CCP and the Taliban.
He talks nothing like a Liberal lol
Bruh this man had to wait 7 minutes for John to say the same question in different ways before he could respond lol
It’s an ongoing issue (repetition) that is stopping this show from becoming truly great….
5:12 If you are Bob Chapek, you would be reviewing your retirement plan, because you would have been sacked months before you had to 'deal' with the Shang-Chi situation - here's hoping!
Let's hope so but who's going to replace him?
@@fahriandikadir5799 They've brought in another guy to handle day to day activities next to Chapek. My hope is that he's being groomed to take over the position eventually.
So no story where an Asian character can thrive outside of China, got it. I understand the idea of business before moral stand, yet that business will involve promoting Chinese propaganda. I guess people like John is ok with that so long as it is profitable. And before people try to argue that is not what is being discussed, that is the logical conclusion to what is being discussed here.
John didn’t say he was okay with it. He said business is business and unfortunately a country like China is also the the second most important market and the most important foreign market for set business and the same reason why we have a lot of Chinese immigrants in America, is also the same reasons why they may not be able to shown or exposed publicly in China
@@spidavenom4 I already stated the logical conclusion to that train of thought, which is promoting and or creating Chinese propaganda. John has started in the past that he is a business man and that people who aren’t business men or women have no idea of what they are saying or are misinformed. Those statements lead me to believe he dose side with that practice because as a business man he would side on what is better for the bottom line and not a moral one. I don’t care I’m just starting the logical conclusion to what Disney will have to do to do business in China and point out those that support it like John. It’s their soul and piece of mind not mine.
@@josefonseca6144 Imagine the *reverse scenario* of Shang-Chi happening in America; that an American was disillusioned with life in American, and escapes to China and found that life was actually much better in China. Imagine the outrage from Americans like _"We live in the best country in the world, the Land of the Free, every immigrant aspires to come to America, why China of all places?"_
@@Shenzhou. we have had that film, the karate kid remake. Also crazy rich Asians.
@@Shenzhou. shall I continue with films that do it with other countries like in Caribbean (how Stella got her groove back) or Africa ( black panther) should I continue or have I shown the stark contrast between free speech and government controlled?
As a Chinese-Canadian in Toronto, I think the expectation has already been built in that Shang-Chi as played by Simu Liu must be in the next Avengers movie. There is going to be push back from the Chinese diaspora (much of which is in the West to escape the CCP). if Disney does not stand by Simu Liu,, and kowtows to Beijing, I expect a campaign to hit Disney's bottomline in the West. Corporations only listen to the $$$, but as the BLM movement has shown, you don't get to walk the line in the middle anymore. People will expect you, as a corporate citizen, to pick a side.
In any event, China is currently on a crackdown of both the tech and entertainment industries. Major Chinese stars are getting erased overnight on social media when they have done nothing to offend the regime. They just got too big. In this environment, China is going to demand more and more until you become their propaganda arm to get your movie shown. Reminds me of the restauranteur in Good Fellas who went to Paulie for protection and ends up losing everything, instead.
About China's crackdown on the tech industry, it's because in China, the Chinese government controls the state-owned companies for China's benefit. Whereas in the United States for example, the rich U.S corporations control the U.S government for war and profit at the expense of American citizens.
Take American monopolies for example, and _Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google,_ dominate their respective industries and eliminate competition from smaller American firms, stifling innovation through competition in the process. Whereas in China, the government is clamping down on anti-monopoly practices among Alibaba, Tencent, Didi, and so on.
Respectfully, the Chinese diaspora largely does not oppose contemporary China and the recent crackdown on tech and entertainment in China is not so severe.
@@dougdeveloper8850 they can stream but if they were to get caught, they would most definitely be punished; the state controls a lot of what the Chinese people can watch to limit their exposure any potential anti communism. To think there are people here in the United, States of America pushing for communism. It’s disgusting!
@@dougdeveloper8850 They have their own localized free (pirated) streaming websites. And most Chinese people have VPNs.
@@mcuthor7831 That's not true. They don't care what you watch unless you translate it into substantive action that destabilizes China. I question where you get your information from.
Hopefully China will just let it slide on this one but if it doesn't I don't want Dinsy to recast the character cuz that would be bogus for the actor 😥
Bogus for the story . It would take me out of it.
I'm half-Chinese. I've lived in China in the late 90's. Some parts ARE relatively "third worldy" compared to urban Canada at that time. Even compared to Hong Kong at that time. The CCP still has a lot of backward ideals/principles up to now.
John, there is a difference to a studio bending to public backlash as a posed to government backlash. I think you missed the mark there.
The second they start compromising artistic value for financial gain they will lose. Look what happened to the star wars sequel trilogy when they watered down the Finn character just to appease China and it it turned out to be one of the biggest flaws of the film series. Shang-chi is one of the most powerful characters now and you’re going to leave him out of the avengers? That would be like them leaving out captain Marvel in Endgame
*Hollywood makes fun of Asians, places them as antagonists in LOTS of films and even white washes Asian characters for decades*
China: I sleep.
*Disney/Marvel puts out the very incredible Shang chi and actor discusses his family’s history*
China: HOLD TF UP
I think China wants Hollywood to antagonist Asian, so that their people can have a common enemy as the goverment. You know "Frontism"
China would rather have Vin Diesel play Shang Chi than Simu Liu
Damn exactly lol
If Disney execs will replace Simu Liu, a lot of fans will be pissed that no one will want to watch a Shang Chi movie without him, including myself. That will be much bigger lost. To me Simu is Shang Chi, period.
not many will care. Hope he is recasted
Great segment. John put together an unbiased and well thought out argument. It's a difficult spot for Bob and Kevin, but this is why they're paid the big bucks. Got to figure it out.
In terms of China releated box office, their casting was a major blunder... 🤷♂️ They should have background checked deeply Simu Liu prior to final casting and considered China really if its market is really important to their movies
The only solution was to cast a Chinese actor, born and working in China
I hope he's in avengers. Haven't seen the movie yet since cinemas still closed where I am but super excited and hope to be around to see the build to another big team-up. (with Shang Chi). Don't budge if it comes to a choice Disney (Bob). Our integrity and respecting an individual's freedom to express themselves is more important than money. when we pass from this life, regardless of how rich one is people often speak about the person's character more than their wealth. The same for a company, the character of a company is what tends to keep people around and helps a business to thrive.
I haven't seem Shang-Chi yet but if Disney keeps Shang-Chi out of any Avengers movie I am going to be so angry. Disney, stop taking it in the ass for China!
I'm sure Feige was aware of Zhaoa and Liu's criticism of China before they were hired.
@@matthewk4912 it will be worse for him and Disney if they fired Simu or reduce his screen time just to lick China's ass. The Asian community in America is as tight as the black community and is not secret that wealthier too, be sure they will boycott them and even none Asian like me will be against Disney.
"What should they do? That's a tough question."
No, it's FUCKING NOT! They should stand by their actor, stand by their vision, and stand by democracy and human rights.
Well, the Eternals which is the golden egg of Marvel is directed by Chloe Zhao, so you’re already screwed in a major way.
@@Smallvillefreak it hasn’t become that yet because it not out yet but it’s described that way because Kevin feige won’t stop hyping it up
and also shang-shi was made with china in mind eternals was never goint o make endgame money in china anyway
@@Smallvillefreak Feige has crazy high hopes for it. Even if they don't break box office records, I'm sure he's hoping for some sort of awards nomination. Therefore, I'm sure he's hoping they'll be in future movies, and the more movies they're in, the more of a financial impact China issue will become.
I don't think the Simu/China situation will be a big deal going forward. I don't think you are factoring in Disney+ into your equation. The monetary windfall they stand to make from those monthly subscriptions makes them less reliant on the huge box office earnings they were dependent on in the past. Just as Netflix could care less about box office receipts, neither will Disney in relation to China. This allows them the freedom to take "risks" on Simu & Chloe without fear of retribution from China. So the next Avengers makes 2B instead of 2.5B. That money will be easy made from Disney+ as the initial reduced prices expire and they raise the fee to more industry standard pricing.
Don't overlook that if Disney were to capitulate to Chinese pressure and minimize Liu in any apparent way, it would have a backlash the other way with people like me. Understandably they are between a rock and a hard place. His role in an Avengers would likely be able to be clipped out for a Chinese version if anything, meaning he would never likely hold a pivotal role.
I think people forget they can re-edit/cut portions from films. He could be there, just in the back like most of the others in IW/Endgame...with his action portions cut/cgi'd out. Or shoot an alternate take with another character saying his dialogue if important?
They shouldn't have to, but still.
@@AndJusticeforAll567 Exactly, Hollywood has already accepted making Chinese versions anyway like with Dark Knight. The Chinese govt trends toward skepticism of any Western portrayal of Chinese culture. Not without reason but they are over the top when it comes to criticism as a government.
@@veritasagent7727 To Chinese, the Western portrayal of Chinese culture is like treating your newly arrived friend from China to American Chinese food. It's just not the same.
@@Shenzhou. LOL that sounds exactly like America
@@Shenzhou. China also portrays Western culture incorrectly all the time in their films.
If Shang Chi is in a future Avengers film, I think they'll end up making a China-specific version of the film. Where Shang Chi is not present at all, and scenes can be retooled to not need him. We saw them do this sort of thing for Iron Man 3, where entire subplots about China were added to the film to appease the censors, so they're willing to compromise for that
I think Disney will do what they did with other movies, and they will cast 2 versions. They will focus the Shang-Chi movie on Tony Leung, and make HIM seem like the star of the movie, and divert attention from Simu Liu.
It's interesting I understand not wanting to lose MILLIONS of dollars. Especially considering how it costs to make and market these movies. However, at does a company become uncomfortable being dictated to and call for their fans in other places around the world to support their stand.
It's a tough decision I don't know what I would do, but I'd like to believe I would stand with the people involved in creating the projects.
1/3 of the box office for endgame was china
Money speaks.
His comments were true at the time and to his family. China has a long history of famine events.
The Movie itself has Tony Leung in it, a BELOVED actor in China... I really doubt this is going to stick on Simu Liu. And the movie will just be cut enough to show a redemption arc to the father character (played by Tony Leung).
If you look at real news from China, the problem was not what Simu Liu said. It's about Mandarin character related to Fu Manchu.
Since Simu Liu’s comments comparing pedophiles to the LGBTI community… Disney will drop him and rightfully so 😞
Remember the John Cena situation for F9? Universal told his ass to apologize to China & he did.
But Simu comments were on his parents experience not about Taiwan being an independent country. He can't just apologize to appease the Chinese government because that would be disrespectful to his parents.
this is more than a comment, its part of the actor`s history and his parents experiences... Cena is not the first one to apologies for something to China, but with Simu seems personal, same with Chloe Zhao, its probably more important to them to stand by their believes
@@buffalogirl147 Youd be surprised what people would do for money( Not saying that he would)
If Disney punishes Simu Liu for speaking the truth about his parents' experience I will pirate the hell out of every MCU (I pay to watch in the theatre - multiple times each)!! At some point they have to tell China NO!!
Rob got dizzy from all the circles John was talking in
My fiancee is 3rd generation Asian American. It's a known fact that the Chinese government has shown disdain towards Asian Americans/Canadians. At times, the Chinese government and its state-run media have been antagonistic towards Asians in the West. They even called Simu Liu "ugly." They fear that seeing Asian Americans/Canadians thrive in the free West threatens their authoritarian ideology.
I want to see my man Shang in the Avengers.
I swear China is the most sensitive country ever. All it takes is one unfavorable sentence and you're "the enemy of the nation". This is getting ridiculous.
@@Allelujah19 In a way you are right, but that being said USA is more people refuse tk agree with one another while China disregards opinions completely.
US media only reports negative news about China. I'm surprised China would let any form of US media into the country.
They're like North Korea. If you say something about the country that is bad, you're DONE
We have freedom of speech here. Let's not include the fact actors are getting "cancelled". I'm talking non-hollywood human beings who live in the US. We have the freedom to say "f*** Donald trump" or "f*** biden". You can't do that in China 🤣
@@Allelujah19 not exactly
I did not know Rob was even there until I looked at the screen on my phone .
Who said the art of CONVERSATION is dead?….
Not like Hollywood are not trying to cancel some of their producers, directors, actors and actresses. It's a fair game.
What Simu Liu or his parents talked about was the China back in the 1960s, 70s. Not today, so please keep that in mind.
@@anerrantknight8077 Uyghurs are doing fine except a small group of radical Islamic extremists are going through a re-education process. Whatever else you hear from MSM is just a bunch of Fear mongering propaganda that is designed to launch cold war 2.0 against China. Without a new cold war, it is hard to increase profits for the military-industrial complex.
@@anerrantknight8077 I don't know if this small group of extremists is having a good time, I honestly don't give a shit since they have killed many Chinese civilians during numeral terrorist attacks against China in the past, at least I give the CPC credit for trying a different approach than just marching Into someone eles’ country and start bombing the shit out of everything.
@@waffen98 What do you mean by “Like The CCP care about that.”? You mean what Simu Liu said? Or what happened back in the 60s, 70s?
@@anerrantknight8077 Quite ironically, almost all the damage in HK city was done by those Anti-Mainland mobs. Taiwan would be a different matter, CPC has been trying to solve the issue with more of peaceful ways. You have to give them credits for trying, and they are still trying.
@@anerrantknight8077 HK is part of China , what the fuck are you talking about ? Taiwan too, part of China, The issue with Taiwan is this is an unfinished Chinese civil war waiting to be over, either by force or peaceful way.
This is such a sad reality we live in
Stand by Simu Lu and the right to speak.
I expect we will be hearing nice things from Simu Liu about China. Disney definitely does tell talent what they can and can't say in public forums, there are examples of that. I expect that this will blow over in a year or two.
Whats you re talking about?, Simu said that 4 years ago.
@@javiervasquez3077 yes, my guess is he'll be going out of his way to talk nice about China. Disney will pacify the officials and it will be ignored at that point. Just a guess.
I personally do not care what the Chinese government says, not sure what Disney will do but I hope they hold their ground.
Gaurentee over $200 million+. Disney only cares about money and $200M is a lot of money...
@@StinkySundae Oh I agree with you 100%, like they say money talks.
It's odd to me that people expect Shang Chi to perform well in China in the first place. It's a superhero movie yes, but it's a martial arts film imitating various styles of Chinese cinema. I loved Shang Chi but compared to the movies it's imitating, it's more than a little watered down in the themes, philosophy, etc in exchange for being made for a more western audience and go connect to the marvel universe.
I'm just saying, it might not have been that appealing in the first place there because it's thematically imitating the art of a country that, for their audience, likely does it better.
There is one thing that needs to be mentioned: China is still a thirld world country. There are 1.3 billion people in China, and out of those about 300 million are living the kind of lives we think all of China is living right now - that is to say relatively prosperous, with a high living standard. The rest of the population, a billion of them, are still living bellow the poverty line, with no running watter, tainted food, no clothes etc. That is why Simy Liu's comment is dangerous to the Chinese goverment, because he unknowingly was talking about something that is still happening in China, something that the Goverment does not want it's people to think about.
I love John I don’t know if you guys ever watch the new rock stores check it out. I was John because John goes into all the details and this is personal to help you can see in his eyes I love your channel brother keep on doing your thing love from West Palm Beach Florida
With Xi Jinping making capricious moves with the education and tech sector lately, it's really hard to predict which films get screened in China. I think it's probably in Hollywood's best interest to just make good movies. Predicting China's reaction to any one film is impossible. Otherwise as stated on other comments, there would be a lot of domestic and Western backlash.
China's crackdown on the education and tech sector have to do with the fact that in China, the Chinese government controls the state-owned companies for the benefit of China, reining them in when they strayed too far. However, in the United States for example, the rich U.S companies control the U.S government for war and profit at the expense of the ordinary tax-payer.
Take for example the American monopolies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, they dominate their respective industries and eliminated smaller American firms, stifling innovation through competition in the process. China's crackdown on Chinese companies like Alibaba, Tencent, Didi is anti-monopoly in nature, and targets anti-competitive practices in those industries.
The Marvel problem in and with China is bigger than you think. Not only did Black Widow not get a theatrical release, and it looks like Shang-Chi will not get any either. But Disney Plus is not available in China, which means Wandavision, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki etc. are not available for the Chinese market. Since all Marvel Studios shows and movies will tie into Phase Four and beyond going forward, the Chinese market will be harder and harder to break.
This is why marvel should've cast a real Asian actor
You guys are missing the point... The biggest reason is the connection of this movie to the history of the racist rant of yellow peril and the character of Fu Manchu.
While I don’t agree in a Studio telling an actor/actress what to say it’s a damn can of worms trying to tell them what they can dismiss or disavowed about what their family or parents experienced. That’s a bad backlash to a studio waiting to happen. Kids paying for the experience of their family essentially.
Sharon carter said it best in Civil War. "Compromise where you can and where you can't don't. Even if everyone is telling something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move it's your duty to plant yourself Shang Chi, look them in the eye and say WAAHHHH!!" On a real, she was right don't budge.
Disney could also go the kinda expensive route - have him in Avengers for US and rest of the world, but make special cuts for China without him. Like they had those special scenes playing in China for Iron Man 3.
As T’Challa said “I don’t care”
I like the fact that John is trying to be fair on this topic, many peoples just can’t wait to blame all the shit to China because of anti-China prejudices, but It is nice to see neutral view for a change. I am with you, John.
@@anerrantknight8077 CPC is the official government of Modern China, so yes, it represents China, it is China.
@@anerrantknight8077 It is irrelevant if you disagree or not, the regular people are the victims of racist hate crime, and the CPC is just an easy excuse, it is understandable because you can't be openly racist, so you have to find a political target to blame for this crime and there is no better target than the CPC.
@@anerrantknight8077 CPC is not perfect, and Most of the people who blame CPC for everything are just misled by the MSM, I don't blame them since they are living in a bubble created by the elite. But many anti-China trolls just don't dare to be openly racist, so they have to find a convenient excuse for it. It is simple as that.
@@anerrantknight8077 You said: _"Much like how we’ve been placing the blame for COVID19, it wasn’t against the people, but the CCP."_
Then why is Anti-Asian hate rising in the West? People of Asian descent are being the target of hate crimes, and it's not because they are communist party members, it's because they are Asian. Yet you claim it's anti-CPC not anti-China?
@@anerrantknight8077 The _Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism_ looked at police data from 16 major cities and found a *164 percent increase* in reports of anti-Asian hate crimes compared to this time last year.
maybe they will recast and get mark chao to play shang chi.
I don't know why this is news. China has been disallowing a lot of movies from releasing due to a variety of reasons and Hollywood has been making China cuts of their movies to specifically cater to the government. So, they can have still have Simu in an Avengers movie but only in a way that can be easily edited out for the China.
I think it all comes to money. If Disney say « look we want our movie to play in your country, we gonna take less from the box office or pratically nothing but our movie gonna get screen » Plus you make a press tour with Simu praising the country he had never seen yet during it and you got it
Why not just have Simu apologize, and even use this oppertunity for China to show everyone how's they changed or at least show Simu a good time while on a press tour.
If Marvel recast Shang Chi, there won't be a guarantee that Chinese netizen won't do the same thing like they do to Simu
I understand the business part of it but it still really sucks that there’s a possibility that Shang Chi might not be part of the Avengers films. I’m super interested in seeing him being part of the Avengers and it sucks that there’s a possibility of that not happening because the dictatorship in China can’t handle the truths told about their country. And just in case, I’m not defending the US government either, it highly sucks too.
There's a difference between a government sucking (USA) and being an authoritarian regime that locks its own citizens in "reeducation" centers.
@@BornForBBQ i know. I know China is worse and it freaking sucks that they might bend to China’s will
@@ithanvega How is China worst? China is currently *at peace and not at war* with any country, since our last major conflict in 1979. Instead of making war, China is building infrastructure like _roads, railways, highways, bridges, tunnels, powerstations, dams, ports, airports,_ etc and investing in developing countries like Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and also African countries like Nigeria, Kenya, Chad, Sudan, Ghana, Mozambique, Tanzania, etc.
Whereas the United States is *warmonger* being involved in Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghan War, Libyan War, Syrian War, Yemen War, etc, even in the 21st century. USA is bombing in those Middle Eastern countries and enacting regime change by cutting off their "heads" (Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, etc) and then installing their own US puppet governments in place.
Which country is the real threat to global peace here?
but we do not now if he was ever to be part of the avengers anyway i can guarantee that noon knigth will never be in the avengers
@@BornForBBQ This is how you know you're propagandized -- there's kids in cages at the border in the US. Do those not count or what?
If Disney actually submits to China and removes Shang-Chi or Simu Liu from the MCU. They better believe there is going to be major backlash among fans and the Asian community in America. As a Canadian, I know for a fact Simu Liu has a lot of supporters in Canada and I'm gonna assume the US as well.
@@waffen98 What are you talking about? I obviously know China doesn't care what the Asian community outside their country thinks. You might want to re-read what I wrote. I was saying that Disney not China, is gonna receive major backlash if they submit to China and remove Shang Chi or Simu from the MCU.
Rob said what I was trying to say. My thoughts were getting jumbled as I was trying to type before.
I'd like to think maybe China's economy is similar to ours and needs all the revenue it can get (of course they won't tell us that but still) and after sitting out for Black Widow and maybe they'd want to give their audience their Marvel Movie but maybe I'm just being naive and it's just wishful thinking
Hope I'm wrong! I always try to believe in the best possible outcome
If China does that, and Disney complies. I'm done paying to see their movies. I'll watch them other ways.
If they replace a actor for saying the truth that was 50 or 60 years ago then I am done with marvel and Hollywood. People always criticizes Bangladesh a third world country even in the Extraction. We got hurt Dhaka is very updated now. It's not a filthy place. But we didn’t hate one it. Now people are gonna say who cares about what Bangladeshi people says they are poor and all that stuff but we are also humans like chineese. We do not get offened in such little things bcz we know who we are amd we are proud of our country if someone goes abroad to have a better life we appreciat it we don’t hate on them. China Government is much mature and not kids they should understand
Have him apologize like John Cena.
If that doesn’t work, recast him but only for the Chinese edit.
Digitally face swap him with Winnie the Pooh.
Yup
They’ll probably edit him out of the Chinese version of avengers
Does it matter? Any studio that has a movie released in China only gets 25% of the Chinese box office. It doesn't make sense financially, but that is just my view. Fans of both Avengers and Shang Chi will be royally PISSED OFF if Simu Liu doesn't get a berth in the next Avengers movie.
I don't think Disney will make changes to Shang Chi or remove him as an Avenger, they will leave it to Kevin Feige to decide whatever it's best for the big picture plot. I just think big blockbusters will get a lower budget to make going forward with lower box office receipts because of Covid and uncertainty over China release. Black Widow was not allowed to be released in China and you can't try to formulate what can be allowed with certainty, you just take it out of the equation and make the budget adjustments, it will be a bonus if it gets released in China.
If they wanna be like that then their movies can’t play here straight like that😤
Marvel should stand by their people. It's not like Simu Liu said anything offensive, it was just true. Is Kevin Feige going to let Chinese censorship laws dictate his creative decisions?
Disney should do nothing besides whatever they were intending to do before this blew up. And budget for future projects on the assumption that it won’t be playing in China. What’s the alternative-no actor should ever utter anything vaguely negative about China in case they might one day appear in anything with world wide distribution?
Nah. They should recast simu liu
To be clear, China isn't demanding censorship in foreign movies. China is simply giving the choice of whether or not the foreign movies want to make a deal to profit off of China's people on the condition that they don't say bad things about China -- the country that the vast majority of Chinese people support according to multiple reputable polling. To put it another way, China isn't asking Disney/Marvel to come to China; Disney/Marvel is asking China to allow them into China. This isn't a matter of free speech or even of dictatorships; this is a matter of collective bargaining on the national scale.
Actually, China does in fact demand censorship in foreign movies. A lot of foreign movies are significantly edited before they are allowed into China.
@@EugWanker China does not demand censorship in foreign movies. Please read my full comment for the entire context of what I said. Foreign movies are not being censored by China outside of China. All foreign movies being shown in China are done so voluntarily and intentionally by their respective companies.
don't make superhero movies if you are too cowardly to stand up to an evil dictator
Which ever country that has the least piracy issues holds all the cards.
It's a very easy fix. What Simu Liu said about China was accurate for the time period he was referring to: during the 1950s-60s. All Chinese people know this. All Simu Liu needs to do is qualify his statement by saying something as easy as, 'China sure has come a long way and they're developing super fast now.' And then all that the Chinese censors need to do is extend an olive branch and allow Simu Liu to 'save face' by accepting his qualified, amended comment that is still accurate.
The real question is, do both parties want to fix this issue?
Do all Chinese people really know this, including young teens? ie. Do they go into great detail teaching in middle school how tens of millions of Chinese died in the Great Famine, because of policies implemented by the Communist government during the Great Leap Forward? I didn't think schools did, but I could be wrong. Perhaps things have changed in 2021.
Regardless, my understanding is that this is still a very touchy subject. People may discuss it on Internet forums, but it's a political minefield. Yes, what happened in the 1950s and 1960s was horrible and Simu Liu's parents' accounts are likely accurate, but the guy is a Marvel actor, not a Ph.D. in 20th century Chinese history. It could seriously backfire to have it brought up again front and centre on the public stage by a Canadian-raised movie actor representing a large US corporation. They would need to tread very, very lightly. Simu Liu has already side-stepped the issue with a post on Instagram celebrating Marvel fans in China and worldwide. I suspect he was advised not to deal with the CBC interview comments head-on because of the risk of blow-back, but perhaps his handlers will adjust their strategy as time goes on.
@@EugWanker Hi, thanks for your comments. Please refer to the below (tl;dr, I agree):
"Do all Chinese people really know this, including young teens?"
To amend my original sentence, 'the vast majority of Chinese people know it.'
"Do they go into great detail teaching in middle school how tens of millions of Chinese died in the Great Famine, because of policies implemented by the Communist government during the Great Leap Forward?"
In school, they do not learn the details because obviously the CCP is the CCP. But this is something that the vast majority of Chinese people either learned firsthand or through the older generations of their family. Moreover, VPNs are near-ubiquitous among Chinese youth and that is another realistic venue for them to learn. The key point here is that the vast majority of Chinese people know what happened, and they also know what happened after. In the full context of China's contemporary history, the Chinese people still view the country and its governance in a net positive light. So if Simu expresses this full context, he is sure to get the approval of the vast majority of Chinese people.
"Regardless, my understanding is that this is still a very touchy subject."
It is a touchy subject, but this does not preclude the vast majority of Chinese people from knowing what happened to a sufficiently accurate extent, and it also does not preclude people from commenting on this subject in its full context.
"but the guy is a Marvel actor, not a Ph.D. in 20th century Chinese history. It could seriously backfire to have it brought up again front and centre on the public stage by a Canadian-raised movie actor representing a large US corporation."
I agree. If they do decide to address this head-on, maybe only after this movie is confirmed to be banned, then they will need to do it with utmost tact and probably in a backroom first. I think the interview where Simu said this was actually deleted prior to Shang-Chi's premiere, but some nationalist forums in China dug it up again. Seems like only the nationalist demographic in China wants this to explode.
"I suspect he was advised not to deal with the CBC interview comments head-on because of the risk of blow-back, but perhaps his handlers will adjust their strategy as time goes on."
Yeah, I just hope that this movie will eventually be shown in China lol. These days, we need more things that bring people around the world closer together.
Thanks for your comments.
@@unifieddynasty The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, not Canadian born Chinese) claims the video was lost along with a bunch of other similar clips from other Canadians due to a technical glitch. I don't know if this is really true, but nonetheless that's what they claim. However, as you may know it's still available out there on the internet like on Instagram, so I extracted a copy of it out of interest's sake. Anyhow, for the others who might be reading this: I can understand how someone might be offended by it, esp. if taken out of context. It's accurate, and in reality not that much was said, but it was not the most tactful. He could have said the exact same thing but with a better choice of words and it would've been easier for most to accept. One might attribute it to youthful ignorance, but it's harder to do that for a 28 year old of Chinese descent with aspirations of stardom, than for say an average 18 year old. After this experience, maybe Simu Liu will go easier on Bob Chapek the next time Chapek has a small slip of the tongue...
If Marvels replace Shang Chi with Wenwu. I am sure China will give a green light.
The next Avengers film will have two cuts:
1. Worldwide cut with Shang-Chi.
2. China cut without Shang-Chi and Sam Wilson as Captain CCP...in white face.
Hope so
Rob had that look like “what did you say about my momma?”🤨👊💥
The fact of the matter is that the current Chinese government has a clear agenda to limit Hollywood movies especially involving Chinese culture. Placating to their wims will not do anything to change their minds. They are currently trying to police their own actors who are not actively praising the current regime. As for Shang Chi being a part of the next Avengers movies he could be a part of a west coast avengers, agents of atlas, or hero for hire movie or D+ show. But don't think that Fiege didn't know about this interview and the potential backlash.
Hey John, if China wants to cherry pick films because of its communist ways then I believe they should also not be upset at the repercussions when large studios start pulling movies out completely.
No one want to upset China cause there’s all this money to be made there but if these companies completely pulled out China would be forced to change their policy’s if they wanted the goods and services. They already take American products and slap a different sticker on them to make them seem as if the Chinese invented and created the item. They have huge human right violations going on, and their whole economy is propped up thru the government pushing money because the economic structure they believe in doesn’t allowed for actual real growth. They literally build whole city’s and they’re left abandon
Disney should just give China the budget to make their films OR just stop making making films pandering to the China market. Imo, these films have been a PR nightmare for Disney/Hollywood with high risk and low return.
shang chi movies gonna be street level dopeness with that low budget 👀
I don’t think China is going to hard ban the movie, instead they are just never going to approve to try and keep the big companies active in their economy while getting their way. If I was marvel and Disney I would pull out, there’s plenty of other not Chinese investors that will shower them in money. Leaving 100mil in Chinese sales on the table is noting to joke about but if all these studious stop releasing in China their would be major pressure put on China. This is what happens when you make a deal with a communist country, more then half the Chinese population believes the murders of 40-100million Chinese citizens that led to the creation of mou’s China were justified… 100 million dead and half a billion people saying “I believe it was the right thing”
That'll be ironic for Hollywood to lecture China about censoring what artists can say.
What’s frustrating to me is that why does this movie have to be FOR Chinese people and not for Chinese-AMERICANS. This is THEIR story so who gives af if some authoritarians across the pond don’t like it.
I’m glad Rob did the heavy lifting on this topic… Studio’s and major corporations complacency in cancel culture has NEVER been about a the delusion of moral high ground… in the same way that pitch forks on social media really isn’t about doing the right thing, only that it feels good to go after people, the difference is major corps do what they think will be most profitable.
We may get a few hold outs here and there for show or because someone in the corporation has a personal crusade… but the bottom line is the bottom line, Hollywood has always chased trends that it thinks may be profitable, and the more the theatrical market shrinks, the more desperate they will act.
Looking at the way in the last 20 years how tentpole films (even before the comic book era)… Hollywood had already become the bad gambler… from studios having a slate filled year of films every month to only betting bigger and bigger on fewer and fewer films, chasing losses after a single bomb could destroy half a fiscal year… so yeah… they are gonna bend the knee more and more… Hollywood has gone from forcing diversity in order to appeal to foreign markets, to now it being a very real fear that casting the wrong talent could actually cost them.