Biblical Proof for Purgatory (in Protestant Bibles!)
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2023
- Karlo Broussard, Catholic Answers Apologist, lays out the biblical foundation of purgatory in light of Jesus' teaching in Matthew 12. Gain a deeper understanding of this misunderstood doctrine and its profound significance.
This is an excerpt from our Catholic Answers School of Apologetics online course. Learn more below!
Master the art of defending your faith! Karlo Broussard teaches this course titled Purgatory. Watch lectures, read materials, and take quizzes at your own pace. Sign up now!
www.schoolofapologetics.com/c...
"Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many;."..[Hebreews 9:27]. Just then judgment, not purgatory. Purgatory was added hundreds of years after the apostles died. Is a gross heresy..
So, it's possibly a state, not a place with a sign at the entrance. A state for purification or purgation. 🤔
thx mr obvious
@@TheTruePheeverlol
@@NX2-30 So Jesus' death was insufficient??? Tell that to Jesus.
@@kethib52154 Purgatory is only for people who are going to heaven. Purgatory isn’t a second chance. All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. - I Believe in Life Everlasting, CCC 1030
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.* The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:*
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.* - I Believe in Life Everlasting, CCC 1031
Biblical Proof for Purgatory (in Protestant Bibles!)
Response: Voila, Monsieur Broussard!
One Gospel passage reflecting Purgatory that I present to Protestants (A) who insist that once a believer is justified, they automatically go to heaven at the moment of death, and (B) for which they have no answer is Luke 12:42-48:
42 And the Lord replied, “Who, then, is the faithful and prudent steward whom the master will put in charge of his servants to distribute [the] food allowance at the proper time?
43 Blessed is that servant whom his master on arrival finds doing so.
44 Truly, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property.
45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, to eat and drink and get drunk,
46 then that servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful.
47 That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;
48 and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.
Exegesis:
Verse 42-44: That servant is going to heaven.
Verse 45-46: That servant is going to hell.
But what of the other two, (A) the servant who is beaten severely in Verse 47 and (B) the servant who is beaten lightly in Verse 48?
1. The only possible interpretation of this passage is that judgment is meted out by God to each individual according to the merits of their behavior and degree of their ignorance in conjunction with faith or lack thereof.
2. (A) Vincible ignorance is responsible for the master's severe beating of the servant in Verse 47 and (B) invincible ignorance is responsible for the master's lighter beating of the servant in Verse 48.
3. However, both of these beaten servants of Verses 47 & 48 are spared the judgment of the dissolute servant of Verse 45-46 who is punished severely and placed with the unfaithful.
I'm not sure this is a conclusive proof. Verses 47 and 48 could also be descriptions of the severity of the punishment given to the servant in verse 46. That seems to me to fit the narrative better since the beginning of verse 47 desires an antecendent ("That servant").
Perfect, I usually use several other passages, but that one is truly unbeatable (no pun intended).
"I'm not sure this is a conclusive proof."
Response:
1. I used the phrase "reflecting Purgatory" in Luke 12:42-48 and in my Protestant conversations I use it in conjunction with 1st Corinthians 3:11-15 that also is not conclusive.
2. The point being is that I can never get a Protestant to answer exactly what are the severe and light punishments that are in verses 47-48, since their de fault position is that once justified through repentance and baptism the believer automatically goes to heaven upon death.
3. In my experience, they are reluctant to assign degrees of punishment in hell and to which I would agree, since the deprivation of God is equally the torment of the damned, infinitely greater than any supposed degree of hell-fire punishment you think could be in the text.
4. Also, "that servant" is also used in verse 43 to describe the one who in verse 44 "he will put him in charge of all his property."
5. Therefore, the narrative equally supports the position that the term "that servant" is applying to four different kinds of servants: (A) the one put in charge, (B) the one beaten severely and placed with the unfaithful, (C) the one only beaten severely and (D) the one only beaten lightly.
6. My approach to apologetics with Protestants goes like this:
- Since -
A. Religious truth is something abstract that is not readily verifiable (even miracles require require faith after scientific verification)
- and -
B. Catholics ultimately rely on the authority of the Church for their beliefs, whereas Protestants disagree among themselves as to the meaning of the Sacred Text,
- therefore -
C. I deem it prudent to present Catholic teaching in the realm of probability by taking the weight of assembled biblical texts, rather than asserting that the Bible definitively teaches so and so.
7. In doing so, I make exception in the cases where the Pope as the successor to St. Peter and the bishops in union with him assign Church teachings to specific texts. In those cases, I state clearly that the Church has pronounced on the issue at hand and therefore I cannot budge as to a text's meaning.
8. One example of No. 7 is The Council of Trent's ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENTS OF PENANCE AND EXTREME UNCTION. FIRST DECREE
Being the fourth under the Sovereign Pontiff, Julius III., celebrated on the twenty-fifth of November, MDLI.
Doctrine on the Sacrament of Penance.
Chapter One (excerpt):
"But the Lord then principally instituted the sacrament of penance, when, being raised from the dead, He breathed upon His disciples, saying Receive ye the Holy Ghost, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. [John 20:21-23] By which action so signal, and words so clear, the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood, that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the apostles and their lawful successors, for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after baptism."
[The Council of Trent website /ch14.htm]
1. Thanks, but please see my response to LoveForThe Word in that I present Luke 12:42-48 as reflective and not conclusive proof.
2. And when the Lord comes, may you be 'unbeatable' and placed in charge of all His property.
@@annakimborahpa
It sounds like to me, from your first point, that you concede there only exist passages that could complement the idea of Purgatory, if it were true. The doctrine is certainly not taught anywhere with the level of definition present in the Catechism. Do you believe Purgatory was a part of the apostolic deposit?
"but it doesn't say the word 'purgatory', so checkmate Catholics!"
- Every Prot who watches this
Show me the word "Trinity" in the Bible.
Right that sounds just like them, bc this was me when I was a protestant 😢
@@TheLeftRbabieskillers
And rapture
Whether a person believes in a place called Purgatory or not does not hold a candle to what Jesus is truly desiring from us; that is, to walk by faith and to be led by His Holy Spirit.The rest is a constant attempt to make sure one's doctrines are in order, thinking that it will put him or her in good standing with God. It is more of a pharisaical approach to the things of God, which the Lord dislikes.
@@dannisivoccia2712 “He that hath my *commandments* , and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”
John 14:21
I can see the parallel in Mathew 24:45-62 but why would we have to receive any judgement if Jesus paid our fine in full at the cross?
@@CatholicDefender-bp7my Absolutely! Which is why it was so important for Jesus to die for our sins. The difference between Catholics and Protestants, from what I can see, is that Catholics believe Jesus only died for some sins, but Protestants believe Jesus died for ALL sins. It seems like the argument for Purgatory suggests that Jesus didn’t die for all of our sins which is why we have to still face judgement in Purgatory. I’ve yet to understand the Catholics position on this as a Protestant.
@@CatholicDefender-bp7my That’s not what I’m saying or believe at all. I agree he died for all sins but blasphemy. I don’t know if you understand what Protestants believe either. I’ve been on a long journey to learn about what denominations teach (which is why I watched this video) so to better understand The Bible and the cultural influence it has on Western society. Try learning what Protestants believe from Protestant thinkers. This will actually help your argument against them and maybe help them see Catholicism as the correct way of thinking. I grew up Baptist in the most Catholic city in the USA, but I have yet to hear from a Catholic what they truly believe. Many all say different things. For instance, I watched thus video and asked a friend who was Catholic and he said something different with evidence to support his claim. You could be a blessing to someone like me who is trying to learn. Catholics try to argue against Protestantism but are usually never convincing because they don’t actually know what they’re arguing against and for. I’m currently reading the Catechism of the Catholic church so we will see if it’s actually convincing.
is praying to Mary necromancy? if not why not? I am catholic defender, but I am a hater of rome for all of its lies, corruption and murders.
@@kethib52154 From what I have learned, Catholics don’t pray to Mary in order to worship her, but so that she can pass on your message to Jesus
It's still necromancy and it is according to God an abomination.
We should pray for the Souls in Purgatory because they can no longer pray for themselves.
If we help them to get to Heaven they will help us when Our time comes
Lord have Mercy on The Soul in Purgatory ✝️💕
We should pray for, preach to and plead with people to come, repent and accept Jesus into their life while they still alive . If they don't, that's what they call God given free will to choose . You can't pray them out of hell, unfortunately .
Even though this parable about rich and poor, it still shows that man who lived his life the way he wanted ( ie rich man) was destined to stay in Hell.
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores” (Luke 16:19-21).
@@igorbobkov1323and who said people can be prayed out of hell? Do you understand what the person is saying? If one can pray for the living then why can’t he also pray for the dead furthermore you can’t tell where the dead is?
@@johnosumba1980 "In 2 Timothy 1:18, while in prison awaiting his death, Paul prays for the dead man and it is recorded in the Bible. Here is what St. Paul writes, “May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day.” This is not just an expression of sentimental emotion-this is a prayer for a man who has died, it is prayer for the dead.
Paul, who was earlier known as Saul the Pharisee, was well immersed in the teaching and tradition of the Pharisaical Jews. The Jews prayed for the dead and Paul would not have seen the practice as egregious or unbiblical; rather, he would have viewed prayer for the dead as a proper practice for a Jew, and also now for a Christian who believes in the afterlife . There's this fwiw
Only Jesus can get you in heaven, sorry to break your bubble.
@@iggyantioch you fr reading your own interpretation into this.
“The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day--and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus.”- 2 Timothy 1:18
“None of those things which ye have done to them shall be passed by without being reckoned unto you. "The Lord grant "to you "that ye may find mercy of the Lord in that day!".
Salute Cassian, my host, and his most serious-minded partner in life, and their very dear children, to whom may "God grant that they find mercy of the Lord in that day"
- Ignatius of Antioch
If anything, this proves that you being saved is by Gods Will, not of your own.
The Catholic view of purgatory is mush. The standard view of it is not; a timeless/placeless cleansing of an unknown quality.
Rev 21:27
Romans 6:23
The Afterlife isn’t my area of expertise just to note.
Many invent new theologies at their owns. But, the discovery of the person of Jesus is not to have a personal opinion about Him. But to unterstand who is He really. And that is only possible when we listen whoses have known Christ personally. And the teachings of de Saints since 20 centuries.
Yes I am Evangelical, but I found this information fascinating I subscribed.❤
I have some questions do we fall asleep when we die or soul sleep Seventh day advist teach this, or do we go get judge to go to heaven or hell not lake of fire. And purgatory and the many heavens I’m kinda getting confuse on which one is 100 percent OT mention soul sleep NT says we go to be with the lord Abraham blossom or heaven.
"those who are alive and remain unto the coming (παρουσία) of the Lord, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet them in the air"
@paulmeyer4048 soul sleep and purgatory etc are all different.
Purgatory is merely means Purification of sins through Jesus.
Soul sleep is the idea that souls stay underground til judgement. But correct there are verse that show different things like in Hebrews it mentions witnesses in heaven then mentions we coming to church and meeting God the Father, angels and spirits of those who died. Then in revelation it mentions martyrs in heaven etc
is soul sleep kind of like soul train....both are fun, both are not biblical,
@@kethib52154 I mean agreed soul sleep isn't bibical. Because souls are in heaven. Soul sleep is from 1800s protestants taking the phrase those who sleep as literial. Which there a few places talking about sleep. But that is also the same word for death. And people of the time still used the term sleep to describe people's bodies not their souls who was often depicted in heaven or hell or wandering in greek religion. In the Bible however we see saints in heaven with Jesus in Hebrews and revelation where they are worshiping and watching the earth.
It's a blessing listening to this sound scripture study ❤
Does God forgive us of our sins or the church?
Does God purify our soul or do we and other people?
I am confused, is our salvation from and through God or ourself ?
👍🙏
Amen 🙏🙏🙏🙏💖
A simple mistake here termed the logical fallacy of the inverse. We must study to show ourselves approved before we attempt to teach others.
The age to come means the future, not the afterlife.
Needless to say, you are using irrelevent verse.
I don't believe in Purgatory and feel that the arguments for it are weak and are refuted by many other Bible verses. I am glad that at least you guys try to defend it using the Bible rather than hiding behind tradition.
What do you think refutes it?
Ecclesiastes 9 verse 5
Why should I go and suffer in purgatory when Jesus died so I can get to heaven perfect ?
Jesus died for us so that we may attain heaven by living a life in accordance with His will, but we cannot be perfect in this life. We have all fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). If none of us will be perfect by the time we die, or in other words "clean", then if purgatory doesn't exist and Rev. 21:27 is true, "...nothing unclean shall enter it (heaven)", then no one is going to heaven...
Going to purgatory means you _are_ saved, and it means that you are being purified of all worldly attachments and placing Jesus _fully_ on the throne of your heart. Purgatory in no way diminishes Christ's saving work on the cross. Jesus made it _possible_ to receive salvation, and for those that did not outright reject God by the time of their death, but instead were in communion with Him, but not fully in love, they get purified, which is a beautiful thing. No sin can enter heaven, so if you die with sin that isn't mortal but venial, then you have to be purified. Simple dimple :)
Purgatory isn't real its not scriptural because that would be works, in other words you're paying time for your sin to cleanse your sin, in Ephesians 2:8 9 says we're saved by grace not by works so time would be works, also our time is not valuable enough to pay for sins, Hebrews 9:22 says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins, so our time is not valuable enough, times the wrong premise. first Peter 1:18 says you are not redeemed with corruptible things but with the precious blood of christ.
I think your overlooking the other Bible evidence (Paul writes about it in 1st Corinthians) and also I think you are under the assumption that the initial moment of salvation is the end of the story. Our sins are forgiven when we are saved in baptism and our name is in the book of Life. What many people have largely forgotten is that the book of Revelation teaches us quite clearly that our name can be taken out of the book of Life, and anyone whose name is not in that book will not enter the kingdom. Our sins we commit after salvation need to be repented and that's why Jesus gave authority to his disciples to forgive sins when He rose from the dead. We know from our own experience of ourselves and of others that we are often not purified of our faults, addictions and bad attitudes at death. Since nothing unclean will enter heaven then, we can understand something will happen to us to purify us when we die. What that will be like and how long it takes is a matter of speculation, but it will probably not be fun.
@@trevorcronk935 You're overlooking the New Catholic Encyclopedia, which says: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture."
@@cbooth151 Hold on, what authority does the encyclopedia rest? Who wrote it? No matter, the tradition had to come from somewhere, and the bible may not be explicit about the full doctrine, but it does indeed have passages that talk about it. See 1 Corinthians.
@@cbooth151 So you're quoting a textbook written by academics, which is not publicized by the Catholic church, and then telling us that it's the official view of the Church?
@@dongy762 Tell me, does the New Catholic Encyclopedia say that "the doctrine of purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture"? Yes or no?
This is a Scripturally sound explanation.
Amen
yet....no scripture....no surprise
@@kethib52154 no scripture? Carlo cites:
Matthew 12:32
Mark 10:29-30
Luke 20:34&35
Hebrews 9:27
Matthew 12:36-37
Psalm 66:10-12
Revelation 21:27
Isaiah 4:4
And more.
Πάντοτε Χαίρετε.
@kethib52154 we can talk about Micah , Isaiah , Corinthians why at the end of times first comes judgement then purification. Etc then talk about why in revelation there those who died then recieve purification. Or why does Jesus preach to the literial dead. Etc.
The thing is scripture. Rather interpretation of scripture and understanding what purgatory is. In our conversation it doesn't seam like you knew what purgatory was so giving scripture was irrelevant because you didn't know the definition
@@sonicrocks2007 you need to explain what you mean by "the end of times" and the fact that you say first comes judgment, then purification from what particular verses you get first to get that from? I need correct you on one thing Jesus did not preach to the literal dead, he proclaimed to them that those that had died in the flood that their judgment in the flood was just.
Did you know that every time the death of a Christian is referred to in the New Testament (God's Word) it always says that they sleep or that they have fallen asleep. Listen:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first..."
Did you hear?
No, Math 5 is about the next age to come. An age is a fixed and limited period of time usually some multiple of 1,000 years. The next age to come is the Millenial reign of Christ for 1,000 years mentioned many times in Revelations and elsewhere. It will be the Day of Rest ordained from the foundation of creation. This has nothign at all to do with Purgatory.
Just because something is mentioned in up until a certain time doesnt automatically mean that it can happen after that time. The Prtotestants use that logic to claim St Mary had sexual relation with Joseph after the wedding day...which is false.
The “Church” has no right to forgive any sins. Forgiveness is only for God to provide 🙂
God granta forgiveness through the Church.
The early Christians were very much Catholic. Protestants claim to follow Jesus, but their personal lord and savior is Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ellen G. White, etc. with over 45,000 denominations and still growing. They don't even agree on one another on every level.
JESUS ESTABLISHED HIS CHURCH
Matthew 16:17-19 KJV
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
JESUS GAVE HIS APOSTLES AUTHORITY
John 20:22-23 KJV
22 And when he had said this, HE BREATH UNTO THEM, and saith unto them, Receive ye THE HOLY GHOST:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Luke 9:1 KJV
9 Then HE called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Matthew 10:1 KJV
10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
All of the earliest Christians and early church fathers were Catholic through and through. Here are just some of the many quotes I can give. And I don't have to quote one sentence to try to rip it out of context and make it mean something that it doesn't. Again, you are being intellectually dishonest just to try to prove something you can't prove against all odds.
EARLY CHURCH FATHERS WERE CATHOLIC:
Augustine (393 A.D.) We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic, not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard. ... If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today. ... If the very order of the Episcopal order is to be considered, how much more, surely, truly, safely do we number them from Peter himself, to Whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said: ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquor it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement, Clement by Anicletus, Anecletus by Averistus… …In this succession, not a Donatist Bishop can be found.
Cyril of Jerusalem (350 A.D.): The Church is called Catholic, then, because it extends over the whole world, from end to end of the earth, and because it teaches universally and infallibly each and every doctrine which must come to the knowledge of men, concerning things visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly, and because it brings every race of men into subjection to godliness, governors and governed, learned and unlearned, and because it universally treats and heals every class of sins, those committed with the soul and those with the body, and it possesses within itself every conceivable form of virtue, in deeds and in words and in the spiritual gifts of every description. ... And, if you ever are visiting in cities, do not inquire simply where the house of the Lord is for the others, sects of the impious, attempt to call their dens houses of the Lord, nor ask merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the name peculiar to this holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God.
Lactantius (304-310 A.D.): [The Heretics], having lost the name of Christ, they have ceased to be Christians, and have put on human and foreign names. It is therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this the domicile of faith, this the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there, or whoever does not go out from here, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation.
Pope Steven I (268 A.D.): And other heretics if they have parted themselves from the Church, can have nothing to do with its power and grace since all power and grace is settled in the Church, where presides presbyters [bishops] who possess both the power both of baptizing, and of imposing hands, and of ordaining.
Cyprian of Carthage (251 A.D.): There speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest, and the flock clinging to their shepherd in the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishops; and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priest of God, believing that they are secretly in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic is not split nor divided, but is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another. ... While the bond of concord remains and the indivisible sacrament of the Catholic Church continues, each Bishop disposes and directs his own work, as one who must give an account of his admiration to the Lord.
Clement of Alexandria (202 A.D.): From what has been said then, it seems clear to me that the true Catholic Church, that which is really ancient is one. … We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in origin, and in eminence, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does into the unity of the one faith…those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew that before the foundation of the world, they would be just.
Tertullian (200 A.D.): Where was Marcion, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago-in the reign of Antonius for the most part-and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the papacy of the blessed Eleutherius, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled. ... But if you are near Italy, you have Rome - from where our authority derives. How happy is that Church, on which apostles poured out their whole doctrine along with their blood, where Peter endured a passion like that of our Lord, where Paul was crowned with a death like John’s.
Irenaeus (180 A.D.): But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul -that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.
The Martyrdom of Polycarp (155 A.D.): And of the elect, he was one indeed, the wonderful martyr Polycarp, who in our days was an apostolic and prophetic teacher, bishop of the Catholic Church in Smyrna. For every word which came forth from his mouth was fulfilled and will be fulfilled.
Ignatius of Antioch (110 A.D.) Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Heretics abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our savior, Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins, which the Father, in His goodness, raised up again.
Stunning beautiful and concise. Thanks!
Y'all support a church that your pope Pius did nothing about supporting H!tler, or saving the Jews. Don't act like y'all are perfect.
You are deceived and delusional. Catholics claim to follow Christ, but their true lord and savior is the pope.
More extreme exaggerations of number of denominations. No humans agree with each other on every level...lol.
Early christians were pure monotheists. They were all killed during council of nicea of shortly after. Worshipping a man who was created by God makes no sense for monotheism.
I am 100% CATHOLIC.....BUT zero percent roman.
The Holy Church gives us EVERYTHING we need for our Salvation: the sacraments, the teachings, the communion and the prayers of the Saints, the Bible and above all a full knowledge of the person of Christ made freely accessible to all. So we are not alone on our path to salvation. Please, let us pray for the Church and for our priests.
Very true, amen
Yes we have to listen to the Chirch of Jesus Christ during these confusing times and have trust Mathew 16:18
Isaiah 2:8
“Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:”
😂 last thing I'll do is take advice from a person who takes orders from a woke goon across the pond wearing a monkey suit.
Jesus and Jesus alone gives us everything we need for salvation
It's very disheartening that this doctrine wasn't a realization until 1275. How come it took so long for the holy Spirit to guide the church to this conclusion. So why did it come after the great schism. How could the early church fail so much. I struggle with this doctrine because I feel that it is to preach blasphemy against the holy Spirit which Jesus promised would guide the Church. At the same time to deny purgatory would be a major sin and blasphemy. Also at the same time I feel it would be blasphemy to create another realm of existence if it does not exist. To say God cannot purify us on our day of atonement.
Apocalypse 10:6 exludes the purgatory. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) , bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia and one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church has declared: "Be not mistaken opon the fact that there will exist only two locations: the paradise for the dears and the hell for the sinners. - The purgartory has been introduced between 1170 and 1200, so in the Middle Ages. Up to this age the purgatory has been completely unknown and it will be not only in vain but pointless too to search for biblical justifications.
"The man who has cultivated that remote land [Gen 3:17] and who has gotten his bread by his very great labor is able to suffer this labor to the end of this life. After this life, however, it is not necessary that he suffer. But the man who perhaps has not cultivated the land and has allowed it to be overrun with brambles has in this life the curse of his land on all his works, and after this life he will have either purgatorial fire or eternal punishment [habebit vel ignem purgationis vel poenam aeternam]." (De Genesi contra Manich 2:20:30 [c. AD 389])
"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment [ante iudicium illud severissimum novissimumque]. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment." (The City of God 21:13 [c. AD 413-426])
"That there should be some such fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish -- through a certain purgatorial fire [per ignem quemdam purgatorium]." (Enchiridion of Faith, Hope, and Love 18:69 [c. AD 421] or NPNF1 III:260)
You have not studied Augustine's work well enough to make that statement.
In many passages of the Bible it is clearly taught about Heaven or Hell. But what you are not looking into is that Purgatory, which is a word not present as such in the Bible but there are verses that talk about a purification or chastisements of the soul, IS PART OF HEAVEN.
Matthew 24:45-51 (In this passage it is clear at the very end that He is referring to Hell)
“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. (
None of those teach a third mysterious afterlife
@@ProtestantKing7 Purgatory isn't a third mysterious afterlife. It's a state of cleansing for those entering heaven.
@@bigfootapologetics it’s unbiblical and not a authentic Christian. Jesus spoke about heaven and hell but never a third mysterious afterlife. Purgatory is mysterious and a third afterlife.
@@ProtestantKing7You’re assuming purgatory is taught as a place, when it’s not. The Catholic position is that is it a process. Logically speaking, when you die as a Christian with sin, there has to be a point in which you go from having sin, to not having sin, before you enter Heaven. That process is what we call purgatory.
@@ProtestantKing7 Purgatory isn't really an afterlife. It's not a destination. It's part of the process. Jesus certainly spoke of purification (as here) and even C.S. Lewis pointed to the necessary of purgatory as a means by which we are sufficiently sanctified to enter heaven.
The disciples believed in and expressed their belief in reincarnation and Jesus didn't correct their idea. John 9.
Heb 12:22-23 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
@weaponofchoice-tc7qs "the spirits of just men made perfect" thats a Purgatorial Purifying, as no man can enter heaven unless perfect & holy as God is perfect & holy....per Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. & just as the Catechism states, CCC.1030: All those who die in Gods grace & friendship but are still imperfectly purified & are assured of their salvation, but after death undergo purification to achieve holiness to enter the joy of heaven. So Christian context in Sacred Scripture & the Catechism showing Purgatory or a Purifying of our soul to experience the Beatific Vision
that is not about purgatory.
@@paulmeyer4048 well then good sir, do tell how Spirits made perfect in heaven can or are not purified in a pugatorial fire? I know Protestants can impose self interp, but Purgatory is what purifies, makes perfect, no matter length of time....we must be perfect as the Lord is perfect, to enter the Light of His face in the Beatific Vision. Peace to you & Happy blessed Easter
Purgatory is a heresy, and God can make known to anyone anything he chooses.
@@paulmeyer4048 who claims it's a heresy? That's your assertion from a heterodox position which holds no weight in true Christendom......maybe you don't comprehend the fullness & beauty of the faith, & ignore Church history but even Protest/Dissension is sinful. Of course God can do whatever He pleases, nobody contest that, & we explicitly see God established a Church, His Church on His Apostles & Prophets & gave authority to this Church, which contains offices...the Pillar & foundation of the truth, & this ancient holy Catholic Church contains the truth & authority from the Lord, so I will side w/ it over any random self imposing Protester
The moment you said “let us set aside the unpardonable sin” you lost me. We must read the Word is it’s holistic manner because putting the Word in contradiction makes it no longer the Truth.
That was wonderful eisegesis, reading Purgatory into the text, but there is no way to exegete the existence of Purgatory from this scripture.
In the Matthew passage, there is nothing to suggest anything resembling purgatory. Considering that Jesus is talking about the impossibility of forgiveness from blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the prior verse, we can reasonably conclude the mention of the age to come (correctly identified by Karlo as a reference to eternal life) is used here to demonstrate the eternality of the unforgiveness of blasphemy agaisnt the Holy Spirit.
Saying Jesus is implying the existence of Purgatory is pure eisegesis, as there is no evidence Jesus would be implying such a thing.
If Purgatory exists, as the Catholic Church claims, you couldnt use this passage as evidence. It is a passage that doesnt positively prove Purgatory doesnt exist, but certainly doesnt positively prove it's existence either.
(This comment is not meant to disprove Purgatory in full, only to show Karlo is relying on eisegesis to try to prove Catholic theology as he cannot exegete Purgatory from the Bible)
Agree. There is a difference between evidence and complimentary data.
@weaponofchoice-tc7qs That verse you included is about the new Jerusalem.
That has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory unless I'm missing something.
The same type of eisegesis that Jerome uses? Again please watch and take in ALL of the material. He's not isolating one text to prove this. This is a pretty good defense of the Doctrine.
1 Peter 3:19-20 hints of a PRISON that Christ went to after his death and prior his ascension into heaven.
Matthew 12:25-26 hints of a PRISON where you will stay until you have paid the last penny you owe.
Matthew 12:32 implies of possible forgiveness of sin in the next world provided the sin was not committed against the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 3:15 “saved but ONLY as through fire”
Great video, maybe you can put my spirit at rest.
Where in the Bible does it say you must pray to Mary & the Saints?
If anyone does what is against the Bible is that not heresy & if it is heresy does that not make Catholicism a cult?
There are plenty of resources that answer this question but perhaps you are too puffed up with pride to search for it. The church came before the Bible not the other way around. The Bible also doesn’t say that everything we believe as Christians must be in the Bible. Catholics are not required to pray to saints. We are only required to believe that they can intercede for us because they are alive in Christ.
@@revelation1215 Are you saying the church was here before the Word? Scribes & Pharisees came after the Bible🤣🤣🤣
@@revelation1215 wow nice accusation....does such send you to purgatory or straight to HE##
So there are a thousand verses that say it's either Heaven or Hell, but you attempt to parse one irrelevant verse into a doctrine? This would just be sad if it wasn't so violent to the truth.
Spiritual 🍖🍖🍖
May be wise to study the argument against purgatory, too.
There is no strong argument against Purgatory; only opinions and feelings. The teaching goes back to OT Judaism and the infant church (where believers prayed for their dead), it has biblical support, it does not undermine anything Christ did (it's a final application of his perfect work).
What is the argument against purification ? What is next the argument against the holy spirit and judgement?
like the fact that it is a myth originally designed to get money from the people
🤣😂
Isn't it reasonable to conclude that Christ would have told us about something as important as Purgatory, rather than leave us with so much ambiguity?
Wouldn't he have also told us that Peter, the first "pope", was infallible, as well as the 266+ other popes who followed him?
Where did Christ tell us we must recite our sins to a priest in order to receive absolution? Never saw that one, either.
And when did Christ tell us his mother was sinless, that we should pray to her, and that he could not refuse her intercessions? Christ never mentioned that, either.
What Christ DID say was the following:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.
John 6:39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.
John 6:40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.
John 14:6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."
let's be honest purgatory is deceitful. 2 Timothy 3:16 is clear...what is the problem?
Clear how?
@@brittoncain50902 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work". Jerome would not even translate the apocrypha because he didn't consider it scripture.
@@kethib52154 I know the verse, how are you claiming that it relates to purgatory?
@@brittoncain5090 see Hebrews9:27 it rules out anything between death and judgment.
@@kethib52154 I think you have a misunderstanding of purgatory. How would going to purgatory prevent having been judged?
It's exceedingly hard to "find proof" for what doesn't exist, and has absolutely no basis in fact.
that's why C.S. Lewis the Anglican came to the conclusion purgatory must be real. And I'll bet a hundred buckaroos he was far more intelligent than you
@@Garry_Combine Anglicans were poisoned by the Roman Catholic heresies that they came out of. Since Christians are the "Righteousness of Christ", why would they require post-processing? Just another way the Catholics claim that Jesus didn't do enough at Calvary. "Purgatory" is satan's BEST JOKE on Catholics. Imagine how pleased he is when a catholic dies, finds themself in "Purgatory", and then realizes that it's HELL, and they'll NEVER get out!!!
Purgatory is a specious claim, even based on the verses that you give.
Nah pretty simple.
1. We see in old testament and new about the day of the Lord. First Comes judgement then comes purification. So some Christians think day the Lord was half fulfilled with Christ but will fully happen at the end of time. That means that purification happens at end of time.
2. We see revelation those who died and got new robes and names post death and those who got them before they died meaning some purification is pre and post death.
3. Jesus talks about many parables such heaven is like something that gathers souls for sorting. I read this for the first time and thought. No Jesus your wrong earth is meant for sorting souls not heaven. But nope he says heaven. He also gives metaphors about the master return, one casted out, one beaten one rewarded. I could go on.
@@sonicrocks2007 purification after death is not in Scripture. Purgatory is an unbiblical doctrine.
@@sonicrocks2007 Yet no specific verses given.
@kethib52154 sure read Micah 3 talking about judgement. Then read Corinthians 3:13 talk about the future judgement of the day of the lord and comes with it purification.
Then in revelation 6:11 we see those in heaven are finally given new robes. Robes in old testiment metaphor is your sanctification. Here in chapter 6 these are people who have died then given new robes, if you read all of revelation you get that they get new names, robes , Crowns them lay crowns down.
There is actually several groups of people getting different robes at different times. Those in chapter 3 are getting robes in the past on earth. Chapter 6 they are getting them in heaven. Chapter 22 the author is urging the reader to do it now.
Some robes are washed. Some are given new and some are dipped in blood as well. Overall read all of revelation to get the whole picture but chapter 6:11 is what you want.
@@sonicrocks2007 Micah 3 does not mention purgatory. Purgatory implies Christ's death was insufficient... Purgatory is a late heretical doctrine. Perhaps a doctrine of demons.
TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY IS TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD- ST. PAUL
First of all, you could argue that purgatory is in the presence of the Lord just not the fullness of splendor in God's presence. Second, and more importantly, Paul never said that. Provide the actual quote; that's not what Paul said.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 I had always heard it taught the way the person above quoted it. But I looked and you are correct. Paul says that he is willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. He is not saying that those two things necessarily happen simultaneously.
That's not actually what the verse says, you should read it again.
Baloney
Catholic came up wirh pergatory as a money making sceme. You used to pay rhe Catholic Church for dead love ones shorter time in" perg"
Either is the trinity. Checkmate protestant.
your references in the bible to try to support your doctrine of purgatory are not conclusive at all. purgatory was not even established as roman catholic doctrine until the 2nd council of lyons (1274), and was not at all practiced by the 1st century Christian church. purgatory denies that Christ's death and blood on the cross was sufficient for salvation.
Wrong! interpretation, look at the text, and let scripture interpret scripture
Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Luk 16:22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
How do you interpret scripture when in old testiment it mentions on day of the Lord , first Comes judgement of the nations then purification.
Revelation when it says some wash Their robes, some are given robes, some get blood on their robes, some have new robes in heaven snd other earth? This means purification post death.
Why does Jesus say heaven is for gathering then sorting. Mathew 14
Why does Jesus give a parable of master return , one servsnt thrown into fire,one chastised one rewarded?
@@sonicrocks2007 not purgatory!
@@kethib52154 you have shown you don't know what purgatory is.
As he told the criminal next to Him on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise," says it all, and of course, Romans 8:30, "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Once you are justified by Jesus once you die you go to be with Him, yes daily repentance is necessary, but if one were to perish heaven is open to them, again puratory is another one of the many rackets made up by Rome.
the word hell means Hades or Sheol, the collective abode of the dead, divided into Paradise or Abraham's Bosom--the state of God-fearing souls--and Gehenna, the state of ungodly souls. Thus the descent into hell suggests that the Son of God carried the sins of the world to hell; or the Son of God carried Good News of deliverance to the godly dead such as Lazarus the beggar and the repentant thief.
Christ says in Matthew that, like Jonah, he would be in the belly of the earth for 3 days. Acts tells us Christ remained on earth for 40 days before He ascends. So there were 43 days BEFORE Christ went to Heaven. Did the good thief go ahead of the Lord to make sure the lights were on for His arrival? Or, more likely, Paradise that Christ mentions, is Abrahams Boosom. The place where the prisoners Christ preached to in 1st Peter were awaiting the Messiah
@@bibleman8010 is your argument then that Jesus and the thief went to the Paradise which you define as a purgatorial fire?
@@bibleman8010also if you believe Jesus is God (especially his resurrected, glorified body) you would believe He can be wherever he wants, both paradise and wherever else at the same time (because He’s not limited to time or space)
@@theodorebe where did the bible say he went not the twilight zone
@@bibleman8010 given that answer, I can only assume you’re admitting that you believe Paradise (actually edenic place) is rather a painful Purgatory and that you believe God is not omnipresent, all for the sake of defending roman catholicism
N Cy, u expects christians to learn more from clowns.
Making assumption of the biblical text is foolish . Purgatory is not found in the Bible no matter how much you as a catholic tries to be convincing . Jesus teachings do not contain anything about purgatory and no biblical foundation exist , its a fabrication . There is also no forgiveness in the after life , one has to ask the living Savior and Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness while being alive , once one dies its to late . No church nor any religion can forgive sin nor can it save a soul and there is no venial nor mortal sin it is "SIN" !
Then show me the word "trinity" in the Bible 😂.
You prots are so funny, you use a book compiled by Catholics who believed in purgatory to affirm purgatory doesn't exist 😂
@@Phantom-xp2co just your dumb question show me the word Trinity in the Bible , It is Father Son and Holy Spirit called the Trinity . You catholics even pray to the Trinity . May be your catholic bible was compiled by Rome and purgatory a ancient pagan belief system was adopted also as real . You catholics are so willfully ignorant calling everyone that does not agree with the Roman Catholic teachings a protestant .I think religion has altered your thinking .
This age is the age you live before you die. The age to come is after Christ's return. I guess it's all in how you see it and I don't. Jesus clearly talks about heaven and he'll but doesn't clearly talk about purgatory.
When Jesus says kingdom heaven is like that for something that sorts souls what do you think he means? Or Peter saying jesus went to preach to the dead? Or Jesus giving the metaphor of the sevant kicked out, beaten and rewarded.
What do you think it means in revelation when some souls are purified on earth given robes yet some are waiting to get robes and new names in heaven
None of this makes a lick of sense. God cleanses us, God purifies us. He makes us able to stand in His presence with joy; Jude 24. Purgatory is you atoning for your own sins by expiating them in purgatory; ccc 1475. If you die with any sin not forgiven or atoned for by Jesus its not purgatory youre going to but hell, forever. Jesus nailed our certificate of debt to the cross; Col 2:14. He didn't rip a tiny corner off and say here, this is your part. Purgatory is a lie from the pit of hell to make catholics think they have a safety net after they die. They don't.
Look here there is heaven and hell that's it lil buddy when you die you'll find out
Purgatory isn't necessarily a third place
P DEVIL-INSPIRED TEACHINGS
It was the Devil who told Eve: "You positively will not die." (Genesis 3:4; Revelation 12:9) But she did die; no part of her lived on. That the soul lives on after death is a lie started by the Devil. And it is also a lie, which the Devil has had spread, that the souls of the wicked are tormented in a hell or a purgatory. Since the Bible clearly shows that the dead are unconscious, these teachings could not be true. Actually, neither the word "purgatory" nor the idea of a purgatory is found in the Bible.
Ironically go read revelation again. If you do you will find where souls in hesven are purified. This is the meaning of some get robes washed on earth and some in heaven given new names and robes
Have you ever noticed there are several different groups in revelation getting the robes cleaned at different times and methods? Some washing their own robes , some given a robe, some dipping their robes in blood. Some on earth and some in heaven
Hello more lies . The Catholic NT is the same as Protestant NT. This man doesn't give correct context for that passage 😞
It does not logically follow that just because the unpardonable sin will NOT be forgiven in the age to come, that there will be sins that ARE forgiven in that age to come.
@CatholicDefender-bp7my
Yes, that is what I’m claiming by this argument for purgatory is.
The title of the video is Biblical proof of Purgatory in Protestant Bibles. I’m commenting on the argument presented from the passages is a non-sequitur. Instead of offering a rebuttal to my claim, you have changed the topic essentially to me rejected church tradition as infallible.
It was the claim of this video that they could prove purgatory from the “Protestant Bible.” I’m merely remark by that this video falls short of that claim.
The catholic church teaches their own doctrines as truth. It indeed is the great harlot on Revelation chapter 17.
keep telling yourself that. Christ be with you.
@@jflores85 Hebrews 9:27 " And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." The Apostle Paul knows much more about God and the Holy Spirit than any catholic church so called saint. Purgatory is a fantasy spread by catholics. The fact that the catholic church which promotes apparitions, mystics and soothsayers sayings as truth not revealing that these can all be from the devil, who can appear as angel of light should make you give pause.
Purgatory isn't real its not scriptural because that would be works, in other words you're paying time for your sin to cleanse your sin, in Ephesians 2:8 9 says we're saved by grace not by works so time would be works, also our time is not valuable enough to pay for sins, Hebrews 9:22 says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins, so our time is not valuable enough, times the wrong premise. first Peter 1:18 says you are not redeemed with corruptible things but with the precious blood of christ.
@francissweeney7318 the ones divinely inspired who wrote the books in the bible, the followers of the way, what would become the catholic church, wrote that about themselves?
I wish a Protestant could explain “how” they get into heaven, if they need to be perfect and without sin to do so. And saying things like “being covered by the blood” is a what, not a “how”.
I get to heaven by faith in Jesus not by works. This is the major difference between protestants and catholicism
@@josephtaolie9933 And one of the major misunderstandings. Catholics do not believe that salvation can be "earned" by anything, faith or works. It's a gift. But regarding faith and works, you cannot separate the two, sir. As Paul said in James 2:26: “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.” They are equally crucial for salvation. Works (love) proves your faith-without em’, your faith is phoney. The bible couldn’t be more clear that our actions have eternal consequences. If you want me to delve more into why Sola Fide is an unbiblical doctrine, just ask. (I don't mean to sound derogatory or condescending).
Why does the Catholic Church use mosquitoes to interpret. Why don't the Bishops n cardinals do this job. If u claim to be apostles from Peter why is there a deafening silence from 100 over cardinals. Wht are u afraid of. U waste away in the vatican doing nothing
Not convinced at all about purgatory. This doctrine does great damage to the gospel of Jesus and His finished work.
Sorry, here is yet another very long comment. TL;DR Paul taught that sanctification and justification last our whole lives and usually are not finished until after death.
The doctrine of purgatory does not take away from the saving redemption of the Cross. Christ is the one who purges the desire for sin from the faithful, both in natural life for those who can fully accept it, and in purgatory for most souls who die still with some attachment to sin. The souls are not purified by us or by the saints when we pray, but by the infinite mercy of God and through his ever flowing outpouring of grace, our petitions are answered by Him who desires our sanctification and our life in heaven. It is dangerous to assume one has attained total sanctification and justification on earth merely through the grace given at Baptism. Clearly some attachment to sin remains in most (if not all) even after entering into life of the Spirit at Baptism. St Paul, who was clearly a holy and devoted dude, wrote about how sin lives in the body, causing even him to say "What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate," (Rom 8:15) and again later he describes himself and the Roman Christians as those "who have the firstfruits of the Spirit" (i.e., they are "saved" inasmuch as they have entered into the mystery of redemption through Baptism and the sacraments of the Church, and are holding fast to their new faith), and yet also said they all "groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies... we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance" (Rom 8:23, 25). The Holy Spirit is working through their imperfect bodies to transform them on earth (justification). So justification and sanctification are spoken of by St Paul as both something that is accomplished at Baptism, and yet also as something that is continuously happening within the faithful. Even for those faithful who die in a state of grace without mortal sin yet still with attachment to venial sin, Christ loves them and has predestined that they be purified of this attachment so they too can share in the glorification of heaven with Him. I admit, Paul does not explicitly teach of purification after death in Romans 8, as that isn't his main focus there, but he does clearly and emphatically emphasize that we are not merely instantaneously sanctified and justified the moment we become Christians ("once-saved-always-saved"), and it seems pretty clear that he thinks the process of sanctification and justification will not be complete until each one of us dies, else why would he speak of "hope for what we do not see." The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church that Christ entrusted with the Gospel has consistently affirmed and passed down in Sacred Tradition that after death, the faithfully departed need our prayers because most of them must finish this process of purgation after death. It is not accomplished by our prayers but through the grace and mercy of Christ who died for all out of His love for all. Our prayers and penances offered for those in purgatory are looked on with favor by God not because He needs them like some kind of bus token. He gives us the gift of helping those in purgatory, who cannot help themselves, so that we all may learn perfect charity. We cannot do anything by ourselves. Only through Christ is anything done at all. This self-emptying is the key element to our purgation.
Please refute the speaker.
@@iggyantioch I would love to explain. Thanks for asking. You need to realize first that my grounds for disagreement are based on exegesis of scripture without presupposing anything other than the truth from the plain reading of scripture without influence from dogmas based on traditions that have grown (or added) over time. Can you accept that?
@@Declared-righteous I gotcha!
I appreciate you. To say it does great damage to the gospel. Is a pretty hefty accusation. Reading a cannon that was compiled by The very Church that received it through the Holy Spirit and Tradition makes a plain reading difficult
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
These from patristics.
And anti Nicene Fathers.
First, no church can forgive my transgression against God. Only God can forgive my sins. Second, none of the verses of scripture that you have used clearly identify a purgatory in the bible. What you are doing is trying to support your religious believes by adding allegoric (your) interpretation to the bible. The bible is the word of God, it has no errors and no contradictions, and it is not open to suppositions or own interpretations. The bible explains the bible. You may neither find a purgatory in Jesus' words in Luke 16 verses 19-31, nor anywhere else in the bible. You are either condemned or saved, and there are no grays between these two opposites.
After the resurrection Jesus gave power to the Apostles in John 20:23 to forgive sins, or not forgive sins: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”. That is the most literal interpretation of that text, and the tradition of the Church until the protestant reformation. Early Church history records the Apostles denying forgiveness to those who were not truly repentant, and freely granting it to those who were. Jesus passed his authority onto his Apostles, and the Apostles passed their authority onto those who they laid hands on, and ordained. The Church does not deny God can forgive sins directly, or that those who repent before God privately can be forgiven. It’s in the teaching of the Church that this is a legitimately form of repentance. At the same time the Church affirms that Jesus ordained, and instituted confession as the normal grace by which Christians, and the Church at large finds healing and reconciliation to God, and to each other.
@@nuallannnua1553 John 20:23 does not give authority to Christians to forgive sins. Jesus was saying that the believer can boldly declare the certainty of a sinner’s forgiveness by the Father because of the work of his Son if that sinner has repented and believed the gospel. The believer with certainty can also tell those who do not respond to the message of God’s forgiveness through faith in Christ that their sins, as a result, are not forgiven.
@@josephdavison6967I thought you said the Bible isn’t open so your own interpretations. Why are you confident that your interpretation is better than another’s. Fortunately, God gave us not only an infallible book but also an infallible interpreter in the authority to “bind and loose.”
@@josephdavison6967 ya, that’s not what John 20:23 says, lol
@@JakePenick it is not. Jesus never relinquished his deity or authority to any men or women. The pharisees even said in Mark 2 vs 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 1 Cor 3 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. The "keys to the kingdom" has nothing to do with men forgiving sins to men, but the preaching of the true gospel that calls to repentance and conversion.
Near death experiences of CATHOLICS who went to Hell, Is because of a belief that they were going to purgatory! Purgatory is a place of punishment very similar to Hell. You guys are teaching people are going to Hell even if they haven't done anything wrong because of this false doctrine. As for the Apocrypha it should be used very sparingly and never to build doctrine from.
Part 1: The Profession of Faith (26 - 1065)
Section 2: The Profession of the Christian Faith (185 - 1065)
Chapter 3: I Believe in the Holy Spirit (683 - 1065)
Article 12: "I believe in life everlasting" (1020 - 1065)
III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY ⇡
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
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1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. 606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: 607
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come. 608
606. Cf. Council of Florence (1439):DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563):DS 1820; (1547):1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336):DS 1000.
607. Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
608. St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4,39:PL 77,396; cf. Mt 12:31.
Part 2: The Celebration of the Christian Mystery (1066 - 1690)
Section 2: The Seven Sacraments of the Church (1210 - 1690)
Chapter 2: The Sacraments of Healing (1420 - 1532)
Article 4: The Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation (1422 - 1498)
X. INDULGENCES ⇡
The punishments of sin ⇡
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To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. 84
84. Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1712-1713; (1563): 1820.
In the Communion of Saints ⇡
1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things." 87 In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.
87. Indulgentiarum doctrina, 5.
1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.
The Catholic Church doesn’t use any apocryphal texts, they are the deuterocanonical texts which are used by both Catholics and orthodox and have been for 2000 years.
Purgatory isn't a place.
And apocrapha is actually used by new testimsnt authors all the time and not used sparingly
Purgatory isn't real its not scriptural because that would be works, in other words you're paying time for your sin to cleanse your sin, in Ephesians 2:8 9 says we're saved by grace not by works so time would be works, also our time is not valuable enough to pay for sins, Hebrews 9:22 says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins, so our time is not valuable enough, times the wrong premise. first Peter 1:18 says you are not redeemed with corruptible things but with the precious blood of christ.
@Devoted_believer nothing you said was against catholics or purgatory.
Purgatory simply means Purification. If you are a Christian you believe you are purified by Jesus.
Usually by purgatory people mean the idea after death you are purified by Jesus through pain. Is there evidence of this? Micah 3 , Corinthians 3 mention after judgment and end of the world come Purification by fire. In revelation 6 we see those who after they died wash their robes, get new robes , have their name washed. Revelation has several groups of people. Some washed on earth, some in heaven , some given new robes, some washing their own etc.
The robes represent purity and sanctification and clearly this is after the died.
Can u show the bible verse where jesus said sins can be forgiven in the next life. Jesus never said that.
Bible also says NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER HEAVEN. So even liars cannot inherit heaven. Rev 22:15.
So this is the trouble with catholicism. Struggling n trying to explain rcc doctrines n dogmas tht contradict the bible. What a shame.
Luke 12:43 to 12:48 .
First servant is blessed (kingdom of God)
Second servant separated and his portion is with unbelievers ( Outer darkness,hell)
Third knew Lords will but didn't do it suffers many stripes.
Fourth didn't know the Lord's will, got few stripes.
How do you interpret scripture when in old testiment it mentions on day of the Lord , first Comes judgement of the nations then purification.
Revelation when it says some wash Their robes, some are given robes, some get blood on their robes, some have new robes in heaven snd other earth? This means purification post death.
Why does Jesus say heaven is for gathering then sorting. Mathew 14
Why does Jesus give a parable of master return , one servsnt thrown into fire,one chastised one rewarded?
@@sonicrocks2007 if you got cleansing after death from your church then then no need for Jesus to come.
@@sonicrocks2007 nowhere in the scriptures is stated what U interpret. Such a dangerous statement.
@dannyboy6598 no read revelation. It is through the blood of lamb do thr saints in heaven wash their clothing in his blood. After they died. That actually does mean they need Jesus. Read all of revelation and look at the white robes sections chapter 3, 5,6,8,22
Hebrews 9:27
Makes me sad that anyone would ever believe Jesus's blood was insufficient for purifying us from every sin, therefore needing purgatory to complete where He failed.
So, according to what you are saying: A baptized Christian who professes faith in Christ and go on a spree murdering, raping and stealing and then dies, will go to Heaven?
@@daishoo well, that is kind of an extreme example. But please tell me from your list, which sins Jesus did not die for?
@danbishop2468 It is sad indeed. But it is the logical conclusion when you deny the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice to fully forgive you of your sins.
@@daishoo 1 John 3:4-10 shows that the works demonstrate whether someone has true saving faith or not. So the person going on a killing spree does not truly believe in Christ's sufficient sacrifice.
But if that person truly repented after the killing spree, then yes they would be saved
@@daishoo I think it's also important to note that Paul addresses this in his letters, "Shall we sin that grace may abound? By no means!" The implication being that, even though Christ "has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" we should by no means set aside God's commandments.
"biblical proof" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"LOTR proof that Frodos feet are hairy"
You can listen to catholic answers or to The Truth.
The Catholic Church teaching IS THE TRUTH
-former Protestant who studied my way into the Catholic Church
@@JesusfoundedCatholicChurch Read Jeremiah 44:16-25. It directly condemns any form of worship or adoration of " The Queen of Heaven." The catholic church calls Mary The Queen of Heaven. The great harlot of chapter 17 in Revelation is the catholic church who leads it's followers against God. You have been warned and have no excuse.
@@JesusfoundedCatholicChurch I second that
@@francissweeney7318 Queen of Heaven😜😜
Much is made of the title Queen of Heaven by those who attack Catholicism and Marian devotion. The allusion is always to the pagan pantheons and to the mother of the gods, often mother in a very carnal sense of other pagan deities. The Canaanite worship of the "Queen of Heaven" condemned by the prophets is mentioned, as is the worship of Diana of the Ephesians, devotion to whom was exceeding popular before the Gospel arrived among the pagans. It is said that Catholicism at the Council of Ephesus restored this pagan devotion under the cover of devotion to Mary. The history of that Council given above shows the absurdity, and the intellectual dishonesty, of that claim! One might as well claim with respect to Jesus that Christians worship a mere man, since to arrive at this conclusion the Church's teaching must be ripped from its context and distorted to fit a preconceived judgement.
What then does it mean for Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? In the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne.
The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation,
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)
Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.
[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)
That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ
The woman spoken of in Revelation 12 is Mary. A few observations:
• The woman is a great sign and appears in heaven. This is the Catholic view of Mary--that she has an important role in heaven and in the plan of redemption.
• She is clothed with the sun, has the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars. In the passage in Gen 37:9-10 the sun, moon and stars bow down to Joseph. This point is often missed by commentators. Therefore, Mary has a role similar to Joseph's in providing redemption to God's people. Joseph "saved" the Israelites and ruled over them just as Mary "saves" the church and rules over it.
• Mary gives birth to the Messiah. This is the only literal meaning of the text.
• Satan was cast down to earth as a result of events surrounding Christ's birth. Satan went after the child Jesus with a vengeance as we see in Herod's decree to kill the children.
• Mary escapes to the desert--to Egypt, for safety and to protect Jesus. She was there for three and a half years.
• Jesus was snatched up to God and His throne at His ascension.
• Satan was unable to harm the child Jesus so he went off to destroy the rest of Mary's offspring. Notice who these are--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Mary's other offspring are the church. She had no other children other than Jesus. She is the spiritual mother of the church.
The catholic answer is called "Bible".
The book made by Catholics for Catholics
The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is all you need to understand that once you die your fate is sealed. God doesn't give "second chances" he makes it clear that it is appointed once for man to die then the judgement. Purgatory "The Half Way House" doesn't exist.
Purgatory isn’t a second chance after you die. The souls in purgatory are all guaranteed Heaven.
Those who are in Purgatory go to Heaven eventually.
It is not a second chance like Indeedtruth1 mentioned below.
Exactly@@Ineedtruth1
@@Ineedtruth1 why did you become catholic?
@@everything9466 The short version of the story is my Catholic friends kept asking questions about Scripture that I couldn’t answer such as “What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples that whatever sins they forgive will be forgiven and whatever sins they retain will be retained?” And when I asked my dad (Baptist pastor with a Master’s degree in theology) the same question his answers never made sense.
Sorry, not buying into your reasoning.
How do you interpret scripture when in old testiment it mentions on day of the Lord , first Comes judgement of the nations then purification.
Revelation when it says some wash Their robes, some are given robes, some get blood on their robes, some have new robes in heaven snd other earth? This means purification post death.
Why does Jesus say heaven is for gathering then sorting. Mathew 14
Why does Jesus give a parable of master return , one servsnt thrown into fire,one chastised one rewarded?
After reviewing what Catholic writers have said regarding such texts as 2 Maccabees 13:39-45, Matthew 12:32, and 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, NOT Sacred Scripture.”
“What goes on in purgatory is anyone’s guess.” “The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.” (U.S. Catholic Magazine)
Can you please give the full quotation of this supposed magazine? Because ZERO educated Catholic would EVER (and I mean ever) name purgatory a “middle ground” between hell and heaven simply because this is utter Protestant nonsensical and ignorant strawman. Besides, I’ve personally checked the Catholic Encyclopedia on the “purgatory” entrance and, just as predictably, no such sentence was found there.
You should stop following the Father of Lies, abandon error, repent and convert, my friend.
God bless you!
Oh, by the way: with love from a Brazilian 🇧🇷 friend. God bless!
@@masterchief8179 Nice to find a fellow citizen from the Land of the Holy Cross here!
Maybe reread 2 Maccabees.
The Bible is actually tradition too though lol
Jesus told the thief on the cross, “tonight you will be with me in paradise”.
Catholics call Jesus a liar because the thief clearly didn’t do any works to earn salvation nor spend time in purgatory.
It pretty clear cut.
Are you a follower of Christ and what he said or an anti-Christ.
It is impossible to know whether or not the “good thief” went “straight to heaven” or had to undergo Purgatory. We cannot really judge that. It could be that he died in a state of perfect contrition for his sins and received baptism of desire.
A larger issue is that the Greek manuscripts that contain this passage do not contain punctuation. So did Jesus say to him: “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise” OR “Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.” Punctuation makes a big difference, although, it seems more likely to be the first, but who knows.
Another issue is whether in this case “paradise” means heaven. It could also refer to the abode of the dead for the righteous, the bosom of Abraham. In which case the gates of heaven would not have been opened yet until the resurrection, so they would have been together in the abode of the righteous and the good thief still could have undergone some purgation before receiving the Beatific Vision. While this is a highly contested theory of the use of “paradise” it is still debated.
And, most importantly, since the cleansing of Purgatory takes place outside of space and time as we currently know them then the concept of today, tomorrow, or whenever in relation to Purgatory is not a one-to-one analogy.
Generally speaking the most common understanding of the passage has been that the good thief went “straight to heaven” due to his perfect contrition for his sins, but some other theories are also acceptable to the faith.
@@MallettMotion
Considering Jesus never mentions purgatory or anything like it, plus it just completely doesn’t make any sense because Jesus’s blood cleanses those who believe/rely/trust in him.
So if his blood has washed you clean then what would be the need of purgatory.
You don’t believe in the cleansing power of his blood to give you true rebirth?
The whole logic of baptism through blood is that it cleans you and you are born a new(clean).
You either accept that or not.
@@user-fl9ps8xf2y It doesn’t matter whether or not _Jesus_ said it. There’s plenty of things that Jesus didn’t say but are believed because it is mentioned in other parts of the bible. You must remember that the _whole_ bible is the inspired word of God, thus, in a sense, Jesus (being God) _did_ indicate purgatories existence since He technically “wrote” the bible. Jesus never says that Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant, nor does He say that He is the new Adam, yet we accept these notions because it is mentioned/implied elsewhere.
“… Jesus’ blood cleanses those who believe/rely/trust in Him.”
I agree. But, do humans sin? Yes, quite often, and sin shows a _lack_ of faith/reliance/trust in Jesus, because we are forfeiting Christ’s promise of salvation for the false promise of earthly fulfillment. Jesus does cleanse and forgive us, and His blood made it possible for us to obtain eternal life, but this doesn’t mean that our actions don’t have eternal consequences. When we sin it’s like we’re sticking a nail in our hearts (I have a lot), and when He forgives us it’s like He pulls that nail out, but we still have a hole there, we still need healing. In other words, we still have yet to be _perfected_ before entering heaven. Tell me, who by the end of there life will have Jesus _completely_ resting on the throne of their hearts? I highly suspect that no one will, unless you’re a martyr (since they literally give up everything they have and are for Jesus) and do not need purgation. Revelation tells us nothing unclean shall enter heaven, and the majority of us will not be spotless by the time we die.
It’s a valid question though: If Christ’s sacrifice is perfect and infinitely atones for sin, then why is purgatory even necessary? It’s necessary because Christ’s perfect sacrifice must be _applied_ to each individual in different ways. Those who reject Christ’s offer of salvation, for example, won’t have the saving effects of Christ sacrifice apply to them. Believers who are attached to sin in this life will have the effects of Christ sacrifice applied to them after death in purgatory. Theologians like pope Benedict XVI have even speculated that the cleansing fire of purgatory is none other than Christ. He writes:
“Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ Himself, the Judge and Savior. The encounter with Him is the decisive act of judgment. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms, and frees us, allows us to become truly ourselves.”
Isn’t that beautiful? Purgatory doesn’t take away from Christ’s work, but rather _it is Christ’s work._ It is not something the church created in order to force people to work their way into heaven. Purgatory is instead something God created so that the grace His Son obtained for us on the cross could make us “holy and blameless and irreproachable before Him“ (Col. 1:22), free from the pain and penalty of sin, and ready to enter into eternal glory with Christ our Lord.
“ The existence of a purgatory I have never denied. I still hold that it exists, as I have written and admitted many times.” - Martin Luther.
@@user-fl9ps8xf2y I replied to your comment, but I think it’s hidden. Just hit “newest” in the comments section, then find our thread and you should see my comment there.
There is no Biblical proof of purgatory. As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture." So, then, is there any Biblical proof on purgatory? Uh, NO!
Exactly it was invented for popes to be greedy and get money
The concept/idea of Purgatory IS Biblical. However, the same cannot be said of Sola Scriptura.
@@littleone1656 purgatory isn’t biblical. Literally not a single church father interpreted any of the verses y’all use to support purgatory. Sola Scriptura is a claim about God and the Bible. Tell me what else is the inherent infallible inspired word of God apart from scripture? Don’t be like Horn during the debate and just say that tradition is the word of God because it’s the word of God and use circular reasoning rofl. Go ahead. Prove your tradition is infallible word of God.
@ProtestantKing7 Tradition is what the Apostles used BEFORE the Bible existed to teach and spread the faith. Everything that came from the Apostles ultimately came from God. Eventually these teachings that were given orally were written down by the early Christians know as the Church Fathers. These writings predate the Bible. And you're incorrect - they DID write about purgatory, which means the early Christians were taught and believed in it.
@@littleone1656 "Tradition is what the Apostles used BEFORE the Bible existed to teach and spread the faith."
Did you bother to read below the video frame where it says: "Biblical proof for purgatory"? So, if purgatory is Biblical [which it's not], why would you say the apostles taught by way of tradition BEFORE the Bible existed? So, which is it? Did the apostles get the purgatory doctrine from the Bible or did they get it from tradition? You can't have it both ways. BTW, purgatory is a Catholic doctrine, NOT a Bible doctrine. As I have already by quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia, "The Catholic doctrine of purgatory is based on tradition, not from Sacred Scripture."
This has proved Nothing. This has Not proved there is a place called purgatory. If it existed, don't you think Jesus would have mentioned it at least once.
Not biblical bro. I’ve heard these arguments so many times and used them as a catholic myself. Purgatory is blasphemous. You’re literally reading purgatory into the text… if I gave the Bible to 1,000 people, would anyone one of them come to the conclusion that the passages Catholics use for purgatory teaches a purgatory ? They would all be confused.
Same thing can be said of the word Trinity. Just bc it's not EXPLICITLY written, doesn't mean it's not there or untrue. However, I'll tell you what's NOT Biblical and what's NOT mentioned either explicitly or implicitly - Sola Scriptura.
@@littleone1656 Nobody made the argument that the word needs to be explicit…. You did. The trinity is found in the Bible & in early Christianity. It’s an authentic Christian doctrine handed down to Christian’s by God. You know what isn’t ? Purgatory. Not in the slightest. Purgatory is unheard of. Oh yes, making the Bible the only infallible rule of faith, completely wrong huh, so tell me, what else is equal to the word of God as God breathed and inspired?
If you gave the Bible to 1,000 people, you'd wind up with 1,000 versions of Christianity based on their own interpretations of what it has to say on any variety of topics - and this is exactly why there are countless Protestant denominations and churches, none of them agreeing on what the Bible teaches. That's why all Christians were generally united (even with the Orthodox!) until the 16th century - and why Jesus left us a Church, not a Bible.
@@ProtestantKing7the Church founded by Jesus Christ and promised never to fail. You know the Church that was responsible for preserving scripture for the last 2000 years
@@littleone1656 right 100%, bc if u give a 1000 people a Bible, they wouldn't be able to Define the Trinity, that God is three persons in one, so this is evidence that it was the Holy Spirit who was the one who showed the Catholic church this Revelation, which Protestants just copied & past it into their religion. Then they act like Catholic teachings are not Biblical, when it's them who has hardened their hearts, for they can't see Catholic theology, just like the Pharisees couldn't understand Jesus Christ. Then prots try to teach that Catholics have man-made Traditions, when it's them who started a new gospel in their Churches in the 16th century, all creating 1000s of diff man-made doctrines... Then they don't trust the Catholic church for nothing, but then they trust the Bible alone that was canonized by the Catholic Church, for their final authority in their Churches for salvation 🤦🏻♂️
What a twisting of scripture
Only true if you have a shallow, illogical and unreasonable understanding of scriptures
@@essafats5728 sure
What part exactly
Purgatory was taught and believed by the early Christian Church so no, not a twist at all.
such hypocrisy