No-start, Lean condition: 50cc Scooter -Part 1
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2016
- To celebrate the end of this non-winter, here is a fun diagnosis on a screamin' 2-wheel machine.
Even on something as simple as this 50cc 2-stroke scooter, there are still many variables that make the diagnosis fun and educational.
No fancy scopes in this video...just some good old fashioned seat-of-the pants troubleshooting :)
Enjoy! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Great video! I just learned some stuff I've been thinking about for 20 years. Thank you
put the choke solenoid on the bench on white paper mark a line at the end of the needle. connect 12v to it the needle should move either in or out if not it is shot.
I'm fiddling this little buzzers since 13 years old,being 38now. They are so much fun. :)) Glad to see you in to them.
The way those auto chokes work is when the bike is cold the choke plunger is fully retracted which is on. when the bike is started the choke is supplied with AC current which then makes the plunger slowly extend out to turn off the choke passage. thats why you didnt get any power to it because otherwise if you left the ignition on for a while a cold bike would be hard to start. The choke would even work unplugged so long as the bike is cold.
My 50cc scooter start instantly if I squeeze the throttle a little bit, otherwise its very hard to start. Do you think its the autochoke?
Solid troubleshooting, on to part two!
Nice, i love working on these small systems when i have the opportunity, although they can be tricky sometimes, but overall fun, like putting a small puzzle together
My taotao 5occ has spark,compression&feul. Have set timing,valves turning over but refuses to start. What am i missing?
Chinese bikes are a real headache
Nice deductive thought process Ivan. I got a little chuckle when you said, "There's something definitely wrong."
+stuzman52 Haha well that's one thing I WAS sure of :) Thanks for the comment, Terry!
Very good video! You are very informative and articulate. Keep making videos👍👌
This is so interesting for a complete novice to watch. Mechanics should really get paid a lot more than they do because without them no one would be able to get to work and make their own paycheck. You made this so newbie friendly and this is something that Ill know how to check on my scooter if it ever presents these symptoms and it might save me a trip to warranty work.
Mechanics get paid PLENTY dont worry.
That was different and fun to watch best of luck
Excellent -- learned a lot-- Parts 1 and 2.. Very well done and explained.
Hi Ivan, I am an auctioneer, in the past few years I have sold several of those Asian scooters, none had more than a few hundred miles, none ran, so this one is par for course. Nice to see ya tryin to make this one run, Thanks
Maintanence is huge. In asia these scooters do tens of thousands of miles.
excellent info I learned about my tao tao 50 scooter! Wish you could come and repair mine, you're great. Found the replacement fuel pump on Amazon! Can't wait to get my machine running again!
Ivan, those 2-stroke engines will have starting and running problems after a long stay without using. That is because the lubricating oil will clogg in the carburator and choke, so one have to clean the carburetor for sure. The same counts for the old 2-stroke of my boat. Succes.
I had this on a J range Lambretta, turned out to be a block fuel tank filter situated inside the tank, was hacked up and was blocking the carb repeatedly..
Great introduction on how to ? Much was learned 👍
If you put the filter back on , it will give you the resistance of air you need to maintain the mixture. All these Small bikes mainly run off the magneto, the battery is for starting. Be careful not to run a 2stroke for too long on starting spray, as they need oil in the mix.
The battery on those have nothing to do with starting. That is a magneto ignition not a battery and coil
nice running too lean diagnostic trick with the hand over the carb mouth. :)
Fun to watch and informative as always Ivan. I love that two stroke sound. Watching this reminds me, I've got three carbs to clean. The Hot Rod Minibike carb, trimmer carrb, and mower carb. It's a yearly ritual even though I religiously use StaBil.
Bravissimo, bel video sia prima che seconda parte, inscritto naturalmente :)
Great video buddy
Those jets in those little carbs plug up like clock work especially with corn fuel . Replace the jets and if the owner is going to let it sit get real gas for it and throw in some Techron . TheReaper!
Almost spring, it's almost summer here in AZ.
i have a slightly different varient of that scooter, 2007 model - 2 stroke - you have to hold the brake lever while pressing the starter button... also I let mine sit for a long time (6 months ish) and it was pretty hard to start even with electric starter - had to use some spray in the intake to get it running, but after tweaking the idle screw a bit and running it every day for a couple days it starts first pop
Great Job!
I had a full size car battery in the helmet box, jumping over speed bumps smashed the cold start thing off, I used to just put my thumb over it😊❤️🇬🇧
Thanks man. Much appreciated
Actually the automatic choke doesn't work how you're describing it. It's not really a choke at all. Before you start the scooter an enrichment circuit that allows extra fuel through the carb is open. When u start the scooter the auto choke slowly drops down a needle which eventually plugs the circuit. So if the engine isn't warmed up by riding it before that needle finishes dropping the scooter will die, especially if you don't have an air filter on like yours, the air/fuel ratio will way out of wack
Super interesting dude
Oh my god this is the answer I think he just said my exact life story at the begging I really hope it’s the same problem
Can you imagine the look on the salesmans face when A guy wheeled this thing in wanting to trade it in. Haaa
hi thanks for answer ,its a brand new carb .should i try still try to jetted , if do can you show me how ?thanks
Speedometer looks similar, would bolt up to my 2003 MZ Moskito SX, however I guess they were junk seeing as how the one on that TGB Keywest went bad a little faster than mine. Ill probably remove the trim holding it and get something digital bolted up to a nice new handlebar.
When I was around 15 my neighbor had a 50cc Yamaha scooter that wouldn't start. I verified it had spark and enough fuel so the problem turned out to be that the fuel bowl had deposits in the jets so I cleaned it out and it started right up.
I've got 90cc dismantled, with some of its parts in a box although im not an specialist I know I didnt get all the parts and I can't get it to run especially I believe that I got some sort of connecter missing that must be pretty closed to the battery and coonected to the CDI. any idea what could it be?
it is a coild that heat up a termal element and lift a needle or drop it down.and it does not get power from bat but dynamo
hello Ivan how did you figure the carborator vs a big air leak?
Great diag, but these things stock jetted notoriously run like shit without the air box restriction, I am confused by the crazy effort but excited to see the conclusion.
Make love to that carburetor brother, (11:00) great video.
Actually the automatic choke, AKA, the enricher heats up and pushes a plunger that pushes a needle that closes a port. Search for "testing enricher" and you'll see how it works.
Where is the check engine light and data link connector , lol . Kinda curious to see the inside of the carb . I think that thing lets fuel go through it until warm then closes . Sounds like it is only getting fuel through the Enrichner till it closes and then not getting fuel through main jet .
+wtbm123 Great theory. You will see the issue in Part 2!
Or not let it sit for years without use. I have several vintage bikes and after the initial cleaning, they never had carb issues. I don't use any fuel stabilizers or additives over winter either. Just regular 87 gas.
I see this is vid #1...But i'm going to drop my comment now. Many of these have a vacuum operated fuel pump to fill the carb bowl. Old fuel and varnish may have clogged the ports. It may not be connected/missing. Passages within the carb itself may be plugged with varnish as well. Most have a 3 jet fuel metering system, idle jet, part throttle jet, Main jet. Clean all of them.
Along with ALL the fuel and air passages within the carb body. Replace the fuel pump if it had one. Check the crank case half's for air leaks - if applicable. Reed block to case leaks as well. Replace the choke coil - low buck item. Clean ALL the old gas from the tank,brakleen it. If it has an oil pump to feed pre mix oil -don't use it. Run with oil in the main tank mixed yourself. Set up the idle mixture and it should run like new 1st kick every time. New spark plug will help with that......
My scoot was given to me. It's 15 years old, sat for years with nasty gas in it. An Italian bike better quality overall than the Asian imports.Went over it top to bottom, it runs like new even with 4k miles on the cylinder 55 + mph after tweeking.
Hi man, have you experienced fixing 2 stroke 50cc scooters that when not warmed up from hours of not being used or from coldstart every morning, it will bog down on 1/2 to full throttle if i use it straight away? But when i warm it up for 10mins it will be fine to use with no bogs. It's a pain if your in a hurry. Seen some scooters and they seem to just ride it straight away. Would that be issues with not enough fuel on carb or float bowl? Changing needle clip position? Or any other? Thanks man for any help.
Next on the list, the good ole Honda 50cc, the only model with external heating capacity. It achieves this extraordinary feat by catching fire to the engine enroute to your destination. A piece of clothing can be used as a fire extinguisher to quell the flames without ever having to reduce speed. God be with the days.
Hı I'm driving a 150cc gomoto yesterday and it don't want to start in the morning. Got spark and gas and battery is new. Tested the coldstart and it works. Don't have a kick starter. Can you asist please
Haha Ivan, you can add Golden Bee Ltd. scooter to your resume :)
Hello there, I have a 50cc Chinese scooter with only 23km on it. Over the winter something very strange -to me - happened and have no idea what it could be.
When I start the bike and press the breaks lever as required for it to start - it accelerates the bike and the tire starts spinning?
But when I use the accelerator the tire does not move at all- Any ideas??
I checked the accelerator cables but all seems ok? Any idea what I would need to check. Thanks!!
what you do? my scooter start but don't want to stay on what should I check on first?
put the air cleaner back ..put all the hose to all to its original hole..to make the electric start work u have to press the brake while pressing the start buttton.
Sang I used synthetic in my oil injector is there somewhere too drain my oil cell
Lux
Thks four your excellent video I have a Piaggio Zip 50cc 2T everthing fine till a teck 3 weeks holiday when I’m came I try to start the scooter is hard to start so is ok now when I try to drive is not accept the acceleration any help please thank you very much
I,Now i am watched this video and Now i am subscribed!
Welcome!
2 minutes in I am thinking dirty carb, pull it off and clean the main jet, and check fuel supply to carb.
Sad to say, as someone who does local small engine repair, I now find that it's easier once the carb is isolated as the problem just to buy a new one and swap it out. It's easier and less expensive than buying a rebuild kit, pulling it apart, dropping the needle valve, losing the float pin, etc... not to mention labor. I've gotten it down to a science: 1. Isolate fuel as problem 2. Buy new carburetor 3. Install carburetor 4. Profit
Also, I just want to run this by someone else to make sure it sounds right: My lawn tractor (sounds manlier than garden tractor) has an electromagnetic PTO clutch, which has been acting fucky for about a year. The engagement points are fine- they aren't worn down anywhere near where it would warrant replacement- so the conclusion I came to was that somehow I had lost some of the windings in the magnet. Question 1 is is this possible, question 2 is how would one go about testing such a hypothesis? The only thing I thought of so far was to check resistance and compare it to a new one...
Sorry for asking such a boring, basic question. Unfortunately, is about as interesting as it gets in upstate NY for a sophomore in high school. Fortunately I got a job this summer at a nearby garage... maybe next summer I'll see if Eric over at SMA could use a shop bitch haha
Hey Ben, yeah sometimes it's easier to just buy a new part. But is it set up exactly like the original in terms of jet sizes and needle settings? Personally I find it fun to do a little carb cleaning. It takes maybe 15 minutes for a simple setup like this, and I don't have to wait for parts! Usually it's just the pilot fuel jet that clogs up a bit from the ethanol...no need to buy a whole new unit when that's the only problem.
As far as the PTO, it is possible for the coil windings to short out and cause less solid engagement. You need to measure the current draw of the unit when it works and when it's acting up. If you don't have an amp clamp, at least monitor the voltage at the PTO with a voltmeter and make sure it maintains 12V when it's acting up. Then you definitely need a new magnet coil.
Waiting for a new carb meanwhile leaning more towards shooting the bastard
I will guess and say either crank seal or gasket between cylinder and reed valve.
I just bought a 2007 model, the battery was dead, I’m charging it right now, connected a lawnmower battery to it and have the oil light on!!! What does that mean and how do I solve this problem?
im so happy i just got a 150cc scooter for trade for a walmart pellet gun and $75
nice PA. I live in near Lancaster PA
Check for plugged carb vent line, common hideout for bug nests. Venting issue.
+Scott Puopolo Great point! Forgot to mention this in the process. Vent was clear in this case :)
My tao50 refuses to start although it has the required 3
tell me that electric choke is not my problem there a wire that is unplug but don't know where it go to?
My does the same thing yours is doing and my battery is dead from messing with it .... I wish I had someone to come fix mine
There is a vacuum line running from the carb to a fuel regulator. Could be cracked
question: how did he get it to you?
iff all electric is okand carburetter is ok choke etc is ok.it can be main bearings or seals in engine bottom.the choke uses a little time for it to move so what you did is not a test of choke.you aply power direct to the choke and wait for15sec or so to se it moves and get varm to hold.
Hold the left brake lever then start with the button.
Tgb for life🤘🏻
Need to hold the brake and the electric start would work
You can also bypass the starter solenoid by shorting out the two terminals on it, to test the starter.
And make sure the kickstand it up or it won't start
its not supposed to click the solenoid on the carb. its supposed to move in slowly when power is applied. the auto choke is choking the carb when the engine has been off for a while and slowly un chokes after its been started.
Hey man where does that hose of the exhaust go
the idle jet is blocked?
Hum interesting for sure , Scotty would have said you should have bought a Yota. LOL
Loved your diagnostic routine: like me on my Ford Ranger. Where is a good place to buy scooter parts online? I am in the middle of nowhere just like you. Thanks.
Ebay
I wonder if the tank vent is clogged or closed
Got one that gas keeps getting in oil never could get it to start be fore gas went into oil what would it be .it fireing but still would not start
It's not a traditional solenoid though, it has a wax and an element in it and the wax is heated up when given current causing the hole to be blocked.
Good vid!! Subbed!
I've a 2 stroke Minarelli engine Buddy 50 scooter. It has a hard time starting - wants to start via the starter and dies UNLESS I open and hold the throttle wide open for awhile - then it runs ok.
Battery and plug appear ok, plenty of fuel. What's the problem and the solution, please? (Anyone with an experienced solution can answer)
Many thanks!
hi my name is joe , i have a taotao 50 cc ,i had problem it want started , i replace the carb it started but it wasn't working good tryed to adjust the mixter scruze i have it all way in and s and still no good it shots off , im cheking the plug and is black ,so im assumming is to rich ,should i replace the pilot jet with a smaller one or somithing else .thanks in advance
yo se el problema
I would say 90% of all small engine problems are caused from dirty old gas issues .
John McKamy I like that True Fuel stuff if you are going to only use for a few times a year the scooter I got was 4 stroke and runs great after I cleaned the carb and flushed the tank and petcock
John McKamy.
Adjust your throttle knob on carburetor or clear valves in carburetor or clean the carbon off the valves in engine head. You may be loosing compression.
Just keep the electric choke unplugged and problem "solved" haha
dirty carb lean give it more fuel. what was it?
hi my name is joe i have taotao 50 cc scooter wont start e replace the carb is running now but when i put it on the street and i open it up it don"T go fast after half trattol sound like it getting chock up and at full trottel the rpm dont came up ,any think i shoul do thanks in advance .
you have to get it jetted properly.
My 2017 Tao Tao 50cc does the same thing.
Any specs or even hints on setting the float correctly? I've looked and looked, but nothing anywhere, every how to video just shows disassembly and reassembly, no verification of float level. Any idea how to check if it's correct?
You mean the plastic float in the fuel bowl (not the metal throttle slide with the adjustable needle)? That has no adjustments. Older carbs with brass floats you could bend the tang a bit that pushes on the needle to close off the fuel. Hope that helps!
Yes the float in the float bowl, I was diagnosing a hard to start and run condition when cold and adjusted the float as it is the foam style with a brass tang for adjustment, I wanted to raise the fuel level in the bowl in case it was starving for fuel. It didn't help and I am trying to verify the float is set correctly now. I will likely use a hose to verify the fuel level when setup and see where the fuel level is currently and try different levels and hopefully hit the right setting. Thank for the video and your help. I will also check the valve adjustment as another site has identified that as a potential source of trouble, though I cannot reason why valve adjustment would create hard start condition, these machines are weird.
hmm Vapor lock? My bike gets it ..if I open my gas tank lid ..it goes away
The problem was a straight forward issue with the carburetor. All of the scooters you have to press the right or the left lever to start the engine. Don’t need to do an electrical diagnostic in my opinion.
How do I turn off my bike I have no key ignition I turn it on with kickstart but don’t how to turn it off !???????????? My bike is the same as yours .
How can I turn it off if my kill switch don’t work like yours it’s broken and it’s starts with kickstart but idk how to turn the motor off and turn it back on with no problem ? Please help would glaldly apreaceate ..
Fix your kill switch
no air filter ?
My scooter is peace sports 50cc scooter. When I hit the brake on the grip and try to start the scooter the fuel gauge goes down and it will not start. Can someone help me.
Ground issue
Hi there, based on your workings and my issue being the opposite symptoms, my starter choke solenoid must not be working. as mine wont idle and is near impossible to start when cold but when warm it s fine,
You have to hold the break on a scooter then push the starter
Okay Ivan confession time. How tempted where you to go for a spin and pop a wheelie? I willl have to have a look for these next time I am at the Chev dealer...lol I find that really odd that the fella got this scooter there, I know dealers take some weird trades but this would take the cake if that was the case. Maybe it was their lot vehicle.
at 1120 I call a clogged idle passage in the carb.
Tgb is known here in uk for making things that become a pain in the ass if they stop working
Its the jets I had the same issue
When you use the kickstart you also have to hold the left handbrake !! With key and switch turned on too. Maybe you knew that.
if the brake switch is not in the the handle(fell out ) do you need to hold the left handbrake? the switch is activated when you squeeze it.. i ask because i cant get mine started it has power and fuel and spark. it turned over and ran with spray and would kick start after it warmed up and ran for an hour or two a few days ago, but now i cant get it started ive been through the wiring harness carb coil grounds.. i cant figure it out
Hey i need to know to kick start My scooter when I try to kick start it the kick pedal won't move.
Is your engine seized up 😅
Where is part 2?
the choke does not click.
Mine is having trouble getting stated it’s not battery lol
Link for the wiring diagram please
The “solenoid” isn’t that
It’s actually a heated plunger with wax so when it gets 12v it warms up and closes the enrichment.
Reason you have 2 earths? Well you’re earthing thru the charge coil at the stator... so it’s really just an alternator and the “solution” is pretty much the alternator light?! Well it gets 12v only when running