Prusa XL - Unboxing and Setup
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- I finally got my new Prusa XL with dual tool-heads in the mail. I got it assembled and have some very early impressions of it. Since there's not much out there about the printer, I wanted to give my thoughts an impressions. There's a LOT of competition out there, especially at this price, so I'm trying to determine if it's worth buying an XL, or if there are better options out there. I have no affiliation with Prusa, just some past experience with their printers.
Prusa XL - www.prusa3d.com/product/origi...
My Favorite Tools - www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
Prusa XL Playlist - • Prusa XL
00:00 Intro
01:02 My Goals
05:02 Pricing/Cost
06:20 Box and Packaging
07:23 Assembly Overview
08:53 Assembly Challenges/Notes
10:48 Wire Management
12:02 Assembly Conclusion
13:34 Dual Extruder Calibration
14:55 Post Assembly Discussion
17:15 Downsides and Compromises
21:00 Load Cell Magic
23:02 Conclusion
24:09 First Layer Test Print
31:03 First Layer Conclusion - Jak na to + styl
as soon as you started speaking I was like... i know this voice. I am good at placing voices to movies and this was a challenge. but I remember in my 20s this voice was behind all the cool projects at sparkfun. Amazing to see you again pop up on my recommended because I own Prusa printers. you are like a staple in my world like a Mr. Rogers of sorts because I watched you so much. Cheers!
Awww, thanks so much. Pinned your comment. It's stuff like this that makes the CZcams grind worthwhile. Tell your friends, I've never really left CZcams.
Great review! No over reacting, no screaming ,no attempting to influence. Just a simple and honest review!
Looking forward for the next one!
I really appreciate that thank you!
Ha, right? I'm just trying to share my experience, I don't care if people love it or hate it. Thanks for understanding what I'm trying to do!
Really nice overview of the XL! For perspective, I have an E3D tool changer. For those who are unfamiliar with the tool changer, it is a hardcore printer not intended for faint of heart (or for those who enjoy pain and suffering). You have to assemble it yourself, plus spend dozens of hours getting it tuned and working as intended. And if you are one of those who say you got it up an operational will little effort, congratulations on being a giga-chad human 🙂. When you consider that time = money, the price point for the XL starts to look much more reasonable when considering its capabilities. If 3D printing is your hobby, then your time doesn't really matter. If 3D printing is a tool for a job, then the time saved is worth every penny. Thus, the XL is incredibly compelling, because it appears to solve many of the major issues with tool changers; e.g., step-by-step instructions on how to get it up and running quickly + top tier support. Maybe in a future video you can show the XL's ability to achieve perfect overhangs using soluble and PETG/PLA supports on PLA/PETG parts? Cheers!
I had a preorder on one of those, but realized it would take a LOT of work to get running. So yeah, that's kinda where I'm coming from too. This is FAR easier. I'll try soluble support for sure. Thanks!
THANK YOU FOR THIS. Honest and straight forward. I am waiting for my pre-order and this gives me a lot better level of expectation for the build and setup.
Keep in mind, others are having a slightly different experience. But from what myself and others have seen, the machine is good, it just has some bugs that need to get worked out. I am personally not really having any major issues with it though. More to come!
I bought a Mini because I'd read about the fabled Prusa user experience, and wasn't disappointed. I was put off the XL by the crazy lead times (and the price) but it ticks a lot of boxes for me, especially in the dual tool head configuration you have. By the time I'm ready for one it'll probably be the "XLS+" but at least they should have smoothed off the rough edges and added things like input shaping. Great breakdown.
Thanks! Yeah, the Mini was a great printer for me, just a bit small.
That load-cell leveraged lack of needing to tune live-z is why I jumped on the MK4. I don't have any experience with it yet as my Mk4 (kit) is only about half assembled. But, I'm really looking forward to not having to tune live-z (or remember to select the pre-tuned live-z sheet variable on my MK3S+) when swapping sheets. Or recalibrating all my live-z offsets when I swap nozzles.
I've printed something that's nearly the whole build plate, and I pressed print from my office and came back when it was done. With the textured build plate, you can't even see lines on the first layer, it's perfect. The load cell nozzle is legit. I need to test it more though.
This video helped me decide. Thank you.
What did you decide?
@@RobertCowanDIY I think I am going to start with a BambuLab A1 mini, then eventually upgrade to a Prusa XL.
@@indyjons321Yeah, that's probably a solid choice. The XL is a specialized machine and not really a 'daily driver'.
Definitely agree about cable management, Prusa cables are always hard to package into the space they provide, and a little more space would certainly be appreciated.
We’ve had the same configuration in our shop for two weeks now. Your video and experience are accurate to our experience. Wiring has always been a bit precious, they should probably work on that a bit, but once its done its fine. Might add build quality is closer to an industrial machine than consumer.
Good to know! I meant to mention the build quality, but it really is significnatly more 'robust' than any other 3d printer I've had (other than the Stratasys). It's build more like my CNC machines than a normal 'consumer-friendly' 3d printer.
@@RobertCowanDIY Agree, it has more in common with my CNC router than it does with a Prusa Mk3
You hit the nail on the head with a lot of engineering and even documentation issues. People who are constantly deeply involved with something tend to overlook things that would be a problem for someone who has never seen it before. This leads to a lot of missing information in documentation as well as like you experienced parts that are not exactly user-friendly for someone who's never dealt with them before.
Agreed. Sometimes you need to just step back from it, or give it to someone who's never seen it before. That being said, I went into it knowing I was making a video. Nothing was a show-stopper, I just had to re-read a couple sections. I'm sure in a few months it will all be ironed out.
Awesome video thanks a lot! A detailed printquality comparison between all the new printers would be great! Not only at fast speeds but also at slow speeds to max out print quality for high quality parts (where the printspeed doesnt matter as much as the looks)
I'm planning to print a few things with various filaments to show what it can do. I'm just going to do PETG, PLA and TPU for right now.
I have been running a MK4 for a few months. Both in std mode and with each of the alpha versions of input shaper which is now at release candidate. On a fairly large model of a mutli-compartment tool rack run with and without IS here are the results. (without IS 12 hr 13 min) (with IS 7 hr 35 min) I find IS to be remarkably faster. Print quality on both modes very good. First layer with load sensor is spectacular. this and my older Prusa are truly press print and walk away. I hope you get IS for the XL soon and you speed gains are equivalent.
I look for to more videos as i have an XL spec'ed just like yours but have not converted the order yet wanting see some real world feedback.
Nice, thanks for the info! I doubt it will ever be as fast as the Bambu, but that's not really my prime goal here. I want something I can press print from my office and just come back when it's done. In fact, I did that just last night and haven't even looked at it since I pressed print. One sec.... yep, print was already loose after cooling down and was perfect. First layer has no detectable lines. That's what I want, I just want something that I can walk away from and not think about.
I'm still waiting for my XL and I am happy to see videos from you about this printer in a functional prints context.
Getting more and more information about this printer I can't really find a lot about the maximum print temp.
I can imagine that it has a maxtemp error of 295 and I find this a bit annoying in comparison to the MK3S+, because it is 10 degrees less and can lead to some problems with very technical filaments like PA6CF and stuff.
Have you tried reaching out to the max temps?
I haven't tried anything high temp yet, but it says the max extruder temp is 300C. I guess the good news is you could always have a higher temp toolhead in addition to others. I guess that's why I like the tool changer concept, you can mix and max different extruder types.
Super helpful, I have been waiting to see more before I decide to pay for the remainder of my pre order. Totally disappointed they still haven't followed through on anything they promised, not even an official release. I am definitely now waiting until they actually finish what I pre-ordered. I have the same use plan as you. I haven't even seen any documentation on how to use solluable supports. Please keep the vids coming, would be great to see the web interface. How is the nozzle ooze with PETG? My MK3 I needed to tune the wipe volume and speed G code and still needed to watch the beginning on the print with PETG.
To be fair, they followed through on SOME of the things, just not all the things. And the most critical thing is input shaping. Without it, I've seen others have really ringy parts and big stuff can take forever. I'll do more testing and let you know how everything goes. Regarding soluble supports, there is a chapter in the manual about it that explains everything.
Awesome video. Well spoken notes and concerns. Late pre order in Dec. 2022 so seems I have a wait 31:54
Thanks!
Two things - the print speed comparison, while somewhat relatively interesting, is also kinda confusing. I get what you're trying to explain - I just don't think that approach is very effective at communcating the speed difference to as many people as possible. Also, the mention of Bambu not being able to fully melt plastic at full speed is just wrong. Perhaps with default profiles, but all you have to do is up extrusion temp or decrese the cooling fans and nice shiny/fully melted look and strength comes back. Your critique makes it sound like Bambu is just not actually capable of printing fully strong parts at high-speeds. Bambu does have 0.6 nozzle, you should reprint your speed test print with same nozzle size and layer height and see how times compare.
CNC Kitchen does a good video on this and finds that with the default print profiles on Bambu, strength comes at a cost to speed.
Correct thinking of the same video
Robert, really appreciated the video. Exactly the type of feed back I was hoping to see. Thank you. Btw, I'm not sure if you had already notice an issue with the video during post. It appears you have a hot pixel that is glowing red. At first I thought it was my monitor, but after switching a few content around it was certain the hot pixel was on your recording device. it's very noticeable against your shirt. At 23:46 (example) it is directly under your right armpit. Sorry to be bearer of bad news....
Oh, I'm aware. This is an older Sony A7RII and when it heats up I get stuck pixels. Once the camera cools down, they go away. I'll be upgrading soon though, I've had this camera forever and it's time for an upgrade.
I pre-ordered a kit version of the XL and an upgrade kit to a MK3.9 for one of my two mk3's, which I'm using semi-professional. The XL is to replace a Voron 2.4, which is not reliable enough and does not print multi material. I was in doubt if I should cancel the order and buy a Bambu Carbon X1 with AMS, but seeing this video I'm glad I did not. The XL looks so much more sturdy and reliable and is much more quit. The printers are in my office, so sound is important. The XL seems to be the right choice for semi-professional use.
This guy gets it! The XL is very polarizing. Some people get it, others do not. I think in a semi-professional environment where 3d printing isn't a 'hobby', but rather just something you need to do, it makes sense. I really need to play with the tool changer more, but so far that works exactly as advertised.
For robot combat, it seems like most people switched from CR-10's and Markforged printers to Bambu XIC's. I think it's performance with CF Nylons and CF-PC will be interesting to see. This isn't quite a portable printer either. There's also nothing about the bellows for semi-enclosing the chamber like they showed off at the early versions, there are people designing their own enclosures now. Also it's not quite open source yet, I'm hoping they do update the repositories with their CAD and firmware and schematics.
Yeah, the Bambu is great for events. I still think if you need to 3d print something at a competition, you've made some bad decisions somewhere ;-) (with the exception of BB where you have the actual time to do so). I think Bambu is still great, just not the printer for me. It's like saying, "tesla is the best car and everyone should have it". That doesn't account for preference and use-case.
@@RobertCowanDIY Do you have any concerns due to the chinese activity on the printables site, and the danger of connecting to chinese cloud servers?
@@Shadrackc Can you define "chinese activity"? I'm not aware of what you're talking about.
@RobertCowanDIY you must live under a rock!
@@3dcarbonuk243 Exactly. Robert, you need to tune in to the PRC and actually read what Josef said about what Bambu tried to do.
Wow that first layer is good
It really is pretty great. I need to test it more and with lighter filament that shows up better on camera, but you can basically take a magnified image of the first layer and it's flawless, corner to corner.
Thanks for the Video,
What kinda of table do you have ( I like yours), and what size does it need to be?
It's from Rockler. It's their 'Rock-Steady' tool stand. I have a few of them around the shop, I typically use this one for doing videos and such. They're pretty heavy duty and you can get them in many sizes. I think you need at least 24" depth. If you're putting it on a stand in the open like this, 24" is fine. If it's enclosed (in a closet or something, 32" would be better to allow for the LCD in front and room in the back). For width, you'd want at least 24", just to be able to access the spools. If you have more tool heads, you'll want more room, maybe 32" width would be better.
Awesome video!!🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks 🔥
@@RobertCowanDIY 👍👍💯💯
Would it be possible to detach the toolhead cables from the ptfe tube so they can be put horizontally in a cable chain and mount the filament incl. filament sensor above the printer?
Eh, not without some work. The strain relief is built into the design, and they're made to be in the upside down U configuration. You'd have to do some designing to make the filament path come from above.
I'm curious about how well the XL handles large prints with soluble supports... Would love to see a video about that from you! Great review! Thanks!
I absolutely want to try this, I bought some PVA to try it out. It won't be in the next video, but the one after that will cover soluble supports. The next video is going to be all about multi-material printing.
@@RobertCowanDIY can't wait!
@@kennedyjones1510The PVA should show up today, I need need to test it out. But I think I'm done testing multi-material (at least initially). Check back this Sunday!
Good video. For me the X1C has been great with some of the simple upgrades like changing to a .6 nozzle E3D hi flow (waiting on my revo version for the X! series) and a lightyear garolite build plate and extruder. I don't use the ams on the machine much because I use a A1 with the ams lite to do my color prints since I think the ams lite works better than the original ams. I got the XL 5 head that I will be putting together for multimaterial prints and the size is a good fit as well. I will be using them for separate use cases the X1Cs will be doing the quick prints for my Etsy shop while the XL will be used for multi material while my pantheon HS3 does the precision prints.- So like everything else use the correct tool for the job. I really wanted a diabase machines H5 400 as my tool changer but unfortunately they went out of business.
Nice. I've had OK luck with the X1C. The more I use it, the more I like the XL for larger prints and for PLA. I haven't had great luck with PETG so far, but I'm starting to just dislike PETG as a material in general, so I guess that's OK.
I'm really curious as to what kind of volumetric flow that single gear nextruder is capable of, with or without a Bondtech CHT. I am convinced that the
This is something I want to play around with. They are claiming they will release a high flow nozzle later, we'll have to see. I need to try the flow test from CNC kitchen and see what I get. In the slicing example, it SEEMS to at least roughly match the volumetric flow that Bambu has (when they use a 0.4mm nozzle, XL using a 0.6mm). Not apples to applies I understand, but it gives me a rough starting point. I need to test this more. The slicer DOES support 0.8mm nozzles.
@@RobertCowanDIYOh crap, I forgot you cant just install a bondtech CHT. Either way, I would hope it out flows the Bambu. It has a similar length meltzone, but massively more contact area on the extruder gear. It looks like the Bambu is using 8mm gears. Vase mode prints make a good flow test. Slice a vase mode cylinder with 0.6mm x 1.2mm (huge) layers, note the volumetric flow rate in the slicer, then during the print slowly ramp up the speed until the gears slip or the motor skips, then do the multiplication and that's the flow rate, as long as you didn't hit any acceleration/speed limit bottlenecks.
@@jov7733I'll look into it. But speed and flow aren't really my primary concerns. The toolchanger is THE selling feature of the printer. I'm waiting for Prusa to announce a high-flow solution. But in the meantime, I can at least test the flow rate right now.
Hey Robert do you have any idea how to resume multi tool head calibration and final set up steps? I had an issue with my tool offsets calibration so it failed, misunderstood that the sheet needed to be installed when starting tool calibration. Oops, I expected the printer to resume set up but it dose not, which to me is very unexpected? It boots right into the standard menu. So I’m not sure what steps to take now. Of course it’s Friday night and I can’t find the right link to get me back on track. 😢
I think you just need to do all of them. It kinda makes sense, since it's measuring the RELATIVE offset of each. I think it's in Control > Calibration and Tests (last option). Then select what you want to do.
I received my XL yesterday. I haven't opened the box as of yet. My question is what size table would you recommend putting it on? Thanks
Whatever fits? It should work with a 24" deep table, assuming you have some room behind it. Beyond that, it's up to you.
Thanks for the video! I have a MK3s and X1C and love/hate them both. Prusa is dead reliable and easy to work on but its so slow and print quality is not as good as Bambu IMO. Bambu is awesome until something breaks, at which point it's an absolute nightmare to work on or get support. I have an early XL preorder and have been waiting to convert it as i could built an epic voron for the same money.
I've had a similar experience, but I find the MK3S to be at least as good if not better print quality as the Bambu. I tend to be really good about quality filament, drying it, etc.
Just like Raspberry Pis, i legit thought this thing is just a myth because i've never seen one in the wild. Good to know it actually arrived, though.
at least where i live i recently bought a pi 4 with 8 gb ram for *85€* so they are back and more or less as cheap as they were
Ha, right? There aren't really any videos about it, just marketing hype stuff. So far though it's been great. Once it gets input shaping, it's going to be a GREAT printer.
Is it still open source so you could simply flash klipper onto it for input shaping instead of waiting for the firmware update?
Mine arrived today. Defintelly a thing 🤓
@@bobacorgCongrats!
thanks for posting. still waiting for my someday order. please show more good and bad. i appreciate your style. i agree with your comment above that load cell is a big deal, plus the multi tool. can you test those in greater detail and show where they shine and where they fail? it seems those two are the highlights here.
Yeah, I will be testing both the load cell and the tool changer more, since that's what makes it unique. Printing a full-size cosplay helmet isn't really the application that sets this apart, you can get a big Creality that can do that.
I pre ordered my fully built 2 head XL Christmas Day 2021. I got the email saying my pre order was ready a couple weeks back. I can't justify £2500 without seeing an honest direct review. FINALLY .....thank you
I think I will stick with the prebuilt.....little bit worried about the bent bed tho lol
Prusa tends to be quite reactive, I would be surprised if they still had that issue by the time yours ships. They're also generally good about fixing issues. Hopefully it all gets ironed out. More content to come!
@@RobertCowanDIY yeah I assumed the same thing. Guess it's time to spend some money ;)
@@TDaxThey also JUST announced yesterday that input shaping is here for the MK4 and coming for the XL in October (although only the single tool head for right now). It's a good sign that there's SOME movement.
I wish I had this printer in my budget, I love the reliability of my MK3, since 2018, I've changed one fan and one idle wheel. Having that trust in a larger machine like this XL would be a dream.
I totally agree on the wire management, It's probably fine for someone that has put together lots of them, but for a one-off it's way too tight.
It certainly has its downsides, but it delivers on what it promised, a multi-headed large format printer.
Would love it if you covered soluble supports and what you would recommend for soluble filaments.
I just bought some and will be focusing on that in the video after the next one (which is multi-material).
@@RobertCowanDIY awesome looking forward to it!
Since you have both bambu and xl, can you do a comparison on how much mateial is wasted on poop shoot and purge towers when printing with 2 materials
That's a pretty easy one. The XL has next to zero waste. Sure it's a few lines here and there, but I'm not sure I could even measure it for each layer, maybe a gram or less? The bambu largely depends on how many layer changes you're doing, how many colors, etc. And it can be significant. That's been covered quite a bit on YT already, but it can be upwards of a few percent of wasted filament per print. The XL is trivial, maybe equal to a purge line or so each layer. I will show this in my upcoming multi-material video. I can roughly estimate how many grams of filament per layer (it's consistent so you'd just multiply it by the height of the object.).
Are there any reliable alternatives from other brands for Prusa XL (looking at bed size mainly) in similar price (or better cheaper) territory? (ready products, so not talking about Voron 2.4 350 for example)
qidi i-fast
The Qidi X Max 3 is comparable in size, but is enclosed and has a chamber heater. Also more than half the price. I've been blown away by the quality and value for money of this printer.
No. That's why the XL has itself a nice niche. It's the only tool changer in town and then it's the only non tinkerering decent printer at this size. If you got the need, it may not be the best value or most convenient 3d printer, but it's sure got its spot cut out for it, and it's not _that bad_ in those 2 areas.
Vorons on the other hand, let's be hoenest, are for the Gentu Linux users of 3d printer land.
They also have yet to add official support for tool changers.
I dont want to sound like I'm down on Vorons, I get it, and they're cool. They just aren't really competing with the XL for most people I feel.
LOL NO. I had one and the review never saw the light of day. No, just no.
Given the size of the bed on this printer, I believe it should include four linear guides. This is a potential concern for me in the future. Additionally, considering the price point, I would prefer the use of ball screws over lead screws, ideally Hiwin or another high-quality brand. If the printer were more affordable, I could make these modifications and create the ideal printer.
Fair point. In true Prusa fashion, they don't tend to include things they don't feel are needed. We'll see if the lack of ball screws makes a difference. I don't personally feel they're terribly necessary for this application.
I do a lot of surfacing with curvature continuity and I feel would benefit from high end linear motion. they might not be necessary as you mentioned however with such price tag I feel they should have been included. thanks for the video by the way.
@@MKS_DesignGot it, that makes sense. I'm honestly not sure what you'd want for a 'high end motion system', but the whole thing is made on high quality linear bearings. It doesn't have ballscrews but I'm still not convinced 3d printers need those.
I'm thinking of getting one but want to know if there are any other consumer 3d printers that have more than 2 extruders or is the Prusa XL the only one at the moment as I only see dual extrusion printers.
I'm not sure of everything out there, but most are IDEX, which are just independent extruders. It's a BIT different, but I don't think anyone else has more than just two.
@@RobertCowanDIY thanks I think I'll get myself an XL.
@@fredp1665So far, it's been what I expected. Once it gets input shaping, it will be faster and have less ringing/artifacts, so that will be an added bonus.
@@RobertCowanDIY Amazing! thanks for your review and reply.
@@fredp1665 Of course, you're welcome.
Building a printer yourself saves sooooo much time later when you can service it yourself. There is no real competition to the XL. It's a savvy consumer level tool changer which is phenomenal! I've got one on pre-order and am sure I'll be able to build it but an e3d tool changer would probably be too time consuming for me to figure out.
Yeah, the XL is very unique and doesn't really have an 'equal'.
@@RobertCowanDIY just got my pre-order ready email 😁 they are now shipping XL with 0.4mm nozzles. Prusas are like pixel phones, they get better with age for some time.
@@EK1HYeah, I saw that, nice. I want to think I had some influence, but that's most likely not the case.
Any desire to let go of your bambu? I agree though main reason I haven't bought one. If I want a decorated print, I would just paint it, and don't like the waste involved in the bambu multicolor process. If I had a bambu it would be to have multiple of the same color for large prints. Keeping my common colors loaded so I don't have to reload as much. Still would mostly be one color or type.
Eh, I'm not sure. I have the MK3S and X1C and I will only end up keeping one, might end up selling both and getting a MK4. I haven't decided. I do love the Bambu for the speed, but having two different workflows seems annoying to me. I'd ideally rather have 2 Prusas just to keep the slicer/workflow the same. I really don't have a need for the AMS, other than running out of filament, or just keeping go-to filaments in it. But I have several dozen different rolls, so a single AMS doesn't do much, I'd still be swapping all the time. I'm not really sure what I'll end up doing, but for right now I'm having fun learning the XL.
Very cool video, but I have only one issue. You can’t compare print speeds with different nozzles sizes and layer heights. It is like comparing FPS with different resolutions.
Oh, I know. I briefly mentioned that. I was trying to avoid going into a ton of detail and derailing myself! In short, volumetric flow is what's important. What I was trying to say was that even though the nozzles are different, the volumetric flow is roughly the same, since the print times are the same. I've found that with the X1C, going up to a 0.6mm nozzle doesn't actually speed things up, the 0.4mm nozzle is already at the volumetric flow limits of the extruder. So in reality, the X1C and the XL have roughly the same volumetric flow capability. In theory, if you put a 0.4mm nozzle on the XL and just printed faster to achieve the same ETA on the same part, it could keep up with the flow, but would suffer with artifacts and such because it doesn't have input shaping. Prusa just kinda 'cheated' by shipping them with a 0.6mm nozzle, knowing input shaping wasn't going to be ready.
@@RobertCowanDIY understood. I think that you could consider don’t mentioning it at all or give kinda same explanation as here. Without it is sounded like (JUST A LITTLE) fanboism ;)
Nevertheless - keep up the good work!
@@pfabiszewski Ha, thanks. I figured people would understand it as "it has similar volumetric flow", but I guess I didn't go into enough detail. I didn't want to go too off-course. But noted.
@@RobertCowanDIY I wouldn't go as far as them, but as someone who moderates in a fairly large 3d printer internet space I cannot impress upon you how _few_ people know what maximum volumetric flow rate even is.
The number of people who just see some high maximum travel speed number waived around and think that has literally any correlation to print speed is too damn high. It hurts honestly.
I wish I could scream from the rooftops to every 3d print owner that it's the max acceleration before defects and maximum volumetric flow that are more or less the only things that matters when it comes to speed, and even then, thats if you care about having great levels of detail.
Sounds for me like Prusa is trying to react to Bambulab. On one side, we may have higher reliability. On the other more speed and a better money for value ratio. Same compared to Qidi
I do believe they are reacting to Bambu, and that's good! Competition is great. Don't bring Qidi into the mix, that was a mess of a product. Completely different world. They tried to 'copy' Bambu but had no idea what they were doing.
Also, the slicer time is usually off. Some have noted even 3 to 5 hours off from the estimate. So I would recommend you ACTUALLY time it with a stopwatch or timer of some sort. UncleJessy noted about 3.5 hours difference.
I have a bit of an issue with this. I'm not sure what issues UncleJessy is having, but if it's off by that much, there's a big issue. Prusaslicer (and in turn the Bambu slicer) are always dead on. It's a solved problem, if you know the travel speeds and accelerations, you should be able to predict within a few seconds. I will certainly test this out with larger/longer prints and see how close it is to reality. So far I have a few dozen hours on it and it's finished at the exact minute the slicer said, as I would expect.
I saw that uncle Jessie video the other day......I was a bit surprised, as I had never noticed a problem. I did an 11 hour print on my mk4 , the printer said it would finish at 7:21 pm. At 7:20 pm I went to the printer it was 99% done......it finished at 7:21 EXACTLY when it said it would.
@@TDax There's this trend lately where 'influencers' feel compelled to find the smoking gun or the 'gotcha' before anyone else. It creates a scenario where if something strange happens, they latch on to it and act like they found it first. In reality, it might be a fluke or maybe there's a better explanation. I still haven't watched his video, but I'm curious what happened. Being off by that much SHOULD have raised some eyebrows and made him think something was wrong. Even the earliest 3d printers and slicers weren't that bad.
With the .6 mozzle and a little slower, my guess is that your parts are stronger. also with that strength, the Banbu same time with .4 but not as strong.
That's my suspicion as well. Bambu parts come out matte, which means they didn't have enough time to fuse the layers properly.
I preordered on day 1 as well. By the time I finally received my notice to complete my order I canceled and ordered the Bambu X1C. Been very happy so far. Never once a failure. Everyprint has been perfect. I was so happy I added a 2nd X1C. I hope you will continue to update us over the next year. All the best to you Robert
That's good to hear. It's not a bad printer at all, I just haven't had a great experience with it.
I pre-ordered an XL with 1 head -> first issue with the core YX (1 hole was not put correctly) -> Prussa send me a replacement after several back and forth with the support -> No issue. I'm still building it (4h in so far) but yes the cable managment is a pain -> I had to redo all the calble for the screen to gain the few centimers missing connecting to the motherboard. Prussa, why don't you put the cable management AFTER connection in the instruction ? Like you so far it seems everything has been rushed considering the 2 years wait .... I do hope everything will go smoothly for now own (that is why I have invested 2000$ in it and wait 2 years)
Yeah, the cable management is 'fine', but it's such a pain when putting it together. I've seen worse, but I've seen a lot better too.
PRUSA! 💪🏾 I agree with everything you said about Bambu
Eh, they both do things well. Bambu has gotten a LOT of people into good and reliable 3d printers. I still have mine because it's really fast, it's good for quick prototypes.
As the owner of a 350mm voron v2, two bambu x1c printers, and two large format peopoly msla printers, I do definitely still see the value of this machine. Different machines for different purposess. I used to own a bcn3d epsilon w27 idex as well. I think the prusa XL will fill a special place due to the multi tool heads. You have a great point about the bambu printers and their AMS. Its not all that useful for multi material. Mostly, for me they are small parts production machines. You load up the ams with four identical spools and just run and run and run. They are fantastic machines for production in this way, especially for styrenes, nylon, and polycarbonate (non composite). And while my voron is great for large composite parts, it would be amazing to be able to do soluble supports with it. With ability to go up to 5 toolheads yea you can get real creative with single piece printed assemblies. You could print high tensile materials lile polycarbonate in some areas, cushion them against another part with TPU, and that other part could be some impact resistant composite like glass filled nylon. So much power in extra toolheads! I very much want one.
How did you like the bcn3d? I've been looking at one of those for awhile. How do they compare to the 'consumer' stuff like Prusa or Bambu?
@@RobertCowanDIY I really have nothing good to say about it. Its overall a poor design from both the mechanical perspective, the electrical perspective, the hotends, the "automatic calibration" features. The gantry has all its mass on swinging cantilevers that hand beneath the rails, so at high oscillating acceleration such as small area infills the entire gantry rocks, causing the nozzle to bounce up and down which results in weak adhesion on the infills. Its very behind. Mine was so riddled with defective components I was changing something out every month. Their automatic calibration features are not automatic, theyre semi-manual, and theyre not accurate at all. The amount of time I lost just stopping, scraping the plate, and retrying was very costly. I ended up demanding it go back for a full refund after about 7 months and got it.
From the single nozzle printer perspective, two x1c with an ams takes up the same amount of space as one epsilon series printer, and they are far superior in every way. Ive output more quality on my two bambus in a month than I did in 7 months with that ridiculous bcn3d machine. It was more an obstacle than a tool.
@@hellotouchbotCool, good to know! I suspect a lot of the mid-level 3d printers are just smaller production versions of the consumer stuff. I hope the XL fills that need I have for a less consumer-level machine, but not going up to a true professional printer.
@@RobertCowanDIY I used to really have my eye on machines like bcn3d, raise3d, and ultimaker but now I dont. Im now of the opinion that if youre not jumping into high temperature material printers, like peek/pekk, you should stick with consumer level. Polycarbonate and nylon, as well as their composites, meet virtually any designers needs from the perspective of ultimate tensile strength and impact resistance anyway.
@@hellotouchbotThat's kinda where my head's at right now. Unless I start going into really exotic stuff, I'll stick with consumer grade printers. For the exotic stuff, might as well outsource until there's a cheap option.
It's interesting hearing your Bambu experience and really goes to show you why single points of data don't necessarily mean much. This does not at all invalidate your experience I want to be clear, but a big part of why I love my Bambulab is that I haven't touched a thing in more than a year of ownership and it just works every time, no fuss, and the speed and AMS are a positive.
Regardless, I totally get that feeling of being part of the percentage of people for any product that receive a problem unit.
I just want to point out that you can find reviews of even the XL where people have had similar experiences to what you described too, so you know, I get the pain and I've had to deal with this on other products as well, and it can be hard to seperate your lived experience from what is truly the most common experience, but I think it's always good to keep in mind the idea of "was I unlucky or is this product truly crap". In your case, I think you were unlucky and the fact you want multi mat that it can't do probably sealed it for you, but you know it happens.
A product is a product is a product.
I fully agree that my single data points mean nothing. That's why I'm not really going into detail and don't want to release a video with me in the thumbnail making a frowny face saying "bambu sucks". It's just not for me. I don't like it. It's still a great printer, I just don't like it. The speed is great, but it's been less reliable than my MK3. The first layer is 'meh' and inconsistent and I've had two extruders fail (clogged nozzle which you can't really do anything about and on the second one the nozzle tip literally just fell out). Oh, and it always drags filament and I need to adjust the temps and profiles quite a bit. I don't think there's anything actually wrong with it, it just doesn't feel like the right thing for me.
@@RobertCowanDIY ... and that is why it is so important to have much more "data points" especially on the Prusa XL. I do not get Prusa's "marketing strategy" .. or better the lack of for this product. None of the major 3D channels / influencers etc have posted a review of the machine. Super strange. So thanks a lot Robert for your efforts!!!
@@pWAVE86So, I'll pull back the curtain a little bit. I've had several offers to review the Creality K1, Bambu gave me a free X1C just in hopes it would show up in projects. They asked for feedback, but when I gave it to them, they just challenged every point and kept telling me how great it was. I get requests to review 3d printers or lasers every day (around 2-3 a day). Prusa does NONE of this. They don't do affiliate links, sponsorships, etc. Sometimes they will send review samples to the BIGGEST channels, but it's rare. But with the others, you can make some serious money with affiliate links. Creality was around $20-$50 per printer you sold. In short, it's not financially beneficial to focus on Prusa when your inbox is full of people wanting you to review their product, where you can actually make money from it. Look at the bigger 3d printing channels and ask yourself why they're 'reviewing' the same exact printer that came out with a different brand name and printing the same models and trying to make it somehow sound innovative or at ALL any different from everything else that's currently out. Prusa largely doesn't play this game, so you see a lot less reviews.
@@RobertCowanDIY What I was thinking. Thanks for the insight but quiet sad indeed…
@@pWAVE86Eh, it's just how things work. I fall victim to it as well. it's hard to get something for free, knowing you're going to make a lot of money. People are people! I think everyone just has to remember, the biggest channels are BUSINESSES and are largely exist to generate money and entertainment.
Thing I'd loved to see: Dual materials TPU + CF Nylon Fairy/Ant weight Combat Robot.
This is what I'm working towards! Add a third extruder for water-soluble support and you can print everything in one go!
Super helpful video!! I want one! I would love to hear more about WiFi and Ethernet.
Sounds good. From using it so far, WIFI has been reliable and I haven't had any issues. At least to me, the slowness has been exaggerated, files take some time, but maybe a minute to upload for a normal print. I'll try a bigger file and show that on camera how long it takes to upload, along with Ethernet. But so far, it seems just fine, albeit a bit slower than one would expect for a new product in 2023.
How does it handle filaments that require moisture control?
The same way any printer would? It does not have active drying. I think only the most expensive printers have active drying, so you'd still need to print from a filament dryer for moisture-sensitive filaments.
@@RobertCowanDIY ok thx, new to 3d printing so was just wondering since it’s not a closed printer like the bambu lab.
@@MeckoXJackalGotcha! The closed or open nature of a machine has nothing to do with the moisture control side of things. It's for heat-retention. Certain filaments like ABS and some nylons don't like to be printed with a large temperature differential (warm bed and nozzle, but relatively cold ambient temps). This causes the layers to prematurely shrink, the layers separate and you either get cracking or curling. If you have an enclosure, it prevents this from happening. MOST people don't really 'need' to print those materials and in many cases just a cardboard box around the printer does the trick. The Bambu does not have an actively heated chamber, it's just closed off from drafts, so it can minimize that 'differential' so stuff doesn't warp or crack. But moisture, that's something completely different. For moisture-sensitive filaments, you need to keep them dry at all times. Even after 1-2 hours, they can absorb enough moisture to impact prints. So drying them in a filament dryer and printing them while dry is the best way to go. But these filaments are also a bit more rare.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you for the info, I am probably going for this one then. With it being able to have 5 different nozzles seems like a good bet for doing engineering projects and random projects.
@@MeckoXJackalYeah, having 5 actual toolheads really opens up some interesting possibilities. I have a video coming out next week about it. After some small tweaks, I'm really liking it.
Can you print support with a different material?
Yep!
That's like the most basic benefit of this thing. It's barely scratching the surface. You could do that on a AMS or Mmu or ERCF or Pallete.
No my friend, where this thing shines is mixing all sorts of funky stuff together with barely a dent in speed and no issues with waste when switching over time wise or material wise.
Just wait till you see all the weird composite designs a proper multi tool head printer can get you that other multi filament single nozzle systems can't.
Just to be clear I like all of those system sI mentioned (except the mmu), I'm just saying a tool changer is a whole different ball game.
@@BeefIngot CORRECT! The tool changer allows you to go beyond just 'cosmetic' stuff or supports. I want to do different material for in-fill, maybe with a 1mm nozzle, different outer walls, etc. I dunno. There's a LOT of stuff you just can't do with an AMS or similar filament-swapper. But it's also FAR more expensive to implement.
3499 for the works going off prusa rep. I would buy it for this price if it was fulling enclosed and had a live z offset. I own 2 X1Cs and like you I have had to replace lots of parts. the 3 main things I hate about them are the carbon rods , no live z offset and no power button on the front. all these companies say auto bed leveling and most are ok when the printer is new but they fall short after you put some hours on it a simple live z adjust would had saved me so many failed prints.
OK, hear me out. I HATE that my X1C doesn't have live z offset. I'm right there with you. For the XL? I don't care. It's not needed (IMO). The first layer is flawless and I have maybe a few dozen prints. I've had no need to adjust it. With my X1C, I've literally yelled at the thing when it's doing a first layer, "let me adjust it down a bit!!!". It's highly variable and I'd love to be able to adjust it since the first layers aren't always great. With the XL, it's been dead on every time even after swapping build plates, etc. I'm with you on the enclosure, but I think live z offset is a thing of the past, when using a load cell.
@@RobertCowanDIY Well if they ever offer it with a encloser I may have to try it out. Would really rather it have a live z offset even if it’s not needed just the option of it being there would sway my decision that much more. But without a full encloser it’s a no go being I pretty much print exclusively in abs.
@@markteal1212Understood! Just curious, what are you using ABS for? I haven't used it all that much and am just curious what applications people have for it, if you don't mind sharing.
@@RobertCowanDIY I use abs for its heat resistant all the items I print I sale so they need to be able to handle the shipping process which includes being left in the sun or in a hot car on a summer day with out deforming. A few bad reviews will kill a product fast.
@@markteal1212Got it, that makes sense! If you're making actual products, ABS is a good way to go.
Thanks for the great video on the XL. ❤ Like you said almost nothing can be found on the internet about them. 2yrs and counting… we’re still waiting on a 5 head system. I’m am starting to believe that I might have a better chance at seeing a unicorn 🦄 than the printer itself. Not to mention the mk3-mk4 upgrade kits or the mmu2-mmu3 upgrades. But, now I know there is a chance that the XL 5 head maybe something I will see someday. I too have the feeling that the XL and MK4 were rushed out due to Bamboo and others being released before Prusa was ready.
It’s unfortunate because this is not what I expected from Prusa due to past experiences. Hopefully they can turn it around and all the wait time will be worth it. 😊
As for future videos from you, it would be really nice to see multicolored prints and Multi Material prints. And to take a good look at the quality of the prints, as well as soluble supports, and how that plays out. 🎉
Just a heads up… If the XL is anything like the MK4 and it’s wired or wireless connectivity is very poor speeds. Yes, it works. But, I expected much much faster speeds from
both forms of connectivity. Reminds me of the slow transfer rates of the MK3 using with wireless on the Raspberry PI. 😢 the PrusaLink works. Basic. But, works. So, meh.
And as for anyone that wants to buy aa printer from Prusa. you’ll get it and much much sooner if you buy a fully assembled versus a kit or an upgrade. Once you’re in the Prusa ecosystem, they seem to care a lot less about you. One would’ve thought that a $5000 printer would’ve been a priority but you can send out five single headed printers instead, and please five people versus one. 😢
I will try to do some tests with multi-material prints, since that's what I was wanting to use it for. I haven't really experienced terribly slow speeds over wifi, maybe they've improved that? They're not fast at all, but maybe a minute or less? Slower than octoprint, but nothing really to discuss. I'll show some examples in the next video.
@@RobertCowanDIY yeah, it works. If you send 20-80 mb file it can take up to 6-8 mins. At least on the MK4 which is said to be the same as the XL. Better than not having it, right?
@@peterwalker5413I'll absolutely do some tests on this in my next video, I'm making a list. I didn't find it to be all that slow, but the files weren't huge. I'll try something bigger than 20MB.
In my experience it's not the BL printers that are less than reliable it's the AMS. I've had a P1P for months now and I've never had a single failure that wasn't specifically my fault
Good data point. I have NOT had the AMS hooked up and had all my failures without the AMS. But I do want to caution everyone in saying that my single data point doesn't mean much when you factor in how many printers they sell. That being said, there are just things I don't 'like' with the Bambu, but that's just personal preference.
@@RobertCowanDIY That's crazy. In the groups online The highest praise that the printer gets is that it just works. I wonder if you got an early production or a pre-production model since you got yours for free.
@@DoRC Plenty of people have issues with it. I know of some CZcamsrs that really like it and sing the praises yet they've replaced the print beds, motherboard and other parts. They're great printers, no question. But they're not perfect and a small portion of people do see issues. I also know of a lot of people that went from really garbage cheap printers and were just blown away by them. I went from an extremely reliable printer and it was 'slightly' less reliable, so it's more noticeable. Yes, mine was free, but from what I understand it's the same thing everyone else got. I got it well into the production cycle, it was not at all an early model. But hey, quality control is hard and things happen. I'm not bashing Bambu, it's just not the printer for me.
29:10 - what is that knocking sound?
I'm not sure!? It's not the printer, I wonder if I had the lapel mic resting against something. Maybe the filament roll even?
I've had a bit of the alternate experience between my Prusa Mk3S and Bambu X1C. The X1 is not perfect by any means but has been way more reliable and much more frequently set and forget. Pringint CF Nylon in particular with the MK3S even with a custom enclosure I never got results half as good as the X1C can do in a third the time. And TPU the X1C can print with phenomenal quality and speed. Probably half the filament I print is TPU these days, then another 25% PLA or PETG for household or prototype parts, and another 25% Nylon or CF Nylon. I have over 1100 print hours
on my X1C and a total of
Interesting! For CF-nylon, it's the exact opposite for me. The bambu is fine, but the MK3S was a lot better and more reliable. For TPU, same thing. The X1C is interesting, some people love it and have great success with it and others have a lot of problems.
@@RobertCowanDIY I think its the nature of 3d printers. Once you reach a tier of "good" it becomes about the outliers more than anything when it comes to reliability. I think that speaks well of both Prusa and Bambulab in that way, because ultimately nothing is perfect and no product won't have lemons, but these 2 manages to not have lemons way more than other companies so good on em.
What a nice surprize seeing JustCuzRobotics in the comments here. Always excited when you come out with a new bot.
@@BeefIngot What's surprising about that?! My channel started out exclusively as a combat robot channel. Way back in the days when I started my channel, it was the only channel devoted to combat robots.
@@RobertCowanDIY I guess nothing in particular, it's just nice to see 2 content creators and robot makers you follow meet out in the wild.
I can see multi color prints be good, if one wants to add visible text/symbols etc.
Correct. I still think if you're just doing different colors, the Bambu AMS or the Prusa MMU is the way to go.
Nice! Will be waiting for future videos about XL... are you planning or thinking about going full 5 head in the future? It is too rich for my blood but still... I enjoy watching your videos so...
Thanks! If the multi-filament stuff works out, I could see myself getting at least 2 more toolheads. I like the idea of having standard filaments already loaded, or maybe one toolhead with a 1mm nozzle, etc.
@@RobertCowanDIY Imagine if they come out with a higher flow rate nozzle. You could (providing slicers support it) have the big rope pusher slap out large chunks in no time with the other heads for details and the funky stuff. All the possibilities are tantalizing.
Wow! Those non-print moves are super loud!
Right, it's almost as loud as the X1C!
@@RobertCowanDIY That's surprising to hear! I wonder if it has something to do with the aluminum enclosure panels. My P1S is actually relatively quiet. I usually print at standard speed with the door closed and we barely even notice it running. It's also sitting on a homemade plywood desk in an open loft upstairs with hardwood floors throughout to just echo everywhere if it wanted, but even still it's quiet. I will say I print with materials that don't require very much cooling, so not much fan noise either. There's something to be said about the harmonics involved in certain speeds with certain stepper motors. There were nights we couldn't sleep with my MK3+ printers running without stealth mode. Even with squash ball feet, etc. Does the XL have stealth mode?
@@degreeless_engineeringI'm probably the wrong person to ask about this. 3d printers really shouldn't be located in living spaces, they should be in a shop. Yes, I have mine in a closet in my office, but I'm even breaking my own rule! Sound really isn't something I care too much about, it's a tool. It's quieter than my table saw, dust collector, CNC router CNC mill, laser cutter, etc, etc, etc. It's a tool, it's gonna make noise. I primarily use the Bambu for PLA and it's almost insultingly loud with all the fans. By far the loudest 3d printer I've ever had. BUT, because of the enclosure, it needs the fans to keep cool at those speeds. It is what it is, it's a tool.
An interesting video, thanks (there really isn't much of anything on the XL out) It is good to hear someone else who hates the Bambu labs printers. I have been using a X1C for quite a while and to me it is just shiny junk. I have had far more issues and messing around with the Bambu than the Prusas or any other printer I have used (even a cheap Ender 5 was more reliable). For that matter my Makergear M2 from 10 years ago was better built and returned a not all that inferior quality. I don't like the Bambu software approach, the lack of a viable way to manually load files, and the super slow start up sequence is stupid given it doesn't print any better first layers than a mk3s. I suspect people are coming to Bambu from very low quality printers which distorts their perspective. A fast printer is really slow when it doesn't work properly and the AMS is particularly badly designed. Prusa isn't perfect by any means and don't like their hardware design all that much but the printers do work and if they don't you can generally fix them without waiting for parts to be delivered (in places like Norway every import is expensive and slow so that makes more difference than in the US etc). I am disappointed in the lack of an enclosure for the XL, otherwise it seems like a well designed and useful machine. I would like to see it with an actively heated chamber but that does admittedly much complicate the design and construction.
I mean, mine was 'fine', but not anything TOO special other than the speed. Print quality was pretty good, but I'd say one out of every 10 prints had some issue and the first layer was always a bit 'meh'. But you're 100% right, one failed print means I just wasted 8 hours. I'd rather wait longer for a print to finish than worrying about a failure.
We’re gonna need a benchy at minimum to get some insight into print quality.
Got it.
Did you do some slicing and compare apples to apples .4mm to .4mm nozzle print time against bambu lab? Comparing a .4mm to .6 seems like the speed question is being ducked.
I wasn't ducking anything. I was comparing volumetric flow. Putting a 0.6mm nozzle in the bambu doesn't really gain you much as you're already at the flow limit of the printer when using 0.4mm. I've explained this before in other comments, but in short, using a bigger nozzle CAN gain more speed, IF you can melt and print it fast enough. Both IN THEORY can achieve similar volumetric flow, but the bambu can print MUCH faster, because it uses a smaller nozzle. But, in the end, it will print the same amount of material in roughly the same amount of time. The main selling point of the XL isn't speed, but it IS the main selling feature of the bambu, so I wasn't ducking the question, it just wasn't all that relevant.
@@RobertCowanDIY True. I have also been hearing lately that high speed prints may look good but are not as strong. I print mostly mechanical parts, so maybe the speed is not that relevant to me. We have an X1 carbon where I work, and it is good, but not as good as people puff it up to be. I get errors when it does its scanning of the test lines. The corners are really bulgy like the pressure advance is not working correctly. A bunch of my ABS prints had really bad Z banding (the chamber did get up to 50 C while printing). We have also had the filament break inside the AMS a few times, which requires disassembly of the AMS to get the broken filament out. I do like the tool change concept. I wish the XL was a fully enclosed design so high chamber temperatures could be reached.
@@f1hotrod527 We've had the same experience. It's a good printer, no question, but it's not without some fairly significant flaws. All the fancy 'tech' really isn't useful and doesn't work reliably enough IMO. And you're right about the strength aspect, I mainly do mechanical parts and when they come out matte instead of shiny, it means it didn't actually reach a high enough temperature to properly fuse the layers. Sure, it prints FAST, but it doesn't mean it's optimal. We'll get there one day I'm sure, but just throwing down filament as fast as you can and compensating in software might NOT be the way to go. I'm sure there will be enclosure options soon enough.
I definitely won’t try and tell you what your experience has been like with a Bambi Lab Printer but I upgraded my build plate and have had no problems since. And I will say that life was miserable for the first two weeks messing with a glue stick.
Huh, what issues did you have with a glue stick? It's always been really reliable for me, you just need to put it on very thin and let it completely dry first.
@@RobertCowanDIY I don’t like it, cleaning it every other day. Personal preference.
@@stevekorzeniewski6895Huh, interesting, I only cleaned mine off about every several dozen prints. At least with lower bed temps, it lasted several months before I'd clean it off. But for sure, personal preference. With the new satin build plate on the XL, I don't use glue.
@@RobertCowanDIY Right on ! Maybe it was the micro center sparking filament I was using or something else…but when I would need to have a part with small holes in it the glue seemed to make it clump up and ruin a lot of early prints. Maybe it was me but the problems went away after I got new plates 🤷🏻♂️
Prusa needs to make an engineering materials grade 3d printer that would really be awesome
With an enclosure and possibly a heated chamber I feel like the XL would fit that need?
@@RobertCowanDIY yes probably but it doesn't have an enclosure and it it's kinda a hard printer to enclose
@@teitgenengineeringPersonally, I feel it's easier than a bed-slinger, but maybe we're looking at it differently. The TOP will be a bit of a challenge, but the sides and front are super easy and I could whip something up in an afternoon. The size makes it a bit tricky though, since the top section needs quite a bit of material to fully enclose. But it's 'easy', just big.
@@RobertCowanDIY well abviosly it's easier than a bed slinger the top is what I was talking about and there's no frame bar's in the front. and a diy enclosure for a semi industrial machine is a real killer for the xl
@@teitgenengineeringI think we still disagree on this :-) I think it's super easy, there would just be a hinge/joint in the corners. But maybe I'm underthinking it. We'll see what comes out for it. I personally don't see it as an issue at all. With all the frame rails, it makes mounting parts to it trivial.
The only way to use TPU on bambu is to feed it directly to the printer unfortunatly, and bambu AMS is not recomanded for abrasive materials which is a shame
Yep, correct. This is why having an actual tool changer allows for different types of designs.
For a kit, this simply is not worth the astronomical price, not after 2 years.
If you want volume, build a VCore 3.1 500, or even a Voron.
I've looked at the Voron many times, but it just seems to be much more of a project rather than something that 'just works'. I really am not looking for another project, I just need a tool that makes stuff. I'm sure I could get it to a point where I'm not fiddling with it, but I feel like I'd be in the minority.
I have a voron 2.4 350mm kit sitting in a box, I bought the XL because my MK3s+’s “just worked” and paid for themselves. @@RobertCowanDIY
@@RobertCowanDIY Absolutely. I finally broke down and built a Voron 0.2 a couple of months ago. It was a lot of fun and now it prints very nice and fast (and has all the bells and whistles, including the ones I added myself), but it's definitely a *Project* (with a huge capital P). Not something to get when you just want a tool that spits out parts (for that I still very much like and use my Prusa Mk3).
@@UloPe Yeah, I'm still on the fence about Vorons. They just don't seem like a daily driver. I just want something I can forget about. I want a tool, not a hobby ;-)
I'm kind of surprised you made that apples to oranges comparison in the time between the prusa and the bambu. The larger nozzle and taller layer height make a huge difference. It would have been very easy just to change those settings in the slicer and get an apples to apples comparison which I'm sure would have not been favorable for the prusa.
I fully admit it's apples to oranges and sorry for the confusion. I was more comparing volumetric flow potential. The Bambu profiles are pretty much maxed out (you can't really go any faster without running into extrusion issues). So for the 0.4mm nozzle, that's the max flow it can handle and I've heard that even with a 0.6mm flow, you need to slow it down a bit, so that's the max flow it can reliably handle. With the stock hardware, the XL can generally handle the same flow rate. Of course if you move to a 0.4mm nozzle, it might be different. Admittedly apples to oranges, but this is just a first take overview, not an in depth review. My whole point was the printer can handle roughly the same volumetric flow as the Bambu. Hopefully that makes more sense.
@@RobertCowanDIY Yeah that's reasonable. I've got a CHT nozzle on mine which makes a huge difference.
@@DoRCIt's hard to cover a TON of information all at once, I just glossed over that point since I knew I'd have to come back to it in greater detail. Thanks for understanding!
@@RobertCowanDIY oh trust me I get it. My channel's not quite as big as yours but I have made bunch of videos and I understand the compromises that have to be made sometimes
@@DoRCI feel like there's a growing trend in bigger channels where they just NEED to find the 'smoking gun' or the 'gotcha' and can't just simply present information without controversy.
Thought my tv had a dead pixel but looks like you have a defect in your camera.
Ha, yeah. It's an OLD camera.
Not here to flame you for your comments about your Bambu as I've heard of several folks getting units that simply were not up to snuff, but wow are my results different.
From the day I pulled my X1C out of the box it has performed flawlessly. In over a year, I've only had one print fail and it was my fault. First layers are perfect every time and all I do is send the job and come back when it's done. I'm often not even in the same room when I start a job.
As for your review of the Prusa XL, I have one on order, and had been worried because I'd heard from several that it was a dog. You have given me some confidence that it might be worth the money after all. Thank you.
No worries! I can only share my own experiences on my own channel! No one else tells me what to film, so I'm gonna share my own unfiltered experiences. I personally know a couple youtubers that have actually had to REBUILD their X1Cs, but still claim it's the best thing ever. There are varied experiences out there for sure. Mine is 'fine'. It's fast and the quality is great for the speed it offers. But coming from a dialed in MK3s, I lost reliability and gained some speed. It's a fair tradeoff. That being said, I'll probably sell my MK3s and keep the X1C, it's nice to have the speed when I need to prototype something quickly, and the XL does everything else I need.
I'm impressed. I don't currently have a need for such a huge printer, but I want one now. Haha
I need to find some cool uses for it. Right now I'm just giddy being able to print HUGE stuff.
Those are some heavy Haribo gummy bears if they can bow the bed. It's more likely that somehow a batch of bad beds slipped through assembly.
It's a few pounds. That as a dynamic load from being dropped, focused on the center of a relatively big surface... It's possible.
Hi Robert great video just subscribed. You can sure hear your dislike for the BamBu Labs printer. I think it crept into your review a little more than it should have those two printers are far different and comparing them was a good setup for trashng the bambu. The Pursa XL seems like a very capable printer and if you are in business making parts for customers or your are a CAD designer or in your case a CZcamsr who does reviews this is.a no brainer. I'm not sure if its going to be worth it for the average user $4000.00 is a little crazy. The prints are outstanding but in my experience going back 7 or 8 years now having built and purchased many different printers over the years the Bambu that I have P1S has produced some the best looking outputs any 3D printer I have own Creality, Artillary, and yes Prusa. No 3D printer is perfect and no 3D printer will also give you that push button and wait till its done process at some point they all screw up (Shit Happenes) From I can hear The XL is not that quiet either I watched the print and the faster this thing moves the louder it got. I was shocked to find out the promised features have gone missing that to me is a deal killer for the price. I know you'll do amazing things with it so Good luck
I wanted to be honest and share my experience with the Bambu, since it is in fact my video and my content. They are VERY different printers, but unfortunately many people will compare ANY new 3d printer to Bambu, just look at the comments. I am a hobbyist. This isn't my job and I don't really make much money from the channel, just enough to justify the time and effort. For many people, the price will be reasonable for what they want it to do. I've learned through doing many product reviews, you can't assume someone's use case or how they choose to spend their money. In theory, the XL can do things no other printer on the market can do, because it has a tool changer. It allows for more flexibility in mixing different types of filament. As a single toolhead machine, it doesn't make a lot of sense, IMO. But people will find really useful ways to use the toolchanger that may justify the cost over other machines. Also, it is really really quiet. It still needs input shaping for faster speeds, but from what I've seen, it's very quiet. I'll do the next video next to it printing. Thanks for subscribing!
Maybe it's just how the audio is recorded, but umm. Is this considered 'quiet'? Cus I've run CNCs cutting metal more quiet than this thing sounds in the video. I'd chuck it out the damn window if I had to have it in the same room as me. Genuinely sounds awful. I'm still likely going to get one, but I really hope that's just a bad audio setup
I'm putting a lapel mic right on the machine to record it, which is the worst case scenario. In my other videos you can hear it running right next to me talking. There's no way a milling machine is even going to be on the same level of noise. I wear hearing protection when running my CNC router and mill. This isn't even close, I'm not sure what you're hearing.
@@RobertCowanDIY Ok, that's actually great to hear. Thanks for following up! That certainly is the worst case scenario.
It's just the resonance from the steppers during some of the speed + direction combinations, coupled with headphones haha.
Certainly routers scream, and smaller CNCs are quite noisy also for sure. But our serious ones, if you've got like a half inch or smaller tool in there and you cut aluminum, all you hear is the sound of coolant, the electronics fans and some pneumatics. Certainly when you go larger or are taking serious cuts or do steels and inconels you'll both hear and feel them haha. On a decibel scale the coolant is probably louder so I was probably stretching a bit. But far more pleasant imo haha
Ok so I've reached the end of the video now and so here are my final thoughts and answer to that call to action (yay youtube algorithm).
I think if you really want to be fair you should give the Bambulab a second chance with your issues fixed, because the nice things you described about the XL (apart from the multiple tool heads, which is awesome) are all true for me as a Bambulab owner. I've never needed to adjust anything except print temps when printing super fast (as you mentioned) which gets rid of that whole structural integrity matte finish thing, although most of the time I just print on standard, which is still like 4x faster than any of my previous printers at minimum anyways.
I think you definitely should mention your bad experiences as well as part of the review because even if it's not a majority opinion I think it's valuable to see the good with the bad so people can watch a variety of reviews and come to their own conclusions.
As for what I want to see in future XL videos, as someone who has deeply thought about getting one, the thing I'm most curious about is how painless multi mat truly is and how decent the click to print sort of workflow is.
Coming from previously a janky, manually coded macro, multi klipper instance raspberry pie hot rod kludge to my Bambulab was amazing because the workflow just became press print, watch in the viewer out of curiosity, get a notification on my phone when it's done. That was just awesome.
I'm wondering, how is it on the prusa side? Can you just click and print from the slicer? Can you add a webcam (like is there a USB port for that)? Is there any way to just get a notification on your phone when it's done so you don't have to be at the desktop monitoring to know when it's time to go down to the basement to pick up your print?
How about fail over. If you have the same material in 2 tool heads, can this failover gracefully as the AMS does? obviously with just 2 tool heads that's a terrible use case, but I'm imagining a 5 tool head model where maybe 2 of them are just the standard mat you use and then the other 3 are the funky stuff like PP or TPE or Dissolvable supports.
(mini rant alert) Lastly I wanted to also comment on Prusa recently because I'm not sure many people who aren't paying attention have noticed (totally fair and I get it, most people don't care about this sort of thing) they seem to have been getting increasingly anti open source with some pretty (In my opinion) bad takes and mud slinging for a company who built their company on open source, forking many established pieces of software themselves to avoid reinventing the wheel. I'm not expecting this to be a part of the video, but I just wanted to explain why you might have seen less positive sentiment regarding prusa recently when usually it's all praise, a loud fan base and happy thoughts.
While a lot of it is because of them sorta resting on their laurels, and the recent misleading marketing saying features will be there when they aren't on both the XL and the Mk4s, it's also something else.
As someone who does care about open source (despite buying a closed firmware, closed hardware Bambulab ... yes I know... hey, it's really good ok.....), it just bothers me they seem to be really dragging their feet on actually releasing the plans and files for their latest printers and firmware with werid excuses.
It would be one thing if they were miles ahead of the competition, but the mk4s compared to a Bambulab, for the same price range, they are behind the pack so I really don't get this new attitude. Nobodies out there trying to copy their Marlin based bed slinger to out compete them. More than that, when they based their software on gpl3 derivative software part of the deal is just like they got that work for free, they have to pass it on to any other person or company who then has the same responsibility. They made thst deal and now want to undo it after profiting massively from that free labour the second it benefits someone else. That really rubs me the wrong way.
Anyways, rant at the end as side, I did include what I hope to see, so there yer call to action 😊
I also would love to see what creative combat robot stuff you do specifically with hard mats and flexible composites.
Honestly, I think a lot of the people that love bambu came from "janky" printers. Coming from a well-tuned MK3S, the speed was really the only improvement at the cost of reliability. I went a YEAR without a failure or hiccup with the MK3. I wasn't trying to make this video about Bambu, it just came out like that I guess. I think it more speaks to why I bothered going forward with the XL, if the X1C was perfect for me, I wouldn't have gone through with it. I'll try to answer your questions, but damn, that's a wall of text.
Yes, the XL is just "press print from the slicer". Once you have it connected and setup, I just send to printer from Prusaslicer and it prints, hands-free (as long as you have filament loaded of course). The wifi is slow, but not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It takes maybe a minute or less to upload?
Multi-material seems easy enough. It works much the same way as it does with Bambu (since they share the same slicer mostly). You can merge models, paint on different materials, etc. Or if you just want to say "use extruder 2 for this print", it's easy. I need to mess with it more, but it seems pretty straigthforward.
Regarding Prusa and open source, I'll stay out of it. I'm sure companies have good reasons for doing what they do. I've been professionally involved in product development for most of my career and product launches are hard. I don't blame companies for missing the mark at launch, as long as they follow through and support their customers. The only things missing from the XL (IMO) are software, which can come by firmware updates, so while not ideal, it's excusable (if they follow through).
I honestly think people are sleeping on the load cell tech. THAT'S the reason to get Prusa and it IS miles ahead of the lidar stuff. Vision is a strange and backwards way of doing it IMO. The load cell is (so far) flawless and actually does that it's supposed to. The lidar is unreliable and requires very specific conditions to be met and doesn't always even do what it's supposed to do.
Thanks for the comments! I think there will always be two camps of people. I try to never be a fan-boy, but Prusa is what REALLY got me into 3d printing because it wasn't a chore or yet another thing to maintain. I could just design what I wanted and have a finished part reliably. The Bambu was a step backwards in that regard, and the XL feels like going back to the days of my MK3. Just my impressions.
@@RobertCowanDIY Not that it somehow should change your opinion,but just a fun fact, Bambulab actually uses 3 peizo sensors in the bed. The LiDAR stuff is mostly just to scan the first layer and tune pressure advance. It's why the P1S and P1P both still get perfect layers (arguably better layers because as you noticed sometimes (rarily) the LiDAR actually _messes up_ the first layer somewhat (yea I gush but I can gush while acknowledging flaws).
The LiDAR I honestly feel, is rather poorly explained everywhere but really clever when you figure out that it's only LiDAR in common parlance but in reality is using the distortion of a diagonal linear laser as seen with computer vision to calculate differences for the fancier features. For what purpose it really serves, rather than the gimmicky idea that it helps the Z offset, its really cool. Having a printer that checks its own print? Amazing idea.
I really find it novel because while it's obviously early days just imagine a future where the printer scans layers as it's putting them down so you can actually trust that a part is as strong as you hope it is. Imagine knowing for a fact that it did indeed extruder properly in the inside and out.
Of course that's not here today, but I can't help but praise innovation like that (and the fact they used computer case like manufacturing techniques to get a rigid corexy down to this price without cutting to many corners).
As for reliability, it's an experience thing right? I bought an old faithful while I had my kludge too, and in my opinion, What I like about my Bambu isn't even really about magic reliability (though for me I've not had one clog or issue), because I've had a printer be reliable before. It's the fact they just added so many in my opinion "duh" ideas.
Automatically cleaning the nozzle, tuning pressure advance for you, a convenient phone app with no bs that just does the thing you want it to do without having to setup wire gaurd and a DNS and etc etc.
I also really respect that for so long people have been mad with companies feim that region for just copying and not innovating and they came out swinging and actually putting in western levels of effort into not violating licenses. That to me is something I wanted to support, rather than creality who is literally currently putting ads in their app and close sourcing klipper against the gpl3.
Like, I really don't want to sound like I'm gushing too much about something youre frustrated with, because I totally have had that feeling too where something just feels like crap to me but everyone else looks like they just found baby Jesus, so I'll try to make less of wall of text.... I'm pretty sure I failed on that front... What can I say, I have many thoughts.
Anyhow, I totally respect you not wanting to make a review about it. I can bet it'd be pretty annoying to tell your honest, real experiences and have other people dump on _you_ for having the bad experience as if somehow their experiences trump yours. I had a similar experience when I tried out Unraid and hated it (its universally loved Nas software that I hate).
Anyways Im really rambling, but I look forward to the multi mat stuff. This thing (the XL) has gotta be a dream printer for hobbyist engineer types. It may not have every convenience but it has more than enough and the the really big gatling gun that is the tool changer. All the possibilities there, like differently sized heads, mixing materials together, like literally, not just on top of each other, the jam detection stuff seems pretty neat (though it is funny creality did it first with the cr6, which was otherwise largely a dumpster fire because it turns out that you actually have to also execute good ideas, because good ideas aren't good enough on their own), and I love the idea of the big fat gear forcing filament through. Im just gonna stop now before I singlehandedly make Google spool up another comment database just for this comment.
Is it the Bambu itself you didn't like, or the AMS? Reliability wise, my X1 has been fine, although replacing the bed thermistor cable was super fucking annoying. The AMS just isn't for technical materials, I don't think. Hoping the next iteration of the AMS fixes these issues, eg: no abrasives. The Prusa MK4 was rushed to market with alpha firmware, so that might shine a light on how much Prusa values reliability when Bambu is eating their lunch.
Eh, I just don't like their design philosophy I guess. TONS of waste in color switching, most of the really hyped tech isn't actually being used (the micro LIDAR really doesn't do what they claim it does), cloud connectivity, locked ecosystem, etc, etc. The features are more to look good for marketing purposes than practical in real life (it has a camera, which can't see ANYTHING if you print black...). It's a great printer for sure, but not necessarily the best thing out there. It's fast, but the prints are not nearly as strong or durable at that speed. For cosmetic prints, it's great. For mechanical or 'practical' prints, there are better options IMO.
I wish you lived close to me so you could repair my MK3, at 80 it is not a task to take on.
I don't do printer repairs.
My Bambu has been flawless, sorry to hear you had problems and I wonder if most of that was AMS related. Most of the forum traffic I monitor is AMS issues. I see Perusa finally move to corexy, from their bed-slingers. Then there’s the cost issues, twice the cost of a X1C with AMS. 😱😱
I really haven't even used the AMS, so all my problems are just with the printer itself. I've replaced the hotend twice (clogged once and the whole nozzle just fell out on the second one), the bed isn't very level (which makes it trick to get larger prints to have a consistent first layer without flaws), and the speed is largely a gimmick, parts are far weaker because they're over-cooled and the extruder can't really dump enough heat into the material to properly melt it.
@@RobertCowanDIY yes yes yes also the auto calibration stuff is gimicky and there seem to be so many unnecessary movements that arent explained in any documentation ive read
@@drumbum7999 Right? Get rid of the lidar and just let me adjust the flow rate. Some filaments (like matte) need to be overextruded a tiny bit and some textured ones like to be underextruded a tiny bit. They add in a lot of gimmicky tech, but remove the ability to make basic adjustments.
@@RobertCowanDIYsince I have a P1P I don’t use Lidar. Now that you mention flow rate calibration, did you switch from the Bambu slicer to Orca? I’ve used it from day one so I forgot about it. Orca is a fork of the original Bambu slicer, which is a fork from perusa, but it adds many handy features like flow rate calibration. That could explain your layer adhesion issues.
both my x1c's have been awesome also. Definitely think they have some sort of an issue with quality control though. The majority of them are great but some seem to just have problems.
Wow, this is really good feedback I feel like. I wonder if Prusa isn't doing enough user testing of people that haven't set up one of these before. Seems like most of the things you talked about that were not obvious or explained well were things that someone would overlook if somewhat well acquainted with the product already, but a new user would immediately call out.
Do you have examples? Some of the instructions were mostly me thinking "I know what's going on". Everything was fairly clear.
As with all thumbnails with a question, the answer is always no, unless the thumbnail also says otherwise.
Not always. In this case, it depends on what you need. If you just need a fast single-extruder machine, it's not worth it. If you want flexibility and the option to print different materials at once, it might make sense. I can't make decisions for people without knowing their application.
Great review, but his opinion about bambulab is highly subjective and not honest for sure, because bambulab is 100% better option than any prusa on the market, the only thing prusa is better than bambulab is reliability, prusa imo is N1 by big margin
The XL is a VERY different printer from the MK4.
Bummer it sounds like your Bambu is a lemon. Hopefully the XL is worthwhile.
Eh, most of my gripes are just part of the design. I don't want to get into it, people are REALLY sensitive to criticisms about the Bambu. But in short, all the tech isn't reliable (or hasn't been for me). The lidar doesn't really do what it's supposed to do, first layers are lackluster, the print beds aren't as nice as the Prusa, the webcam is a nice feature but ultimately useless, and all the 'self checking' stuff has way too many false positives to really be reliable. I've also had two hotends fail on me, which is a bit of a bummer. Everything else 'works', but the extra speed is really the ONLY thing it does that my MK3S doesn't do, but while sacrificing reliability, which is a deal breaker. Once again, just my personal experiences.
XL can print multi color faster then Bambulabs and waste less material 20:27
Eh, it can switch filaments faster and wastes less material, but it still prints slower (overall) than the bambu.
For me is Bambu for the win, Service is excellent getting replacement things in under a week and the Prints turn out great everytime
My first printer was a Tronxy x5s then a Anycubic Chiron and finally a P1 Best thing i ever Bought.
Also what many ppl Forget Bambu is "new" on the market where other brands are getting 10years now
I know a lot of people with Bambus and they are good printers. My experience hasn't been great. It's just the printer for me.
I cancelled mine got got 2 X1C and AMS. I print PLA CF and PAHT-CF in the AMS with zero issues. I run mine almost 24x7 with pretty much zero issues.
I know thats not the case with everyone but I have to say a lot of problems are from people not understanding that much of 3d printers and how to configure slicers.
I know the XL has a larger build volume but its design is a bit off. After having an e3d tool changer these mechanisms are not that solid and cant really print that fast. If the XL was about half the price it would probably be worth it, but its hard to justify the price when there are frankly better printers out there for a lot less.
Unless you NEED the larger size or the ability to print multi-materials parts. If you don't need either of those, it's not the right printer at ANY price. But I would hesitate saying that the tool changer isn't solid. We need to test this out and see if there are any issues with it.
Please update to the latest firmware by bambu for motor dampening. It is magic.
Is it? I have upgraded and it's pretty much the same for me. I guess sometimes it's quieter, but the fans are still the largest source of noise.
@@RobertCowanDIY i agree, the noisy element is the aux fan. I usually run it at 40, by default it is set at 70 maybe a 100 even.
I simply cant get behind this printer on price alone for any version. Its a decent printer, but in my opinion, all that capability with the toolchanger etc is pretty pointless when you dont have an enclosure etc. No input shaping seems a bit silly to not have at this point, even my ender 3 on marlin firmware has had it for a decent bit now, only took a few prints to tune, no accelerometer on the marlin implemetation. Also have to mention the extremely slow lead times for these as it seems that can barely produce any.
There are a LOT of people out there and some people will find a use for the lack of enclosure and toolchanger. It might not be for you, but I guarantee there are some people that will have a perfect application.
They are adding IS....like they have for the mk4.
As for enclosure, they have plans for that too.
Tool changers are not cheap.....but they have big advantages over MMU .....no purge tower.....no poop shoot....no wastage. You can use different materials and print times don't go through the roof when you do colour swaps.
New to your channel, I plan to change my Artillery X1 with a new reliable and capable 3D printer. I make only technical parts. The Bambulab X1C and the Prusa XL are the two that I have selected at last. I wonder if you have already made a video in which you explain why the Bambu X1 C is not your choice of printer. So many people bought this printer and are so happy with it ! Thanks :) For those who want to have some more XL report: czcams.com/video/kF2ACvR4wjs/video.html
The XL and X1C are completely different machines. It's like comparing and SUV to a sports car. If you want speed, get the X1C. If you want ultimate versatility and the ability to do strange stuff, the XL is your printer. For me, the X1C hasn't been all that reliable (not like my Prusa). It's better than something like an Artillery or Creality, but compared to a dialed-in Prusa, it's gonna require more intervention. For me, I've had to replace the hotend twice (clogged nozzle once and then the nozzle just fell out the second time). Also, the LIDAR stuff is hit and miss, spaghetti detection has a lot of false-positives, not all print beds and filaments work with the vision system, etc. So I ended up turning everything off and using it like a 'dumb' printer and it works great.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you for these clear informations. In fact the XL is a budget...
@@filetdelumiere5037Yeah, it's all relatively. The XL is practically a consumable when looking at the price of an HP fusionjet or a stratasys, or even a desktop metal machine. Obviously completely different machines. But now that the X1E was announced, it's more clear that 'enterprise' machines can be quite pricey.
your bambu has about 2-3x the max flow that the prusa has. the reason youre getting matte layers is you arent hot enough. increase your heat and rebase your cooling relative to it. you'll get perfect prints and it will be 2-3x faster than the xl is physically capable of producing parts at. the xl toolhead caps out at around 12 cubic flow, the bambu caps at about 32. layer width x layer height x actual speed = flow. so this gets you to the speed paradox ie printing faster while moving slower if you increase widths or heights, but you still have a lower bottleneck on the prusa.
tried that did not work
@@grampafpv8013 skill issue on your part. Let me know if you'd like some help to learn how to wrangle it.
Check out the video from CNC kitchen, he found that the Bambu (with stock hardware) starts to break down around 20mm^3. I would need to actually test the XL to see what it can do. In theory though, they're developing a high flow nozzle, so it COULD be on the same level as the Bambu.
@@RobertCowanDIY .... it could.... I could also be an astronaut. I mean, I COULD, ya know? In my opinion, and only in my opinion, we gotta measure it as is and compare. It could be a lot of things, but it isn't, not yet. I can't imagine the XL can come close to the same volumetric flow as the X1C... switch that to a 0.4 Nozzle and same layer height, and check the time. Then actually measure it, because the slicer is off by about 10%.
@@JohnSmith-rt5yqI agree, we need to test it out and see. I don't agree that the slicer is off by that much. That's a slicer issue. I mentioned that in my other comment. I'll look into that and see if I notice any discrepancies. But in my experience, the Prusaslicer has been to the minute for every print I've done. I know because when I get ready for a robot competition, I'm setting alarms for when prints finish so I can start another one and it was always dead on. We need to test it further though. Prusa tends to be conservative and Bambu tends to be on the more optimistic side of things. I'd like to duplicate the flow tests that CNC kitchen does on both printers and see how they stack up. I don't really care either way, but seeing it in reality would be nice.
$2500 for the unit, $200-300 for shipping, You have to assemble, tune and calibrate, so multiply that by what your time is worth (value x hrs) for an open frame printer which limits you to pla/petg, tpu without an enclosure.
Then when it comes to actual prints you compared a Bambu 0.4mm nozzle .2mm layer height vs a Prusa XL .6nozzle .30mm layer height and said...yup same speed? Wut? And you can slow outer walls for the "shiny" look while keeping infill fast" with minimal speed loss. Also if you watched the CNC video you can add an highflow nozzle to meet your needs with strength.
I really thought Prusa had a undisputed winner when they announced 2 yrs ago but they carried their old(201X) thinking into 202X. There are to many compromises here before we even get to the tool head changer.
Just to be clear. The tuning and calibration is just running through a wizard, not all that different from what you do with a Bambu or other printer. It's pretty basic. Sure, the assembly is ~4-6 hours, but I just wanted to be clear that there isn't any 'tuning', it's just running through a wizard.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks for the clarification. Guided wizards are much easy to deal with than manual calibrations unless you know your printer in and out.
@@hawtdayumCorrect. In my first video I talk about this a little bit. It's a guided process that's pretty much impossible to mess up and requires no skill.
That’s too bad they didn’t even come close to living up to the hype. However, I give the man props for following through on the project being so close to the war in Ukraine. I can’t imagine everything was readily available at cost as needed. Great video Robert! Thanks again!
Just curious how did they not come close? They delivered a machine that has a tool change and has the build volume originally quoted and requires zero adjustment of the first layer. They failed to deliver on the speed, but that's about all I see it missing. BUT, those are the only things I was paying attention to, so maybe there's something else I am missing.
@@RobertCowanDIY I don't have one, and yes, I probably have too much time scrolling down the comments after seeing a notification but my biggest quam with the XL and probably _the_ reason I didn't order one is that they didn't include an enclosure. To me, that rubbed me the wrong eay, because this things already hella expensive and a stretch for a hobbyist like me (especially because I know I couldn't resit at least getting 3 heads), and because this shape is literally most of an enclosure for free so it just screams 1000 dollar future money grab on something that already costs this much.
I suppose it's kinda unfair because they never said it would, but after the delays and changes, I figured you know, surely they're gunna sweeten the deal somewhat now that times moved on some, and they didn't.
The open source stuff bothers me too, but weirdly it was the lack of the enclosure that just kinda sat in my mind. Like, If I'm spending all this money I want the kitchen sink too.
I wouldn't say I as down on it as the other person though. First consumer tool changer is a big accomplishment. Some really cool projects are going to be popping off of these machines.
They might have been the most reliable printer on the market at one point, but there are many printers on the market now that are just as reliable for a better price and more features. But the speed mimics printers from about 4 years ago and beyond. Acceleration wise and print speed…. No chamber out of the box just surprises me but I think you mentioned there was an add on or something… There is just a lot left on the table such as no input shaper which just doesn’t make since to me. I’m not going to deny they will produce some absolutely gorgeous prints but that’s simply the normal these days. It’s a nice printer, just left a lot on the table and hasn’t evolved from what was 3-4 years ago. Especially for the price. In my personal opinion they would have lived up to the hype if it had a better motion system, used input shaper, came enclosed, better volumetric flow output, even just alittle bit faster travel/ acceleration speeds and a bigger build plate given the price & speed in my personal opinion. ALOT has evolved over the past 4-5 years and it’s a bit mind boggling to think of where this industry will be in 4-5 more years from now. I feel like this would have been a great setup for the price a few years back but its simply over priced as to where it stands in todays industry. Needless to say, because of their reputation, the hype was high. However there is a lot to be said to a hands off approach.
@@CncMACThe XL is going to be a VERY polarizing printer. Some people will like it, others will hate it. Both are right! For me, the load cell nozzles and the tool changer are game changers, and no one else in the market has that right now. For me, the speed isn't really the biggest feature I look for. It's cool, but it certainly can sacrifice overall strength of the part, so it comes at a cost. Your points are all valid, but I think it goes to show that this is NOT the right printer for you at all. And that's fine! But for me, it's compelling.
@@CncMAC they did have the most reliable printers 4 years ago, and they still do. Are they more expensive than most.....yep....but you are paying for all that research and development of hardware and software that other companies then use. You are paying for unbelievable support. I have had to contact prusa 3 times over the years....I have had a reply and a solution every time in under 24 hours. They also support their old machines ......you could upgrade a mk2 to a mk3.....you can upgrade the mk3 to a mk4.....they have added IS to the mk4.....they are adding it to the XL AND the mini.
To me spending that extra is worth every penny.
XL seems like nice machine but your Anti Bambu Bias is clear. put 0.6 nozzle with same layer height in X1 and compare the print time. your not comparing apples to apples.
There isn't any 'anti bambu bias'. I'm a human that has preference.
sure but that preference has a negative opinion of the bambu which is your right. but when you make comparisons it shows a bias.comparing a print with 0.6XL to 0.4 Bambu and mentioining they are took the same amount of time.. atleast do apples to apples comparison for speed.. compare times with same nozzle and layer height. otherwise it seems a bit deceptive, and for people that dont know better they might believe it.
@@adamfilipowicz9260Understood. I've explained this elsewhere, but the bambu does not actually have a speed advantage when you upgrade to 0.6mm nozzle, it's already up against the hotend's limit. So with the Prusa doing the same part at the same time, it's (I think) comparable enough. But I do get your point. It was just meant as a rough comparison, but speed just isn't really a selling feature of the XL.
@@RobertCowanDIYI have two X1C and a Custom Voron style machine. with my X1C when I slice with 0.4 and 0.6 there is a noticeable difference in estimated time. also the volumetric limit of profiles changes from 13-16 mm/s. agreed that XL isnt meant for speed. most larger machines arent actually that fast
@@adamfilipowicz9260 Gotcha.
is it perfect no. but i think you can say they build and work on there own printer they don't steal it from other companies and make big time with it.
They take all the troubles and development of own stuff . we don't want to be dependent of a chines companie that never has make something of there own.
Yeah, I'd agree. Everyone forgets that Bambu didn't have the challenge of making their own slicer or figuring out the complexities that go along with it.
YES i don’t like the bambu thanks dude our the only one
What’s up with all those wires hanging down from the build plate? Prusa needs to hire a industrial designer. This thing looks cobbled together. I’ll pass until they iron out all the bugs
The build plate is all segmented, it's MANY build plates together to form the single build surface. It doesn't look cobbled together to me, they could have put some sort of shroud over it, but it doesn't seem necessary? It's relatively tidy, there is just a bit of slack on all the wires. What bugs are there that need ironing out?
Lack of enclosure really limits the materials this can print. Very slow corexy. No input shaping, still! Glacially slow wifi uploads. Monstrously expensive. This printer is utterly baffling on multiple levels. Prusa should have done an affordable corexy mk4 instead.
The wifi is slow, but I'll mostly likely just use ethernet, as it's more reliable. An enclosure is easy enough to add, but of course it will add extra cost, even with DIY. You're absolutely not wrong on anything here, I hesitated on converting my preorder. I'm still very much on the fence, but so far it's printing great. If it was faster and had input shaping, I'd be completely happy with it.
Prusa still the king
Not really, they are actually in real danger of going bankrupt. Look at the prusa used market and that should give you a clue
Well I'm not sure how you have come up with prusa is in danger of bankruptcy because that is far from the truth as i know of two university's here that have just purchased 2000 mk4 printer each that's a total for 4000 and i know of a dental school that bought 250 prusa xl and i know this because im am one of the people for one of universities that is setting up the mk4's and let me tell not one bambu is in these's places this is just one city here, so i think you should redue your research because you really have it all wrong.
@@grampafpv8013 yeah and businessman where still holding on to their blackberries and Nokias when the iPhone came out. Not saying it will be overnight but if Prusa doesn’t innovate soon they’ll sadly be history
I think it's more that Prusa users are willing to upgrade even with small incremental changes. Look at the luxury car used market. The people willing to buy luxury cars want to buy new. That's why used prices are so low and the value drops considerably.
@@RobertCowanDIY I am talking about the crash of the used market for Prusa. My Prusa i3 MK3S+ before Bambu Lab came out was around 600$-700$ used. After the X1C and P1P they are around 300$-400$ price used. This was even before the i4 came out. I can guarantee you that the i4 is not seelling anywhere close to the release of the i3. I still love my i3s as backup printers but if Prusa doesn’t innovate soon , They will be old news.
If it wasn’t for the size this printer covers in my collection, I’d have already sold my XL. Really disappointed in print quality.
It's certainly hit and miss. I'm thankfully getting decent quality using the 0.4mm nozzle, but many others aren't.
exact same time as the bambu .....well throw a 6mm nozzle in the bambu and say that again lol
6mm is WAY too big, the filament is only 1.75mm.
@RobertCowanDIY lol didn't get the period in front.
.6mm in both would make an interesting comparison
@@spyder2782 You can check all this in the slicer. With the bambu, it's already pretty close to the max flow rate already, so the 0.6mm doesn't really save TOO much time.
You actually don't have to change the nozzle at all. Just change the line width. a .4mm nozzle can extruder decently .3mm -1mm lines without major issues on a bambu printer.
This means you can run lower walls and still push out the same amount of plastic. Set filament profile to bambu for the 21+mm/s flow rates.
czcams.com/video/K6-qhX2S4IY/video.html