Why Don't Record Labels Believe In Young Artists?
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- čas přidán 2. 04. 2021
- In this episode I discuss and question why record labels don't have more faith in artists writing their own material and the current rising trend of older artists selling their publishing rights for millions.
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They're buying the catalogues so they can't be sued for plagiarism when they cop every riff/melody/harmony ever written and say that their latest Instagram Model-turned singer wrote the song.
Bingo
Nope that's not it. All those old classic songs generate revenue through commercial licensing fees.
Bang on.
Exactly
@@earlgray7003 They can do both: earn royalties on the original songs AND generate cookie-cutter hits based off pieces and parts of the original.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.” Hunter S \thompson.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me....HST
Great quote and it probably applies to the music biz but HST actually was referring to TV in Generation Of Swine (p 43).
Making money from music is a modern day miracle.... it was a historical anomaly.... it will never be as big again.
@@lowreztv in the nineties one still had a shot of making at least some money in the music biz because there were tons of tiny, DIY, indie labels that had great distribution. In fact, that was a brand new thing that hadn't existed before, and then it did for a few years, and then Napster happened, and then it was all over.
@@singlesideman that's also when the dynamic for touring versus recording changed for established bands. It touring became more lucrative than selling records (CD's) for big artists, like The Stones, Police, U2, etc. 20 tour dates at half a million profit per show, vs. trying to sell 5 million CD's and sharing the profits with everyone down to the truck driver who delivered it to your local music store.
May I suggest that you start featuring new/ young indie artists music occasionally on this channel? What makes this unknown song great?
that’s a great idea
@@911aDay Cool drawing!
Not a bad idea honestly
There are also a lot of GenX/early Millennial indie artists and bands that still have viable careers. Metric and Stars are good examples of this. Both those bands came up at the same time, have made close to a dozen studio albums and can consistently sell out 2500-5000 seat venues and deliver kick ass shows. Never seen either Emily Haines or Torq and Amy walk through a set - they give it every night and their studio albums get better with every release. Thats a rare thing. There are plenty of others out there too. Saint Etienne, The Decemberists, Belle and Sebastian, Young Galaxy, Arcade Fire...
There's a great interview with Dick Dale where he says, "Want to make money? DON'T sign with a record label."
Reminds me of a job interview once, applying to work in some horrible sugar/candy/shack designed to give the dental industry a boost, when my interviewer asks, "what else do you do?" When I say "I play guitar and sing" he replies, "Tell me more about that 'cause I often book for concerts weddings, events..." I say, I play many different styles... enjoy dipping into different world cultures, and I try to bring a higher consciousness to various issues going on around us." He pauses blankly for a second, smiles, "There's no money in it" and turns back to business.
To be fair, you're not going to make money if you DON'T sign with a record label either.
@@igotobakeries tell that to Dick Dale, Frank Zappa, Joan Jett and more recently Leah McHenry.
@@igotobakeries Have we transported you from the 70s? I'm sorry, let's get you back in the time machine.
Labels don't want to sign people who can write their own music because they want to keep their products formulaic and familiar because they sell more.
There might be a control issue. If Joe Blow can write his own music then he doesn't need a label. Britney Spears for example is utterly dependent on the producers and label and we see where she's at right now (not saying she could ACTUALLY write but as an example) OTOH Jack White and the Black Keys can do what they want and thus are highly resilient against label pressure. Who do you think the label would rather deal with?
Thats unfortunate for them cause I'm about to change the formula 😎
@@dumbguy9386 Pretty ingenious comment for a dumb guy.
@@dumbguy9386 You're right on the money.
I think it also has became a commodity and life-style product. Since the internet, the flow through has become much faster, partly because because of the market, but also because of competition. The whole economy/market at this point seems to me to be very toxic and focused on short-term, reather than long. Every product that can be copy and pasted for free is inherently valueless. This has, I think, casued music to be devalued, but also basically every intellectual property. Just look at Marvel and Star-Wars or any remade mediocre product with a technical modern "up-to-standard" sause!! Completely soulless if you ask me.
A lot of young artists don’t sign to labels, they just do it themselves through the internet. These older artists are just the last thing they are holding on to
Plus older artists are more likely to sell in physical formats rather than downloads..so more money per sale.
Streaming music completely changed the game
muzak artists. dime a dozen.
Well apparently they no longer can, they’re all at retirement age. As for the younger artists, the majority of their generation are pretty much caught up with the newer music technology. That’s why they can be their own record label and claim rights to all their original songs and publish their own music.
If I'm 79 years old and can sell my music for millions of dollars, well, why not? Live out the rest of my days comfortably and be happy that I've made my mark and won't be soon forgotten. Most people publishing their stuff on bandcamp won't ever get that kind of payoff.
"Welcome to the machine" came to mind more than once during this episode.
Yep, "Come in here dear boy have a cigar... you're gonna go far...you're gonna fly high...you're gonna make it if you try...they're gonna love you"
“What did you dream?... It’s alright we told you what to dream.”
Floyd are a case in point; 7 albums in before they hit the mother lode.
@@paulhandley3246 Yet Floyd still had luck at that time as they had Barrett, their very first album was a hit even though not so great a hit... Atom heart mother is also another hit that went on to no.1 if I remember correctly. And from then on Floyd was on fire with Dark Side (especially money's commercial success), Animals, the wall, WYWH and Division bell (in the language of making hits, endless river is also another no.1)
It's not just record labels and publishers that lack the vision. It's everyone in positions of power. It's the artists that have the vision.
An artist said that she overheard a top Producer say that they didn't want to sign people with talent who could song write etc. Because ARTISTS are trouble and are hard to control but people with no talent NEED THEM to steer their career.
Still doesn't explain why people listen to crap... I always considered teenage girls as the source of evil because pop is truly mainly manufactured for their worthless sense for music...
Stn Bch let's keep in mind that song charts are completely manipulated and fabricated. We don't really know what people listen to we only know what the music industry wants to push to us. The airwaves play what they are told to play. Think of all the people in the world that listen to jazz, classical or even metal. They're not even included in 'the list'.
Precisely! This is how they think.
@@laraking804 Look at all the other outlets that cover the same crap, they'll point towards the same thing... Teenage girls are simply the target audience that keep the crap rolling...
@@stnbch3025 I liked your comment because you do have a point but there's also truth in the fact that the girls are still putting their money where their mouth is which is propelling their tastes forward. Many blokes yr 2000 onwards decided to pirate instead. Self inflicted?
As a young artist who writes his own material, I loved hearing this insight from Rick. I hadn't looked at it from this angle. It's funny, but if Dylan were 18 today and trying to get his music heard, the labels and radio would have no interest at all. He'd have to go to CZcams/Instagram and compete for views with everyone else. A genius like that. Imagine. Now think of all the talented young writers in this position today. It's nothing short of tragic.
True but I also think back in the 50s and 60s there was a lot more room on the canvas and the people writing their own songs who had a bit of charisma, stood out - they were the pioneers that paved 'new roads' to where we are today. As an older bloke in my 50s, I wonder if there is any room left on the canvas. My only thought is do what you do - do it passionately, do it for your art BUT also remember that if you want to make a sustainable living that you also need to be business focused.
@@npg68 Thanks for the reply, Doug. You're totally right that there are now more artists than ever trying to compete for public attention; and with small venues closing down, music blogs/magazines, as well as traditional radio and labels now a thing of the past, there are fewer outlets and platforms for music discovery, and the ones that are here (CZcams, Spotify, Instagram) are flooded with artists/musicians, and getting noticed is like winning the lottery. Your second statement rings true also. For me, now in my mid-late 20s and going at this since I was in my mid teens, I confess I've had enough of the business side and its endless expenses, and have been screwed over a few times by shady industry people. I'm happy to just make my art on my own terms and not have to worry about it putting food on my table or paying the bills. I think the best thing for independent artists nowadays is to find one or more primary ways of making a living that allow flexible timing for you to also build your music career, without financially killing yourself for it.
@@hotpotatapie Hey, Don. I have never been interested in working with a publisher or label because I don't want to give up rights to my songs, and I've never been interested in becoming a staff songwriter, churning out multiple songs a day in the hopes that one of them gets picked up by some manufactured pop star; that seems like very soulless work to me (but I respect those that can make a living off it). Some may say that I am very rigid and stubborn thinking this way, and I understand that, but I think you have to be true to yourself and what guides you in your art. I don't think the world needs more manufactured pop music. What we are in desperate need for is true creative artists. They are out there, but nobody has the guts to invest in them, so they have to build their careers themselves. As for getting screwed over, for me, it's been from producers, promoters, marketing managers, and even other bands/musicians. Since those experiences, I've gotten a lot more cautious about who I work with. I've learned that as an indie artist today, you can do most things on your own.
@@musicbyhavens - Copyright your songs first, then put them on CZcams. Then after a few months, make them available on Spotify. I'd personally love to hear them.
@@musicbyhavens Sadly, you are correct. I wish you the best of luck.
The Black Keys did an interview with Joe Rogan where they touched on this topic at great length. They brought up how labels aren’t willing to invest in mid-tier artists who bring in mid-tier revenue anymore, as they’re increasingly looking for ways to minimize costs and maximize profits.
Everything, literally everything is is on the process of being corporatized and privatized. And thus the end of this civilization has begun. Extremely sad and depressing.
@@justinw1765 - You are correct, sir. The end of an empire as it dies in mediocrity.
The stuff that does get promoted is very low-risk. And forgettable. I agree that mid-tier artists deserve a better shake. Just the same, they won't be selling their catalogs 40 years from now. As won't the folks producing all of the contemporary mainstream pop.
As Queen said in Radio Gaga, "We hardly need to use our ears, How music changes through the years."
Most people are surprised that there are still a lot of talented young artist. Because the majority of them aren’t on the radio/award shows where it’s nothing more than auto tune and face tattoos
Or stuff that's 30 years old. There's a radio station near me that in the 1980's was amazing. They played new stuff months in advance. They'd dive into albums and play deeper cuts while mixing in older stuff. You literally didn't need a tape deck. When you turn that radio station on now, it's like going back in time because they play all the same stuff they played back then. THAT'S the problem. The biggest killer of rock music is rock radio.
@@wurm90125 True story. There are some scattered around the country but most stick to the "classics" and older music. There used to be a time where radio was where you could hear new artists but deregulation ended that.
Older bands had years of experience playing gigs and writing. Today's youth don't have the opportunity to do this
@@wurm90125 college radio is just about the only radio with any relevance.
@@wurm90125 Ditto in my neck of the woods - they're still using a playlist that is mostly 60's, 70's and 80's material. Since I move here almost 20 years ago, their only innovation is to add _maybe_ one song in every 20 played from the 1990's.
We are a portuguese rock band that is right now releasing our first record.... and it is sooooo frustrating the lack of support and help we get in our hometown. Last year we released an EP and we almost needed to beg in local clubs and bars to let us play live... They only want cover bands, playing the same old rock songs and dont give a shot to the new musicians that create and produce all their music.. the only gigs we booked were about 100$ for the whole band.
It hurts and its like joking with your work and passion, but we aint gonna stop... The love we have for music, and creating music will always prevail. So if this new album wont let us play live more often and get a bigger fanbase, next year we will record a new album, and we will never stop!
The music industry and radios have to wake up!!!!
Who owns the radios and the music industry? Same people who own the old songs.
@@McSlobo true. But like 80% of nowadays commercial music is garbage. its so cringe listenig to cardy B's and those "lil" guys 😅 and for me its shocking the amount of views they get
What is your band called?
@@GamerGeekThug Its "Terminal", you can find our songs in this CZcams account ☺️☺️ we are releasing each month a new song
Yeah, i used to listen to radio, but now i cant drive without my AUX cable plugged in my phone...
Geddy Lee has spoken of this. He has said Rush would not have stood a chance in today's music business.
They absolutely would have, they just wouldn't have been huge the same way. They'd have a huge following, but maybe not radio smashes.
@@brandongilbrech3983 how do you know that
We had to raise our daughter right, she saw the Rush 40 tour 😇
@@brandongilbrech3983 I think Geddy Lee would know a lot more about the record business than you do. If he says they would never make it in today's industry, then I believe what he says since he's seen the changes over the years.
I think that's true of prog rock as a genre. So many incredible songs overlooked because there weren't enough hooks, were too long or dared to experiment with complex arrangements and themes. smh
Stevie Nicks has attributed this to the fact that people don't buy albums anymore--everything is streamed. She says Fleetwood Mac wouldn't even have a chance today. I know that's how my teens consume music. By the time I was my kids' age I was skipping lunch so I could save my lunch money to buy an album at the end of the week. I wanted a new record more than food. My 14 year old is a drummer who loves all kinds of music-everything from pop to classical to death metal--but doesn't spend money on albums or even purchasing downloads. I don't know enough about the music business to understand how that pay structure changes what investments are made in new music creators, but I imagine it has to have an impact. I know there's a bit of a resurgence with vinyl but that's just a handful of hipster kids. I hope the pendulum does swing back again, because I think this younger generation has a LOT to say if we would just listen.
We're gonna reach the capacity soon and when it does its gonna explode
I can pretty much follow this every day on my job at a record label and it boils down to a few very common things in the industry:
1. Recorded music pays much less. Say its due to streaming, the gradual decline of physical sales, the immense oversupply of music to listen to - artists and therefore labels make less money on new releases than they did 20 years ago. That means there is less money to invest in new artists - especially if the label can't expect to make a return on its investment. So instead of going with a new generation of good writers, most A&Rs are going with artists that have already established themselves and an audience instead of building one with them - meaning its less about songwriters and more about marketeers.
2. Lets say there is a decision to invest heavily in an artist: they don't have 7 years to "break"- they pretty much have a few singles and one album if they're lucky. If that doesn't do it they're dropped and that is a tag you usually don't want.
3. Just business in general. If you can put out re-issue after re-issue and sell more at a higher price than spending money on a small artist, then that decision comes pretty easy to most who have to focus on the bottom line.
Is that a smart way to go about things? Definetly not, I totally agree with Rick here. Its a trend that especially the rock and metal scene should also be worried about. Constantly focusing on the big artists of the past leads you to not having headliners tomorrow. It dries out a genre and its a thing thats happening.
It is an unfortunate truth that art and business rarely mix well together. As you said, developing new artists takes money that would probably put a lot of labels under today.
On the bright side, there has never been a time when it was easier to record and produce your own music. But again, that just means there is a flood of mediocre music out in the ether as well, which would also make it more difficult to get signed on a label.
Is it even worth signing to a label these days? To me, it seems like producing music independently is the way to go. No execs forcing you to make songs one way or another, way cheaper to do (even when you factor in the cost of buying pro-grade recording gear), you own and control your music, etc.
What are the benefits of signing with a label instead of just going indie?
Definitely dumb. It assumes everything stays constant, but baby boomer music only has so long left, and if I were a young person I'd want my own music, not my grandparents music no matter how 'cool'. It will change and record companies, online paid for streaming are already not needed!
@@STSGuitar16 touring? Reaching a larger audience? That's basically it, then they screw you once you start to decline.
@@RandomGuy-ct7ns True. I just look at a band like Vulfpeck, who is totally indie and sold out MSG not too long ago, and their style of putting out interesting videos along with their music on youtube, and feel like that would be a great way to go. Sure, they're a crazy talented band, but their music and production has a sort of attainable quality to it that is intriguing to a young musician like myself. You don't have to write 28-track songs in a pro studio these days to make great music and gain a real following, you can just do it in your friend's living room all live together and really do well. I'm sure it is naive of me to think that all you have to do to get somewhere is make good, honest music, but there is definitely some truth to that. Also Joe Dart on the fen-der bass. That definitely helps.
What could happen soon is we see people self make music and then to sell it these labels just buy the premade art from them giving royalties back but not enough royalties and this is every single label other then a few smaller ones like the Black Keys label, Lookout Records if they still exist, and the like that still let artist record music that are not the big labels.
You'll love this one, Rick. (Sarcasm) A UK based fishing channel I follow had agreements with record labels to use music in their videos, turning over revenue to the artists for YEARS. Out of the blue, some of the labels began demanding additional payment. 5,000 GBP per year for a single video. They didn't have it to give, so they wound up with a copyright strike. So now they've deleted somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 videos to keep from losing their channel. So now they've lost years of work, artists don't receive ad revenue and recognition from their videos, and the label still doesn't get £5K per year. EVERYBODY loses! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. These record label dumbasses sure do love stepping on dicks, including their own
The way the laws are going, license holders can force back payments. You can't just take off your videos and say no more royalties for you. Big labels are at work for such "hidden" and "latent" rights.
I was on a tour in the early 00's where every band dropped off the tour because they got dropped by their label while touring to support their first album. We survived the tour and did a couple more tours but was ultimately discarded by our label less than a year later. It really was a bittersweet experience being on a major label.
Your question at the beginning reminded me of a funny Frank Zappa quote: "All good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."
Everything is relevant to history. Erasing it would be a crime.
bruh
The real artists and musicians that write their own music don't want anything to do with major labels because they don't want to give up their publishing rights. They want to own their own music/masters.
Yeah. We've all seen/known people who have had their careers ruined by the bigger labels. "Getting signed" is now equated with "getting ripped off."
@@mwfgdkfhdhdj some labels sign up bands that compete with their main acts in order to _prevent_ them getting music out. Just like corporations that buy patents in order to _not_ create those products (not pointing fingers at the oil industry 😉).
@@unclemick-synths That was a huge thing in the rock era. Sign bands and shelve the record or simply release it and don't do any promo work.
Hey, you never know. Had a friend who's band got signed to Columbia in thee 80's. He got offered 100K for his publishing and turned it down. The album went nowhere and he went back to washing dishes in Manhattan without a penny...
Then they'll need to put their own money into promotion and recording. That's fairly easy now because the technology. But then again that's also the problem.
8:09 my guess is (haven't finished video yet) they're more concerned with the "artist" having the best possible "customer-facing" image regardless of writing ability. More focus is placed on appearance and performance. Think of the performer as the sales person and the composer as the manufacturer of the "product" they call music. They'll need co-writers even if they can write great, so why put an emphasis on that skill when the gap will certainly be filled? This is what happens when business becomes the priority in art. As a business decision, you need a guarantee that the only person who is customer-facing is the most presentable and approachable on your team. It doesn't matter what your manufacturers look like or how they speak but they need to be able to produce the most consumable music possible. Makes sense if you realize most of the authenticity is sucked out of the music label womb like an aborted fetus. All they care about is money. Period.
I think you’ve nailed it. It makes sense from a business perspective to diversify. So they find a good singer with the right image. Then in the background they can swap out different writers and producers. The singer is basically a puppet to them
@@jennyjumpjump That's why the music of the 60's and 70's was sooooo good! Maybe the 80's...but the quality of the songwriting and the strong melodies was top notch. Nobody sounded like anyone else.
Today, I.don't think a Steve Tyler or Mick Jagger could break into the industry. They aren't pretty enough.
As to Madonna, her fan base was mostly young women.
I don't recall any young men going gaga over her showing off her body. But teenage girls loved it.
@@Weaseldog2001 💯
@Armed baby Tina Turner
In my time in the record business, I have seen it change from my early years, when the top guys at the labels were music lovers (Ahmet Ertegun, Herb Alpert, Clive Davis) who had specific tastes and were willing to put the artist's vision out there, win or lose, to a time where the top guys knew increasingly less and less about music, but thought that it was a fun way to make a good salary, hang out with celebrities, and maybe even get some press for themselves.
The less they knew about music, the less they could judge good from bad. This then evolved (devolved?) into the "MySpace" era, where bands were getting signed for non-musical reasons, as in how many "friends" they had - today it's followers on IG or Twitter. With a lack of executive musical knowledge came a fear of being wrong (fired), and a need to have more control over a process that they didn't understand. Hence, the writer-producer, the outside writer, the covers and today's pop music writing rooms, which gave birth to todays ten-writer song.
It should also be noted that labels started to see young, inexperienced artists as a good business proposition, because they were willing to sign bad deals just to get in the game. The label could then exploit them and flush them before they got smart and powerful enough to demand better contracts, like those "difficult" veteran artists.
Indie artists are having more and more success today, because they are like the pioneers - they write what they like, they release what feels right to them, and they take as long as necessary for their music to find an audience. When they reach critical mass, a major will come along and offer them a deal, not because they're good (which they probably are), not because they're talented (which they probably are), but because they have become a "safe bet". Artist gets a bigger platform, label gets a lower-risk proposition and everybody at the top keeps their jobs for another quarter.
But most of the execs still have no idea whether anything is good or bad. And so they will continue to want "insurance".
I'm 36 now.. so, I remember watching these changes as both a consumer and aspiring artist. I stayed Luke warm at best when it came to being "involved in projects".I was 18 in 2003 and remember everything building toward that MySpace model. You nailed so many things dead-on.
Long story short.. I ended up bartending full time, cus I found myself stuck in the NYC/Brooklyn area in my early 20s trying to find musicians to play with but it was all marginally talented fame seekers.
Then thru bartending, I saw how venues fucking RAPE entertainers.. and how they would just take the deals cus at least their name goes on a chalk board ballast in the middle of the sidewalk. So sad.. some would literally play for drink tickets and exposure.
Man.. this would be a really fun long form conversation to have with you man.
Very interesting insights you have. Love and respect dude. Take care!
over half of what you said were my own suspicions but at least you confirmed them from experience
Interesting commentary regarding the current state of the industry - enjoyed it so thank you.
I think the biggest difference between the "old" model of labels and professional producers vs the "new" is that the economic model doesn't work right now - but this is a temporary dislocation although the "new" model will involve different power players and actors. That old model required lots of money because it cost a lot to keep the machine going. When the digital revolution destroyed traditional album sales, the economic engine that drove the labels changed in a massive way. Couple that with the fact that the cost to record music decreased to the point where anyone could do it, plus distribution channels afforded by digital meant that the labels weren't absolutely required means more dislocation. Ultimately, just like you face on CZcams, the sheer noise created by all of the massive amount of amateur offerings overwhelms the system - except technology can help sort out the creme and help it rise to the top. There are people perfecting their craft all over the world and the quality of amateur content in so many fields is probably better than most of what the professionals produced 20 years ago.
It was hard to write, perform and record a great song in 1960 and it is still hard today. But you don't need anyone's permission to reach a massive audience and that is the paradigm shift.
Be well and keep making great content!
Right on Rick, don’t ever stop doing what you do. This is public service at its finest. Thank you
"Bands like Nirvana are 30 years old!"
Thanks for punching me in the gut on this nice and sunny Monday morning Rick! :-)
Now I feel really old.
Don't worry there's billions of us pal, keep on rocking!
They better not approach Don HENley. Him and his team of sixty copyright infringement searchers will take them down quicker than you can say "Colonel Sanders Kenclucky Fried Chicken."
The mainstream music industry keeps things tight, same few artists in the same few genres, same few songwriters using mostly the same tired progression, same few managers, same few producers/mix engineers/mastering engineers, same marketing teams, same target audiences, the same sales channels etc etc. The mainstream industry owners seek to create a world of known parameters in which they can maintain complete control of. They care nothing for music, its a business where stakeholder expectations are the benchmark of success/failure.
The fact that young folks are rediscovering older music at an enthusiastic rate means it's not a new-kid attention span issue
True. I honestly believe the golden era of music was around 60s to 90s. In my opinion it's not only newer stuff but older than 60s too. Rock n roll from the 50s wasn't really as good as rock from the 60s. Of course if you go way back there is amazing classical music, which isn't what i listen to but it's very impressive songwriting. But i'm talking about *popular music* though, which started with blues. So i think the golden era of that is actually starting to be behind us.
Very true. My son just turned 17 and is now an avid enthusiast of vinyl records. While he buys new artists, his collection is increasingly comprised of music I listened to in the 70s and 80s. I asked him what he likes about these albums. He said, "These are great songs. The sound great."
They're a separate demographic, if I had to make a guess (I'm from the newer generation arguably, so I have some credibility here). The people who listen to popular music of any genre arguably prefer more hooks rather than slower developments of songs and other artistic styles.
That doesn't mean there isn't a real attention span issue that crosses all boundaries of age, social standing, or sex.
@@downtownbillyandthenewjivefive Exactly, this guy needs a science course or something.
Nirvana happened 30 years ago? Thanks for making me feel really old.
Dont feel so bad. It's only 27 years.
@@MrDavito2 Cobain may have been 27 years, Nirvana was 30. Nevermind
September of this year marks 30 years since Nevermind. As far as the public is concerned, they were introduced to Nirvana 30 years ago
I was 30 when Nirvana happened. I was already over the hill then. LoL
Yeah, me too.
I learn SO much from Rick and the people who follow the channel. My “technical appreciation” for music has increased 10 fold as a result. My thanks to Rick, and all of you who contribute. Ya’ll ROCK!
Right there with you, Rick.
My elder sister was a HUGE Simon and Garfunkel fan, and coming from a musical family, Paul Simon was among my strongest childhood influences in my desire to master acoustic guitar, as I loved his style . . . similar in it's own way to David Gilmour's very sophisticated, yet still minimalist "less is more" style.
As the daughter of a jazz pianist dad, and a classical pianist mom, I remain ever grateful that the same sister (and L.A.'s phenomenal independent radio stations in the late 60s and early 70s) turned me onto British progressive rock in the late 60s, which has remained my favorite genre for well over forty years, though these days some of the finest examples are Polish and European, not just British.
And my husband, who is from Warsaw, Poland, but ran a music store in Brooklyn for nine years through 2002, introduced me to the then-up and coming generation of post prog artists, including Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree, all the MANY other British prog bands that never got American airplay, such as Hawkwind, early Genesis, and SO many more; plus Polish artists such as Collage, TSA, Mariusz Duda's main band Riverside, and his side project Lunatic Soul.
For what it's worth, I think Steven Wilson wrote the definitive takedown of the music industry, in "The Sound of Muzak," from Porcupine Tree's album "In Absentia."
His earlier song "Four Chords That Made a Million" is also well worth a listen, for similar reasons.
There's still good prog coming out today, too... hopefully my band included!
It's the same problem in the film industry; the loss of risk taking and only excepting huge success straight off the bat.
Pretty much my favorite forms of entertainment...movies, video games and music have all fallen prey to this. I've spent the majority of this past decade pissed because of it.
Which is why filme are getting stale Boring and formulaic
@@dimebag667 Yet things are better than ever outside the 'establishment' in those realms of entertainment. Every day you can discover great new film, games, music produced and released directly by the creators, ignoring the industry norms. People need to forget about these monolithic industries and companies, and create on their own terms. I just watched one of my favourite youtube film makers Joel Haver after years of constantly releasing videos go from a few thousand subscribers to a million in just a few months, and he embodies this ideal more than anyone.
@@AfferbeckBeats Where are you finding these great things? Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place, but I can't seem to find them.
... And therefore, we shall have the return of Vaudeville. 😁
It’s about the disjuncture between songwriting and performance. They only trust their in house people to write the songs. The performer is just an aesthetic through which the song is delivered
Yup. They need 'guaranteed' ROI. Why take chances on 'experimental' artists? If only we had time to track down the REALLY good 'Indy' artists...
@@slapittywapitty8173 exactly! And not even “experimental” necessarily-even just artists who write their own songs are too great of a risk lol
I will amend that a really big exception to this is hip hop. That’s the one commercial genre where the artist as a performer is really inextricable from the artist as an author. And it’s really special for that reason
Basically, The labels know "the formula" to get a hit. Like Rick's said, they put hook after hook after hook in a song to induce dopamine release, since people nowadays are so desensitize. But they still need a face, that marketable. So yeah they signed these artist, but they can't really give the artist trust to write the song.
Even then, the songs are getting worse and worse.
Excellent video.
The music industry has become allergic to risk. However, without investing / running risks, you add no value. So -- this phase will not last very long as artists discover they are better off without these labels.
The good ole days! It seams that record companies want instant gratification. Shame! Would love to record with you. Your knowledge would be something to behold. Thanks for all you do.
I once took a communications class at a young age, and the esteemed guest speaker said something to the effect of "If you think radio is about exposing young new artists to the public, I have a really good plot of land I'd be willing to sell you."
Never turned back once.
prolly but who listens to radio anymore? spotify and you can find your own music
If there’s one thing the music industry is infamous for, its their inability to read the tea leaves.
I’m not sure if it’s fair to require them to do so. How many music executives, A & R people, artists, or the teenagers buying music could have foreseen Disco in the mid ‘70s, or Grunge in the ‘90s?
I think part of the backlash against Disco is that it didn’t seem to come from anywhere - rock was always attributed to hard Blues, some early C & W, and the British Invasion in the 60’s. Disco had nothing of any importance or interest to say. It seemed to have been ‘constructed’ for the sole purpose of raking in the loot. Grunge seemingly came from nowhere, too (though it was pretty much derived from the local party music of the Pacific Northwest), but it had something lyrically and musically to say. Both were party music. Disco seemed to have only dancing in mind; Grunge was more about personal relationships.
People’s tastes change constantly, but then the audience also changes constantly - sometimes, within a relatively short period of time. Someone who became a teenager in the early ‘70s will have his or her musical sensibility evolve throughout that decade. Someone who became a teenager in the early ‘80s will have his or her musical sensibility evolve throughout that decade, as well. That ‘80s teen will have a different musical sensibility to that former ‘70s teen mentioned above. And so forth. Everything is built upon preceding things and events for the most part.
But sometimes things change out from underneath us, leaving us completely unprepared. As historian Barbara Tuchman once said, ‘Somebody sneezes, and History goes off in a different direction.’ Hence, Disco. Hence, Grunge.
The music industry instinctively knows this. They know predicting trends (or much else for that matter) regard musical tastes is a crap shoot, no matter who or what you know or think you know.
They're too busy smoking the tea leaves.
You’re right, it’s the Alex Da Kid model. A roster of artist/writers he can double dip into. I also think it’s partly what you mentioned before that. It’s not just that labels don’t have confidence in younger artists, they just don’t want to bother. They know they can rely on their stable of writers who’ll just churn out 2 minute bangers out of their Echo Park apartments, who’ve basically written the same song for twenty different people. The labels/publishers will then max out the viability/performability in the forms of streaming, sync licensing, music placement, etc., then move on to the next project. Developing an artist? That takes too much time, financial, and emotional investment. Easier to sign kids they can tell what to or not do and then move on to the next one if it doesn’t work out.
also, before the Beatles, very few bands wrote their own songs. Sammy Davis Jr, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Ray, Elvis Presley - most of these guys had their songs written for them. Neil Diamond, Carole King and that crowd worked as songwriters for other artists well before launching their own careers.
This subject is so nuanced
You can be creative, write all your own songs, publish them, and you don't have to be young or old... You'll just never be famous.
Just like me!
Weeelll... And there Periphery ;/
that's not true. there'e several artists right here on yt that have made a name for themselves and are quite famous
@@bernardhossmoto : And a lot of European metal bands.
Also, "famous" doesn't mean the same thing today as it did in the past. Back when we had 3 TV stations and independent radio stations across the country we had a much more closed system. There were gatekeepers and you had to get famous through their limited and controlled ports. Today there are people creating music that have millions of fans but nobody outside their fan base knows who they are. Its also why we have 10,000 sub-genres of music.
Now that everything is niche, nothing is mainstream (this is also why the remnants of the old "mainstream" are full of junk)
It's not just "Young people". I'm 55, but have been writing songs for 40 years. Of course, I was getting nowhere and then had success in another field. To solve this problem, I developed a career and my musical skills over that time so that now I can fund myself in recording my music with my day job. I do not do this because anyone cares. I pay musicians to play with me, because it's just too damn hard to get commitment (and quality) otherwise. I advertise my music which stands little chance of making any money - just so I can in effect pay for an audience. Why do I do this? Because I believe in music and I owe it to all those inspirations that have come my way through my life. Music is important to me and I believe all music is important to humanity. I will regret not getting it out there at the end of my life if I don't do it. That is what music is about: Music. Not money, not fame, not power or influence. The music industry I feel has largely forgotten that it is really about. So why do these people at the end of their careers want to sell off their works? Frankly, I would do the same in their position, but not because of the money - I'd do it because that would be the best chance of my work staying alive - of the legacy being looked after. We creators of music have a duty of care to music which chose to manifest itself through us. I might be flawed and inadequate, but my songs damn well chose me and I am going to do my best to take care of them.
Hey Dino......Ive been writing for 35 years and pay my bills elsewhere as well.....fame is not music. The two being all wrapped up together is a disservice to music....i've written 5 new ones since jan 1....hop over to my channel and give a listen. Rock on Brother, keep creating
Dino, thats a great thought process. I'm 60 now and had a great life in business and a semi-pro guitarist in bar bands in periods from my teens to my 50's.. The rest of my life I am dedicating to releasing the songs inside me produced in my home studio, not for personal gain, but the love of the muse that finds me from time to time and to leave a permanent legacy for decendents and people unknown to me not yet born to whom my music might resonate and mean something to and inspire them.
"I owe it to all those inspirations that have come my way through my life." That resonated with me -- great sentiment!
"because that would be the best chance of my work staying alive" - had not thought of that but you are right! By selling, older artists give big record companies an incentive to promote their legacy long into the future. Unfortunately this reduces the incentive to promote new artists. No surprise they are willing to pay at a multiple of 25 - with interest rates this low that is cheap to buy the income stream. They can mitigate any risk by promoting legacy artists and lobbying (again) for copyright term extension.
agree with your views, thanks for sharing, I write screenplays not for money, but for the joy of telling stories I enjoy, Hollywood won't look at me since I'm 65. it's okay, just creating the work is itself a great joy
It takes 8 writers to write a sampled forgettable song for todays artist. Today's music is horrible! No one wants to learn to play the instruments. That would take effort. Rick, You are an inspiration and a real talent.
Imho it's not true that people dont want to or can't play instruments anymore . There _are_ people learning instruments and writing their own stuff. There are a lots of talented musicians on youtube alone. But selfmade artists don't need big labels anymore to sell their music, because today they can release it e.g. through bandcamp or other services. So 'handmade' music is still happening, but at the moment it's mostly back in the underground.
@@clemenslangenberger4791 If any of this was true , there would be a renaissance of music that we would all be talking about. Any talent that you see on CZcams are, "artist" ,duplicating, sampling or copying music from past 60,70,80's If it's not that then it's a high hat and that tic tic sound, found on all Rap records with lyrics that can't be spoken due to N and B words in them. Even disco had an end. This metronome music style won't end. Music in the past was inclusive and fun for all. And mainly about the love that men have for women. Not today. The music labels and promoters, did take advantage the artists. That is true.
@@ComedycopterDrake You say that music used to be "inclusive and fun for all," and then say that most music used to be from the most boring concept in existence.
Have you considered that you don't think there is any interesting music coming out because all you listen to is the best tracks of the past? Lots of boring, plain, forgettable music came out in the 50s,60s,70s, etc., and it got forgotten. You only notice the boring, forgettable stuff, that doesn't mean there isn't stuff worth listening to.
What's played on the radio isn't important, since that's not even how most people discover music now. You can find new music that you'll love, and you can find new music that you'll hate. All you have to do is look.
@@HollowRoll "the most boring Concept in existence" This is the only reason men exist, their only reason for being and all they think about all day. Apart from that they were many psychedelic bands which explored Avenues of the Mind.
Exploring music that moves the mind is the farthest place today's music could be.
Music made in the 60s 70s and 80s is overwhelmingly great, world agrees. Today there are no Best Tracks. Todays music is listened to and then forgotten.
The Reason Music isn't on the radio today is because it's it's all super vulgar. Can't be creative unless I use the n-word or B word.
I thought the future would be filled with new bands coming out new music coming out new Styles coming out in the past when it did throngs of people looked forward to seeing these new bands and being involved in the music not today you'll get a couple of caps popped off. Even new modern music from the likes Billie Elish turns out Carly Simon did it first and better. As Howard Stern pointed out on his show. My statement on music is what stern repeats on his sat radio show that he just resigned for 129 million a year, for 5 years.
One could argue The level of a songwriters greatness is in direct proportion to the amt of life experience they have. Many young ppl these days don’t seem to desire experience or adversity.
If the big labels insist on continuing to block all uses of these songs, for example in Rick's educational videos, then they will sadly become forgotten and unknown to future generations.
I fully agree with you
and Refuse to put the songs on to CZcams themselves.
nope, all the music is bought up and will constantly remind us in commercials or your favourite retro netflix series.
The music industry has a history of figuring out the best thing to do, and then doing the exact opposite.
As a sideman who works for many singer songwriters, I can testify that there are some really amazing songs being written today. Including great hooks, amazing lyrics and colourful chord changes.
Can you name a few?
Sure, I’m currently working on the release of Jeff Straker’s new album release that will be videoed this week. His lyrics are profound and he tells amazing stories and the music has great passing chords and memorable hooks. Also working with another artist by the name of Dara Schindelka who will be releasing a tune called grass. It’s another tune that tells a great story. My point is, that there are some really great new songs out there, it’s just a matter of searching for them. You’re not going to find them on corporate radio, that’s for sure.
@@KristopherCraig Jeffery Straker earned a sub for me. Got a great voice. Somehow I'm not surprised those were Canadian artists. Canada seems a bit more in-touch with normalcy on the media side than we here in the States. A bit.
There are three contemporary artists I really like, but that's after an exhaustive search.
@@12ealDealOfficial I also forgot to mention an artist that just released her album by the name of Marie-Claire Winnichuk. Forgive me for not being to text savvy, as I’m in my late 40’s, and CZcams is slightly foreign to me, due to the fact that unusually a musician working on a cruise ship with very limited Wi-Fi. Anyway check Mary Claire’s album out I think you’ll really like it. She’s a great songwriter. I would love to keep this conversation going with you. I’m currently just starting my private lessons day. But I’ve checked out a video on your channel I can’t wait to see what else is there.
Name em.......
Thank you for this! Very comforting video. I’m a singer/songwriter/performer...Working my ass off...I love being a musician....sometimes I don’t feel seen though and this video and all you said...it really got to me in a great way! Thank you!
As a person doing music as a hobby, this kind of stuff is the reason I don't even bother trying to do this professionally, let alone the fact that I know I'm nowhere near good enough for such things.
Same for me! I recently picked up my guitars after a 20+ year hiatus to raise kids etc. I got them back out recently, picked up a DAW and just jam around on it trying to figure it all out. Made some videos... The sole intention was so I could go back and watch what the heck I did, and to share a few songs with my parents who live out of state. I got me 3 subscribers and I almost died laughing! So of course, I went to work and told everyone I'm going to be the next internet influencer, with my own makeup line, a ball shaver, and some smelly soap. The entertainment value to me is priceless!
Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton have both stated that you only need to know one chord to write a song. Listen to a lot of punk bands who made it not knowing anything about playing music.
@@leighfoulkes7297 Neither Hendrix nor Clapton ever wrote a one chord song tho
Something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I write songs that barely anyone listens to. But I love doing it, and continually learning about songwriting and improving my craft. But if I somehow turned it into a source of income, would it just become a cause of stress in my life, instead of an escape? In theory, I would love to do nothing except write songs, and try make a living from it, but I wonder if it would taint my love for it. I think it's a case of "be careful what you wish for".
Don't ever think your stuff isn't "good enough"....what you may think isn't "good" someone else may think to themselves "wow...this person really speaks to me". If you write from the heart, and aren't afraid to show your soul...someone WILL get it. And don't make your songs too complicated. Take a song like "Live Without Me" by Halsey. Its basically just 3 chords played in a loop, but the lyrics are something that everyone can relate to...heartbreak. That song went to #1 and stayed there for a few weeks and made Halsey a pop superstar. A simple melody and simple lyrics that really hit people in the feels, and it worked. When it comes to writing songs....use the KISS method of...Keep It Simple Stupid
I once listened to a famous Italian producer. He was asked those same questions. He answered: “we DO hire artists, but we really don’t know who will resonate with young people, it’s a hit and miss job. The panorama is so fast, we literally throw anyone on the net, on the radio, on spotify and see what works, but we just cannot afford to do things like 20 years ago, the technology changed everything, so we invest less but on many more artists than before.” I don’t know if this is true but here’s this for you.
There is probably some truth to that. As with many things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Thanks Rick, speaking of musical hooks, my wife went to school with Jim Peterik of the Ides of March and 38 special. He was a master of hooks and helped out writing with other bands. Talented fellow and a really nice guy.
A couple of things that went through my mind is the recent law that reverts publishing back to the writer 37 years later, and now the writer can sell their publishing and get missed monies. If the the writer didn't own the publishing all those years, they are not really missing anything anyway, but now have a great opportunity to cash in.
I would love to have been a decent writer in the 80s, then maybe I could have latched on to someone who would help me develop as a writer and performer. It took me almost 20 years to write those first 100 songs that suck before they started getting better. Then years of people saying, "It's almost there..." without helping me understand why it wasn't there.
I've watched many of your videos and have a lot of respect for what you do. Please keep doing it! And I heard WSM-FM play "Carolina" a couple weeks ago! Very cool!
I don't make anything off of my music but it doesn't stop me from creating more
Me too :) it’s fun
People that earn from music also love what they do and in almost every case have made tons of songs they never profited from. But when you work mainly with music you don't have time for a day job and so earnings from music becomes important. Hence the topic.
👍👍
Wow what a trooper
Same. For me, I treat it as writing the music I will have to listen to for the rest of eternity. In that sense, it becomes much more personal, and I value other people's music a lot more too. It really makes me hate the music industry more and more.
They're probably looking at how they'll use these songs to advertise products and the income they would get that way.
Old popular music in advertising doesn't work when that generation is gone, so I guess that corporations are counting on another 20 years of milking classic rock until boomers like me are no longer buying consumer goods.
@@davedavid7061 It can't cry Pontiac, but now I'm crying over the real SAAB story.
Hello from France ! I've been warching your videos for a while and I always find them very interesting. Please go on sharing your incredible knowledge on music.
Excellent analysis! You are so right. My favorite band, The Cars, had a hit album with their debut, but what most people don't realize is that Benjamin Orr and Ric Ocasek had been playing together since the late 60s in various bands they created like Milkwood, Richard and the Rabbits, and Cap N' Swing without much success. They toiled for 10 years before finding the right mix of band mates when they recruited Elliott Easton, Greg Hawkes and David Robinson and switched from folk based rock to New Wave. Ocasek and Orr never gave up and were rewarded for their perseverance. Good luck with that today. How many bands are being lost because they can't produce a platinum record right out of the chute?
Rick,
The situation now is very similar to the late ‘50’s to early ‘60’s. Faces out front to sing company songs.
Gives me hope then that the circular nature of things will then push forward back to artists with musical and songwriting ability!
I was thinking the same thing. Before those four guys from Liverpool showed up (Actually, the Beach Boys and Dylan too), it was mainly singers sing, musicians play, writers write (e.g. the Brill Building folks like Carole King), promoters promote, frontmen/women look pretty etc.
@@kenkur27 In the ‘60s, it was The Beatles and everyone else.
Rick, it would be great if you could spotlight more of these up and coming young artists on your channel!
Agreed. I would like to listen to some Beato Mixtapes
@@RedroomStudios haha, a little harsh! I'm not asking for him to direct my choices, but to give more attention to new artists so that they might receive more recognition.
@@RedroomStudios lmao, true that dude.
Very Good and very Fair point. If you believe it, you gotta follow thought and do it! Actions speak much louder than words!
@@RedroomStudios Because you don’t share his taste in music doesn’t mean his is bad and yours is good. Who made you the arbiter of musical quality?
Rick, you have the best content on CZcams. "These guys were pros at writing and recording. But, it took people that believed in them... to make record after record to develop as artists."
It's all about the money, still is and always will be. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. Thank goodness for the producers and mixers. Very nice vid, Rick 👏👏❤
Taika Waititi said that in his pitch to land the directing job for Thor Ragnarock, the studio executives they said, "Hey, thats a good song. What is it? "He said.. Thats Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song. They had no idea.
“I put Immigrant Song over the top of it, and then played it for them. And they were like, ‘Oh that’s really cool. That’s a cool song. What’s that?’ I was like, [deadpan] ‘It’s Immigrant Song, Led Zeppelin, one of the most famous songs of all time.’ They were like, ‘Oh cool, never heard it before, very cool.’And I was like, ‘Oh f-, really worried now.’ Er, and then, yeah, when I got the job. But from the start we’d always talked about using Immigrant Song, in the film, because it just makes perfect sense for that character, doesn’t it?” - Taika Waititi
WHAT!?!? I get the title isn't in the song but how can you go through multiple years of life without hearing it??
@@thegraysonzelik Even kids in the Y Genration before that movie came out new the song.
@@thegraysonzelik They are execs. They don't have souls so they don't listen to music.
@Bosingr perfect
I find this literally unbelievable.
I am a radio presenter/music promoter in the UK & support independent artists. I know lots of talented singers & bands who write their own material & get very frustrated with the fact that publishers & labels aren’t interested in them.
It is such a shame that these artists hardly ever get known outside their local music scene.
Do they have CZcams presence? I get 99% of my new finds on CZcams. Certainly in Ottawa the only relevant radio station is the university, the rest is focus-grouped pap for boomers and people who only listen to safe crap.
its your job to get them on the radio...the people at the top have no confidence??
no...they cant milk ALL the profits away from the artist
@@unclemick-synths a number of them have their own channels, some are featured on mine.. Daz ‘In The Hat’ Hull
@@kazzTrismus I play as many tracks as I can on my show, also share posts on FB.. During Lockdown I also created a new group “Hat Tracks Live On FB” where independent artists & fans can share FB Live events, virtual gigs & videos made during lockdown
@@dazinthehathull7928 subscribed 👍
Rick, I can't thank you enough! I wish I had met you in the 90's I lived in Atlanta then. I'm still close by and I'm so grateful for you work. I hope we will meet someday. be safe out there.
Record companies don’t believe that young artists can replicate the mithology that surrounded those historical figures, for the simple reason that today’s music artist can’t have that distance and mistery around them, due to social media. They are destined to be used for one-time hits and abandoned
As an unknown musician it must be tough these days. I'm lucky to do music as a hobby.
In some ways it's less hard. Getting non-covers gigs in London was as much a struggle in the eighties as pre-COVID. Now there's CZcams etc. and there are no suits as gatekeepers.
Rick, I'm a 22 year old subscriber and I'd guess that I'm on the young end of the age range of your fans. I would love for you to run a parallel "What makes this song great?" series for current artists, at least post-2010. I really enjoy your Spotify Top 10 videos, but it would be great to take a look at lesser-known artists too. Like you said, there are so many great artists out there, and though the classics are classics for a reason, it would be great to dive into recent songs as well. Since many young artists are hoping for virality, your videos could be a great way for them to gain exposure. Some of my favorites include Young the Giant, Bad Suns, and Declan McKenna, if you might take a look.
I second this!! Rex Orange County is another phenomenal songwriter.
@@MaosTL Rex, Cage the Elephant, Boy Pablo, Hippo Campus, so much awesome music!
@@guskarau3038 Burrito Bad Boys r good 2
So many Royal Blood songs, and Rick has already said that he liked their new single on the spotify top 10 video
Like A Storm!
I truly appreciate Rick Beato bringing up these questions. I'm an old guy that doesn't write original music. I liked forming a few cover bands but I wasn't trying to form an original rock band. But I noticed how horribly things have changed in the past few decades just by doing a bit of "research" if you want to call it that. Just watching or listening or reading what is out there about bands that formed in the 60's or 70's. That pretty much gives you an idea of what the music industry was like and it was obviously very tough, but much more free and open than it is today and much more opportunity although making a living back then was easier it was obviously very tough.
For example, read Tommy James biography, I think it was Tommy James. He thought he should have made many millions of dollars more than he was paid. He was probably right. But in the end he made many millions and without some of the greedy people he ran into along the way, at least gave him the opportunity that he couldn't have on his own. Or watch Tom Petty's two CD documentary, you can look it up. Excellent. Or watch the movie The Last Waltz about The Band. Excellent. Point is you get a picture of what it was like in the 60's through 70's anyways. Or read the biography on the great music producer or whatever he actually was, Bill Graham. Very interesting. Gives you a glimpse of what was going on. One thing you will find out is a very stark contrast between the way things were a few decades or more ago and what it is like now.
So I salute Rick Beato for bringing this up.
Great talk, Rick. In Brazil the same happens. It seems there's no space for new music, only the old standards, and we, composers, have to make a living playing the classical stuff, as if all the music the world needs is already made and there's no room for anything else.
Thanks!
Like Steve Lukather once said: "There are 10 writers for one song and there is Bohemian Rhapsody written by Freddie Mercury."
Multiple writers wrote that Beyoncé song about girls ruling the world, but you can't bash Beyoncé. I think the government actually passed a law against it. :-D
@@stevenmaginnis1965 shes a pop artist though, they havent been known as songwriters, the majority of pop hits had multiple writers
You shouldnt judge a fish on how it climbs a tree
@@ThirteenAmp: Yes, but the message is clear: Pop rules, rock drools. There's a war on rock and roll, and the pop/rap forces are winning. :-(
So what though?
@@stevenmaginnis1965 There' s no war on rock or funk or whatever.
It' s simply a question what sells best.
If death metal would sell millions of millions albums and pop or rap don' t guess which musician' s arses music industry will kiss.
These guys would give satan a b...job if it helps making money.
Smart young artists have discovered they don't need record companies. They can put out their own music in their own studio for as long as they want. They might not make a living at it, but they'll be making their art. Some of it is brilliant, some of it sucks. YOU DON'T NEED RECORD COMPANIES ANY MORE.
True, artists are able to record on there laptops and post online... but even the greats had help.. Rick Rubin, Mutt Lange, Phil Spector.. have just as big of impact on the industry as the artists themselves.. As Mic Fleetwood said, you can make music on your own but it's better when doing it with others..
@@tomdriscoll8667 Not to mention George Martin. But the times have changed. Look at Billie Eilish. Her and her brother didn't need more than a bedroom and a laptop. People say there'll never be another Dark Side of the Moon. They're wrong. There will be great albums, but the old people won't like them, any more than the hippies from the 60's liked the 80's silly big hair metal bands. As if good music could only have been made by a big name producer. Mozart didn't have one. Neither did Bach. BUT it IS a bit of a shame - I think a Producer CAN make a big difference. IMHO, Rush did their best work with Terry Brown. They were a worse band without him.
The problem with "oh you might not make a living" is that music takes time and effort. High levels of skill at a musical instrument takes thousands of hours to develop. You need to tour and perform to develop as a group. Songs need to be written, produced, refined, recorded, etc. And that takes time and money. Do you honestly think all the artists of old that Rick is talking about could have made all the music they did if they weren't making a career out of it?
@@danieloneil7693 This is true, there's always a level of gatekeeping. However bands have always done their own independent touring, distributions deals, and promotion deals with labels, on a strictly limited basis. Midnight Oil is a great example of that. A lot of it is about getting the networking and contacts to be able to do it which is the greatest challenge facing an artist.
Yeah as a young band we raised via crowdfunding most of our studio costs, for our debut album. And we only have 700 likes on Facebook, so we are hoping it will get easier and more reliable to raise that money as we gain fans. It's a product, people are paying for extras or simply a pre order of the album, so it's not just relying on generosity. I like the idea of being paid lol but we are realistic, as long as we can play shows and make music we are happy. Before the pandemic we were breaking even on being able to generate money for rehearsal and up front costs for merch.
Rick, to start with, I love the stuff you've put out on your channel for ALL sorts of reasons. You pose the questions here that include (sic) "Why don't the record publishers bring in new talent who can write AND perform their own music?". I agree with your position that there MUST be new, young talent out there who can write AND perform their own music. In fact, if you look around the internet, there are all sorts of folks out there performing music that they, themselves have written. This was supposed to be one of the promises that the Internet was to fulfill - - let the "little guy/gal get the exposure without bowing to "Big Music". The problem with this in BIG music publishing is that the "suits" (the A&R folks, the company producers, the executives, etc., etc.) need to be able to say (for the enhancement of their own egos and careers) : "I put this music together!". It's not enough to simply say :" Hey! I found this TERRIFIC talent. They can write, perform and produce great stuff". The "suits" (as we used to refer to the "corporate types" in my field, motion pictures) want to claim much larger hand in the creative process. In a creative field, like music, like movies, like book publishing, just being a facilitator is not enough. YOU, the facilitator, have also to find a way of being "creative". Bringing the real creative folks together may just not seem like enough to feed the creative ego. There, of course, is another important reason for the newer musical business model. CONTROL. If you break out the creative jobs among a number of folks no single person has the power. The Company, the "suits" retain the power and control of things. That's MY rant for the day.
Love your take.
I do think there's also something to be said for the skill of song writing that is separate from skill of performing and/or making records, yet I see no reason why all these skills can't be taking place simultaneously.
As a young singer songwritter, I just want to thank for your support!
When this kind of word come from such a master as yourself, it feels a lot more sincere.
Thank you!
I am almost 70 and I will continue to write and record my own music because I love the process !
That's funny. I'm almost 60 and I will continue to write and record my own music even though I hate the process.
I do love mixing, though.
I am highly educated, have been immersed in my guitars for almost 56 years, and knew enough about business to run a multi-lawyer office for 20+ years, YET, you bring real knowledge about music to me. I do not care to be discovered and promoted. I play acoustic blues on a Republic brass-bodied, nickel plated resonator guitar. I love my secret pleasure; I don't want to share that. And, really, who wants to pay real bucks for a 75 year-old Caucasian blues player?
As far as timing of why labels are interested in this "now", could it be that they want to step in before the artist passes away, and their sales spike? I suspect you'll see a lot more compilations coming out and commercial jingles of our favorite songs. Just heard one with Homeward Bound.
Morbid, but from their perspective it would be a wise business decision. And once that artist passes away, why not make a bio pic about them and make money off the soundtrack with their catalogue? It's all in poor taste, but totally possible.
It's about control. If a label controls the songwriting they control the artist. If you have an artist that writes their own stuff, they are going to be a lot more difficult to control.
Good to hear some real talk from the heart and not just scripted over-engaged youtubers trying to sell you their video. It's the same with music, people want the real stuff. That is one of the reasons why the top-hits we have today doesn't last very long, they're all fabricated, intentional, quantized and sometimes even over-produced.
Thanks Rick. I think today's young adults appreciate the music of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s more than most people realize. I can only speak from personal experience, but my kids - now 28 and 26 - have playlists as good or better than my own. And you're absolutely right - there are some killer young musicians out there. The industry needs to look long term for a change, and provide support to them.
Very interesting discussion. You made
some really good points. I’m almost 70 & all the artists you spoke of are of my time. As much as these artists in the old days would have said we aren’t in for the money, by the time they tasted the money I suspect they wouldn’t choose to go back to being broke & struggling. Cashing in now in their older ages makes sense, while they can. The catalog in five to 10 years (like you said) may not be as popular. People like me who were teenagers in the 1960’s will be dying off in the next 15 to 20 years.
This is not a rant - this is a well thought out explaination of the reality. Been reading a lot of band biographies from the 70s until 2000s and what you are saying is so true.
Yeah, the odd thing is Bob Dylan would probably never get signed today.
so true
Bollocks
@@honnaconna7312 nah this is true, record companies don't care about the art of music any more and like rick says, allowing an artist to progress is just too much of a gamble for the record companies now
That’s a really important point. Also his first album was not received well which goes back to what Rick said that there was a lot more nurturing back then. Also Dylan had the business sense to get his publishing rights back. I think at the beginning his manager was controlling that. Then again Dylan is now contesting a claim on his deal because the widow of Jacques Levy is suing for co-writing some songs on Desire. Not sure it was Desire, but... what Art Garfunkel? Did he have no say in the early songs of Simon’s? I could go on....
Oops I meant what about Art....
Loved it. Agree wholeheartedly with the dilema facing the business and especially new artists. Some producers only want to work with BIG acts and some want to create them. Same with the labels. But sadly there's less and less freedom to help acts get to where they deserve, good music is all around us but misunderstood more often than not. Dylan and the grandfathering acts deserve their publishing deals, they have given so much, but our generation needs to earn it too and be paid more fairly. It can only get better. Take risks, have hope, try and try again. We still make great records.
I grew up around music. My dad is a multi instrumentalist. His mom and dad are. There mom and dad's are. Music runs heavily in my family. Naturally I inherited that passion for music.
I started playing guitar at the age of 10 (I'm 32 now). I grew up around bluegrass and country music and I got hooked on country music. I was influenced by Brad Paisley, Keith Urban and Brent Mason. I always wanted to play guitar like them there some of country music's most phenomenal guitarist - I've always wanted to play like them.
I started out by playing at local shows with my dad and grandparents- bluegrass shows. Then as I got older I continued but I wanted to do my own thing so I started putting myself out there and got into church music. At this age I was about 17-18 years ago.
When I got into college I started meeting other musicians around my age started playing at bars and clubs getting exposure as a musician to music like Classic rock (Pink Floyd, Eddie Van Halen, Eddie Money, Bon Jovi Ect...) and with all this I fell deeper in love with music.
With all this I wanted to make a living as a musician and tour with bands. So I moved to Nashville and went to songwriting retreats with some pretty famous people and got to open for bands like Luke Combs, Billy Currington ect. I loved it I thought I was gonna make a living as a session musician.
The thing that ruined for me is the topic that u discussed in your video today: Younger Musicians not being accepted by older musicians for whatever reason (Also the stigma and sexism of females but that's a whole nother story) and the rest is history- long story short. I eventually joined the military because I felt hopeless and didn't feel like my life was going anywhere anymore.
I really appreciate guys like you Rick that don't put don't the young crowd like me and you stand up for us and inspire us to keep going. I love videos like this. Stuff like this is the reason I'm subscribed to you Rick. Thank You Sir! 😁
I almost never comment on CZcams videos but as someone who represents artists selling music royalties or assets I thought I might have something to add. The reason these older artists have made huge profits from the sale of their catalogs and young artists don’t it simply based on a financial risk assessment. Bob Dylan has a huge catalog that spans decades. This means that he can show consistent earning over that time and the depreciation (very rarely appreciation) is very predictable. The dollar age is also very high meaning that that much of the earning comes from songs that are older, again a sign of investments ability. This plus the fact that his catalog is what buyers would call “culturally relevant” means that he can get additional multiples for his earnings. The buyers have done the calculations and have determined that by the time the copyright expires in 70years after his death they will have made a profit. It is a investment asset. Many of these investment funds buying publishing and sound recording royalties are from the finance world and are not out to predict the next bob dylan. It’s simply too risky. A song that came out in day 2019 and got millions of streams will never get as high of a multiple because it is incredibly hard to judge the depreciation. One of the biggest things I’ve taken away from this as someone who is a professional musician and on the industry is that if you learn to view your art through the perspective of a financial asset you are negotiating with a label like you would a loan from a bank the whole industry makes a lot more sense and you will have so much negotiating power.
Thanks for these good points and check out Bob Dylan's output in the art world showing yet another area of his expertise which he excels in especially now that making a living from music for most has become too complex
How does understanding this give you negotiating power?
@@danieloneil7693 When you sit at the table of either a large indie label or a major and it’s subsidiaries what the final recording/publishing agreements vary greatly but generally there are 3 main pieces. There is the parts directly related to how the album will be recorded, marketing, timelines etc. This is what most people think of when they think record deals and what many artist teams spend the most time negotiating. In my opinion this is a mistake. The second part are all the sections dealing with copyright ownership and who is controlling these songs as an asset. Most people overlook this in favor of the more glamorous parts like how big the advance is. But if an artists team really understands how this part of the contract is set up they can negotiate for larger ownership through copubliahing and future reversion of copyrights, less layered fees taken out by the label, no cross
Collateralization of royalty streams, etc some of the time. And if the label won’t you never should have signed the deal. You try to get better deals from banks, car dealers, and similar places by negotiating the boring things like rates and fees. Do that when youre being offered a record deals and you will be much better off. The last part is definitions which can be used in sneaky ways to change how things like net profit are calculated and what counts as a delivered song.
@@davidallanmusic If you understand investment valuation, revenue streams, and how to self market you enter contract negotiations 3-4 step ahead of the average musician...it also means you will be capable of smelling a bad deal a mile a way.
I thought it might be that time has become short and that if they no longer perform the songs at least they can make a large dime and here the songs on a Chevrolet commercial. That or the songs no longer hold the same meaning to the artist and a profit is more important than a legacy.
Now This is a topic worth talking about
And yet you didn't... lol
Always come down to time and money. Great video. Thanks for keeping music alive. The times are changing.
Do a monthly video highlighting the Top 10 Instagram/CZcams artists you've found. I think that'd be very interesting
As someone who writes a lot and has dreamed of being on the level some of these legends are, this has been a kick in the face. It hurts my heart that people would rather have repeated beats and overused tracks than actual music. Music, to me at least, has always been about expression of emotions and human nature. It's supposed to make you feel a certain way. If it doesn't than it's no longer expression, it's noise.
When I still performed I used to write music specifically to perform because I knew nobody would come to watch me play my music. I still have songs I play regularly that nobody else has ever heard.
@@InceyWincey - why not put the unheard songs on youtube ?
It's called marketing and big $$$ fast and easy. Sell a "Star" to little girls or don't sell at all.
@@andyburk4825 I don’t think they’d mean anything to enough people for it to be anything other than a self indulgence.
In the 70's and 80's when I was right into the pub rock seen in Australia, a lot of bands got recorded because they became so popular performing, even after being rejected may times by record labels. Michael Gudinski worked this out and got a lot of the artists.
Another great video Rick, Coming from your generation, I'm just as bemused as you as you rightly point out the artists from the '70s 80s and 90s (after the pioneers in the '60s) were given time to develop and write better songs, The focus in the artist has been mentioned here already and yu metnioned the trend for a team of songwriters, But the other aspect is the artists wanting songwriting credit. An artist will employ a team of songwriters to write a song and then say we won't record it unless we get songwriting credit. This is a depressing development. A lot of older former artists have become songwriters to stay in the game and are writing songs for the younger artists. The artists don't need to write songs when they can get their record labels to get them songwriting credit. In many cases, the artists are not interested in writing songs. They just want the fame and the money. Of course there are exceptions but there seems to be a split between the 'artist' who is basically someone with an image that can appeal to young people and the songs are written by people we never see. No one cares about them. Everything is focussed on the artist. I hope, like you, we might return to an era where true artists who write their own songs are given a chance and more importantly loved by the public but, I fear those days are over because money has taken over the industry and in order to succeed , you have to follow the rules set forth by the money men or do it the old way by touring and building up a following resulting in minimal success.
I appreciate this so much. I'm in my late 30s and have spent many years learning to figure out how to build my own platform. I remember being my late teens and early 20s - I moved to Chicago in the mid 2000s hoping to get connected with people to help me learn and grow. I was also backing up a lot of folk as I believe that's only right. It makes me think of an interview I saw with Vinnie Caleutta where he talked about young people with big hopes and dreams who show up to find the floor's gone. I am hopeful that legilisation will "force" big labels as well as streaming sites to pay more which is only right... but let's be real - the industry itself was guilty of extreme greed and closing ranks around baby boomers - I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I appreciate this content! As a young musician, knowing that there's someone out there caring for the younger upcoming artists motivates me quite a bit.
Sia came out of Australia, and is one of rare songwriters who could transition into the mainstream while protecting her integrity as a songwriter in the 2010-2020 period. "Cheap Thrills" peaked at #1 in 2016, "Chandelier" at #8 in 2014
Well, nothing personal against her later work, but I wouldn't even remotely compare Chandelier to something like The Church of What's Happening Now. The former is incredibly artificial in comparison to that earlier work, in the short attention span theater way that Rick was talking about.
@Armed baby Sia’s second solo LP (first on Columbia) came out in 2000 when she was 25. She’d also made two independent LP’s (one with a band, one solo) and sung on Zero 7’s ‘Simple Things’ LP (which was a top 40 hit in the UK) by that point. Yes, there was a period in the middle where she concentrated on writing for other artists, but saying she only got signed at 40 is somewhat missing that she’d released six LP’s (and a lot of work behind the scenes) by the time she became a big name in the US.
@Armed baby Sia's music was already being played in the US on MTV by 2000/2001 20 years ago at the very least.
I would say the main reason for outright purchasing rights is for marketing, ie; commercials - film/movies/TV series and how singles are being sold from such branding.
Another excellent video as usual. The problem runs deeper with regard to how kids listen and relate to music when attention deficit is king of content.. As a private music teacher, I encounter many students who bring no connection to taking the time to listen to music that isn’t connected to a funny meme soundbite or video game parody etc. and even reject actual songs from artists of their own generation, never mind music from previous decades. Many student’s generation of parents, themselves, often don’t provide them with a background of music listening appreciation from their own experiences to relate to so the activity becomes a disposable afterthought to the student as greater emphasis in sports and other activities are emphasized and developed so music appreciation gets pushed to the background.
The flipside, as pointed out by Rick, is the thousands of talented young artists seen daily on CZcams, Instagram etc all competing for breakthrough to the attention deficit audience they are attempting to entertain. The resources are more readily available to develop skills from sites as this and many others and become a self developing artist but a talented youth’s ability to become a breakout will likely continue to decline as the pool enlarges. Kids are smart enough to realize this and the downward cycle continues.
Back in the day you’d go to a record store, buy an album, then go home and listen to it as a whole. Technology has altered people’s listening preferences. But also the major labels have dug their own grave by shaping the industry around formulaic songs created by their own writers and performed by people who they know will sell instantly.
Record companies now run by MBAs, not by people who love music and musicians.
The "endless hook" mentality of current top 40 songwriting is what really grates on my nerves. The whole song is about getting to the hook as fast as possible and repeating it as often as possible. The whole song becomes one continuous chain of hooks. It's exhausting to listen to.
Yes. I look at my own record/cd collection and wonder what happened. I’m grateful for the chance to discover different artists on Spotify , like Steven Wilson, that I don’t own but...I’m somewhat torn. Haven’t bought anything new in years. I tend to look on eBay first if I do want something.
Stevie Wonder is one of the biggest success stories. He started at an incredibly young age, and at age 15-16, Motown gave him the ability to write his own music. They weren’t really letting anyone do that. Marvin Gaye, Temptations, any of them. And now, everyone knows and loves Stevie’s music.
@@RedroomStudios either way, it worked out for both (: (And I was more talking about the age thing, relating to the video title)
Marvin Gaye enjoyed many perks the rest of Motown couldn't dream of. He was Married to Barry Gordy's sister which gave him leverage. Also cleverly put down the mic to briefly tour as a drummer with Vice President Smokey Robinson in order to build a bond. It worked. All this before he went rogue and wrote What's Going On record which changed the entire vision and direction of the not only Motown but many artists. One of those whose music was most profoundly effected was Stevie Wonder. WGO was the catalyst that caused Stevie Wonder to change from bubble gum boy/girl pop to no holds barred socially active other worldly funk.
@@mikegrossmanmusic thanks!
Arrrg such a good, well informed video. Makes me more energised to keep creative music after the release of my first album. Thank you Rick....
People will never stop listening to the 60's and 70's classics I think.