PF:KM; Teammate "Tristian" UNMODDED Mystic Theurge Build!
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- HI all! Brothermutant here. This is another in a series of vids showcasing how I might level your various allies. I plan to do vids for most (if not all) of your found teammates, both as a MODDED version as well as the UNMODDED variety so that all can get a feel for what I might do with these deadweights... err, I mean, viable and useful allies against evil. FEAT and Ability picks as well as suggested GEAR are listed in a PINNED comment below.
UNMODDED Tristian Build
STATS: Str 9 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 17 to 22 Cha 16 Neutral Good (matters for some gear)
Class Levels: Human; 3 Ecclesitheurge/7 Empyreal Sorcerer/10 Mystic Theurge
In Order of the video:
LVL 1 (Cleric 1)- Selective Channel & Extra Channels (Cleric)
2 (Cleric 2)
3 (Cleric 3)- Metamagic Extended Spells
4 (Empyreal Sorcerer 1)- +1 WIS (NOTE: Empyreal Sorcerers use their WISDOM to cast spells!); FREE SORCERER FEAT - Spell Focus: Evocation
5 (EMP SORC2)- Spell Focus Conjuration
6 (EMP SORC3)
7 (EMP SORC4)- Greater Spell Focus Evocation
8 (Mystic Theurge1)- +1 WIS
9 (MT2)- Augmented Summoning
10 (MT3)
11 (MT4)- Greater Spell Focus Conjuration
12 (MT5)- +1 WIS
13 (MT6)- Elemental Focus - Fire
14 (MT7)
15 (MT8)- Elemental Focus - Cold
16 (MT9)- +1 WIS
17 (MT10)- Greater Elemental Focus - Cold
18 (EMP SORC5)
19 (EMP SORC6)- Greater Elemental Focus - Fire
20 (EMP SORC7)- +1 WIS; Bloodline FEAT - Superior Summoning
PIE in the SKY gear to look for:
Stuff that increases his PHYSICAL ABILITIES (especially DEX and CON) and MENTAL ATTRIBUTES (especially WISDOM), Best Crossbows (either kind), best ROBES you can find him, any extra gear that gives him immunity to anything.
POTENTIAL SPELL PICKS to decide on for SORCERER spells (pick in whatever order you want):
1) PICK 5: Grease - Shield - Reduce Person - Magic Missile - Snowball - Ray of Enfeeblement - True Strike (FREE: BLESS)
2) PICK 5: Blur - Mirror Image - Glitterdust - Burning Arc - Boneshaker - Web (FREE: RESIST ENERGY)
3) PICK 4: Fireball - Battering Blast - Stinking Cloud - Haste - Slow - Displacement - Summon Monster 3 (FREE: PROTECTION FROM ENERGY)
4) PICK 4: Acid Pit - Dragon's Breath -Animate Dead - Boneshatter - Summon Monster 4 - Stoneskin - Shout - Obsidian Flow - Greater Invis
5) PICK 4: Cloudkill - Cone of Cold - Icy Prison - Shadow Evocation - Hungry Pit - Acidic Spray - Fire Snake - Summon Monster 5
6) PICK 3: Cold Ice Strike - Sirocco - Summon Monster 6 - Acid Fog - Chain Lightning - Chains of Light - Tar Pool
7) PICK 3: Create Undead - Summon Monster 7 - Legendary Proportions - Caustic Eruption - Ki Shout - Firebrand - Umbral Strike
8) PICK 2: Greater Shadow Evocation - Rift of Ruin - Seamantle - Stormbolts - Greater Shout - Greater Angelic Aspect - Summon Monster 8
*SKILL points invested by the end of the build: Knowledge Arcana 19; Lore Nature 3; Lore Religion 19; Perception 19; Persuasion 3
Great build and explanation. Thank you
This build is great, it gave Tristian a very good role in my party.
Following this build, but changing the spell selection order, I use him as a "super buffer" (due to the number of spells), summoner (used as "shields" to protect him) before fights, and healer.
Having Tristian as support (in the middle), Ekundayo (pure ranger) and Octavia (arcane trickster) as damage dealers in the back row of any party is a killer combination.
Not only that, but if you change Octavia for a Sylvan Sorcerer mercenary (or if it's the MC class), it's possible to keep only 2 characters on the front row as melee damage dealers (because they'll be supported with 2 pets + Tristian summons as tanks).
So, this opens a spot to have Jubilost with his debuff grenades/Linzi/Kallike - Kanerah plus a main character with whatever class or role.
I used the following for mine
Valerie: yeah this surprised me too, but I rarely actually using her action to make attacks, mostly she just spams dazzling display (she has 1 level in thug, the rest are all in fighter, will later go into stalwart defender), later I plan to spec her into tripping for Nok-Nok, basically she's a character that is there to support my other characters.
Amiri: take away her stupid sword, give her a glaive, she stands behind Valerie with combat reflexes power attack and outflank
Main character: paladin2/sorcerer3/dragon disciple3 (currently) with a bardiche (I went for a fun build instead of optimal), plan is to take dragon disciple all the way to 10 then put the rest into paladin
Nok-Nok: oh they like breathing? Too bad for them.
Harrim: off-tank, buff, healer
Linzi: buff/ranged attacker, I might honestly replace her with Ekundayo as soon as I can get haste on my main character.... If I get Ekun I might put Tristan in. Instead of harrim since his wolf can off-tank
So I installed the 2 mods, CoTW, and EA. So I've been taking generally the half skill point per level. Big differene here if you respect tristian is the skill points don't match at level 3. You can get there eventually though I think. Somehow with a 25 point buy had extra points which Is tuck into In to try and get the skill points up just a bit (STR 9, DEX, 12, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 17, CHA 16) AT start. I debated hwether having higher CHA would matter at all, but one of these mods the bloodline feets I chose the Heavenly Fire one first, but the second time You could take resistance (which frankly not sure I like or) "Whenever you cast a bloodrager or sorcerer spell that deals damage, you can increase its maximum number of damage dice by an amount equal to your Strength or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher. This otherwise functions as -and does not stack with-the Intensified Spell feat. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every 4 caster levels you have beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at 19th level."
Given I had a +3 for the 16 CHA and no str in this build, that's seems awfully tempting.) I don't know if that's an update to have those choices. I ended up going back and taking the resists since they are always on. and you hve to remember to use the other ability intentionally.
I've watched several build guide videos and this is one of the best ones I've seen. I'm not even sure if it's because the build will be good but it just looks so much fun to play. Really good job with the thorough analysis, as this also taught me a lot about this prestige class, which clearly needs a ton of planning.
The only downside of the build is that it seems it ends up squandering the chosen feats related to channeling. I wonder if a good variant of it might be finishing out in cleric instead of sorcerer. Probably a choice that depends on party composition. That will make more use of his charisma investment too.
Additionally, I think a variant might be dropping a focus on one element such as cold or one spell school and going for the precise shot. He's not great in combat but there are a number of items with useful abilities as the game progresses. As well spells from wands, scrolls or his own casts that this will help.
Oh yeah, you can take him as more of a Ray caster your way. I like the Death from Afar (I think thats what they are called) gloves which would give him a +4 to his Ranged attacks (including the Ray spells). Reason I wasn't too keen on being MORE cleric than Sorc is Cleric spells lend themselves to buffing more. So, if you want to be a buff bot for you or your teammates, Cleric is the way to go. I like my Sorc dmg spells (and they also get some amazing Crowd Control spells too). Everyone plays different.
Sorry or the late response. My internet was broken for like 3 or 4 days and I was not a happy camper. If you want to see a specific build, post below this comment and tell me what you want (race? goals? Mods or unmodded? etc.) Cheers!
Hmm, to be honest I think that Mystic Theurge is a very bad deal. So you get divine and arcane caster progressions ("the best of both worlds") and perhaps I would agree that this is worth loosing level 9 spells in both (although one could argue this). But what kills it IMHO is the delayed spell progression. You get level 3 spells 3 or 4 levels later then you should so the complete midgame you are struggling to keep touch with our teammates and enemies. I think I would prefer your lv 20 cleric build for Tristian focusing on heal, buff and debuff.
Most would, but if you are willing to "suffer" through the slow spots, he can unleash a TON of spells out by the middle of chapter 3 on.
Mystic Theurge is indeed subpar, especially on higher difficulty. It's fine if you play on lower difficulty and like to see Tristan pew pew things, or if you like to see pretty lights for every mook fight en route to the fights that really matter. If you're serious about kicking butt, playing higher difficulties, or playing a no reload run, you're much better off bringing Octavia or having the protagonist as an arcane caster. It's a classic example of quantity over quality being a bad tradeoff; having access to more spells doesn't really make up for the fact you're behind significantly in casting progression and your DCs, effectiveness vs SR, etc etc. all lag behind due to lack of focus. As well, the normal (I realize this game has Quicken rods and such) rules of action economy means you're still stuck with one divine OR one arcane spell per round, not both... and BOTH sides are going to yield inferior results compared to focused builds. A pureclass Tristan paired with a REAL arcane caster (i.e. faster progression and actually viable save DCs) trumps MT (or MT Tristan paired with arcane caster) by a wide mile, there's no comparison.
I'm about to pick up tristian in the story. I might try this out.
1:32:22 I will henceforth always describe Holy Word as a "fuck you from God"
Amazing build as always btw
Love this analyses on the Mystic Theurge (I been wanting to get into Kingmaker but the rough launch me hesitate). I was planning to make this build as my main char. Do you have any recommendations?
If you plan on taking Mystic Theurge as your MAIN character, just make sure you invest in Persuasion & Perception. ANY team leader/ruler needs those two Skills maxed in my book.
Other than that, make sure you have ENOUGH Charisma to unlock that SELECTIVE CHANNEL ability ASAP. It allows you to AoE heal you and your team WITHOUT healing the bad guys too! For more on the build, check out the PINNED comment below (the build in level progression so you can refer back to it when you need it or want to modify it as you see fit). Also, I HIGHLY suggest a DEX based build that allows you to attack at RANGE with a good weapon (crossbows are nice) or your spell attacks. Until you are fully geared out, you are going to be pretty squishy.
@@brothermutant7370 Does race matter in this build? I kinda wanna try Asimar.
@@HazelVandice You would lose ONE feat for doing that. BUT, you could make one that has a +2 to WIS and pretty much any other stat, so that would be pretty sweet.
@@brothermutant7370 last question so you can get rid of me: Is this build viable with wizard, instead? I know you would have 2 casting stats (is that bad?) but you do get MT at level 7. Is it worth it?
@@HazelVandice Depends on what you want it for...Is it to be the best caster you can be? Then split Cleric (or Druid works)/Wizard for the best spell progression. You would (presumably) finish with a Level 5 Cleric/Level 5 Wizard/Level 10 Mystic Theurge which would give you access to level 8 spells from BOTH the Cleric's and Wizard's spell books. It would be really ODD as you would be a INT/WIS based character and then that would mean you would need (BARE MINIMUM) an 18 for both those stats by the end of the build (so you can cast level 8 spells from each spell book). That does NOT leave a lot of room for any physical stats. BUT, you would be able to buff like no one's business AND hit with some really great spells.
You don't include precise and point blank shot for feats with this build? I thought those were pretty much necessary for ranged touch attacks, have I been wasting feats? And what are your thoughts on Spell Specialization? I'm rebuilding Tristian and most of these mystic theurge builds seem to include it.
Sure PBS and Precise Shot are great for Ray spells (Ranged Touch attacks) but I leaned heavy into his casting for this build. Plus he can use a variety of spells to increase his attack bonus, so you can supplement his attacks that way. His DEX and Base Attack Bonus are going to be pretty lame anyway though. If I really wanted to, I should have pointed out that his spells should be more about blasting and healing than anything, and just omit those Ray spells.
As for Spell Specialization, which spell were you thinking of buffing? There is plenty to choose from, but I don't know which Feat I would lose to get it. The Feat picks below center around his dps (Spell Focus Evocation/ Fire/ Cold spells) and his Summons (Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment and Superior Summoning). I figured I would want his DC check to be as good as I could get it so his AoE spells in particular would be more likely to land AND, since his Cleric spell list includes heals and summon monster spells, I wanted his Conjuration spells to be buff too (remember most of his heal spells are conjuration spells that CAN dmg Undead fully with a successful DC check).
Its an odd build to be sure, but he really does a great job being a caster with a TON of spells. If you are wondering why Conjuration and Evocation was such a focus, there are a TON of Evocation spells, and Conjuration makes a strong showing as well. Throw in the fact that his caster levels for each class (13 for Cleric, 17 for Sorcerer) are both going to be subpar, and you know his Spell Penetration will be lame (remember to counter Spell RESISTANCE you need to have your CASTER LEVEL + any Spell PEN you might have + a 1d20 roll equal or exceed the target's Spell Resistance); now you can see why CONJURATION was also a focus (many of those spells have no SPELL RESISTANCE, and who doesn't like flooding the battlefield with more pets?)
@@brothermutant7370 I may be a weirdo on this but I seriously hate flooding the battlefield with summons! They mess with the pacing with turn-based, get in the way, and it's annoying when you get your melee characters all buffed up and then get like one or two turns in because summons did all the fighting. Probably the only scenario I would have a summons-build is in a solo run, and then I would have an undead army lol. I tend to have a melee-focused group and prefer to swap robed casters out for everyone having some magical and melee ability. Tristian is the exception (and Amiri, but she's a mac truck as invulnerable rager); I actually made him into a Dawnflower Dervish (I'm using mods) for a while, but Tristian in melee was just...not right. So then I made him into a gestalt celestial-blooded sorcerer/life oracle, but he almost never gets close enough to enemies to use the class touch abilities and I was really just underwhelmed with oracle in general. So now I'm trying to decide whether to build him as a mystic theurge or a Dawnflower Anchorite. The Anchorite possibly is more thematic but the theurge seems more versatile, idk I'm waffling on it! Have you tried the Anchorite from CotW mod?
There's also a kineticist that uses wisdom (psychokineticist I believe) and I wonder if that might make sense for Tristian to mix things up with a bit.
Also, unrelated question - I wanted to try Witch with Kanerah and noticed that there's a monk feat where you deliver a hex with a punch, have you seen that? Brawler witch! I really have no clue about monks but the idea of a hex knockout punch is incredibly entertaining.
I made Valerie into a Skirnir and it's perfect for her. Bit of a late-bloomer class but very fun and thematic considering she says "I am your shield" like every 5 minutes. The mods add so much I may never finish this game just perpetual respeccing lol. And I haven't even tried archaeologist or investigator or psychic...
Oh and on the question of spell specialization, I got that from another guide for a very similar build, here: www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/post32
With a lot of the arcane feats it's a coin toss for me either way as they're usually not as visibly impactful to me as something like cleave. Like whether my fire spell does a bit more damage or I get extra missiles in my magic missiles, it's unlikely I'll notice either way unless I look at the combat log so I try to follow along with someone who knows whether they actually work and what they synergize with. Probably because I rarely run with pure casters and as a result am a bit lost in the arcane feat trees. Like, metamagic, spell mixing/blending whatever... no clue.
@@aliciaaltair I have NOT tried it. What does the Anchorite do? What subclass is it for, a Cleric? I know that I HATE Kineticists (they feel a lot like warlocks to me). Delivering Hexes with punches sounds sweet. I liked the Bloodrager that has the ability to deliver spells with their touches (they can trip/bull rush/etc and deliver it that way, but I think it didn't work right, for me anyway).
I didn't like Psychic myself, can't remember if I tried Investigator (I think I did, and I thought Inquisitor was better, but not sure), and the Archaeologist is MINE! You can't have it :P
kidding. Seriously though, an Archaeologist with a one level Scaled Fist monk dip is OP as hell for a solo run. Not sure if it could "win" by itself in all scenarios, but it sure would be fun to try.
@@aliciaaltair The one (or two spells) that allow you to really feel the impact of spell specialization could be: Scorching Ray/Magic Missile/Battering Blast/Hellfire Ray. They all get upgrades (more missiles/rays) with certain breaking points. So, say you wanted that SORC side of my build to get all three rays of Hellfire Ray, you would need to be caster level 19 (he is 17 by the end of the build, so with a +2cLvl for that one spell, it would actually allow you to fire all three rays).
Its why I asked as many just put it in a spell and expect it to make the spell way better, and rarely it does.
Would trading 8th level spells for a dip in monk be utterly idiotic?
Depends on what you are going for. If you want that extra survivability (for when you want to SOLO), I say go for the dip. I've routinely said to make any of my builds your own, just make sure to post below it how you changed it up so we can all learn from what you have done.
Also, I have found that level 1-6 spells are MORE than enough to destroy this game SOLO, so if that works for me, then losing level 8 and 9 spells can't be that bad for your playthrough. Hell, you would STILL get a metric ton of spells from both classes AND a bunch of cheap AC besides.
@@brothermutant7370 My main worry then is that since mystic theurge is already a late bloomer, pushing that further with one more level that doesn't progress the spellcasting of EITHER class, so I know it'll hurt, it's just whether or not the extra AC is worth the hurt. Tristian is currently sitting at level 3 in my capital village and I'm pondering my options with him. The other companions were quite a bit easier to land on a build that doesn't ruin their early levels but still gives the benefits of multiclassing.
@@khatack That's always a concern for casters, losing that spell level progression is a biggie. However, if he is getting punched a LOT, then giving him a class dip that adds like +4 or 5 to his AC ALWAYS is a big increase in his survivability. Again, for a teammate, I probably wouldn't dip him like that; LINZI is the only teammie that I ever considered going 1 level of Scaled Fist monk dip so she could off-tank (which she crushes at by the way); for my MAIN character, for someone that might solo from time to time, I would totally go for that 1 level of monk dip. But to each his own.
@@brothermutant7370 Makes sense. Thanks for the insight, I think I'll go without the dip for Tristian.
Isn't Tristian ineligible for Monk because of his alignment?
Why would you EVER pick this build, it's awful, did you played the game or was this just pure theorycrafting?
Ranged touch spells are SHIT for Tristain because of his story perma blind condition, the spells that you actually need you get waaay to late and your damage spells will always be lower than every other character in your party, your dc is horrible, your spell penetration is even worse AND not to mention you don't even get lvl 9 spells.
So don't use it. I like it just fine.