New 6-Jaw Chuck! | How to (re) Machine a Cast Iron Backing Plate
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Today we're installing a new Shars 6-jaw adjustable chuck on the Grizzly G0602 lathe. Shars sent over their six inch six-jaw to support the channel, and we're going to re-machine the backing plate so we can use it on the Grizzly lathe.
Here are links for the chuck and backing plate:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
Shars 6-Jaw Adjustable Chuck (Amazon*): amzn.to/3QGLWJT
Shars 6-Jaw Chuck Backing Plate (Amazon*): amzn.to/3SA0k84
Other tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
Mitutoyo Telescoping Bore Gage Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3vMrzTf
Bondhus Metric Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3eqZzwb
Bondhus SAE Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3h9bJLZ
Shars AXA Quick Change Tool Post Set (eBay*): ebay.us/KXQTcI
Shars CCMT0602 RH turning tool holder (eBay*): ebay.to/2SUS4jL
Shars 1/16x1/2" P-Type HSS Cut-Off Blade (eBay*): ebay.to/2DbgUXt
Kyocera CCMT060204-HQ Cermet Inserts (eBay*): ebay.us/5qfDhe
Shars CCGX 21.52 insert for aluminum (eBay*): ebay.to/2Hcd5Fu
Aventor 8" DPS IP54 Caliper (eBay*): ebay.to/37y1Tg3
Shars 0-6" .0001" micrometer set (eBay*): ebay.to/3sxGRqK
Thread-measuring wires (Amazon*): amzn.to/2xRoDqG
External carbide threading tool: (eBay*): ebay.to/2Fx2zXA
Set of 4 CCMT0602 boring bars (eBay*): ebay.to/2SX3dRd
Thread Pitch Gauge - SAE and Metric (Amazon*): amzn.to/3BOLO6s
Cratex Abrasive Block (Amazon*): amzn.to/3R6NWvK
Astro Pneumatic Air Blower Nozzle (Amazon*): amzn.to/3oB5uE9
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
00:00 Intro
00:43 The chuck
03:30 The spindle nose
03:48 Turning a plug gage
05:14 Threading the plug gage
08:20 Mounting the backing plate for machining
10:04 Boring out the backing plate
12:02 Threading the backing plate
15:10 Counterboring the backing plate
18:38 Machining the other side
20:22 Mounting the chuck
21:41 Testing Set-Tru concentricity adjustment
25:02 Conclusion
Shars 202-5467 6" 6 JAW .0005" ADJUSTABLE UNIVERSAL CHUCK 2 PIECE JAWS
Set-Tru
Adjust-Tru
That... opening "Shars smile" is just... priceless 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Now that the lathe has a DRO, why not give the electronic lead screw a "stop at position" function? There's a good chance your DRO has some kind of serial communication that could be used to get position data.
Exactly what I have been thinking 💯
Also automatically vary the spindle speed control based on the position of the cross slide and cutting speed
Fantastic upgrade James.
That smile at the beginning tells it all.
Some type of dynamic balancing of the chuck would be interesting to watch
I got the silly visual of mounting the chuck to a tire rim and going down to the tire shop to use the wheel balancer. (too much coffee I guess)
He'll probably spin it between centers, and yes it will be fun to watch him do it.
Thank you James. I have been holding off on a 6 jaw for my lathe. But now after I see the quality, I feel like Shars is the way to go!!
I enjoy your channel a lot! Your subtle humor is just right in my opinion 😄 keep the videos going sir 👍🏻
Thanks James, Great to see how you tackled that problem and solved it. Great channel.
That smile at the beginning, when you were talking about Shars... I would almost call it maniacal.
Fantastic job! By weird coincidence I bored and rethreaded a backplate the other day for a new 4 jaw - glad to see I was on the right track :)
While I’m loving you more and more my wife is headed the other direction 🤣 So many great projects to come on my G0602! Thanks again for great content and instructions
Very nice chuck, great feature having the adjustable backplate. That is a bonus. I enjoyed the machining process. Tony
Thanks for sharing this video I've enjoyed all the work you've shown
Looks like a decent unit. Checking for balance can be as simple as clamping the chuck down on a precision shaft between centers.
Cheers
Yeah. I'm planning something like that.
Very interesting video and NICE looking chuck!!
Using a vacuum cleaner can catch those cast iron chips. You might consider making an attachment to use a vacuum to pull chips through the spindle to prevent build up when boring or creating inside threads.
Or to blow dust through the head stock
@@Grosmeo Blow it all over the shop😆
Came to say the same thing. If you have a spare Noga style arm and magbase (The knock-offs are perfectly good for this) you can mount a vacuum nozzle either to catch from the front or, as Tired old mechanic said, at the back and drawing through the spindle bore - the VacuuLathe :D
Great work. Great fit up. Thanks for sharing!
Beautiful chuck. And nice work.
The beauty of a six jaw is you don't have to clamp the work as tight as a normal 3 jaw. At least that's the understanding I have. Nice job.
Oh no. Looks like I'm gonna have to add another chuck to my collection. I also purchased the 5c collet chuck for my PM1127 after watching your video and seeing how well it performed for such an affordable price.
My lathe also has a screw-on chuck with 1 3/4 - 8 thread. The chucks that came with the lathe have a locking tab, that I see your spindle has provision for. To make a long story short, I operated my lathe without the locking tabs (as you're doing in this video). When I shut off the lathe, the drivetrain stopped well before the chuck as it unscrewed itself from the spindle, crashed onto the ways, then the floor, and then through a wall. My machine is standard AC drive. I think the 'ramp' function on your variable speed is the only thing that's saving you.
I use the locks when I have them. There's not a lot of room on this plate, but I'm planning to figure out something.
If your chuck unscrewed, something went wrong.
There are many people with older lathes and they all say that a screwed spindle nose will hold on, even if you cut while running in reverse.
My lathe, for example, I only ever tried 1-2mm cuts in steel in reverse because I'm scared, but it hold on just fine.
@@an2thea514 If you're cutting in reverse with a threaded chuck and no locks, please make sure you keep a camera running. We all want to see it when your luck runs out.
@@Clough42 I don't need to, you can literally try it yourself.
I have access to one last threaded Lathe at work, my threaded Lathe and my Wood Lathes.
As for Wood Lathes, I don't cut in reverse because I don't have reverse, but I have a Brake that I use pretty agressively and nothing happened yet. (For note, my boss brakes from 6000 to about 30 RPS on our Wood Shaper which I don't do and the Spindle doesn't unthread either but that's a different type of machine, so make of that what you will).
My own lathe, well, since it has plain bearings I don't turn over ~300 RPM, but that's whatever. Biggest I do in reverse is cut tapers. 1-1.5mm DoC while fed with hand. Spindle is 2 1/4x5.
As for the work lathe, my senior, the boss' dad has been in this shop since 1962 and that lathe is there since 1968. He is honest, makes sure every chuck is on tight and in his words, there have been no accidents because if that. And you know how much company lathes get abused. When we change chucks, the prybar is longer than me. Spindle is M105x7(or 6, whatever Voest used)
Quinn likes to talk about how the old masters were so smart and such, but don't you think, if old manuals told you the chuck doesn't come off, if older lathe users in the forum say the chuck doesn't come off, that the chuck maybe really doesn't come off.
So satisfying to watch! 😍
I have had the same chuck from Shars for about 1or 2 years, only with a cam lock mounting, very nice chuck and I love it. I'm sure you will also.
Enjoyed…congrats on the tooling addition
Old engineers' expression ... "If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy &/or precision 100% of the time ... Make it adjustable! 🤔😁 Definitely applies to electronics too (my primary field). NICE unit! Great video as always!
looks like a nice chuck ... 6 jaw awesomeness
I have never been *this* early to a video! Good to see you James!
I'm glad you're here. Thanks for watching!
I LOVE THAT CHUCH!!!
Very nice work. I’ve got 6 jaw envy!
Nice, been wanting a 6-jaw myself. Maybe one day!
That smile in the intro had me laughing way too hard!! Love it!
I have two lathes with 1-3/4”-8 threads….challenging sometimes to find what you need. That’s a fantastic workaround, well done
The thing for cast-iron is a shop vacuum. I mount the nozzle near the tool for facing and external and mount it at the left end of the spindle for internal cuts so it sucks through the chuck and spindle.
I thought about pulling through the spindle with a vacuum, but opted not to, just because I didn't want to draw all that junk though, where it will stick in the oil and be there forever. It was a lot easier to just let it fall and then vacuum it up, and wipe everything down as soon as I was done.
I use these 6 jaw chucks often and I made a bunch of aluminum soft jaws for different parts. The soft jaw repeat well for a ±.005 tolerance.
Great video. I have the Shars 10” D1-6 3 jaw zero set Chuck. Very happy with it. Repeatable to .0005 and often times to .0001 - .0002. Very good Chuck. Even got it on sale 20 % off.
Nice. Been wanting one of those.
Thanks, very informative.
Would be very cool to see the balancing of the chuck. Hope you do end up doing it. Not sure how much it would improve the chuck in practice but still cool to see how it would be done.
Nice video, I always enjoy yours. I just got the 8" 6 jaw set true and the D1-4 backing plate. Checking and then removing a 1 inch precision ground dowl repeated exactly with a .0001 indicator. It is not a Bison for sure but it is way less money than I paid for my Bision 6 jaw.
AG60 inserts are partial profile, not full. Full profile inserts have a flat next to the tooth that skims the top of the thread. I don't know why manufacturers put the second point on the partial profile inserts; it's certainly annoying.
On the other hand, I have full profile inserts for every thread I make routinely, so I don't really care all that much. 😁
Thanks! That was my misunderstanding, apparently. I do see some AG60 inserts advertised as "full profile" but they're on dubious sites, like Aliexpress. The ISCAR catalog indicates clearly that AG60 indicates partial profile. (edit: capitalized ISCAR)
What I did when doing a similar job was to simply remove the chuck from the lathe with the work piece still attached, flip it around and test the fit that way. I figured the repeatability of the chuck against the spindle nose was good enough for the girls I go with. And it was. Other than the giant mess of all that cast iron it went great. For my 'practice' I made an aluminum spindle nose protector that I use when I'm using the internal 5C collet. So it was practice AND useful.
This is always an option. However, the 4-jaw chuck, with the backing plate mounted in it is pretty heavy and unwieldy, and I was a little afraid I would knock the plate out of alignment in the process. Having a dummy spindle nose is going to be handy in the future. I should have made one long ago.
I’ve said it before James, if you came to my shop, you’d think you were at home…on that note, I have had that chuck in my cart at Shars for probably a year. I WANT it, just can’t think of a solid reason why I NEED it over my 4 jaw, 6” Shars chuck. Nice job as always!
Same here. It's been on my saved items list forever.
Great video. I found that it's important to use the same screw to tighten with every time. My Toolmex 6 jaw has a 0 mark on one of the chuck screws, so it's easy to make sure you use the same screw every time.
It's easy on this chuck, too, because it has only one pinion.
Thanks for sharing 👍
that smile, epic!!! I felt it, hahahahah, made my day
Thanks for the well filmed and edited interesting video.
I did the similar work adapting a 5# 3 jaw onto a 4# mini lathe. The adapter plate came from LMS and fit perfectly to both the chuck and the head stock, without any cuts! Using Randys knocker when tightening the bolts a run out of 1 thou was achieved. Not bad at all. However, the plate moves all the work some 1" away from the head stock and chatter happens more easily.
Very cool. I was a little worried about stickout, but because of the way the back plate is constructed, it ends up being exactly the same length as the stock 4-jaw.
Now that you have a DRO, you can hook the Z-axis scale to the electronic leadscrew, and make an auto-stop feature for threading to a shoulder.
good job as always. I built a Dynamic balancer out of 8020 and used dynexhobby electronics. Works quite well
That looks really interesting. I ordered one to play with.
You smiled like a kid with a new toy... 😂
I think it's enough... I would like to see the AVID CNC router machining some aluminum 😅
Love your videos James 🙂
I think you did a great job
That smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile at 0:42 😁
Love your videos you are so skillfull.
I develop my skills as I go. What you see on camera is the result of careful planning and forethought. Also the benefit of previous mistakes. :)
I've been lusting after one of those 6 jaw chucks for years, but my tooling budget doesn't line up with the sticker price on that thing of beauty.....🤣🤣
Ha! And I just bought a Bison Set-Tru 5C collet chuck. Thinking about getting their 6 jaw. I didn't want to wait for Precision Mathews to restock their Set-tru's.
Very, very nice.
I am curious about the pros and cons of cold bluing vs. nickel plating for wear and rust resistance. I was thinking about backing plates and tool holders in particular. Of course, it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway, I love your content and the superb production quality of your videos.
Nice! Ciao, Marco.
I recently bought a very similar looking import 6jaw by zentra. Might be from the same factory? definitely take it apart and deburr everythjng and clean out the grinding dust if you have not done so by now ✌️mine was really filthy on the inside.
I really love watching your videos and learn something every time.
+ Nice work, and nice presentation. + Thanks for providing this content
Very impressive day .
What do you think about using a vacuum hose to suck up the abrasive dust while machining cast iron? I don't do cast very often, so my shop vac noise is tolerable.
On exactly one occasion I was paranoid enough to run the shop vac exhaust in the back of the spindle bore as well. I dunno if it helped all that much, but it made me feel like I was doing as much as I could reasonably do to keep the dust out of my collets.
When chucking a part it helps to tighten all the pinions on the chuck to get repeatability. Don't know exactly why that works but it does.
I too was SHOCKED when my metric hex keys did not fit into the mounting hardware on my 10” 6 jaw from Shars.
Drill a pair of holes 1/2" diameter x 1" deep in the outer edge of the backing plate. If you have the chuck off and you still need to unthread the backing plate you'll thank yourself.
The main reason why i made myself a vaccum attachment to the tool holder no more nasty dust.
very nice
You should have a video on TIG welding.
If I have to machine a lot of CI, I use an inverted tool with the lathe in reverse (or with the tool on the back of the part running forwards) so any spray of powder at least goes downwards instead of into my teeth. For fine cuts I use a cheap polished carbide aluminium insert which seems to make less annoying chips in CI/SG, (also brass and bronze) instead of powder. OK, they wear out fast, and inverting the tool means a bit of messing about, but my teeth thank me every time.
I wonder if anyone's done an actual study on cast iron vs steel backplates. Given the spindle is usually high tensile steel, how much will the material difference affect finish on small bench lathes ?
How would running in reverse work with this spindle being threaded? I would be fearful that the chuck/ mounting plate/ work piece would come off the spindle, but I have very little experience with home machining.
@@r2db Lathes with camlock or taper nose and key chuck mounts are fine for use in reverse but those with threaded chuck mounts are generally not. James mentioned that he has a Cunning Plan to handle that problem. Sounds interesting. My old lathe has a D1-4 camlock so it's fine in reverse. Also means I can use a rear toolpost for parting off without inverting the parting tool. Threading in reverse is much less stressful but the gutter groove is mandatory for the thread start. Cutting towards the chuck means you can pull out from the cut and leave a tapered entry. Takes lots of skill and timing unless you have auto-retract. I'm rubbish at getting it timed right so I stick to the easy way, with a gutter and running in reverse. Also need to consider tool rake/relief angles when threading in reverse. All enormous fun though.
Solid tool post should do wonders when you get it on
I plan to try to implement a carriage stop feature in the ELS so that I can set a stop point and, as long as I don't disconnect the lead screw, it will not go past that point towards the chuck. It'll still keep track of the spindle, but won't let the lead screw turn past my stop point. When I then reverse the spindle, the ELS will activate the lead screw when I pass the stop point in reverse, and drag the carriage back (it could be optimised too, to save some revolutions, but that comes later).
Since I live in the metric world but my lathe has an imperial lead screw and while threading I kinda have to keep the half nut engaged all the time anyway, so it wouldn't add any inconvenience for me. On the contrary, as my lathe is set up now, without a brake, I can't thread up to a shoulder or even into a reasonably sized gutter. The electronic stop would fix that.
Still haven't mounted my ELS, time in the shop has been scarce, but I plan to at some point.
I just realized that I can't be the first one to think of that, checked the pull requests on the repo and, as I suspected, someone else already implemented that feature. Perfect!
I have the same chuck on my atlas 10in lathe love it
Work, Looks good!
Heh, when you were first describing the 6-jaw and said you tighten the single pinion I didn't really think much about it and just assumed you meant you only need to tighten one of them. Then, later in the video I did notice you kept rotating the chuck around a lot to tighten the pinion. When you said it having a single pinion was part of the design I went "Oh! There actually *is* only a single pinion!" lol
Yeah, I think this is to improve repeatability. There will always be a little clearance in the fit of the scroll, and this way, the pinion is always pushing it off-center in the same direction.
@@Clough42 A thing that was sort of tickling in my mind was that I thought you were specifically rotating the chuck all the way around so that you could specifically tighten the same pinion for repeatability. Having the single pinion and the 4 adjustment screws are surely intended for repeatability. :)
When you have to remove your way guide cover you can use a shop paper towel (the blue ones in a box) that’s been wetted with way oil so it will stick to the ways and not get picked up by the speed of those jaws whipping by.
Oh, that's a good idea. I've seen magnets used for that, but didn't think about way oil.
Not sure if you tightened the 6 facing bolts on the set true. I got the 10 inch 3 jaw gator set true chuck, and I lightly oiled the contact area where the chuck meets the backing plate so there was no binding and snugged the facing bolts and then spent a good half hour dialing it in and I got dead nuts zero on a starret indicator and I then tightened the facing bolts up and re checked and still dead nuts on 0. I've had perfect repeatability every time. Set true chucks cost more but in the end they are so worth it.
I wonder if I could drill and tap adjustments screws in my non- adjustable 3 jaw chuck never really thought about it I'll look at it when the when this cold front moves thru -3 is to cold
When I setup a new 6-jaw adjustable , I’ll get the body of it to run true first, then see what the factory runout is. You may need to machine the jaws first with ceramic or cbn. Also, if it’s overseas equip. Good idea to disassemble and clean - check torques back plate. Cheers
How do the screws holding the chuck to the backplate affect the adjustment? Do you have to loosen them to let the chuck float? If not, would a dab of moly under the heads (and also maybe between the chuck and backplate) make the adjustment less sticky?
Huh, I didn't know that you and I don't live very far apart. I'll keep that in mind if I do an E-screw update on my old Clausing.
Now you have a self centering Four jaw Chuck now
Nice...
This is a little off topic but I noticed that you use a 2L coke bottle for coolant on you CNC mill. I don’t drink coke, I prefer cranberry juice, so I am using a cranberry juice container for my coolant reservoir. It’s a great idea!
As always, Thanks James. Just an interesting FYI... Adam Booth (Abom79) did a review on a (larger) 6 jaw chuck a while back & he found the repeatability was more consistent when he tweaked all 3 of the scroll pinions with the chuck key when repositioning the workpiece.
This chuck has only one pinion.
@@Clough42 Ahhh, well ignore my comment! :)
Just a random question regarding those chips, would an appropriately placed strong magnet (in a plastic container with a washer on the outside to keep it place) be a viable trick/method to catch some of the chips rather than have them fly everywhere? ( know it wouldn't work for non-ferrous materials... but...?
Nice Job.🇪🇦
James, here's an experiment I've always wanted to do: test repeatability on all three scroll pinions. I've always thought that the inevitable tiny bit of runout on the scroll itself could shove the whole clamp system a few tenths one way or another, depending on which pinion you stick the chuck key into last...
This chuck has only one pinion.
@@Clough42 And you even said that! D'oh! What got me started on this was thinking about repeatability on 3-jaw chucks, actually. I always wondered if you could mark a part's position, remove it and re-chuck it, using the same pinion, and get better centering...
@@d00dEEE Most multi-pinion chucks have one that's marked with an O that's the "master" pinion, which was tightened last when the jaws were ground at the factory. Tighten that one last for best repeatability.
Looks so funny to see such a small 6 jaw, when the only other 6 jaw I've seen before is on Abom's channel...
I used one about this size on Stan Zinkosky's Logan lathe and really enjoyed it. I think his doesn't have removable jaw caps, so it's a little more compact.
My much cheaper chuck was badly out of balance. First I indicated in the O.D. of the chuck. That fixed the out-of-balance, but then I needed to do an internal skim cut on the jaws with an internal stone tool post grinder.
Yeah. This is a possibility. It would be worth dialing it in on the outside face to see how that affects the vibration.
Sweet
Awesome video! on my g0602 there are clamps to help keep the chuck on the spindle nose. did you have enough room to do that with the six-jaw chuck?
It's very tight, and there isn't a shoulder. I plan to design something else that will fit.
Timely, i need to redo 3 steel backplates in cast iron for my south bend.
I have always wanted a good 6 jaw scroll chuck as well. I have thrown too many parts out of the 3 jaw, and stopped using them for any heavier work or cuts as they just don't hold as well. I have never thrown one from a 4 jaw, and 6 would fix the problem that the 3 jaw has.
I usually try to cut the threads running in reverse and upside-down You have to be right on engaging the dial, but there is no risk of crashing the machine.
Great video James!
Question: you were complaining about flexibility due to stick out when boring the counterbore, but it looked like you didn't need as much stickout as you had to get to the bottom of the bore. Couldn't you have adjusted the tool?
For that cut, yes.
22:47 did you retighten the bolt hole pattern bolts before testing for repeatability? Or are you to adjust the 4 adjust tru bolts while the front bolts are holding the chuck to the plate tightly
That intro...thought This Old Tony came for a visit.
To quote Blondihacks "As is tradition"🤣
Is that something else she copies from Joe Pie?😋
can you use a vacuum for dust collection?
Your introduction reminded me of another CZcamsr, Baldihack.
Went looking for the balancing of the new 6 jaw chuck --- could not find ?
Thanks
To avoid the stringy chips try a 2011 aluminum. Metal Supermarkets has a vid called Which Aluminum Grade Should I Use about it.
The expensive precision highly trusted dial indicator says its only running out by half a though so Ill wind it up to 2500 RPM & check it with my mk1 eyeball - yep, that looks ok.
CLASIC James.
Balancing it will be fun.
1 go fully assembled or 3 steps - remove backing plate & balance it.
Balance the chuck.
Assemble & balance the combination?
This will be interesting.
Good luck & thanks.
Not sure I want to try taking material off the chuck itself. Taking it off the backing plate is easier, though it means it'll be a static balance and not a dynamic one. Worth a try to see what we get, though.
@@Clough42 yes. Any form of better balance is usually a good thing.
Its like a rabbithole with no light at the end though.