Predestination VS Free Will? Between Humility & Arogance, Ft. Yusuf Ponders
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2020
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I hope you guys find this episode benificial, make sure to let me know your thoughts below and share 👍
I just Intrigue with the Title, actually I already discuss and comment about this in another Channel as well.
There is 2 type of Destiny (Qada & Qadr) in Islam, One is Random probabilities which is can be change by our will, then the other is Fixed destiny which is cannot be change what so ever by our will.
The simple analogy is like Pascall Triangle ball probabilities.
Each starting point is fixed destiny like Born then the bottom could be Death or another major event like marriage,career,etc, then start all over again from begining to create another Triangle, until final destination which is death.
The Gap or triangle in between the top and the Bottom is our Freewill which is Quantum Probabilities 😎
Btw....This analogy is Mindboggling expensive I mean Exclusive 😜
Pls stay safe. Dnt make videos. Especially calling brothers. U know they have to travel. ☹️ . Pls stay safe ya akhi
Alhamdulillah was great talking to you guys and meeting everyone at iERA. May Allah swt reward you all and preserve you :) insha’Allah we’ll try do some more stuff in the future.
Ameen, need to get on the good old zoom again :D in shaa Allah
EpistemiX yeah man let’s arrange something
Salam Sir Soul Mr Pondering.
Ma Sha Allah
It was wonderful listening to you as always
Hope we'll see you on the rerooted podcast soon
Ameen
Know your limits. 💯
....and have sincerity?
"But they have rejected a thing they could not comprehend with knowledge, while its ultimate end has not appeared to them as yet. Similarly those who passed before them had rejected the truth. So, look how was the fate of the wrongdoers." Qur'an(10:39)
"Those who associate others with Allah in His divinity will now surely say: 'Had Allah willed, neither we nor our forefathers would have associated others with Allah in His divinity, nor would we have declared anything (which Allah did not forbid) as forbidden.' In the same way, those before them continually denied [the truth] until they tasted Our punishment. Say, 'Do you have any sure knowledge that you may produce to us? You follow nothing but whims, and do nothing but make conjectures.' Say, 'Allah has the most conclusive argument. Had it been His Will, He would have easily imposed guidance upon all of you.'" Qur'an(6:148-149)
Masha Allah. Love the way Yusuf explains complex issues in a way that gives us all the ability to comprehend them easily. May Allah reward you for this.
Great content 👍
Human beings have free will because Allah has willed it before creating us. That means our free will is the cause of the will of Allah. Allah wants us to use our free will to worship Him so that we can achieve our ultimate goal i.e a place in paradise. And rightly said in the video that we should not indulge deeply in the matters that are beyond the comprehension of our limited human brains. We should do exactly as prophet (saw) said, "Tie your camel and trust in Allah".
Masha Allah, you got Yusuf to the podcast!!
I haven't even watched the video but I am so excited.
Brilliant stuff, Masha'Allah
MashAllah very insightful video. Very beneficial in regards to having a deeper understanding of predestination and free will. JazakAllah khaiyran!
Finally! Alhamdulilah. I was waiting for this collab since like forever.
been waiting for this collab
Alhumdulillah
MashaAllah, tabarrakAllah! Loved this discussion, jazzakumAllahu Khyran ikhwan
Great show MashaAllah 🕊💞👊🏽
This was a really good episode on the topic
In essence, these two things might seem contradictory from our limited viewpoint but Allah can bring seemingly two contradictory notions into reality as he is all powerful
So in brief let’s have humility and trust Allah that he planned things out but also gave us free will in certain circumstances
Moreover as brother Yusuf said in the beginning this isn’t just a theistic discussion, atheists have a problem between the links of determinism and free will
What’s interesting is Islam predated all these discussion
And I also like to differentiate between a paradox and an empirical/logical contradiction, for example this may seem like a paradox but it’s different then saying A is red but not red
Once again very good episode and may Allah bless you brothers
Ma sha2 Allah, informative, new perspective for me :) May Allah Bless you.
Yusuf Ponders says something which sometimes goes bouncer but then i have Alhamdulilla Imran Bhai to simplify it. Love you both for the sake of Allah
Youshay Siddiqui sorry 😅
*_Faith and belief in Allah is a prerequisite for predestination / free will._*
Love u bro
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته مساء الخير
I think that Qadr is proven in our selves via our history. We can all remember our history to an extent and realise that there is no way we can change the past. Therefore we can confidently say that there is a path pathed out for us; destined for us because we will see ourselves in the further future knowing for sure that our history (our closer future) is destiny.
The only thing is that we don’t know we’re that path leads to...
if we are fully guided, our test in this world is obviously illogical
if we have absolute free will, our test is - unobviously - unfair, here's why:
there are 2 external factors that affects our choices: the first is universal laws that rule matter and energy, they are constant (...), the second is other choices, both one's own past choices and other peoples choices which are variable and unpredictable since they're results of free will, hence the problem: imagine I, a muslim, have 2 atheist friends with the same mindset and past experiences, and I'm inviting them to islam and debating them on multiple occasions (both hear the same arguments from me), after sometime one of them dies, either due to a past choice, a disease caused by alcohol consumption for example, or due to other peoples choices, a car accident by a irresponsible driver, (I limited the examples to the direct causes, but in reality things are way more complex and interconnected than that). after more discussion with my other friend he accepted islam,
now, in the judgement day, wouldn't the first friend be right if he told God "if I lived longer I would've believed just like my other friend, whom if he died when I did, he wouldn't have believed"? the answer is yes, he's right, and this is why absolute free will makes our test in this world unjust, when humans make choice, they don't know, nor do they care about the consequences that their acts will have on other free willing creatures's tests, a rock that you put somewhere randomly can impact the life of someone 1000 miles away and after 1000 years, this is why the intervention of a power able to manage the choices of people in a way that guarantees a fair test is needed..
the islamic belief about this topic is that humans have free choices but their actions are created by God in a way so that they guide us to fair tests where we choose (between good, neutral and bad, and the levels between them) and only have consequences that God allows (for wisdoms that He knows) to ensure a fair test for others too. our life is a chain of alternation between act (guided) and choice (free will), it starts from the first moment of our consciousness (or maybe puberty, or somewhere in between, God knows best) to the last, with a choice, in a planned setting of circumstances (internal and external factors taken in consideration), the choice implies action that drives you to the next fair test, the action can also be reward or trial/punishment, and used to prepare circumstances of others's tests, and so on and so forth, otherwise, you might be born into a practicing muslim family and face no significant trials, or just like the first friend, die suddenly when on your journey from disbelief to belief..., basically absolute free will implies luck, no justice if we're left to the careless universal laws and peoples whims.
I never tried to write about this topic before so I couldn't express what I have on mind well, I think this comment needs more refining and detailing. also, the prophet pbuh said that predestination in a secret of God, and asked us to believe in it, so we won't be able to fully understand it, as it is beyond our capabilities, personally, after pondering for a long time trying to find the link between verses that say we have free will and those that say it is God who guides and misguides or that we only choose when he chooses, and reached this explanation, not only have I got rid of doubts, but my faith also increased, because predestination in islam is a MIRACLE, really, a proof of the absolute wisdom and knowledge of God, and once you understand it, many other concepts in our religion will become clearer to you, like invocation (duaa), feeling God's favors, enduring trials, , the fact that God wrote destinies, lifetimes, sustenance... of everyone before creation, submitting to destiny and not blaming it, adopting means to reach a goal, the fact that no single thing or action is purposeless.... it just requires pondering, and everything will be clearer than before.
short answer to "do humans have free will": yes and no, it's a mix of both, and it SHOULDN'T be anything else.
Pls stay safe. Dnt make any episodes in these times of distress my beloved brothers
Pre recorded :)
@@ImranHussein 😄👍
ماشاء الله
We have the free will and we do determine our end however Allah Subhanahu knows where were going.
What lots of people (even pastors) don't (yet) understand.
God created us according to His own image and likeness. Godly.
Mankind/the first Adam fell. The image of God in man got lost. That's why there is all this predicament on earth (selfishness, greed, lust, wars, sicknesses, death, etc).
We are all born into that mess.
For the fall of man a perfect atoning sacrifice had to be made.... that is what God did in Christ.
With His own once and for all perefect sacrifice, He paid the debt for the fall of man for us, so we can be indwelled by His Spirit again and finally receive the divine life of the ages back, the first Adam let got of in the fall of man. An amazing act of grace and love by our creator.
That is what you see happening in Christ's first disciples. They too healed all and walked in unselfish love.
And yes.... that is still avaible today. The holy blood is in place, the Holy Spirit is here to give us understanding, power and transform us back to origin.
Not to be debated about, but to be embraced and be-come.
So: The Kingdom of God already came. Through Christ, in Spiritform, in those that understand.
Hence the divine healing miracles we experience.
God manifested in Christ to give us back the divine life mankind lost in the fall of Adam.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God.
The image we were created after in Gen 1.
The image we lost in the fall of man.
The image that can be freely restored by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit working IN us.
What a plan. What a solution. What a love. What a God. Jesus is amazing.
It is the ultimate conclusion of the word and plan of God. God came full circle.
He Himself stooped down from glory to restore us back to original created value: Christlikeness. Walking in divine healing power and unselfish love.
Jesus, born of the Spirit of God, filled with the spirit of God. The "Son" of God, the incarnated word, God in the flesh.
For three years He healed all, raised the dead, casted out demons, controlled nature, spoke pure divine truth.
He said:
"Follow Me. If you see Me, you see the Father. The Father and I are one. The glory I have IN My Father, I give to you. It pleases the Father to give you His Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature. I will send Holy Spirit, the same as Me, He will be IN you, guide you into truth and give you explosive power. The same miracles i do, you will do too, because you will understand that the Father is IN Me and I am IN you. Freely I give you My Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, freely I give, freely share" Etc, etc, etc.
I have experienced thousands of beautifull healing miracles through the power of Holy Spirit IN me already. Broken bones, cancers, covid, all kinds of infirmities healed in seconds. Demons manifesting and casted out by a simple "get out, in Jesus name".
Jesus. De name above all names. In Him all power and wisdom is sourced and.... He calls us one with Him. God in man and man in God again. C'mon Jesus!!
So.... again: God stooped down IN Christ to restore us back to Gen 1:27 were He said: "Let us make man according to our image and likeness and let them have authority.....": walk as Christ.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after and being restored to by His atoning blood for the fall of man and indwelling Holy Spirit.
You are free to receive this original divine life of the ages by Holy Spirit of Christ/God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. Read the Gospel of John and fall in love with your creator.
You are not made for the fall of man and its effects, but for the image/glory of God and to walk like Christ. Holy Spirit is the guide and transforming power that will get you there. Amazing grace.
A big leap in faith can be made when we start realizing we are already IN Christ, IN the last Adam.
Free from the fall! Loved! Growing into awareness of our new (yet old) godly identity. Changing by Holy Spirit. The most fullfilled life ever.
Paul healed all on Malta. He understood and wrote:
"As in the first Adam ALL died (lost the divine nature), so also ALL were made alive IN Christ to walk in Zoë (= divine life) again".
"IN Christ (the last Adam) we are co-cruisified (dead to the fall and its effects), co-raised (justified/made righteousness, holy, blameless, above reproach), co-seated (one with Him)"
"The fullness of deity dwells in Christ and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM, who is the head of every principality and power".
So.... thank you Jesus! Thank you for redeeming me from the fall of man. Thank you for your Holy Spirit that makes this new (yet old) divine life come alive in me. You are amazing!
In the shadow of Peter the sick healed... He understood too and wrote:
"By Gods power (Holy Spirit) and knowing Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature and have escaped the fall of man".
The divine life of the ages has been returned to us by Jesus once and for all perfect atoning sacrifice for the debt of the fall of man and His indwelling Holy Spirit in us. Jesus/God is amazing!!!
Ask Him to give you revelation and change you to the way it was before the fall of man: Christlikeness.
He will do so. For it is written: "the Spirit brings forth after His own kind".
"I have come to give you Zoë (divine life) in abundance...."
Imho life is just like both determined and yet you have free choice for some extent..we only have limited choices yet we cant extend our limit as example we need to breath, eating,sleeping etc we are very different than angels...we cant choose to be an angel for example...we only can choose to do something at some extent what is provided by Allah
Daily Reminder: Try to supplicate these duas every single day habitually
1. Dua That Guarantees You Forgiveness (Sahih Al-Bukhari) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: "Whoever gets up at night and says:
La ilaha 'illa Allaahu, wahdahu la shareeka lahul mulku, wa lahul hamdu, wa huwa ala kulli shayin qadeer. Subhana allaahi, wal hamdu lillaahi, wa la illaaha ila Allaah, wa Allaahu akbar, waLa hawla wa la quwwata illa billaah.
There is none worthy of worship in truth except Allah Alone, He has no partners, He has the Dominion and for Him is all praise, and He is capable of all things, praise is for Him, and Far is Allah from imperfection, and There is none worthy of worship in truth except Allah, and Allah is the Greatest, there is no capability nor is there any power except with Allah. "Then he says:
Allaahumma aghfirlee. O Allah forgive me! Or he supplicates and his supplication is answered, and if he makes Wudhu and prays, then his prayer is accepted.
2. Dua That Guarantees You Jannah (Sahih Al-Jami, An-Nasa'i, Ibn Hibban) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: "Whoever recites Ayatul Kursi, verse 255 from chapter number 2, Surat Al Baqarah after every obligatory prayer, then nothing is stopping him or her from entering Jannah, except one thing: Death."
3. Dua That Wipe Away Sins (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Muslim, At-Tirmidhi) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: "Whoever says: Subhana allaahi, wa bihamdih How far from imperfections Allah is, and I praise Him. "a hundred times during the day, his sins are wiped away, even if they are like the foam of the sea."
4. Phrases That Are Heavier On The Scales Than An Entire Morning Of Recitation (Sahih Muslim) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: "I recited four words three times after I had left you. If these are to be weighed against all you have recited since morning, these will be heavier." These are:
Subhan-Allahi wa bihamdihi, 'adada khalqihi, wa rida nafsihi, wa zinatah 'arshihi, wa midada kalimatihi.
Allah is free from imperfection and I begin with His praise, as many times as the number of His creatures, in accordance with His Good Pleasure, equal to the weight of His Throne and equal to the ink that may be used in recording the words (for His Praise).
5. Dua To Stay On The Right Path (Sahih Muslim)
Ya musarrifa-l quloobi sarrif qalbi ala ta’atik.
O, Allah! The One Who turns the hearts, turn my heart towards Your obedience.
6. Dua To Be Save From Totrments Of Grave
Allahumma inni wa a'udhu bika min adhabil qabri
O, Allah! Saves us from the torments of the grave.
7. Dua For The Best In The Dunya And Hereafter
Rabbana atina fid-dunya hasanatan, wa fil'akhirati hasanatan, waqina 'adhaban-nar.
O, Allah! Our Lord give us all the good of this world, and the good of the hereafter, and Save us from the punishment of the Fire.
8. Dua To Help Pay Off Your Debts (Sahih At-Tirmidhi) Allahum-makfinee bi halaalika 'an haraamika wa aghninee bifadhlika 'amman siwaaka O, Allah!
Suffice me with what You have allowed instead of what You have forbidden, and make me independent of all others besides You.
9. Dua Of The Treasures Of Paradise (Sahih Al-Bukhari, At-Tirmidhi) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said:
"Shall I not tell you of a word which is one of the treasures of Paradise?"
La hawla wa la quwaata illa billah
There is no power and no strength except with Allah.
10. Dua To Literally Boost Your Energy Before you sleep recite:
Subhana allaah 33x, Alhamdulilah 33x, Allahu akbar 34x
11. Dua That Protects You From All Evil, Magic And Affliction (Sahih Ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi) Bismillaahil-lathee laa yadhurru ma'as-mihi shay'un fil-'ardhi wa laa fis-samaa'i wa Huwas-Samee'ul-'Aleem.
In the Name of Allah, Who with His Name nothing can cause harm in the earth nor in the heavens, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
12. Dua To Get Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) Help in Yawm Al Qiyamah (Sahih Al-Bukhari) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: "Whoever says the following, after hearing the call of adhan, the call of prayer I will intercede for them yawm al qiyamah."
Allaahumma Rabba haathihid-da 'watit-taammati wassalaatil-qaa'imatah, Aati Muhammadanil-waseelata walfadheelah, Wab 'ath-hu maqaamam-mahmoodanil-lathee wa'adtah.
O, Allah! the Lord of this perfect call, and the lord of the prayer that is about to be established, grant Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) al waseela, Resurrect him with that status, that is so praise worthy, which you have already promised.
13. Dua Forgiveness All Believers
Allahumma ighfir lil muslimeena wal-muslimaat, wal-mu'mineena wal-mu'minaat, al-ahyaa'i minhom wal-amwat.
O, Allah! forgive the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and the believing women, the alive from them and the dead.
14. Benefits Reciting Surah Ikhlas - Reciting 3 times a day is equivalent to reciting the whole Qur'an. - Reciting 10 times a day and Allah will build for him a house in paradise.
15. Sayyidul Istighfar (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Al-Jami, At-Tirmidhi) Prophet Muhammad SAW (PBUH) said: If somebody recites this invocation (given below) during the day, and if he should die then, he will be from the people of Jannah. And if he recites it in the night, and if he should die on the same day, he will be from the people of Jannah.”
Allahuma anta Rabbi la ilaha illa anta, Khalaqtani wa ana 'Abduka, wa ana 'ala 'ahdika wa wa 'dika mastata 'tu, A 'udhu bika min Sharri ma sana'tu, abu'u Laka bini'matika'alaiya, wa abu'u laka bidhanbi faghfir lee fa innahu la yaghfiru adhdhunuba illa anta.
O, Allah! You are my Lord! None has the right to be worshipped but You. You created me and I am Your slave, and I am faithful to my convenant and my promise as much as I can. I seek refuge with You from all the evil I have done. I acknowledge before You all the blessings You have bestowed upon me, and I confess to You all my sins. So I entreat You to forgive my sins, for nobody can forgive sins except You.
16. Dua For Protection From Shirk Allahumma inni a`udhu bika an ushrika bika wa ana a`lamu wa astaghfiruka lima la a`lamu O, Allah! I seek refuge in You from knowingly associating partners with You, and I seek your forgiveness for that which I do not know
😊i love you both🌲🌳🌷🌺🌸💐🌳🌳
Yes, Humans experience the world from a different perspective than god. So it appears that we have free will to us. But not to god. That stand point doesn't change the fact that in the eyes of god, we don't have free will, so sin is redundant.
1st!
❤
Can you suggest me a book on Philosophy of Science other than Devine reality?
Introduction to the philosophy of science by oxford press
Yes!
“Very short introduction: philosophy of science”
It says many times in the Bible that God predestines everything. "God's plan" contradicts the idea that we have free will.
Asalamu Alaikum brothers, I found the triple point very interesting.
Is it that the water is freezing and boiling literally at the same time or that it fluctuates between a frozen and boiling state very frequently and regularly?
JazakAllah Khair
Walaikum salaam.
The water as a whole, and as we watch it, boils and freezes simultaneously, on the micro scale certain parts fluctuate from one state to the other. My point was more about our experience of such things and how without knowledge we are led to claim such things are contradictions despite them not being. So the claim here wasn’t that they are occurring simultaneously, but that we experience it as such ( phenomenologically ).
Wa iyak.
@@YusufPonders JazakAllah Khair brother, I understand. May Allah reward and increase you in the good work that you are doing. Ameen
I like to give the example of light being particle and wave at the same time.
Those who look at science as the be all and end all in terms of determining the truth.... Check out the experiment "quantum eraser delayed choice experiment"... There's scientific discussion about retro causality and consciousness.
we need watts app group please
respected sir
I'll Olga e a think about that :) sounds like a good idea
Asalamualikum brothers.
So can the Christian with this argumentation not also use this to argue for the divinity of Jesus? There is solely a tention and not a contradiction concerning the Trinity?
I believe it was Imam Ali RadhiAllahu Anhu who when asked this question told the questioner to lift one of his legs. When he did he asked him to lift his other leg and not out the other down.
So he said it's both.
Predestination and free will go together.
How?
Allah a'alam.
If you take a materialist view of this problem. We don't need to throw our hands up and say, we just don't understand.
If we look at neuroscience, we can explain and understand this issue. It seems as if we do need to stop thinking and submit to accept religion. I don't see how anyone can support this position.
Assalamualaikum Brothers, as Muslims, how do we use the Quran or Authentic Hadith to logically answer this question? : if Allaah is most loving, Al Wadood, and free of any need while everything needs Him, As-Shomad, why didn't He just create jins and humans like the angels, without freewill, unable of disobedience against Allaah, no test, nothing for jins and humans to prove among themselves wether they deserve heaven or hell or wether they can be better than angels or worse than animals, and put everything in heaven? barakAllaahu fiikum, JazakAllaahu khoir.
I don't believe in free will but can't say that interpretation has affected me that much, just alters how I view concepts like the justice system and crime. Even if people don't have free will there'd still be valid reasons for, say, isolating criminals. I wish more people would entertain that free will doesn't exist because it makes sense when you think about how things like wealthy versus poor, lucky versus unlucky, etc. exist when you can find the factors that influence these things, which is generally to do with luck or an abundance of resources and convenient social connections as opposed to people being inferior, ungrateful, or whatever blame people who believe in free will will put onto others. I think the world could be a lot less cruel if we acknowledged luck as opposed to deciding to point blame and shame people because we assume they could always be successful if they "just tried hard enough." We need to acknowledge that there are factors beyond our control, I believe, to become more humane societies.
marvellous guys, I really love your talks ... its been a while since i was teenager, I've been in lvoe with philosophy, and tried all that process to prove Allah, even frrom an atheistic point of view if I may say ........ only one think i just didnt understand .... youy're doing this from a while ago with Hamza Tzortzis and all ...... I dont wanna hurt anyone, but didnt any salafi guy came to you an treated you as deviants, because you tell things like "ashari's, because you seem to believe Allah has to be infinite as I do, and this for all of the reasons of the world, just to mention one: because for example if not, than he becomes Astaghfirullah subject to space limitation, than he is not akbar (geater than everything) as some anthropomorphists view him (as far as I know, i dont know exactly their philosophy, because if something has limbs, than it can be limited by the edges of these limbs ) ....and go on to conclude he also can be everywhere .... anyway you know where Im going ...... we find ourselves a little bit in Ashari shoes ..... even if in reality I m more than sure that all of these philosophical thoughts are simply guesses, and no one has the answer until allah subhanahu , if he wants to, will tell us at the end .... as long as we all believe he is one, and above everyhing else ... anyway , if you have any thoughts, wa Salam
Allah swt created things in pairs. There is the Tablet upon which all things are determined and then there is the dua of the believer which changes that. Think about it. Does this life make sense if we remove the idea of free will completely? Remove determinism completely? Neither option makes sense of what we experience.
Its a tug of war between me and my Master. I pull when i percieve free will and He pulls, well, all the time. I know Who is going to win alhamdulilla. A Jewish friend said to me once "man makes a plan and God laughs".
At the end of the day these are things only Allah knows
@@ImranHussein Indeed brother that is true. When the angels said what they did about Adam as they said it by their own volition. Then they submitted because of their trust in their Master. All prophets' lives have an underlying theme of trusting Allah swt. How strange is the modern man who doesn't trust Allah swt? In what do we trust? Don't people know that trust is gained only when trust is given?
I think this is the reason why God created the universe and humanity in the first place.
He created it to experiment.
As God the creator of logic he can bend logic and created a contradiction which is free will and determination.
God knows everything to ever occur past, present and future because he's determined it, but what if he created a contradiction to it which is impossibility?
I'm thinking he knows all the probabilities to every outcome that might occur except every now and then the unpredictable happens in a realm of infinite possibilities and that's the experiment.
Why else would got create this world of he's getting nothing out of it since he doesn't hid creation anyways?
Hopefully I was understandable and I'd like your response if you find this reasonable/rational theory.
Mohammed Hijab said that even if you reject Islam due to this problem, the problem will still exist. But problem solved if you accept that there's no free will, especially when you directly experience it through deep meditation for instance. So that it will become self-evident that free will is an illusion.
Kirana Aisyah no that problem isn’t solved, because you still have to make assumptions in order to come to that conclusion. And you say you’ve experienced this, but then I’ve experienced the truth of free will (through deep meditation), that is, we are responsible beings, and must decide how we wish to be. How do we determine who is right? Simply claiming one has experienced it is not enough to establish that as the truth. After all, it’s possible that your experience that free will doesn’t exist is an illusion.
@@YusufPonders Pondering Soul Well I said that because we also don't have any evidence of free will apart from our experience and intuition. Mohammed Hijab also said this I believe when talking to the ex Muslim. And the ex Muslim guy also brought up this point that in Buddhism, it's actually possible to directly experience the illusion of the sense of self and free will disappeared. But he hadn't experienced it himself so Hijab quickly dismissed it.
And your point about experiencing this illusion as another illusion is absurd. By saying free will is an illusion just means that it's not what we think it is. Just like the optical illusion for example, when you truly pay attention, the illusion disappears. So it doesn't make sense to say the disappearance of an illusion is another illusion. Because when we actually look for it, the illusion disappears.
And in the case of one particular optical illusion, our eyes see two objects having a different length, but we can actually measure that they actually have the same length. Even though our eyes can't see that. So meditation in some sense is like that.
And then you said "I've experienced the truth of free will through deep meditation". Well let's see if you would still say that after you go on a silent retreat and meditate properly.
Just want to add. So basically meditation is a tool discover the nature of subjective experience. But it doesn't mean that everyone can just claim anything. Because you could make an objective claim about subjective experience.
Given the logic put forward, are Muslim apologists in the wrong for arguing that claims in trinitarian Christianity that God can become a man and exist as one being in three are contradictory, make no sense and proves it to be false. Should they instead be saying that perhaps it is merely a tension and we human beings must be humble and accept that maybe it only makes no sense from a limited human perspective?
Should the excuse of ‘it only makes no sense from our limited human perspective and should only really be called a tension’ be applied to Hinduism, Mormonism, Branch Davidianism and even atheism.
For Muslim apologists; when a religion contains a blatant contradiction, it is because it is false, with the sole exemption of their own religion.
Why not go a bit further and resort to reasoning like this; let’s be humble about this, what do we know about magic, maybe the Emperor IS wearing mighty fine clothes.
Another problem with the claim that ‘it is only the faulty reasoning of humans that prohibits them from grasping what appears to be a dire contradiction’ is; who gave humans this faulty reasoning?
The approach given in this video is to take for granted that there isn’t a flawed mortal man behind the curtain. How impressed are people on the Dawah scene when believers from other religions are this charitable to their own competing beliefs.
Yusuf's point about boiling and freezing would be better if it was instead boiling and not boiling, or freezing and not freezing.
On second glance, the claim is much more far fetched than merely ‘God has predestined everything and people also have free will’, given that when people have been properly introduced to Islam and find the claim that God has preordained everything and we have free will a bit too much to swallow, they will roast in hell forever.
Roasting people in hell forever because their God given faulty reasoning made the religion sound absurdly contradictory (and were preordained to reject the religion anyway) sounds an awful lot like burning people with Down’s Syndrome to death for not accepting claims about Special Relativity.
Two perfectly reasonable questions, though audacious to a believer is this; if you were God, would you force people to not believe in you (as the Koran claims God does) and burn them in hell forever for not believing in you? If you were God would you create beings with limited understanding that makes two important aspects look for all the world like an utter contradiction and burn them forever if this makes them conclude your religion is not true (while claiming to be the most merciful of course)?
Its not that no one would do this if they were God, its that only psychopaths would act this way.
Parents create their children and unlike an omnipotent God go to great trouble to do so. Despite this, with the exception of a few psychopaths, they don’t demand their worship, or punish them with anguish beyond reckoning if they don’t.
The immensely strong positive correlation between what God supposedly does to those who don't revere him and what the nastiest of nastiest of humans do is good reason to believe that the Qur'an is not the product of a superior being, but falsely attributed to a shabby imitation of one.
There is a difference of something beyond comprehension and something against reasoning and logic..
Secondly, everything we have is given by God consiousness, parents, and intellect etc.. So, there is purpose of life..
Assigned by God to us..
Now, God is merciful but at the same time the most just..
So, people who follow and don't follow can't be equal...
So, based on the all human beings justice will be done....
There is a criteria..
Ie you can't question God for not being merciful when you don't accept your creator.. Accepting he is merciful is secondary....
Salaam but no distancing and on top of that you're shaking hands?
Very irresponsible!
This was recorded a while back :)
@@ImranHussein sorry for jumping the gun akhi. I should have made an excuse for you. May Allah guide me towards better future conduct.
yousaf sounds sad.
blasty zalmey :D :
This was the day before my friends memorial. He passed away, so maybe that had effected my mood and has shown on this video.
@@YusufPonders yeah i connected the dots
May Allah make it easy for u and his family
So the theist conclusion is "We know we are limited, we don't know but we submit without questioning to unprovable claims even if they contradict modern knowledge!"
The atheist conclusion is "We know we are limited, we know that we don't know, but we won't submit to unproveable claims!"
Therefore not theist should any longer laugh about the "We don't know"-answer of atheists or be embarrased, because theist don't know either.
Atheist answer is, theistic answer is possible but i dont like theism so its wrong and i don't know.
@AH03 Even if you believe to be some sort of divinely preprogrammed robot you still don't know.
Nope the atheist conclusion is "We know everything because of sciences, we don't have any limits and if we do it's because of the limits in our technology but no problem we will fix it in the future"
Assalamualaikum Brothers, as Muslims, how do we use the Quran or Authentic Hadith to logically answer this question? : if Allaah is most loving, Al Wadood, and free of any need while everything needs Him, As-Shomad, why didn't He just create jins and humans like the angels, without freewill, unable of disobedience against Allaah, no test, nothing for jins and humans to prove among themselves wether they deserve heaven or hell or wether they can be better than angels or worse than animals, and put everything in heaven? barakAllaahu fiikum, JazakAllaahu khoir.