Corrosion Risk on Z790 Formula? And the End of ASUS x EKWB Coop
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
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Outro:
Dylan Sitts feat. HDBeenDope - For The Record (Dylan Sitts Remix)
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:50 Hetzner ( Commercial)
1:33 Problems with the ROG Maximus Z690 Formula
3:08 ROG Maximus Z790 Formula
5:10 The voltage converter cooler
6:04 Material analysis of the contact surface
7:14 Material analysis of the cooler surface
8:26 Material analysis fins
8:42 Material analysis of the cover
10:00 Summary/conclusion
11:52 Outro - Věda a technologie
It's a good thing Asus fixed their mistake, hopefully they'll do the same with the price. $800 for this is too expensive, at this price range they should at least provide a full copper VRM waterblock to justify the price. The product is lame but the video is awesome, really good analysis.
Thanks der8auer
MB prices in general have gotten ridiculous. Their probably be a class-action in 5yrs from now like the RAM price fixing scandal
@@Mack_Dingo They can only sell overpriced products if people are willing to pay those prices.
@@Mack_Dingo the problem with that is, that there are still budget friendly options around. so price fixing will be hard to prove. These kinds of boards are only "vote with wallet" fixable.
Yes mobo prices has only gone 1 way and thats up.. and at the same time the features has gone down... Asus isent alone in doing this.. sadly
If motherboard is more expensive than the best CPU for that motherboard, that is just ridiculous.
Man, you must be the mad scientist? Very interesting approach, and good feedback to the manufacturers. In the end it will only make the products better.
The best IT journalism available today.
No drama, no bashing, facts.
Really cool video. Would love to see more engineering themed videos like this :)
This type of video is so helpful! objective data with evidence! thank you for taking the time to film in English!
I very nearly purchased one of the z690 formula 😮💨 but went for the ASU’s gaming-e instead, which is a fantastic board! Great informative video as per usual keep up the absolute quality content 👍 💪
ASUS cutting corners, I’m not surprised. Managed to shave 10C on PCH of a B650F-E simply replacing their poor thermalpad. Same with NVME and the TUF 4080. MSI uses a much better thermalpad to start with.
Even Asus Customer Service can't give me size thermalpad I need for X570 Formula. After so long they give me the size but not telling me what size for what place... So useless...
Their Strix 30 series were also pretty bad. Thermal paste dries up within a year and the pads gets flaky soon after.
@@hasyidanparamanandacan't you just measure it? I understand that Asus should be able to give you that information, but after so long I'd just get out my calipers, or even just a tape measure should do.
Stop buying ASUS then. They are cutting corners because they are sponsoring most of the Tech CZcamsrs.
@@hayleyxyz I want to buy it before I taking apart My PC, Why? So I can put my PC again and back to use it faster then waiting week or more because waiting for delivery.
Way too cool. I'd look forward to going to work everyday if this kind of investigation was my job. Brilliant stuff Roman ... thank you once again!
Great video 👍👍 I am really geeked out over how awesome the lazer machine is 🙌👍
Absolutely amazing video! I was considering this board and so this video was perfect!
Thank you for testing this! Good to know for sure the composition of the VRM block. I had the z690 formula, and I was able to get the VRM block replaced after waiting on ASUS for 4 months (Their CS is a nightmare). I had stability issues with my 13900k and Corsair Dominator Platinum 5600 DDR5 though, and got the z790 Formula instead, which is rock solid now and running a 14900k and Corsair Dominator Titanium 6000 DDR5. I didn't pay a dime for any of these part upgrades btw, they were all changed out for upgraded parts under warranty because of stability issues that couldn't be pinpointed via troubleshooting. The board is pricey, but I attribute it to the white tax. There really isn't a better white board right now with the same features for Intel z790, or even z690. I certainly don't need to add the VRM block to my WC loop, but I'm going to because this is my mid-life crisis Convertible Corvette - just in the form of a PC instead.
I just got my replacement and they were short on stock. Hoping stock was low due them using the same block on the z790 board
Very informative video! Z790 Formula is in my shopping list already after I saw it how it looks.
exactly like z690 formula but with slightly fixed vrm waterblock.
Top content. I don't shop Asus or Intel myself, but this is reassuring for those that have bought this board already. That it isn't an EK block and "cheaps out" to boot would be more reason to hesitate buying at the price the Formula carries.
The previous gen was EK and it was pure aluminium. EK is pure garbage.
@@BleepBlop-rh9lm EK isn't "pure garbage". Asus just took a license on their name and had some odm like coolermaster build the heatsink and slapped a EK sticker on it.
@@BleepBlop-rh9lm HE just said in the video that Aluminium part was from ASUS? EK only provided the Monoblock :D
Are we even watching the same video :)
@@NivalisJKK It doesn't matter. It says EK, they had a chance to control the product and confirm. It's EK.
@@Xfade81 Why EK is not suing them then?
Awesome str8-fwd analysis of Asus' clumsy Z690 fiasco and recovery. Valuable content!
This was a nerdy delight. Thanks!
That equipment for material analysis is cool af, I am impressed.
@der8auer EN Hey Roman. I think that the 14th Gen TG Frame is completely broken on ASUS z790 boards. Completely destroys memory stability on the encore. Others have reported the same thing. Is there any way you can check on this and maybe see if there's a solution to it? I'm past my return date for Amazon.
Damn man you have the coolest tools to play with. Please tell us what machine that was you used. Maybe take a tour of the company that makes it. When I was 19. I worked at a electroplating plant in Bristol, Ct. USA. I learned so much metallurgy that summer before going off to college. I got to use a XRF (X-ray Fluorescence) analyzer to determine what the metal we had to plate was made of and what the quality was before sticking them in the pot. Not to spec metals didn't plate well and was an expensive waste. All raw parts were checked before being put on the line. Sometimes the owner rejected whole batches! (he was pissed) I went to work in nuclear power plants a couple of years later. That experience started my 1st career. Lab tools, machine tools, all that are big boy toys to me. I love working with that level of tech. Thank you for sharing this info. HEY maybe you can teach Mercedes Benz a few lessons and get them to cut their losses in China.. Export your products there IF THEY HAVE THE MONEY. Otherwise the average Chinese person can't afford German Quality. They certainly don't make it. That's why that previous version of that MB corroded, MADE IN CHINA. They cut corners or outright lied about the material. Asus did NOT do due diligence in quality control. They kept the extra money to would cost for themselves. That's a high priced cheaply made product. Really the price should be 300 euros less in my book. How much does the B.O.D need to live? The average Taiwanese gets paid $4/hour working the line. Common man how are people supposed to afford Asus products now. I've been their customer since 1998. If corporations don't pay a living wage none of us can afford their products. I think you know that yourself. Love your work and your products.
You have all the fun tools :D
This is the same block as the replacements sent out for the z690 version or if you sent it in.
what were you using for elemental analysis?
Thanks for the video. You mentioned you tried the 8000 RAM but it didn't work, and wasn't on the ASUS QVL. I checked the ASUS site and it does show 8000 if paired with Intel 14th gen. Is their site wrong? And can you let us know which RAM you ended up using? Thanks again.
this content really justifies everything and the review is good ...good job bruh
outragiously cool analysis - subed :)
What is situation with x570 formula and its block??
thid you hear anything about a waterblock thad fits the vrm and the cpu so thad you have 2 ports ?
I think I will wait for a solution from EK, we all know it's always trustworthy. I just keep aluminum far away from my loops. Even they are nickel plated. It's just ridiculous from Asus, not to stick with copper and nickel.
Look on the bright side! Your motherboard is 40cents cheaper!
z690 formula was EK and it was garbage. WTF are you smoking?
Especially for the price
Great content! Could you please do an investigative piece on the ek velocity2 direct die kit aswell? I have spent way too much time and money trying to get it to work but having the same problems as everyone else, it's impossible to get it to mount properly. Right now I'm contemplating just getting the iceman instead but the velocity2 looks so beautiful and I'd have to redo the hardlines aswell so I'd much rather have it on there. :/
I'm using the iceman and just got the almost identical barrow block, super easy install and great temps. I do like the look of the EK block but I didn't want to spend 3x as much once I found out the Ek wasn't as good. Good luck to you.
Jeepers I have the Z690 board registered with Asus but have never been notified about a recall, can I just get the new piece to replace the fake EK waterblock?
The heatsink is Al with a Cu plated flash layer then the Ni plated top layer. That is the usual plating process sequence. Decorative parts would then be Cr plated. If you polish the cut/filed section the layers would be clear and you would spectroscope the layers in the section.
Will this motherboard support non-k overclocking like old z690 one?
I’ve never had a motherboard or GPU other than from ASUS in my systems, but the last few years have shown that it’ll be a long time before I buy another ASUS product.
I remember when i got into pc's in the 90's, ASUS had a good reputation. I've owned good ASUS products in the early 2000s. Never had issues with them. But it seems like they're very sloppy \ negligent these days
@@Boogie_the_cat I started building in the mid 2000s; last purchase was an x370 and gtx1070; and will be sticking with that system for a while still the way hardware has been going.
I wonder if the cover is a polyimide or a coated sintered metal?
I was thinking of getting this but its so damn expensive. I used to have the Z690 formula until the whole mobo broke and had to return it. The ram slots are also too close to the socket and i couldnt fit my AIO wires trough there without them pushing on the ram.
I have Z690 Formula but haven't noticed any corrosion after 2.5 years. I have changed the liquid recently and it was clean. Is there a way to tell without dissasembling it?
Do all the units corrode?
When I first heard of the corrosions on these motherboards I concated ASUS and they told me I need a proof of corrosion to have a replacement.
Where can you even get a VRM heat sink?
Asus holds itself as a premium producer of premium products but seems to have started the slide down from previous high position and good brand name by attempting to reduce production costs to increase profit margin, a very slippery slope....
Matrix with copper heatsink and factory LM
I have the z690 formula, contacted ASU’s and was promised to be sent a new vrm block. This was in March and now in December I still don’t have the replacement block.
Wow, you applied materials science to conduct an inspiring review.
I still use Maximus V Formula. It is a water and air cooler. I have a heat sensor stuck in between the fins. Usually reads the same with the CPU temperature. On idle.
I had the z690 formula and mine was all corroded inside the vrm block as well. Not related but I also had tons of stability issues with that board, I was not happy with it, loved the look though.
I had stability issues with the z690 formula and corsair dominator 5600 RAM, after talking with tech support at Corsair (who was awesome btw, upgraded my dominator platinum to the new titanium even though the issue was the CPU) they told me the z690 chipset is the cause of the stability issues with DDR5, especially trying to OC it. the z790 does a much better job.
Didn't Asus have this issue back in the day during SandyBridge/Haswell times with their watercooled VRM boards - one of the reasons they collaborated with EK for the Formula line to fix this. Seems like you're better off getting a Hero board and spring for an EK monoblock, will more than likely end up at the $800 pricepoint but with a decent quality block.
So did you not test the fins on top of the metal block?
He did it was 100% cooper.
What about max ram ddr5? I wish it can handle 8400mhz I didn’t like the apex encore and looking for white pc build
I have the ASUS formula x570 and it has the water cooling heat sink for water as well, I wonder if they have the same issue as this Z790
I have the same ASUS ROG CH8 FORMULA x570 motherboard. It has the EKWB VRM COOLERS. I am using the EK CPU COOLER WITH THE VRM BRIDGE PLATE. I have been running it over 2 years with no issues, but on my next coolant flush, I might want to open the VRM coolers and check it out...
Showing off your new toys/tools :P
I bought the formula z690 in 2021 and I think like 4 months later I fund something in the vrm block that blocked but I just cleaned a bit and moved on. Later 2023 when the news got I open my vrm this time and fund a lot of corrosion. Contacted my pc store in sweden and got a full refund. I will probably never buy any formula again even if it fixed now. Bought the apex z790 instead and Im very happy. But if the vrm got corroded that means my rad, block, and fittings is fucked too? I didnt find any on my block.
Fortunately the X570 Formula doesn't seem to suffer ( or at least mine hasn't ). Asus seem to have gone rather downhill since those days - I think I'm basically stuck with Asrock for future builds ( until they explode again ) because all the others are demonstrably terrible. Fancy producing motherboards? :D
asrock basically sister company of asus I think,
@@ScaryGuyID This was true over a decade ago.
Doing the lords work, making sure less consumers get scammed.
These fin blocks within the VRM loop channel remind me of the Galaxy Geforce 6600GT AGP, it has the same weird design from solid copper that is over the memory chips, a very weird solution.
active VRM cooling just isn't needed on the z690/z790. Back when i was running a ryzen build, an especially for FX I was running 40mm noctua fans on the VRM, but when I did my last build with the 13900k, VRM's only get to 40-45C while the cpu is pulling almost 300W. Fans just aren't needed on the VRM's, so I moved them to the m.2 ssds which do need some active cooling under those motherboard slabs.
it's needed if you want to keep the temps inside the case cooler. VRM gets really hot.
My guess is contact corrosion due to the use of different materials or simply too low layer thicknesses in the coating.
In addition, nickel layers are only really free of pores and "closed" from a layer thickness of 30µm and more.
The silicon that was measured in the coating can also be so-called "endogenous inclusions" that originate from the aluminium manufacturing process.
i looked again at the surfaces, and i can see some indicators that the nickle coating is not okay.
I am Japanese.
I should have found your video earlier.
Now I am in a simple water-cooled environment for CPU only, but I rate it high in self-satisfaction.
Chiq ( the ginger cat ) is interested with the Z790😸.
Like having a $1500 gpu with bad solder joints on some capacitors due to thermal conductivity from pcb and surrounding parts making it hard for solder to get hot enough without it being wicked away
You should introduce the cool cat. I think people would like to meet him !!
I dont get why ek didnt supply the blocks if they put their name on it
I heard that this board handles 4 memory modules @ 192gb in a far superior way vs any other board. Can you test the memory handling of this thing? No one who has reviewed this board tried more than 2 sticks. A lot of modern industries require as much ram as possible now, and if this board does 192gb @ 6800mhz, it would be really worth considering despite the price (even if you dont watercool) Like maybe the supported teamgroup kit CTCED596G6800HC36DDC01 x2 at it's stock settings.
Emery Board and sand the chip edge and minor surface if needed / chips thermal capability it’s acoustic dampening has effects on polish and cleaning
Z690 Extreme Glacial doesn't have this issue, which is a solid co-op between EK and ASUS.
Well, I would hope so for a $2000 motherboard.....
@@Apollo-Computers had the z690 it was trash a 2k single pcie slot MB where you cannot use the 5.0 nvme port (like all motherboards btw) because it HALVES your gpu slot bandwith (it's x8 period not x8 of 5.0...which means your 4090 runs 13gb/s instead of 26) and disabled the 2nd pcie slot, so again a 2k single pcie slot MB where you cannot use the 5.0 nvme slot it was so great I'm on a z790 ddr4 tomahawk DDR4 today motherboard now that i paid 460$ and that has 3 pcie slots useable and i can populate all 4 nvme slots (4.0) everything running at full speed oh and I can actually use 4 slots of ram unlike ddr5
Same here- MSI Z790 Tomahawk D4 and it's rock solid, 4 DIMMs running at 3600 MT for 128GB total (I wish browsers were more optimized- just saying.) Since I got this MSI board I have had zero issues, and it cost about the same as budget ASUS board. I mean I have a NH-D15 cooler, and vertical GPU, the motherboard isn't even visible anyways! @@fredEVOIX
I haven’t populated more than one pcie a lot in more than a decade. To each their own
6:20 Wait, since when do you have this microscope? I have one at work too, it’s the shit 😍.
I don’t have the laser material analysis functionality, but they wanted to upsell this to me many times. But we have a REM EDX machine for that, so i don’t need it anyway.
They’ve been using that exact fin style vrm block since at least the Maximus X Formula. Idk why that style is “odd” unless you’ve never opened a formula vrm block. The only thing they’ve changed is materials.
Glad you dug deeper into that plastic looking part. In my head before you tested it, I thought it looked like glass fiber reinforced polycarbonate. I think the material analysis shows that I could be right 😄
I had corrosion issues with an EK rad in my loop! Not using them again..
isnt easier just to full copper nickel plated and do some grooves on it? i dont get why they do these, sure boosts the costs so much to manufacture.
For $800 I'm expecting a monoblock from EK or something like that. MSI EK X MBs come with that and are much cheaper in comparisson.
I had sent my z690 formula for an rma and assumed they swapped the waterblock but they did not. So my z690 formula just sits around doing nothing because asus didn't swap rhe aluminum waterblock out.
I already bought this board and currently using it. I am glad to find out it won't cause corrosion issues in mu loop.
Why do I love this guy ?
I think the fins are there when the heat sink is dry, the temps were probably a bit high only with a copper block
it's just a weird design decision anyway. Not good for watercooling, mediocre as air cooling. Why not just release an actual watercooling edition? strange decision
Those fins are covered up by the black lid/flow guidance/whatever you want to call it. Definitely not for air cooling. Probably not very useful for water cooling either.
It'd be interesting to see VRM thermals with the fins covered/removed vs stock.
@@pickleadaykeepsthedoctoraw5542 Indeed there is no airflow but it gives more mass for the heat. Should help a bit with bursts of heat
they did the same thing on the Z97 Maximus formula board, they used aluminum, idk why they didn't just use cooper.
FWIW, Gigabyte did the same mixed metals thing with their gpu blocks. But they did not ever fix it.
Fascinating
der8auer has the best gadgets
I love this motherboard
Miss the lga775 massive copper vrm coolers.
It’s amazing to see how much engineering efforts Asus paid to cut the corner they’re not supposed to cut.😂😂
2:48
Kinda like the MSI mobis with ek mono locks, actually subpar cooling. Just ek in name
I would buy a board at that price if it had ipmi, or watercooeled vrm done properly, but that seems like the kind of cost cut version you'd see on a $600 version of the same board or something. Them passing this off as premium after the screw up last time just makes ASUS look even worse than they already do. I wish they didn't sacrifice function for form, and then charge the customer like they hadn't compromized on anything.
People complaining about Motherboard prices 🤣 the Z790 Formula probably can't overclock like the Apex/Apex Encore but at least it has more features. A lit up ROG logo, screen in the middle. Nice back plate, and it's white. Premium feel all around and it doesn't feel like a cheap $200-300 motherboard.
I like how EK doesnt get blamed, like ever...
That plastic case to me it seems to be High-Density Polyethylene but I might be wrong tho
In Australia this MB costs around $1399 AUD.
Aquacomputer always seemed like the real top dog, both quality and performance. EK looks cleaner and does monoblocks so is popular I guess.
Watercool for blocks and Aquacomputer for controllers/monitoring for me.
My favorite gpu waterblock is the aquacomputer 2080 ti in nickel. The mems use paste, not pads.
My leakshield bricked itself on a firmware update and they just left me in limbo :(
Gunna try Linux Garuda for gammers on my old ddr3 pc to learn more B4 i decide to try it on my ddr4 pc m2
the D/load = 4gb specs you need 30gb space & min 8gb ram runs better than windows less crap installed you add what you need unlike windows bloatware
Hmm, that plastic cover...
Polycarbonate? Polyoxybenzylmethyleneglycolanhydride? or some sort of CF infused composite perhaps?
My Asus Crosshair 4 Extreme had a Koolance waterblock and it was flawless. I always avoided EK I never liked how many different manfuacturing issues they have had over the years.
What kind of manufacturing issues? Been using EK myself for about a decade now, yet to have any issues with any of their parts.
Actually, thinking it through - I did have one bottle of 1L clear liquid which had some weird bits in it, shipped through winter. Support and getting am exchange wasn't an issue, they claimed it being due to sub-zero temperatures. That is one bottle out of probably 10 over the years.
@@Nightykk As I have been running aluminum based radiators for over a decade having quality nickel plating on the copper is a very important. They have had a few batches over the years where the plating hasn't held up.
Why water cool overspecced VRM?
Why not? (-8
@@floodo1 forget to switch accounts?
My asus motherboard which is quite high end has a bug with the blue leds staying on at all times. Ggs.
I would like to point out that he is only referring to if you are using water cooling. Me personally I would never take that risk. As it may allow the PC to have lower temps, there is no downfall to traditional DC or VRM cooling.
Asus also uses 5 GbE on this z790 board vs 10 GbE on the z690... so a regression there.
Man i was gonna buy this for my first water cooling build. Not now...
better if they make a solid path instead of two-layer paths. It will be good for the liquid cooler.
Pcb power ram independent tuning , have fun
All the cool Keyence toys. . .
The stamping on the black plastic piece will tell you what it is made of. You just have to decode it.
It just seems that at €800, most buyers of this have budget to spare. Why spend that kind of money instead of a full cover block or separate vrm block? It's aimed at enthusiasts, so asus cutting corners is insane. Maybe they don't actually like making products in this class, so poor sales give them an excuse to stop. It's certainly low margin.
I have their Z590 waterblocked board. I can see corrosion on the vrms and the flaking of the plating through the chipset channels. Its also happening on EKs ram blocks.
I dont know what makes them keep going this route. Its not quality, and nobody is praising it.
Sad to see this brand slowly move to a Budget brand. Last time i bought a asus was a X99 Deluxe Motherboard i bought quite a bit of asus boards in the past but now i moved to other brands
Just having them take like 1 second longer in solder bath boom capacitor solder issues gone
Asus