@@RolandoMarreroPR = You may have problems with your ears too. NEXT THING you'll say is = Streetfighter sounds better on Genesis, then it does on SNES.
I like better the megadrive version. Its graphics are more advanced and appealing, also, the moving car feels rather confusing on screen and the md version car is bigger, md feels much more polished, whereas SNES feel rushed, it's a pity because it could look much better, perhaps if it had a supporting chip?
For information, this game is a console port of the original Vroom game, first released on Sinclair QL, then on Amiga, Atari ST and PC. These last versions were ultimately more advanced than the Megadrive version and especially the SNES version which seem to be a technical generation behind.
@@simon0044 I just rewatched this video while playing with the Amiga version. I don't see how you find the Megadrive version superior to the Amiga version. I want your arguments. The 3D of the Megadrive version is very basic, it lacks details. The playing distance is much greater on Amiga. The graphics look sketchy on Megadrive. And the Amiga version seems much faster and smoother. Indeed, most of the time, the Megadrive offers better versions than the Amiga (except sound of course), but there are some exceptions including this one and Aladdin for example.
@@FredericBOISDRON VCdecide mentioned this in the video, this Megadrive game is actually a sequel to the game you are referring to. They released Vroom on the Megadrive as Formula One F1. Visually it is very comparable to the Amiga version, running at a smooth framerate and having the same number of cars and onscreen roadside objects. And it looks better/smoother than the Megadrive game presented here.
This is great! I just got into a very technical argument with a Nintendo fanbot. This idiot claimed the Sega Genesis could not produce polygonal graphics without the SVP chip and that is false. I used your Kawasaki Racing comparison to shut him up. After that he didn't want to talk anymore. I know there are many Genesis games with polygonal based graphics but your videos are so...concise that I didn't need any more. I think I'm going to drop this one in that CZcams thread as well just to mess with him. ;)
Donde en SNES vemos un correcto juego de F1 en Megadrive/Genesis vemos un juego de F1 muy realista, de las mejores simulaciones que se pueden encontrar en una 16bit, hay un mundo de diferencia entre estos dos juegos, jugable y técnicamente, ya que en Megadrive/Genesis el motor gráfico es brutal, pudiendo mostrar polígonos.
@@geminielectro There is no 3D in Steel Talons either? Nah, genesis CPU has a higher clock. The efficiency of a CPU is not mesured only by its clock though
It's crazy what the MD/Genesis could do as a 1988 launched console. I kind of ignored the racing games other than Virtua Racing at the time. I don't think they did a very good job of marketing this one or getting the gaming mags to point out the graphics achievement.
Even an SA-1 would have offered a dramatic upgrade. I know SNES development was difficult and expensive, but other simulation developers like KOEI were aware of the exact size of their niche markets, and could turn a profit from a limited run dry history lesson that otherwise would have been priced out of the console market. Domark had the potential to market themselves as a prestige simulation developer, even if it meant fewer sales at a higher price point...surely, this would be a safer gamble for their long term brand than the SNES version's aggressive mediocrity?
I was checking out a few F1 games on both Genesis and SNES recently, and I noticed that Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing on SNES runs really smoothly while pushing some of the nicest and most consistent visuals of these F1 games on both consoles too. Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing is a solid 30fps on SNES, full screen and updating everything on-screen each time. And it seems Newman-Haas Indy Car Featuring Nigel Mansell on SNES actually runs even smoother at a sort of 60fps, but only updating half of the on-screen elements each frame. I think that was the highest frame rate of any of the more standard-style F1 games I saw. F1 World Championship Edition shown here was actually the slowest I saw at 15fps-20fps. Most of the Genesis F1 games run at around 20fps, like the first and second Monaco GP games (the first one is also in 256x224 resolution). Newman-Haas Indy Car Featuring Nigel Mansell on Genesis manage around 12fps-15fps, but there's some noticeable forced blank there and the dashboard takes up a large chunk of the screen. Formula 1 F1 on Genesis is around 12fps-15fps (or 15fps-20fps in Turbo mode), and there's some forced blank there too. Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing is a solid 30fps just like the SNES version, but it appears to have a little forced blank at the top and bottom of the screen looking at your other comparison video. And F1 World Championship Edition shown here on Genesis is 12fps-15fps. And, if we go into Mode 7 racers like Super Mario Kart, Street Racer, Exhaust Heat, and F-Zero, we're getting full-screen 60fps on SNES. And these are without doubt some of best playing racing games of the era, so you get both the smoothness and the gameplay there. So, in all fairness, SNES is holding up just fine when it comes to these racing games. The base Genesis can definitely push more polygons around at a higher frame rate than the base SNES though. And having polygons is indeed interesting from a technical point of view. But generating proper 3D like this comes at a clear cost on these old systems that just weren't made for it ultimately, and it certainly doesn't hold up by today's standards. I think we're better off sticking with much newer consoles if we're going to focus on great 3D racing games to be honest.
They pulled all the stops presentation wise for the Genesis version. Intro animation was cool. Also very colorful for a Genesis game especially the background stills. Seeing your pit crew work on car as you adjust your race settings is a nice touch. The HUD was clear and easy to read with a fuel gauge. Plus the changing elevation, weather, 3d buildings, articulating suspension, and reflective mirrors. However I see what you mean about the gameplay. It's like the Genesis Madden NFL games where your pretty much playing the same game as last years but with a fresh new coat of paint to make it seem different.
era bem comum disso acontecer, a CPU do SNES era muito desconhecida para a maioria dos programadores, a do Mega veio dos fliperamas, logo era mais facil trabalhar com a CPU do mega, por isso que era mais facil termos jogos 3D no mega, em contrapartida, o Mega sofria muito e a engine 3D fosse mal portada, ao ponto que ficava realmente lenta, no SNES dava sim pra por um cenário "3D", pois vale ressaltar, na maioria dessas engines o cenário não é necessariamente "3D", ele simulava o 3D, pois há uma limitação real, mas tudo se comporta como num 3D, mas há mais truques do que coisas sendo executadas em 3D, na realidade apenas os elementos que vemos ali são poligonos na sua forma mais simples e crua, tudo correndo via software, a pista ainda é toda em 2D, mas há truques que fazem parecer 3D e aqui usa até uma câmera que simulava o 3D, mas não é 3D pra valer, ainda sim é muito legal ver o quanto os Devs se esforçavam para fazer algo a frente do seu tempo. Nesse caso aqui, o port é porco para o SNES (se é que pode ser chamado de port pois é um jogo novo) e claramente o SNES faria muito melhor, mas o Port do MD é realmente incrível, o frame é estavel, a tela é grande, realmente gostei!
@@JoaoRFilho não cara, tbm pensava assim, mas eu fui a fundo nela e a CPU do Snes era desconhecida sim para os programadores, ela não funciona igual a CPU do NES e ela não era lenta, ela quase que se equipara a do Mega, o problema não era potência e sim forma de funcionamento, a do mega era mais conhecida então era mais fácil de contornar os problemas, a do SNES era algo novo e trabalhava de um jeito diferente, isso que gerava tanto problemas nos seus jogos pois na maioria eram portados do mega drive.
@@mouratec só que aí estamos falando de poder bruto, o mega tinha +mhz e um envio de dados de 16bit e isso contava muito, quer ver um exemplo prático, o processador do switch é relativamente até mais poderoso ao processador do PS3 no geral, contudo devido ao GHz mais baixo, ele tem dificuldade em certas tarefas que exigem poder bruto, o mesmo ocorre na CPU do snes de certa forma, isso acontece que em poder bruto a do PS3 leva, mas a do switch é tão otimizada que consegue resultados até melhores, o snes consegue resultados iguais ou até melhores que o mega em certos pontos por ser mais moderno, mas perde em outros, o 3D (só pra não dizer polígonos) deles é via software pois o console não possui suporte nativo para isso, e caso não saiba, algo feito via software exige CPU e apenas CPU, no caso a do snes é mais eficiente e consegue se igualar com a do mega, a do mega tem mais poder bruto, logo advinha quem vai conseguir entregar um desempenho melhor no 3D? Sobre O super FX, ele é um chip barato que dava o poder do snes de gerar polígonos, não dá pra comparar com o Chip usados no virtua racing ou virtua fight que era mais caro, mas ele consegue sim resultados melhores que o mega sem nenhum chip, além disso o super FX 2 era mais interessante tecnicamente, mas não faz milagre, era sim possível títulos melhores em 3D para o snes, contudo exigia uma trabalho muito árduo, sem falar que. O funcionamento do SNES é muito diferente do Mega, não é algo simples de explicar, mas é bem diferente, por isso portar jogos do mega para o snes e vice versa era tos desafiador, contudo o mega tinha uma vantagem enorme pela sua CPU ser mais conhecida e de certa forma mais fácil de se programar!
@@mouratec não, é mais potente mas também e menos eficiente, mais rápida é a do snes, ela faz com 1mhz o que o mega precisa com 2mhz, por isso que se equivalem mesmo sendo tão diferentes, mas não é algo fácil de explicar porque realmente exige um conhecimento médio do funcionamento da arquiteturas dos 2 CPUs
@@mouratec Ele não é mais rápido nem em 3D, ele tem + potencia bruta, por isso ele consegue um melhor desempenho, se ele fosse mais "rápido" que o SNES em 3D ele correria Virtua Racing sem chip especial, eles correm 3D com a mesma dificuldade mas tudo o que o Mega consegue a + no 3D é devido a sua força bruta e não a sua velocidade ou eficiência, outra coisa é falar que o Mega consegue por + polígonos e com melhor desempenho que o SNES, pois é um fato, o SNES não sabe lidar com muitos polígonos por sua força bruta ser menor, mesmo sendo mais eficiente e rápido, necessitando de um chip 3D a parte, mas o FX1 não era um chip potente nem na sua época e praticamente só tornavam o SNES num MD no 3D mas com um desempenho inferior, só no FX2 que a coisa muda um pouco fazendo ele se aproximar do MD (só ver o Star fox 2), por isso eram baratos, diferente do chip colocado no Virtua Racing e Fighter que era bem caro.
Since this is a European comparison, it might be worth noting, that the Mega Drive didn't come out in Europe until 1990, unlike Japan where it came out in 1988(As noted in the video), and the SNES wasn't released until 1992, unlike Japan where it came out in 1990(As stated in the video) USA got the consoles in 1989 and 1991 respectively.
Impressionnant, il n'y a pas beaucoup de domaines ou la megadrive ( genesis) est supérieure à la snes, mais ici la megadrive enterre sa concurente historique, c'est presque ridicule de voir ça sur la snes, mais même avec le mode 7 ou une puce de type sa-1 ou encore superFX pas sûr de voir quelque chose d'aussi vif et accrocheur que le jeu sur Sega
I'm a snes fan but have to say the Megadrive is an easy win here. The snes version just looks like a pretty version of earlier generation racing games but the Megadrive introduces a much better 3D effect with polygons and cockpit view. A big win for the Megadrive I would say. However maybe in playability terms its not such an extreme comparison, an impressive looking game doesn't always play well.
Difference is abysmal 😳 SNES needed additional chips in the cartridge for all the more computationally intensive games, the Sega just needed the Motorola 68000.
AMAZING WHAT CAN ACH8EVE A SEGA GENESIS CONSOLE BACK IN THE DAY, JUST AMAZING, just as AMAZING ARE THE VIDEOS shared in this AMAAZING CHANEL, THANKS AND WAITING FOR THE OTHERS, AMAZING JOB, AS ALWAYS.
Muita gente não fala e não sabe, mas pra trabalhar com polígonos, o Mega Drive é muito melhor que o Super Nintendo, e esse jogo serve muito bem de exmplo pra mostrar as diferenças. É uma característica de hardware, tem coisas que um é melhor, outro pior e vice versa. Os dois jogos são bons, mas se for pra escolher, eu fico com a do Mega Drive. Ótimo vídeo como sempre, abraço.
Verdade mesmo, o mega drive tem bem mais capacidade de usar polígonos do que o snes. O maior exemplo está no jogo não-lançado Resq, onde as fases bônus são totalmente em 3d e batem de frente com o Starfox sem o uso de chips auxiliares
No es necesario el chip Super Fx, la version de Nigel Mansell IndyCar para snes es un claro ejemplo de que era posible hacer casi lo mismo siempre y cuando los programadores le sacaran provecho al hardware.
A versão de SNES é mais bonita, mas a versão de Mega Drive é muito mais impressionante por utilizar poligonos o que era uma novidade pra época e raro de se ver nesses consoles.
By “3D engine” surely you mean sprite scaling. Road Rash also uses sprite scaling, hence the choppy frame rate. There are some 3D objects but it’s not a 3D engine. This is the engine also used in Kawasaki Challenge. The SNES version of that game also has some 3D objects but less than the Mega Drive version and no sprite scaling or as advanced track markings. I think the original F1 game has the best frame rate simply because the programmers were better. The rain effect is a minor load on the cpu.
@@JoseMarques9090 they can but it uses the cpu so frame rates are usually choppy. Not always though - check out the gnomes on stage 3 of The Adventures of Batman and Robin on the Genesis. The SNES not so much. But Outlander does pull it off. Then of course, the Genesis version of this game.
@@fellipealcantara3191 O _F1,_ o anterior, um dos melhores jogos de simulador de corrida da "era 16 bit", considero. Acho que só perde pra _F1: Beyond of the Limits_ (Sega CD). Para 3°, no podium: _Nigel Mansell: WC_ (SNES).
Genesis - real scaling and rotation, + 3D objects. And in the car perspective. And fast. Snes - looks fun but clearly a different game and far less impressive.
Love the 3d objects on side of the road on the mega drive. The SNES is moving around a lot of sprites. This is not a 3d engine. The cars are sprites drawn multiple sizes. Road rash is also not a 3d engine. It does use some software based scaling and runs horribly because of it.
Não sei o que comprometeu mais a versão do SNES, se a falta da engine 3D ou da visão de dentro do carro. Para quem jogou esse jogo essa visão traseira tira totalmente a imersão.
Interessante a versão do super Nintendo e bem simples mas bem rápida a versão do mega drive e muito bonita graficamente o que deixa o jogo mais lento acho q fica a gosto pessoal então digo se quer um jogo rápido vá de SUPER NINTENDO se quer uma versão mais bonita nos gráficos vá de MEGA DRIVE o importante é jogar e ser feliz mas para mim eu fico e dou a vitória a versão do mega drive por levar o hardware ao limite e sem chip especial o que é incrível para um vídeo game de 1988🎮
Para los que en verdad pudimos jugar la versión de mega drive, colocar ese juego en modo simulación, llevaba la consola a unos niveles de velocidad injugables, era y es super rápido como si quisieran que nos aprendieramos de memoria las pistas como la única opción para jugarlo. Durante esa generación no ví un juego que logrará mover a tal velocidad todos esos Sprites
They were thinking they needed the money, didn’t have the budget for a new engine where an existing mode 7 one would do, had a release schedule to meet, and didn’t want to spend extra on a SuperFX chip. Someone could have made the game better for SNES, but they didn’t, and probably not for arbitrary reasons.
SNES could do the engine that genesis is doing without a superfx chip. SNES cpu is comparable to the genesis cpu despite the clock speed difference, it would have to be coded to the snes and use the hirom cart or else the snes is not running at full clocks. The Snes version is just a bad port or version, since the SNES can do better. Tl/dr: It's up to a good developer to get the most out of the system.
Yeah, no. The MD CPU was better than the Snes one for arithmetic (and thus polygonal) calculations. Why do you think every single non-chipped polygonal Snes game runs worse than their MD counterpart? All devs were lazy?
@@StanislaoMoulinsky79 Not exactly, the genesis does have a sight clockspeed advantage and some math advantages but it’s not that big. The Snes 65C816 is modified with addition of 16-bit multiplication and division units, which the stock doesn’t have. 65C816 is more efficient than 68000 heck the 6502 can be faster per clock or when clock to the same levels, but the 68000 has a lot more experienced coders and board support. It’s in a lot computers, arcades, and embedded platforms. Yes devs for those 3d polygonal snes made bad software, especially if it was Atari port pawned off to 3rd party dev or if the main platform was genesis development. They’re won’t lazy, they had either no time or experience or both usually. Especially something like Race Driven on Snes was just really awful code proven by overclocking and efforts to improve it.
Wow, its not even close, the SNES version looks downright boring, even when compared to a lot of other 2D racers! I am sad the Mega Drive version didn't get a release on the Genesis here in the States, I'd really like to see how it compares to the first game by playing it myself.
S.N.E.S. has a nice sky blend of color but i think the Mega Drive is the better version and there are a couple of annoying SEGA fan boys in the comments arent doing the game any favors
Like for the previous Mega Drive game, you're talking about a "3D engine" while it's not. It's not because there are some polygonal objects displayed that it means it's a 3D engine. It's very much a 2D engine, with some kind of sprite scaling and rotation. A 3D engine would allow you to turn around and drive the track in reverse (which this engine can't technically do), and without an additional chip like the SVP, the frame rate would be way too choppy for a racing game (look at LHX Attack Chopper for an example of how a real 3D engine runs on the stock Mega Drive). The game is still impressive for a Mega Drive game though. It's just not a 3D engine. Pseudo-3D I can agree with ;) Also, would it be possible that the frame rate is significantly worse in the sequel because it's a PAL (50Hz) version, and you probably tested the NA (60Hz) version of the previous game ? A comparison of both games in their PAL version would be nice :)
No sé, tuve ambos sistemas más en su tiempo era difícil ( y muy caro) conseguir muchos juegos, el de génesis me parece inovador para su tiempo, pero los cuadros por segundo hacen que odie su framerate, el de SuperNintendo me parece un juego de carreras muy bien echo pero para los que entonces eran niños.
You conclude your video with the very problem I see in the comments section of your videos all the time. "...these 2 versions and the capabilities of their respective systems." You can't conclude much of anything about the capabilities of the Genesis or SNES from this comparison, yet people try to all the time and it makes no sense. Stop choosing shoddy games from inept companies. I would also add that often times a game will be made for one system and then handed off to another company to be ported to something else. If a game wasn't built from the ground up for a particular piece of hardware it isn't going to be very good either. You would honestly be better off comparing what are considered to be some of the best Genesis racing games with some of the best SNES racing games.
¿Alguien pudo dar bien esa maldita última curva? Esa junto a una de las horquillas de Magny Cours, Estoril y Spa siempre fueron mi punto débil, hasta el día de hoy ja ja.
O próprio Turtles roda mais fluido, zoon dos inimigos na tela seria possível tb. Embora não nativo do sistema, o console poderia simular efeitos bem interessantes
O lado ruim destes jogos de Fórmula 1 é que a jogabilidade deles não são para todos, nunca consigo fazer o carrinho parar quieto nas pistas é péssimo demais, bem falo isto por mim, até porque a pessoas que jogam isso majestosamente bem, único game neste estilo que eu até que me dou bem é no Virtua Racing - mesmo assim, só concluo a primeira pista, e na dificuldade mais fácil, como gostaria de um game de F1 com uma jogabilidade mais arcade.
À época eu até que jogava muito bem esse jogo, não sei se consigo fazer o mesmo hoje em dia. O segredo está na configuração do carro (saber qual aerofólio usar na pista e usar a marcha manual) para ter o controle da velocidade e estabilidade do carro.
Quando o jogo fica pior dá pra falar todas aquelas coisas sobre o poder do sistema, falta de recursos, memória e o caramba mas esse do super nintendo já foi cara de pau, não é possível
That SNES port is horrible. I suspect that because the genesis had more raw power in CPU and an already developed 3D engine, it was easier to make the Genesis version look good. I suspect it would be a different story if the SuperFX chip was used for the SNES port. It also always confused me why the same publisher had different intros and music for the same games on different systems. I understand that the tools to produce the content were different, but you would think they would work off the same basic roadmap or storyboard and share assets where possible. Instead, they always had entirely different teams working on these projects. Most of the platformer games got this right, but other ports were so different it made me wonder why they couldn’t come up with a better way to release the same title for multiple systems.
@@NotaPizzaGRL True. Most PCs at the time used a hardware similar to Genesis. SNES cpu was used in a single Apple PC. That't why there is a easy approach programming tool available to make games for Genesis. But not for Snes.
Ok... for a F1 game that came out in 1995, the SNES game is clearly a joke ! If I want a car game on SNES that don't relies on mode 7 capacities, I would rather go playing Top Gear that came out 3 years before.
Genesis is more advanced, but plays very bad. Tried it a dozen times, it's just not good to play. SNes is more of the same Top Gear-like game it has in buckets, very difficult to miss with such a known recipe.
This was an incredible game on the Genesis/Mega Drive. It definitely deserved more attention and respect back in the day.
The Genesis version makes the SNES version look like a Master System game!
The Master System version looks worse.
@@jsr734 - Then Genesis
@@Psicodelico_May be color blind but can tell the difference between rendering polygons vs moving small, medium & large in a sequence.
@@RolandoMarreroPR = You may have problems with your ears too. NEXT THING you'll say is = Streetfighter sounds better on Genesis, then it does on SNES.
@@Psicodelico_ example 4:12 to 4:20. Then 4:38 and 4:42.
I like better the megadrive version. Its graphics are more advanced and appealing, also, the moving car feels rather confusing on screen and the md version car is bigger, md feels much more polished, whereas SNES feel rushed, it's a pity because it could look much better, perhaps if it had a supporting chip?
Or a more skilled developer.
@@jsr734100% that.
a versão do mega drive é impressionante, nunca joguei esse jogo, mas olhando assim, parece nítido qual a melhor versão
For information, this game is a console port of the original Vroom game, first released on Sinclair QL, then on Amiga, Atari ST and PC. These last versions were ultimately more advanced than the Megadrive version and especially the SNES version which seem to be a technical generation behind.
the Amiga and st versions are worse than the megadrive version. Megadrive always looked better than the Amiga and at
@@simon0044 I just rewatched this video while playing with the Amiga version. I don't see how you find the Megadrive version superior to the Amiga version. I want your arguments.
The 3D of the Megadrive version is very basic, it lacks details. The playing distance is much greater on Amiga. The graphics look sketchy on Megadrive. And the Amiga version seems much faster and smoother.
Indeed, most of the time, the Megadrive offers better versions than the Amiga (except sound of course), but there are some exceptions including this one and Aladdin for example.
@@FredericBOISDRON If it's an Amiga Port, that explains the Snes version not pushing the console capacities. It's an Amiga Port after all 🤷
@@FredericBOISDRON VCdecide mentioned this in the video, this Megadrive game is actually a sequel to the game you are referring to.
They released Vroom on the Megadrive as Formula One F1. Visually it is very comparable to the Amiga version, running at a smooth framerate and having the same number of cars and onscreen roadside objects. And it looks better/smoother than the Megadrive game presented here.
@@JoseMarques9090wdym by that an amiga port for snes
Mega Drive 👍🏼
This is great! I just got into a very technical argument with a Nintendo fanbot. This idiot claimed the Sega Genesis could not produce polygonal graphics without the SVP chip and that is false.
I used your Kawasaki Racing comparison to shut him up. After that he didn't want to talk anymore. I know there are many Genesis games with polygonal based graphics but your videos are so...concise that I didn't need any more. I think I'm going to drop this one in that CZcams thread as well just to mess with him. ;)
Donde en SNES vemos un correcto juego de F1 en Megadrive/Genesis vemos un juego de F1 muy realista, de las mejores simulaciones que se pueden encontrar en una 16bit, hay un mundo de diferencia entre estos dos juegos, jugable y técnicamente, ya que en Megadrive/Genesis el motor gráfico es brutal, pudiendo mostrar polígonos.
Wow. That’s some fast 3D on Genesis. Surprised that SNES couldn’t do the same.
It could
@@danwarb1 Nah. Lawnmower Man didn't have any special chip. Lots of 3D effects. And better game on Snes.
@@danwarb1 Also Genesis CPU was not faster. Just had a higher clock.
@@JoseMarques9090 There's no 3D in Lawnmower man. Only 2D zoom fx and mode 7. And yes, the Megadrive's CPU is more powerful than the SNES's.
@@geminielectro There is no 3D in Steel Talons either? Nah, genesis CPU has a higher clock. The efficiency of a CPU is not mesured only by its clock though
I wish we had this version on Genesis. Very cool!
It's crazy what the MD/Genesis could do as a 1988 launched console. I kind of ignored the racing games other than Virtua Racing at the time. I don't think they did a very good job of marketing this one or getting the gaming mags to point out the graphics achievement.
Foi uma judiação esta versão do SNES, ainda mais se olharmos os dois jogos do Nigel Mansel para o console.
Even an SA-1 would have offered a dramatic upgrade. I know SNES development was difficult and expensive, but other simulation developers like KOEI were aware of the exact size of their niche markets, and could turn a profit from a limited run dry history lesson that otherwise would have been priced out of the console market.
Domark had the potential to market themselves as a prestige simulation developer, even if it meant fewer sales at a higher price point...surely, this would be a safer gamble for their long term brand than the SNES version's aggressive mediocrity?
Snes look a lot like the SMS version in your previous video.
Real polygons with a decent frame rate > mode 7
ahahahahha
Yeah, it piss on Mario Kart, Fzero,Street Racer...
@@cristojavier1859 hahahahahahaahahhahahaah ahahahahahaahahahahahahah
@@cristojavier1859 pretty much. Mario kart is more fun though
@@cristojavier1859So that's why Genesis can't run Turtles in Time 😮
Definitely the Genesis wins here. Can't believe they were able to do that 1995 O.O
I was checking out a few F1 games on both Genesis and SNES recently, and I noticed that Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing on SNES runs really smoothly while pushing some of the nicest and most consistent visuals of these F1 games on both consoles too.
Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing is a solid 30fps on SNES, full screen and updating everything on-screen each time. And it seems Newman-Haas Indy Car Featuring Nigel Mansell on SNES actually runs even smoother at a sort of 60fps, but only updating half of the on-screen elements each frame. I think that was the highest frame rate of any of the more standard-style F1 games I saw. F1 World Championship Edition shown here was actually the slowest I saw at 15fps-20fps.
Most of the Genesis F1 games run at around 20fps, like the first and second Monaco GP games (the first one is also in 256x224 resolution). Newman-Haas Indy Car Featuring Nigel Mansell on Genesis manage around 12fps-15fps, but there's some noticeable forced blank there and the dashboard takes up a large chunk of the screen. Formula 1 F1 on Genesis is around 12fps-15fps (or 15fps-20fps in Turbo mode), and there's some forced blank there too. Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing is a solid 30fps just like the SNES version, but it appears to have a little forced blank at the top and bottom of the screen looking at your other comparison video. And F1 World Championship Edition shown here on Genesis is 12fps-15fps.
And, if we go into Mode 7 racers like Super Mario Kart, Street Racer, Exhaust Heat, and F-Zero, we're getting full-screen 60fps on SNES. And these are without doubt some of best playing racing games of the era, so you get both the smoothness and the gameplay there.
So, in all fairness, SNES is holding up just fine when it comes to these racing games.
The base Genesis can definitely push more polygons around at a higher frame rate than the base SNES though. And having polygons is indeed interesting from a technical point of view. But generating proper 3D like this comes at a clear cost on these old systems that just weren't made for it ultimately, and it certainly doesn't hold up by today's standards. I think we're better off sticking with much newer consoles if we're going to focus on great 3D racing games to be honest.
Única coisa que não gosto desse jogo é essa faixa de informação que ocupa quase metade da tela, fora isso é um dos melhores jogos de corrida do Mega
The snes version looks more like a Top Gear game with F1 skin.
They pulled all the stops presentation wise for the Genesis version. Intro animation was cool. Also very colorful for a Genesis game especially the background stills. Seeing your pit crew work on car as you adjust your race settings is a nice touch. The HUD was clear and easy to read with a fuel gauge. Plus the changing elevation, weather, 3d buildings, articulating suspension, and reflective mirrors. However I see what you mean about the gameplay. It's like the Genesis Madden NFL games where your pretty much playing the same game as last years but with a fresh new coat of paint to make it seem different.
era bem comum disso acontecer, a CPU do SNES era muito desconhecida para a maioria dos programadores, a do Mega veio dos fliperamas, logo era mais facil trabalhar com a CPU do mega, por isso que era mais facil termos jogos 3D no mega, em contrapartida, o Mega sofria muito e a engine 3D fosse mal portada, ao ponto que ficava realmente lenta, no SNES dava sim pra por um cenário "3D", pois vale ressaltar, na maioria dessas engines o cenário não é necessariamente "3D", ele simulava o 3D, pois há uma limitação real, mas tudo se comporta como num 3D, mas há mais truques do que coisas sendo executadas em 3D, na realidade apenas os elementos que vemos ali são poligonos na sua forma mais simples e crua, tudo correndo via software, a pista ainda é toda em 2D, mas há truques que fazem parecer 3D e aqui usa até uma câmera que simulava o 3D, mas não é 3D pra valer, ainda sim é muito legal ver o quanto os Devs se esforçavam para fazer algo a frente do seu tempo.
Nesse caso aqui, o port é porco para o SNES (se é que pode ser chamado de port pois é um jogo novo) e claramente o SNES faria muito melhor, mas o Port do MD é realmente incrível, o frame é estavel, a tela é grande, realmente gostei!
A CPU do snes não era nada desconhecida. Sucessora de sucesso da cpu do NES.
Porem a versão usada no SNES era lenta mesmo.
@@JoaoRFilho não cara, tbm pensava assim, mas eu fui a fundo nela e a CPU do Snes era desconhecida sim para os programadores, ela não funciona igual a CPU do NES e ela não era lenta, ela quase que se equipara a do Mega, o problema não era potência e sim forma de funcionamento, a do mega era mais conhecida então era mais fácil de contornar os problemas, a do SNES era algo novo e trabalhava de um jeito diferente, isso que gerava tanto problemas nos seus jogos pois na maioria eram portados do mega drive.
@@mouratec só que aí estamos falando de poder bruto, o mega tinha +mhz e um envio de dados de 16bit e isso contava muito, quer ver um exemplo prático, o processador do switch é relativamente até mais poderoso ao processador do PS3 no geral, contudo devido ao GHz mais baixo, ele tem dificuldade em certas tarefas que exigem poder bruto, o mesmo ocorre na CPU do snes de certa forma, isso acontece que em poder bruto a do PS3 leva, mas a do switch é tão otimizada que consegue resultados até melhores, o snes consegue resultados iguais ou até melhores que o mega em certos pontos por ser mais moderno, mas perde em outros, o 3D (só pra não dizer polígonos) deles é via software pois o console não possui suporte nativo para isso, e caso não saiba, algo feito via software exige CPU e apenas CPU, no caso a do snes é mais eficiente e consegue se igualar com a do mega, a do mega tem mais poder bruto, logo advinha quem vai conseguir entregar um desempenho melhor no 3D?
Sobre O super FX, ele é um chip barato que dava o poder do snes de gerar polígonos, não dá pra comparar com o Chip usados no virtua racing ou virtua fight que era mais caro, mas ele consegue sim resultados melhores que o mega sem nenhum chip, além disso o super FX 2 era mais interessante tecnicamente, mas não faz milagre, era sim possível títulos melhores em 3D para o snes, contudo exigia uma trabalho muito árduo, sem falar que. O funcionamento do SNES é muito diferente do Mega, não é algo simples de explicar, mas é bem diferente, por isso portar jogos do mega para o snes e vice versa era tos desafiador, contudo o mega tinha uma vantagem enorme pela sua CPU ser mais conhecida e de certa forma mais fácil de se programar!
@@mouratec não, é mais potente mas também e menos eficiente, mais rápida é a do snes, ela faz com 1mhz o que o mega precisa com 2mhz, por isso que se equivalem mesmo sendo tão diferentes, mas não é algo fácil de explicar porque realmente exige um conhecimento médio do funcionamento da arquiteturas dos 2 CPUs
@@mouratec Ele não é mais rápido nem em 3D, ele tem + potencia bruta, por isso ele consegue um melhor desempenho, se ele fosse mais "rápido" que o SNES em 3D ele correria Virtua Racing sem chip especial, eles correm 3D com a mesma dificuldade mas tudo o que o Mega consegue a + no 3D é devido a sua força bruta e não a sua velocidade ou eficiência, outra coisa é falar que o Mega consegue por + polígonos e com melhor desempenho que o SNES, pois é um fato, o SNES não sabe lidar com muitos polígonos por sua força bruta ser menor, mesmo sendo mais eficiente e rápido, necessitando de um chip 3D a parte, mas o FX1 não era um chip potente nem na sua época e praticamente só tornavam o SNES num MD no 3D mas com um desempenho inferior, só no FX2 que a coisa muda um pouco fazendo ele se aproximar do MD (só ver o Star fox 2), por isso eram baratos, diferente do chip colocado no Virtua Racing e Fighter que era bem caro.
Since this is a European comparison, it might be worth noting, that the Mega Drive didn't come out in Europe until 1990, unlike Japan where it came out in 1988(As noted in the video), and the SNES wasn't released until 1992, unlike Japan where it came out in 1990(As stated in the video) USA got the consoles in 1989 and 1991 respectively.
Sega Mega Drive finished and won. 🏁
Sega mega Drive wins again...
Impressionnant, il n'y a pas beaucoup de domaines ou la megadrive ( genesis) est supérieure à la snes, mais ici la megadrive enterre sa concurente historique, c'est presque ridicule de voir ça sur la snes, mais même avec le mode 7 ou une puce de type sa-1 ou encore superFX pas sûr de voir quelque chose d'aussi vif et accrocheur que le jeu sur Sega
SNES looks cartoonish and sounds awful. SMD is so much better
And realistic feel to the gameplay on megadrive
I'm a snes fan but have to say the Megadrive is an easy win here. The snes version just looks like a pretty version of earlier generation racing games but the Megadrive introduces a much better 3D effect with polygons and cockpit view. A big win for the Megadrive I would say. However maybe in playability terms its not such an extreme comparison, an impressive looking game doesn't always play well.
@@bonzobanana1 I like both consoles, but for me personally the racing games were better on Sega
@@SketchTurnerZeroSure, Top Gear 2, 3000, f zero, Mariokart, rock n roll Racing, nigel mansell, Street Racer
wish I knew about these 2 games for my MD 25 years ago...yes I used to play on my MD until 2000 and PS2 era
Mega Drive version looks better 👍
The Genesis version is better.
The previous version of F1 on the Mega Drive appears to have 3D cars which allowed for scaling, but they dumped that for this version.
De hecho los autos si son sprites con escalamiento real.
Difference is abysmal 😳 SNES needed additional chips in the cartridge for all the more computationally intensive games, the Sega just needed the Motorola 68000.
AMAZING WHAT CAN ACH8EVE A SEGA GENESIS CONSOLE BACK IN THE DAY, JUST AMAZING, just as AMAZING ARE THE VIDEOS shared in this AMAAZING CHANEL, THANKS AND WAITING FOR THE OTHERS, AMAZING JOB, AS ALWAYS.
Muita gente não fala e não sabe, mas pra trabalhar com polígonos, o Mega Drive é muito melhor que o Super Nintendo, e esse jogo serve muito bem de exmplo pra mostrar as diferenças. É uma característica de hardware, tem coisas que um é melhor, outro pior e vice versa.
Os dois jogos são bons, mas se for pra escolher, eu fico com a do Mega Drive.
Ótimo vídeo como sempre, abraço.
verdade...muita gente não fala e não sabe, mas na internet é bem diferente.
Verdade mesmo, o mega drive tem bem mais capacidade de usar polígonos do que o snes. O maior exemplo está no jogo não-lançado Resq, onde as fases bônus são totalmente em 3d e batem de frente com o Starfox sem o uso de chips auxiliares
@@bafodoroulffeliz1653 Em Lawnmower Man foi bem diferente 🤔
Snes version is awful, car looks like its flying with no shadow
the 68000 is a powerhouse
The super nes version is boring
sega ass blast processing sound very strong in this game
You gotta be sniffling baby powder!! What does Motorola 68000(blast process) gotta do with sounding very strong😅😂😂😂
@@statiz23 sega farts very strong
@@lw7918the console was created on synthesizer era bro...😂
The super Nintendo version doesn't!
No es necesario el chip Super Fx, la version de Nigel Mansell IndyCar para snes es un claro ejemplo de que era posible hacer casi lo mismo siempre y cuando los programadores le sacaran provecho al hardware.
O do Mega pode escolher a visão e tem cockpit, ganha fácil pra mim.
A versão de SNES é mais bonita, mas a versão de Mega Drive é muito mais impressionante por utilizar poligonos o que era uma novidade pra época e raro de se ver nesses consoles.
A versão do snes é mais bonita em fazer feio diante ao mega kkkk
Lawnmower Man tem polígonos
very educational. Thanks !
By “3D engine” surely you mean sprite scaling. Road Rash also uses sprite scaling, hence the choppy frame rate. There are some 3D objects but it’s not a 3D engine.
This is the engine also used in Kawasaki Challenge. The SNES version of that game also has some 3D objects but less than the Mega Drive version and no sprite scaling or as advanced track markings.
I think the original F1 game has the best frame rate simply because the programmers were better. The rain effect is a minor load on the cpu.
I'm pretty sure that the road in Road Rash is polygonal.
Genesis and Snes can't do "Sprite Scalling"
@@JoseMarques9090 they can but it uses the cpu so frame rates are usually choppy. Not always though - check out the gnomes on stage 3 of The Adventures of Batman and Robin on the Genesis. The SNES not so much. But Outlander does pull it off. Then of course, the Genesis version of this game.
@@iwanttocomplain What about art of fighting 2 on Snes?
@@JoseMarques9090 good example
MD version is impressive, wow
Esse é um jogão. Entendo vc também ter ficado obcecada nele. Esses gráficos são lindos...
Qual? de SMD ou de SNES?
@@hopetagulos os dois, na verdade. Mas o do SMD eu joguei no console.
@@hopetagulosA versão do Mega, em especial a anterior.
@@NegoClau conheci a de SNES no console; a de SMD no emulador.
@@fellipealcantara3191 O _F1,_ o anterior, um dos melhores jogos de simulador de corrida da "era 16 bit", considero. Acho que só perde pra _F1: Beyond of the Limits_ (Sega CD). Para 3°, no podium: _Nigel Mansell: WC_ (SNES).
Vey nice! thx
Sega genesis version is perfect!
Genesis - real scaling and rotation, + 3D objects. And in the car perspective. And fast.
Snes - looks fun but clearly a different game and far less impressive.
Love the 3d objects on side of the road on the mega drive. The SNES is moving around a lot of sprites. This is not a 3d engine. The cars are sprites drawn multiple sizes. Road rash is also not a 3d engine. It does use some software based scaling and runs horribly because of it.
Não sei o que comprometeu mais a versão do SNES, se a falta da engine 3D ou da visão de dentro do carro. Para quem jogou esse jogo essa visão traseira tira totalmente a imersão.
Essa história de cancelamento por falta de performance é o tipo da história verídica retirada de blog seguista 😂
Interessante a versão do super Nintendo e bem simples mas bem rápida a versão do mega drive e muito bonita graficamente o que deixa o jogo mais lento acho q fica
a gosto pessoal então digo se quer
um jogo rápido vá de SUPER NINTENDO se quer uma versão mais bonita nos gráficos vá de MEGA DRIVE o importante é jogar
e ser feliz mas para mim eu fico
e dou a vitória a versão do mega drive por levar o hardware ao limite
e sem chip especial o que é incrível
para um vídeo game de 1988🎮
Para los que en verdad pudimos jugar la versión de mega drive, colocar ese juego en modo simulación, llevaba la consola a unos niveles de velocidad injugables, era y es super rápido como si quisieran que nos aprendieramos de memoria las pistas como la única opción para jugarlo. Durante esa generación no ví un juego que logrará mover a tal velocidad todos esos Sprites
What were they thinking with the SNES version?
To make an average looking racing game.
They were thinking they needed the money, didn’t have the budget for a new engine where an existing mode 7 one would do, had a release schedule to meet, and didn’t want to spend extra on a SuperFX chip. Someone could have made the game better for SNES, but they didn’t, and probably not for arbitrary reasons.
There's 3d like polygon tunneling on the MD version. MD version also sounds more like an F1 car.
Caramba a versão do mega drive é impressionante até chuva tem, sem dúvidas a do mega é muito melhor.
the super Nintendo version looked like an 8-bit game,
close to sega genesis version.
Sega version all the way
Pero la Megadrive era capaz de hacer scaling por hardware? lo habrán hecho por software, ¿no?. Menudo pepino de CPU que tenía la Megadrive
SNES could do the engine that genesis is doing without a superfx chip. SNES cpu is comparable to the genesis cpu despite the clock speed difference, it would have to be coded to the snes and use the hirom cart or else the snes is not running at full clocks.
The Snes version is just a bad port or version, since the SNES can do better.
Tl/dr: It's up to a good developer to get the most out of the system.
Estás muy equivocado.
Yeah, no. The MD CPU was better than the Snes one for arithmetic (and thus polygonal) calculations. Why do you think every single non-chipped polygonal Snes game runs worse than their MD counterpart? All devs were lazy?
@@StanislaoMoulinsky79 Not exactly, the genesis does have a sight clockspeed advantage and some math advantages but it’s not that big.
The Snes 65C816 is modified with addition of 16-bit multiplication and division units, which the stock doesn’t have.
65C816 is more efficient than 68000 heck the 6502 can be faster per clock or when clock to the same levels, but the 68000 has a lot more experienced coders and board support. It’s in a lot computers, arcades, and embedded platforms.
Yes devs for those 3d polygonal snes made bad software, especially if it was Atari port pawned off to 3rd party dev or if the main platform was genesis development. They’re won’t lazy, they had either no time or experience or both usually.
Especially something like Race Driven on Snes was just really awful code proven by overclocking and efforts to improve it.
@@StanislaoMoulinsky79Lawnmower Man
Teus vídeos são muito bons ,mas seria mais aceitos se tu colocace uma natação nas especificações , só uma dica
Blast processing!
Nigel Mansel do snes vale por todos. Melhor game de f1 para os 16 bits.
Veja _F1_ (antecessor deste jogo, do vídeo, Sega Mega Drive) e _F1: Beyond of the Limits,_ (Sega CD), talvez mude de ideia.
Wow, its not even close, the SNES version looks downright boring, even when compared to a lot of other 2D racers!
I am sad the Mega Drive version didn't get a release on the Genesis here in the States, I'd really like to see how it compares to the first game by playing it myself.
S.N.E.S. has a nice sky blend of color but i think the Mega Drive is the better version and there are a couple of annoying SEGA fan boys in the comments arent doing the game any favors
Sega's console did it once again!
Like for the previous Mega Drive game, you're talking about a "3D engine" while it's not. It's not because there are some polygonal objects displayed that it means it's a 3D engine. It's very much a 2D engine, with some kind of sprite scaling and rotation. A 3D engine would allow you to turn around and drive the track in reverse (which this engine can't technically do), and without an additional chip like the SVP, the frame rate would be way too choppy for a racing game (look at LHX Attack Chopper for an example of how a real 3D engine runs on the stock Mega Drive). The game is still impressive for a Mega Drive game though. It's just not a 3D engine. Pseudo-3D I can agree with ;)
Also, would it be possible that the frame rate is significantly worse in the sequel because it's a PAL (50Hz) version, and you probably tested the NA (60Hz) version of the previous game ?
A comparison of both games in their PAL version would be nice :)
@@danwarb1 That part, yes. The rest, no.
He also said that Road Rash uses a 3D engine, but Road Rash doesn't even use polygons. 😅
Si además de eso hubiesen usado el chip SVP, impresiona lo que era capaz de hacer la Genesis sin ayudas
Genesis Does!!! Выглядит действительно потрясающе!!!
Tem vários, aliás a maioria kkkkkk
Os jogos que foram lançados separadamente para ambos os consoles, todos são melhores no Super Nintendo
Diferencia Abismal... la que tenían de procesador....
Blast Processing right there...
Not the super Nintendo version!
No sé, tuve ambos sistemas más en su tiempo era difícil ( y muy caro) conseguir muchos juegos, el de génesis me parece inovador para su tiempo, pero los cuadros por segundo hacen que odie su framerate, el de SuperNintendo me parece un juego de carreras muy bien echo pero para los que entonces eran niños.
You conclude your video with the very problem I see in the comments section of your videos all the time. "...these 2 versions and the capabilities of their respective systems." You can't conclude much of anything about the capabilities of the Genesis or SNES from this comparison, yet people try to all the time and it makes no sense. Stop choosing shoddy games from inept companies. I would also add that often times a game will be made for one system and then handed off to another company to be ported to something else. If a game wasn't built from the ground up for a particular piece of hardware it isn't going to be very good either. You would honestly be better off comparing what are considered to be some of the best Genesis racing games with some of the best SNES racing games.
SEGA
Snes doesn't look as good as Mega Drive obviously due to hardware limitations.
Genesis does!!!!!!!!
¿Alguien pudo dar bien esa maldita última curva? Esa junto a una de las horquillas de Magny Cours, Estoril y Spa siempre fueron mi punto débil, hasta el día de hoy ja ja.
Sega all the way!
Genesis wins
Thank your parents then.
SEGA !!!!
Weather change on snes? Nah
Yes, because i have never seen an snes game with weather changes 😂
@@jsr734 Almost all platforming games on Snes have wheater effects that genesis doesn't 🤷
@@JoseMarques9090 Correct. Wich makes it impressive they implemented it on Genesis. And left you WTF happened with the Snes version.
@@jsr734 Bad port
Man, that SNES version is just plain embarrassing.
I Think Genesis will be Win bc. of 3D Graphics
Me gusta mas la versión Sega Génesis 😊👍
Sem dúvidas a versão sega está melhor
Mega drive é superior ao super Nintendo em vários aspectos, por isso brigou de igual para igual e sem nenhum chip adicional
Sei não heim. Mega Drive não tem nem a capacidade de rodar um simples Turtles in Time.
Veja Alien Soldier, misadventure of flink, adventure of Batman e Robin, thunder force IV, Gunstar heroes, red zone entre outros.
O próprio Turtles roda mais fluido, zoon dos inimigos na tela seria possível tb. Embora não nativo do sistema, o console poderia simular efeitos bem interessantes
@@cahmercierTenta aí lançar um Turtles in Time pro mega. Os melhores programadores até hoje não conseguem. Desejo Boa Sorte
O lado ruim destes jogos de Fórmula 1 é que a jogabilidade deles não são para todos, nunca consigo fazer o carrinho parar quieto nas pistas é péssimo demais, bem falo isto por mim, até porque a pessoas que jogam isso majestosamente bem, único game neste estilo que eu até que me dou bem é no Virtua Racing - mesmo assim, só concluo a primeira pista, e na dificuldade mais fácil, como gostaria de um game de F1 com uma jogabilidade mais arcade.
SMD Walks it way better
À época eu até que jogava muito bem esse jogo, não sei se consigo fazer o mesmo hoje em dia. O segredo está na configuração do carro (saber qual aerofólio usar na pista e usar a marcha manual) para ter o controle da velocidade e estabilidade do carro.
Funny how the situation was reversed for nigel mansell. Md wins of course.
MD圧勝！(*´ω｀*)ノ
Quando o jogo fica pior dá pra falar todas aquelas coisas sobre o poder do sistema, falta de recursos, memória e o caramba mas esse do super nintendo já foi cara de pau, não é possível
we dont need no mode 7....maybe we do need mode 7.
No mode 7. That's why Genesis can't run Turtles in Time
São jogos distintos. A versão do Mega é melhor, mas o fps baixo incomoda.
That SNES port is horrible. I suspect that because the genesis had more raw power in CPU and an already developed 3D engine, it was easier to make the Genesis version look good. I suspect it would be a different story if the SuperFX chip was used for the SNES port.
It also always confused me why the same publisher had different intros and music for the same games on different systems. I understand that the tools to produce the content were different, but you would think they would work off the same basic roadmap or storyboard and share assets where possible. Instead, they always had entirely different teams working on these projects. Most of the platformer games got this right, but other ports were so different it made me wonder why they couldn’t come up with a better way to release the same title for multiple systems.
Genesis CPU is not more powerful. Just has a higher clock
@@JoseMarques9090 Genesis CPU was easier to work with. Look up interviews with devs from companies like Treasure.
@@NotaPizzaGRL True. Most PCs at the time used a hardware similar to Genesis. SNES cpu was used in a single Apple PC. That't why there is a easy approach programming tool available to make games for Genesis. But not for Snes.
@@NotaPizzaGRL Being less complex to work with, doesn't mean is faster, though
@@JoseMarques9090 It does mean that it's easier to get better performance out of it though.
Aquí si que se nota el procesador de megadrive.. mucho más rápido que el de snes...
Megadrive me gusta mas
Buenos Aires with green mountains. ok
Ok... for a F1 game that came out in 1995, the SNES game is clearly a joke ! If I want a car game on SNES that don't relies on mode 7 capacities, I would rather go playing Top Gear that came out 3 years before.
A versão de snes parece de game boy comparada ao do mega drive, mega wins
Essa versão de SNES é vergonhosa, que coisa ridícula e capada.
very rare to see a better megadrive version than snes, which is very shitty here !!
Genesis is more advanced, but plays very bad. Tried it a dozen times, it's just not good to play.
SNes is more of the same Top Gear-like game it has in buckets, very difficult to miss with such a known recipe.
Snes console is more advanced than Sega
If you want a better formula one game on snes. How about Formula ZERO. F-zero.
Snes sin chip adicional en este tipo de juegos no tenía nada que hacer.. estos motores gráficos 3d en snes imposible...