RWBY vs AceOps: A Bout in Lunacy
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2024
- This video is my honest critique of the RWBY vs AceOps fight in Volume 7 Chapter 12 and in a lot of ways, the series as a whole.
If you like what I’ve talked about here, stay tuned for more content in the future.
Also if you like hearing from me, please check out The Newtypes Podcast where I chat with my friends Lonecrit, CodeBlazeFate and occasional guests: / @thenewtypespodcast
By the way, shoutout to those guys as well as everyone else who has helped me and cheered me on in my first product. Thank you.
Twitter: / youngkaiser3
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Music is as follows:
Almost Blue - Infinite Ryvius OST
Not for Nothing - Otis Mcdonald
Jojo part 5 opening
Tokyo Ghoul opening
King - copyright free music
Death Note Light's theme Yosuko remix
Tokyo - copyright free lofi
Cowboy Bebop Rush (Von Thief jazztastic remix)
Durarara Hohoemi no Kage remix
Eminem Killshot instrumental
Cosimo Frogg jazz
Death Note Light's theme Rude remix
Killshot 90's boom bap remix
Touch my coffee (without eminem version)
Watch World Trigger
Sure
nah....RWBY is more fun, and there's also RWBY Chibi
Comparing the likes of Rwby to something like World Trigger is so unfair. World Trigger blows Rwby out of the water.
@@tigerfalco True but not enough people are watching World Trigger.
@@KaiserShounen 100% agree.
This now confirms my belief that fanfiction writers can write the story better than the authors themselves
We've known that to be a fact for years tbh.
Can confirm since I read a couple
Sadly True.
"That's an encouraging thought"-Gandalf
You say that like it is hard.
I hadn't noticed that before but Marrow's line to Weiss of 'you Schnees are used to get what you want' is sooo weird considering he is like... under Winter's command there and they seem to have a good relationship. What the hell.
Now you're getting it lmao
Under winters command?
That was in v8, not v7.
Do you watch the show, or not?
Marrow didn't have a choice
...Ironwood ordered him to obey.
Till he rebelled
@@eren34558 he didn't have a choice. And chose to rebel. I think that's called a choice.
That is just non sensical the way the writers write their stories.
“Marrow, aka the best Faunus character in the entire show that didn’t give birth to Blake”
Nah, Tyrian’s the best, as far as I can recall he didn’t make any dumb decisions.
You know what... you're probably right lol
Hey Michael!
Long time
Glad you found Kaiser's channel. He and I've been friends for a while now and I hope you enjoy the content of his you've seen.
@@KaiserShounen Honestly Tyrian is the only character to come out of all this retaining his original charm, manically laughing throughout that absolute clownshow of a "three way fight turned 2 v 1" against clover.
I have to agree. He is one character (faunus) that has stayed true to his nature from his first introduction. And has seemingly been written true to form consistently.
As apposed to other characters who's lore, characteristics and motivations have been tweaked, bent, broken to suit a narrative or make a scene work when ever plot demands it.
In that ludicrous Qrow v Tyrian v Clover + Robyn debacle in V7x12, he (and maybe Robyn as she was always a stupid character) were the only characters acting true to form.
@@bubbajoe117 LOL, didn't scroll down far enough to see your post. I pretty much repeated your sentiment.
Just because a master trained you does not mean your at the same level as them, their not going to teach you everything in 3 months, your not going to learn everything from your mentor in 3 months.
Not to mention it goes both ways. AceOps should have learned R/W/BY's strengths and weakness as well during their time in 'training'.
@@DocMicrowave That is also true.
But anime/shonen lol.
Bleach: "can't beat me even in a thousand years to get your bankia"
No excuse but bleach mmmmm at least showed ichigos progression. Gawd damn pay off was well received
@@wb7585 I mean, in Bleach's defense and to it's credit, Ichigo flat out used a method only Yoruichi and Kisuke new about so he actually had an established explanation as to how he gained bankai, but even then he didn't master it because that takes a decade no matter what and barely won because White took him off guard...RWBY on the other hand...didn't go to that same amount of effort justifying the power creep sadly
That's right. Plus, Ruby and co had a lot experience in combat, camaraderie, cunning, perseverance and ingenuity during their separation and during their long trek to Atlas. So they have a few tricks of their own that the Ace-Ops never saw them use. They didn't go through hell and back for nothing.
What really bugs me about the Ace Ops is that Volume 8 frames them as cowards for ganging up against Penny, when...
1) That's still better teamwork than Team RWBY
2) Penny is a robot supersoldier who just became a Maiden
3) Jaune, Ren, Nora, Oscar, Emerald, and Winter would all later gang up on Ironwood, WITHOUT HIS WEAPON, and don't get called cowardly for it.
It’s crazy.
I feel like its more that they're fighting Penny in particular, since she's such a sweet little pumpkin and best girl. If you're fighting her, you are unquestionably the bad guy, but they still act like they're the heroes.
Because it literally doesn’t matter what Team RWBY does. They aren’t ever painted as the bad guys. They all complained and vilified Ironwood for the plan to tell the world about Salem.. then do it themselves the next season and no one says a word.
Not to mention the fact that Team RWBY have a long history of not fighting fair lol.
@@brainflash1Yeah, plus, they took advantage of her weaknesses by playing with her emotions and lying about Winter's condition just to undermind her confidence and guilt trip her into surrendering. I'm really appalled that they did that just to get her to surrender.
Yeah, power scaling is real in this show. Particularly in the last 3 or so volumes.
Plot decides who wins or looses a fight.
Not established character powers, skill, or strength.
What gets me is that Ruby didn't even fight, she danced around until Harriet ran face first into a wall, so hard, it broke her aura and knocked her out at the same time.
Honestly, the fact she didn't suffer severe head trauma from crashing head first into that ice wall at top speed is ....well I should say miracle, but it's just bad writing
@@TheAnonyomusGuy Aura is one hell of a drug. Also Permanent damage as a result of traumatic injuries besides amputation does not exist in fiction.
I mean... why swing at a target that is no longer there. Neither side can hit the other, but hare needs to spam her semblance.
Let the Hare tire herself out overusing her semblance, and then go for the knockout. Or let Weiss get the KO, that works too.
And yes, its terrible. Rwby fights should not make sense. They should be absolute spectacles, where logic does not apply, and rule of cool happens every 3 seconds. Which kinda did happen with Yang and Blake vs Elm and vine (that Vine knockout is absolute madness, and elm's double slam is also amazing).
bso
@@Loispealz34 Ironwood would probably disagree
@@TheAnonyomusGuy I mean...
Yeah. so does cinder to an extent.
On an unrelated note, I think Vine and Harriet's semblances were made to test out how Green Lantern's constructs and Flash's super speed would work in the Maya engine.
If this was their test drive, ooooh boy lol
The worst part about Marrow's semblance usage at the start of the fight is that they had a counter for it in Weiss.
Like, having the fight start out with Marrow freezing/starting to freeze them, but Weiss gets 'em out of it with an ice wall, summon, glyph, or something of all three.
They had the means to plug that hole, but they didn't take it.
Giggity
@@KaiserShounen Marrow was also holding back, dumbass.
He literally said as much in the 8th volume.
Also, he can only use his semblance at one direction at a time.
Finally, Schnee vs Faunus?
Weren't people wanting that?
Oh, I guess people just want to complain
The writers also tried to come up with excuses to suggest that he can't just do that at the start of a fight, only to have him do that in Volume 8 to the Ace Ops. So they were either lying or they're stupid.
Power scaling and stupid for plot tricks, to force a certain outcome. Lore and history completely ignored.
Plot needs R/W/BY to win - Marrow does not use his Semblance when it would count. (Made worse by AceOps also fighting like first year cadets.)
Plot needs RWBNP to loose - Marrow does use his Semblance when it counts. (Not to mention the rest of the AceOps fighting like the team they had been hyped to be. They even technically took down a Maiden!)
Weiss being a counter to Marrow? Maybe. Just a matter of who gets their semblance in play first. And Weiss's knight had better not be in the same direction as Weiss when Marrow uses his semblance.
Advantage would go to Marrow since his semblance is instantaneous and Weiss needs a moment to summon the knight.
Stuff like this was rampant through V7 and V8.
For example the Cinder v Penny fights.
Fight 1 - Plot needs Cinder to more or less win. (She did destroy the Aura transfer machine. She did contribute to Fria's death. She did escape. And she did get the lamp.) Therefore Penny does not use or forgets her lasers.
Fight 2 - Plot needs Penny to win. Penny remembers she has lasers and takes done Cinder in one strike.
Fight 3 - Plot needs Cinder to win. Penny forgets she has lasers. (Or any maiden equivalent of them.)
My favorite example.
Ruby has NEVER had a problem flashing Cinder with Silver Eyes at EVERY previous encounter with her. She first flashed Cinder in V3x12 when she didn't even have the training or even knew what the Silver Eyed power was!
Until the last episode of V8, where plot needs Cinder to have a big win. So, NO Silver Eyes. Despite having multiple opportunities to flash her.
Excuses from certain parts of the fandom?
- She didn't have time to get the Eyes up.
- She was too tired.
- She was distracted.
- She couldn't concentrate.
- yada yada yada
None of these excuses was ever a factor when it came to flashing Cinder.
To further the ludicrousness of that situation in V8v14. Cinder Wasn't Even Afraid Of RUBY's EYES in that final fight! I guess she read the script and knew that would be a non-issue.
@@twinodoom How about both.
This is what grind my gears about the ACE flops. Eddie( a writer) comes up with these characters because CRWBY wanted the team to learn under pro huntsmen (sorry Qrow your 20+ yrs of experience don't count) but you don't even see most the learn anything from the Ace flops(as you stated). Its not only the fight that should not exist. Its these characters themselves because frankly they are just fluff.
Let team RWBY actually fights the VILLIANS. Ya know like Ren and Nora vs Cinder so we actually see how they felt about the death of their teammate.
Or let us see the fight against Emerald and Mercury, to see how they have improved since the Tournament, but noOo. Let's have the guys that toyed with the students left right and center be defeated off-screen.
Poor Qrow. Once a cool and collected, voice of wisdom and knowledge to Ruby and Yang.
Deconstructed and Nerfed to be turned into shipping fodder and eventually killed off. (It will happen.)
In fact, it is note worthy to see that after V6, there are NO adult characters that can be seen as mentors, or wise and knowledgeable. The kiddies know everything there is to know now and are always "right". (Or will eventually be proven right.)
Adult characters throughout V7 & V8 are depicted as obstacles, ignorant, arrogant, stupid, useless, burdensome, dangerous, or just plain evil. Almost no redeeming qualities.
I would say Penny's father comes close, but in the end he was just an adult who is holding her back.
I hate Ruby's smug look when she says "Then you trained us." Reminds me of Cinder
She then back tracks and starts fumbling around trying to convince them why fighting each other is dumb. Such a dumb set of character writing.
Winter training Weiss had so much room for interesting interactions between the sisters.
"You got fanfiction with a budget" had me laughing out loud.😂
The fact that two teams instead of fighting as teams instead did solo fights while also intentionally matching up against similar abilities instead of trying to counter is kind of hilarious
Like the speed demons have the easiest time against other people but they both try to outspeed each other instead? Why tho?
That's something I was very disappointed with, the lack of team coordination in fights throughout the show. I still love the volume 2 fight against Roman in the mech, the way they combined their abilities/weapons in creative ways was neat and that team focused fighting sequence style had a lot of potential that was never really expanded upon.
Out of spite. Harriet is easily the most immature of the Ace Ops, and Ruby taunted her. Also I think the idea was to have the Ace Ops go up against the one they mentored (not that they bothered to show us any of that) out of a sense of personal responsibility: if anyone is going to take my student down, it will be me.
@@muskrat5oup144 I guess one on one fights are easier to choreograph. Remember all the fight scenes in Volumes 1-3 were directed by Monty.
Just furthers the point that RT doesn’t know how to do fights, Ace Ops were trash and Team RWBY learned literally nothing. They ALL fought the exact same as they always do. Ruby runs around, Weiss relies and spams summons, Blake is trash, Yang turns on her free win semblance. Nobody did anything different then I would have expected lol.
@@brainflash1Not to mention, Ruby was trying to wear Harriet down. Ace-Ops may have trained them but there are some tricks that Team RWBY never showed them in training. Team RWBY has had a lot of combat experience from their journey to Atlas. They didn't go through hell and back for nothing.
The conclusion of V7 saw me cancel my First Sub.
The ludicrous R/W/BY vs AceOps fight was just one of many issues I had with the show.
Man what they should have done is get team RWBY to help the people that ironwood isn't helping without getting in ironwoods way, and then ironwood could be shown as paranoid when he sends the ace ops cause he thinks their trying to stop him. Boom there problem solved
There were so many ways to handle that. I would've gone for various groups in the government manipulating Ironwood thus creating a bubble of uncertainty around him. Thus when RWBY arrives, he's distrustful because of all the lies he's been told and can't react well.
There, sympathetic and a point about governments being run by parties not interested in its people is made
Blake's aura shatters in the fight against Elm and Vine, but she immediately uses her semblance afterwards, believe it or not
I don't think it shattered. It did shimmer which is a sign that it was weakened and she was low. But the fact that she kept going like she wasn't was dumb.
@@KaiserShounen If Aura shimmers, it's a sign of it breaking or a semblance effect activating.
Someone like Adam has his aura shimmer whenever he uses Moonslice.
Blake has never showcased the ability before, so it's most certainly not shimmering.
"Shimmering" has never really been used as a way of the "aura is weak", only that it's breaking or a unique effect of semblance.
It's why we never once see Jaune's aura shimmer unless it's his semblance or the Nuckelavee, because he just simply has way too much aura that the idea of his aura breaking is honestly absurd.
@@MysticalArcane im pretty sure the writers have said that sometimes shimmering on a hit means that someones aura is low, not that its breaking. Just close to breaking. We see that in Qrows fight against Tyrian for example. it didn't completely break cause he was still able to fight
@@KaiserShounen In Qrow's fight, it can be explained away with Qrow manipulating his own semblance.
"According to Kerry Shawcross, he can also choose to amplify his Semblance in a fight[2] to amplify the chance of his opponent getting hurt, in which case it uses Aura."
@@MysticalArcane *bangs head against the wall*
I hate aura so much. Im pretty sure that there was something about Aura shimmering when its low.
that would've been great if marrow used "stay" on team rwby before the fight even started, but ruby kept moving because she already initiated her super-speed semblance, and it gave her the chance to take marrow down. thus the fight could continue without making the aceops look moronic.
That'd be a start for sure.
Well volume eight had Marrow freeze Elm, Vine, and Harriet, but Harriet in particular had already used her semblance. Also Vine swiping Ruby, Weiss, and Blake off the walkway and him containing a nuke makes the fight worse in retrospect.
Marrow outright says "we're trying to capture them, not kill them," What easier way to capture them than by freezing them before the fight even started!?!
Before you write a story you plan a beginning, middle and end before you write a story, you don’t write a bunch of cliches you don’t really know together or you don’t plan things after you write, you plan thing before you write. What I’m trying to say in order for your story to be good, you have to do like a rough prototype of story before you make the actual story.
RWBY as a whole feels like a rough prototype.
@@heyarnold7256 Pretty much yeah, it’s like rwby never got out of the prototype stage of write, basically putting the rough drafts on screen.
@@heyarnold7256it seems like a rough draft that was forgotten that it was a rough draft and put through anyway.
@@heyarnold7256 More like a rushed prototype
it is funny how Marrow could've just incapacited Weiss from the start and very easily mind you if he had simply... idk pointed at her with his sembleance but I guess the writers forgot about it
Edit: Oh you mentioned it in the video... rip
How does a team of well-trained military special forces lose to 4 Mary Sues?!
Because plot
I think that’s how.
It is because they are Mary Sues.
It could be because team RWBY is more talented and quicker learners, a veteran vs prodigy fight. Which would make sense as why would the be the protagonist if they were lacking in talent, and it volume 8, we are far enough into the series to make RWBY effective, through not far enough to have them remember all there moves.
@@brendenhawley2225Team RWBY fight like trash. The same exact they always do. Blake and Yang fight together, Weiss spams summons and ruby runs around. Prodigy’s my a** lol.. over here running away leaving civilians die.. oh but it’s cool when they do it lol
Y'know, my biggest gripe with this fight is not that it doesn't make sense. It's the fact that it even exists.
WHY in the fuck are we having this fight in the first place? WHY did this even need to be a thing? WHY did the writers decide we needed to fight the Ace-Ops instead of THE ACTUAL FUCKING VILLAINS OF THE SHOW??? Thats what drives me nuts. This conflict wasn't just stupid it just straight up didn't need to happen AT ALL. Same thing with that useless political subplot. They could've given us something else that actually added to the story and the characters. Atlas being forcibly made the enemies here harms the story far more than helps it.
Because the writers wants to say that RWBY's friendship is want make them so special.
Ren gives this explanation here 26:50 even though he never saw the fight in the first place.
Yes, yes, let your anger flow through you...
Because once the writers get an idea in their head, they will move heaven and earth to destroy the story to make it happen.
Personally I think the conflict with Ironwood was a good subplot overall, even if the specific details were...a bit of a mess. The underarching theme of team RWBY wanting to save everyone even though it might put more people in danger vs Ironwood acknowledging his limitations and trying to save those he can while sacrificing others was a great direction to take the show in IMO. That sense of moral ambiguity should have been focused on more rather than trying to force Ironwood to be a straight up villain.
Not to mention, Salem's whole strategem is dividing people and causing internal strife so I don't think that having Atlas being an enemy is a bad thing necessarily. That whole arc could be great if it was rewritten properly. And honestly, just remove the ace ops characters altogether. Or at the very least, don't give them nearly as much screentime because no one cares about them. Especially Clover, the way they tried to make his death so dramatic was just... 0awkward. Like, was I supposed to feel sad about this boring guy that we've only known for a single volume?
@@muskrat5oup144 Thing is it was completely unnecessary for the ideas they wanted to get across but it also had poor timing. The main reason the whole Salem divides people idea doesn't work here is that Salem implied she was going to invade Atlas brought a huge army to their doorstep and instead sat on her ass. Subtly doesn't work if your main villain has just pulled up with a big ass whale monster. Now is the time Salem should have been acting directly. They were hyping up her arrival for years and for them to play the lets pit them against each other card at that point just makes everything fall flat.
If they wanted to really do an arc about trust and division you know what would have been smarter? Having Salem have her own secret agents hidden in Atlas. People like the Ace-Ops or Jacques could have been revealed to be agents of Salem. The very thought that her soldiers might be hidden in plain sight amongst them would have given Team RWBY an actual real reason to distrust everyone because they don't know who they may be working for.
Instead they want us to believe that Team RWBY distrusts this guy despite the fact that he's done nothing but be open and honest with them. The whole arc is a mess and it's themes just don't work.
not related to the fight, but when I watched Marrow's scenes for the first time I realized he was made the "loyal" one b/c he is a dog. And he's also named after a part of a bone...and dogs eat/chew bones. Feels...really off.
Also his semblance has the prerequisite of him having to shout “Stay!” (like a dog).
@@thomasraines1396 ....obedience and commands
@@amaryllis7482it’s so weird.
So....I looked up Marrow's fandom wiki, and it turns out he's a Faunus...
And maybe the writers are trying to do something with how Atlas is racist torwards Faunus, but that wiki also states that Robyn refers to Marrow as "Wags." Which means that Robyn would also fall under the category of being racist torwards a Faunus.
Funny, sarcastic, competent and informative.
Sure I'll subscribe.
Hell, the reds and blues used actual team work multiple times, nearly every fight
All of this started because Team RWBY just had to lie to Ironwood about Salem’s immortality curse and of course, leak information to Robyn about the Amity Project. If it was written better, the Ace Ops would have won this fight and thrown Team RWBY in jail.
Is it bad that it does have a lot of writing errors, but also had potential to be something really fun?
On a personal level? No enjoy what you want. Critically? Yeah the fact that it could have been better doesn't do it favors lol
That's the worst part.
When it comes to the military you can’t exactly be attached to people.
Which is true. Sure would be nice if the show treated that with respect lol.
@@KaiserShounen That would be nice.
@@KaiserShounen Wait are you saying every band of brothers military story has lied to me.
@@brendenhawley2225 Not exactly. Some attachment is fine and dandy, but it has to be done in ways that are appropriate given time period and other factors.
I always consider that military belief as a double-edge sword because while I understand their reasons but at the same time, they'll treat each other as expendable and replaceable. Attachment can be a weakness AND a strength. Something the Jedi also failed to realize.
God I hate the "then you trained us" phrase so much, BUT I think it COULD potentially work. Imagine if RWBY were so confident and cocky, especially after the fact that AceOps literally "trained" them, that they thought they could stand a chance. Even Ruby feels so empowered that she feels like she can take them out with no effort(which is stupid because that's exactly what happens but anyway), but the moment she attacks and misses, she starts panicking and tries to spin it the whole thing around with "no wait we should be working together", but since she basically accepted the fight, it's too late to flee. Of course, it results in the whole team RWBY losing in a snap of a finger. While I still think that Ruby's cockiness was absolute not-in-character bs in this situation, at least this scenario makes a bit more sense. Also, it could show that it doesn't matter how good of a team you are if you can't stand on your own. I tried
I've watched 4 of ya videos and you love that Ren carrying off Nora clip, it's hilarious how often it makes sense 😭
I like to think that everything after volume 3 is a Heinous Fanfiction that I can put down and rest knowing it isn't canonical whatsoever.
This is all Yang’s blood loss induced fever dream after Adam cut her arm off in Volume 3, she’s just spazzing on the floor.
I know this is about a year old, but I wanted to drop a theory about why I think the Ace-Ops' truly lost.
Like how Qrow's Semblance could bring bad luck to others, Clover's Semblance also affected his teammates. This is what made them the best team in Atlas. However, when Clover was far away from them, they couldn't get affected by his Semblance and therefore couldn't fight at their best. Clover almost literally carried the team (Not saying they're useless without him, just that they unknowingly used Clover as a clutch).
Nice theory. Would be great if that was established in the show.
Not to mention it would be dumb of ironwood to create a top team of pro huntsman that are over reliant on one member. Especially when it wasnt the first time they lost a teammate and they to go on seperate missions all the time
That's...actually a decent theory. Probably the best explanation were gonna get for the outcome of this fight.
That could've been an interesting angle to address in the fight: Actually show them overreaching and getting owned for being careless.
@@brainflash1but that’s not what happened.
"Volume 9 is right around the corner."
One year later ........ LOL
Also, have a good feeling V9 will be the last volume at this point.
Yeah that did not age well lmao
@@KaiserShounen lol, yeah well, couldn't blame you.
RT/CRWBY were not exactly being up front about it. (Out right deception actually.)
Hiding behind pandemic excuses before finally admitting "some" delays were due to resourceses being sapped from production to go into the DC movie project.
Of course there was the reveal late last year that all wasn't exactly fun and good times behind the scenes at the company.
Going into late January now not so much as a peep from CRWBY/RT about a possible air date.
Obviously V9 production has been more of a ........ challenge than they expected.
I wonder what the excuse is this time. 'Further delays due to the triple-demic over the holidays?'
Probably end up announcing an airdate a week before it comes out.
@@DocMicrowave I would assume a lot of it is because literally most of their animation staff is diving out faster than the Titanic lol.
@@KaiserShounen LOL, like I said. A 'challenge'.
Was trying to be conservative and tactful.
But yeah, between that, the company in financial and business trouble, and the very likely multiple rewrites and tweaks V9 has gone under.....
Kinda hard reanimate and re-record when VAs and Staff are abandoning ship.
I wonder how many knew voices we will hear for stand-ins. Or characters that will be just standing around, silent.
I think it is becoming a race. To get RWBY out before the company pulls the plug.
Still trying to wrap my head around how Vine was sent flying forward by an explosion that happened in front of him…
Amazing job man! Glad to see the first video you've been talking about making for so long turned out so spectacularly well done!
Horribly
@@eren34558 So sorry. This was before Danny DeVito started editing 😔
why does kaiser have such rythem in his words once the music start. I don't even know if this was on purpose but it was sooooo satisfying
The more criticisms I see the more I think the whole series should have a rewrite.
Like whatever is the tv series equivalent of scorched earth and a phoenix rising from the ashes reborn.
I don't know...😑
You mean "Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood"
@@brainflash1 I suppose
Still haven't gotten around to watching that😅
@@story_appreciator6666 You REALLY should.
@@brainflash1 it's on the pile
The very large pile
@@brainflash1Yeah it needs a reboot. RWBY Sisterhood. I’d watch that. However FMA03 was still goated unlike this train wreck.
You already know my thoughts. I'm just leaving this here for the algorithm.
Great work. I hope to see whatever you come up with next.
: )
I actually did not remember the names of of the AceOps. And a part of me tries to forget in protest.
"Volume 9 is around the corner"
RT: Well, about that...
RWBY has been inconsistent with the power level from the very beginning, somehow, in a world tournament where the best huntsmen in training meet, almost all the finalists were 1st graders, only CFVY was confirmed to be older that the others and they were eliminated in the semies, and don't make me start with " World destroyer Pyrrah" who also got nerfed against Cinder apparently. Anyways. " FUCK BEES! CHAKA CHAKA CHAKA! FUCK BEES! "
Coco and Yatsuhashi were a victim of the worf effect just there to make Emerald and Mercury look cool.
@@thomasraines1396 For a team with more experience and knowing the possibility that illusionary Semblances exist they should have been a bit more cautious, I mean, one of its members can copy weapons for crying out loud.
@@fernandomalpica1870 it’s crap and hell I don’t even have a problem with them losing I’m pissed with how easily they lost.
@@thomasraines1396 Yeah, even when they try to make things right they screw up somewhere else. That's what happens when your main characters are trash, when the shithole is too deep it sucks everything that gets near it.
@@fernandomalpica1870 it sucks.
To put it in basic words; “The main characters HAVE to win, regardless of any details to say otherwise that they couldn’t.”
It’s just lazy writing…
It does seem the story overall may have epitomized the fight scenes over the whole portrayal of the story.
20:02 you forget, there's no such thing as magic. 😂
I absolutely love the hard slap straight to Miles Luna's non-existent ball sack right in the middle of the video!
I really liked the idea behind RWBY and despite some of the MAJOR flaws in Volumes 1-3, I rather enjoyed the Plot being presented... well except them litterally having the "Villains" steal dust for 2 whole seasons and then forget all about it. Lol.
I know I shouldn't but I kind of give RWBY a free-pass for Volume 4 because their God & Creative Lead Monty Oum (May He Rest In Peace) had passed away suddenly and kind of left Mile's and Kerry kind of lost in a complex world that wasn't their "brain child".
But Litterally everything after Volume 4 is so bad that my Garbage Can threw itself in the trash just to avoid being filled with the dumpster fire that is Volumes 5 to Present.
Thoughts?
I mean, similar. But in my opinion, the same flaws the show has had were always present in the early volumes. The better choreography and lighter vibe simply made it tolerable. Which is why despite how impactful volume 3's second half was, the shift in tone and scope was a mistake. His brain child or not, none of them had properly set things up that were necessary for the kind of story they wanted to tell work. If it was all dumb fun afterwards and not shitty social commentary this wouldn't be an issue. In retrospect, volume 4 is even worse now because this was a great trance to make the shift smooth.
Always liked your comments on Fatman's and Celtic's vids. Good to see some of your own content.
Wow you were around from way back lol. I barely remember those old comments anymore. Glad to see ya.
What videos in particular did you see my comments from?
@@KaiserShounen Oh, good grief, I can't remember that far back, lmao. I remember you showing up during the Reaction vids and the overall Review vids, but nothing more specific than that.
@@Jacob-hx7kk its cool
3:35 3:42 Which undercuts Clover’s statement that "Your top priority is Amity Tower that means protecting supply runs from grimm and bandits and protecting the site itself”
5:24 5:47 The only way that can be explained the Ace Ops were taking separate missions, but this is just head canon
6:01 6:11 Don’t forget Ruby said that after having a mental breakdown the chapter prior
7:35 7:40 Robyn Hill is literally a magnet for stupidity in Vol. 7
8:01 8:18 In hindsight, Ironwood’s plan was a lot better than Ruby’s plan
9:42 9:45 Here’s some additional info., Kiersi Burkhart said in the Vol. 7 C11 commentary "We worked really hard this season to make this whole progression of Ironwood's descent into villainy like make subtle, make it make sense, and yeah"
10:04 10:09 Really deflates Ruby’s smug one-liner
11:34 11:43 Given the fact team RWBY has been in Atlas for a few weeks as Pietro stated (V7 C7) "If Maria hadn't offered to help me these past weeks I'd likely collapse by now"
13:23 13:33 A conversation in the middle of a fight reminds me of JNPR vs BRNZ
16:32 16:43 Don’t forget supplementary material that fills in the plot. Miles states in the Vol. 7 C3 commentary “We had this idea that you know Adam umm as terrible person as he was when he was younger potentially got into an argument with someone at an SDC place and someone grabbed a brand and just let him have it and that let to the injury that we saw on his face um in Vol. 6”
17:34 17:40 Ruby’s plan is to take a risk and the plot will magically solve itself
18:13 18:17 Here’s some additional information on this fight, Kiersi Burkhart said in the Vol. 7 C13 commentary “It’s just that it showcased there teamwork these four have worked together for so long and have an emotional connection that allows them to anticipate each others moves in a really powerful way”
19:44 20:01 To quote RWBYtuber that defended this fight “So pretty cut and dry. On top of being THE HEROES team RWBY is just a better team” and paper-thin evidence to support that claim.
20:58 21:26 Yang plants eight bombs onto the rock but when we see the bombs again there are nine on Blake. Where did the ninth bomb come from my guess is that this is an animation error. Also the fact that Elm just stands there and doesn’t help Vine at all.
22:42 22:51 I’m reaching here but team RWBY did threaten Qrow in the beginning of Vol. 6 without hesitating so it’s not out of the question that they’d be so impulsive
26:50 26:58 I guess Ren doesn’t know what “show don’t tell” is and had to give exposition dump with his new semblance
Maybe RWBY Arrowfell could help Vol. 7 as a whole ;)
1. Yes
2.No because its contradicted by the fact that when they are introduced whats highlighted the most is their level of teamwork. So if they were mostly effective in individual missions, they should've established that.
3. Forgot about that but yeah
4. Correct
5. Based
6. Well... It went well in the first 11 chapters lol
7. Yep
8. I honestly forgot about that Pietro quote but yeah that makes this shit even worse
9. I forgot that fight existed honestly
10. What... where do I begin with this? I have so many questions XD. Namely, WHY THE FUCK WASN'T THIS SAID IN THE FUCKING SHOW!?
11. Exactly
12. *Insert Bender laugh clip*
13. *Insert Bender laughing harder*, also which RWBYtuber said that?
14. 10/10 fight structure
15. 10/10 consistency, contrived character action begets more contrived character actions
16. *Insert 'Look what they did to my boy' clip*
God help us XD
@@KaiserShounen
Yeah my 2nd point was the weakest because I had to make a big assumption for it and you have to make big assumptions to excuse the objective flaws to this fight
On the 5th point I would like to mention that Yang (V8 C12) mentioned the portals to Vacuo would save "thousands of refugees" and Oscar (V7 C13) said to Ironwood "You abandon Remnant leaving millions to fed for themselves so only a few could survive" meaning Ironwood would've saved more people
The 13th point Mediaocrity4 first video on this fight
@@abelzerihun7985 Oh right. I honestly forgot all about that video. Not one of Media's best I'd say.
And also he couldn't exactly count on vacuo at the moment seeing as how he closed all the kingdoms borders to make it less likely that Salem's goons to come stroll in and wreak havoc. Hell at the time, if they were able to compromise Beacon, who knows whats going on in Vacuo. Plus, I highly doubt that sending millions of people who lived in a frozen tundra to a desert would do much good either. Even if that is a possible solution 1. No one brought it up at the time and 2. It makes sense that Ironwood wouldn't do it at this time anyways.
@@KaiserShounen
Agreed
8:49 9:14 I recommend the CZcams Video "Ironwood Did Nothing Wrong" by albx because it proves your point
@@abelzerihun7985 Seen and yeah I 1100000% agree with it
“Volume 9 is around the corner”- 1 year ago
Just looked someone made the same comment but it’s honestly funny that rooster teeth got its priorities mixed up, they said they were delaying for volume 9 then just casually announce they were working on something else instead.
Yeah I know. Its crazy how they shat the bed after all this. But hey, it gives me more time for videos
It might have been interesting if RWBY had actually lost this fight. As whats-his-name pointed out they were there to arrest RWBY not kill them, the story could have easily continued progressing after a loss, and if they had been utterly outclassed it would have given RWBY good standing when arguing for fighting for what is right even if it seems hopeless, because that's exactly what they just did.
spoke nothing but facts in this video! thx for summing up my thoughts on this bruh.
You know I would’ve given CRWBY a pass if Marrow used his semblance on Team RWBY but Weiss’ time dilation was active and it nullified it’s effect
Good video, I'll probably rewatch it later.
Edit: I wish everybody a good Thanksgiving... If you celebrate it.
Horrible decision, unless you hate rwby
RWBY is quite horribly written.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again:
The Ace-ops should’ve been like “The Seven” of Atlas’s military, only difference being is that all of them are actually pretty decent people.
You had me a Legend of Kora you glorious and ingenious bastard you! BRING IT ON!
Hope you enjoy the channel.
@@KaiserShounen been loving it so far, great work and humor! 👏
@@feywinterfox9630 Thanks a lot man. Share it around. Hope your friends enjoy it too.
They really had a good thing going with ironwood at the start. Then the writers had to bend over backwards to undo all that because they realised they actually made team RWBY extremely unlikable given that ironwood was 100% in the right and they opposed him. They actually made a great character in ironwood by accident and had to assassinate his character in vol 8 so he would actually look like the villain they were trying to make him originally. Outrageous
@ the 24:00 mark, your commentary had me laughing uncontrollably. I can't believe I didn't notice the fact that they weren't even damaged after the big fight on my first viewing.
You didn't just named Game of Thrones and Legend of Korra in the same line as The Last Jedi, did you? I'll have you know, GoT started strong, then slipped and fell into the toilet, and Korra was just all around good. Not ATLA level masterpiece, perhaps, but pretty good nonetheless. TLJ, however, was just flat out bad in all aspects.
Anyways, I just don't even follow RWBY anymore. Vol 4 was entertaining, the others kind of blended together, and they lost me in Atlas. The only good thing I remember is Weiss tackling her father and taking him down. That felt great.
But this? Gezus, this is bad on many levels. RWBY has gotten visually prettier, but lost a lot of substance. Monty may have not been much of a writer, and was just responsible for kickass action, but at least they had a direction, and kickass action. Now RWBY has neither. All of this is dumb writing on a level with professional Hollywood production these years. So much squandered potential... Oh well.
You know what's also funny team Rwby were also shown to be relatively on par with Cinder who in theory, not including the gods, should be the second strongest character as she was shown defeating Ozpin a character who in theory was shown to be relative to Salem😂 meaning anybody below them should get washed gotta love inconsistencies right.
In fairness to Oz, he was only relative to Salem before he gifted his magic away to the Maidens (and to Qrow and Raven), so the Oz that lost to Cinder shouldn’t be anywhere near as strong as the one that lost to Salem…though this does beg the question of why Oz would give up his magic if it would 1) weaken him, and 2) put a target on the Maiden’s backs.
@michaeldorsey9231 But that's also weird at the same time presuming, he gifted the maidens the power from what I presume at least a 100 or 2 years ago. That would at least give him a enough time for his magic to build up again and Crow and Raven feel like it wouldn't take that much magic to give them the ability to turn into birds but that's a speculation on my part.
@@danielcain8136 that’s assuming that his magic would build back up again; using aura as a comparison, I get the impression that it’s like the difference between aura getting depleted through basic usage vs literally giving part of your aura/soul into another person (as seen with Pietro to Penny). The former uses aura but is provably shown to replenish with time and recovery, whereas in that latter irreversibly takes more out of the user and doesn’t recover.
I still enjoy the show, even if it does have its issues. Volume 8 was disappointing though. I certainly dont like what they did to Ironwood, and the finale was goofy.
My favorite part of your video so far (I am still watching it) is the “Go-Go-Gadget” Vine part. That made me laugh lol
Glad you liked the video. Its ok to like the show despite the flaws in it. If my videos get you thinking about it more critically, that's all that matters.
Yeah, the final fight in V8 was completely nerfed in the Villains' favor. They made the heroes into weaklings. Penny made a dumb decision cost her her life, the Relic and gave Jaune trauma. No Atlas Hunters or Soldiers helped them. They got rid of crucial characters like Emerald and Nora who could've been helpful. The heroes got "Monkey's Pawed" by that damn Relic, making the portals go one way and only goes to to a random spot in Vacuo. Winter wasted time fighting Ironwood instead of disabling him. And finally Penny treated her sacrifice/suicide as a good thing and was completely oblivious of the consequences and how it would affect their hearts of those she loves.
It would've made more sense if it was Cinder, Neo AND Salem they were fighting.
@@kidprime6863Cinder had way more plot armor then she normally did.
Nice job, Kaiser!
I enjoyed watching this. I do think the video was a bit lengthy, but that’s okay. You made your point known and had some really good takes ^^ )
One thing I would like to see is the volume narration be turned up a bit more in the next video. At points the volume of your voice was uneven and the music kind of overshadowed your narration. Other than that, awesome job!
Yeah I gave up on rwby after they made iron heart a villain when he was right all along with pretty much everything he did and ruby being a idiot all season I did watch the rest but god was it all stupid
Now In retrospect I won't say that he was right about EVERYTHING, but at least in volume 7 he was way less stupid and hypocritical than the main cast.
He wasn’t right but I understood his reasoning. He was never happy about it and unless some magical dues ex machina appeared, there were no other options.
Team RWBY just got on my nerves for how catty and self righteous they all were and did NOTHING when it came to offering alternative. They just complained and even stole some of the plans they themselves complained about the prior seasons. Winter literally blames him for how mantle broke over the marshal law… when it was LITERALLY HER IDEA!. SHE pushed for it.. the hero centered morality in this show genuinely triggers me lmao. They want the hero’s to be seen as in the right so much that even when they factually aren’t, it’s never highlighted.
I was really expecting to find a comment in here about the Subway image. Either I’m the only one who knows its true origins, or people were legit too pissed about the show to notice it. Either way, I still find it hilarious.
Watching the newer series of Rwby just makes me sad
I understand why Iron Wood did what he did. But he was sacrificing a ton of people in the process. I enjoyed the all or nothing view team RWBY had. But it felt like what you said how none of this was really discussed in the show…
I like the idea of these things but barely any of it was explored.
The entire world of Remnant vs Mantle. In the grand scheme of things it seems significantly small doesn't it?
I still don’t get that argument because Salem FACTUALLY didn’t care at all about Mantle. She literally B-lines it to Atlas because that’s where her goal was. Honestly.. if they had left, she would have just tried to chase them and eventually just went to Vaccuo.
Now I gotta ask.. at what point is it okay to leave people behind to die?. People died during the portal plan, but that never comes up. People died in the ever after while our HUNTRESSES ran away.. imagine staying and dying from intruders so the police can make an escape😂.
Why is it only ever okay when it’s team rwby doing it. Telling the world of Salem!.. no that’s bad, you’re a bad person for thinking of something that’ll cause mass panic. Oh wait, she’s here now.. we’re gonna go tell the world now and ask for help?.
That's the thing, barely anything is explained or explored.
all I know about RWBY is all the porn about it & the abridged version I heard is good.
You know what, thats probs for the best lol
@yeh uda He needs to watch RWBY to like the porn? Never heard of that rule lol
@yeh uda well i watched it, wanted to like it, and i do but its not a very good show.
Funny how that works
@@KaiserShounen and didn't reply lmao
This (along with the end of Volume 8) is some of the most one sided, plot induced stupidity, plot armor written nonsense I’ve seen, aside from the Joker from DC comics or a story called “Cry For Justice”.
I saw a review of that story once. Fucking wack
@@KaiserShounen I just read the issue where Prometheus beats the Justice League, some of the dumbest shit ever.
While I still consider myself a fan of the show, (against my better judgment perhaps) I can't find any counter arguments here. Power scaling is the main issue for me.
Fair enough man. The scaling is fucking wack. Glad you still enjoy the show though. No shame in that
R/W/BY is giving me the urge to commit a cide.
What is a RWBY question mark exclamation mark question mark one question mark one slash exclamation mark question question mark question mark slash exclamation mark exclamation mark one
Yes
@yeh uda And you don't get the joke. Guess we're both disappointed lol
@yeh uda *simple plan plays in the background*
@yeh uda
**Sound of Silence plays in the background**
You have a Wattpad account.
Fucking love your voice my G. This was a great breakdown.
However I disagree about the Ace-Ops & Ren point you made. They were definitely fighting their feelings for eachother. You can see them arguing in the fight itself. But it doesn't matter anyway because it's not nearly enough to justify them losing to Team RWBY. Them not understanding Teamwork makes no fucking sense and nothing in the story justifies a trained military team not having strong emotional bonds.
Other than that you're spot on. lol.
Thanks for watching.
However I did actually pointed out within that same span that the real issue with Ren's line there is that it is based on attributes of the characters that came straight outta nowhere and were poorly established/developed. That was my point. Plus them raging out this way robs the fight of any actual meaningful conflict. And as you said, them being THIS dysfunctional makes no sense.
But hey, thanks for keeping me on my toes.
@@KaiserShounen Oh I see. That also makes sense. This show really suffers from trying to CRAM so many things into these tiny ass episodes. By trying to do everything they barely accomplish anything. Like why the hell are they doing a stupid political plot when the theme of the arc is supposed to be about trust? That shit went nowhere and didn't add anything to the story.
@@heyarnold7256 I mean... you could say both themes tie together in a way. But they were not fleshed out enough to even feel compelling in the slightest.
@@KaiserShounen harriet was shown to be a hardass though marrow was shown to be compassionate.
They only work as a team under clover.
But you don't fucking pay attention
@@heyarnold7256 do you even watch the show on your own?
No, you only watch through the eyes of haters.
Its why you refuse to acknowledge the good in this show.
RWBY really just went downhill after Monty died
Arguably even before
Possible but I doubt Monty would have just rolled over and watched his passion project get butchered by a pack of mindless anti drones. He was a big anime fan after all, from what I've heard one of his biggest inspirations for RWBY was Black Rock Shooter. But let's be honest here, the west will NEVER be able to do anime or sudo anime justice. WB needs to just sell RWBY to Japan and let the professionals handle the franchise.
@@LoliFoxQueen This all implies that RWBY as a story really mattered a whole lot to Monty and I don't think it ever did aside from the vibes and whether or not it had cool fight scenes. Thats why he left all the story decisions to M/K from the start. Like it or not, the signs of the show not going well was all there. They just couldn't fix things in time.
I can't say with any certainty how involved Monty was with the story of RWBY as he was after all an animator not a story writer. All I'm implying is that after Monty died RT had full rein for anything with the show, when in reality they should have just sold the ip to one of Monty's favorite anime studios.
Either way RT fucked up big and RWBY payed the price for it.
6:09-
does anyone else think that Ruby saying this line is very out of character for her?
It would literally make more sense coming from *any other member of the team.*
It felt unnecessarily smug - especially since she immediately backtracks on it and tries to diffuse the situation - and feels so off.
@@thomasraines1396 exactly!
It also doesn't help that this is another one those moments where the writers attempting to write something "cool" takes the weight and tension out of the scene. In this moment, Team RWBY has just officially betrayed the Atlas military, and Ironwood, for the sake of doing what they believe is the right thing to do, or for the greater good. Ironwood has told his Ace Ops to arrest them on the grounds of treason. This is happening around the time they know that Salem is on the way to Atlas. Which they all know because Salem threatened them all just minutes prior.
Atlas is about to go into full lockdown, Team RWBY and Ironwood's schism couldn't have began at a worse moment, and the fate of the world is now in grave danger since two of the four relics required to call the Brother Gods back are in the same nation at once as the nation is about to be upended by internal conflict within the leading defense planners leadership. Barring some of Volume 7's bad writing and stupidity in some spots, it's an incredibly dramatic situation with high stakes I'm rather invested in.
Then Ruby says her generic "badass" hero line to sound cool for no reason, other than to roast the Ace Ops by calling them weak. In short, one member of team RWBY says something that could be vaguely described as "cool" or "heroic," and the plot armor cheat code is activated at the cost of the tone of the scene.
@@Number1Rival it’s “Would You Kindly” for douchebags.
@@Number1Rival it’s “Would You Kindly” for total schmucks.
Good video, could have probably be shorter. There is a bit of fluff. But the editing is great and a good in depth analysis of volumes 7 and 8.
I'll keep that in mind in the future. Thanks
A poor analysis ignoring many factors
The editing takes out many details
IMO even though they usually have a literal good luck charm on their side the aces still should have had better communication.
I get you on this fight... It should not have happened, if it was more of a run for your life, tip of the scene then I can live with that...
Picture this dog boy uses his power there trap but Ruby uses her power a half sec before his to move at slow human run speed... Power struggles for them and dog boys broke.. a sonic boom happened... Ruby runs, manages to trick the rabbit using the elevator...Ruby came back to the room and the body slapped the dog dropping them both.. rest of team RWBY got speed boost from Weiss for them all to run..
The more I think about it the more I feel about how much better vols 7 and 8 would be if instead of the Ace Ops they instead split the team up between those loyal to Atlas agreeing with Ironwood either for pragmatic reasons or general trust and loyal to mantle ie trying to preserve all life but at greater risk.
It would definitely require some rearranging of the characters actions mostly I think Yang should join ironwoods side given how she hated lies and half truths and Ironwood is the reason she can even fight again. Instead Nora should’ve had that conversation with Robyn given her own passion for mantles safety.
29:20 What the hell is this?
28:42 on pause 😏
I am going to watch world trigger after this video looks good 💕
The beginning of the first season is a bit rough but the latter half onwards is where things get good.
So they basically Borutoed the Elite Gaurd.
What do you think of slick productions thoughts on Ironwood?
Now I have yet to see his full video. I and a friend were groupwatching the first 18 minutes or so but we had to stop due to time.
However, I have many issues with his assessment of Ironwood's character and his reasoning as to why Ruby not trusting was sensible or fleshed out at all. I think in the process of trying to look at things from Ruby's perspective throughout the series, he more so creates reactions from the character that do not exist or get explained via further context.
Example: he notes that Ironwood yelled at Yang when she was about to hysterically explain her story in volume 3 ignoring the fact that she should understand that they have zero evidence to support what they are saying and that dragging things out would cause panic. Not to mention the show NEVER comments on this moment ever again, and Ironwood more than makes up for it by trying to protect them later on anyways so why does that even matter.
Edit: And also Ruby didn't believe Yang in that scene either so rules for thee not for she I guess lol
Ok progress report. Now I have officially finished the video and while I agree with literally 90%... well, lets just say the last 10% has a scheduled spanking lol
@@KaiserShounen I'll be interested to hear your opinion.
@@brandonontama2415 what do you think of his thoughts on Ironwood?
@@KaiserShounen I liked everything about his review except his thoughts on Ironwood. He tended to use headcanon to put Ironwood in a bad light, like how he said that Ironwood had a prejudice against the lower class of Mantle even though that's never shown in the narrative (he even shows dislike towards the elites in vol 4). The only reason his taking resources away from Mantle is because he needs them for Amity. He also said that Lionheart was the reason they were justified in not trusting Ironwood, even though RWBY don't mention Lionheart once so that can't be a reason why they didn't trust him, the main reason they give for lying to Ironwood is because of what Mantle looks like. Finally, he says the state of Mantle was a reason not to trust him despite the fact that Mantle looks fine. I've seen worse places in real life.
5:08 Wait.... did you say *back* ???
5:15 Oh.... Carry on.
WHat did you think I said?
*Looks at the Ace Ops*
Me: You're trash Brock.
Who the fuck is brock?
@@eren34558 the first gym leader.
25:28
Rooster Teeth is out of business.
I found a well made video on this topic titled "RWBY Revisited: Team RWBY Vs the Ace Ops". It goes in-depth about the scenario and each of the characters' action for the fight.
I'll check it out
Rooster teeth are children of the ashes of civilization. They can't create a meaningful story because all they have are bastardized third- and fourth-hand accounts of actual human experience. But they are oblivious to this. Even if they recognize their own ineptitude, they will never be able to pinpoint the cause. If they were self-aware, they could focus on entertaining fights and cool concepts. When you reference the Far Cry clip about insanity at the end, that's why. They think they are trying something different, unaware that the variables they're fiddling with are meaningless.
I agree that the fight was stupid, but I don't agree that Ironwood's plans made sense. A lot of people have found all kinds of problems with them, including myself.
All of them are short sighted and repeat the mistakes of the past.
The issue is that, the heroes are just as bad, if not worse, as the antagonists, which is what you said, and I agree with that.
I and many other fans came up with diplomatic solutions to the problems, and Salem even freaking mentions in Volume 6, I think, that Ironwood calling on help from Vaccou could have foiled her plan. And that's the most basic thing he could have done, let alone the many more diplomatic ways he could have handled the election, the Dust Embargo, and treating people as fugitives for simply disagreeing with him, in Qrow's case, that didn't even happen, he was just arrested for being caught between Robyn and Clover.
Team RWBY are arguably worse however, and the only reason to side with them is because they don't commit war crimes in volume 8--which is not the best reason to root for heroes.
But there's no end to the forced conflicting the show, the really annoying thing is that even when it's forced, nothing comes of it anyway, so what was the point of forcing it. Other shows have shoehorned in conflict but done an okay job with it nonetheless, if it had to be done because of run time.
One could put all this down to the studio pushing them too much, but it just doesn't explain every tiny detail that demonstrates the lack of care put into the writing. I do think Volume 8 did at least kind of fix Oscar's character, but that was the only real improvement, everyone else just looked worse with time.
Upon further inspection I now agree that Ironwood's plans (in volume 7) were flawed, some outright contrived. But most made sense with what info he had at the time and his character up to that point. Not to mention as you said, at least the dude HAD a plan, took action, and actively worked with others to achieve these goals. The issue was basically the crappy pacing of the volume and the other characters around him being morons. So we agree on everything else.
Though I'm not sure how getting aid from Vacuo would even help, seeing as how all the other kingdoms lambasted Atlas post-volume 3. The most we could say is that James could gain the help of the headmaster there but he would likely see it as too much of a risk especially if they got the summer maiden and relic involved. So I'm not sure if it would have really changed what occurred in the volume.
@@KaiserShounen Eh, well, Salem seemed to think so, but who can be sure she's correct?
But one has to wonder if Atlas had not hidden from everyone else, and put out a Dust Embargo, which would make it harder for the other kingdoms to survive, would Vacuo have been more willing to help, rather than lose yet another kingdom?
One thing that no one seems to remember when they talk about the team's plan is that Haven, thanks to Blake's new White Fang, was not destroyed, and still had many willing fighters there, and some huntsmen. While it was weaker than before, it wasn't decimated, and there was no surge of grimm because the teams averted a major catastrophe, so no one panicked.
That being the case, couldn't they have cooperated with them to help rescue people, or to work out some kind of deal that would help both parties, and Vaccou.
Perhaps send more help back to Beacon to improve relations with them, while allowing dust from each kingdom to still go in and out.
Therefore Atlass would look like everybody's friend trying to atone for the disaster of Beacon, instead of everyone's enemy, which is already what they thought because Ironwood was framed.
While there are risks in this plan, they are less than the risks of isolating yourself in a world where resources are scarce to begin with and dust is necessary to survival. Dust is shipped from all the kingdoms, not just Atlas, so even Atlas would have a lower supply.
Not to mention the economy taking a hit from the lack of jobs from the SDC, which would make it worse.
Like it or not, the SDC is a huge part of why Atlas was rich and successful, so ruining Jacques' profits, however little people liked him, would hurt way more people than just the Schnees.
It's quite literally cutting off the limb you stand on, as General of Atlas, to make those choices.
And those are just the ones he made in Volumes 4-5, which Jacques warned him would backfire, and they did, based on what the Councilmen said later.
Atlas is like America, in that everyone has to trade with it because it's a wealthy nation, meaning that declaring war on it does more harm than good unless you're pretty dang confident you can be independent.
So Ironwood's excuse never made much sense, and since no kingdom did try to declare war, he should have just trashed the whole strategy of closing Atlas off.
Salem got the upperhand because no reinforcements would be able to join them due to the regulations.
As you can tell I've given this some thought, War strategy is something I've been interested in, and nothing I've ever read has led me to believe Ironwood's plan ever made sense, even from volume 3.
I could understand how he felt, as a person, but not why he was allowed such power in the first place. They never explain why he is allowed two council seats, and why the others didn't stop him sooner.
Now I put most of this down to the writers not doing their research. But it is frustrating that they pretend they're going to give us plots with complexity, only to not have the savvy to know how to solve the problems they created.
They should have kept politics out of it if they didn't know how they worked in practical terms, because many of the viewers do actually study this stuff and have picked it apart easily. Just feels like they're assuming we're all stupid and can't think for ourselves outside of the character's opinions. (Since I agree with none of them, clearly that's not the case.)
1. I doubt Mistral would be ready to help. Headmaster is dead, they were implied to be stretched thin with huntsmen since v3 and a lot of their pro hunstmen were killed off by Cinder presumably.
2. A deal would be a good plan but I hardly doubt they would take it in light of how Atlas fumbled the bag and the perception of things post volume 3. It is possible in trying to get the other kingdoms to cooperate, countermeasures against Salem would be hindered at a deadlock until anything would be approved. Which gives Salem more time to infiltrate the kingdoms.
3. I'd say the risk is greater if he kept the boarders open and rescued civilians from other kingdoms. Say Cinder and her goons steal a ship or hack into a ship or used civilians as hostages or even caused general chaos. It would not only brew animosity towards Atlas but also put more people in immediate danger potentially and making it much easier for his enemies to infiltrate. Plus while spreading his resources to help others, coming up with a plan to stop Salem and her forces would take a backseat and would likely take longer, too long for his liking. WHich makes sense from a practical and character perspective. The perceptions of other kingdoms are nothing compared to what Salem can cause so he has to take the hard choice to fight another day. But I understand this perspective.
4. We don't know how much dust Atlas exports relative to the other Kingdoms other than having lower than Vacuo. So I will leave it at that and take your word for it.
5. Did Ironwood claim Kingdoms would declare war? I don't remember that and it was likely a bluff to hide the whole Salem thing. Though speaking of Salem she would win regardless of whether or not reinforcements would come to their aid. And she won because of the heroes incompetence and because Cinder was a wildcard no one accounted for since they thought she was dead in volume 5.
6. We don't know how he has two seats. RWBY sucks at World building. Who knew. But I agree that a lot of things are shaky here.
@@KaiserShounen Okay, dude, but some of that was not what I said at all.
I said nothing about civilians (point 3) but that could be fixed if they just set a trap for Cinder ages ago, which would be easy given how stupid she is, and how easily Raven pulled it off. Post volume 5, Cinder is a non-issue, so why would they worry about her?
For (5), yes he did claim that, in volume 4 and it was referenced in volume 7, when Camilla says that it's obvious that no one is going to declare war, so he had been using that excuse.
(2) There is no reason they could not employ the same counter measures as they already were, while allowing for outside help. In fact that makes much more sense. As one of our presidents said "talk nice and carry a big stick" or something like that.
But that just brings to mind my issue with how Atlas and Mantle are run.
In a world of monsters, it makes no sense to have the rule that only licenced huntsmen can carry weapons. There was no mention of this rule before volume 7, and Oscar mentions having to fight small grimm on his arm, where clearly not a lot of people would be around to help.
Yet no one outside of the military can even carry a knife?
Grimm are everywhere, and no military force alive could cover every area of a kingdom.
It's insanity not to allow civilians to protect themselves and each other, which would force them to work together, instead of dividing them.
One of the many things that make no sense to me as the viewer, most fantasy world based shows allow for the rules of the world to effect their legal system, and I think if we ever saw any civilians dying while there were no huntsmen around, we'd be asking "well why didn't they try to fight the grimm?"
But of course, that wouldn't happen, noon would just sit there and let grimm take them, even if they didn't win, they would fight.
But in Atlas you can be punished for doing this--against monsters--- because that makes sense.
This is why the military was stretched so thin. Grimm are stupid, and would be able to be fought by the people if they were allowed to do so, and if it was an emergency like the show's absolutely, many real world governments employ that rule.
But had they taken this sensible route, they would have had more professional fighters available to oversee things and just provide the more high level skill needed.
Again, all this is stuff that people who studied warfare would think of, but would make the contrived conflict of the show much too difficult to find believable, so they stick to making it all about the huntsmen academies.
(But it's worth noting that at first, huntsmen were just people who made a career out of fighting grimm, they were not the only people who fought them, all mankind fought them, which made Atlas unusual in the world of Remnant for preventing that, but now the show makes it seem normal.)
The other stuff is all things that it could go either way, but taking risks like that is part of strategy, trying to take no risks at all, like Ironwood, and in some was, RWBY, up until the end of volume 8, never works because it limits your options too much.
So whether or not it was dangerous, doesn't mean it wasn't worth a shot, imo, because we're trying to stop Salem, not just keep her at bay as long as possible. Depends on how you see the central conflict, though.
@@aslprincess3944
1. apologies for the misread. It is late where I am currently and I didn't expect a huge textwall like this.
2. I don't think Ironwood was aware that Cinder was stupid. We know because we saw what happened in volume 5 as the audience. James does not. He's only working off what he knows and from he knew Cinder was the bitch who literally toppled Vale in volume 3 and one of the sources of his PTSD. I agree that the threat of the villains is negligible, but that is a different conversation because thats metatextual in nature. Contextually, Ironwood had no reason up to volume 7 to think Cinder is incompetent.
3. Im gonna assume Ironwood used the war thing as a lie then to necessitate the lockdown and to give himself time for his plan. I'll leave it there and take your word for it
4. I agree that it makes no sense for no civilians to have weapons against grimm but that is not a Atlas problem. That is an issue with ALL the kingdoms. The worldbuilding in this show is terrible. But I agree though that allowing the Mantle citizens at least to protect themselves from grimm would be good (which wouldn't even be needed if James had plugged up the damn hole in the wall which wouldn't take much dust to do as shown by weiss in volume 6 but fuck it).
5. I agree that the riskier moves you proposed would probably work better in the long run but it is understandable why Ironwood went with the call that he did. Especially after so much had fallen apart in volume 3. But I think either way we should give credit that he was the only one take to take active steps in fighting Salem in the first place, especially compared to OZpin who could have made things so much easier so long ago by uniting humanity against Salem.
Ok one problem I have is the forbidden "power scaling" it is not something a wrighter should ever use it hinders storytelling, other than that good vid.
First off, glad you enjoyed the video.
But what do you mean? Power scaling doesn't inherently hinder story telling. There are good stories that utilize powerscaling very well even on a basic level. What about it is something no one should never use?
@@KaiserShounen The answer to who wins a fight is who the wrighter decides will win, power scaling just becomes BS math and assumptions.
@@wulfricjeager4596 Not necessarily. Thats not what Powerscaling inherently is. There's a difference between Powerscaling within your story and doing so in a Death Battle or Vs Debate sort of way.
Having characters be capable of certain things or attributes or having a progression of strength is fine in your story so long as it is consistent. The writer can decided what those things are, yes. But they can't just change their own rules on a whim, otherwise there is no tension.
In this case, we had no way of knowing how far in terms of overall combat skill and stats Team RWBY were from the Aceops. This would be fine if their training was a bit more thorough or if their fight at the end of the volume was a lot tougher (for example have half of Team RWBy lose their aura's or something). It would be hard to believe that they would get that strong so quickly, but at least the fight would be challenging and have tangible stakes. But as is, its dogshit because the writers upscaled the characters battle prowess to such insane degrees where its hard to take seriously. THAT is BAD Power Scaling. You can have your characters win or lose however you want, just make it make sense within the text.
Good narrative powerscaling is not just numbers. I hope you can understand. If you want some more of my thoughts on that, there are some videos I can reccommend.
@@KaiserShounen Yeah, basically, readers should have a vague idea of how strong characters are relative to one another. They don't need definite proof that character A will win against character B, but they do need to understand that character B will have a tough time fighting against character A.
Honestly, this should have been a Winter Vs Team RWBY fight. The 1 v 4 would have made showcasing RWBY's teamwork far more easier on the animators, and having Winter be the singular mentor would mean we don't have to use up so much screen time. And you could make it so that RWBY's goal is to simply escape while Winter's is to trap and apprehend them, meaning you can preserve Winter as an actual threat to the heroes despite her defeat.
@@wulfricjeager4596 Yes. A writer decides who will win and who will lose. And generally, if that decision makes sense, it's good power scaling, if it doesn't, it's bad power scaling.
If you write a story with some focus on combat, you want to establish the general level of prowess of your characters, and then you need to stay consistent with that, and show improvements. RWBY provides us with ample examples on how to NOT do that. Remember how Mercury and Em toyed with everyone at Beacon? They were put up as a considerable threat. Then remember how they were beaten off-screen by RWBY? Where was the training and improvement that justifies that?
There wasn't any.
To conclude, power scaling is just one more tool in the arsenal of writers, and like any other tools, it needs to be employed with skill and care. If not, it sticks out like a sore thumb. It doesn't hinder storytelling in the slighted, *it's a part of it*.
GOOD SHIT
1:09 Your miraculous ladybug?
Damn right
@@KaiserShounen In the bumblebee video you brought up how slow burns can be burning for too long and then immediately showed footage of Miraculous and I find that funny.
P.S For me the main ship in Miraculous has the effect of making you feel like progress is being made until you think and look back and realize you’ve been through three seasons of buildup already with very little actual progress and side ships that feel more appealing than the main ones at times.
4:15.
Sun: Excuse me?
here i am wanting to rewatch the fight and i see this video. i click to see what you have to say, i'm use to people roasting Vols 1~6 but Vol 7+ is new to me. as at the time of airing Vol 7~8 was received positively. and after watching, i'll counter point your issues
* Salem's Immortality is her greatest Weapon, not only for being immortal, but that Desire it brings, if you assume that she is on par with the Maidens, she presents an issue, but when you find out that she is a monster even compared to the maidens. it makes you feel insignificant. when the group met ironwood, when they seen the state of Mantle and Atlas, and his tired apperence. along with hearing that his Plan B is to abandon Mantle. Telling him how Strong Salem actually is.. doesn't sound like a good idea, it's gunna push a man who is near breaking over the edge. and when they eventual do, he does. and not being in the right mental state, he misses the reason they held this information. kinda like you did
* are the Ace ops minimal and Simular? yeah, that was the point, each is a different type of Blind Faith. Clover is Trust, Hariot is Respect {for Clover}, Elm is Duty/Honor, Vine is Responsibly, and Marrow is Comradery. are these Flawed characters? yes, that was the point, they can't have good reasons because, they don't even know. they set this expection from the start when. only Marrow seemed interested in being friends, they work together Solely on the aspect of "it's a job" and that works until Emotions and/or independences get involved. so no they can't or won't talk team Rwby down, because they don't even know how to talk to each other
* as for the fight itself, once it's no longer a Job, they are not on the same page, they have kept each other at arms distance so much that when "Rwby vs Ace Ops" happens and emotions are high, they can't read each other any more and make mistakes. then we look at team Rwby, who are not only on the same page, but exploit this. Ruby Taunts Hariot and pulls her away. as Ruby is really the only one Hariot can't Capture instantly. Yang pushs Elm out of the Room, and Blake fallows, Vine being Passive would rather prevent a 2v1 then create a 1v2 on Weiss, so he also fallows. Weiss can get around Marrow's Semlance with her Summons.
* Ironwood's Plan is Grey. he is basically using over half the city as a Decoy, even if you argue it's "Realistic", Realistic is Grey Neutral thinking. a Grey Plan that will work vs an Optimist Plan you don't know. is a classic conflict, because guess what Optimist in the face of adversity isn't easy. specially if you don't have a good answer.
* 28:23 it's almost like, he blindsided them and they where close together. {at least compared to Team Rwby's Spacing} also Marrow limits his own movements doing this, if he tried that against Team Rwby, and only got 2 of them, they get a free hit on him, and break it.
if there wasn't Character Flaws, inconsistencies caused by Variables, Conflicts without answers. it would be very Linear. by making things ambiguous, you keep people guessing, it becomes Dynamic. if the story went 100% like you'd expect, then it becomes predictable. don't expect a point A to B series of events, and get upset when it's A > B > A > C > B > D and you can't keep up
Well, first off, welcome to the channel! And if you haven’t seen many critiques of volume 7 or ESPECIALLY volume 8… you got a lot in store for you lol. But hey glad you watched the video.
1. Onto the Salem point. Now here’s the thing I agree that there are some pragmatic and sensible reasons for Team RWBY not to tell Ironwood about Salem's true origins. This video is out of date in terms of my full thoughts on that. The bigger issue is that, in my opinion, those reasons weren’t fleshed out enough, and there was barely any internal conflict with the team in terms of telling him the truth. It comes off as insanely jarring, given how viscerally angry they were at Ozpin for obvious reasons. Given what they’ve shown and the lack of discussion among the team, it gives off the impression that either A. the team is wishy-washy and hypocritical or B. that they are pretty much a hivemind besides brief instances of questioning what they did (within volume 7 anyways). I know that is clearly not the intent, but they could have done more, especially given how much more cerebral this volume tried to be compared to the others. If it had succeeded, I probably wouldn’t have made the video.
2. Minimal or Simular? I don’t know what you mean by that. Either way, I don’t mind characters being flawed. If you look at my Anilist link in the description of this video or even watch my other content, you’d know I have no issue with characters acting unreasonably or being flawed. That's not my issue with Ace Ops. My issue with them is that they reacted in such a flawed way that brought down the stakes of the fight far too much. Plus, there’s also the unimpressive stereotype of Soldiers not being friends, which undercuts the actual camaraderie and intricate layers of that kind of dynamic (especially IRL depending on where you are). Instead, the conflict is so simple, and their views on teamwork are so villainized that it makes the fight less interesting to think about or watch on a narrative level. It also makes the fight much less complicated because though what Ironwood is presenting is morally complex, most of the team don’t second guess themselves when fighting against their mentors (sans Ruby after talking shit to Harriet). It just lacks a whole lot of nuance which would've made the fight more difficult for the heroes.
3. I'm fine with them having internal conflicts that prevent them from acting as effectively as usual, but the extent that they do so is too much, IMO. For example, sure, Harriet is hot-headed, but it's kinda weird how a trained professional wouldn’t think after a couple of minutes that Ruby is baiting her and when she and Marrow had the clear chance to double-team Weiss or assist Vine and Elm. This, among other things, wouldn’t be an issue if the heroes didn’t beat them so easily. Aside from Blake's aura shimmering once, there were no injuries on their side during the fight, despite fighting the best team in the country and only having a few weeks of training. It over-relies on the other side's irrationality in order to give them the win instead of being a small but important part of it. That is my point.
4. My point about Ironwood's plan isn’t whether or not it's “Realistic” or not, just that it makes sense given the situation. Do I think it would work? No. Do I think it's bad or out of character for Team RWBY to be against it? Absolutely not. If all they said was that they have to figure out some other plan and Ironwood refused, I would be fine with that. But they initially suggested staying and fighting Salem to a standstill which, from their moral viewpoint AND from a practical perspective, would arguably cause more harm than Ironwood's plan.
5. First off, Team RWBY still seemed pretty close. In fact, they are similarly close together to the crowd of people at Robyn's rally, which he managed to stop. But even if that weren’t the case, if two of the heroes managed to escape his semblance, then the other three could try to hold them off. Now do I think this would be 100% in their favor? No. But it's an obvious advantage that they never take at all, and it's a wasted opportunity to show how the team would overcome such a difficult scenario.
Okay, let's not make any assumptions about each other, please. I don’t mind fights between characters not going in the way I expect. Though I doubt things were as “ambiguous,” this whole thing was because of how easily you’re able to make counterarguments using what's in the text, so idk lol. But that aside, throughout this video, I keep mentioning a decent Shonen series called World Trigger (which you should definitely watch). In that show, for example, all the fights are pretty dynamic, and the characters utilize strategy to win as well as take advantage of their opponent's mistakes. But it's done more believably and adds to fight quality way more, even when the characters get overly emotional. And none of the fights go in any way what I expected going in. It's all about how it is executed. To me, it's everything this fight really isn’t. Dynamic. Team RWBY won relatively easily because the AceOps became too emotional and kneecapped basic strategy. Personally, I wouldn’t call that very dynamic. But if you think the opposite, all the power to ya.
27:40 bro i just saw this didt even remember i watched part of it and the first words i hear were rwby "Jack off" session that got me
So that's how you sound like. Anyways, good video.
Yeah man. Seen you a lot over the years. Glad you enjoy it
Are you nuts?
This shit was wrong 90% .
You ignored mantle and lionhearts role.
You ignored Robyn.
What us wrong with you.
23:08 Them beating the AceOps isn't really the problem off screen training is still training and they aren't fucking Rey from starwars where they lived in the middle of nowhere and only recently started fighting RWBY have been training and fighting since a young age a fact the show has confirmed on many occasions so experience alone isn't a deciding factor. Plus the two groups knew each others tactics and abilities going in which remove any element of surprise the Ops can pull in the fight if this fight took place at the beginning of the vol theres no doubt team RWBY would lose.
True but:
1.Though team RWBY have been training for their whole lives, The Aceops presumably would have the same if not greater amount of training and experience.
2. We barely have much of a reference on what the gap in combat ability between huntsman in training and the pros and what exceptions exist between the two. So the fact we barely get much of anything like that organically until they suddenly get super strong offscreen is not only unsatisfying but very contrived.
and 3. The Aceops would logically know everything Team RWBY would pull against them. They are professional soldiers, there's no reason why they wouldn't have their own countermeasures even under pressure. Thats their job.
All of this would be fine if the fight wasn't so one-sided. If a few members of team RWBY were knocked out and they had visible injuries, it would give the impression that the fight was tough, worthy of fighting literally the best huntsman team in the country. Not to mention if the Ops didn't pull any obviously horrendous tactical mistakes. But that clearly was not what happened and that is the real problem.
It may not be Sequel Trilogy terrible but it is still inexcusable. If Rey only trained in the jedi ways for 3 years and STILL easily beat Kylo Ren, that would be the same problem.
@@KaiserShounen The problem is that the show is belatedly trying to give the characters a training arc, but half-assed it and did a couple minutes worth of montage and called it a day. When it really should've been happening constantly in Volumes 4 and 6. Like, the entire premise of Vol 4 when you look at the setup in Volume 3 is that life outside the Kingdom is incredibly tough and would be an entire new challenge that our heroes would need to face and grow stronger after overcoming it.
What did we get? Crotch shots and jokes about constantly loosing the map.
@@KaiserShounen Fair enough
@@Birthday888 They kind of less time than a normal TV series, so they may of cut the training because of time issues I guess?
In defense of Rey, first time she was fighting a emotionally conflicted guy who just got shot with a overpowered gun. We are shown that Finn could put up a good fight with him in this state, I love Finn but I suspect his melee skills can use work.
Second time she been trained by Luke Skuwalker and her for still conflicted.
Watching your video for the third time. Can confirm I am indeed getting tired of your shit. Only saw that now.
I always took it that team RWBY was better because Qrows semblance was making it harder on them since volume 4. They’ve had to contend with a bad luck semblance for quite some time now and we’re still taking down big Grimm and fought the likes of Tyrian and survived. Meanwhile the Aceops had Clover making things easier for however long. So now that the ACEOPS don’t have their crutch of good luck and RWBY doesn’t have the handicap of Qrows bad luck the fight came down to who’s better and team RWBY actually made sense to win atleast in my eyes.
I respect the complaints with the dialogue and your issues with the fight but this is simply my perspective or thoughts
I never even considered that
That’s bullshit, not helped by the fact Qrow’s semblance is absolutely dog shit.
LEGEND OF KORRA ISN'T BAD. SEASON 3 IS PEAK
They had teamwork...... RWBY vs Nevermore and JNPR vs Deathstalker
We're just talking about Team RWBY and that was volume 1. Its been several seasons since then.
@@KaiserShounen The key word here is "had". Once when they had someone who actually knew how to choreograph fights. Rip Monty.