Cooker Circuits Diversity, 15kW load, 32A circuit breaker.
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2020
- Cooker circuits for domestic properties. Protective device, cable size, and what can be connected to the end of it.
In virtually all cases, a 32A MCB and 4mm² cable is suitable for cooking devices up to 15kW.
For connecting to the appliance(s), either 4mm² or 2.5mm² H07RN-F flex depending on the connected load.
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Diversity Perfectly explained !
I honestly think they should get you to write the next edition of the wiring regs John👍🏻
Amen to that.....
Agreed. And once the regs are confirmed and finalised, that’s that!!!! I’m fed up of regs changing, you never know wether you’re coming or going.
The only reason the regs change is for some clown to justify his/her job:
* walk into building*
*hmmmmm..........what nonsense can we make up today just to piss everyone off??*
*ohhhhh, I know,*
@@w415hyz if they didnt come up with new ass rules they would be out of job, so why you think they do it
A couple of points in this video I have had a disagreement with my assessor over the last couple of years......he nearly shat when I showed him this😂😂
@@w415hyz You forgot about £ that they earn from sale of these books😁
Thankyou for the clear explanation and break down of the explanation into simple steps. The hidden humour of cleaning behind a 20 year cooker made me chuckle too.
As an old spark I wished I'd have had you as a lecturer back in the late 1960s when I was at college
As a building control officer with no electrical training I am so impressed with the explanations given in your videos. I very much appreciate your time and effort, you have explained clearly with clear understandable examples. I am not an electrician but feel more confident in my role with regards to understanding electrical work in domestic properties. Thank You .
Your method of teaching is absolutely first class every word you use has value and is not in the least superfluous to your explanation when setting out your examples etc I really do enjoy these mini lectures and the skill with which you impart your subject matter . By far one of the best you tube channels out there bar non on electrical matters . Thankyou for your effort on this channel which is reflected in your number of loyal subscribers .
"every word you use has value and is not in the least superfluous" - oh yes some are - when he's in dry humour mode - which occurs a few times in his videos.
In this video, paraphrasing: "if you're the type of person who puts it in and just uses it for 20 years without cleaning behind it, this does not apply to you" (Which from my experience seems to be most people!)
Totally agree with every word!
TheChipmunk2008 - what’s this strange thing you speak of “cleaning”? 😂
I can only second that! Also very clear English and good pronunciation which really help if someone is not native speaker.
My apprentice was talking about you today, said you were better than her college tutor. I do believe she learns far more from you than college....so thought I'd see for myself and I don't think she's wrong.....keep up the good work
Love this channel. Always something to learn and I’m not a sparky!
Love your dry sense of humour. Great tips. Thanks
Thank you John for the comfirmation on Cooker Circuits, just what I thought.
Brilliant John you have a fantastic way of explaining things I'm not a spark but I always find your channel entertaining and I actually understand it thank you
Oh my god I wish I had seen this before so helpful and reassuring love your matter of fact tone and the clear and concise math
Brilliant video John, as always. Love the way you explain things. 👍
Excellent, informative video thanks. We’re about to have our kitchen refitted and are swapping to an induction hob from gas and a number of kitchen suppliers and electricians have told us that we’ll need a dedicated 32Amp supply from the consumer unit even though we have an existing 32Amp cooker circuit with only our single electric oven on it. One suggestion we were given was to put the new Induction hob on the existing oven circuit and then add the 3.2kW oven to the kitchen socket ring main, hardwired. Now I’ve watched this and learnt about Diversity I know that both the new 7.35kW induction hob and 3.2kW oven (20.77Amp total) can be run on the existing 32Amp cooker circuit . Thank you
This has been a refreshing albeit vindicating video for me, fantastic/straightforward and common sense view on the difference between the use of 4mm and 6mm size cable. Thank you John. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks again, John. Not the first time you've saved me money and educated me.
I have lost count of the times that someone has called me in to install a cooker and the salesman has told them it will need a 50a supply and everything upgrading. Haven't needed a supply greater than 32a yet. :) Great video as always.
The manual for my Gorenje cooker states that it requires a 32A or 40A breaker ("depending on type", so I assume 40B or 32C?) and a 3*4mm2 flex cable. But I have a C40 breaker on this circuit, so I used a 3*6mm2 flex cable.
When I studied a long time ago it was always 60 amps- things have changed allot since...
Can find out more from your videos than from the college. Many thanks for your work.
John, greatly explained, thank you. Found your channel by chance and now wonder how I ever did without it .
Eloquently and clearly elucidated as always.
Really helped me with my kitchen hob/oven install and working out the load with diversity applied. Thank you.
So well explained and as previous comments anybody could learn with your technique of teaching
In my opinion you do best tutorials on British you tube about the science and practical things regarding electric work.
Well done👌
Just about to start a kitchen renovation, your videos have literally put me at ease and I now have a great understanding of the work that will be needed to be done and how it can be done. Fantastic!!
For me, this is the best site for electrical know how. I very much appreciate your knowledgeable, helpful posts. First class & very thorough👍
Fantastic.
Very well explained
Clear and easy to understand. Thank you John.
Thanks John for producing easy understanding video, I would be lost with out your explanation. Thank again
Great video John. I recently installed a cooker circuit, but never gave the cable size much thought and just assumed 6mm cable was a good choice, and certainly seemed to be the norm. I now realise 4mm is perfectly adequate on a 32A MCB. Thanks
I find it really helpful that a lot of manufacturers are giving the ratings now in kWh rather than kW, very helpful when designing a circuit...
One of the best videos on domestic cooker installation, so many sparkies don't understand it and panic when coming to install electric range cooker- just dividing W/V and coming up with 16mm2 cable, not taking into account thermostats and energy regulators which allow for use of diversity factor.
The way its presented is so simple that every layman would understand.
Well done Sir!
This has answered a question I've long wondered about. You're a champion, thankyou!
Thank you so much for this video. I was looking to get my dual fuel range cooker replaced with a fully electic one so I wanted to get my head round what was needed before getting an electrician to quote. I started looking at cookers online and they were quoting max powers of 15kw but only needing 32A breaker etc which just did not add up from my basic understanding so thank you very much for explaining.
Great work JW!!
Thank you John. Wonderfully informative. As always.
J W you are the star of the you tube electrical video. Need more from you.
Very informative as usual. I shall be placing on any consumer units installed a notice saying "in compliance with JW regs", as JW regs are more authoritive and clearly explained than the On Site Guide and BS7671:2018, lol.
Yet another fantastic video for a learner like me. I didn’t know there was such a thing as dual outlets for ovens/hobs.
Great video as always John. I've always installed a cooker circuit on 6mm because that's the way it's always been done. I've always got 4mm that rarely gets used and keep buying rolls of 6mm. Time to start using up the 4mm me thinks 😃😃
top video the whole of the uk needs to protect this man!!
Awesome video as always great teaching methods very easy to listen to , Thanks JW 👍
Some put sub CU's in kitchens to keep all kitchen appliance isolation switches at one convenient point. Grid switches can do the same with switches available with words like _cooker,_ _fridge,_ etc, on them. A small CU using double pole mcbs is cheap and quicker to install. About 15 years ago MEM made a kitchen specific box and isolation switches with the switches labelled _hob,_ _fridge,_ etc. I have not seen it sold for a long time.
Where all heavy appliances are in the kitchen (even an immersion in a kitchen cupboard), I have seen a heavy cable from the main CU at the front of a house run to the kitchen at the back of the house in a sub CU for the kitchen. It reduced the volume of cables needed simplifying the installation. Quicker to install and local isolation of the appliances at the sub CU.
Great video as always John 👌
I wired my cooker with 1.5mm2 cable. 4 tops and one oven with grill.
Well.. MCB was 3xB13A. Works perfectly.
Another excellent presentation
Brilliant explanation thanks John!!
Top job well explained and nice and calm while showing each example. This has to be my go to site cheers
Excellent explanation, thank you. And I enjoy your wry sense of humour.
Very clear to understand John..
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Exactly what I need to know. thank you. Excellent explanation!
Great vid,as usual!👏👏👏
Great video and information as usual!
Brilliant video. Much appreciated.
Thank you. You've answered everything.
Great Video! Please keep making videos like this they're amazing.
Having just installed an induction hob to replace my gas hob and had to run a new cable for it, am quite happy I used 6mm sqr. Cable is run in trunking between brick wall as this was the only way to get power to it. Very happy it won't be heating the wall up. I do have cavity wall insulation though so needed to uprate the cable.
Very informative, thanks john
Really useful John, thanks.
Exactly what I wanted to know. I'm a time served installation electrician with 40 years in the game and although I don't do much domestic I always thought a cooker switch was supplied with a minimum of 6mm. As John mentions this is a hangover from the old rewirable fuse ratings. Excellent explanation proving you're never too old to learn but I'd probably still run 6mm over any kind of distance just in case of containment or lagging etc or maybe they wanted some sort of unusually high rating oven. Saying that have you seen the price of 6mm T&E recently? LORD. It's very tempting to do in 4mm but it feels so wrong.
Amazing! Thanks for sharing this!
Respect John👊🏾 thank you very much
Thanks John..
Thanks just wiring one up.
Love the Hammond in the background..... 👍🙂
Hi John, excellent tutorial thanks!
I can now think of quite a few small domestic properties with 2 cooker circuits. Seems a pointless waste of copper. Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions.
Bugger!!,
That is very sage advice John, I've been un-necessarily installing 6mm² cable to free-standing ovens over here in New Zealand, on a 32A breaker.
Oddly enough, we have a 4 pin socket-outlet here, that I've never seen used anywhere else in the world, it may be possible it is used in Australia.
Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for your sharing 👍
Very informarive video, no need to waste money on larger cables for 2 MCB's =).
Thanks,
Hi John
excellent explanation once again
Great video. Very interesting Thanks for sharing 👍
I thought an advantage of having the old 6mm2 cable (back from when it used wire fuse) was that you could have a higher powered modern cooktop (like 11kW induction) without having to rewire. This is a theory I’m about to test so I’ll find out one way or the other (located in Australia). Thanks for an informative video. Cheers
Thank you for a very informative explanation.
Excellent educator
Great, very informative. Thank you.
I love this video. Thank you. It's so frustrating seeing people on forums advocating 10mm2 cable with 45a MCBs for cooker circuits without any rationale.
P JD You need to come to mine for a full Christmas dinner! Three ovens, eight rings and warming cupboard going full tilt. If the lights don't dim across South London it means I have forgotten one of the veg.
@@r.h.8754 22amps
@@spencerwilton5831
The old Christmas dinner fear. They will not be all on at once as thermostats cut in.
@johnburns4017 if they are all on, how long until it trips?
Thanks for sharing 👍
Great video
Great video with well explained detail. Helped me [DIY] plan my kitchen electrics ready for sparky. On the point of detail: six square millimetres is six times six which equals a surface area of thirty six millimetres. six millimetres squared is a surface area of six millimetres ;) (at least as I understand it?)
That's the wrong way around surely... 6mm squared is 36, (as in 6 squared = 36), 6 square mm is 6 square mm
I learned lots very useful appreciated
Methods in Australia - 4mm required, 32A RCBO mandated, isolation switch installed within 1.5M of device, maximum distance run of 20M, no de-rating. However, we've just done a run of houses with 3-phase domestic units. They are using a 4mm by three phases to get the induction ranges working properly.
Thanks john, that was great.
It's also been ingrained in my head to use 1.5mm T&E lighting cable....1.0mm is fine with all the LED lamps now available.
In USA we gage wire by CM, circular mills, & under 100 amps. terminal & wire Insulation is , set @ 60 C degrees .
Had no idea I’ve always used 6mm and some of the older houses have 10mm in which is terrible to worked with on alterations. So please I’m subbed
Yes I don't even think there are any fittings designed to take 10mm. It's terrible stuff to work with.
Around here in the old MEB region we were taught 45A rewireable and 6mm. Most houses built before the 1990's in this area were done this way
45A rewirable fuse with 6mm² cable doesn't comply, and never did. It's the same problem as 4mm and 30A rewireable - not permitted due to the 0.725 correction factor for rewirable fuses.
45A with a cartridge fuse or circuit breaker could comply, depending on cable installation method.
@@jwflame probably 7/044 TRS as I'm talking the early 1950's
Great video and very useful information, thanks.
Almost totally agree although how many times do we see a wee single oven melting the plugtop its hanging off personally alway bring fcu out the elephants nose...
Again great content JW,keep it up
thank you !!!!!!! exactly the info I needed, perfectly explained AAAAAAA+++++++
Nice vid JW , one issue is 4mm can cost as much and sometimes more than 6mm given it’s unpopular size.
Love it John many a time i’ve been doubted when installing 4mm for cooker circuits when installation methods allow.
I’ve lost count have many times fellow youtubers are pulling in 10mm supplies for hob/oven combos, which is ridiculous.
Well, a 10mm2 cable won't hurt anything... Except your wallet and your finders, I guess.
10MM is a BEOTCH to deal with in any normal accessory box. I agree with the person elsewhere in this comments section that says it doesn't belong in a domestic environment except as a feed to a specific outbuilding or second fuseboard. In which case you're not going to be terminating into an accessory box.. The number of electric showers that have exposed primary insulation outside the box either in the wall or roofspace because there's no physical way of doing otherwise even with a 47mm box... is countless
10mm is overkill, unless they have multiple cookers
6mm is the correct size if the cables are partially covered in insulation. You got to derate the cables based on installation method.
Is there not a regulation concerning box fill? I know the US version has a section specially addressing box fill and minimum volumetric dimensions.
Diversity is our strength.
Cooker switches used to include a 15/13 amp socket which would have increased possible load dramatically.
Brilliant video thanks. We are putting in a new cooker (induction hob and double oven rated at 10.7kW) and have been advised by an electrician that the existing 32A MCB needs upgrading to 40A and existing 6mm cable from CU swapped with 10mm! Doesn't seem right to me based on the diversity calculations and would involve significant works. The wiring is fairly old but all tested recently and I don't see why we should have to 'upgrade' it. Might seek a second opinion from another sparky.
32A will be fine for that. 6mm² cable can be rated to well over 40A depending on how it's installed so probably wouldn't have needed upgrading even if the MCB was changed to 40A.
An induction hob will use less energy overall compared to a conventional electric. Some do have higher power boost settings, but those are only used for short periods so won't be a problem.
A 4mm cable with a 32A mcb at CU. A hob and oven to be connected.
A hob can be connected directly to the 4mm cable. Fine. As you said, a 3kW oven will never draw more than about 13A, unless in a fault situation. So, the oven can be plugged into a 15A fuseless round pin plug and socket which is off the 4mm cable, behind the oven. 15A round pin plugs are still legal on radials on directly on a final ring circuit (can be on a radial spur circuit off a final ring). Using a normal square pin 13A plug gives an inaccessible fuse. Fuses ideally should not be inaccessible.
Here in Canada for most cookers with four element stove top and broil/bake oven, the circuit would be 240 V, 40 A with cable size 8/3 which works out to just 3.25 mm... Looks like the British Standard is strict for heavier cable, at 4mm with only 32 A.
Electric clothes dryer circuits here are 240 V, 30 A with 10/3 (2.59 mm) cable.
Uk cables are sized on cross sectional area, not diameter.
8AWG is equivalent to about 8mm2
4mm2 as in the video is approximately 11AWG.
@@jwflame Thanks for the reply!! As if it is not confusing we use AWG, they also use diameter in mm , instead of mm2.
Keep up the great, great work, JW !
As usual, an excellent video John, Love the way you say 6mm is installed just because some electricians insist on doing things the way they’ve always been done. I find the same applies to bathroom lights, why do they automatically get installed with pull switches or with plate switches outside the room when you can often install a plate switch in the bathroom as long as its out of zone 1 or 2, also ring circuits get Installed just because they have always done it that way
Myhippocampus I tend to do rings for utility and kitchen, radial circuits for remainder of house. 👍🏻Just makes sense.
Rings for utility and kitchens are a must in my opinion. Fair power distribution across a circuit is an important factor to consider when designing.
@@jaydenplaysguitar3896 if only people would actually design rings with "fair power distribution across the circuit" trouble is it never happens, rings are always installed in the easiest, shortest route from socket one to the next rather than considering how much load might be on one leg, which is normally the dishwasher, washing machine, kettle, oven, microwave all next to each other on the same leg. SparkyNinja did a good video on balancing rings and loading a year back
Heating up water & what not, its called cooking JW.😄😄😄
On our 1ph cooker circuit, we have:
Cooker
4 13A sockets, one of which feeds a kettle
Commercial dishwasher with a 20A option (not used), and, last but not least, the
GARAGE including a few fluorescent lamps, electric welder AND 3ph lathe and 3ph milling machine.
30A fuse.
And guess what ! Yeah, we don't use everything at the same time !
One case in the US I remember where the oven element DID transform to something that randomly demands more power... 240v oven element shorted to ground somewhere near the middle (which being a centre tapped 120-0-120 system didn't have much effect). No GFCI (rcd).. eventually water got in during cleaning, and began to saturate the mineral insulation... long story short, it still worked but the customer said it was sparking and kept getting brighter and brighter in the bottom of the oven. It''d burned down to about 1/3 of its length on one leg (the other was open circuit)... and was pulling about 30 amps on its own from 120 to ground. Quite scary as back then stoves used a 3 prong plug and grounded via the neutral, so any volt drop in the neutral was being reflected back onto the frame!
So are you saying there should be overcurrent protection on ovens, which John says there is no need for?
One of those infamous NEMA 10 connectors with the chassis connected to neutral. What could possibly go wrong? At least it's only 120V to ground...
@@johnburns4017 in the UK absolutely not. In the USA at the current time absolutely not. It was an anecdote vaguely related to the topic.
If your element goes that thermonuclear these days in either country something is going to trip before it gets to that point
@@TheEulerID indeed the very concept horrified me when I first made the move to the US
John, If you think 6mm2 is bad. Once you import that same freestanding cooker to North America and get the appropriate shinny CSA-us or, cULus stickers slapped on, then you have to install either 8.36mm2 (8awg) or 13.30mm2 (6awg) to serve that same cooker at the same 240v. I take very little issues with 6mm2 serving the cooker by comparison to the equivalent madness in the North American methodology.