The Edison Diamond Disc Record
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- čas přidán 27. 01. 2014
- The Edison Disc, also known as a Diamond Disc record, was a type of audio disc record marketed by Edison Records from 1912 to 1929. They were known as Diamond Discs because the reproducer fitted to the matching Edison disc player was fitted with a diamond stylus.
80 RPM 'Diamond Disc' records. Note the thickness of each record.
Edison had previously concentrated on producing phonograph cylinders but decided to get into the disc market due to the increasing market share of disc sound recordings, especially the discs of companies such as Victor Talking Machine Company (the format of which would evolve into "78 records"). Victor and most other disc record companies used side to side or lateral motion of the stylus in the record groove, whereas in the Edison system the movement was up and down or vertical (also known as "hill-and-dale" motion), as in a cylinder record. An Edison Disc Phonograph is distinguished by the diaphragm of the reproducer being located parallel to the disc surface. The Victor (or similar) diaphragm is located at a right angles to the surface of the disc such that the diaphragm is more or less parallel to the groove.
The grooves on an Edison Disc are smooth on the sides and have a variable depth. Standard lateral discs will have a more constant depth, but the sides of the groove are scalloped. As the Edison groove pitch (or "TPI", i.e. "threads per inch") was 150, a much finer grooving than that on lateral discs, Edison's 10-inch discs played considerably longer than Victor's or Columbia's -- up to nearly five minutes per side. The Edison Disc is also ¼-inch thick (supposedly to prevent warping), and was filled with wood flour, and later, china clay.[1]
Victor's system could not play Edison Discs as the needles used would cut through the recorded sound, and the Edison system could not play Victor or other lateral discs unless one used special equipment, like the Kent adapter. There is an example of a device to play Edison discs on a Victor machine.[2] The Brunswick Ultona and the Sonora Phonograph were the only machines besides the Diamond Disc player that could play Diamond Discs, but Edison made an attempt at curbing this (a phonograph/gramophone that could play Edison, Victor/lateral 78s, and Pathé discs) by stating "This Re-Creation should not be played on any instrument except the Edison Diamond Disc Phonograph and with the Edison Diamond Disc Reproducer, and we decline responsibility for any damage that may occur to it if this warning is ignored. - Hudba
what i found about diamond discs when i was a young lad, was that if you play them back using a stereo pickup, on a matrix surround setting, and then only select the rear speakers to play, it sounds amazingly crystal clear.
On the black etched label records, the reason one side has no label or info is because if the flip side was a classical our opera piece, the blank label side was a spoken description of what was on the other side, telling about the composer our piece of music that was being played
I've found 7 of these disks in my Dad's collection and had no idea how to play them - thanks!
I just picked up a stack of about 15 of these in an old estate sale for $5 for the lot. Haven't cleaned them up or looked through all the titles yet, but this video was great to find out some history about them. I bought them for photography props. :)
Your turntable is a beauty!! And complete with 78 speed! Thank you
Diamond disc play at 80 RPM
Hmm I was looking up Edison's Diamond discs and I came across this video. I really liked it.
i was too
you do know that to play a diamond disc you need a special edison diamond disc player right, because the grooves are up and down instead of side to side.
I’ll maybe arrive late but the nowdays record players have needles that go side to side and up and down, this was preferd so We could use stereo.
So, aside of damaging a lot the needle because of wideness, you don’t need one for it
You can just use a standard stereo cartridge and reverse the hot pins on a modern electric turntable.
It sounds remarkable for its age. 😮
"My Wonderful You" was also known as "Girl of My Dreams" {with different lyrics}.
Uncle Josh, aka Your Uncle Josh
With Edison diamond discs you must be extra careful not to get any(!) water on the edges as the disc's core will be compromised (i.e., the core will begin to dissolve. The surfaces are relatively indestructible but always wipe following the grooves. Although the original Edison disc sleeves instructed the listener to clean his/her discs using only isopropyl alcohol, I have found that this leaves a residue. Better to use Dishwasher (trademark) brand (their formula type without alcohol) being extremely careful to not get any of the fluid on the edge or into any existing lamination cracks (found so often at the outer edges on the earliest Edison discs, 1912-circa 1916 - the early half-tone etched labels.) Used this formula [I am not affiliated with Dishwasher) and technique on several hundred such discs as a professional early sound recordings archivist for over 25 years.
Is it ok to use a 78 rpm cartrige to play these. such as the ortopone 2M 78 plug and play.
Theatre organist Gaylord Carter often included this piece in his Flicker Fingers presentations, so I am familiar with the melody but had not heard the lyrics.
What silent movie did Gaylord Carter use this in? I've seen many of his "film concerts" as he called them, and I don't recall this tune specifically.
Whats the needle setup,and headstcok set up. i have same record player
That sounds really great for an Edison record. Very clear. And this was just a standard needle?
Those records are very interesting and they are very
thick.
Whats the earliest # you have? I've got 2567 but cant seem to find any records even close to that. Closest I've seen is in the 8000's
I used to collect them when I was
a young boy.
I read, that the paper label Diamond Discs will be played with a 1950's N78 stylus (65 µm) and the etched with a micro groove stylus (25 µm).
Have you posted the one label sided Edison? I'd like to hear both sides since I collect classical. It looks like a pre WW1 pressing. I could not read the title but reverse will describe the singer.
Caution is required when cleaning78
rpms.
Greetings from Everett WA.
I have a dozen of these records, several of them as seperating from the center core. Is there anyway to repair this? I was thinking of taking some wood glue, try to get it under the recordings and put under a stack of books for press the recordings back down to the core layer. Any suggestions?
It depends on how far it is separated. A heavy weight could crack the playing surface.
If slight, I use Elmer's Wood Glue Max to seal the DD to prevent any more damage.
Would you like to know why this record sounds so bad? It's because the grooves are being played back at the wrong angle. The grooves are modulated vertically not horizontally. So to play back these records properly you need a specially designed pickup to compensate for that. The modern cartridge is designed to work horizontally not vertically.
Do you have to set the turntable to a special setting for vertical groove records?
If a stereo cartridge is wired conventionally, then the accommodation can be
made AFTER the signal has been digitized AS IF the disk were stereo.
Assuming that the audio program that you have offers an INVERT tool, then
simply invert (which does not mean reverse) EITHER of the two channels. The results can be further refined (when listening to a 1:1 mono mix) by tweaking either level of the two channels. Simply adjust one until the lowest noise level results. Differently sized and shaped styli in different cartridges will often produce different 'best' results via different relative level channel settings. I don't mean this as an oxymoron. I'm referring to subjective balances between noise and a recorded signal.
When playing vertical grooves as it they're lateral, the relative level setting
can be set by tuning for loudest noise and lowest signal. When that's been
achieved, then just 'flip' the mode from lateral to vertical. The opposite works for
lateral grooves. Just as with the above example, twiddle until you get the
most noise and lowest signal, and then 'flip' the mode from vertical to lateral. For so called compatible grooves (in which the recording stylus undulated on some diagonal plane) choose which sounds best:
1) completely one channel
2) or completely the other channel
3) or some vectored setting
I hope that this in-depth reply does not comprise hijacking Larry's posting. That was and is not my intent. I'm just sharing information. I just don't yet have the time to produce splendid videos such as what Larry did on his informative and impressive presentation.
It's still 45 degrees off even with this method.
You can’t play these on a conventional player
In the head shell on the end of the tonearm, you switch to green and red wires around to play these records.
@@thisoldchevy2371 You can you just need a stereo cartridge with a 78 rpm stylus
Since I have a direct driven turntable
that plays 33/1\3, 45 rpms &78s.
I can speed up or slow down.
Can Can era...1800-1920....old west days... amazing to hear a song recorded over 150 years ago...😅...it is also to survive in great condition!!!
I've had the engraved ones before and I still got two of them pick a chicken one step is one side
They call those One.Sided.records,usually the other side has Print info of.where the record was pressed at.
Not enough weight on the tone arm and if you eliminate the horizontal signal it will also sound a lot better....
I have just started THE EDISON MAN CZcams channel, on which you will find music that Thomas Edison himself hated. Somehow it got issued!
I have that exact turntable. I’m super curious what stylus you’re using for the vertically cut Diamond Disc
I'm pretty sure they are using LP stylus. Edison Diamond Disc groove size are similar to LP microgroove records.
Is that three of the same album in the back?
A Sextuple Fantasy, if you will.
Thanks for this good 78 rpm record.Can you get it on. CD or officially on digital download?
It is an 80 rpm reproduction, not a 78 rpm record.
Those are vertically cut records and should be played with an Edicon reproducer, not on any modern phonograph which plays laterally cut records.
Could you potentially buy a stylus that converted the hills and dales to side to side type frequency properly?
It's not the stylus, it's the cartridge. You'd have to at minimum turn the cartridge 90 degrees and install a needle with the shaft bent into a right angle bend.
Not that i know of, even though a regular stereo stylus will already pick up on hill and dale grooves, just not as well as it picks up side to side. What i usually do is rearrange the cartridge wires diagonally, it makes diamond discs sound much better.
1:47 Because you're using a standard stereo needle does it mean that Edison diamond disc don't need a 3 mil stylus commonly used on 78 lateral cut shellac disc? The sound quality is good despite you're using an LP stylus (2:37).
No. The groove is MUCH more narrow on an Edison DD than lateral 78s. It's closer to the width of an LP groove.
What tracking force are you using?
6oz
wait the music on edison diamond disc was from wall e?
Randy Newman's music was mainly based on ragtime.
What sort of cartridge is that?
Was that Spencer who sang there?
You have to get a special
cartridge for them, correct?
I Have a Instrumental version of the great song "Wonderful One"! It`s one of the very few songs that chokes Me up! Mine has a very Melancholy Atmosphere to it!
Just out of curiosity can you play Modern records on that too
Of course, look at how many styly (stylus-es) he has on the left.
I've got a Edison diamond disc recreation
one of mine record has no text it all
Seeing that you have a lp120, how were you able to get it to spin at 80 rpm?
With the pitch control
I have a real player at my house, Jesus Christ it’s so much weight on the record it’s like a brick
Diamond discs cannot be played on a standard turntable! They had a specifically designed player for them. Playing these on a modern turntable can damage them and the the record. The original player needed to apply a direct downforce to the record. The damage has already been done but just a heads up (I’m assuming you don’t know this)
Yes. Lateral vs. vertical.
This is not a concern. Modern cartridges have high compliance in all directions including up and down. The original Edison diamond played at a very heavy weight to get maximum volume and there is simply no way a modern lightweight stylus would damage this disc. Only issue would be dimensional and with hill and dale this doesn't matter much anyway. So for anyone interested in playing these don't worry at all.
I can play it but I need to clean it
i found two
1 mil is not 1mm. It is .001 (1/1000) inch.
I have about three dozen diamond disc records in sleeves, always in my family - Does anyone want them?
Yes! Where are you located?
my record store sells them for 50c a peice
Records where are you? I will buy them all if you're close enough. I am in Pennsylvania
you should never use any water
Isn't that record a 78? That table only has 33 and 45.
No it doesn't. It has a 78 rpm option and can be ramped up to 80 rpm if necessary.
38?
I was wondering the same as Anti - how is it switched over to 78?
You push both the 33 and 48 rpm buttons to put it on 78.
This is an 80rpm disc.
Three copies of Milk and Honey?
ooooh!! you said the bad word in cleaning these!!! one rule only in 78rpm and diamond disc cleaning NEVER USE ALCOHOL!!!! it kills them!!! this video is a no-use in any historicaL format!!
You need to disable the comments on this vid, they are a rat's nest of misinformation
You obviously have access to the internet but you couldn't find out how to clean an Edison disc? NEVER use water.
I don’t have any of these and I know that water is nope but I am wondering what happens when you use water
@@OlavARod I've read it warps the disc. Probably messes up the grooves as well.
You need a specific needle to play an Edison diamond disc.
They use diamond needles specifically designed for Edison diamond discs. A regular needle for 78s will ruin an Edison diamond disc.
Edison ruined himself his superior system with his stupid business decisions. Soemway his system was used again for stereo vinyls.
Edison had some bad taste in music...argh!
Well it seemed to be like the Tefifon phono tape cartridge - no famous artists.
Edison diamond discs tend to not have any of the popular jazz artists at the time. Diamond discs appealed to mostly the rural farmer types, who tended to be uneducated and without much culture and taste or style.
You are ruining these by using water to clean them. You should only use pure isopropyl alchohol.
hamoohead like game cartridges?
If they're made from shellac, ipa will dissolve them. Never use ipa on 78's. Deionised water only, not tap water.
Andrew Littleboy, I am a serious collector. I am very aware how to care for 78s. Edison Diamond Discs are not shellac. Water ruins them. Look things up before you comment.
hamoohead Alcohol ruins them. Water does not. While distilled water is best, you also need something gentle to break through years of grease accumulation. Believe it or not, having worked closely with record archives in both museums and broadcasting houses, distilled water and an un-moisturising, un-scented soap are used. One archivist even uses a gentle dish soap which I might say does an excellent job at cleaning, returning the sheen and leaving no residue behind. It is even great at cleaning the labels using it diluted with hardly any abrasion. I suppose each person has their own technique and whomever owns the records can clean them how they like, however, having seen many national archives using the above method, it must account for something!
Sewell 27 you are flat wrong. Edison sold isopropyl alcohol with his phonographs to be used as record cleaner. If you use anything but alcohol on Edison diamond discs, the sawdust or clay core will swell and cause de-lamination starting at the edges. Stop ruining your Edison discs with water. Save soapy water for shellac.