ImmersionRC Ghost vs. Crossfire RACE MODE PENETRATION TEST
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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ImmersionRC Ghost is a new long range RC control link. It's got ultra fast updates, low latency, and kilometers of range. But how much range can you REALLY get from a 2.4 GHz transmitter? Let's find out with a head to head test vs. TBS Crossfire.
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4:37 should have used this opportunity to say "Im Joshua Stairwell, you're gonna learn something today"
... you're gonna walk down and up at today.
Bardwells new work out routine, test vtx at local hotel for leg day
This test has both Crossfire and Ghost in their high-frequency/low-latency "racing" modes. In this mode, Crossfire uses FSK technology not LoRa, due to limited size of the 900 MHz band. This explains why it has worse penetration than Ghost in this test. FSK has less penetration, mW for mW, than LoRa. In 50 Hz mode, where both systems use LoRa, Crossfire would be expected to have an advantage since it has lower frequency and can go to a higher output power.
The vTX was probably not actually outputting 800 mW because it was not in ariflow from the props. But I still am confident that video would have been lost at these distances. But the question of whether the control link would outrun video might still not be settled.
Makes sense, thanks JB
Super impressed with what Ghost seems to be doing (and guessing Flysky's new system as well). That said, if I already have CF, is there a solid reason to switch?
For racing, does range even matter? I would figure that most venues are setup for normal FRSky 2.4ghz.
Also wonder if telemetry matters for racing, if you are going to have goggles on. Seems like lots of people even just use XM+ Rx for racing, so they don't even have telemetry at all.
In regards to number of users that can be in the air, aren't either mostly limited by the 5.8ghz video bandwidth? Seems like there are only about six channel/band combinations that can be used without interference.
BTW, as a fixed wing pilot, I would really love to see ghost have something like the CF Nano, that can support 6 PWM channels without a FC. That is still a major selling point for CF for me. Seems like no one else has anything close to that it a Nano Rx form factor.
@@aviphysics at release the ghost atto rx has 4pwm channels, it's not 6, but should be enough for simple planes/wings.
Coming soon is a smaller rx, which probably doesn't have pwm. Worth asking immersion rc to build what you're looking for.
I'm also thinking that 2.4ghz might have more clean reflections in that environment, combined with wider band, made the signal enter the staircase straight, but reflected down. If so, that would probably apply to other places like bandos too.
Higher frequencies penetrate less, but it also requires smaller holes to enter.
I'm Joshua Bardwell and I'm going to get a lot of excercise today. 😂
Great video. 🖒
😅
well done immersion RC .. delighted for your hard work to bring this out and thanks JB
Thank you for the demonstration! this is what i was wating for!
You swiped my comment, no swiping.
Thanks Joshua.
Thank you JB! Looking forward to the next one!
I really like these test / comparison videos. I'd love to see more of this, especilly with motors and batteries
Would have been interesting to see how the dji tx and air unit would have faired in this test too.
Cant wait for the main test, keep up the good work. Safe traveling!
Didn't realize how much I missed your on the road hotel room videos until you dropped another one. Love the rawness of them.
Wow! I enjoyed the review! Thanks JB!
I'm a crossfire user and I think this was a good test in the context provided. Looking forward to more even though I wont ever change, crossfire has never failed me and CRSFshot is awesome.
I learned something today! Thank You!
Joshua Stairwell
Well done JB!..:) good workout too!
Yes I do wanna find out in so intrig. It's so excited to see who wins.
Excellent test, loved the camera showing the rssi on the ghost
I have only just bought Crossfire. Only then for 2 quads that I want to be able to fly behind a few trees etc ... nothing long range. Even so, with no intention of buying Ghost, I find this fascinating - can't believe they have managed this with 2.4!!
I was waiting for this! Thanks Joshua!
JB, you are a treasure to the hobby, your videos keep getting better...even while on the road.
Great experiment! Thank you!
I really like the enthusiasm you exude with your love of your hobby/work. Keep it up and by the way the information is well accepted for the Ghost.
This a good test for flying in areas with obstructions and also highish RF interference.
That hotel would have had a shit ton of 2.4ghz traffic and maybe some noise on the 900hz band its hard to know without a spectrum analyzer.
Its incredibly impressive that ghost did that well in a noisy 2.4ghz situation like that.
But a real world test would be flying in a bando without any rf noise apart from other drones.
The real stickler between ghost and crossfire seems to be the cost of receivers the system with cheapest full range receivers would be the best choice considering how many drones we pilots seem to acquire.
Exactly. I don‘t seem to see the benefits of ghost over crsf. Ghost seems to be more expensive and less tested, sticking to crsf for now.
Bro tell me about it, almost up to 15 running quads.. smh 🤦♂️ Addictive? Nah.. 😅
Love to see testing like this
Awesome demonstration josh
Can't wait for more vids on this! Excited to see the results. I'm pretty much sold on ghost though. Happy to support a company willing to go after the giant gorilla of the industry with these types of results.
TBS isn't a giant gorilla lol they're tiny. Going after a giant gorilla would be going after FrSky.
@@mitchellroberts7954 IN THIS INDUSTRY... TBS is a big player in our hobbies industry. and frsky? well, nope.. tbs sells more stuff than frsky..
tbs has: transmitters, receivers transmitter modules, antennas, planes etc etc etc etc.. frsky? transmitters (in which, in the fpv world, are tbs products shoved in the jr bay...) modules and receivers... ow.. and a small selection of antennas..
btw. i do not own a single tbs product, all my control link is frsky (QX7, R9, R9mm, r-xsr and xm+)
i am no tbs fanboy, i hate trappy, but truth need to be told..
Truth is when you show numbers otherwise is just opinion
@@DutchCommando Of course this depends on your definition of "giant" but I've never seen someone call a company giant due to the number of their products, it's based on gross sales. Well, I've never seen it until your comment. I'd be surprised if TBS gross sales are more than $2m per year. FrSky is likely closer to $100m but like Robert said, until someone posts actual numbers it's just opinion.
Edit: FrSky annual sales per their website are around $15mil for 2018. Seems low to me.
"FrSky owns more than 4000 square meters of office area, about 8500 square meters of production plant with high-end R&D and production equipment, and staffs over 180 employees in its 9 years of development. Facing the severe situation of international trade, the annual sales of the 2018 year reached 105 million in RMB Yuan."
Do you really think TBS has anywhere near 180 employees and 12,500 meters^2 of infrastructure?
You are putting lot of effort to make videos,, your breathing says that.. thanks Joshua.🤩
He's getting in some cardio
Hadn't expected any to fair well in a stairwell, Bardwell... good one!
Dude that immortal t looks like a dog chewed on it!
More like props but yeah lol
Nice job JB.
great work and constant work figuring out stuff so a lot of people dont spend a lot of money on bad products. im looking forward to ghost more and more now
Look at the state of that immortal T OMG
Thanks Joshua , I'm new to all this and you have taught me so much. I was going to buy Crossfire to pair on a Radiomaster but now I have watched your videos on Ghost and other reading up on it , I will be buying Ghost, there is so much I like about it.
Same for me
That's some old school hotel style JB stuff there. Good shit bro
Fascinating!
Fascinating. 🤔
Excellent!!!
I would of liked to see your normal frsky link as well on a similar wattage output. Maybe u can include it on the next test😉 btw your so lucky to have this stuff to test before everyone else. Im jelly
Security watching you trying to figure out what kinda device you brought into the stairwell...lol😂😅
SiN FPV 711313101S , bomb squad comes running in with a couple of dozen armed swat team, nothing to see.
I hope ImmersionRC will release Ghost for Frsky Lite module version. I must buy this!
I'm not sure if I saw such module on a render, but they will come up with one for sure..
They are releasing one, just not out yet
Most definitely! I’ll drop my R9M Lite Pro if so.
Get the adapter from BG. It’s 10$. Ordered it last night. Just waiting. Just got crossfire and next payday I’ll order Ghost. Can’t wait to see how well it works with my ORQA!! 🙌
Yes they will have a small module for xlite just not as powerful I’d expect and only one antenna vs two.
Amazing video. Hmm definitely interesting. Wonder how it compares to TBS Tracer.
Really, really interesting! Thanks for testing, Joshua! 😃
The test with 25mw probably wasn't until the failsafe with the Ghost... But, still... Pretty impressive! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
great test. be fascinated to see a simple showdown like this between Ghost and the dji fpv controller, also how rapid they reconnect after a fail-safe. crossfire is sometimes slow to reconnect
your immortal t looked so sad lol
Also, these bends in the Immortal T will cost a lot of dbs.
getting your stair workout in I see :D
I’m an old fashioned type of guy and still use EZUHF. However the advancements in RF tech intrigue me and I’m now using the Skydroid system on my Pixhawk builds. As Ghost, like EZUHF, is an IRC product I’d be interested to know if it’s backward compatible with EZOSD as used on my Xugong Pro 2’s?
Always a pleasure watching you work Joshua. Iv only ever ran the DJI controller and digital but this is still very interesting to me. What I dont understand is though is why don't they focus more on making analog video more solid in situations like that than the control link? Obviously there is a lot of improvement that can be made before the video link is as good as control ya know... Thanks for another great video man!
In my cellular experience 850 mhz was used for long distance especially rural 1.9 ghz is what penetrated building and especially elevators but had lower distance less than 50 % of 850 mhz.
Nice work out jb
I was hoping you would meet someone who demanded you whispered an explaination of what you where up to in that stair with that strange apparatus. :D
I'm Joshua Bardwell and I am going to melt your credit card today! Well thanks Joshua for the test and for making it fun as usual. Looks like the Ghost is pretty good and might be the solution for us pilots living in Europe forced to fly on extremely narrow 866mhz. That kind of performance on 2.4Ghz is just a dream come true, so I pre-ordered. And what's with the xfire guys going like "I got xfire, I am happy and I won't be switching no matter what". Do they feel like threatened or something? What's the deal with that? Anyhow congratulations and thank you to ImmersionRC for this apparently great and very promising product.
Are you gonna test their 433mhz version? I'm not sure if it's gonna be sold in the USA, but I'd be interested in seeing it vs crossfire as well.
I always like these "imperfect" tests, because the real world is never perfect and all anyone can ever do is report the result they got in their particular situation. Good testing! I'm a little unnerved by how fast the video dropped out. I'd be the guy with the OP setup and no business using it, because i'd fear loss of signal on a quad i don't want to replace.
Nice test. 👍👌
The thing I'm concerned most about is why didnt you just unplug the battery once you got to the bottom of the stairs and take the elevator back up to the 8th floor?
“We won’t be in a penetration situation if we go outside”
hahaha
Great test .awesome that ghost holds up better than tbs at 100mw in that 2.4ghz full environment. the low latency they offer and the advantage in less data loss seems like a good enough system for quads. it looks like 2.4ghz LoRa is good.
You covered it at the end, I couldn’t fly like that. Still had controls but no video. Like a kid after the spin running for the piñata.
Joshua is excited because he knows what Lora is , He knows what is happening here, it is just the Lora technology and bandwidth, here is the new king, and where TBS and Frsky will go, late. With the free bands available, GHOST is just the only way to go, flysky know it too
TBS is already there? These are essentially equivalent systems if you're not trying to fly 30mi+. Crossfire uses LORA. Take a look at the RF chips they use some time if you want to learn what they actually have from a technical perspective.
@@mitchellroberts7954 CF don't use Lora under 100mw, GHOST do it at full range, in EU the 868mhz band power limit is 100mW, 25mW for telemetry, CF use LORA up 150mW. You can use GHOST with LORA, CF with LORA is illegal in EU, somebody is selling you a bike, TBS just miss inform you and you can get a £5000 fine is you. TBS has good gear and is selling you smoke, because you are not allowed to use it,shit of company, that's it. SO GHOST in legal conditions, has lora, more range, more penetration, less latency, less price in receivers and modules,less interference, more range of telemetry. That's is, TBS=Smoke
Thanks
Is there any lap timer that you’d recommend?
Those firedoors are pretty thick!
"no my hotel is not a bando" lmao
That immortal T antenna looks like it has kissed a few props. Next time you test can you please compare antennas of similar state of disrepair?
Pretty amazing results nonetheless and I look forward to the rest of your testing. Thank you as always JB.
Fair point. But one of the specific benefits of 2.4 GHz is smaller and more durable antennas. I never met somebody whose Immortal T was actually pristine. Not after a few flights. So maybe the test is more realistic than it seems.
@@JoshuaBardwell I must be OCD because my antennae are all pristine, regardless of wavelength (sounds suss for a CZcams comment).
I’ve been looking everywere for the weight of the JR module. Could you please put it on a scale? Thanks for making Ghost videos
I was one of the people wondering out loud whether in general the apparent penetration we see with these systems may often actually be bouncing along a less obstructed path. I just want to make clear that I don't think anyone was actually criticising the test, it was a more general thought.
You could ask the same question about this test. Are the waves traveling through the possibly easier to penetrate doors, or going directly through layers of cinderblock?
I don't claim to know the answer, I'm just curious. Either way both Ghost and Crossfire are great by the looks of it.
Incidentally, both Crossfire and R9 are built on LoRa chips. Are they not actually using LoRa for some reason? Maybe a different flavour of LoRa?
I would really like to see you review the FlySky FRM302 module.
He is going to need a FlySky Paladin or NV14 to properly review it. Outside of those radios you will have to run the module in PPM mode. So no telemetry like LQ or RSSI. Hopefully FlySky and the OpenTx devs will change this.
Whatever system we choose, should we really care since we loose the video link much faster?
I wish you would do these JR module tx/rx range tests, with DJI digital max 1200mw vs analog vtx.
ill stay with tbs for sure ;) im not a professional race tho.
Would the Wifi in the hotel cause any issues? Is my thinking correct that is could interfere with ghost but not crossfire?
Soooo. Is there a Ghost 433mhz as well? Would love to know what it's capabilities are for fixed wing options along with Inav. Dont see 433 being much use for racing quads and high refresh rate low latency flying but for long range wings... interesting. Sucks dealing with noise and filtration issues for 433mhz but talk about a seemingly forgotten frequency.
It is possible to make that but it doesn't exist today.
Enjoyed you expressing your excitement at doing tests. I enjoy doing the same,... minus the camera and editing work.
i like the thought of the ghost but i am mostly wing pilot mid to long range some times 10+ miles i have crossfire micro and have not have had fail safe yet would ghost be something to look into just for informative purposes since i am invested in crossfire already
You say it’s not a perfect controlled test but it’s impossible to get a clean test with the amount of rf interference across the spectrum you need to test it in a Faraday cage or a lead lined bando . Use a good spectrum analyser to make sure your broadcast frequency is clear and it’s as good as can be. Always great videos
I can’t believe ghost beat Joshua Bardwell at a range test
It also depends on different bands pollution in your hotel. 2.4 might be poluted even worse if there's a WiFi network working in the hotel.
JB: hey guys I’m gonna head back to the hotel kinda tired.
Also JB:
Also being in a hotel perhaps the 2.4Ghz band was saturated due to the hotel wifi? Most bando scenarios wont be close to heavily wifi populated areas.
Realistically, the link needs to be able to perform in WiFi saturated areas.
@@JoshuaBardwell yes, ghost should perform in 2.4 saturated areas, but a hotel is over saturated on 2.4... and has almost no 900mhz interference.. put the 900 system in an over saturated 900mhz environment to compare apples with apples..
but still, the ghost performs very, VERY well in this very difficult scenario.
That crsf antenna looked a little jacked up too so Ill stick with my crsf
I'm convinced,but I just paid for the new v2 crossfire and I don't race and only fly with a couple people. I out run the dji system daily with the crossfire and its locked at 250mw with a 1watt update on the way. I need a reason to buy this. 😩
You have no reason to buy into ghosts. With crossfire you are golden👌
Dear Joshua, you made an awesome video, thanks for that. Could you also test DJI in the next test please? So ImmersionRC Ghost vs Crossfire vs DJI?!
Hey joshua im 13 and just getting into the hobbie any recomendations for to buy?
Urmom is a pretty good deal rn
How similar were the vtxs on the quads? I noticed the video was dropping out sooner with ghost than with crossfire. I'd like to see some tests that determine if and to what degree ghost is interfering with 5.8 GHz video. Ghost can have the longest range on the market, but it won't matter if it's drowning out your video with harmonics.
Zero interference. Just two different vTX. Not trying to test the vTX rigorously just show more or less the expected range.
“My hotel is not a Brando”. Good to know 😁
Any chance of a dedicated iNav build sometime, with full gps hold/navigation/hover and all the other goodies?
Yes, I already did it here it is :-)
czcams.com/play/PLwoDb7WF6c8nj7G3o9NJpzVPPTsw2z-Jy.html
was I the only one who thought he would be flying in the hotel? :D
Yes
ThomasB FPV no I was waiting for him to rip a few packs in there too 🤣
Ok, I watched. My perspective on it is simple. Unless your last name is Skywalker, you're not likely to outfly your link unless you're flying from or in a bunker. I hope to do a blast through the forests near my home soon now that the foliage is thin and I can set up both.
I really am hoping ghost comes close when all the testing is done but I have a feeling crossfire is going to have the advantage simply because it has been out longer and has had time to work out the bugs and what not. But Ghost will get there I hope. Still ghost is impressive to me . Thanks for the test, stay safe out there.
Hi Joshua,
Great vid, interesting results.
I know you'll probably spit when i say this....
I cant help wonder what the Frsky R9 would do in comparison to both Ghost and Crossfire? given that its the 'other' long range setup, and probably the one ALOT of EU flyers have given its price point.
I understand that R9 doesnt have race mode etc &I know your feelings with Frsky, so dont expect a video :-) Ha Ha
Was just wondering is all...
Thanks
YaaaaaaaaaS!
I don't understand why people that is interested to buy long range module would buy another thing that weren't crossfire kkkkk
your test will clarify everything! Tks!
Long range and ghost should not be used in the same sentence
Very impressive tech. A hotel is the worst case scenario for ghost. 2.4 ghz wifi access points everywhere.
But unless you're in a certain place, that's a problem that could happen more or less anywhere. Nonetheless, though, it's too much of a test to fly with Mavic bundled in, for example.
Joshua, pls would you know if ghost is coming in full size form factor for radios without tx module bay, similar to large tbs crossfire? is there any info available?
They have not announced any plan about that.
@@JoshuaBardwell thank you a mil.
I want to know when this will be in stock. I hate pre ordering and backorders because health may take me out of the game before i get to play with my toys i bought. For sure buying ghost as soon as it hits shelves.
You need a video on installing and setting up the ghost in the radio master t16s.
Very impressed with that ghost, I’m wondering what the price is going to be when it comes on the market.
ghost has some serious power man
Not even close to the 2 watts I get 🤷♂️
I know I’ve said this a bunch of times but I swear everytime I’m watching a Bardwell vid, he and I are wearing the same damn shirt. 🤣. I know the vid is a month or so old but I haven’t had a chance to watch it till today and just so happen to have my Kwadbox Vanover shirt on. Lmao 🤣