This whole thing reminds me of the breakdown Naoki Yoshida gave in the Final Fantasy 14 Noclip Documentary. He went into how he was put on the project to try and save the 1.0 version that was an absolute disaster at launch.
Creative work is very hard to plan for. Of course crunch is going to happen, but there's a huge difference between a project being overly ambitious - or even unintentionally mismanaged - and companies who deliberately exploit the rules to get lots of free labor at the end of a cycle. It's really great to hear you advocate for unions! Unionizing will help by forcing companies to be financially responsible for those decisions while also letting employees know what's expected of them in return. It just makes sense.
Yeah you got it in one. What's infuriating is that some companies counted on unpaid crunch. When Anthem happened we learned about the "bioware magic", an expression used by the suits about how no matter how poorly managed or poorly scoped a project was, it "magically" was always fine for release. The "magic" of course was unpaid crunch. Blizzard had a similar expression.
In a world where workers are increasingly differentiated from company owners and c-suites, and where avenues for making meaningful interpersonal relationships are being quietly closed, Unionization is always a good idea. Appreciate the realistic take on this, Tim.
As a programmer I can't be productive after 6 hours of focused work, I dedicate the rest of the day to team management. Regarding the estimation, I usually delegate the estimation to the programmer whom I assign a task to and add a personal offset made on the said programmer's previous performance. Time estimation delegation imposes a share of responsibility on the programmer who makes the estimation.
This makes me think of BG3. That is a studio with roughly 400 employees and I can't even fathom how much work there would be in having everything coming together perfectly with a hopefully smooth launch next week. Swen Vincke mentioned in an interview that a lot of his staff are huge Baldur's Gate fans, so I can imagine A LOT of them would have wanted to have one or several ideas coming to life in that game. How many darlings did they have to kill?:)
Certain rights workers have here in Scandinavia and I believe most of Europe, feel so obvious and are things I take for granted at my job. If you work overtime, you get paid more or get more time off later. Depending on the time of day, and if it's on a weekend or holiday, that compensation increases accordingly. You are also not allowed to work shifts too close together (miniumum of 11 hours in-between), just like you said film crews seem to have over there. Here it would be unthinkable to be employed (legally) anywhere and
Thanks for this take, I've crunched a lot back in the day and I would never call all of it "bad". There's a world of difference between crunch dictated by management and overtime driven by one's passion for the project.
I absolutely agree. Crunch itself isn't necessarily bad, provided you're compensated for it, and there's limits around how much of the development cycle includes it. Even if the industry doesn't unionize, there should definitely be regulations around overtime. I'm pretty sure basic labour laws should cover that, but "salaried" jobs always seem to somehow skirt those rules.
Hi Tim! I just wanted to say that I’ve been loving all of your videos since I found you in my recommended. I love your work and just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspectives and insights of designing games and the industry as a whole.
I really appreciate the nuance and experience here. I don't have experience with games, but a lot of this rings true for the time I spent doing video work in the 00s and 2010s. From what my wife has said about nursing, this is not limited to creative or tech fields either. There's an understanding that projects are difficult to scope and that the best laid plans will sometimes go awry, but when someone is asking for an extended commitment all the time and not providing any incentive, it becomes too much, even if its something you love to do. I really like the idea of mandatory time off, overtime incentives (ideally some combination of the two).
It seems like overtime, whether motivated by passion or forced by management, is generally bad for people’s productivity and overall well-being. I would think the health of my teams and overall diminishing returns would be motivation enough to choose reducing scope or moving out timelines, over choosing to crunch. I understand not everyone feels the same way though.
Most industries in the US have a busy season where people are expected to work overtime. Kind of how it is unless there’s a major economic or cultural shift.
Absolutely the most reasonable take. Many professions require awful periods of over work. The answer here is making certain overtime is paid even to salaried employees. Not only is it just more fair, it serves as a powerful built in incentive to only use crunch when there's simply no other option.
It's fine to do overtime out of passion on your project. It's not fine to force workers into extra hours with no recompense. Europe has good laws for it, you practically pay your workers twice for overtime. US has obvious problems with employee rights.
This whole thing reminds me of the breakdown Naoki Yoshida gave in the Final Fantasy 14 Noclip Documentary. He went into how he was put on the project to try and save the 1.0 version that was an absolute disaster at launch.
Creative work is very hard to plan for. Of course crunch is going to happen, but there's a huge difference between a project being overly ambitious - or even unintentionally mismanaged - and companies who deliberately exploit the rules to get lots of free labor at the end of a cycle. It's really great to hear you advocate for unions! Unionizing will help by forcing companies to be financially responsible for those decisions while also letting employees know what's expected of them in return. It just makes sense.
Yeah you got it in one. What's infuriating is that some companies counted on unpaid crunch. When Anthem happened we learned about the "bioware magic", an expression used by the suits about how no matter how poorly managed or poorly scoped a project was, it "magically" was always fine for release. The "magic" of course was unpaid crunch. Blizzard had a similar expression.
Unionization in the game dev industry is long past due! Love your videos and stories Tim! <3
In a world where workers are increasingly differentiated from company owners and c-suites, and where avenues for making meaningful interpersonal relationships are being quietly closed, Unionization is always a good idea. Appreciate the realistic take on this, Tim.
As a programmer I can't be productive after 6 hours of focused work, I dedicate the rest of the day to team management. Regarding the estimation, I usually delegate the estimation to the programmer whom I assign a task to and add a personal offset made on the said programmer's previous performance. Time estimation delegation imposes a share of responsibility on the programmer who makes the estimation.
“Crunch is always the result of bad management”
This makes me think of BG3. That is a studio with roughly 400 employees and I can't even fathom how much work there would be in having everything coming together perfectly with a hopefully smooth launch next week. Swen Vincke mentioned in an interview that a lot of his staff are huge Baldur's Gate fans, so I can imagine A LOT of them would have wanted to have one or several ideas coming to life in that game. How many darlings did they have to kill?:)
Certain rights workers have here in Scandinavia and I believe most of Europe, feel so obvious and are things I take for granted at my job. If you work overtime, you get paid more or get more time off later. Depending on the time of day, and if it's on a weekend or holiday, that compensation increases accordingly. You are also not allowed to work shifts too close together (miniumum of 11 hours in-between), just like you said film crews seem to have over there. Here it would be unthinkable to be employed (legally) anywhere and
Thanks for this take, I've crunched a lot back in the day and I would never call all of it "bad". There's a world of difference between crunch dictated by management and overtime driven by one's passion for the project.
This channel is fascinating! Thank you for the insight!
I absolutely agree. Crunch itself isn't necessarily bad, provided you're compensated for it, and there's limits around how much of the development cycle includes it. Even if the industry doesn't unionize, there should definitely be regulations around overtime. I'm pretty sure basic labour laws should cover that, but "salaried" jobs always seem to somehow skirt those rules.
Hi Tim! I just wanted to say that I’ve been loving all of your videos since I found you in my recommended. I love your work and just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspectives and insights of designing games and the industry as a whole.
I really appreciate the nuance and experience here. I don't have experience with games, but a lot of this rings true for the time I spent doing video work in the 00s and 2010s. From what my wife has said about nursing, this is not limited to creative or tech fields either. There's an understanding that projects are difficult to scope and that the best laid plans will sometimes go awry, but when someone is asking for an extended commitment all the time and not providing any incentive, it becomes too much, even if its something you love to do. I really like the idea of mandatory time off, overtime incentives (ideally some combination of the two).
It seems like overtime, whether motivated by passion or forced by management, is generally bad for people’s productivity and overall well-being. I would think the health of my teams and overall diminishing returns would be motivation enough to choose reducing scope or moving out timelines, over choosing to crunch. I understand not everyone feels the same way though.
Part of the reason I love these uploads is because they keep building on different themes. Very amazing content and I'm hooked.
Thanks again Tim for your daily talks ❤
Most industries in the US have a busy season where people are expected to work overtime. Kind of how it is unless there’s a major economic or cultural shift.
Absolutely the most reasonable take. Many professions require awful periods of over work. The answer here is making certain overtime is paid even to salaried employees. Not only is it just more fair, it serves as a powerful built in incentive to only use crunch when there's simply no other option.
It's fine to do overtime out of passion on your project. It's not fine to force workers into extra hours with no recompense. Europe has good laws for it, you practically pay your workers twice for overtime. US has obvious problems with employee rights.