4 Role Support Hero Tier List | Patch 7.25c Dota 2
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
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In this video Dota Alchemy discusses and ranks all the 4 role support heroes in the current patch from strongest to weakest.
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The intro with Jenkins rage on Pudge is killing it 😁
Poor hellficus
legends players need to see this video, pudge pos 4 im looking at you guys
I've actually seen too many pudge pos 5 in Legend bracket. Worse is that even when they hide in Dire trees by tower and somehow win lane when they land 2 hooks T_T
Didnt you want to say high ancient?
@@LieutenantSteel Of course the lane will lose. Cause you guys are pushing your lane during laning phase. Lol.
do you understand this vids are subjective? and does not apply to every bracket right?
@@ktyczynski Loooool. Sure. If that helps you sleep at night.
Spirit breaker sucks at playing from behind and sucks in the laning phase, which all together makes the hero volatile since if u lose the landing phase hard you lose the game. But if u can get past the laning phase not entirely dumpstered spirit breaker is phenomenal disabler and aggressor in the mid and late game. (Bkb piercing disables, chasing for slippery heroes, can apply pressure to anyone farming who shows on the map if played from ahead)
Also I think that he’s best in tri lanes, as it makes his kinda meh abilities an actual kill threat in lane and helps you pass the laning stage easier
well I stright skip to the point where Jenkin rage about pudge getting nerf every time XD
Thanks to you, now, my 3k mmr match making games will have pos 4 and 5 void spirit and ember spirit.
bruh i was already playing void spirit dp support :D
@Minaso well invoker 4 is pretty much the same as invoker 2 right? same skill build, probably different item
not sure if I'm wrong since I rarely played invoker
@Minaso Yeah I dunno what Jenkins has against support invoker. Hero is strong.
@@corylatimer And he needs a lot of farm and level. If you are lv 5 in 10 mins and enemies's cores are lv 8-9, you won't really do much in fight not like a lich or es at the same lv. Basically you just get inferior version of mid Invoker. And Invoker mid is out of meta now. That tells much about it.
@Minaso I hope when you said impossible, you mean like, 53% chance to lose.
That intro itself deserves million views and likes man. GJ jenkins.
How is Veno grief on pos 4?
Gives vision, slow, insane dmg output on teamfight, can take away farm from the enemy and farm hard spots undisturbed and yet needs no items to function.
Also very good at laning stage
yeah I don't get that one either
Don't get it either. Been spamming him as pos3/4 for 60 ish games now with a very high success rate. Maybe this is mainly for very high mmr?
Not as high dmg as you think. 1 dispel= hero is useless. Wards are meh, just good for lane push buy why would you need a 40 dmg unit hitting every 2 second instead of a 300 aoe nuke to push. Low ms. Low hp. Low attack dmg. The hero is dogshit and you wont have any impact because you will always be against dispels in lane.
to pressure lane he needs levels and I think that is the main reason to not pick him, he will be struggling against most supports until he gets his levels and if you don’t do well on your lane you cant even gank
@@Hedrymas he neeeds realy ALOT of levels, and he realy sux at lining as support. What skills you wanna go? Q+W? Realy bad. Wards? They arent realy support stuff, what you wanan do with them... haras a hero? They are a core mechanic, for puting them all around the line and farming while pushing... the hero realy dosent make sence at the lining phase... if you can get to lvl 10+ at reasonable time with some items, you will be realy good, but your team will need to carry you to this position, with is not good for a support.... (I.e. the same problema s pudge got, he is not bad in midgame if you can get there while not being behind, but you cant since the hero is shit at line, same as veno)
Finally, dude I’ve been waiting forever for this.
I also love Rubick, I mostly play pos 4, and I agree he is amazing.
I’d also like to point out that on top of making spells that he steals stronger, he also lowers the cast point, so if you steal fissure, there will be no animation before the spell is cast, it’s just instant.
Hey. Im kinda confused whats the diff between pos 4 and pos 5. Can you help me.
@@KokoyKillazzz on pos 4 (offlane) you are more an agressiv roaming tipe of role, you need exp and some kind of farm. as a pos 5 (safelane) you are totally there to babysitt your pos 1 and make everything possible for him and your team to get as much farm and space as possible ( and you buy the most wards if not all/support items). but its dota so there is no strikt line, everything between is possible.
edit: and on pos 4 you are also the guy who needs to destroy the enemy pos 1`s farm in the laning stage, make them the game as hard as possible, on pos 5 you make your pos 1 the game as ez as possible thats the biggest diffrense in mindset
Speeed when he hears veno nc isnt a thing. *cocks gun*
Please tell speeed in person that veno can’t jungle. I would love to see that shit
Donny: The full tier list for the current patch is now available.
Valve: 7.26 released
"Venomancer jungle is not a thing, never was"
Now speed is mad
Lmfao yeah! 😂
speed vs jenkins let's go
I feel his pain with pudge here, he got nerfed so bad that i lost 8 games in a row playing him even though i used to have 65%win rate with pudge, he is just bad, i tested all roles (except pos 1 since i dont want to be reported) 2 times and i lost all of them since the nerf made him not tanky enough (hence the 8 lose in a row)
Gorgc even played Pudge as position 1 quite regularly a couple patches ago and it seemed to do well. It's just dog tier now though you always have the option of being a walking disable and hoping your team is strong enough without you, but it's not a fun way to play.
@@LieutenantSteel i had 100% winrate with carry pudge too in high ancient, got reported though mutilple times for it. 7.23 was it? or 7.22?
My bro played 2 games as pudge position 1 with battlefury and it worked lol. Nigga just scales
The slow speed of hook hurts more than anything
Coming from the best Pudge player in the world ( 12k games 8-9k wins) yes I hate him now, they made him so weak, he does work on pos 4 but only if you're playing with friends who have good synergy with you,otherwise pls don't pick him
It's sad to see that Zeus is no longer considered a 4, it's newbie friendly and I had lots of fun with it.
The second the intro kicked in....i knew it was fucking pudge 100 fucking %. Holy shit it’s unreal
I think having a good POS 4 in your game vs a bad POS4 is one of the biggest differentiators.
Take a game I had recently, the shaker on my team goes 0/3/0 in the lane and spends 25 minutes farming a blink, to have 0 impact throughout the laning stage.
The enemy Rubick, goes 0/0/3 on the lane so isn't mega far ahead. He roams, he ganks, he pushes towers, he makes the game 4v3. Since our shaker and pos 1 are afk farming in woods as is their pos 1.
At 25 minutes the enemy team is 3 levels up across the board, Rubick is 1/0/19. Meanwhile shaker is still 0/3/0 but, he now has a Blink dagger.
At 35 minutes the shaker is now 1/7/3 and we lose the game.
STOP AFK FARMING IN THE JUNGLE AS A POS 4 I WILL HURT YOU.
how come invoker isn’t here? what tier would he be? I”m currently spamming him in ancient bracket and I’m 16-3 and I won 10 games in a row as a 4. Is it cause my enemies are dog or is invoker 4 good?
I had 4 pudge supsyesterday, I just jungle when they come now and they usually ruin my jungling BUT IM SO DONE.
Been playing Puck as a support with LD ( core ) . 4-0 so far ( 3 games as 5, 1 game as 4 ). Deadly when you combo the Dream coil with Savage Roar... Very simple to do if you have good communication...
Works so well against heroes that does not have spell immunity in the early game.
Has a great escape mech or initiation thanks to illusory Orb..
Cripples heroes that has "mobility" skills because of her Waning Rift Silence and her Dream Coil's "leash".
Phase shift lets her turn into a pseudo tank because it lets her dodge/ disjoint projectiles.
www.dotabuff.com/players/165006004/matches?hero=puck&teammate_hero=lone-druid&enhance=overview
As a dark willow spammer. I agree. But the witch doctor is definitely a better 5 than a 4. It depends because I was still able to dominate my lane with level 2 maledict. Basically, if you're paring up with a burst anyways, you can definitely win the lane and get an early level 6. Not even that, you can solo kill supports without even using your ultimate. Idk, maybe it's because I spam him too
Ogre best as 5, but if your 3 is not a traditional aura builder or tanky hero, then 4 ogre can resolve this by getting a crimson or pipe. Ignite is great lane push and he can afford these team items
How I wish they buffed pudge in a way that we could use the aghs u ti and be a master save (maybe even change aghs and always allow him to swallow allies
After playing a few games with IO, i need to say that it’s an S tier all the way as 4. My only problem is that, unless you’re in a team that understands your role and actually works with it, IO is one of the most boring and hardest heroes to play as pos 4. Low mmr is a place where no matter the position, someone is going to pick pudge, so imagine trying to coordinate a good IO ult or getting your cores to understand that they NEED you to not get destroyed in team fights.
Earth spirit spammer here (but 2.8k only)
I think ES get a quite huge buff recently.
The main buffs i feel really important is the lvl 10 rolling range, the str growth and the lvl 20 +3.5 sec silence.
First, with the rolling range got longer, l can slap either keen optic or telescope or aether lens and catch up with roaming and ganking without blink dagger (blink is kinda situational for him rn after the stun rework), this buff work well with remnant now maxed at 7 and has 25 sec cd (-5 s, yaay) so u can spam it a bit for rotation and doesnt get punished so hard when u use it all (the str buff work at here too, with rolling + stone u can stun ur enemies for 2 sec/stone and dont die because u r tankier)
And last one is the +3.5 sec silence, if u can magnetize whole team and survive u can silence em for 7.5 sec!!!, and do it again after 14 sec iirc (so 1 magnetize + 2 silence = 2.5 global silence)
Add the smash and u got 60% moveslow too.
These buffs still dont change his playstyle and u still fall hard at late game, but with +200 dmg rolling boulder talent, u can farm and get aghs which is huge to save people or pick off enemies carry
My turn to be the Peruvian minute guy : 36:57
In mid to high 3k I find pos 4 Rubik to be incredibly underwhelming. Perhaps too high of a skill cap for that mmr bracket
Finally Dota Alchemy talk about Dark willow
The biggest oversight with Dark Willow...
@Nick Smith because she is a 4, like rubick
The pugna nether ward lv1 is ridiculously strong in lane, you just can't spam spells with heroes like lich or bane.
Jenkin's favorite hero is at the bottom of the barrel that's sitting at the bottom of another barrel that's at the bottom of a landfill.
...The exact same place my favorite hero is.
Because it's the same hero.
waiting for techies to rise up XD
would be super happy if techies could reach at least B tier
Personally I think sand king should/can be a pos 4, cause the meta is trending to roaming 4's, he can scale well with levels and items. Maybe the only reason he's not a pos 4 is because he can't do shit in lane ((unless if he's played as an offlane)). Also think pos 3 sandking is B tier just because of the sentry not getting dewarded by quelling/tango. What do you guys think?
Edit: also, such a treat seeing Jenkins grief about how pudge is still a dogshit hero haha
instead of focusing on all the heroes, can you talk about more details on particular heroes on why they are good or not good? for example, what's the build for certain heroes, what ability to learn first etc.
tx all depends on match ups and what do you want to do during the game. Just think what items do you need. In most cases there are no must have items
Thx fellas for the content. Y’all are awesome. During this quarantine I have gone from guardian to archon 5. The main thing I have learned is get your stat items. It has made a world of a difference.
Jenkins, donnie best channel ever always entertaining makes me laugh and a lot of dota and real life knowledge love you guys so much and that pudge part had me.dead hahah 💙😂😂👌
Jenkins I think you should start working out to become a hunky like bsj
Perfect job, love the info and reasoning behind every pick! It would be great to do a summarize video of all S-tier (and A+?) heroes you picked for each role
What about:
Luna, Naga Siren, Enchantress, Invoker, Jakiro, Nature Prophet, Silencer or Zeus?
THE FCKING INTRO NAILED IT LMFAO 😂
Why are doing that to my boi xD
Where would you put warlock?
Just wanna say you guys are awesome, your content is amazing. You are at the forefront of disseminating the meta and you know it. Absolutely perfect for those of us who want to play dota half-decently, but don't want to necessarily study it like a craft.
I have a friend of mine who plays a lot of luna pos 4 recently we r doing fine... but is it good on a higher bracket? Or is it bad and he is just not getting punished for it? (Currently at archon IV)
Im anct 4. Luna is not a 4 anymore.
After they nerf the 3rd skill to affect range hero only, it is no longer good as 4. I had 87% winrate within 47 games plahing her as 4 in few last patches.
Can axe be played as a support? I've always wanted to try it out.
es is good but i dont think he is really that good. on team fight yeah but on laning stage not so much. that at least in my opinion. meanwhile rubick can solo kill the enemy sup or core and in laning stage and can trade effectively.
what did he say about bounty hunter, " ____ check him out if you are looking for replays"?? 24:13
What about Kotl, Invo or Jakiro Pos4?
Jenkins: I will care for you icefrog
Me: Same jenkins, same. :(
#Bringbackpudge
Wht do you think of Sniper pos 4 ????
Love the io S position explenation, ''its good patch for io'', ''it is S hero'' xD
What about the Sniper 4 you guys talked about in previous videos?
One of the most iconic heroes in the game with the most satisfying game mechanics being able to land a hook. Small pp for removing the deny mechanic since you no longer can laugh in satisfaction after 5 heroes jump ur ass and ur unable to deny in front of their face. On the other hand, 2 Omni slashes u kidding me!...
In my opinion Earth Spirit will always be S tier just because hes so fun to play even in a dog shit losing game, you can still have fun throwing out skill shot combos.
Who was the Bounty Hunter mid player Jenkins recommended? I couldn't tell what he was saying.
Chris luck
jenkins talking about tusks ice shards: "there are so many cool things you can do with this"
me: haha unintentional pun
No
Puck in my mind is higher tier, silence , short coil cd, hard to kill when jumped on and +200 spell range talent on lvl10 for glimmer and force staff is life saving
He also pushes lanes super quickly and can farm fast.
Why is Jakiro is not in the S tier? I am 5k and I love to spam this as a pos4 to bully my opponents carry. It’s surprisingly ranks and annoying. You can basically kill squishy supports like CM and lina at level 1 with liquid fire and trade well with heroes like ES, nyx. Phoenix is REALLY good countering Jakiro because it has a faster regen and longer cast range with higher dmg. For people who are around 2-4K I highly recommend this hero to climb up and you can always feed to tier 2 tower after you used up you regen(
is venomancer still a decent 3 or 5?
Nice video !!! I really love your video !!!
Yall should try out tinker 4.
the tier list is one of the best Dota Alchemy series
Idk about you guys but I have been winning a lot of WR games lately. It helped me gain at least 400 mmr. She's easy to lane with as 4/5. If you pair it up with a core that has a great damage, the lane just becomes a kill lane. And she has abilities that is good for trading hits/wind run. Most cores won't be able to do anything to her cause they can't hit her.
Shes hard to play in a clash doe
@@harrellt1405 true so I suggest you play with pick off kind of style. Or anti initiate with blink.
@@harrellt1405 or the in your face kind of wr. With bracers and ghost scepter
can someone explain why ember become support?
Can someone explain me why so much hate for my boi Lion? Genuinely, can you link the video where they discuss it?
is there really a difference between 4 and 5? if so what are they because i tend to view them as the same role really
elder titan-my fav hero in doto
33 is finding his chen
I dont no y but in my legend bracket, there are so many pro pudge players and they can always easily crush the other side...
😂
Great tier list, Dota Alchemy. More power to you, guys!
no jakiro.. really ?
Disruptor dazzle not good support :( ??
I know these takes time, but I would love to see both Jenkins and Donny have a tier list and compare
THis is the guy from gema leap?
Where is position 4 sniper on this list?
Whats up with Prophet 4?
Jenkins, if you're reading this, what would be your own rework to Pudge that will make him an actually viable hero to play with whilst having a dedicated position. No "remove Pudge" answers please 😂
Intro earned a like XD
I've been telling people Weaver aghs is legit ever since he got it, glad it's finally getting recognised
Is Doom pos 4 not viable?
I rage the same way Jenkins is raging about pudge when I look at my boy Tiny. Feelsbadman
warlock not a pos 4?
so what position to #spreadtheplague veno ?
Where is jakiro? jakiro is better on 5th pick?
sniper pos 4 is probably tier b or tier c
Where are Jakiro/Lich as 4?
now its time for the next patch
What would you combo with Io as a 4?
Lc and underlord are pretty good offlane heroes with io but i feel like you need a mic if you wanna use the ulti effectively......
the only thing Pudge is good now is when you smurf it into lower bracket like herald to archon since they're rarely sidesteps while playing,
This happens always :D 36:07
38:02
GameLeap.Speeed: am i a joke to you?
Clock is such a brilliant 4. Love these videos♥️
Man if I had all these super cool hero customizations I'd be 1k mmr higher just from psychological damage
Shots fired at speed's jungle veno guide? lol
i play a lot of veno pos4 and do pretty well :/
Where is silencer?
LMFAO at the Pudge rant!!
Where is invoker pos. 4?
Not having pudge picks every game is heaven. Thank you Valve.
Jenkin's foot rub for Ice Frog. Let's make it happen!
what about sf orb of venom utility build you guys
Orb of venom was nerfed. Only melee use it now for slow, not for dmg overtime
Hello, i recently started playing dota and im busy setting up my hotkeys. However i cant find the key you have to use in order to deny your allyed heroes. Can someone help me?
Avak Hagopian all attack commands work with the “A” button, just like most RTS games. When I deny, I hit A then left click to deny the creep.
@@francobuffoni2719 yes but how can i change the button for that? is that possible?
Avak Hagopian it is, go to hotkeys in the options tab. Look for it, it’s there
Franco Buffoni whats the hotkey called?
that intro got me liking this video already :D
Who else just fastforwarded to ember and void pos 4.
wtf i didnt realize that pugna Ags removes the cooldown on ult
Welcome to 2013