“SSPX Roundtable” (w/ Dom Dalmasso, John Salza, and Andrew Bartel)
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2023
- In this video Dustin is joined by Dom, John, and Andrew to speak about the SSPX.
Dustin's channel:
@Dustin_Quick_Holy_Smokes
Thank you for watching, we hope you enjoy the show!
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I watched this over on Dustin's channel. He's a great guy. Thanks for this.
They sound like a bunch of Calvinists rehashing old myths. They have no Church authority, no theological training or don’t have an apostolate. like St. Paul wrote, “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal”.
One great resource for those hesitant to go to a NO Mass, which you've referenced before, is Misshappycatholic's conversation with Fr. Eric Gilbaugh on the roman litrurgy, what actually isn't as traditional as people think, what was restored, and the part 2 that talks about what a reverant NO looks like. Even though I didn't think the NO was heretical, had learned some stuff about the history from sources like Michael Lofton, and have the blessing of having a Mass at my parish that has gotten pretty close to St. John Cantius-levels of beauty, that first discussion with Fr. Gilbaugh was very beneficial for me.
Thank you. This is just the kind of source I've been looking for lately.
The claims made about the novus ordo are the same as those made for socialism: "Everyone else who tried it out before didn't get it right, but we've figured it out and will get it right. Just give us more money and more time.....trust us."
@@andrewrolwes6034 Then maybe we should give socialism another chance, as I've seen both the TLM and the NO done beautifully in my diocese. Or you can lay off the silly rhetoric that reveals your ignorance.
@@vaboston
Why the ad hominem attack V.A.? I'm a novus ordo Catholic born and raised and attended the most "conservative", "reverent" NO in the diocese I reside in for years. Every small step toward a "reverent" NO was one step closer to the TLM, but for every "conservative" enhancement, the reverence was invariably smashed by the hand-shaking and back-slapping that would go on during the ridiculous "kiss of peace", every time.
The partisans of "conservative" novus ordoism have to constantly protest how reverent the NO *can* be, when no such thing is necessary for the TLM, it simply *is* reverent. The only way its not reverent is if the priest does something the rubrics and the spirit of the tradition exclude.
@@andrewrolwes6034 First, I object that the TLM is simply reverent if you just follow the rubrics and spirit. I've been to TLMs where the priest, who I know loves the TLM, was saying the latin so fast it felt like he was trying to get to the end as quickly as possible. Rushing through the Mass certainly strikes me as irreverant. Was that his intention? Probably not, but that was the impression I got. Second, if following the rubrics and spirit of the tradition were what was required, that applies to the NO, too. My parish does such Masses, as do two others I've attended multiple times in my diocese. St. John Cantius in Chicago has streams of their NO, which are beautiful. It's not a matter of "can be;" they are reverent. Third, your examples of irreverence with backslapping and such don't even apply to the Mass but to the parishioners. Antics and irreverence among the parishioners can and do happen at the TLM, too. Noisily flipping through pages of your missal, chitchatting, not doing anything to calm your child, these are simply things that happen, no matter the Mass. I stand by what I said. Your comment indicates ignorance. Fourth and potentially even worse, you don't seem to see the potential implication of your comparison, which is that the Church can officially and habitually bind someone to practice something as harmful and erroneous as socialism. Why, then, remain Catholic? Why trust a church that tethers the ship for 60 years to something so false and allegedly irreverent?
I loved visiting St. John Cantius in Chicago!
One of the best round table discussions out there!
So the Pope lifted the excommunication on the SSPX bishops, but John salza has not.
And the EO in 1965.
Thank you Dustin!
The ecclesiastical issues with the SSPX actually led me to privately hold sedevacantism for a couple years, while still attending an SSPX chapel because "valid sacraments." Their position is simply untenable and schismatic.
I've just recently, upon confessing my own pride and schismatic mentality, stepped away from the chapel I'd been attending and returned to my parish, which has a reverently done NO. I was at the Palm Sunday mass (SSPX) and began looking around wondering just what I was doing there...And these videos by the Logos Project and others contra Radical Traditionalism have helped me.
God bless you my friend!
You are indeed schismatic with Pope Benedict and Pope Francis positions regarding the SSPX. Now that Francis just yesterday fully endorsed the SSPX and declared they are not and never have been schismatic you seem to hold a schismatic position and are in effect outside The One True Church by any objective analysis
@@MacheteMambi don’t blindly buy into the self-appointed CZcams magisterium my friend.
If you want to show you are correct you have to be accurate. Not being accurate is a disservice to the society’s position. You should want to do the society justice, not a disservice.
You said: Pope Francis said they “never have been schismatic.” The following text means that he thought they had been at one point (I think one still is if they fully adhere to the society’s position as JPII said, but that’s not what we’re discussing at the moment):
“The faculty - granted by the indult of the Congregation for Divine Worship in 1984 and confirmed by St. John Paul II in the Motu Proprio Ecclesia Dei in 1988 - was above all motivated by the desire to foster the healing of the *schism* with the movement of Mons. Lefebvre.”
~Francis
You also brought up Benedict XVI. Well, before he was pope he said this:
“If once again we succeed in pointing out and living the fullness of the Catholic religion with regard to these points, we may hope that the *schism* of Lefebvre will not be of long duration.”
~Cardinal Ratzinger
Steal man your own position. Not doing so makes you look bad. Peace.
@thelogosproject7 You took the words right out of my mouth and Kennedy HALLs mouth. LOL. You are looking at the mirror. Your anti SSPX propaganda is SCHISMATIC and defies what the Holy Father and Pope Benedict wanted for the SSPX. FULL ACCEPTANCE by the "CZcams church doctors" Your popeXPLAINING just got more difficult. LOL. All kidding aside you are a Catholic Brother. Stop it already. It all sounds very petty and as if you had a personal grudge. You should be like most of us. JOYFUL that we have a jewel of the Church, the literal rite attended by the Saints, right at any SSPX PARISH. If you haven't experienced a high mass at SSPX THERE IS NOTHING LIKE IT. The ecclesiastical Dei nor Diosece TLMs are not the same. SSPX is truly a piece of the past preserved for our future generations. And what an amazing group of priests. Wow. Holy best trained priests I've ever encountered in this NERVOUS DISORDER Epoch.
@horrorhawk3701 You are late to the game my friend. The ex communication was lifted by Pope Benedict after determining it was unjust. Pope Francis offered faculties to the SSPX. YOU ARE IN SCHISM WITH OUR POPE. Seek Pope Francis as the authority in these matters lest you are outside Communion with the ONE TRUE FAITH. Repent for bearing false witness and SUBMIT to our Holy Father's authority.
I am so sad about Archbishop Vigano😔
I wonder if the men in this video who were confirmed or married in the SSPX had these sacraments ‘redone’ once they rejoined the Church.
Depends on the sacrament. Validity and liceity are distinct.
@@thelogosproject7 I understand Baptisms are valid, but Confirmation and marriage would seem to be invalid according to Mr. Salza.
Marriage yes. Which is why hundreds of people who left the SSPX either received annulments or had to go through a radical sanation (establishing the marriage as valid). But with confirmation the SSPX administers it with their bishops. Although they should not be operating, it is a valid sacrament.
@@thelogosproject7 Thanks for that information.
So, SSPX is a protestant church. For me , it’s an easier way to understand this church group. Yes, like any protestant group, they are Christians - just not in communion with the Holy See.
So, although their situation necessitates a Protestant ecclesiology (where the individual apart from the communion of the church determines what the faith is and is not), they are not Protestant strictly speaking. “Protestant” and “Catholic,” although indeed pointing to two different ways of understanding faith, are not the only two categories of Christians. We know this because the Orthodox are not Catholic and not Protestant (although you can say that they protest against the claims of the papacy). So in its full meaning we can’t say they are Protestant. At best we can say they have Protestant tendencies or practices. But the SSPX is indeed NOT in full communion with the Catholic Church. And it’s even more precarious of a situation for them since they claim to be not just Catholic, but the only fully authentic Catholics. Such a claim is insanely ironic since they are a self-enclosed minority that refuses to commune with the wider Church (which is the perfect antithesis of the meaning of “Catholic”). This necessitates that they see themselves as the one true Church, if not in theory, at least in practice.
Wait a minute. You guy say that being in the Church is submitting to the Holy Father. So I conclude that you will
also submit to getting rid of the Old Mass since this is what the Pope wants.
You realize John Salza, like I, lives in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee where there are multiple diocesan approve TLMs, right?
Johnny Salza. How soon before you head back into SSPX Chapel now that Pope officially endorses and embraces The Order. The Lions of The One True Church? LOL
@nadreb13 How do you know his didn't say he EMBRACES ORDER? Conduct towards something usually defines what we feel about something. Pope may have ulterior motives. I don't know. But he has certainly EMBRACED the SSPX by giving them faculties, meeting with head of order, sending an emissary to live and inspect the order. And now this Emissary who is a Bishop, lives permanently with SSPX and is a first hand witness that Pope said SSPX is fine and not in SCHISM.
Vitus Huonder is not a legitimate source of official Vatican teaching and does speak with the voice of the Roman Pontiff.
This show didn't age well did it 😂
How so?
@horrorhawk3701 You are late to the game my friend. The ex communication was lifted by Pope Benedict after determining it was unjust. Pope Francis offered faculties to the SSPX. YOU ARE IN SCHISM WITH OUR POPE. Seek Pope Francis as the authority in these matters lest you are outside Communion with the ONE TRUE FAITH. Repent for bearing false witness and SUBMIT to our Holy Father's authority.
@andym5995 You are late to the game my friend. The ex communication was lifted by Pope Benedict after determining it was unjust. Pope Francis offered faculties to the SSPX. YOU ARE IN SCHISM WITH OUR POPE. Seek Pope Francis as the authority in these matters lest you are outside Communion with the ONE TRUE FAITH. Repent for bearing false witness and SUBMIT to our Holy Father's authority.