The most CONTROVERSIAL feature of Empire at War
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2020
- 🔶 We explore more into the AI system in Empire at War, is it the most controversial feature of Empire at War? Or is it more fair than we think?
🔹 The Family Bovine | / thefamilybovine
What are your thoughts on the Hard AI in Empire at War? Do you think it's fair? Or do you think there is something more going on? Let us know in the comments down below.
The game featured is Empire At War: Fall of the Republic, and is one of the Empire at War Expanded series. It is a mod from the creators of Thrawn's Revenge, takes a modern look at The Clone Wars series, with new factions, new ships and new types of gameplay. Along with a whole new take on the Skirmish Mode & Galactic Conquest. This is NOT a Thrawn's Revenge 2 and is it's own mod.
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🔸===== FEATURED =====🔸
🔹 CoreyLoses (Mod Creator) | / coreyloses
🔹 FotR Mod | steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
🔹 Editing by The Family Bovine | / thefamilybovine
🔸===== ASSETS =====🔸
🔹 Intro/Outro Music | Home - Resonance
🔹 Outro meme'd by | / freightmytrain
🔹 Music by DOMINANT | bit.ly/eckstoomusic
🔹 EcksToo Discord | bit.ly/eckstoodiscord
=====Tags=====
#EmpireAtWar #Praetor #Noob - Hry
Hey all, if you want to learn more about this fascinating topic, you can read this article made by Bob, who handles the AI in Thrawn’s Revenge & Fall of the Republic:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1171759326
The best clonewars era mod
Me wondering why the ai has a malevolence in week 1
WolfDiamondShadow 2 SSD’s is normal for Penestar Alignment. They are meant to be one of the strongest early game factions, while the NR is the late game faction.
@@nicholaswong6737 this is how you win all battles against ssd fighters and bombers
Gaming With Josh eh I know that. I ain’t the one wonderin
WolfDiamondShadow Those are hero units. One is Warlord Zsinj’s Ship. And the other is that Grand Moff’s, the guy with the Pentastar Alignment.
*Loads up Fall of the Republic Galactic Conquest* 10 secs later: E N E M Y F L E E T A P P R O A C H I N G
Do you think if this game was made today, the AI wouldn't cheat?
I wonder about this because I recently watched a video about the AI in Halo Wars 2, which is obviously a much newer game, and how it manages to be difficult without cheating.
Interesting question, since AI systems in games are definitely one of the more complex pieces of a video game!
Really depends as their is lots of modern rts games today that use cheating AI, Age of empires, All total wars,etc etc
@@aidenrogers1468 AoE has gotten AI updates over the past two decades. I don't think it cheats anymore. I could be wrong though
Have you watched the channel AI and games? It talks about the challenges that Starcraft 2 AI has. It requires more of a server than an algorithm you can code.
Soft cheating is okay... reduced build times, increased income, that sort of thing. That's acceptable as long as it means you, the player, can't just cheese your way to an easy victory. If it makes you think about strategy while playing a _strategy game_ then it's a fair call on the part of the developers.
The Awakening of the Rebellion mod seems to have made extensive improvements to the AI. Probably the best AI I've played so far. I know it still cheats for credits, but it actually uses basic tactics and planetary weapons in battles. New Jedi Order, as much as I like that mod, probably has the dumbest AI I've seen. Really unfortunate, kept me from finishing any GC because it was too easy. Corey's mods have decent AI. I can tell he has made improvements over the base game.
In general:
Easy AI: same income and build time as player. fog of war revealed
Medium AI: +33% income and +33% build time. fog of war is revealed
Hard AI: +66% income and +66% build time. prioritizes destroying and capturing mines in skirmish. fog of war is revealed
some mods like yoden mod add a damage multiplier and health multiplier as well which increments damage and health for the AI by 33% and 66%
Really interesting facts here Yayo! Thanks!
Take advantage of that need to destroy those bases, guard them with a few capital ships plus support and fighters, that extra income doesnt matter once you're at fleet cap and you can just keep destroying fleet after fleet until eventually either your ai ally pushes through or they run out of ships
They have Fog of War revealed on higher difficulties?! That’s hardly fair!
I remember playing Republic at War mod, I went into skirmish on easy mode and the enemy had already tech up twice before I even finished my first tech up. I was like "Uh, what happened?"
I used trainer and stop AI before i already
@HaloBaller9813 I've also had moments like that in the Yoden mods. The AI would spawn a massive fleet of capital ships and supers very early, and sometimes after they spawned those fleets they would just go brain dead for no reason like "Uh, hey AI, you gonna do something else now?"
The only place that I can find the AI to relatively consistent is in galactic conquest.
@HaloBaller9813 Or even this: Sometimes the fleets the enemy AI send are not fleets, but a conga line of individual ships. I lol'ed at that.
Hey EcksToo. The AI gets at least a x2 or x3 multiplier for their cash. I discovered this when I had an AI on my team and I pressed “P” ok the keyboard it shows the players and frame rate of the game and how much money one has (and it allies, but you can’t see the enemy’s money) that’s how they can acquire things so quickly.
Imagine starting galactic assault as Galactic Republic and see an AI hammering Kasshyk with 45 Lucrehulks, The negotiations were short.
You made the mistake of not going tech 2 immediately with that 8k it really helps the faster you get to venators the better
TL;DR 2000's AI sucked so they allowed it to cheat to make up for things.
It is interesting to see the differences in cheating between games. Some are super blatant, others are harder to notice. EAW is in the middle IMO.
The game supreme Commander has a difficulty called "cheating" difficulty. They have nukes within the first 20 minutes of gameplay
Yeah the skirmish AI is quirky, to say the least. One game the AI had 234,000 credits and wasn't using them, it had plenty of pop cap so...
Anyway, Charlie great vid and the subjugator always makes for a nice cheeky thumbnail.
Ironic that you picked the one mod in which the AI cheats the LEAST to demonstrate this. Difficulty modifiers in EAWX GCs only affect credit income. The base game and other mods apply stat modifiers against you and in the AI's favor on Hard. So if you've played RAW, for example, in which the game is already CIS-skewed because of starting forces, good luck defending against multiple Lucrehulks or Providences at a stat disadvantage.
(This is reversed on Easy, which is why your units rip through enemies like wet tissue paper.)
I'll further note that this is after recent patches "fixed" the skirnish AI in EAWX. Prior to about 2.3.4 of Thrawn's Revenge, even the Hard skirmish AI would not capture resource asteroids, making it laughably easy.
Really good point. Fall of the Republic has been one of the best for that. This is why a lot of praise must be given to CoreyLoses and his team for super polished mods like this. That being said, I think because of the smaller amount of factions and ships for Skrimish, this problem becomes a lot less pertinent.
i was on Easy Mode on the EAW remake mod
the Rebel Ai (and this was on skirmish) suddenly came in with a stolen super star destroyer before i could even unlock it
was it a full on 19km MOBILE MAP? or the Pride of the Core?
@@aurorathearcticwolf4243 rebels can't build the executor (even with them having Kuat) so it's either A: The Viscount, or B: the Pride of the Core
SteelHawk58,836 this is skirmish he’s talking about so the Lusankya (might be a special merchant dock ship) tho it could have been changed when the Viscount was added
Most SSDs come from merchant docks in skirmishes in remake and its pride of the core. Viscount I believe is in the tech 5 rebel station
@@sternguard8283 >tech 1 Rebel base
>Rebels instantly get the Viscount
nigga, read
One thing I wish mods could fix in this game is large ship movements. It gets so damn annoying trying to maneuver larger ships when they are programmed to do a standard rate coordinated turn when they do not have to in space.
"Attack their starbase" ... "Aight I'ma head out."
So many "Melificients." :-P
Corvecks and arksons too!
And Prodvinces
I had a vanilla EAW game end with not only three Darth Vaders due to a glitch, but the Rebel AI I cornered to finish the entire campaign spammed so many corvettes my ships couldn’t keep up. And this was on the last planet.
I had a space combat where I couldn’t find a single fighter so i thought to auto resolve and lost 3/4 of my fleet
didn't you know that AI fighters gain a death star laser when you put auto-resolve? 🤣
So the AI doesn't really research, as much as it is just a countdown on the next tech level to be unlocked.
I was im a GC, battle using the Eclipse (Remake mod), and couldn't win because the A.I had ships off the battlefield.
I remember when I was playing as the Chiss with around 15 planets and I had to fight off around 30 Viscounts at one of my military strongholds. It was annoying, but the carnage was legendary.
I dont have the money for a computer but I really love watching the videos of this game
One of the most bullshit things:
Hit auto resolve when you have 10 ATATs and the enemy had a single barracks. You lose 9 ATATs
Why I don't trust auto-resolve in any type of battle in any RTS. Sure those personal carriers could take on a super star destroyer. I'd love to see the battle.
Yeah the auto resolve was always penalized the player. Don't know what the formula is but it was designed to "encourage" playing the tactical game instead of just AR all your battles as an exploit.
I lose 7.
Cheating AI in RTS is not really uncommon, especially at higher difficulties. Pretty much only RTS where i never could identify if or how the AI cheats were Age of Empires II.
I thought it would be corruption, then remembered not all mods have/use corruption
Most mods avoid corruption.
With the amount of times I've played this game I've not once had a issue like this with AI then again i prefer vanilla over modded
Me sees victory class star destroyers fire blue laser bolts. Me: Happy noises
You can see the income of teammates in skirmrish by pressing p
FotR is basically unplayable as a casual player because of the time to build and size of the smallest galactic conquest scenario. The ai super cheats and wipes you out quite effeciently
AI in both TR and FoTR doesn't cheat in units, it's just competently made.
In thrawn’s revenge 2.2.4, I played as new republic on hard, had like 6-7 planets left, and then the game crashed, couldn’t get the mod working, finally got it working recently... old save also corrupted even though I had probably 40-50 hours on it... rip
I don't like the "missiles pass through shields" mechanic - which is why I like Thrawn's Revenge.
I do. And missiles and torps passing through shields is lore-friendly. Particle Shields protect against energy blasts. Torps and missiles get through. Ray Shields protect against those.
Shields are like bullet sponges in some mods, though. And making it so missiles and torps can’t pass through shields makes taking out large targets a lot harder. When ya know, you go at it with a ton of BOMBERS? It’s like CAN YOU F*CKING DIE ALREADY?!
I hate that.
I was under the impression that the shielding was the other way round - ray shields protect against lasers (hence why they had to torpedo the Death Star's TEP) and particle shields against physical object, but that's beside the point.
I just like not being hurt while my shields are still up. And if that's the same for my enemy, so be it. At least they can't take out my large ship without de-shielding it first.
random guy Eh, it’s what Wookiepedia says.
Soooo are we gonna talk about the sync errors or what?
I think the AI could get a damage, shield and health multiplier. In the Thrawns Revenge mod it is 1.2.
The AI in pretty much all mods is stupid aggressive. Even on Easy! And I’m not just talking Skirmish.
lovely stuff
“Arkiscents”
on the galaxy at war mod the hardest ai will instant upgrade not 1 second literaly a frame and upgrade. i have seen one go from tech 1 to tech 5 in 2 seconds it was insane and totally impossible especially if you are the unsc against the empire or even the federation
Is it me or is FotR the best clonewars era Mod?
Considering there are only two of them that actually take place in the clone war, it's not that hard...
@@TheKenji2221 what about Republic at war, the Clone wars mod, (yoden Mod)
@@gracethestaffseargent95
Yoden Mod is trash.
RaW is the OG.
Didn't know about Clone Wars. I don't know if it's that popular compared to the other two. Which is why I didn't count it
@@TheKenji2221 it isn't as popular, and yoden covers way to much stuff, wich unbalances it i mean Deathstar Spam, maybe thats a actual Imperial tactic
can't you turn on allied incomes by hitting P in offline skirmish though? I thought you could. give it a check
Lol just fortify your important planets, for example as the empire fortify core worlds and build up from there, works every time for me
a feature easily remedied by playing galactic conquest only :)
Ai in galactic conquest on the hardest difficulty I'd ezzz
Empire at war is still great
I haven't played this game in years.
They did some patch or update or something. I used to dominate the ai on normal. And i struggled but played fine on hard.
Now, even easy difficulty is absolute shit.
This is the mod
Yeah i NEVER played against A.I on hard i playe don Medium without much issue..sometimes..but like one game i had 20 Victory class ISDs and they had 70 Corrillian corvettes..I won but i lost everything like they did and within a week they were maxed again lol
nice video
I don't know if the AI cheating is a big deal, since it's not all that great. For example i can't remember a single time where i was surprised by the hard AI pulling genuis moves, it's only strategy is too swarm soo i don't really think the money cheat is that important since the AI need it to use it's only tactic.
Hello there
Daniel Rose GENERAL KENOBI
What a surprise!
General Rose
General Kenobi. You are a bold one
@@KevinRodriguez-zr1ut No you're dead
they are tech level 2 because whilst one AI is upgrading the tech level or tech the other is building ships...this has been in the game from the very beginning. if you played a multi player game you would realize what is going on...the skirmishes against the AI...are just like you are playing online...the issue you are complaining about is that a 2v1 is unfair due to all players on the team receiving the same amount of credit income and that it is not divided between how many players there are -.-
are you kidding me it is so easy in skirmish
The AI cheats yes, but it's ridiculously stupid. The AI ships will fire at the closest targets, even if it's a corvette the ship can't hit being repaired by say, a Pelta. Making it very easy to deal with. They also don't respond well to fighter/bomber attacks. In the game, and in Star Wars in general, fighters and bombers are the key to attacking. Clone Wars against the Subjugator, Y-wings and X-wings in the battle of Scariff, X-wings and Y-wings against both Death Stars, etc. By keeping interceptors built and near any bombers you drop so they can take on the fighters after your bombers, you'll notice you win more fights than you might expect.
Yeah, if you can keep star fighter superiority (best case scenario) or at the very least keep the AI star fighters culled down to a manageable number, I've noticed you do much better. The AI loves to create star fighter swarms and if you let it get a swarm going, it's hard to break the swarm up
I do not know how the humans get so intelligent with their tactical decision. They must be cheating, and it ruins their game experience, i was made to give a good experience, i must compensate.
The problem is the AI's are still dumb/basic, people doesn't realize it is not a matter of fairness, if you want to develop a powerful kind of AI you will need to invest a lot, only the AI algorithm design will consume way too much development time.
Ideally to get an organic result you will need some machine learning tests.
Now the AI normally resort on tricks, like increased economy, knowing the player movements and having hardcoded plans.
Petroglyph algorithms were not particularly good ones, but with their times you can't blame them, they at least left a base to be improved (it took still the modders quite some time), there are other games like SOASE that even have most of their code locked.
You also have worse games out there, for example Stellaris, a game that relies heavily over AI functionality and their implementation is just a mess, so much a mess they can't even fix it after trying the last year, or else the first Endless Space game also had one of the worst AI I can remember.
Then you have basic AI's that are still pretty good, Rise of Nations or Rise of Legends for example are still better than most RTS in that department, you could have good fun against it. A very old game like Alpha Centauri also had a more than okay AI.
Well looking at how Deep Mind is set up you need more than an algarathim but an actual server network.
Yay poptarts
I was literally eating poptarts while reading your comment.
the poptarts will take over the world
lol, me and my friend were battling 2v2 hard ai, we found out strats to combat the cheating, just get good spubby.
not sure if its a running joke on this channel but why is he pronouncing the q as a k in arquitens? its kinda annoying
First like on the video
Press X to Doubt
Na i dont like that mod hahah cause its unbalanced af... sorry for the dev but its not fair that my ships dosnt do any damage 😀 and the republic shreds everything
nice video
I do not know how the humans get so intelligent with their tactical decision. They must be cheating, and it ruins their game experience, i was made to give a good experience, i must compensate.
nice video