Far Future Rocket Engine Technologies - Fission, Fusion & Antimatter
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2021
- In my NSWR video I used Kerbal Space Program to visualize the operation of this awesome engine in an imaginary future, this came from a free, fan created mod which covered a whole host of future engine concepts - Far Future Technologies by Nertea.
The mod is available for the latest version of Kerbal Space Program, and I suggest looking at the other mods produced by the same creator covering a number of other space technologies not in the base game.
forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/...
These designs and many more are covered in much more detail by Winchel Chung's Atomic Rockets website which is an invaluable resource if you're interested in realistic science fiction futures
www.projectrho.com/public_html... - Věda a technologie
“It’s like trying to sculpt a piece of jelly into a useful shape, using only rubber bands” - best description I've heard of magnetic confinement fusion.
Yes
And not just *any* rubber bands.
…Only the purple rubber bands they use to bundle broccoli together in the produce aisle 🥦
as someone with adhd, these are my kind of quotes.
@@staleshortcake9442 tf does this have to do with adhd?
@@roboticfuzzball179 Maybe it's just the typical "I'm neurodivergent, I'm so quirky" comment. I have Aspergers and it's honestly just annoying how people treat mental disorders like a banner to wave around to draw attention, or even base their whole personalities around it and always feel the need to bring up the fact that they are neurodivergent in everything single conversation no matter the topic.
I love how, no matter how sophisticated they get, rockets can still always be boiled down to "throw stuff out the back of the spacecraft really fast".
Yeah. That’s physics. Unless you know how to warp space time we gonna throw the kitchen sink out the back of a rocket
That's literally the definition of a rocket. A "rocket that does not throw stuff out the back" is an oxymoron.
Ah, I forgot that the internet does not have a sense of humor. I also understand the physics, guys. I'm just saying physics is funny sometimes.
@@yastreb. a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).
The only way to get around this is to build a craft that uses magnetic energy as propulsion a craft than can tap into unseen waves of magnetic energy would work on earth not sure about space
Love how accurate to real life Kerbal is. It even has the development delays down to a T!
However the SpaceX DLC will come almost instantly... and it will crash a lot.
@@shiranaihito9720 imagine the contracts. "Rapid scheduled disassembly"
*hide the pain Harold face*
@@lolsleepyboi8388 ok
@@shiranaihito9720 just stick to no-landing and you be ok
"multi kilometer beam"
me, an intellectual:
*"Today on mythbusters were testing if we can cut the VAB in half with a antimatter confinement engine"*
A reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive.
Greatest show ever
@@cooperjmills
Protogen.
Hey that way you don’t need a launch pad, you just.. unpeel the rocket like a banana right where it was built.
Really, any sufficiently powerful engine doubles as a very powerful plasma cutter.
Finally someone explains that rocket nozzle with the holes in it! I've been seeing it in all those KSP2 trailers and wondering how the rocket exhaust doesn't expand beyond the holes in the mesh and now I know... its plasma being magnetically contained.
No it’s a metallic hydrogen motor but yes it is being magnetically contained
@@JohnnyWednesday Suddenly I'm having a craving for baked beans. . .
Its not a nozzle its the engine bell btw.
Go to progectrho they have stockpile of information like this and nerd humor.
@@cyborghobo9717 I tried to search that up and found nothing. Do you have a link by chance?
I'm studying electrical engenering at the moment and actually wrote an exam in Electromagnetic Field Theory a few hours ago. Planning on taking a masters in plasma physics and then hopefully I will be accepted for a phd which will lead me to a career in fusion science! I have been dreaming about becoming a fusion scientist since 10th grade, so wish me luck!
Maybe you can make one of these drives. Just make the ship look like some thing out of star wars for us lol
Not sure how the engineering undergrad to physics grad school path is supposed to work. Qualifying and comp exams for physics graduate programs would be well beyond the scope of what is covered in electrical engineering. You would basically be self studying an entire 4 year degree.
*GOOD LUCK!!!!*
@@Allan_aka_RocKITEman Thanks! :)
@@lachyt5247 Here in Sweden (where I live) we don't have the under/postgrad education scheme (what I know). I study a 5-year engenering program called "Electrical Engenering" that is based on 3 years of ground level courses (kandidat) followed by 2 years of advanced and specialised courses of your choice (master). A lot of the ground courses are like calculus, multivariable calculus, vector calculus, linear algebra, but also introductions to datasystems, analogical digital design, electrical circuit analysis and electromagnetic field theory. It sets the foundation to many different masters you can choose from, and before you choose a master you will also study some other courses that makes your program more personalised! I've spoken to some scientist in plasma physics and they have said that my plan seems pretty good when it comes to getting into the business of fusion research :)
13:03 It's named after the creator Robert Frisbee. In his original interstellar design the thing had a deltaV of like one speed of light (accelerate to 0.25c, slow down at destination, x2 for return trip), and was a four stage 1000km long monster to fit all the radiators needed.
Atomic rockets enjoyer, I assume
@@oberonpanopticon yupp
Link please?
@@sErgEantaEgis12 I’m not sure, but if you just search up atomic rockets, it should be easy to find.
Remember the Kzinti Lesson: "A reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive."
- Larry Niven
Another formulation is: "Any propulsion system for interesting stories is a WMD".
"There is no such a thing as an unarmed spacecraft."
@@n1k32h wtf?
Scott, didn't anyone tell you not to point a Dirac Antimatter Initiated Microfusion Engine at the camera? You'll put an eye out!
Safety glasses should be fine
James ..oh no your sure to want the supa-safe type..
Do not look directly at Dirac Antimatter-Initiated Microfusion Engine with remaining eye.
Just make sure you're wearing your "Safety Tie" and everything will be fine!
As long as you are not wearing a red shirt you will be fine..
"They don't fly the building around" - well that's what I call a lack of ambition
I mean, they dont fly the building around, yet ;)
One word: Highfleet
I am reminded of a Monty Python film with moving buildings, insurance companies and piracy.
KSP 2 handles colonies as things made up of parts. If KSP 2 in its base form doesn't let you fly a surface-built VAB round, maybe a modder could patch the colony parts to have vessel physics.
@@innacrisis6991yep
4:28 Look up the "Mirror Fusion Test Facility". The largest magnetic mirror test facility, ever. Literally *one day* after its completion, the entire thing already built and unused, *got cancelled* in a budget cut. That's so American.
So.... Reagan.
How could someone make such an extreme oversight? Like its already done the money has been spent why not let it operate for a year?
@@scottmanley I know it is super awfully late and also anoyingly pedantic to point out but Im afraid Curium-247 has a half life of 1.56(5)E+7 years which is not about one and a half million years :D Good video as alway anyway !
@@shastro6939 How else will the military afford their 50$ cases of diet coke?
Thanks Obama.
Hey scott, another great video. Can we have a video on spacecraft thermal control systems (radiators, heating and insulation) ._.
Yes.... someday
@@scottmanley antimatter spacecraft thermal control system video coming 2201
@@scottmanley What about the output particles? Are future generations going to curse us ?
Find abou liquid metal droplet radiators they are very lightweight and effitient.
As a player of Children of a Dead Earth, I have a new appreciation of spacecraft heat management.
*shows the antimatter drives*
Me: Now we're cooking with gasoline.
gasoline? lamesauce
@@Broockle no u
@@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife no u
@@Broockle WHERE IS THE LAMB SAUCE!?!?!?!?
Anti-gasoline?
The KSP mod community are heroes. And the KSP dev team are heroes for embracing them.
Scott, thank you for everything you do.
Nertea is a treasure! Near Future * is always my first stop whenever I'm building a mod pack for a new playthrough!
@LurchTheBastard Angel-125 also has some amazing mods. Their Blueshift is an especially awesome replacement for Roverdude's warp drive (though I'm really missing the 1.25m drives)
Clearly the KSP2 devs agree with you because they’ve literally hired him, which is an extremely good sign
@@PwnedDuck I was extremely happy to hear about that, the Near Future mods plus the Station Parts Expansion are amazing in every aspect.
I vaguely recall hearing that CERN stated that they can make as much antimatter as you like --- one atom at a time, and you have to bring your own bottle.
I don't think they can make atoms yet. One particle at a time.
@@Noughmad atoms are particles
@@Noughmad The ASACUSA experiment at CERN would like a word. First successful anti-hydrogen beam produced in 2014.
@@cooperjmills atoms are collections of different particles
At present, it's a by-product of other things they're trying to do. Nobody produces it, just for itself.
(ASACUSA experiment at CERN excepted apparently. The Penn St articles were before that.)
The Penn St Physics articles about anti-proton initiated micro-fission/fusion pulse ships say that a fairly small investment could produce the tiny amounts that would be needed for a robust and *_fast_* interplanetary ship, and it's fairly easy to say that readily produced storage would be good for ~6 months.
If your mission doesn't return to Earth orbit in that time, then a separate return stage or fuel storage could be sent out to anything that you're trying to get back.
"Trying to sculpt a piece of jelly into a useful shape using rubber bands." Now I'm cleaning coffee off my screen. Thanks for that. :)
Your clever and subtle suggestion of potentially spitting out your coffee from laughter could've made me done the same if I was drinking coffee :)
Are You Cleaning It With Rubber Bands?
monke
Not only that, but it also explains the design problem of fusion reactors properly
@@Phelan666
Donke
Wow, Nertea's (always excellent) models have come such a long way since the last time I used Far Future! Those laser ignition effects are stunning.
"Trying to shape a piece of jello into a usable object using a rubber band" - best quote of 2021 Right here folks!
Thank you for your videos Scott, I‘m currently writing my final scientific essay for high school (it should be like 30 pages) about rocket engine variations and your videos are helping a lot. The hardest part is not the research but translating everything to german. If you ever wondered what a „Vollstromvorverbrennungstriebwerk“ is, in english ist has the fancy name Full-Flow-Staged-Combustion-Cycle
13:39 - With ion drives, the problem is getting energy into the spacecraft. With antimatter drives, the problem is getting energy _out_ of the spacecraft.
More like "problem is most of the energy of annihilation is in hard gamma rays and there's not really a good way to convert that into usable energy"
@@44R0Ndin That sounds like something Issac Arthur would say...
Could we make some weird combination of both?
You are right about the need for large radiators in nuclear engines. For Pulsed Fission Fusion for example you need to keep the nozzle's electromagnets cool enough for the superconducting which is necessary to obtain large enough EM fields to push the resulting plasma away.
3:30 So basically, magnetic confinement fusion is like cat herding.
Lots of lasers
If you've ever seen how cats react to lasers, herding them is not that hard as long as you have one laser per cat.
@@brainmind4070and also multiple sets of limbs for all the laser pointers.
What? You’re telling me you don’t have that yet? Lame.
Getting into futurism now, huh? Issac Arthur would be proud
Was looking for someone to mention him here; great taste in CZcamsrs!!!
I live a mile from that ignition facility he mentioned. Lol. I was like, “Hey, that’s where I live!” Lol.
I machined some parts for the NIF a long time ago. Capacitor racks and beam guides if I remember correctly.
Boom
Yep!
There is another facility with the same mission here in France, the Laser Mégajoule.
Crazy to think that, all these years later, this video is still the best source of information about how to use the frisbee engine in KSP
I am very happy with what you said at the end of the video.
I love your videos on advanced propulsion technologies and would love to see more videos where you go into detail like in the nuclear salt water one!
I look forward to it!
Yeah, definitely do more of these Scott. Great info.
Nertea's mods are AWESOME, always a must have when I upgrade KSP.
Thanks so much for this scott, cant get enough of your content!
Nertea is amazing. They have a whole suite of mods that completely transform the game. The stock-a-like station parts are my favorite. Everything just looks beautiful when you use those parts
2:33 If you have the technology to make that work I can't imagine you won't have the capability to make it power itself. Sure some solar panels to start it and to power the rest of the ship would be nice tho
Or ditch solar panels altogether, as the further you get from the sun, the less power they generate. If you're running a fusion reactor, then you're basically carrying a mini-sun with you. One proposal is to use either an alphavoltaic or a betavoltaic array lining the reactor chamber, then use fuels like Hydrogen+Boron11, which emit these particles as a byproduct of the fusion reaction. These would produce electricity directly in nearly precisely the same way solar panels (photovoltaics) do. You would still need a battery to start up, and likely a set of supercapacitors to provide the large burst of energy, but you would want those anyway to smooth our electrical system fluctuations.
You'd need some way to turn heat into electric energy. Classically this means either steam turbines or thermoelectric generators, both of which aren't easy to do in space.
@@tharqal2764 I disagree: turbopumps on rockets are already the futuristic version of steam turbines, when you have a fusion reactor on board that already has to be cooled attaching a turbine in the loop is primitive in comparison
@@theophrastusbombastus8019 The problem is that you need to release a relatively large fraction of the reaction energy to start the next reaction. A turbine will only generate a smaller, continuous power, so you would have to find a way to efficiently store energy that can be released quickly. It's not likely to be as easy as "turbine and supercapacitors, done".
@@MushookieMan If the pulses are close enough together the total inertia of the system (thermal+momentum) can propably smooth out any peak, if not it can be by design increased. Unless the pulses are every few minutes I think there are no big problems there.
5:24 its shown in The Expanse (TV Show) season 4, that this is essentially the kind of engine that makes up the Epstein Drive, albeit with a different construction.
There's a line from the books where Amos is discussing modifications to the Epstein drive in a torpedo, and Holden wryly remarks that 400 years ago, propulsion engineers would sell their firstborn child to get the sort of knowledge that Amos is just chucking around in casual conversation
Thank you Scott. Nice visual representations.
jeezus wept scott! just looked at your channel description. FOURTEEN YEARS! not bad for a hobby. top man.
Another mod to add to my list!
I'm counting the times Scott tried to fry us with his rocket exhaust
As someone delving deep into the KSP Interstellar mod for the first time, this series has been fun. Will most definitely try these mods out for my next career save!
Keep them coming wounderfull videos. You have a way to inspire people as you teach them I cannot wait to see what you come up with next.
I like future technology, it gives me hope. Could you also do some stuff on near-future engines?
Methane and LOx. That's how it will be for the foreseeable future.
There is only one thing to hope first - getting rid of capitalism. After that it's much easier to hope for whatever is good for humanity.
@@AntonBrazhnyk I know you're trolling but I'll bite. Capitalism has brought us almost all new space travell techniques you see today.
@@gert-janbonnema You ate to much of cap-propaganda. It's science which brings technology, not capitalism. It's fear of socialism and USSR fueled development in this area not the capitalism itself. There is still no profit in space exploration. And today it's China which still fuels it and create artificial profits for SpaceX and the like.
@@LaughingOrange Ion drives are a thing and have been for awhile, greatly outperforming chemical rockets in vacuum. Also there are experiments planned to test solar sail craft, and there are technically feasible (but unlikely to be built at this point) beamed power options like Breakthrough Starshot as well. And if we do establish a permanent presence on the moon, a big benefit will be the ability to test things like the nuclear saltwater rocket from the other video safely away from the Earth.
Methalox really only comes out ahead for heavy lift into orbit, and none of the drives mentioned in the video are capable of being fired in atmosphere anyways.
“Because a critical mass for fission depends on the geometry of the mass you have” you’re giving me PTSD from Fundamentals last semester
I love watching your videos in the morning making breakfast, thanks for the years of great content and knowledge!
I've always loved the Near Future Propulsion mod, so it's great to learn about another awesome mod like this.
Hey Scott!! You missed the big one!! Ryan Weed's Positron Dynamics antimatter engine! This California company has prototypes already sitting in NASA's hands!!
There's also a new fusion type being researched "lattice confinement" fusion
This video is excellent and incredibly well researched. Outstanding job Stan! Most of these concepts came out when I was a PhD student or just starting out in my career, so I remember a lot of conference presentations. The 'Frisbee rocket' BTW is named after Dr. Bob Frisbee from JPL who led on the development of the concept. He concluded that while antimatter has great storage density, most of the energy goes into gamma rays which are really hard to attenuate and turn into useful propulsion. Creation, storage, and utilization of antimatter are all really hard problems.
Nertea has great mods, love their work.
2:42 Scott Manley actively trying to burn my eyes by zooming on an extremely luminous engines
You should do another Interstellar Quest type of series, using Nertea's mods!
I'd totally watch that. :)
Great videos Scott. Always fun to watch and fun to learn about.
Seeing the topic I wasn't really hooked. But it was a scott Manley video so I obviously watched it anyway. And as with every Scott Manley video, in the end it was actually very nice and entertaining. I almost never write comments but I just love how you get chilled entertainment without feeling like you wasted your time watching useless internet videos afterwards because they actually have content on a meaningful level. Even for someone that studies aerospace engineering. Please keep this up for a long time
KSP still taking me to school.
This makes me optimistic that my grandchildren will not be stuck in this Solar system.
You may need to add a few "great-" prefixes, but yeah I think it's less about 'if' but 'where to' and 'when'.
@@unsafevelocities5687
Stanton. Wednesday.
@@unsafevelocities5687 i would just say children imo, technology advances far faster than expected and some of this technologies are already well understood and developed
@@carso1500 I'd be surprised if we leave this solar system in the next 500 years. Interstellar travel by humans in 1,000 years sounds more realistic, but that's with me being optimistic that we actually send living, breathing humans and not an artificial lifeform.
Humans watched birds fly for around 200,000 years before being able to replicate it. Knowing something is possible and doing it are very different things.
Love this topic. Honestly I enjoy all your videos.
Nice job scott. i was playing this mod way early and wished that you would explain some of the engine's logics and science behind them.
looks like it came earlier than expected
Video has been up for 6 minutes (7 now after typing?), 1,630 views... Scott Manley you are amazing.
That's what having 1.19 million subscribers does I guess
Having a horrible day at work, just saw that you posted a new video. Made me smile. Now I'll watch as my boss is not around hehe
Pretty awesome Scott, gives hope for the future! :)
I love project RHO! More content from them, with your voice? YES PLEASE!
*_*reading Atomic Rockets website intensifies*_*
Yes. *searches up torch drives*
Great video Scott. Greetings from your cousin Karen in Scotland 🎉🎶🎶
Also I have a channel. New subscribers welcome Scott😁
Nertea always making amazing leaps and bounds with every release
Love the little details in the animations
"I'm gonna have to spend a lot more time reading the Atomic Rockets website..." As though you weren't looking forward to it, don't try to trick us!
The new season of the Expanse has me way back into space again.
Wait what? There is a new season?
@@among-us-99999
Yup, 7 episodes of season 5 are out. I barely saw any advertising for it so I understand why you’re surprised
@@nicholasn.2883 Holy shit, I was worried the show got canned or delayed because of COVID. They really need to spend a bit more on marketing for the sake of the show.
@@nicholasn.2883 Not Sci fi enough. AKA no rubber masks.
The robot was cool though, looks very human built.
Needs more focus on Aliens for my taste, even if they are too alien for us to understand. The way they are treated like a force of nature also seems pretty close to what I would expect.
I can remember reading that a spider sees humans as a moving piece of landscape, similar thing.
@@lesserspottedmugwump.363 i have diferent opinion, i like the more "realistc" stuff, its just humans with normal tec in space, not counting their engines and radiation meds
Thank you Scott! We need more people like you.
Great presentation. Thanks Scott.
That rotating fission rocket is amazing. Need some hard sci-fi with this stuff. :)
PS, THANK YOU. I'd been wondering if I was right to add "antimatter catalysed fusion/fusion" to my sci-fi ideas and ships. Turns out it is possible (I was using it to "shrink" craft sizes when fusion drives alone would be too big).
These things only run on the purest, high-grade assumptions.
Nertea is a pretty awesome mod developer in general, their mods are all very high quality and very interesting and cool
I first learned to play Kerbal Space Program nearly a decade ago watching your early videos on it. It is about time we saw more :-)
Me too!
"I used an antimatter confinemant engine to cut the VAB in half!!! Now thats a lot of damage!!"
Project Farm is a great channel
I Love the hat-tip to Heinlein for "Blowups Happen" and "The man Who Sold The Moon"
Yes! Please more on near or far future technology concepts.
absolutely love advanced propulsion videos!!! would love to see more
Let's face facts you had us all clicking at the word Antimatter!
Someone give NASA a bigger budget
Nasa doesnt even launch big missions anymore
@@pekka-zg1wx why do you think that is lmao
Great video! Would be great if this could be part of a series in which you deep dive into each and every engine concept.
Loved the video! More future propulsion videos would be cool!
A security failure of any electronic component related to electromagnets in these Engines would be catastrophic
Edit: changes to satisfy gramnazis
It would mostly stop, damage the engine and maybe send off a bunch of radiation, but likely not a mission killer if you can fix the nozzle
@@antaresmc4407 Yes, except the pure antimatter one. Amat, (at least when we rule out the theoretical Magnetic matter) is inherently unstable in larger quantities and just a little error in the Amat tanks' magnetic field would lead to a pretty epic, but still very undesirable explosion.
@@petrpodskalsky1785 in the engines it would be as I said but with more radiation. In the plumbing it will be bad. In the tanks *you wouldnt even notice* ~if you know what I mean~🤣
So, it would be triple (or more) redundant, right?
@@AntonBrazhnyk ...RIGHT?
Here just after net energy fusion announcement!
bang bang
I was hoping for years for Nertea to release such an expansion/mod - how delightfully wierd to learn about it from Scott Manley!
Very interesting and worthwhile video.
hello sir. KSP 2 is out today!
Still have to wait for a playable game though
@@pappi8338 hahha good point.
For the life of me I can't stop hearing crewed as crude. 😐
Awesome! Do a series explaining the rockets and thrusters and equipment in the High Frontier tabletop game, as well!
Enjoy your content about the future and the past!
Lets hope they implement that in game, without the needs of mods.
That’s KSP 2
This mod does the job better than Squad would tbh
@@hugojoly1831 Squad aren't the only ones doing KSP 2
@@scottmanley True, but the only downside is, that KSP 2 is postponed; to around mid/end 2022.
@@jerryham5659 They aren’t involved at all with ksp2 as far as I know. I was talking about ksp 1. Can’t play the game without Nertea’s mods anymore.
ksp2 devs: "write that down!"
Awsome video Scott!
This is so close to being reality..we may be going to the stars sooner than we think.
We just need to shield or compensate for time dialation so when we come back to the earth all of our present time friends and relatives won't be long since dead..
All amazing designs! Great 👍 Video!!! I can’t believe how long some of the engines are.
Magnetic confinement is the cargo-cult of fusion tech.
Woo I asked for a Kerbal video in yesterday’s stream and I got one!
:D I saw he was working on this a couple of months ago. Downloading now.
Somebody really went to town there! Awesome effort!
I'm glad you touched on heat transfer energy generation. So many people that talk about ideas like this to becoming a type one civ or just building ring habitats and Dyson spheres seam to either ignore or "well need radiators of (x) to keep everything cool" and no we should be looking at capturing the hear for its energy.
11:54 - That, plus a large fraction of the energy released by matter/antimatter annihilation coming out in the form of neutrinos, which can be difficult to direct in a particular direction.
God bless winchell and his magnificent website.
Again, very cool Scott. We have to dream our future, and make it a reality.