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Guitar Speaker Coil Rub- Watch out!
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- čas přidán 11. 01. 2018
- Today's video is about one thing to look out for when buying speakers, especially ones that are older or vintage, and that's Coil Rub.
3:12 - No Coil Rub
3:19 - Coil Rub
3:37 - Single Notes No Coil Rub
3:43 - Single Notes w/ Coil Rub
3:49 - Chords No Coil Rub
3:56 - Chords w/ Coil Rub
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It's not always the coil that is rubbing. Sometimes there is debris that gets in there that causes the rub. You simply need to remove the debris and there are various ways of doing that. Too many speakers are misdiagnosed as no good due to perceived coil rub. I collect vintage Celestions and have picked up many great speakers that were thought to be bad due to this but they weren't.
That’s really interesting! How would you clean that out then?
@@adamsteelproducer you have to remove the dust cap then you turn the speaker upside down. Send some low frequency pulses through the speaker. The movement of the cone will eventually work the debris out. You can also use suction but that has to be done carefully.
i thought it was G for guitar too ! i have read that if you have rubbing speakers putting paint on the back of one side to increase weight and therefore moving the cone to one side can work. i bought an early 60s celestion sold as needing attention but ive never gotten around to fixing it .
Have you ever fixed a speaker where the cone doesn't move at all? I just bought a G12K-85 that was in good working condition, and he threw in another one for free, which is the one where the cone is just completely stiff. I'm hoping I might be able to repair it without having to do a full repair. Have you ever done repairs on stiff or rubbing speakers, and been able to keep the original cone/spyder/voice coil? or at least the cone and the spyder?
I have two Celestion’s 1979 that have a buzz behind the note when I play even at low volume. Not the amp throughly checked out. I tried running a generator but couldn’t find anything. It’s more of a higher mid freq that rings when playing especially above the 12th fret E & B strings, I hear better clean but overdrive it’s heard too. Drove me nuts trying to figure out. I’m also an amp tech DIY a JCM800 4210 combo or modded it. It doesn’t rub just the cry. Speakers are 125w rated T-3135 12 inch with 3 in voice coil and bigger magnet, 98 db sens. Anyway to dampen them some?
Thank you for this video. Actually, I did have a Marshall cab with the exact same speakers, also from 77. But I wouldn't say these are Greenbacks. Obviously these are blackbacks, but I agree that there are sort of greenbackish speakers with black cabs that belong to the Greenback family, but these don't in my opinion. What makes a Greenback sound like the sought-after Sound we all expect from a Greenback is the Puslonic cone. And this speaker here does not have a Pulsonic cone, it is a Kurt Muller cone. It's not that I wan't to start an argument o ranything, I just want to make sure that people expect a Greenback-Sounf from these speakers. To my ears these do actually sound more like a Vintage 30 type of Speaker: Hard, direct, tight lows, glassy top end. The mids are not creamy like a Greenback. I prefer new chinese Greenbacks over these Vintage speakers. Of course, this has to do with personal taste, but soundwise these speakers belong into a different family...
was hoping you'd go through an actual fix....
I'd suspect the idea is the same with an antique speaker from an old radio correct? i've got a 1946 radio that I suspect is having this issue but i'm unsure on how to fix it. I thought it was at first because it was blown, but after patching those rips the noise was still there.
Very cool! Thanks
very informative! Just subscribed
Some times you can adjust magnet and get lucky when they get shipped they throw the box hard and could shift the magnet.
Sure- much less likely on older speakers though, can’t hurt to try!
I have a vintage speaker that buzzes when I hit a specific note only. Could this be coil rub or would it happen on all notes if that was the case? Cheers
Hard to say. Have you tried pushing the speaker and listening for a grinding sound?
3:20 was that noise with the amp on?
No, that’s how loud the moving of the paper cone was!
How do I fix this
Replace the cone with a new voice coil usually
There are OEM recone kits for Greenbacks still and I see there are some kits available for Bluedogs as well but I think there may only be aftermarkets available for those. It is like changing your brake pads in your car. There are some things where well aged is definitely not a good thing. PA speakers are typically designed to run at the maximun power and therefore the driver usually are well worn. Just like your brakes speakers are a mechanical device and with wear over time.
If you recone the speaker i wouldnt really call it vintage anymore since alot of the sound character comes from the cone itself and one of the most important parts of the speaker has been replaced by a new part. Sure it will work if done right and hopefully sound good, but it probably wont sound as the other speakers in these speaker cabs, thats why i wouldnt call it vintage.
You missed the point. As soon as that speaker is built it starts to degrade. It is both an issue of time and wear. Consider what happens when you bend a piece of metal. Now bend it back the other way. Then back the other way again. How many times can you bend it like that til it breaks? With steel, not many. With other things much more but we have yet to develop something that will never wear out. Spiders and surrounds take the most wear in a speaker and are made of various materials. At one point we used to use a foam rubber. They just disintegrate over time. The thing is drivers are made of adhesives and they are subject to breaking down over time as well. You know how paper is made? They take a tree, grind it up, pour a bunch of adhesive into the grindings (pulp), roll it flat and dry it. Now we don't only make speakers out of paper (thank god we got over that crap) but most of the old ones are. The biggest problem is that is moisture deforms the paper cones and I don't mean wet. Just damp air can be enough to cause that. Over the period of years, it no longer sounds anything like when it was new which is not what collectors are looking for. It really isn't vintage anymore. If you go to a "pro" recone shop. They will do it with authentic kits which consist of authentic materials. It is the same as fixing a vintage car. A rusted out old heap isn't worth as much as a properly restored one.
I most certainly didnt miss the point and you can certainly do what you like with your own stuff, but dont complain to me when its not worth anything anymore.
The point of having 50 year old untouched greenbacks (which i do) is just that they are 50 year old and there is no way to get that besides buying one and using it for 50 years. I and im sure many with me wouldnt pay more for a 50 year old speaker that have been reconed than a new one off the shelf because there would little to no difference (if the same cone is used) , the "magic" is in the old cone. That said a brand new greenback of the shelf sounds great to, but not the same as a 60´s one does now.
Regarding the car analogy, good luck with convincing car guys that replacement parts are as good as original 1950´s parts.
The issue is that not every 50-year-old greenback is going to wear the same and with that won't sound the same either. A speaker used to run guitar tones through it is not going to have seen near the amount of excursion a low-frequency driver in a PA will have. More than listen to well-aged bass speakers. What happens when you turn them up? Believe me, we don't re-cone drivers in our PA's just for the sake of the fact that they are a little worn. Particularly with bass drivers, they start to excurd unevenly which gives them a tone of sounding blown up. With mid band drivers which are often made of paper (like guitar speakers) the driver's frequency response curve shifts more and more over time. Being as good drivers are very flat in their operating range do you suppose for one second that they are now flatter after 50 years? If that happened you have a total anomaly in your hands my friend. You want to put that in an environmentally controlled space like where they would keep cigars and never use it because it belongs in Ripley's museum. For the rest of us in the real world when the drivers in our 50 year old guitar amps start to sound really annoying as most of the time they will the right solution is to fix them with OEM parts as the amp will have far more value in good working order than a useless 50 year old boat anchor. Trust me, Pete Townsend and other collectors like him do not buy non-functional specimens for top dollars. If they buy a "busted" one the money the seller is loosing is far more than the cost of a proper fix. Oh, and yes it works the same way in cars. If you replace your broken rack and pinion with a worn one from another old car an appraiser has to take into account the state of function of all of the parts on the car no matter how original they are. A new rack and pinion made at a proper machine shop from the original design is going to carry that car's value. Call around if you don't believe me. That is how it works in the collector's world. A worn out part is the same as broken and carries the same value.
Im not talking about worn out parts at all, im talking about the specs of old parts VS new ones which are seldom or never the same (sometimes not even possible) and also fantastic sounding speakers that are 50 years old which mine is. Of course you should replace broken parts, but you are going on as if my 50 year old speakers are i some way broken which is just crazy talk .The reconed speaker is never going to be worth nearly the same as one with an original cone which sounds and works fine, at least when we talk Greenbacks and similar popular speakers. I wouldnt even pay the same price as for a new one myself, in that case id rather buy a brand new speaker.
PA speakers is a whole different story than guitarspeakers since the whole point of guitarspeakers is that they should have a certain frequency response rather than a flat response. PA speakers tend to be heavily abused due to transients from drums etc as well as often being driven hard by both to powerful amps and weak distorted PA amps which may be even worse and both the coil and cone itself can be damaged.
I like old things, but im not really a vintage guy and not a collector either, but i do like my old 4x12 and also that its now worth more than 5 times what i paid for it. That said i would probably be just fine with brand new Greenbacks as well.