Find the MAGIC - and bring it forward
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- I was emailing with an Industrial Design engineer from Apple who told me:
"One thing I've learned that can really make a product great is to find the magic and bring it forward."
I really love that concept and i think it´s essential for the Marble Machine that i allow the whimsical, artistic, non-engineering parts of the project blossom. Giant flywheel? YES!
Combine this with a more strict more deliberate design process should bring us closer to our goal this time.
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- - Hudba
I have suggested it before and I am going to say it again. The weights that drive the machine should be up high and behind you. That way it shows how much energy has been stored and is left in the machine as you play it. I would use a water filled tank as a counter weight. The big advantage is it could be as heavy as you need it but it would be very light for transportation. Hauling 500 LB of weights around will very quickly become a pain. Especial when you have to lift it up on to the stage because you do not have ramp access.
should just go for the vfd(s).
200 watts is 200 watts it doesn't matter if it's stored in water or weights or springs or whatever but he can't output it with human power regardless for the duration of the gig.
I endorse this. And you have the choice of hiding the water and making it look like a metal block, or playing it up with, say, rubber ducks.
OMG, you too?!?! I've been suggesting a "Tower of Power" in comments for months now.
And using a water-filled container as the weight is genius! Just fill the containers at any tap, then at the end of the concert, just empty them down any drain! You can actually make them pretty heavy, too.
@@paulkienitz
YES WE NEED THE RUBBER DUCKS!!!
I like the flywheel as a centerpiece better, since the motion is more interesting. But I'm digging this a bit; glowing water in 2 tall acryllic tanks on either side of the flywheel, with rubber ducks or Wilsons or something floating on top. Could look really cool, and aesthetically there's a lot there for Martin to play with as well.
Not sure how safe this all is...
giant flywheel in your back, narrow path infront with a bunch of tripping hazards...
Yes I'm a German, if you couldnt tell xD
I am Polish but most importantly I work as EU-OSHA inspector and I can assure you this is not safe. Add all of the hardware, cables, different stages and he will be able to play only at his own festival. No one will take the responsibility for putting up a few tons machine just for this solo concert. Wintergatan is just not this big.
you should see his latest renditions, hes still building it!
He needs a frame, like a steel cube with all the mechanics safely fixed to it.
@@MapedMod Yeah, with that amount of kinetic energy and moving parts contained in that machine, there's no chance any of this will ever go on a live stage in the way Martin is imagining it. I'm already seeing the plexiglass encasings and bright yellow danger marking all over that thing.
I also think it will actually lose is aesthetic appeal as well because it will look like a solid disc while spinning. Better to have the fly wheel safely encased lower and just add extra giant slow moving gears for fun. That planetary gear on the old machine was fun to look at!
Imagine the giant flywheel was actually a giant Wilson
I agree. That would be so cool and appropriate.
You could use a normal steel, well balanced wheel and put a light, realistically painted foam Wilson on top. It doesn't play into the skeleton clock esthetic though.
@@piokulit also brings electronics, something that Martin already said it's a no no
@@joaomarcelopinheiromagalha3355-- What part of a foam decoration adds electronics?
@@joaomarcelopinheiromagalha3355 they said "light" as in lightweight, not light-up. (It needs to not significantly change the balance of the flywheel.) Alternatively, it could be heavy, but would need some parts to be thicker to carry counterweight for the big gap of Wilson's mouth.
"Fooling around" is an important part of any design sequence
"Remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down"
-Mythbusters
@@TarEcthelion That's not how science works at all.
Yes maybe 5 years ago. Hes just fooling around endlessly
@@MiikaKontio Yep, he's just grifting at this point.
With that much energy in flywheels, you'll probably want to make sure you protect yourself from the mechanisms, especially if people are going to be walking around near them such as the marble lifts and the flywheels themselves.
it needs to be covered with plexi glass. Otherwise that's a final-destination moment waiting to happen. That thing can decapitate you.
@@thorwaldjohanson2526 Yeah, exactly what I was thinking when he was talking about stepping up onto the platform during the show. Guy fumbles the step and takes a head dive into a 100 pound spinning flywheel. Quick way to get some nasty injuries.
He knows this stuff. He will get it right if he wants to make it.
Torque limiters are a must. The Flywheels themselves can actually be moved back a meter and up a bit (read: outside falling body range) since they are acceptably sized now. Perspective and lighting can do the rest to uphold the illusion of standing inside the machine, even when there is a safety gap.
Yeah. Fortunately, by putting the flywheels and gears far in the back and opening the entrance to the Martin section to the front, the danger parts become easier to shield/avoid. The lift mechanism remains as a snag risk.
I love how he spent several build days making sure a flywheel is safe to be around… then tossed that all away to plan for a flywheel that could cut a person in half lol.
It will be the exact same amount of energy. The larger flywheel won't need to spin as fast to power the machine.
Love how he continued to feature his guitar playing like his mom asked him to.
Martin, while you are thinking about stage layout, somthing to consider; to design a machine which completly removes the possibility of floor marbles is extremely difficult (and you will spend months of hell trying to do it) so rather than having to employ several stage hands to slowly chase after floor marbels during the concert consider the idea of a wetroom shower, the floor is gradually sloped towards a 'drain' point so that all the water flows into the drain and you can have an open shower without watering your house. If you put the stage design with a slight bowl underneath the machine those (hopefully rare) marbles can slowly roll to a single point and be collected without worrying about the stage becoming a ball pit!
Yes, the whole machine should be in a sloped pool.
With a big 1.5m diameter full of kinetic energy steel meat grinder rotating like crazy just feets behind Martin (and his fingers, hands and arms...) we gonna have to adress obvious safety issues !
You mean to keep the fly wheel safe from Martin? ;-)
@@rc-fannl7364 of course, poor flywheel
Metal cages? Plexi boxes?
Yeah plexi panes, what I was gonna suggest ! @@Phriedah
.. wheal should be bigger :) if it is bigger you can far away in the back and put a fence and barriers around it to avoid accidents.
Instead of pointing the "two sides" inward towards the center, they should point outward instead. This will allow a space in the center where the band can be together in the "heart" of the machine.
I think this will make the stage feel much less cramped and allow options for the whole band to interact with the machine
Also there could be a wall of mechanisms behind the whole band
Add an oversized governor as well since they look cool. and bigger isn't worse.
I'm starting to get it. What I loved about the first two machines was their compact thing-ness: an intricate machine that hints at but does not fully reveal its complexity. But it seems Martin is now thinking of something different and equally compelling - what if the machine were deconstructed, blown up, and you could walk around inside it looking at all the parts? If the goal is live performance, that definitely makes for a more compelling spectacle on stage.
It feels like a half-measure of both concepts right now. If he's definitely going the spread-out route, as many mechanical components should be clearly visible as possible. Lots of long shafts and belts. One big gear isn't enough wow factor.
Yeah im not a fan of this new design: it misses mystery, and looks more like a bunch of instruments spread out over a stage. The machine doesnt look cohesive. In the first 2 designs the machine feels like 1 thing and I really liked that.
@@Mietchannel To me this is becoming more that the Machine is just one more instrument in a band, not a machine that makes music on it's own with a single operator. Why have the machine play bass or drums if you're going to have a bassist and drummer? In my opinion it really diminishes the draw of the Machine.
Plexiglass catwalk! That way you can walk on the river of marbles!
YES !
Yes, my first thought was to make it transparent. :)
Just thick glass. Plexiglass scratches very easy, so it will look like shit half way though the tour. Thick glass is heavy and expensive though....
What about transparent aluminium (aka aluminium oxynitride)?
@@luketurner314 Hmm, I'm not sure if that would work. The only application I've seen is transporting whales.
"No, sir I didn't see you playing with your dolls again."
5:08 *cardboard martin has a stroke*
Spaceballs :D
you should go to Eurovision with this
Is your opinion of wintergatan really THAT low?
Don't throw pearls before swine.
@@user-ex6xc5ox3k nonono, to win
Eurovision 2056?
@@user-ex6xc5ox3k More of the world needs to know about him.
Hannes is having hard time believing that Martin isn't just fooling around :P
We are all Hannes
I must say, this is much more interesting than everything being in one straight line. The angles definitely help.
A few months ago a small flywheel was in a metal cage for safety reasons and now it is huge and open and ready to crush bones and skulls. Way to go Martin, more cardboad.
It is safe it it remains a cardboard flywheel. Or even a safer one, an imaginary flywheel.
I remember that small flywheel being sped up while aimed at the audience in the Mechanical Music Museum and I was holding my head in disbelief.
A bigger one only has to weigh about the same as the small one, I don't think it'd be much more dangerous.
@@aryst0krat the same mass at a larger radius will have more kinetic energy at the same rotation speed.
@@brianorca yeah that's what I was trying to get at without thinking too hard about the math haha, basically bigger in one way means it can be smaller in others and still do the same job - i.e. store the same amount of energy
more martin playing with cardboard!
5:04 Best solo of all time
Not just playing, pontificating! He's written a 3000-page PDF all about how and why he pontificates.
Too bad Martin can't seem to play music.
Yeah, it's getting weird...
You can build the large flywheel just as a lightweight prop to communicate with the audience. This way it is safer to be around, and can even have additional safety mechanisms to disengage in case someone trips into it.
That's a bit lame though :(
@@DemsW Not as lame as watching someone die a gory death live on stage.
@@rantingrodent416 That doesn't sound lame though
@@DemsWlol lol
As a professional Industrial Designer, I’m so happy to see you adopting prototyping and ideation techniques that take some of the precision out of the earlier stages of development that a lot of engineering ways of thinking will cage you in.
We call it the Christmas tree of design process. Start at the log (the brief), exploration and refinement help narrow your focus (the zig zags of the tree getting smaller as you get closer to the top), and then the star on top is your final product!!
Martin, some special high intensity, small spotlights aimed strategically onto the marble machines and return tracks will act like a mirrorball, so to speak, and create a lot of moving sparkles flashing toward the audience.
Man, I love Hannes.
It's so fun watching him and Martin having fun with the planning process.
He's a great hype man too, and good at telling Martin what he needs to hear, as well.
It's good to see you coming back to the 'art' side of things, and having fun again. The technical aspects are important, but this has always been an art project. You kind of forgot that for a while, and it's good to see it coming back.
You should paint the programming wheel and the flywheels so that the rotation is more obvious to the crowd. That and cool patterns moving would be quite awesome.
You could also have lights shining through any gaps in the mechanism, casting moving patterns on the walls.
This is perfect content. Music - engineering - art - humor and genuine wholesome friendship, I love this so much
Having the whole band flanked by marble machine could be a great look, especially if you can hand off power & controlling the machine between members. It could really help dispel the 'Martin & his amazing machine and also a band I guess' vibe.
Be awesome if you could scoop up a handful of marbles live during the show and pour them back into the machine
Front row seats are just a splash zone of floor marbles :O
Throws them into the crowd,
Hilarity occurs
@@Tuck-Shop Performs a bit of slight of hand swapping the metal ones for bouncy or foam balls before throwing, thus reducing the chance of injury and damage. Could also pretend to grab from the machine but not really
Make big flywheel look like wilson!
That will require making some parts thicker than others, since Wilson is not a balanced silhouette. But it can be done.
@@brianorca everything for the magic thing
I think this whole process is really showing why there’s a design specialist working with an engineer for most product development, instead of one person trying to do all these roles.
Love the flywheel. Run the numbers on one twice as big.
Also, you were absolutely playing.. and it's one of the best things I've seen in months. Playing means you're having fun. If you're having fun, other people will also have fun. That's what this project is all about.
This process, your chemistry with Johannes, the adorable miniature, the rockin' guitar solo. This was a ton of fun to watch! So happy to be supporting you.
It's great seeing you enjoy the early design process. I feel like you're recapturing the joy of the first machine in these models.
Love how at 10:27 neither can keep a straight face at Martin's claim and they both just lose. it.
Don't forget to consider kg/cm³ loads for each of the venues on your world tour.
There's no need. There won't be a world tour. There won't even be a marble machine.
@@thomasbecker9676 How dare you. There will be a marble machine, right after his friend Elon populates Mars, which will be right after Martin flies around the Moon.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Oh, right, how could I be so mistaken? :P
@@thomasbecker9676 I think you don't trust Elon enough. There are some seminars if you are interested.
If you have a light on the front of the big fly wheel to project a big shadow on the wall behind you that would been really cool to see the shadow spinning. Please upvote so he sees.
I really love seeing just having fun and letting the creative juices flow, letting the machine do what the machine wants
At 11:07 , what a nice shot of the marble machine X. Planetary gears are so visually pleasing.
I love this energy so much! Sure there's safety concerns that will have to be addressed, and new engineering problems to solve but honestly, the magic is the most important thing and no amount of good engineering can produce something magical without the inspiration of an artist.
Given that the band will be senior citizens by the time this machine is actually tour-ready, Martin should be designing room for their chairs and walkers.
Put the 2 sides on a curved rail and a U-Joint for power delivery, then swing them out to 30 and in to 45 degrees while they are playing as you walk toward the stage.
I want a song called, "The Marbles on the floor". It has to be! 😅
“Let the marbles hit the floor, let the marbles hit the floor, let the marbles hit the……”
On the tour, there's just a video montage; every instance marbles exploded on the floor throughout these years 🤣
Creations like these are treasures for ever. Hope to see it in my life time
I'm loving your energy in these videos Martin! So good to see you exploring freely with these prototype models.
I love that you're acting by following a plan that points to great success. I hope everything goes fantastic in the future so we can all enjoy the collective work that y'all have done.
Have you tried swapping the stuff on the left to the right-hand side and the stuff on the right to the left-hand side? That way the 2 marble lifts point up towards the new super flywheel and form a sort of triangle shape. This should also open up the space in the front a bit.
Yes I imagined the same I think, the steps would be "tivoli stairs" shape?
This also has the benefit of putting the harpsichord on the left, and the drums on the right. Everything I know about musical marble machines tells me that's the right and proper way round...
In the first wintergatan marble machine videos he got almost Half a million of views and the comments were all like «wow!» «love this» «amazing looking machine», but now he gets not even close to that and they’re all like «you should this» «you should that» «this isnt safe».
Wintergatan is now a parody of itself.
Hahaha, it's true.
This episode was not even a parody, it was a metaparody.
Ottmar Mergenthaler didn't get the Linotype perfect in the first go 'round either. Invented in 1886 and still being used today in some printshops. It's a marvel of watch-making know how and imagination to this day and doesn't have a single computer chip or piece of plastic on it. And fun to operate, I might add!
Martin doesn't have a fraction of that skill or talent, though.
That is an interesting mock-up of the intended layout. Great concepts on display here, if you pull this off, it will be insanely cool.
If you want a large decorative wheel behind you make it it out of light material like plywood so it's less of a danger, there's no reason you can't have the actual flywheel in a safer more secure position and just have decorations powered off it.
used to have a marble machine "I believe" poster in my room but I start to believe less and less about seeing it live one day.. Please Martin, make it happen
I love that you figured out the need for a catwalk and how that impacts the marbles this early in the process. It warms my UX heart knowing you have a much more solid understanding and picture of what you'll eventually build. You will eventually have to do some compromises further down the road but this at least is one less obstacle for tomorrow and exactly what this type of prototyping is for. Keep it up!
I'm here for the steady descent into and through madness.
Thank you for bringing it back to the marbles, the art, the fun, and the machine. BTW, I love the huge flywheel, it reminds me of the large, slow-spinning fans for ventilation that were common in dark sci-fi.
I see the artist finally taking precedence over the engineer, FINALLY LET'S DREAM
This video reminded me of Spaceballs, the 1987 movie. A scene where Dark Helmet plays with dolls and gets cought by his second in command...
I was not convinced by the split marble machine (i loved the intricate, compact, first two machines) but you just convinced me with this simulation. The scene is beautiful ❤
A concert like that would absolutely be the most impressive to watch! Your cardboard approach is an amazing exercise, doing all these iterations in a 15min video exposing various design requirement that otherwise would take weeks to show with real prototyping or CADing
Not sure it would look best but try putting the whole band in the middle, it would give you more space to move around and i fell like it would look less cramped
Also help avoid the whole "Martin & his amazing machine plus also band I guess' vibe.
Yes! Lots of threads you have been pursuing feel to have come together. I love how the band was included.
Hi Martin! I've been thinking, what if you add an unexpected twist to your decor with fluorescent marbles? Picture this: they're concealed from view, only to be revealed under a black light. So, during a special song, we could switch off the regular lights, activate the black light, and voilà! A stunning, glowing surprise that will surely captivate everyone.
I LOVE HOW THIS LOOKS!. I was always here for the engineering, now i NEED to see it live
Yesss 🎉 I’m about to add “see Wintergatan LIVE” to my bucket list ❤❤❤
I'm so glad to see you and Hannes laughing and actually enjoying thd process.
I know the stuff you were doing here was legit part of the design process, but I like that you took some time to be goofy as well, that's the best kind of video SuperVinlin
Consider 1. What will you put on the big screen? How will the camera booms help the audience interact with the machine? 2. Should you put the band on a different stage? Lower? Out on a walkway? Above the machine? 3. In your original video, you had the idea of a black marble that you follow through the machine…. How to have the audience experience the machine? Could you have the machine rotate? I don’t think the cardboard gets to the bottom of some of these questions, you need a cyclic design process, prototype, build, evaluate, prototype. In my experience you can over-plan a project, projects fail most often because of tight monolithic integration. Loose coupling is really what you need my friend. You will never predict and plan all the problems with a marble machine on the road unless you GO ON THE ROAD! (Albeit with a smaller machine). Different stages will have different issues, so you need a system that’s flexible. I think you need a marble recycler that can hook up a lot of different attachments, that way you can go on tour with just the xylophone, work out the bugs, etc. performing brings such joy! Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!
Those flywheels in the back should be very safe. You probably need an emergency break, encapsulate(like having glass walls around it or something) the flywheel so that nobody gets hurt by accidentally getting close to the flywheel, etc...
Im so glad you are using cardboard and having fun with rapid iterations, versus building these massive machines that sometimes dont work out lol. Great job!
You look so happy! I have been hurting to see that.
Yo Hannes is looking fit! Nice work man 🎉
How very kind of you, thank you❤️❤️❤️ /Hannes
The marbles should definitely go the other way, so the step/runaway looks like "tivoli stairs" (I could see them in my mind but had to google a lot to find the name). So the steps widen and the marbles flow round it in smooth curves. Maybe can the instruments be "flipped" to change the catch position for those notes to the outside? I LOVE how much fun you're having and you're energy xx
This has been a really fun video, I was dubious coming into it because I miss the prototyping/fabrication videos, but you've made a beautiful model that looks like it's going to translate into real life in a really wonderful way. Find the magic, and bring it forward, godspeed!
I mean, doing serious work while having fun is the best thing tbh !
Love how you share your thought process. Tack
great to see you having fun creating something magical! 1,5m Flywheel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, I did not expect the dropoff in patrons from 10k to 500, that's insane. I get that many might have been turned off by the idea when Martin killed Marble Machine X, but a 95% drop off? That I did not expect. Thanks to all previous backers and an even bigger one to the people who stuck with it. It's thanks to you that I've been able to enjoy this journey since 2016.
Didn't he start a new Patreon from scratch after the MMX?
At some point he said he had enough money and felt guilty when starting over with the machine. He then cancelled the patreon if I remember correctly
@@isoscelestriangle could be, I’ve not followed the patreon at all 😁
Perhaps it's because people have finally clued into the grift.
Thomas you're not being constructive with these comments.
I like this step away from last year's embracement of Elon Musk's philosophy of "Your design requirements are dumb, so make them less dumb," I love that you are embracing that this feat of engineering is also about creative expression and while a design requirement might be dumb, the purpose of the machine is to be aesthetically pleasing, rather than just performing a function.
It's is good that you are planning a world tour, because with this much energy in the flywheel and so little mechanical safety, you won't be allowed to play anywhere in europe
edit: also you should think about flammability and fire safety, because as a scenic piece (which this is, it's not really an instrument anymore), it has to be hard to ignite, self extinglishing and flame retardent
They won't allow this in the U.S. either.
Maybe think about putting the marble elevators on the outside. It would nicely frame the mashine.
Love the video and I like you seeing having so much fun with this again.
Just building and rebuilding was fun to watch. This is like watching paint dry.
Funnels despite not being very efficient, are very satisfying and beautiful to look at. They are also a staple in all things Marbles related.
I cant help but notice a "giant funnel" when i see that plate full of marbles ( 8:58 ).
Doesnt it look cool a HUGE funnel
I absolutely adore the giant flywheel idea (from an audience-member perspective). I'd just ask you to include safety into the designs. A giant, heavy, spinning wheel with open spokes providing energy to run the entire ensemble could catch the corner of your shirt and drag you along with it.
One of the things I love about watching early Wintergatan videos (pre-marble machine) is seeing the band moving round the stage to play different instruments - harp/typewriter/vibes/keyboards etc. I do hope that you’re going to include this aspect into your plans.
The new colour grading is spot on Martin!
Please do not forget that there can be a balance between function and aesthetics. Many bands will use lasers, fire, smoke, ect... to set a tone or mood. There is absolutely no reason that you cannot add some elements that would elevate the aesthetics, while also showcasing the beauty of the core designs/functionality of the machine. For example, the large flywheel you mentioned, can it be incorporated without jeopardizing functionality? Or, would it be better as a set piece to complement the entire vision? While I fully agree that it's important to highlight the core elements, there's nothing wrong with a bit of showmanship to bring the vision to life.
Your excitement is infectious I’m going to be smiling all morning 🤩
I'm beginning to really like the overall design you prototyped here. Love the huge flywheel, because it hits a nice sweet spot between form from function and artistic expression.
You are making Rock and Roll... ing marbles!
10:20 Most serious brainstorming session:
Can't wait to hear Paradis played on the full setup :) (Martin + The Band + The Machine)
This is such a great episode, love the combination of jokes and progress
"It's been a deliberate design process"
"XD"
i love that there is room for two in the middle, like daft punk. and then the bass walking around in front and on the side and the drummer jamming with his mechanical drum friend
If that HUGE wheel doesn't end up looking like WILSON, I am not coming to your shows.
If you are using Bowden Cables from the programming wheel, you can have a different angle from instruments to programming wheel. It is the great part about modular design, it doesn't have to be linear. Just an option.. we believe in you!!
Yes! Glad to tee the giant flywheel getting implemented.
Looks great!
"Decapitated by giant flywheel during music concert" will be a novel cause of death for the medical examiner's list.
I don't think the big flashy flywheel should actually be used to store energy. Keep that part down below where it can be surrounded by safety barriers. It might seem a bit dishonest to have a purely aesthetic wheel behind you, but it's the only way to do it safely.
Not the only way, but certainly the easiest way to make it safe. And IMO more importantly the best way to make it transportable and easy to reassemble while also being safe - a giant flywheel, strong enough legs for it, feet that spread the load enough it won't overload a venues floor, and all the registration and retaining mechanism to allow the real heavy flywheel to be mounted so high, and then some guard to protect from accidents is substantially harder than just putting the real flywheel horizontal under the stage section of the machine.
@@foldionepapyrus3441Given that Martin has zero concept of anything you just mentioned, what’s your prediction of an actual “world tour” occurring?
@@br52685 Martin has a great community of engineer types he occasionally listens to, and most of the points I mentioned have been mentioned before. So I'd say it will happen eventually as long as Martin doesn't burn himself out first.
Looking good Hannes! Gongrats on living right and getting fit. Keep it up!!
So much joy in this