Audit | Sheffield Train Station | BTP educated on BWV rules 👮♂️🎥🤳
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2021
- Today we visit Sheffield Train Station where I meet Ryan Rampage and Greater Manchester Media.
They where in the middle of educating a security guard about impersanating a police officer who then called the BTP.
When the BTP arrive, they didnt beleive us when we told them they should inform us once they start recording.
We also find a hidden velcro badge.
Enjoy!
The most professional officer you have encountered so far, What a good bloke, Wish there were more like him
So nice to hear a British Auditor who has a vocabulary.
yeah rather that "sausage" and "whats appenin guys" 😂
Hear, hear.
Please, never say “respect, bro.”
@@MrAndrewFarrow Respec init bruv.
@@beakytzw innit!!
What a great response from that police officer one-off the best seen
Another fascinating video. Interesting how that copper said he didn’t have the blue line badge, spent ages covering it over and then revealed it when he took the phone.
The BTP are generally nice guys. Never had an issue with them, they were always bringing my lad home when he was younger as he was always playing about on the railway line and they were always respectful and pleasant. They seemed nice guys too.
Yeah, but who took I'm to the railway line? Or did the police arrange to take him up the sidings?
Playing about on the Railway Line....And what did you do to discipline him?
If it was my lad, I`d have knocked the living daylights out of him..........What an embarrassment of a parent you are.
I have experienced the total opposite from the BTP. They have criminals in their ranks.
So, they were good at parenting as well! 😉
I agree they seem to be decent guys with the BTP.
In my younger days I got caught in my car smoking a joint in our local train station.
Explained my reasons and they laughed and joked about searching my vehicle for ammunition.
Told them as they had caught me fair and square,if they wanted to search the vehicle they were welcome to.
They just told me to just finish my joint and enjoy the rest of my day and walked off.
I totally get why you guys do this. But the cop with the beard deserved some politness and respect. Best to lead by example rather than trying to just get a "one up" on members of authority. Being rude, telling him he is dismissed, is only disrepecting your own self and makes your intentions to be provoking and confrontational.
You do a good job, so being gentlemen will insure you do a great job.
DJ is trying to educate these officers in what they should already know but they won’t listen and Don’t want to know how silly is that pardon
Its just all a little bit sad really.
Get a proper job and stop being a pain in the arse!
@@cloggso And who tf is DJ to try and educate the police? This officer handled him very well and pointed out where he was wrong. Then all he got for his politeness is to be told he was dismissed. This is why police are wary
of these auditors as usually they are rude and abusive, as can be seen here.
@@CB-xr1egyes I agree was very professional but people still moan
ABSOLUTELY LOVE your stuff @DJ AUDITS.
The consistent granular accurate detail/info you go into keeps my brain hooked, amused and delightfully enlightened. All the very best brother.
What a good cop. His nature and personality shone through here. We all wish to be approached by this type of police officer.
Love to see a great interaction like that. 2 great and well spoken officers.
This officer is a shining example of how I like to perceive police. Kudos to him, he dealt and conversed with you guys impeccably.
See him trying to hide his gang badge!! 🤬 🤫 😁
*"...their use is reiterated by officers wearing a sign/symbol and/or making a verbal announcement where possible..."*
*"As a general rule, where an officer is in uniform and is clearly carrying or wearing a camera, the ICO would consider that this condition has been satisfied."*
Notice the "and/or" in the first paragraph.. They are in uniform and the cameras are clearly visible, with a camera symbol and "video & audio" clearly stated on the camera itself, therefor there is no need for a verbal announcement.
Looking at a few individual force policy documents the use of the word "should" and not "must" means that while they "should" announce they are recording, there is no requirement that they "must" announce it.
*"At the commencement of any recording the user should, where practicable, make a verbal announcement to indicate why the recording has been activated."*
When PC who was recording attempted to compare it to the CCTV in the station.
There are rules which anyone using CCTV has to comply with, with regard to signage. It's exactly the same for body worn cameras.
The police may think it's clear when they're recording but of course it's not clear to members of the public which is why the police need to announce it.
Interesting interaction though.
The legislation regulating CCTV is the same as Body worn.
There is no specific act or statute that differentiates the two.
DJ Audit knows his rights and is doing very necessary work for public information .Carry on Sir.
Railways, Ports, Docks & Airports all have very strict by laws that Auditors really need to be careful of. Simply trying to use Sect 33 at any of these locations can get Auditors in a lot of bother.
"they have the chequers the other way round" just went completely over their heads lol.
That was a great eye opener .. all 27.57minutes of it and a 5* ending :-)
I really like the research you do and the documents display, we really should have been taught very different stuff in school but we know why we weren't, we leave school and become easy prey to the system which robs and incarcerates us, 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
SO VERY RIGHT, SPOT ON AND WELL SAIDl
The State does not want to educate it's citizens upon the law because it doesn't care about creating an orderly society, it cares about creating a society that obeys arbitrary orders issued by it's attack dog police and other instruments of titular officialdom whom they want to be able to act in a culture of unacountability. They view as as livestock!
Good answer
Yep, by design. I'm sure it happens all around the world.
Question for the litter picker ...Is it a hard job or do you just pick it up as you go along ?? ✌✌🇬🇧🇬🇧
Stop talking rubbish or you might get a dusting
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👌
Easy n fun find some right cash too
@@lukemorton8431 Spend it wisely 👍👍✌✌🇬🇧🇬🇧
The words... "as to be calculated to deceive" are very important in this legislation. It's one thing to dress up as a police officer to deceive people into thinking you are but another to just look a bit like them to give the perception of some kind of authority. I see where you were all going with his and also watched what happened to BANAMAN a while ago too.
That's why actors dressed as police can do so without any issue. It's because everyone on set knows they're not police and so they're not trying to deceive anyone. And such actors are warned not to go off set while wearing the uniform. But a security guard wearing it is trying to deceive and give the wrong impression by using the police look alike uniform to give the impression that they have authority when they really don't.
The ACPO guidance posted up from 2007 is coming up to 15 years old, just to put some perspective on how out of date that document was it'd be like showing a police officer in 2000 the original common law "judges rules" document and demanding they be followed when PACE was brought in in 1984.
A quick search however reveals a much more up to date guidance from 'Body Worn Video - The College of Policing" 2014. On page 7 there is this:-
_“The Act requires this information to be made clear to those individuals whose personal data will be processed. In the context of BWV, this is those who are included in the recording. There are various ways to inform data subjects that they are being recorded, including verbally at the time they are being recorded or, if this is not practicable because of an ongoing incident, as soon as possible afterwards. _*_However, as a general rule, where an officer is in uniform and is clearly carrying or wearing a suitably identified camera (clearly labelled as an audio and visual recording device) this condition is considered to have been satisfied._*_ Police force websites can also provide further information."_
1. The officers were in full uniform.
2. The cameras were overt on their vests and clearly visible.
3. The cameras had yellow stickers on which stated they were capable of recording.
By the letter of that guidance the conditions in law were satisfied. It seems this more modern guidance contradicts the ACPO release from several years earlier.
@@topcat1358
It'd be nice if DJ Audit actually acknowledged this, seems like a reasonable chap. 🤷♂️
The bit in bold is typical of the insidious watering down that is constantly taking place nowadays and is a recipe for confusion. What it effectively means is that members of the public must assume that they are being recorded, even if they are not. It puts the onus on them to ask rather than for the officer to inform. If the latter has discretion when during an encounter to start recording, absent any overt sign (for example a prominent flashing red light on the device), how can a member of the public possibly know whether or not the device is switched on?
@@maunsell24
Not really considering the actual original statute both pieces of guidance are citing has remained the same, which is the Data Protection Act 1998.
The newer guidance simply takes a more common sense approach based on newer caselaw and court rulings - the ACPO guidance was written when body cameras were new and only being used by specialist officers, the newer guidance had nearly a decade extra of court cases to go off.
It's common sense that a Police officer in uniform, with a body camera marked up as a body camera is recording you - let's be honest it isn't just a flashing light but an audible beep aswell.
The operative word whether it's from 2007 or 2014 is GUIDANCE.
@@B-26354 He won't because he was wrong. Guarantee he won't.
The lessons learnt here is Police will thob you off if your trying to tell them rules and regulations the force should comply by, impersonating a police officer is open to interpretation by the attending officers and they will agree to disagree.
Respect DJ, keep up the good work bro ✌️✊👊💯
Big up Ryan Rampage and Live Free!!
Thanks, it means a lot.
@@DJAUDITS always welcome just keep on keeping on!!! 🙏
That’s a pass from me.
Like Hugh Dennis said, it’s all about common sense
Very good interaction from both sides…🙂👮♂️
Common sense
The document you showed actually said "this does not apply to body worn cameras"
No it says it doesn't apply to "covert" cameras. Look up the word covert.
A great example of old fashioned policing and common sense well done
Sometimes it is fine to say, "you are dismissed!" to police officers ... this wasn't one. They were both fine and were respectful. DJ woulda been better alone here. I do believe that police should tell us when they are recording at all times.
Agree, that was rude.
@@kanelt2669 Telling them they're dismissed is just like little kids being cheeky because they can get away with it. It's tantamount to knocking on someone's door and running away. Pathetic and juvenile.
SO you summon the police for something that turns out not to be illegal anyway (council man's hi-viz), then proceed to give them a hard time, based on incorrect information. No wonder some Police officers don't like frauditors...
Good lord. The police are so poorly trained it's unreal
Is it poorly trained or is it a case of most of them are just thick.
As a note: in America, if I am being contacted by law enforcement. If I put my hand, in my back pocket. The police would definitely. Go. Hands. On. Meaning, physical contact. Its not right. Determine the risk. You're cops don't catty guns. Just some kind of club. Your everyday cops don't wear armor.. everywhere. Keep up the good work. I like your videos.
What if you are colour blind with the flashing light
Thay could not accept they was wrong could they
Great work lads keep it up
@@135Ops
Here you go I never said see flashing lights. This is what I ment
they are unable to fully 'see' red, green or blue light.
Any other officer probably would’ve arrested him because they’re dreadful but this guy actually appears to still be using his common sense it looks like he’s been doing the job for awhile if not then I would suggest that that’s the reason that he is so reasonable
Brilliant well conducted New articulate auditors. Welcome to the movement well done.
Brilliant DJ to the very end 👏
The officer #9405 needs an award or something! He's brilliant at dealing with people. One of the best interaction's I've ever seen. All the right answers, advice, information, he kept his views open and professional even though he didn't have to. Yea, great officer and great audit.
EDIT: Also, isn't 'guidance' (referring to the home office document regarding worn cameras) only meant as an option? Not a written rule. It's just there to guide people. Curious to know what they said when you heard back to them regarding letting people know they're being recorded?
Correct.. Guidance is not policy. Therefore the officers do not have to inform the subject that they are recording.
@@thecandyman2812 Absolutely. This "auditor" and his buddies clearly do not understand what the word "Guidance" means. And they haven't yet worked out that what they call a "gang badge" is no such thing. As the officer explained it is worn for charity purposes. The fire service and the ambulance services have similar badges with different colours.
@@thecandyman2812 Not only just guidance, but Home Office guidance. BTP are not a Home Office force.
RESPECT DJ WELL PUT MATE
Cheers mate 👌
My old man bless him, r.i.p used to feel proud when people used to say to him u look like a police man, he never wore anything other than black shirt, Black trousers and black shoes but many people had often said u look like police.. He used to beam with pride.. Ironic was that he had been in prison for 2yr as a 20yr old for aggravated burglary..lol..always puzzled me.
what im startin to see is guys know the law more than the law and they hate it bc its not there law which is normally unlawful ,,
PC 9405. Respect. This is great policing.
this goes higher up than UK law,,,,, ECHR European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms ECHR) is a European treaty in which the human and civil rights of all residents of the member countries are laid down (article 10). allows filming in the public sector, even people in public and in government buildings , everything you can see from public (even if you point into private buildings and sites) you can photo and record it since November 4, 1950, Google Earth does also
I actually agree with the cop, he's also being very reasonable.
@14:20 "we don't have to" only under RIPA 2000 ,therefore PC's are acting under Regulated Investigated Powers Act 2000 (asking permission in hand writing) (RIPA) their ""line manager"" is in question)
The Council worker might not have been verbally passing himself off as a Police Officer but he was wearing it in the hope that the public would think him one. Probably knocks one out thinking about it when he gets home.
They're not really interested in knowing the law simply because they know that they are above it - simple!
I never knew flyweight and super flyweight boxing world champion *Sunny Edwards* was a copper.
Cracking one hopefully they learnt something from you guys. 👍🏻👍🏻Caught red handed little dog in black 😍
Keep Up the Good Work gents. Maybe the Police might one day police by consent.
Operative words: GUIDANCE, Practicable, Reasonable!
TL:DR; Overall a friendly chat with police constables who didn't enforce their ego, but they did their best not to do their job properly and were a bit condescending.
Well dones lads backed up with knowledge as always, BTP officer seems to be oryt here still some nice ones left.
Incorrect knowledge.. but at least he's happy spreading his ignorance.
Well done DJ Audits
Banaman got escorted back to his car to make sure he took off his clothing that the Police claimed made him look like a policeman
That was probably so they could record his vehicle details, in order to flag them up...
The bearded policeman is the most professional I have ever seen on these videos
Copper in the middle talking looks so much like Rick Grimes at certain angles :D
Hey so I'm kinda new to these kind of videos etc.
Honestly you seem to be the calmest of the bunch. Just keep up the good work - expecially when you show the documents in the video. Thank you for not putting your cameras at head height or in their faces because of course it is intimidating to be challenged on the spot, and well done for acknowledging when he is correct, unlike many of your peers. Thanks for showing a relatively calm interaction and a good example of policing.
I would also note it's somewhat rude to use dismissed in this sense. It does imply a sense of superiority ie the instructor dismissing the class. Just keep it in mind :)
You are, by far, the best of the vloggers out there with regards photography and the law. You know your stuff. Many don't even know why or how the photographers and film makers were pished at the police, which goes back to incidents around 2007 - 2010 (Sect 44), let alone the actual laws surrounding public photography and those personal rights laws the corporate and public office worlds have to abide by. Great work, Sir.
As for the younger copper's comments at 15:29. Just because a document was put out in 2007 does not mean it is out-of-date. Many laws are still in the statute books from 1688 (the Bill of Rights) and there are still 3 parts of the Magna Carta (1215, reissued in 2016, 1225, and 1297) that are in effect, so would he say they are no longer relevant? And unless a Home Office 'Guidance' document was superceded by later guidance or formally withdrawn, then that 'Guidance' would still stand as being 'live' and can be used in a court of law or in a disciplinary case. And it makes no difference that ACPO has been superceded by the NPCC, because that is just one police body replaced by another...
ACPO (www.acpo.police.uk/About/AboutACPO.aspx)
'The Association brings together the expertise and experience of chief police officers from the United Kingdom, providing a professional forum to share ideas and best practice, coordinate resources and help deliver effective policing which keeps the public safe. '
NPCC (www.npcc.police.uk/About/AboutNPCC.aspx)
'The NPCC brings police forces in the UK together to help policing coordinate operations, reform, improve and provide value for money.'
They are one and the same in all but name. And this can further be seen in the NPCC's guidance of 2020, 'Auditors/Social Media Bloggers - Initial
Guidance', in which they reference ACPO's 'Guidance for Photographers' letter of 2010.
Would be interesting to hear how you get on with them if you make contact in 48 hours.
BTW... I'm not convinced the ACPO document covers the whole of the UK. I think it just covers the jurisdiction of England & Wales and not the other two - it's on the ACPO badge, the Executive Summary (page 6) mentions 'England and Wales' only, there is no specific mention of Scotland (save for Baronness Scotland in the Foreword), there is no mention of Northern Ireland, and contributions to the guidance were from the Police Federation of England and Wales and English Police Constabularies only.
Thanks, I will post an update on my community page with the reply about BWV verbal notice.
The document is out of date and for someone who seemingly knows a bit you'd have thought you would have come across the 2014 College of Policing Guidance which supercedes the ACPO guidance from 2007 (ACPO no longer exists.)
Its almost as if you're cherry picking what is and isn't relevant.
@@DJAUDITS 1:37 : Why does he take his Hat off before speaking to you all? I think I know, but I want somebody else to tell me why he did that.
RCMP could learn a lot from this vid!
Human being first!
Awesome encounter!
No wonder that there's never a policeman around when we want one. They're all tied up talking to you guys. The term Philadelphia lawer springs to mind. Meanwhile our old ladies keep getting mugged.
Brilliant work boys 💪
All this where’s the security guard gone ??????
I'm a retired police sergeant and I know just how far to push it. I have a de-badged ex police hi-viz in my car to wear in the event of a breakdown, bought legally on e-bay. I am now a residential landlord with properties in a seriously rough area. I have been followed and threatened in that area in the past. When collecting rent I now wear body armour that just happens to have a charity blue line flag badge on it and a I wear a kit belt with cuffs, leg restraints, first aid pouch and a Farb gell spray (Home Office approved indelible red spray). I have been challenged by a keen and eager young plod and ran rings around him. The cuffs and restraints are NOT offensive weapons, the dye spray is legal and the body armour is just good sense given the area.
so you require cuffs and leg restraints to collect the rent , thats interesting .
as there are some debt collectors who will rape the person and video it to get them to pay up .so can you kindly explain the usage of your restraints ?.
@@markdunkling1604 Course he won't - it's all fabricated in his head to make himself look 'ard
@@markdunkling1604 🤣🤣🤦🏿♂️🤦🏿♂️
Not calling you a liar, but having read all of that, I can't help feeling that you might have struggled somewhat with the Ospre/NPPF sergeants exam.
This doesn't sound good.
Good show!
It's a gang sign and they know it.
and he hid it , therefore lied when he said he wasnt wearing it. see @2:06
@@patthewoodboy You could see he thought he was a smart arse right away!
Hes a decent copper. This what we like to see and how we are making a difference.
Would be nice to hear the update after 48 hours - if plod looked into this?
Great a very professional police officer, nice to see retired lifeboatman,
So, from the guidance shown (The Legal Requirements) "... their use is reiterated by officers wearing a sign / symbol and / or making a verbal announcement..." So, in order of precedence, the requirement is to have a sign or symbol (the yellow label on the BWV unit), and / or a verbal announcement. So, using the 'or' logic, having the label on the BWV satisfies the Legal Requirement, and a verbal notification is optional.
Pity the policeman with 2 ears couldn't hear!
The officers were correct that they don't have to verbally tell you they are recording; "wearing a sign/symbol and/or making a verbal announcement" means one OR the other, not both. The camera has a yellow sign on it saying "Audio & Video" so that's enough.
your wrong - felicity? get it right
@@MrNicholas56You're* spelling is wrong. See me!
yep, your right
Great ending 😂👍🏻
EXACTLY THE WORD PERSEPTION!!!!! So there for whenever the police approach its based on an agreed PERSEPTION......But the public's PERSEPTION is questioned.....Shot himself in the foot!!!
Pure class lads!
So that's where Rick grimes is. The walking dead season 11 confirmed...
The bearded Constable was perfectly reasonable and pleasant and just shows how an interaction can be positive.
To be fair, the recording device guidance isn't a lawful document. It can't be used in court.
By default you should ask for a copy of the recording. If it isn't issued at your request and it is found in court that they have refused, there can be the appropriate actions taken for this.
Here in Australia you can not record anyone and use it for any purpose in a court of law unless you have informed and gained consent from the people being recorded. You can still record people for personal use or public use without their consent.
Never watched you before. I thought you were impressive. You put your points with humour but with obvious demonstration of knowledge. The officers were struggling to counter what was clearly law.ful guidance. Sad to say but I believe the short one (an obvious liar) won’t follow up to find out if he’s non compliant. They break rules tell lies because it’s easier and know they won’t be held to account. Anyone who thinks these officers will be told to follow regulations by their superiors in this regard are dreaming. Love to hear a follow up. Great if another auditor catches them out!
Fair one to this police officer, a decent chap
It should be all about intent. For example a female or male stripper dressed a a police person is not trying to be a police officer although they are trying to look like a police officer......
@@topcat1358 It doesn't have to be relevant. It's just a comparison.....
How petty is it to complain about them having their cameras on
I hope you make complaints to the British Transport Police for breach of dpa.
Looking at the document you highlighted to the police the words don’t say MUST they say SHOULD. Also, this was only issued for guidance so it reinstates its not a must do.
I do get your points but in this instance the police did nothing wrong.
Yes, Guidance only.
This is a really great discussion on something that the guidance can be misinterpreted. It would be great to see what BlackBeltBarrister makes of it, to be honest.
Calculated to deceive is the operative bit of that legislation btw… in other words, if he works for a council and he’s issued the uniform, it’s not calculated to deceive. In other words, they have to plan to give the impression that they are the police - and specifically a Constable or member of a police force, when they are not.
The police seem to hiring a lot of Dwarfs lately.
Maybe that is because they save costs on uniform material. 2 FOR one so to speak.
Used to b 6ft for male an5.6 for females. In 50s an60s. Not 100per shure. Then 5.6 males 5ft women. Now I don't know . But your comments on saving on cost brilliant. As they waste it on colourful cars with pride all over it.
The document explains all, it's 'guidance' not a code or standard operating practices.
It is defined as advice or information aimed at resolving a problem or difficulty, especially as given by someone in authority.
Not a rule, nor a code and most definitely not an 'act'. Therefore is classed as voluntary, not mandatory.
Opinions on how the police should operate and practise vary wildly. However, my opinion of this encounter is very much in favour of the BTP officers.
PC9405 was polite, respectful and informed at every stage. He was even open to advice. However, It's advice.
End of.
it doesnt need to be an updated version it hasnt been repealed therefore newer updates should not contradict current versions!
That guy in a high viz would not make me think he was a copper. I would think he was one of those ‘ambassadors’, who’s function is a mystery to me
Started watching, as soon as i heard the guy say thats offensive hes a scouse lad i clicked pause and thats the end of this video for me.
The Popo'sunderstanding of GDPR & Cameras is that 'if' they believe you have answered enough questions to be under suspicion, then they'll tell you they are recording, which usually follows by an arrest.
Anything said on their tape before they have told you it's recording is inadmissible evidence, but they edit the tape to suit their version of events.
Another good reason to always record the police yourself.
They always seem to mention you recording too, 'I don't mind you recording, because we are recording you also', ok if they don't mind why mention it 1st, I don't like red t-shirts, I don't feel the need to tell everyone wearing a red t-shirt that though in town.
Every day I see the sub count gaining!
Keep it up DJ!
Beardy BTP was completely reasonable. Good public servant......
The average salary for a Police Officer is £37,327 per year in London Area. Salaries estimates are based on 218 salaries submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by a Police Officer employees in London Area.
Intelligent and very pleasant Officer
I hate it when they say "it's just semantics" - what on earth do they think law even is?! Law *is* semantics!
debating over the high viz and blue and silver chequer wats the point 🤦🏼♂️ horse riders wear similar gear with POLITE written on the back ...my point is if the get up was pokice issue only then maybe ..but its not
Tha cop probably one the most inteligent of them all.
Those cameras are red light "on". That in itself is misleading. And I'm sure it's to fool the public. In every walk of life it would be green light "on". Funny one this though, all up for banter.
I'm in security & I'm NOT allowed to wear anything like that & I've worked train stations too.
i just noticed it says British transport police on this cops vest so basically he is a railway cop lol
It's good to see some police show how to be human
22:15 A camera is intimidating? Really? If such people think that they should stay in their home since there are cameras everywhere.
live free being the worst one out of them all hence the reason he is no longer or wanted on the platform!!!