The Alec Baldwin Incident - Information on the Single Action Revolvers | HCF
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
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HCF PRESENTS:
A comparison of A Colt SAA with safety defects with the EMF 1873 Blank Firing Revolver. Issues that are bound to be brought up in criminal and civil trials. How a "prop" gun can differ from a real gun and the types of ammunition that can used in both. How the EMF could have prevented the tragedy.
The PROP GUN IS ALSO SOLD AS THE GREAT WESTERN II Blank Firing Revolver. Manufactured by F.LLI Pietta.so add Great Western Revolver II and Pietta.
Please also remember the safety rules when handling firearms:
1) Never point the firearm at anyone or anything you’re willing to destroy.
2) Never put your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to fire.
3) Be aware and sure of your target and what’s around it and behind it.
4) Always handle a firearm as if it was loaded.
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TAGS
Alec Baldwin, Rust (movie), negligent discharge, accidental discharge, Colt SAA, EMF 1873, blank ammo, blank firing revolvers, 380 Blank, 9x17 S ALVE Blank, 380/9x 1 Salve -BLANK
Rule #1: Assume a gun is always loaded.
Just goes to show the sheer lunacy/hypocrisy of a producer who consistently virtue signals an anti-gun position and then, when it comes time to put his time, money and effort where his mouth is, decides to use a real gun instead of a blank firing prop gun. And then mishandles it in the most negligent manner possible.
The Gun belongs to a prop house, it's rented, 1960s Pietta Replica.
Typical democrat hypocrisy 🙄
Outstanding video friend.
The problem with regards to fingerprints, as I have heard it explained since this incident, is that fingerprints are basically deposited by oil and moisture on the finger being transferred to the object touched. It has been stated (and I'm sure it's clear I'm not claiming any expertise here) that the heat generated by firing the revolver softens and distorts those deposits making it unlikely to obtain a clear print. As I say, this is what I've heard from seemingly competent sources, but others here may have better knowledge or the ability to investigate this further.
Excellent explanation. A great point about using 'prop' weapons. There is no need to use live / real weapons. The prop one looks exactly the same.
Add in covid protocols which may have people using hand sanitizer more often and that's another reason fingerprints might not be on any shells.
Prop stands for property of the studio, doesn't mean fake
Amazing Video! Thank you for sharing!
7:25 It would have been determined immediately if the gun was damaged/malfunctioning immediately and the case would have been closed. But since there's an on-going investigation, the gun was functioning properly. The investigators are either now trying to figure out a way to help reduce the charges or are building a really tight case for it to be taking so long.
All set property the props master is in charge of are props not to exclude firearms,real or not.
Great breakdown! Thanks!
Why would some of the production crew walk out? What were their jobs? I think its possible that Baldwin and some of the crew were target practice ing on off hours and being careless mixed non blanks with blanks, and that’s why the extras walked off the set
Starting rumors about what happens on set when some of the reasons have been stated is odd to me. Producers have been working crew seriously long hours with no turn around time for sleep. It makes for a dangerous environment on set
I've had to walk away once from a set, a job, the 1st and only time I walked from any job. The producers we're stupid & didn't understand what they were doing. When this happens on a movie set, people can die. Most movie/TV sets can kill you if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Speculating doesn't work.
That is NOT the gun that was used. The Pieta long 0.45 revolver Alec used was an authentic replica, with the firing pin on the hammer, and no safety in the half-cocked position. It was a 4-click gun, made in the 1960's, with no modern safety features. The armorer's affidavit already admits she loaded the first 5 rounds before lunch and put the gun in the safe. She was having trouble getting the 6th round in, so she did that one after lunch. She claims the 6th round had a hole on the side. The problem is that the live rounds found on that set (they were not insured for live rounds, and no one knew there were live rounds on set) were either "not factory made" or "repackaged". Their ammo supplier, PDQ, does not sell live rounds. But the armorer's father gave PDQ a green can of live unmarked rounds for target shooting, at their request, on a prior production, and they refused to return it. Her father believes that PDQ mixed up those live rounds with dummies they sold to Rust. PDQ believes that someone else repackaged live rounds into cartridges that had holes on the side. Also, Alec's production credit was not related to financial management. He had a production credit for script supervision and casting.
Hi Marie. What is your point that it is NOT the gun used? Obviously this is for demonstrations purposes and the actual weapon is in evidence. It appears this is a 3 click as opposed to a 4 but it's the same principal. They all have hammer notices and trigger sears. Baldwins could have had a defective full cock notch. I'm so glad this guy has at least demonstrated that revolvers can fail as opposed to all the others claiming it can't. Apparently the can of ammo originally came from Seth Kenny of PDQ who got them as reloads from a friend and used them with Thell Reed on a previous movie shoot but that's now a contentious issue as to who did what and when because as you state PDQ only sell components and not live rounds. It's going to be a hell of a court case.
This going to be a difficult court case definitely
I learned gun safety as a kid playing around at a Cow Pond with a bunch of kids. LOL
I did a demonstration video of that 4th click locking the cylinder into position if you want to see what I'm telling you.
I guess celebrities are exempt from the laws concerning taking a life as he has yet to be a subject of legal criminal action.
Good video! When this case first made headlines, I felt Alec Baldwin was not at fault and the blame was on the armourer. Having worked as an arms handler in films, I can say it's not the actors job to verify safety. I felt this way despite not liking comrade Baldwin personally or politically. Most of these actors wouldn't know a blank from a bazooka round.
However, the prosecutor seems to have a case. This suggests there is negligence on the part of Alec Baldwin himself, and not simply the set armourer.
Great explaination of a true prop gun.
The word Prop in the film industry has historically literally ment an item or object owned by a film companies property department. Prop could mean a chair, bottle, table lamp, sword, knife, or gun basically anything used to stage a scene in its entirety. Prop has not ment the items functionality
Generally they will NOT fire from half cock, or a partially cocked hammer. The cylinder won’t index properly, and the pin hits on the rim of the cartridge, or between two chambers.
True unless the sear is damaged or the gun is rigged.
As I understand it the gun is designed so that the hammer can't drop past the half and quarter cock positions unless the trigger is pulled. What is the mechanism that prevents the hammer from falling past the half stop and quarter stop positions unless the trigger has been pulled?
Eveything else is irrelevant, if the person holding the gun does not check to see if it's clear, He is 100% at fault if he shoots and kills someone. End of story.
Your buying the story that he didn't check the gun, ever hear of plausible denial?
@@carrollsanders9376 no, what does that mean?
@@stephaniehooper386 It means if he checked the gun and missed the live round he would be even more responsible.
I can’t say for certain, but my money is on he was pulling the trigger and just didn’t realize it because he’s obviously not well trained or informed on how guns work.
..YEP. Now he’s running from his negligence
As far as I can tell he's been using guns in movies/shows for 37 years. He played a sheriff back in 84 I think.
@@barearmz2794 d. I’m pretty sure he has used guns on movies and shows before. I think Alec Baldwin is just ignorant on how guns work, but I know for a fact he’s had to of been taught weapon safety rules. No armorer is going to give a man a gun without briefing those to someone. Alec for sure was negligent with his handling of the weapon and got a woman killed due to it. This was a tragedy that 1000% could of been prevented if Alec wasn’t ignorant and ignored basic weapon safety rules.
@@polrish9570 Yep. There sure is a lot of shit going down on this one. There is a list of guns he's used from Colt's to Winchesters and sig's among others. It gets me he has no guilt. He just deflects the blame. Unfortunately there are so many variables in this. Ultimately it could come down to who bought the live rounds on set. I have another theory that if they were doing live fire training with reloads it could be that one or more misfired and got mixed with the dummies. That could let the armourer off the hook. But we wont know till the dust settles I guess. I think it's gonna be a long haul though.
@@barearmz2794 for sure probably mid to late next year things will be fully figured out
For goodness sake can someone please talk about Uberti safety on their hammer . Sense around about 2014 you can load all six chambers with live rounds and the hammer can sit against the primer and not apply any forward pressure to set the round off because the spur as a spring and detent in it , and the spur is only solid and set in place if the trigger is depressed for the full forward motion of the hammer .
Hence the expression "Going off half cocked"
So your concentrating on finger prints, you would seriously think Reeds finger prints would be all over them, after all those Dummy rounds are being used over and over. As to the word Prop it does not referance whether a gun is or isn't a fully functional gun, it's a referance to the fact its property of the prop department.
No need to use live / real guns these days. The blank firing replicas look just the same. Guessing this may become the law for movie makers.
No.. there's too much money to be made in the industry
The camera is digital these day's they keep running. If you have to they'll reset and do it again and again until the director gets his shot, (no pun intended) it keeps running, so where is the footage?
A single action revolvers hammer has a multiple click function. Each click brings the hammer back into the firing position, it also is advancing the cylinder/round to be fired into position to be in alignment with the hammer/ firing pin so having the finger slip off the hammer may or may not have the round in the firing position depending on how many clicks occured.
The ‘round’ is only in “alignment” to be fired..when the hammer is at ‘full’ cock position. You’re right, the other positions PRIOR to full cock are advancing the cylinder and the mechanics of the pistol.
Um. No! Each click does not bring the hammer back into the firing position. 1st click safety is to prevent the firing pin resting on a live primer. 2nd click is the half cock loading/unloading or free cylinder position. 3rd click is the cylinder stop engaging and 4th click is trigger sear engagement. This depends on whether you have a 3 or 4 click model of coarse.
@@m118lr Wrong sorry. The round is aligned on the 3rd click when the cylinder stop engages. The cylinder should only advance when the hand rotates it after the cylinder stop disengages and allows it to turn freely in the half cock position. As you cock the hammer further the cylinder stop should spring up and slot into the cylinder stop notch. Only then is it aligned with the hammer/ firing pin. On full cock the trigger sear should engage. Then you are ready to rock and roll.
@@m118lr before half Cock, and after full cock the gun can fire Army tests of the Mechanism proved sear breakage is possible as is rigging the gun.
Baldwin’s cavalier and arrogant mindset caused him to be neglectful and irresponsible. He is certainly worthy of a proportional punishment.
Very good vid. !! that prop gun is perfect.
IDK of the timing of the shooting, but perhaps that gun of Alecs should of been empty til they were ready to film. Like it really takes all day to fill the drum with 6 blanks ?? empty it out when they are done. Cold Gun !! How about empty gun !!... and spin check.
Just procedures... that would of eliminated a tragic work environment death and injury. And Alec is calling for hiring cops on set so this dont happen...yaaa right.
Working in a very deadly environment .... Safety procedures are #1 over production.
When is Alec Baldwin getting arrested?
You might check the definition of prop from Webster's dictionary...
@ 1:05, head on top? It's a bullet
What are those grips made out of? They're really cool
It was not snake shot it was a slug
It was not a toy gun it was a real gun that shoots real bullets
Letting your finger slip at half cock like that is Very Bad for your gun
No wrong ! it only fires if it has gone all the way to 4th click. 4th click is the cylinder lock engaging the bottom notch on the cylinder which aligns the firing pin with the bullet primer. Only when the primer and firing pin are aligned with the gun fire.
My friends Tom and Tony did Gun fights at Cowtown here in Wichita, they had very nice 38 caliper cap guns. Looked very real !
No look again the bullet is not in position to fire until the 4th click.
I wonder how many people have abused this gun since 1966. 3rd click is the cylinder stop. 4th is the trigger sear engagement. I just watched a youtube where the guys saa fires from the 2nd half cock notch when he pulled the trigger. So yeah, they can fire before you get to the 4th click. A broken or worn hammer notch will do it. Then you have to replace it.
@@barearmz2794 Well I don't know if you watched my demonstration video but my Peacemaker third and forth clicks about the same time. But I will Tell you Absolutely it will not fire until the loud click that is the cylinder lock snapping into the cylinder notch. Because it is only then that the bullet is directly in front of the firing pin !!!
Oh and replacing parts only takes a few minutes.
@@TobaccoRowe1960 Yep. Watched your demo. Check my comment from yesterday. My problem is all these fools making statements and video's on CZcams that a revolver can't do what Baldwin claims it did. I don't claim to know what happened on the set but I have seen these guns fail. Parts are metal. They wear and they break sometimes. I've seen cylinder stops not pop up and engage so while the hand was functioning, the cylinder would not align. There are a multitude of possible mechanical failures that "CAN" occur but for those idiots to claim OH this can't happen because I can't make mine do it is just ignorant. But thanks again for the demo.
@@barearmz2794, did the gun blow up in his face? Because on second click, the cylinder is not only offset from the firing pin, the chamber is offset from the barrel. So if a round did magically discharge, it would have slammed into the frame of the gun, causing it to turn from a hand gun into a hand grenade.
@@kennethcollins7665 Not sure what your point is. 2nd click is half cock and the cylinder would spin freely. We already know he said he pulled the hammer back as far as it would go "without cocking it" so according to his statement he has his thumb on the hammer between 3rd and 4th position which means the cylinder stop has already engaged and the primer would be aligned with the firing pin. He then states he let the hammer go and the gun went off. I don't know why he would let go of the hammer or his thumb has slid off it but if there was a mechanical failure the hammer could have fallen on the primer and bang. Unlikely but possible!!!
It occurs to me that with the technology we have today these dummy rounds could be made out of plastic. Like a replica. Has that ever been done? Are plastic rounds available so that there is really no way to confuse the two?
More expensive than using recycled rounds, to build dummy bullets.
There are, ones made by Magpull
What is being missed, is that the production company modified the revolver. They filed the hammer because they were fanning the gun.
What do you mean "filed the hammer"? Do you mean they filed down sear stops and notches? First I've never heard it established that was done to the firearm in question. Secondly that modification would have no effect on fanning. An unmodified single action revolver can be fanned just fine, thank you. Not only would that kind of modification, making it so that the hammer will drop without the trigger being pulled, make the gun useless for normal use, but since those parts of the revolver are case hardened, filing away those parts to expose unhardened metal underneath would irreparably damage the gun. So what you are arguing is the production company 1. Modified the gun to do something that it could do just fine unmodified 2. Prevent the gun from operating normally and 3. Irreparably damaged the internal lockwork.
So I really have to ask where you got this information from.
Where did you get this information?
A slap gun is possible. Actor & reporter Mark Ghobert(check spelling) mentioned them. Slap guns are SAAs that are converted to fire rapidly by using the gun hammer. Slap guns are meant for expert level SASS shooters, gun users. Not actors or crews. The FBI lab, NM cops will look at it.
@@DavidLLambertmobile Really? And what is done to this single action to make it fan faster/better?
Where you there, again a theory. What's not a theory is the fact if you hold the trigger and fan the hammer the gun rapid fires.
More assumptions and what if's. Everyone thinks they are an expert.😢
Few actually are.
Incident is when there are no casualties, this was an accident, learn first so you can pretend better
do the authorities have the actuarial gun though ?
YEP!
If the gun was modified, we would know by now.
Not necessarily, they may keep that under wraps till all the evidence is in and tests are complete. Then they could maybe arrest a heap of people all at once. They've only just got a warrant for Baldwins phone.
@@barearmz2794 The gun can be lead wedged in ten seconds to shoot when the hammer is cocked, old cowboy trick to get a duffus to shoot his own foot in the fast draw.
@@carrollsanders9376 Are you claiming sabotage??? 🤨
@@barearmz2794 Well think about it, if everyone is telling the Truth it would almost have to be.
Amourer loads the gun, with Dummies, Half Cock is functional, gun left unattended, gun is picked up off of cart and given to Dave Hall's, Dave Hall's hands gun to Baldwin, now gun has sear Malfunction with loaded round at battery causing accident that Kills Cinematographer. Only takes a minute to load and rig a Revolver. czcams.com/video/PASwJ1QI05o/video.html
@@carrollsanders9376 There are a lot of possibilities. Like a misfired round being mistaken for a dummy. If you have ever had a reload not go bang and put it aside it looks just like a dummy round. And they sure can go off on the second attempt. So if a few misfired rounds ended up with the dummies it's possible the the armourer being a novice has loaded one or more. That way you don't have to rig the gun but you'd be counting on a lot of things falling into place.
The prop gun looks cheap and fake. Not good enough for Hollywood. You need an exact replica. I've got a air pistol that looks identical to a 9mm. I use it for video.
The gun is made by Uberti and is a direct copy with internal modifications
IT IS NOT CHEAP AND DOES NOT LOOK FAKE.
Nobody can argue with Alec Baldwin's statement that he did not pull the trigger.
Plenty of people are arguing. They just don't have any evidence to back it up.
This is getting boaring now !!