Why Ventnor Needs A Railway | Island Of The Future
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2024
- In this episode of WightWanderer we discuss the issue of land movement around Ventnor and what it means for it's decaying roads, is a railway the solution?
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A big Thank you to Wight Drone who allowed us to use part of their footage of Bonchurch Landslip in this video, here's the link to the full video on their channel:
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Music:
Vectronia- used with permission from artist:
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All other music is written by J. Singleton
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Docs: 2020 Island Railway Extention feasibility study/proposal: available to download via iwightinvest.com
Images:
isle of wight railways map image: Wiki images - used under CC liscence 3.0.
Undercliff Drive 2014 collapse image: Cr: OnTheWight webpage link: images.app.goo.gl/Kny6dfMcgsD...
ventnor tunnel north portal image: Cr: B.Passmore / flickr.
Maps:
UK Os Maps published 1948: maps.nls.com
Google Earth App c.2023.
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That was excellent thank you! I've lived in Ventnor since 2008 and have always wanted the train to be reinstated, and since becoming a shop owner in the town in 2017, I'd like it even more! Videos like this can only help make it a reality one day. Thanks again!
Thank you! Hopefully it will or a simular solution is implemented soon. Either way I'm going to keep the ball rolling best I can as it seems to have caused quite a stur online 😊👍
I have blogged before on the subject of re-opening Shanklin to Ventnor, and knew it was being looked over again. Time to stop thinking what might be, and start doing what is, really, a no-brainer. Having been to the Isle of Wight three times in recent years, and taken the bus to Ventnor, I immediately saw a possible solution, and in fact wondered why the electrification hadn’t been done back in the sixties.
It will cost a lot, but had it been done then, it would have proved the investment years ago.
There were two specific reasons why BR did not electrify down to Ventnor. Firstly there was a poor business case for cited by BR for the retention of this section of the line. BR knew from ticket sales and receipts that the bulk of passengers during the summer alighted at Shanklin and some at Ventnor, even less during the winter months. Secondly and the real killer was the £264k needed to fund a 4th traction substation, 33kV OH line connection, conductor rail etc. BR only just managed to electrify down to Shanklin from Ryde Pier Head with three traction substations and their 33kV OH Line connections on £500k, a sum that had government approval. But IMHO was under estimated as the BR staff that did this estimate did not fully understand the needs of the scheme and the best brains were on the Bournemouth scheme, so I was told. Indeed their estimate for the scheme down to Ventnor was £64k IIRC. Whist the councils did pressurize BR to electrify down to Ventnor this BR refused; but suggested the councils fund the fixed and running costs of the scheme. This they too refused citing that it was an additional cost that would be a financial burden on their ratepayers the bulk of whom were retired anyway. To do this scheme today is fraught with problems. Land has to be repurchased, bridges rebuilt, a business moved to a newer location at Wroxall. Then there is the issue of the water main and sewage pipes that go through the Southern Water owned tunnel. Also the Southern water has the water main under the course of the old railway line from Wroxall onwards. No double these may be solvable but with deep pockets.
Absolutely agree with your proposal! The civil engineering necessary to reinstate the line that you discussed would not be that difficult. The link would breath new life into Ventnor and potentially the entire island.
Sorry I've just got around to replying to your comment. It wouldn't be as difficult as it may seem to reinstate the line, the difficulty now lays with the train operator itself as in the last few months issues with the island line trains has come to light. Maybe a tram or guided bus system is the answer 👍 thanks for watching 🙂
@@WightWanderer Thanks for the reply. Assuming the Island Line train and track issues are fixable, it would be more convenient to extend the existing track to Ventnor rather than opting for trams or guided buses which would probably be a lot more expensive and necessitate a change at Shanklin.
@@jamesgilbart2672 No worries. Yes in theory it would be much more logical. Unfortunately the issue seems to be with the trains themselves and wear on the wheels (they currently have 4 out of 5 units out of service for repairs) so if the line is extended then either the existing track would need to be relaid in order for the rolling stock to be maintainable, or the units themselves swapped for lighter stock (this is unlikely as the trains were only renewed in 2020). The point still stands though, Ventnor Needs a sustainable public transport system which doesn't rely on the roads which are crumbling. Therefor, the old trackbed through the chalk of St Boniface should be used to its full potential, in order to safeguard Ventnor's transport access. It may soon be the only way in and out of Ventnor not at risk of collapse.
If Labour get in (which as I'm sure youve noticed looks likely) they plan to nationalise the railways (apparently) so we'll have to see how that affects private companies like SWR. There may be a future plan to standardise rolling stock - in which case - a case could be made to revamp the entire island line again with overhead power and maybe a lighter and more economical tram stock. This is all conjecture though of coarse.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, all the best 🙂👍
Part of the reason for the closure of the line to Ventnor was that at the time the tunnel was wet and it was deemed not economic to sort this, remembering that water & electric third rail don’t mix well. It was only later that they found out that the water was coming from a leaking water pipe and this, of course, would have been easy & cheap to fix.
Thanks for this info, I did not know this. And thanks for watching 😊👍
The reason why the section of line closed was because BR stated that it had a poor business case for its retention, as the bulk of passengers alighted at Shanklin during the holiday period, and not that many at Ventnor, even less during the winter months, if any at all. BR knew this from ticket sales and receipts, and when closure was announced in March 1964 BR was adamant about this issue when discussing it with the local Councils. Ventnor station for all its charm was some 300ft above the town, and passengers alighting had to walk down steep hills to get to their holiday accommodation, B&B, or Hotel. Catching a bus at Shanklin would mean a journey directly into the town. Not to mention the walk back up the hill at the end of the holiday, with suitcases, souvenirs and kids in tow. Worst still was the cost to electrify down to Ventnor as a 4th 33kV/650V DC traction substation, 33kV OH line plus connections, conductor rail and extra train stock would be needed costing £264k; funding BR did not have authorized to spend by the government, at that time. They only just managed to electrify from Ryde PH to Shanklin on £500k, as agreed with the government. Whilst the local councils pressurized BR to fund this, BR countered stating that the councils could fund the fixed and running costs of the electrification to Ventnor. The councils OTOH refused this stating that it was an additional financial burden on their ratepayers, the bulk of whom were retired anyway. There the matter lapsed, with BR closing all correspondence on this. Plenty of info on this in the PRO at Kew, so I have been told!
@@michaelhearn3052 Thank's for that. I find it quite believable. However the world has now changed and the road connections to Ventnor are now at risk.
I submit that not only should the tunnel be reopened, but a goods service is also required. The station needs a goods yard where people and goods can swiftly transfer to a fleet of electric vehicles for the final glide to their destinations in the town. Given the range such a fleet would need I would have thought EVs would be highly appropriate, and avoid the need to tanker in the liquid fuel...
While the option to put standard size shippng containers is needed, I can't help wondering if there would be a market for quarter-size or even eigth-size ones (by volume) which could be clamped together to make a standard size crate. I can find it more easy to imagine local shops ordering goods by smaller containers, or even offering the old idea of "Luggage In Advance"?
Thank you for your opinions so far, please keep them coming! The purpose of this video was mainly to raise the issue and to emphasise the fact that it is not going away any time soon, so a solution is needed as we all know. What is that solution though? Many thanks for your comments 😊👍
The year is 1963. You could then see a little boy alighting the train from Ryde, together with his family of course, and walking the steep hills of Ventnor to stay in the vegetarian hotel. I have so many memories of this wonderful town, including all 10 of us piling into our mate's Triumph Herald and driving up the steep roads. Also climbing St. Boniface Down with my Dad, and swimming in the sea at the sandy beach. To think the railway now stops at Shanklin! Restore! Restore!
Well researched; well 'argued' and well presented. Excellent work.
As one who - along with my parents - were residents in the mid-'60's (and remember the rail tunnel collapse very well as it almost killed our business on the seafront [The Slivermere Café]) AND with family still living on the Island, we would welcome the the investment in the railway link being reinstated.
Thank you for your comment and kind words! Must have been wonderful to have seen the railway in steam days, hopefully the railway is something that can be reinstated, certainly an alternative to the roads is needed. I will be going on the radio soon to discuss this matter so if you have any ideas surrounding the topic you would like me to discuss then let me know. Thanks again 🙂👍
i think that with other changes in going carbon neutral a light rail tram could also link Cowes to Sandown - linking to a Ryde PH to Ventnor. Why tram, means you can put rails in road around Newport ! Maybe people want to see better ways to travel?
vivid memories of the May 1996 Railway Modeller magazine featuring a diorama of a potential new Ventnor station, a two-car platform next to a tunnel and squeezed in between two other properties
@@RoamingAdhocrat Hopefully one day will become a reality 😊
As an East Midlander, we have the Ivanhoe line, and the Robin Hood line. Both lines closed by The Beeching Report as unviable. Both reopened and now profitable..
More thoughts - reopening old railways is currently the sexy thing - levelling-up anyone? It is therefore certainly a possibility but lots of local support is essential. The reopening of the Leven line up here in Scotland is a case in point, it generated loads of local action. For the record, I have spent many holidays in the IoW since 1964, and recall travelling behind steam trains under St Boniface down. I have brought my own children here when they were small. Ventnor is a beautiful place, it would be a shame if it crumbled away for lack of interest/understanding from the residents.
An interesting video and well argued. 👍 As a railway enthusiast, of course I'd love to see the line to Ventnor restored. Not being a Vectian, though, I must leave the opinions to those directly affected.
It seems my holiday on the island at the end of September was just in time! I drove along that road several times during my stay and I've seen a couple of videos in the past week showing the section further west between Brook Green and Freshwater also perilously close to the edge of the cliff. Hard to find a permanent solution on a temporary coastline. 😐
Ultimately, it'll come down to economics. However, the current push by the government is towards 'Active Travel' which is primarily there to ensure that non-car modes of travel (predominantly walking and cycling) are prioritised over car use. However, if you applied that principle to train travel, that too could see less reliance on the car. And as you say, Ventnor might not have much choice if nature has its way and roads are lost. Food for thought. Keep the great videos coming.
Thank you so much for your comment and the kind words! I couldn't have put it better myself 🙂👍
An excellent presented and researched video - well done. Let's hope the idea is taken forward by the Island authorities.
Thank you for your kind words! I've been invited on the radio in March to talk about it so hopefully that will help, got a few plans ahead to try and Drum up more interest. All the best 😊👍
Totally logic, having been a regular on holiday to the family cottage in Ventnor in 50s and 60s I know of the trek back up to the station with cases when going home. But if, and I hope it is, reinstated the idea of a cable car may possibly be viable, but just use what is already there, at no additional construction expense-- the roads from station down to the town and use a small bus shuttle service to and from the lower town to coordinate with train timings. A small addition to train fair to cover cost ??
Great video! Ventnor definitely needs a railway despite the expense and challenges of reinstating it. I think the benefits outweigh the costs economically and environmentally as those roads are as dodgy as the number 6 bus service
Thank you for your reply! Yes a railway or a simular solution is definitely needed. Wonderful town and very important part of our island 😊👍
The problem with this country is that we know the price of everything but the value of nothing,we always go for the cheap option but this rarely the best value,the railway will cost an extortionate amount of money to reopen but the value will also be extortionate and could revitalise the whole island
Ask the IOW Tourist board, and the Chamber of Commerce, what would happen to Ventnor if the last remaining road also became impassable. Re-instating the railway would be top of the agenda pretty sharpish!
I remember going to Ventnor in 1963 by train, and hearing the little steam engine exhaust echoing off the tunnel roof as it struggled up the climb to the station.
Wonderful memory! Thanks for sharing 😊👍
In 1980 i went on a Golden Rail holiday to Shanklin and we spent the whole week touring by bus and train - it was great with no car to worry about. All the services linked up very well.
Great video with superb honest content! Im afraid all councils are the same until they have to do something they wont! and thats a fact however the reinstatement of the railway must be an option as sooner or later the residents of Ventnor will see the value of their homes along with poor transport links really impact on them and the town will become a ghost town slowly decaying and no person would want to live there!
Thanks for sharing and being honest in our content!
Thank you for your comment! Yes it certainly is an uphill struggle and is something that will not happen over night. I think it is very important that we do discuss this now though as the decay of these roads has recently become very apparent and we find ourselves in a very tight spot for Ventnor. A long shot would be the government's 'Restore Your Railway Fund' programme which would insure that the counsil themselves wouldn't have to front much of the bill, a long shot but possible.
Like you say for the residents of Ventnor themselves an alternative must be found. Anyway, for now I feel it is important to discuss and raise the issue and get as many peoples opinions on it as possible. Thank you so much once again for your comment & have a wonderful day 😊👍
I think a new tunnel for cars with the railway reinstated using the old one would be great 👍
That would be a solution definitely, either way a solution is needed 👍
Born and bred but left the island 40 yrs ago. I agree..Ventnor is crying out for a train to go thru that amazing tunnel south of Shanklin..it would be a real exciting draw in the summer season, and if they can do steam be even more brilliant.....How come the Havenstreet heritage lot cant do it?
Very well created and narrated video
Thank you and many thanks for watching too! 😊👍
As a Brit mainlander of 70yrs who Has seen the Error of Dr Beaching, but also the rise, of the DLR and Wolverhampton's Tram system, Mayhap a Light rail system, or a Tram system, would be better suited, to the Island
Thanks for your comment! Absolutely agree a light rail system or perhaps guided single decker electric bus system using the trackbed would be a step in the right direction. 👍
I wonder how many 1000s of visitors Ventnor has lost by losing its Railway Station? One of the dumbest acts ever.
It is a shame you are right, though hopefully it has a future 🙂👍
This is absolutely fantastic. You explain complex issues clearly and cogently.
Thank you so much, that's very kind of you to say 🙂👍
Very interesting buddy 👍🏻 How short sighted governments were closing down railway lines on your island 🏝️ and the same on the uk 🇬🇧 😢 All that money wasted on HS2 could of been used like reinstating the line to Ventnor 👍🏻🏴
HS2 is essential infrastructure and the cancelling of the Manchester Link is short sighted. However the line to ventnor is also essential infrastructure - all the money wasted on Road schemes could have been used to provide these rail projects.
As with shopping centres the car was the "modern" thing and people were getting prosperous enough to have a car of their own and abandoning public transport.
All the planning at the time was going towards the car and no one foresaw the congestion and pollution back then.
Modern shopping malls have also killed the town centre.
I've been to the IoW a few times and a car is actually a hindrance and the last time we were there we made use of the railway and the bus and connections to the mainland at Ryde.
We stayed in Ryde and it was so easy to get around as all the transport was literally on the doorstep.
As someone else has said maybe some lateral thinking is required and possibly some sort of shuttles are required and that would allow the stations to be some distance from any possible cliff fall.??
If Cowes and Newport could also be linked up in some sort of circular route that would greatly increase the footfall.
HS2 would make the case for restoring these branches stronger as now these branches will have more places to go to with HS2 connecting to it
the 1960s Tory government wasn't "short-sighted" as much as "appointed a Transport Secretary who owned a road construction business"
Well done, excellent presentation on a pressing issue 👏
Thank you! Sorry I've just got around to replying to your comment 🙂👍
Yes indeed. A wonderful idea!
Glad you think so! Thank you for your comment 🙂👍
First off I have to congratulate you on a well presented and balanced argument on the issue.
You may be a self proclaimed railway nerd but the situation that you have outlined and the consequences of doing nothing are plain to see.
I was born on the island and lived in Ventnor up until 1979. I remember how busy it used to be when I was a nipper and it’s a sharp contrast to the situation it’s in now without said transport issues.
Sadly I suspect although it makes sense it won’t happen, it’s more probable that it will be bodged until it’s all but cut off.
The financial costs for reinstatement of the railway mean that unless central government get their money out it won’t happen.
On a side note you say that Southern Water own and maintain the tunnel. If it’s the same company that have failed miserably everywhere they operate including where I live now then I suspect the tunnel may well require more work to become usable once again.
Keep up the great content.
Allan
I thought when they rebuilt the Island Line that a conversion to "light rail" would have been better. Then the Shanklin-Ventnor section could have run partly in or beside roads where restoring the railway would be too costly and it might have been possible to have a terminus nearer Ventnor town centre? Certainly reusing the tunnel would be possible.
Light rail I believe was mentioned in the proposal but never came to pass. I believe using the infustructure that is already there from the previous railway connection is perhaps a lot more viable a solution but I may be wrong, maybe there is a better route and a light rail system is the answer which is why I'm interested in hearing all your opinions on the issue. Thank you so much for your comment 🙂👍
Restoring the rail connection has to be the most obvious answer, but at the same time, i would reopen the Sandown to Newport line, and have a Ventnor to Cowes service also, which would link Ventnor with Newport, and Cowes directly via Sandown, that way improving public transport links between the two towns. @@WightWanderer
That's a really well constructed argument and well put together. It does seem quite possible that Ventnor could be cut off. The rail link should never have closed. It would be great to see it back but I doubt it somehow. Maybe we could open Ventnor Werst again!!!
It is a pressing issue and a solution is needed certainly.
Ventnor West railway would have connected through the tunnel from Whitwell and seeing as the Whitwell Road is possibly the only road which is not in danger, the issue itself I think lays on the other side of ventnor and finding a solution to the vast amount of traffic between Shanklin and Ventnor which no must got the lond way around, obviously the railway connected these 2 towns directly. Thank you so much for the kind words, and thanks for watching too 😊👍
@@WightWanderer my Ventnor West comment was a tongue in cheek one. One of the problems was that Ventnor station is way above the town and esplanade. If it did happen then maybe some thought to some sort of connection from station to town would probably be needed as well.
The biggest mistake after closing lines was not leaving the trackbed intact for a period of time,we all understand that maybe the railway ran at a loss back then so maybe had to close but the trackbed should have been left intact for a period of say 20 years,had that happened the railway would almost certainly have reopened by now as the reinstatement cost would have been much lower and would be successful
I never understood why they closed the section from Shanklin to Ventnor whilst keeping the rest of the line to Ryde open. Even more short-sighted was not preserving the track bed for possible future use. But, then, you could say that about most of the rail closures. I really hope they do reopen this but I fear it will take a long time.
Two reasons, firstly, BR stated that the business case for the retention of the section down to Ventnor was poor; and secondly the £264k cost to provide a 4th traction substation 33kV OH line connection and conductor rail. BR did not have that money sanctioned by government to spend.
"At the time" being the operative phrase.
Great video and absolutely right in your dialog. I must say that as soon as the Leeson road closure happened my first thought was reinstating the railway. Governments can supply the money with grants for projects such as these and as you say we need to look into the future and how people will travel sustainably. With the savings from HS2 maybe there will be more money around.
Yes, it certainly is not an issue that will be going away any time soon. Obviously there is also the government's 'Restore Your Railway' fund as well which could be an option if pitched correctly. A solution is needed soon though or we will be in danger of loosing public transport connections to a substantial & beautiful part of the island 👐. Thank you so much for your comment, and thank you also for your kind words 😊👍
Hi,enjoyed watching the video,my family visited the island which like one of visiting Ventor ,and other locations around the island, hoping railway line get back like travelling on trains
Many good points well made . I think there would need to be some sort of shuttle bus service from the station to the town centre and sea front though, the walk up there with bags or cases would be a real effort ! I also think re opening the route from Sandown to Newport (and maybe on to Cowes) would give the towns a boost and help keep some of the traffic off the roads. .
Thank you for your reply! Very much agreed, though I do think the Ventnor Line does need priority over others due to the fast deterioration of the roads and lack of another mode of transport. A shuttle service would be needed though only 1 bus is necessary to link up with each 30 minute train service. That said, the Sandown to Newport would also be a wonderful thing to see in the future 😊👍
A very interesting video - you hit on all the key points. The main issue I see to this is financial - even if going down the compulsory purchase route for private land, the cost of rerouting the water pipe, creating an alternative cycle path, digging out and stabilising the cutting, relaying the track and installing infrastructure, crossings, stations etc etc - it’ll ultimately come down to the question of investment versus return and this will be where the big debate will ensue. As economics don’t always consider the big picture.
The population of Ventnor at the last census was about 5500 and Wroxall 1700… now of course these figures exclude tourism, nearby towns/ villages but with other projects around the country potentially serving more - it’s whether the justification can be made and also it’s a case of finding the money to do it? Higher taxes? Cuts elsewhere? Borrow more in the hope the projects can raise the revenue to repay it? It poses some tough questions for sure - none of which I have the answer for 😂
I personally like the idea of reopening the line, as SWR/ Island Line in theory at least have sufficient rolling stock already to make it happen with the 5 ‘new’ units - as I’d imagine the extension would likely only call for one more train to run which means so long as 3/5?-43 serviceable - it should work without further investment. I am hugely in favour of opening as many lines as feasible but I admit I am also biased as a rail nerd!
One argument missed however was the position on building new 3rd rail lines - essentially for a lack of a better word ‘banned’ - not in law however NR and others have basically stated that on safety grounds no more should be built. I think this would be relatively easily overcome in that OHLE is not practical for the IOW, and diesel would be seen as not being environmentally friendly - possibly a battery system which charges from the 3rd rail could be used, meaning it runs electric to Shanklin battery to Ventnor but this would mean modifying rolling stock or even replacing what they have.
For me however - I think there were opportunities missed when they did all the work on the lines - if the track was relaid to a higher standard by which they could increase the speed limit to say 60 or 70mph rather than its current 45mph - this would vastly speed up services and lower journey times, thus making the train a better prospect and I feel if they had done that, there would have been an even stronger argument for the Ventnor extension.
Anyway a lot of waffle in my comment! Sorry about that! I enjoyed your video - it was well put together and argued and it provides a lot of food for thought!
From the size of the water pipes shown in the video, and something I've read elsewhere but can't recall exactly where, it should be possible to move the pipes within the tunnel and have room for both train and water pipes. As for the 3rd rail point, the recent Merseyrail extension of a mere mile from Kirkby to Headbolt Lane should have been a no -brainer for extending the 3rd rail, but no - they ordered a separate sub-fleet of battery capable EMUs for a mere one mile extension. The lack of common sense exhibited there is simply staggering. Hopefully saner minds would prevail for an extension to Ventnor.
@@neilpalmer230 yeah that decision on the Merseyrail network was all down to the anti-3rd rail stance that exists now so it becomes a hurdle for the island line especially as they’ve only recently had investment in a ‘new’ fleet of trains - so converting them to a battery/3rd rail hybrid will come at a cost which when added to the cost of dealing with the pipe, any compulsory purchases, track laying and infrastructure all begs the question of whether it becomes good value to the tax payer - only time will tell I guess but it’s frustrating that 3rd rail has become such a hurdle
Fascinating insight.. it may well come off.. I hope so.
You say in the video that Ventnor tunnel is dry...... however in the late sixties (68 and 69) a group of us young tearways occasionally walked the tunnel on Sundays and I remember the still in-situ track being almost completely underwater at points..
We believed this to be the spring which the tunnelers found during the building of the line. We understood this was then captured by the local water company to supply the town.
There was also a belief that this was why all carriages brought over from the mainland had their W.C.s removed.
Does this mean that Southern Water have dryed it out since then?
Great video. I'd very very surprised if the situation at the Smuggler's Haven stabilises: another year or two of autumn gales with the sea eating away at the cliff base may well re-activate the Landslip and see the chalk fracture further in towards Nansen. I just can't see Leeson surviving more than another year or two. And increased rumbling traffic going over the chip shop graben at Newport Road will survey accelerate land sinking there? It's essentially a big sink hole / very long stress fracture.
I think you might over-estimate the technical difficulties here: they're actually rather modest. Would be good for some sort of independent engineering feasibility study and benefits/costs analysis to be undertaken of this project alone (not, as you say, lumped in with the far more difficult Newport re-instatement). We need a local advocacy group to push this and get local councillors, MP/s etc on board.
Hello thank you for your reply! That was very interesting to read, especially the fact you think I've overestimated how difficult it would be to reinstate. Certainly this could be true though there's no hiding it would be a big project, it would be a lot easier than rerouting the road as the underpinnings of the railway are already in place. As you state though, the land is on the move and will not be waiting around for much longer so a solution is needed. Thanks once again 😊👍
The silly thing is - reinstatement would be quite cheap and easy! Wroxall station may be gone, but the expensive bit - the tunnel - is still there, as is the station site at Ventnor. I walked through that tunnel, a good few years ago, and it was in excellent condition then. Tell Southern Water to move over a bit. Politicians: think of the kudos in re-opening this very easy project at minimal cost. Go for it !
Very well articulated - thanks for all your efforts in this project and good luck!
Thank you very much for the encouragement 🙂👍
Great video.
Very well researched, thanks for sharing 💙🧶🌈🍓
Thank you Jenny! 🙂👍
oh you are a railway nerd I didnt know haha, thought you a rocker! Seriously compatible in my view dude good to see you with your informative ideas and a great presentation voice too might I add.
Hello Robert! Sorry for the late reply ... thank you for the kind words my good man! Hope you are doing well yourself 😊👍
Excellent!
With vehicle arteries to Ventnor being severed and more forecast by coastal erosion and sustained rainfall agree makes total sense to reopen the express railway from Ryde to Ventnor as it was originally intended, Ventnor desperately needs access to tourists to keep the High Street, hotel & catering, sports clubs, etc.. and wider economy alive and would benefit from regeneration of the station area including the footfall of commuters and tourists.
Turning the closed road from Shanklin to Ventnor into an extension/continuation of the coastal footpath and cycle track network from Shanklin to Ventnor, with access for vehicles to their houses (like the closed road from Ventnor to Niton) would be most welcome.
Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words! 😊
I indeed can see the railway as a much safer and environmental more sustainable alternative.
We see so many roads overcrowded with cars finding their way trough villages because, lets say it friendly, the UK road network isn't the best designed and maintained in Europe.
So rebuilding a railway is the good alternative now for building bypasses and attracting even more cars to the area.
Buying out some old commercial buildings and relocating them isn't the greatest hurdle, but relocating the residents of the Brookside Cres in Wroxall is a bit more challenging.
Rebuilding the rest of the line to Newport from Wootton Common isn't that difficult in itself, but because it has to be done in cooperation with the IWSR makes it somewhat of a challenge.
One advantage is that third rail electrification would not be too intrusive to the image of a preserved railway.
An open goal would be rebuilding the branch to Bembridge, it is only a couple of miles and the old track bed is largely unobstructed by buildings, the bridge in St Helens is in place.
While the old station in St Helens remains complete with canopy it is in private hands, but a new stop can be easily made a bit further down along the Embankment road.
Only in Bembridge the line has to stop 100m before the original end and this may necessitate the reclamation of a bit of land from the swamp that is there, access wil still be possible from station road and maybe from the quayside road as well as an agreement can be made with the owner of the business parking at that side.
The immediate benefit to the area and the local economy would be very positive. If HS2, with no real economic plan can still be happening, then this has got to be possible.
Travelled to Ventnor by train on holiday with my parents in the mid 1950s.
Very interesting, even to a non-Wight resident. You need to produce some hard figures: Could the two affected roads be completely dispensed with, saving all the cost of reinstatement? Could the bus route be reduced to single-decker or even entirely replaced by the trains? Then on the subject of Newport: Could the Island Line continue from Ventnor to Newport, thus actually linking (in a roundabout way) Ryde with Newport? The Dept. "for" Transport actually has a policy of not extending third-rail electrification, which given the short distance would here be over rigid in application, but could be got round by the use of train batteries (in my view, a terrible idea). Whatever, I think that this will end up happening, it's so obvious.
Extremely interesting. You make an excellent case. if only the "powers-that-be" would listen.
I rcall Ventnor station being open back in the day and enjoyed the ride on the railway. The big problem is that the old station is perched high above the town and a pretty exhasting climb for pedestrians. Freight brought in by the railway would need to be offloaded for locla deliveries. Reinstating the railway will be very expensive, I belive some of the route at Wroxall has been built over.
Ventnor is in a difficult position, Leeson road is caught between a rock and a soft place and must have a limited life expectancy now.
I once attended a lecture on the geology of the IoW, Ventnor is a basket case when it comes to ground stability. Most of the town is vulnerable to movement. In fact the conclusion of the lecture was that much of the Island is steadily crumbling into the sea. The iconic Military Road seems to be the latest victim.
No easy answeres unfortunately.
Hi. Thank you for your comment! I do absolutely agree that cost is an issue. Seeing as some kind of connection is essential though, would reinstating the railway be the answer? Instead of just prolonging the roads life by re-routing it over farm land further up the hill. Or is there another solution? Anyway, thanks again and all the best 🙂👍
What an extremely well put together case 👏
I'm not a railway nerd, or at least I didn't think I was but I found this video via an island historic railway page. 😅.
I am however a Ventnorian with a keen interest in it's history.
Next time you're planning a wander anywhere near give me a shout and I'll come nerding with you. 🤓
Subscribed.
Road congestion is killing Britain and London should be examining its impact closely and actually do something about this situation. The narrow roads on the Isle of White clearly cannot handle the impact of increasing road traffic. The reinstatement of a direct rail link into Ventnor should be investigated, but the branch to Newport should also be practical in the same infrastructure project. I've always wanted to visit the Isle of White - ever since I found a c1842 Ordinance Survey map in 1981 among old drawings belonging to a long deceased relative in Melbourne, Australia. Finally saw it from the ferry in 2009, but still haven't stepped ashore!
Taking the precedent of the issue of the Dawlish seafront line, I don't think tha the government will provide funds for relief for Ventnor until after the town is *cut off* (because of a sudden panicked realisation of what is going on) and even then only in the most half-assed and incomplete ways. British transportation policyt has, ince the Beeching times, seemingly been decided mostly by optmism, hope and best-case scenario projections as they are cheaper in the short term (and no-one wants to think further than that).
Fantastic idea, where do I sign up??
I've never been down to Ventnor and the simple reason is that the train terminates in Shanklin so that's where I have gone on summer excursions. I suspect very many other tourists do the same. The return of the railway would make Ventnor a must. For the sceptics, tell me any reinstated railway in the country in recent years that hasn't been a success.
Thank you for your comment! Yes it certainly would be a shame to see such a wonderful place crumble.
Certainly the reinstating of other railways in the UK has significantly helped the flow of travel in areas that were previously axed from the railway system. Either way a public transport solution is needed. 🙂👍
We’ve recently had the Okehampton service reinstated here in Devon and it’s absolutely thriving,a new station is also being built and plans are progressing well with reinstating the line to Tavistock,every rail reopening seems to be a roaring success
I’d love to see it’s return and hopefully it would spur a boom in island railway construction but I hightly doubt it. Question tho, in the video you state that the government is in the process or re nationalisation of the railway system? I had no idea, I’ve been saying that should happen for years. Fingers crossed
Hello thank you for your comment. So far the railway have taken over ownership of certain companies such as LNER, Aventis and Transpennine Express etc ... it seems to be the beginning of re-nationalisation though it does depend on what media outlet you go to sometimes. Only time will tell hopefully. Thank you for your comment 🙂👍
Part of the Waverley route, now known as the Borders railway, was rebuilt for about £350 million. If Ventnor becomes close to being cut-off completely, I foresee absolutely no problem for central govt (taxpayers!) money being used on an emergency basis to rebuild where necessary, including compulsory purchase, for less than this. By HS2 standards, this is a drop in the ocean.
Naysayers said the Waverly line would be an expensive failure yet in its first year passengers numbers exceeded expectations and continue to grow. It has to be said it does run to Edinbugh. But the towns along its route are not huge. Although at the top of the town the old ventnor station is surrounded by a good number of houses. Before being sold off after closure its little used goods sidings would have made an excellent park and ride esp. for people down the bottom. of town and further along. With the increasing road problems it does need serious consideration. As pointed out huge sums have been spent on what wil only be short term solutions to the roads. Add in the huge amounts spent (wasted)on so called consultants who came up with impractical and expensive options to restore the undercliff road. All rejected by the council. Far better use of taxpayers money to use on a project ie restoring the railway that would provide a long lasting transport link
I think the whole system should be reinstated as a Light Railway.
It would be nice that's for sure. Perhaps bit by bit, though the Ventnor Line does need to be the focus at the point in time due to the situation we find ourselves in. Certainly a Tram network for the island would eleviate congestion somewhat. Thank you for your comment 🙂👍
Very interesting, and you make an excellent case here. However, I fear that nationalisation will make this economically impossible. When you nationalise anything the sole funder becomes becomes the taxpayer. You can no longer raise private capital. Under the 1940s nationalisation, railways always played the role of the poor relation to the National Health Service. The public would rather pay for the latter. Politicians baulked at increasing taxes beyond a certain level, because they feared losing their jobs at the next General Election. So, the government started shutting down railway lines from virtually day one. A numbervactually closed under Attlee. This continued throughout the Conservative-led Fifties and reached a peak with Beeching in the Sixties. Labour promised to restore the cuts when they came to power, but steamed ahead with the Beeching proposals when they came to power in 1964. Sadly, in light of past events I believe that your excellent scheme will not happen without some degree of private investment, and that cannot happen under nationalisation. I hope I am proved wrong.
Great video. Transport on the island is really very poor - I've long thought reinstating the line to ventor seems a relatively 'easy' win...
Interesting thoughts - As a constant visitor to the Island for many many years - lately to Wroxhall area,it sad to see the erosion of cliff paths and roads - maybe alternative routes and types of transport need to be looked at - I know it won’t stop the land movement issues but would it help ? - great video 👍
Yes. It is a serious issue which is in need of more than a temporary fix. It is a shame to see the erosion of the land on the coast, but mother nature is boss as we all know 🙂. Thank you for watching 👍
Will need a cable-car to take foot passengers down to High Street level. Remember climbing up to the station after watching Ventnor carnival each year to travel back to Ryde.
ventnor is a great town loved it there me and it would benefit from a new rail link. it can only be a good investment and good for the town and its people and turists, a money making program were all benefit.
Absolutely agree, Ventnor is a wonderful place and it would be gutting to see it go down the pan because of lack of transport links. Thank you for your comment 🙂👍
Last time I looked the tunnel and tracked was still there, a lot of scrap cars. May have all changed now.
The train service would have to be sustainable throughout the year and not just rely on summer traffic. Realistically, would a train service worth running in the winter months for a handful of people? Additionally, you would need a funicular form of service with stations in town and on the front. Indeed history tells us that the hill up to the station and a drop in passenger numbers, as a consequence of the closure of the TB hospital, as well as people going abroad for their holidays were always going to make the line from Shanklin to Ventnor unviable in the long run.
I completely understand your view, and the railway footfall is an ongoing concern. The point of this video though (I guess) is more to try and find a solution to the problem of the eroding roads as it has become clear recently how close we are to loosing these vital connections. Not to far away in the future we may have no choice but to find an alternative, but is there a better alternative than the railway is what I'm asking? Thank you so much for your comment and view on the subject 😊 all the best 👍
I stayed in Ventnor last year. It doesn't need a railway. It needs things to do and places to eat and drink. It's practically dead at the moment, just like Shanklin, which already has a railway.
Hi Andrew thanks for your comment! I agree the town is dead, therefor we need more footfall to the town. Glad you got to visit Ventnor last year, it is a beautiful place. I would like to continue to visit it aswell but that soon may be very difficult if there are no transport connections. Leeson Road is now closed and the Wroxall road is showing signs of moving. Both need respite from the amount of traffic they have to cope with (especially as we have summer on the way) so what is the answer? A railway perhaps using the original infrastructure? Or maybe something else 🙌. Either way, I'm hoping we find the solution to the issue and I thank you once again for your comment 🙂. All the best 👍
@@WightWanderer I didn't know about the new landslide. They should figure out a way of making it into a tourist attraction, as well as improving the road through Wroxall.
It's really sad for the UK, how poorer countries are regularly building new railways from scratch, especially in urban areas, yet we struggle to reopen a railway on an existing trackbed with not much in the way.
Just in the last 15 years, Sevilla, Malaga, Bilbao, Barcelona, Valencia and other Spanish cities have opened new underground lines and they've also built almost 4000km of nationwide high speed rail compared to the 110km HS1 and 230km HS2. Why dont we just outsource our transport planning to a country that's good at it?
The train has always been the future, the car well say no more.
Not a single holiday resort has been created,thrived or improved by cars,if anything it makes them worse as it causes congestion,accidents,noise pollution etc,not to mention frequent road rage incidents in these places
It's so terrible what Beeching, Marples and the politicians of the day did. So easy to rip up the railways, and so costly and time consuming to rebuild them, if not impossible. Sadly, and I say this as a railway lover who loathes what Beeching did, I do not think that this railway will be restored - like virtually every other that was closed under his axe. Today's bureaucracy is ridiculous and even if it would be a great thing for the town (or any town), those in charge will probably just repeat what was said in the sixties: "buses are much cheaper and run on existing roads". When the Victorians built these railways labour was cheap and plentiful, planning permission and health and safety certainly not what it is today. To restore a line would be so labour intensive, require a lot paperwork and preparation, and be so incredibly costly to put it back - they won't do that for a town of 6,000 people. I doubt they'd even do it for a town of 60,000 people. And there will always be someone who is against it and will say the money will be better off spent elsewhere.
Vennicular railway up and over the chalk hill. Which would become a fantastic sightseeing destination
And not then needing to use the old tunnel in the first place. If the geological constraints where also right got the town in the long run.
The passenger census for travel figures was taken on Christmas Day! Scandalous cutting off of a lifeline, replaced by shockingly expensive and unreliable buses.
Ventnor is very charming coastal town and it was a huge shame that the railway line was closed south of Shanklin. Could the cost of rebuilding and re-opening the link be justified? Somehow I doubt it.
Hi, thanks for commenting. I think it depends on how much the costs stack up compared to the amount it would cost to repair or reroute Leeson road. Also as an investment in the future, with trains being more economical and efficient to run.
It has also the potential to be backed by the government's 'Restore Your Railway' fund which has recently reopened the Okehampton to Exeter line, in which case the council wouldnt have to pay. Either way a solution is needed. whether it is a railway? Or maybe something else. Sorry for the lengthy reply 🤣 thanks for commenting again and all the best 🙂👍
@@WightWandererOkehampton-Exeter has been a massive success,they’re even building another station
I used to visit the island but took my car as after the 1st visit bus services were terrible...I don't see folks giving up their cars either residents or tourists?
Hello David thank you for your comment! Yes unfortunately the roads don't hold up too well will the number of cars on them. Leeson road for one, which as the main road from Ventnor to Shanklin is now completely closed. I think the point of this video is to try and find an alternative (whatever that may be) to the roads which are crumbling quick. Very soon vehicle access may not be possible, or atleast vastly reduced (given that we now only have half the main roads into Ventnor as we did 11 years ago). Anyway, thank you again for commenting and all the best 🙂👍
A new level crossing would not be permitted today. A bridge or tunnel, or the closure of the road, would be required.
Who would pay for it though, the council won't, it would have to come from the government, possibly as part of some transport deal for the Island, that would see, a unified public transport system, with the busses and trains part of a common ownership, Re instating the railway will not be cheap, you can bet someone will want to tarmac over the tunnel floor and have a toll road through it, but having the railway back, with a guarenteed connection to the mainland, has to be the obvious answer,
You are right, the government though does have a Restore Your Railway scheme which is ongoing and the line could qualify for a programme.
Thank you for your comment 🙂👍
Ventor can’t have a rail line because it sits on the toe of an active landslide which can give way at any time.
Hi Thanks for your comment. The original line ran through St boniface and terminated North of the town. As the terminus was situated in a chalk quarry and the tunnel was bored through the chalk of the Down itself, there is no risk of slips on the site, which is where the new station would be proposed. The gault clay or 'blue slipper' (which is responsible for the slips) is situated between the Chalk of St boniface and the coast.
Therefor the original railway route is infact the only way in and out of Ventnor which is not subject to landslip.
Sorry for the long winded reply, all the best 😊👍
Its a shame, nothing will happen. It will just be Patched, a Temp solution will be put in place.. There are too many people on the Island who are stuck in the past and just do not want change or anything upgraded......
I do agree to some extent. There does come a time though when the obvious can not be ignored and hopefully we can start to plan ahead more in the future, here's hoping 😊 thank you so much for your comment 👍
It would have been nice to include a look at Ventnor West too and at least eliminate it 😁
@@WightWanderer Spaeking to some people from Ventnor, they are happy what as happened, as they have put it, "It is alot Quiter now, witout all that traffic and Hopfully, it will also stop the Overlanders coming here causing trouble"
Overlander's bring money to the town so you cannot survive without them! Can you imagine what it would do to property prices and shops should the overlander's not come? where would the regeneration monies come from?
@@tracieoliver2307 Thats the trouble, alot of Islanders, dont understand that the Visitors bring in the money. They feel they just invading the Island.
Who put that shed in the way?
I am a railway enthusiast and I have been to Ventnor by steam train and I would love the island to become a transport paradise where only the residents have a car and visitors buy a ticket. In Perth Australia £5 buys up to two hours travel anywhere on the system, airport to Fremantle as an example. However being a little bit more real may I suggest as there is some sound chalk let's just bore a nice road tunnel through that chalk. The victorian,s invested now it is our turn. There must be a fair few boring machines needing a second life.
Ventnor does need an alternative to the crumbling road network but I cannot see the railway coming back as the cost would outweigh the benefits. How many people would realistically use the line when they then have to catch onward connections down to the town or, most likely will want to park by the station on narrow roads or the confines of the industrial estate. Unless you move all the businesses out to make a car park and bus turning area which goes against the idea the railway will be generating jobs in the town.
Wonderful to hear your opinion on the subject! Yes I do agree there are many factors in reinstating the line. I think the purpose of this video is more to raise the issue and try and find a solution to the ongoing erosion of the roads and how long a tempary fix can be put in place until an alternative is needed. Thank you for your comment, it's much appreciated 🙂👍
What about the other station in Ventnor????
It was converted to a house some years ago (Ventnor West station IIRC)
Hey ease up with the logic ! Come on this wont make anyone rich, or further the career of any politicians so I can't see it happening, it would be fantastic to see this open again and after all if hs2 can be done then this shouldn't be much of a problem but realistically the most your ever going to get would probably be some sort of half arsed bus lane like Gosport ended up with. Cool vid thanks for dropping it on the tube.
Hello sorry for the late reply! Must say I did giggle at this comment. Absolutely agree, we'll have to see what the future brings and whether a change of government will affect the cause at all. Thanks for your comment and kind words 😊👍
Very well considered and poignant vid Jack. Here's hoping for some common sense solutions from the powers that be.
Thank you! Fingers crossed 😊👍
They had two railway stations should never have been closed
A poor documentary. More time is taken up apologising for the fact that it was made than to get down to the issue.
You could condense this down to five minutes, with more impact.
There is always some bombastic knob end that will say "on no it can't be done" or some over zealous twat sitting in an office expecting a brown envelope full of large domination bank notes before a decision can be made. Here in new Zealand it's some old geezer. A kumatua with a carved stick wailing some kind of prayer to some stone age god lifting stone age curse and a ",Tapu" lifting ceremony and to appease some kind weirdo creature called a taniwha. But my point is large sums of money change hands. Plus there is a piece of government red tape called the resources management act, which is just more bullshit and extra work for all concerned and just adds to the cost of the project.
The tunnel at Ventor should have been turned into a railway reserve in order to keep it for future reopening of the line . So many abandoned rail routes should have been turned into a railway reserve for future reopening instead of other uses and incroachment of other industries cycle ways or turned into roads. As we are reminded" once it's gone it ain't coming back,"
My GCSE Geography project was on this topic, specifically the feasibility of reinstating the Ventnor Rail link... Nothing much has changed in 30 years it seems.
The year is 1963. You could then see a little boy alighting the train from Ryde, together with his family of course, and walking the steep hills of Ventnor to stay in the vegetarian hotel. I have so many memories of this wonderful town, including all 10 of us piling into our mate's Triumph Herald and driving up the steep roads. Also climbing St. Boniface Down with my Dad, and swimming in the sea at the sandy beach. To think the railway now stops at Shanklin! Restore! Restore!