Why Linus is Pissed - OpenGL vs. Direct X
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2012
- At a recent Linux Aalto University talk Linus Torvalds, on camera, dropped an f-bomb and flipped NVidia the bird. You can see that here along with my opinion of.. || Join the chat: bit.ly/nixgoogleplus || of Why Linus is dissatisfied with NVidia's Linux support, the state of gaming on Linux, and what linux drivers and hardware has to do with it.
What you can use to help your game in Linux
Desura: www.desura.com/
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On live: www.onlive.com/
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Kick starter: www.kickstarter.com/discover/c...
List of Current Programs using OpenGL:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...
Linus video clip used:
"Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds, hosted by Aalto Center for Entrepreneurship (ACE) in Otaniemi on June 14, 2012. Linus was interviewed by Will Cardwell and followed with a Q&A session with the audience. " Fight for the users in our Discord: discordapp.com/invite/CKYwgxA - Věda a technologie
![Aalto Talk with Linus Torvalds [Full-length]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MShbP3OpASA/mqdefault.jpg)
erm. neither OpenGL nor DX are engines. they are an API to accees the graphics hardware
agree
+Marc Tißler seconded
+Marc Tißler A game engine is a type of API last time I checked...So she's correct.
Yes kind of. More like a framework that wraps around a LOW LEVEL API like DX / OpenGL / Mantel.
An engine provides ypu with everything you need to create a full game, asset creation / managing, sound engineering, tools to controll the entity behaviour and so on. DX / OGL are just standardized method calls to access the graphics hardware without knowing what kind of graphicscard is you have.
+Marc Tißler Don't play a grammar nazi, dude... Engine is not strictly defined; she was using that term to make it easily understandable to an average viewer.
I clicked the video because i thought it was LinusTechTips. Lol liked
Houndz same here lol
Eric Morales you preffer the right one too ?
+Houndz That Linus guy is too loud and frantic in his delivery, his tone of speaking drives me nuts.
Jeff M Completely undestandable. I think he was hiperactive as a child.
+Houndz Ummm, Linus did give a really handy tech' tip... F**k nVIDIA .!.
i dont know why couldn't focus in what she talking about
+blake lionel K thought it was only me.
+CommandrX Markipliers drama video had more structure than this shit.
She has an unbelievably high level of sex appeal. It is distracting. :)
I bet she uses spaces....
This is off topic but I once bought a Dell computer and the motherboard failed after around five years so I had to order another one. As I was chatting to the Dell telesales guy I asked him if the Dell call centre (center in America) used Dell computers? He laughed and admitted they didn't :))
Pretty girl talking about techs and linux...
my dream girl...
instant subscribe
simp
I just completely switched over to linux and wiped windows, with steam out now for linux and wines newest updates making it able to run almost any windows software, there really no need for me to have windows
"almost any windows software"
You need to take a better look at the WINE software list, because as of right now, there is only about a 10% chance your favorite Windows program is actually going to work.
its worked for about 70% of programs ive tried
GamingTB
Office doesn't work, Visual Studio doesn't work, Avid doesn't work, Adobe CS 6 doesn't work, Battlefield 4 doesn't work, Titanfall doesn't work.
Adobe does, and so does BF4 and titanfal with PlayOnLinux. And the others have linux alternatives
GamingTB
Adobe CS 6 has a garbage rating. Battlefield and Titanfall are not availble on PlayonLinux, I have the client open right now.
And the open source alternatives are not as fast, stable, or feature-packed as the paid option, which I get for free.
Who else thought she was talking about LinusTechTips?
+UnWorld I did....
+UnWorld - ah, you mean the gay guy
drout0 You mean the one who is married to a woman and has a family? Yeah I'm talking about that gay guy.
ok, so we're indeed talking about the same gay guy. time to broaden some people's view of the world as it is: www.lifedaily.com/19-famous-gay-men-who-married-women
drout0 Thanks for eh "broadening" my view. You have bestowed such amazing enlightenment upon me.
I already knew many ppl have difficulties coming out about their asexuality. Pretty sure Linus Sebastian isn't one of them. Also getting a bit of a homophobic vibe from you :D
I am a game developer but i dont work with an engine. I use 5 libraries to make my games and at the same time to make my own game engine (reusing functions for the win;^)). Those libraries are:
*OPENGL( for 2 reasons: Linux support and the fact that i cant be arsed to learn directx. Opengls syntax is at home with me because its very simmilar to c code and ive started out with pure c )
*SDL ( simple direct media layer. I use it to: create a window+rendering context, getting keystroke, handling mouse, handling controllers, drawing fonts. This is also the library that valve uses to work with opengl )
*SOIL(used to load textures. I am currently working on replacing this with SDL)
*GLM(library containing a bunch of structures and functions that make it easier to do maths. Stuff like matrices and vectors are included. Some functions can save you alot of time like the matrix generation functions for perspective, however you still need to do things yourself (reason why im using it is because i couldnt be arsed to make those structures myself. Might redo my things without it someday))
*assimp(pretty cool library used to import 3D models and scenes from ALOT of formats.)
All i can say is that i cant recommend you opengl more. If you know your way around it there are no limits of what you can do. Hell if you want you can render 1000000 player models in the same shot as long as you know how to reuse the same data in the gpu.
DirectX is not Engine. It's Game Programming API.
***** goooooood for you. you pretend to know c++.
Why would I pretend to know C++.
***** when you know a language, you shut up about it and program. not rub that you know it on everyone's face.
What's wrong with you? See you got some "problems".
+gogleg4 Lol idiot. You had nothing to say about his very valid point out. Obvious troll.
Aw that gap. Yum.
shit this is been 9 years and youtube just brought me here what a coincidence
Commenting in January 2020, Steam, Vulkan and graphics card drivers have progressed tremendously. Gaming in Linux is now a dream come true
It's better but still not up there
at last a woman talking about games and technology
***** What angle???? She's literally a girl wearing a shirt. Like women on the internet should not have to wear hoodies to cover everything up. The angle literally is focused on her, as a human, sure, it's a tad low, that's not an angle issue, that's a height issue. She's a girl who actually knows what she's talking about, most of this can be listened to as a podcast. If you don't like what you see, don't look!
***** I'm being genuine and serious. She actually know what she's talking about AND likes Linux. Hell, that's enough to get me to listen, I listened to this while playing GTAV on low volume. Using Windows, but Linux is great, I've dual booted in the past with Linux and I love it, but as the main topic of this video, not enough support.
***** someone with a filthy brain has no right to comment on some video which is meant for technology..Go , find some other non-tech video and comment there in your way..ill-headed !!!
***** Was your language talking about the tits and all good here?
***** I don't fuckin' care about your words !!!
I'm in love
One thing that I think could help games on GNU/Linux is not only being able to study the code within the games themselves (to learn how to design/implement one properly), but to see how the 'engines' that power them are also designed/implemented so that you can learn how to do it. If we can't learn how to do it, we won't really "get there"..
The only think surprised here is that you actually had footage of city of hero's.
OpenGL drivers suck on Windows... that why you don't use it.
Many Netbooks don't even support shaders via OpenGL but do via Direct3D.
Also you should be comparing Direct3D vs OpenGL NOT DirectX as directX is a big tool chain that has much more then just 3D support.
You are totally right! Thumbs up:)
Larioteo "GLEW" Is not going to add features to OpenGL that don't exist in the driver. For many Netbooks, the last driver update for Windows was in 2009. Shader extensions are not just going to magically load.
Larioteo Many Netbooks don't have newer drivers... last update on Windows 7 with the Intel drivers for the netbook I have was 2009.
GLEW would have to be running is software emulation to run OpenGL4.3 on that old thing. Thats a horrible idea.
You need to paste a link to some code in pastebin or something because I have no idea what you are talking about...
netbooks? really? netbooks sucked because of intel gma, intel gma couldn't even run 10 years old games '--'
zezba9000 now with intel hd family the history changed, they have updated opengl and directx drivers (actually even intel gma sucked with dx because there were process that were emulated by processor...)
Ooh, lady, you got some impressive hardware there.
hahahaahhahahahahahaha it whould be nice to put USB in that hardware :))))
...
nice to know, what things have you alreaddy developped/are developing?
hey im new to ubuntu, is there anyway to put icon links in the very top bar? where the time and internet connection is? i find that is a waste of a bar, or atleast make chrome the complete full screen with that bar behind?
DirectX actually has less features than OpenGL
Direct3D (the graphical part of DirectX) is also slower than opengl
blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/
www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows
TheMetaPhaze blablabla ... it makes 10 years we hear the same song ..."wait the next version , opengl will be better and faster " . The truth is that opengl suck so much .. Even the debugging tools on OpenGl are outdated and make crash the apps..
Some people tell that companies don t want opengl because of money : of course ! every company doesn t want to give abad image of their products because they use a crappy opengl .
That s why even for webgl , the companies use some wrappers to translate opengl calls and call in fact direct3d
miranda umino you need to study more.
if you do know something that you are hinting that you know, there is a reason it's called OpenGL
Stop your whining and go fix the problems.
BlaBlaBla to you too, you want to sound like you are informed and know what the issues are... if you do, go do the world a favor and fix the problems you see, write the code and help us all out.
Yeah, the OpenGL world has it's issues, but at least the opengl team (even through changing so many hands in the past 10 years) remains open and tells the truth, meanwhile Microsoft and their direct 3d team sell you changes in direct3d that don't exist (in other words they straight up lie to you) and you still defend them.
miranda umino Well, Im using OpenGL for a personal game project, and the debugging tools are excellent. The design of the OpenGL API doesn't actually stand in the way of better performance. I'm not intending to get into a flame war, but my opinion would be that the power performance is simply less aggressive vendor optimisation due to lesser demand.
Just a question and by no means anyone take offense to this but why linux? I do not see what is so amazing about it. Can someone tell me why it is better than windows? (Other than it is free)
Isn't linux known to be unstable? If not it is my ignorance about linux.
On the contrary! Linux powers the vast majority of web servers over the world, some of them are the busiest
Yeah I never even thought of that writing my last comment. Excuse me for my ignorance.
Don't listen to linux fan boys. Yes, linux can be better if you are on to some specific task, but that's pretty much where its pros end. Customization is better but other than that, Windows is superior in every way for normal consumers.
Sangmin Lee Dude, im not a linux fanboy, I fully agree that it has its kinks and faults (just as any other os has). I did my best to search online for unbiased data and I'm a game developer for windows, mac, and linux. I've had less problems with linux in the past then either windows or mac (whether it be while I'm developing software or performing other productive tasks). With windows ive had problems with my computer's RAM usage (Ive found that even windows explorer has some memory leaks), viruses, etc. (Macs are give or take since its pretty much UNIX with a blanket ontop)
Nixie Pixie, in your opinion which internet browser is better? internet explorer or opera?
Nixie, I know you don't
Who is this girl? and how can I get her number? Also if shes married or in a relationship sorry bout dat.
Pervert
nope.avi
Abdullah Ijaz OMG HE IS SUCH A PERVERT, HE ASKED FOR HER NUMBER!!!!!!
WHAT A CREEP!!!11!oneone!!!!!1!!?
Ok OK I found her number and everything!!
Her number is 123GETLOST her name is "NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS" she lives on 1234 N.O.Y.D.B "None Of Your Damn Business"
Abdullah Ijaz
Whoa bruh! Be careful with those killer punchlines!!
You could seriously hurt someone with those!
You should just disable youtube comments.
In 2020, you can play 70% of Steam games with an open source compatibility layer known as protondb which has a fork known as ProtonGE which is even nicer. Something known as Lutris lets you play games taking advantage dxvk, wine, proton, and scripts.
Hardware problems - so true! Ubuntu 12.04 - no adequate video drivers for AMD APU's. Fedora, OpenSUSE, Debian , you name it - no RT3290 wireless card support. Current Arch Linux (2016.03.01) - no way to get Bluetooth on RT3290... What a pain in the butt.
I can't take anything she says seriously because of… _them._
i know the feels, i hear _them_ too :/
Yeah I was seriously distracted by those fun bags.
man,you are not alone :)
I'm here for the boobies
Phew... I wasn't sure if I should shout out loud here, but yes: My look always kept going south here^^
What She talking about? I can't look right in her eyes while she on screen, and didn't understand anything she talking... :(
Eyes?
I was expecting to hear more about why Linus showed the middle finger on Nvidia, why OpenGL vs DirectX, but ended up in just references on how great Steam, or Humble Bundle and maybe how greater open source than proprietary and stuff, but not the main story in detail. I don' t think it was just because I was looking into her eyes :)
Dude, i literally laughed out loud at your name: NIKOLAY BOGOSLAVETS. hahahahaha
J Williams what's fun with it?
Optimus6128 I think she got the message across very well.
Linus was pissed because companies like Nvidia who do work on Linux don't support it as well as other platforms they support like Windows and Mac (Android doesn't count for Linux).
They directly contribute to Linux having smaller market share (I don't believe Linus necessarily cares about this, though, but bigger market share can result in more Linux and open source development, anyway) since users (including system developers) don't want to fiddle just to get something to work properly when it should work out-of-the-box (from the user's perspective; Linus with GNOME 3 in the past comes to mind) as well as the other platforms that company supports, especially when the company has enough resources to make that happen.
It also doesn't help that Nvidia just uses Linux and doesn't really further its development (there was some article on Phoronix...), though lately they are helping the Nouveau project to deliver a better out-of-the-box experience, so that's something...
All this also has direct implications for gaming on Linux. Improving the Linux gaming scene improves Linux and its ecosystem as well, which should make Linus happy. Again, Android doesn't count.
As someone who has been using Unbuntu for 3yrs now, alot of the problems spoken about in this video have been resolved in Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr). This is not for the average computer user but it has made me learn alot of things I would have never looked into with windows and for that I am grateful.......NIXIE, THANKS FOR ALL THE VIDS THEY HAVE TAUGHT ME SO MUCH
DirectX is not an engine, it is a protocol for communicating with the GPU. You still have to write your own 3D Engine. DirectX and OpenGL help you a lot with the problems you face though.
Even PS4 supports DX11 now. Linux don't have any slightest chance of getting main titles.
Mantle is OpenGL based...
GrippenTech who cares, it is not on consoles and it is AMD-only...
Well its actually Open Source... so NVidia could open it if they took their head out of their ass. Why do you think Shadowplay has no OpenGL support? Its because they want to destroy it.
GrippenTech I don't see the point in wasting so much resources and efforts. You can use DX11-alike API everywhere. It is stable, it is fast. It won't go anywhere. It doesn't support Linux, but who cares about it?
I do, I think the world needs another API that is as universal as possible.
I'm sorry, Linux could be a great operating system kernel, but the way it works is just a pain in the ass. I tried ubuntu because I got tired of Windows for a while and wanted something better, but sadly, ubuntu was just a piece of garbage! I was suprised to find that Windows was far easier to use, had better support for hardware drivers, and I liked developing on Windows because I don't have to fuck with the X window system and I can use Visual Studio. Now, Windows has it's own problems and I personally think Microsoft needs to pretty much start from scratch and rewrite the kernel and redesign the whole OS using what they know now, especially with ease of development by making APIs easy to use and logically laid out. But really, neither OS is all that great in doing everything right, but there aren't really any other choices because nobody has made any other Operating System...
From when i was a kid i started using windows and linux in two differenti computers and i think that you think windows is better because you had habituated to windows, there are a lot of softwares Luke visual studio Like mono,
Writing from a phone is so much bad.... Fuck corrector
Nejix No, I tried my best to not be biased because of Windows. That's why I wanted to try Linux anyways, because Windows was pissing me off a little, but Linux pissed me off even more, which I thought was impossible. I am very open to the way Linux works, and most of it is a very good idea. Such as using a repository to get programs and libraries, and it automatically gets dependencies and downloads updates. But, there are HUGE flaws, for example: there is no way to restore a previous version of software, or updates to the OS. So, if an updates breaks your OS, you're pretty much screwed, you need to reinstall. On Windows, you can just use system recovery.
Linux Mint 17.1 I believe. And that's the point. You have to have "an afternoon of Googling and copying / typing commands" whereas, in Windows, you just uninstall the update, or go to system recovery. Also, I don't know if Linux has it's own version of Safe Mode, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe linux (kernel) is good, but the OSes that have been made so far, are very very lacking in my opinion.
In windows too you have to spend one afternoon googling how to resolve problems, (did just 2 days ago for a compromitted admin user, and i had to "hack" windows to get it back.)
On Windows OpenGL functionality that was added above version 1.1 are only accessible using extensions and those extensions are contained in the GL ICD aka "the OpenGL driver".
OpenGL stands for Open-Graphics-Library. DirectX is a multimedia library (sound, midi, graphics), it unified and somewhat replaced the old Win32 library on Windows 98 and evolved from there. The graphics engine developers use the OpenGL or Direct3D APIs to render the visuals for the game.
The device drivers have to implement/translate the OpenGL and Direct3D functions into firmware that their graphics hardware architecture can run. That's hard enough to do on a stable platform like Windows, for a complex hardware component like a graphics card or ten, for 2-3 GPU architectures. High quality drivers for all that, and on all software platforms, costs a whole lot of money and, even then, it's really an unreasonable expectation.
With both the APIs and the GPU architectures continuously evolving, I'm amazed that most graphics cards do work on Linux.
Hum, interesting that this video popped up as recommended given its age and that I've never seen any of your videos before. =)
Anyway, I think the recent youtube video recommendation changes has probably been a good thing overall.
But I miss the notifications for comments made to my comments...
What a great post! You touched most of the aspects quite delicately. I love the beauty in which you presented the nuance topic of Gaming in Linux. Keep it coming Nixie!
Really what Linus was complaining about was Nvidia's support for kernel development, which really has nothing to do with OpenGL vs. Direct X. It's more about the lack of support for Nvidia technologies like Optimus, or anything else that Nvidia doesn't feel like supporting with their proprietary drivers. Nvidia was pretty much a complete stranger to actually submitting any code to the kernel, even basic support code that would make their binary drivers work better or support more of their hardware.
As to the issue of OpenGL vs. Direct 3D (part of Direct X): This is beginning to sort itself out because Microsoft is no longer such a completely dominant platform for gaming. Only Windows and XBox support Direct 3D. Most developers don't want to limit themselves to those platforms when OpenGL allows them to target also OS X, Linux, and especially Android and iOS, along with the other consoles from Nintendo and Sony. Direct X used to get more developer love because it was the standard on the most popular development platform. Now OpenGL development has accelerated again because of its cross platform nature.
"Constant changes" doesn't break compatibility as often as you suggest, and they are done for some reason. I'd call them "constant improvements".
When one needs a binary that will be compatible with everything for a long time, he can statically link it.
Problems with compatibility occurs with Windows as well. Once I wanted to run Gothic I on Win7 x64. I couldn't start it, but I found a patch that fixed it. I checked how does it work and... it turned out to be Wine-based.
No, you can program in C++ using various libraries to be portable. In some cases libraries can be used to program all the game logic, control, windowing, devices and so on. Other times you might need to pull a native library, and program a little bit for each different OS. Wherever you come across that problem though, chances are there is a way to make it portable.
hey i been tying to play age of empires 2 online but wine keeps giving me a error is there anyway to even play it ?
What do you think of the AMD Mantle api?
I suppose how I wrote that was a bit misleading but I could not edit it after I posted.
That being said, the DirectX API is the API. DirectX itself could be considered a driver in the lose sense of the word which, in turn, is part of the device's firmware. Many programming libraries use the word "driver" when refering to DirectX/OpenGL.
So which one should I go for....???
The left one or the right one?
Biggest title of 2014 going to Linux was - in my opinion - WarThunder, pretty big and impressive game.
In fact I have been exceptionally satisfied by my distro's hardware support, given that my scanner worked out of the box even thought it is quite an old model.
I've got Onlive to work with Wine (and maybe PlayOnLinux) really well on Ubuntu. It didn't have controller support, but the keyboard and mouse worked perfectly.
How do i use my GTX 1050 on Linux Mint 18.1 or Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS ?
Nixie, what's new with Shadowrun Returns?
Wait.. does onlive have multiplayer running thru an external server does this improve lag or make it worse?
One thing is wrong about that one ... there are extensions for OpenGL, called OGL Extensions (www.opengl.org/documentation/extensions/) ;-).
For the core features, they are open source in linux. If something is buggy, you fix it, since you can get a full stacktrace enabling/installing debug libraries for that component. It's often faster than consulting the support where you often wait half a year for a fix and invest a lot of time to backtrace native things where the support has to look at it again. Not my opinion, but of a game developer working for a pretty tall game development company.
One of the more big problems in linux was and is: they're not up to the latest OGL standard, especially in mesa. That gets some drive now though due to commercial companies and driver vendors more and more looking into it.
I agree totally, but for the average new-linux tinkerer - fixing a opengl driver bug is not even something they would attempt.
Not to mention, they most likely don't even understand the OpenGL internals.
Georg Grabler Of course you can do it, if you've invested ~500 hours learning driver-archictecture, GPU-architecture, Linux-development, C programming, etc.
I absolutely agree, the difference is - have you ever tried to get support on malefunction of DX? I get more serious community support on my dumps than I do on asking the Microsoft Support. Though, the problem in most cases is either driver or mesa related in Linux, which got fixed, in Windows I end up in workarounds, and in a depth I don't understand the driver/gpu architecture that well either, it's not my field of interest. For commercial companies... the people understand the stacks or they have people who do, they hire the best for that. They know how to develop in C, they have more knowledge within the company and even single people than I'll ever get, and a lot of smarter people who understand the traces I get. I see myself as a "user" providing feedback. And I always felt welcome.
But I agree, the time to backtrace to the exact problem is not to underestimate. I mostly do it in my spare time, and a lot of it went into it.
Let's take a step back for a moment, and look at Mac OSX - yes, that evil thing.
I disagree with a lot of apples workings, but OSX is essentially the same as Linux - however what it has, and windows has, is serious standards.
You don't need to think about what distro is being used, or if the kernel has the right module.
All the software components of an OSX system are stable and standard - this would allow developers to do great things, if it wasn't for apple-developer being rubbish.
Microsoft isn't Linux, however a program compiled for Windows-32 will work (in most cases) in windows 95 and above.
Linux wins developers, servers, and tech-heads by being so open and modular - but that's not what users want, users want to press the on button and, as most apple fans would say, "It just works"
John Bargman that reasoning was true in the past, but for 99 % of the users it isn't true any longer.
I am leaning about Linux distros and while I am checking out Ubuntu for desktop usage and then Kali Linux because I am going in to Information Security, what distros do you recommend I should I check out? (it does not matter what they are used for) I am not picky about the distro I use, I just like tools in my tool belt.
Learn one distro you like in depth...that is my opinion,then you can start distro hopping.
Onaj Tamo I understand that they all have different stuff inside them, but if I learn the terminal functions (from what I learned is similar to Windows command line) in one distro do they translate to the other distros?
Viewtiful Joe
yes, the terminal functions the same in all Debian distros, things change however when it comes to Red Hat, Fedora, CentOS and so on, but not that much. on a side note, i prefer Mint over Ubuntu, i started with Ubuntu and for me it's way slower than Mint. Mint is simpler, faster, but unfortunetly lacks in design, but that is something you can customize.
Dima Shur That is good to hear, where are sites that you would recommend me to check out as regards to Linux and Unix topics in general (security, distro information and how to get the most out their use)
Thanks, I'll see about that if and when I install Linux again. I thank you for your help. Though, I still would love a native port. :)
The thing is, linux is really convoluted. you try and install a game that's not in the repositories, you have to do dependency hunting, compile stuff yourself, and sometimes even fix code because some function has different parameters in a different version of some kernel module you use. Typically on windows you get all the dependencies with a version that works right along with the game, and in some minor cases you have to install runtime environments / libraries that are used commonly, like directx.
Actually I prefer SDL. It's easy to program with, at least.
Another thing about linux is that hardware manufacturers don't like to give the specs for their hardware. And while stuff like processors and graphics cards kind of work, they lack the drivers necessary to use the full potential, and the companies only program those drivers for windows, leaving the linux community without working printers and scanners.
Thus: Linux for development, working and banking and simple multimedia applications (Music, videos, streams) and use windows for fun and gaming.
Running the exact same game and version on the same pc, has like 1/3 of the framerate on linux, most of it being really unplayable. At the same time, installing those games and getting ready to play takes about 1 minute of a GUI installer on windows, and 10 minutes of console hacking (in the sense of hitting your keyboard, rather than clicking convenient, nicely labeled buttons) on linux.
Also the new interface sucks. Well, I guess the same is true on windows :3
+FalcoGer Hmm, I install games through steam, those games are not in the repository, it installs itself and I play them, such as War Thunder, Civ 5 etc.. Only time i run into an issue if one comes up is using playon linux. This is how I play world of tanks. Go search out Jakejw93 - Linux Gaming. He plays World of Tanks on playon linux, 20 - 30 fps, a way it was never meant to be played and thats pretty dang good for being emulated. That is not ported. If my cpu and V-Card isnt fully supported, then I shouldnt be here huh? I just put a new intel cpu in and even burned it in a week ago. Lack drivers? Not close. This is 2016, not 2010. In 4 years linux and steam has came in leaps and bounds porting games and making them run nicely.
+FalcoGer 2001 called, they said they want you back buddy. This is 2016, today all my games either run on Steam or are easily installed from the repos using a single command including all dependencies. Every game runs at 120 frames per second synced to my 120hz monitor. The only game not on a repo was Minecraft, which I downloaded and installed in 3 minutes. All of my printers work better on my Linux box than on my windows machines, including scanning.
In terms of hardware, I don't have to spend hours searching the net for drivers on a crappy website. Everything works as soon as I plug it in because the kernel has all that the hardware needs. I'm stunned at how much less time I spend playing around with stuff like that these days, it's very different from when I tried Linux in the 2000s.
This video is sort of after-the-fact, since DX is no longer developed by MS, where Khronos is continuing with OGL for the foreseeable future. OGL is becoming more and more an option on major titles, and it even features the newest DX features(DX11, geometry/tesselation, etc) within the latest OGL implementations.
I think you missed out on the comma in the posting above, not that I support what was said, just thought that I would point out that the driver and graphics part were two separate "items" that the commentator was posting about.,, Those darn commas ;|
Yes! You're gonna wanna check out Wine - It's in Ubuntu's software center, and I'm pretty sure it's easily available in Mint/Arch/others. It's not a perfect experience, but it definitely works.
openGL is good, the issue is that some little things that are painful for the developer. Im developing a openGL based game engine that is taking me so long because of that things. But hey, vulkan is there also!
I know this is old, but I'd like to note that every large game engine has support for multiple graphical APIs including, but not limited to OpenGL and Direct3D ( which is the part of DirectX which makes graphics work -- DirectX has more that just that component). Just FYI.
Can someone explain to me how driver issues are hardware issues? Sounds like its a software issue if one OS doesn't have proper drivers but another does
That part of rage was super hard i had almost no ammo left when i got to it
Very true. It has never been an issue. The problem has been that almost no gamestudio felt like supporting both opengl and directx, that directx has had a faster implementation of new hardware features(which there were alot of for a while) and that it was more comfortable to work with for developers(or that more developers were accustomed to it). Many cg programs have always run on opengl.
Funny how NVIDIA used to actually love OpenGL (not saying they don't now), afterallit was the first to do 3D rendering if I remember correctly despite DirectX (or its predecessor) coming out before OpenGL.
Steam coming to Linux is going to be a game changer. It's still in it's infancy but in a year or two I expect a lot more developers to start seeing the value in adding Linux support to their games.
I was getting wifi and gpu driver issues. Both fixed by switching an orther distro.
I had to watch it a second time to get the information. You payed more attention than me the first time
Oh, wow. I'm just past your intro, but SO true!
I have an entire 12.10 partition I can't get at, and it's because of Nvida. I've got a nice 42" TV, and half the time I split screens through HDMI. In Win 7 that's painless, and since -my- favorite game is Flight Simulator X... when I'm not watching TV...
So I go do that on Ubuntu. You have to let ALSA know what you're doing right? Headphones or speakers... But if you forget to switch to a single screen before logging off Ubuntu X can have a cow.
did they i want to convert my asus computer to linux but Im a noob and don't know if i should just stick with windows
I love GameFly. It sucks to finish a game on Fri night because the post office takes Sunday off, but I got the 2 game plan so I always have a disc waiting.
Totally Nix! When I'm no Win 7, I have no qualms about splitting my screen HDMI to my flatscreen TV, bouncing it back and forth or just shutting down my laptop's screen. My remote even pauses videos and jumps it back. But in Linux...
And it's not just Nvidia crashing X... I've had ALSA issues too all because I didn't set everything back just right before rebooting. You end up spending days going "sudo yadda yadda" resetting everything back. I've never had problems with Linux but for that GPU..
0:19 EPIC to such gestures from such a man.
Actually myself had drivers issues too but on windows. In my opinion Linux is now growing as its user friendly-ness is improving. Keep it up Linux!
That's old fashion....We now have SteamOS(Valve's),NLinux(Nvida's)..so I bet within a short amount of time...Things are going to turn out pretty good for Linux and Open Source :D
Pretty much all id titles have been OGL based, that includes the quake series, doom 3/4, rage and so on. Then again, they have been one of the few companies out there that have been making engines as well as games over the years. Their business model seems to have been to make a modular game engine and games demonstrating the features, sell the engine to developers and the games to the public.
DirectX is an collection of APIs, not a driver. Applications interface with the API and drivers interface with the API. It's essentially there so not every single application has to be specifically programmed to work with a certain hardware component or a certain driver for a hardware component.
No, I have a PLaystation Net Yaroze, which uses a version of RedHat and the PS2 DTL-TOOL uses the redhat command line. The DTL-TOOL, Revision 3 uses yellow dog and I think xbmc for the UI.
Holy moly this is eye opening. About to order my System76 laptop too! :D
The best way to get support for AAA games on Linux, is to push for game engines like Unity3d and Epics Unreal Engine 3 to have Linux support. Just having the option available for devs working on these engines, will have a huge positive impact on the number of games developed for the Linux OS.
-Cheers
E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
HELP HELP HELP
Hey Nixie with the exception of a few wifi devices several years ago I have not seen the problems you mention with hardware and drivers and I've been using Linux since 1999. Granted some of this is because I research what is well-supported before I buy hardware but presently, and especially since Windows 7 started dropping support for older hardware, Linux literally supports more hardware and architectures than any other single OpSys. I can't help but wonder why you're having probs.
I was able to play Team Fortress 2, DOTA 2, and Star Conflict, but i am more curious to run other fps games for free... tried Play on Linux but didn;t work out.. error all time..
Just a casual gamer who doesn't delve into the deep end of the system but I heard about OpenGL vs DirectX way back when. Did the two ever existed simultaneously on Windows because I seem to recall it did or was under the impression that it did.
Guess what. It’s 2021. (9 years later) and NVIDIA still doesn’t support Optimus enabled systems on Linux! ‘Proud’ owner of an optimus enabled laptop. Running on integrated graphics
Should I get Linux or windows 7
I'm switching to Linux in the next few weeks. So glad I found this channel, very informative and helpful, thanks Nixie. :)
Valve and Id Software use OGL. I prefer DX, but that's only because it was the first graphics API I picked up. I've resolved to check more into OGL this year, perhaps with OpenTK. The DX documentation is quite confusing, but that's not exclusive to DX - the 'net is also littered with obsolete OGL tutorials for previous versions.
Maybe I'll just wait until the next version appears, then I can start from scratch along with a bunch of new people, as there will likely be plenty of changes..? Indie developers should choose OGL because it's multi-platform: they can create games for multiple devices without having to change much of their code, and that's wonderful.
On the other hand, DX is sleek and smooth and seems so logical and straightforward. lol
You should check: github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL
Valve's Direct3D to OpenGL.
my only issue is advanced directx features such as tessellation and the implementation of such features.
for things such as vertex lighting and anti aliasing, this is a non issue :-) but for things such as tessellation, is it really viable?
now I'm a pc builder and gamer, and I will tell you that each renderer has its ups and downs, but having played the original unreal tournament with a DX11 renderer, even I was shocked by how much it improved the game!
I'm looking forward to play on linux , I just have to wait and see . Thanks for the video :)
I've never had any Nvidia trouble w/ my Geforce GTX 560. Sure I got a tty console when I first booted, but wget the nvidia site and install from console and there you go. I think the trouble is trying to get Nvidia to support new changed, such as Wayland.
I'm just getting started with Linux, I figure if I could operate Dos way back in the day, then I should be able to learn Bash pretty easily, I've heard it's better. Anybody have any tutorials on learning the nitty gritty and squeezing every drop out of linux?
Arch Linux
zezba9000 Yeah right.. Arch.. heh.. they won't tear him a new one..
LemonPieLoL Actually they're pretty helpful, maybe because I don't ask obnoxious questions without looking for an answer first.
Justin Hall
sooo - just the place for someone who says learning bash should be easy and asks for general linux tutorials in an OpenGL / DirectX discussion?
What's wrong with that? Bash IS pretty easy so far. Like I said, I was great with DOS back in the early 90's, and asside from syntax and the ability to form scripts for more complex commands, it's very similar.
I would assume people discussing the lack of Direct X on Linux and Mac would at least know how to use the terminal. Maybe I expected too much from you, or maybe you're just an elitist dick that wants to pretend you never had to learn Bash yourself. Either way, I don't care.
Both AMD & Nvidia need to make the install process simpler for the drivers
I have linux installed on my laptop for a couple months now. Mainly I use it for browsing the web, writing, simple picture editing and watching films. I have never had to troubleshoot anything, it just works. Since changing to Linux on my laptop I have much faster booting times, longer battery time and things almost never crashes. I can now trust my computer.
At the moment I feel I could not completely convert to Linux, I still use Windows. But most tasks I rather use my Linux computer for.
The only problem i have is with nouveau and the gtk3 de's ( my gpu being 750 ti )
1. No, my bootloader did not work. It did not reconize that i have Ubuntu, Mint AND Windows (For all that games than no run good on Linux)
2. After all, all my Hardware worked without any problems, even NVIDIA Optimus worked.
3. OnLive was discontinued
I am running Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon 64bit and have not had any problems yet excrpt for the the fact Realplayer for linux is not a full version of the windows one.
Subscribed :3 I love Linux and don't really like Windows, but end up using it most of the time because most of the time I use a computer I'm playing games ;-; I used to play WoW on Wine using the OpenGL rendering and it worked quite well. Slightly less FPS but shaved at least 100ms of my ping :P But yeah, most games I play now are DirectX sooooo....
One can easily create games with similar visual acuity with OpenGL as with DirectX. It's the developers' effort that matters. Although Mantle's (and maybe DX12) low level support is a different topic altogether. The best thing that Linux has, is that it is able to run in any kind of system (with respect to system requirements at least), and can be customized to a much greater extent by a geeky user, with respect to Windows.
I do agree tho if I could I would switch to linux only but sadly the stuff I need it to run stably...and do it cannot...nor can I modify something as easy as I can with windows sadly I grew up with 95 98 2000 and xp then when vista came looked into linux sense 7 came out I just been using xp/7/rarely linux....
I have a hard time using my favorite linux, Makulu Linux, but Its debian based and apparently it doesn't have AMD support but i can use other linux's, but I have my motherboard having a UEFI and and linux and UEFI don't mix well.