Swa Earth Rod When a TT isn’t a TT System. Workshop Part 2 !!
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Installing an earth rod x2 great fun
Installing armoured cable in the rain
Powering up and testing .
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This video is for entertainment purposes only please do not attempt to copy or recreate this video in any way. It is not a how to.
I laughed about the toffee hammer comments because always had a standing joke with my apprentice from when I first asked him to get the ‘toffee hammer’ out the van to knock some clips in... I thought of that as soon as I saw you banging the rod in! Fair play to you sir for making these informative videos and putting yourself up to the scrutiny of the armchair experts!
Thank you for taking the time to film in-depth and provide all the awesome explanations!
Just finished my apprenticeship in electrical maintenance on machine tools, I always felt I was lacking a bit of experience in this kind of work and watching the videos helps so much! Keep the videos coming!
You should use a SDS drill on hammer setting to drive the earth rods in.
Looks spot on mate. You just knew everyone was going to rid the pixx out of your toffee hammer lol 👍
SDS is the way to go. Saves so much sweat and toil and makes less mess of the top bolt, in fact none!
Literally just watched part 1, refreshed the page and part 2 came up, excellent timing mate 👍
So in the UK, 2 hours of testing for two circuits and 12 pages of paperwork, and 14 stickers. In the USA, ask Bubba; "Did it trip the breaker when you turned it on?" Nope, then load up the truck and off to the next one! 😁😜
It used to be like that in the 80's over here in the UK, but there were so many unqualified people doing electrical work and too many deaths, they decided to introduce all this paperwork and government agency supervision, to weed out the cowboys. It's a pain to go through the testing and paperwork, but it does protect us qualified electricians from being undercut by the bodgers....👍
@@ianjrivers - 'undercutting' is the least of a customer's worries...
10:11. I used to work in an office for several decades. Recently I designed and built my own home workshop (timber construction). I read up the electrical installation requirements for timber buildings and legally wired lighting and power sockets for my own workshop for 230v AC (very straight forward!). I then employed a registered sparkie who checked everything over and connected it to the mains. No problems encountered. Subsequently I also installed a complicated multi-sector burglar alarm.
It just proves office workers can do your type of work -- and enjoy it.
That's just ultra brave of you to be saying stuff like that here. I bet there's a dark sparks squad following you in their black van mate.
It's not the doing the job that's the most difficult. It's the doing the job plus dealing with all kinds of awkward people half of whom are confident they could do a better job than you plus being able to make enough to support your family all year round plus not going mad in the meantime.
And with sparks they also need to feed an army of certificate and regulation fannies that do shot all.
What's your next project mate?
I bet you were absolutely knackered after all that manual labour..never again...
love the way you reach over a nice big heavy rock to pick up little diddy hammer
6 Ohms is good. Saying 'Off of' when you're not a yank, is another matter 😂
One of, if not the most informative electrical installation channel out there. Thank you for taking the time making these..
Good video, but just a few points.
1) There is nothing wrong with exporting a PME earth to a wooden shed in this environment.
2) The Sub main then needs correct selectivity, If you really want to TT the whole system, then you could cover the sub main with a 300mA S type time delayed RCD and then 30mA locally in the shed. If using PME then I would calculate Zs of the cable run at the same time as calculating your sub main volt drop to achieve the correct Zs/disconnection times at the shed DB to avoid an RCD on the sub main altogether. then have your 30mA RCD's locally in the shed DB.
3) Where you have the SWA gland terminated into the bottom of the plastic enclosure in the shed, you are able to touch two different earth potentials (TN and TT) I would terminate the shed end of the SWA with a Nylon/insulated TRS gland and label the plastic enclose "Warning contains two different earthing systems, Risk of Electric Shock" or something similar to cover yourself
Sorry, this is only meant as constructive criticism, not as a put down. I do like your video's, you have some great content. thank you for sharing.
Kind Regards
Gareth
In a TN-S or TNC-S, could you just use a 3 core 10mm (or larger) cable and then the SWA circuit is no different than any other circuit, regardless of what type of building it's going into with regard to extraneous conductive parts? Also, what about a 30ma upfront RCD supplying the SWA cable run?
Marathon! Good work, envious at the workshop/shed the customer is building up!
Yay flexi con 🙌
that hammer came from the toffee counter in woolworths, the heavy lump hammer needs less blows, less damage to threads and the shoulder !
That earth rod looked like a right ballache to do, very nice job. I have the same toffee hammer in my tool bag, it's great for plugs and clips.
My daughter wants her ELC hammer back.
No I got mine before toys r us shut down .
Brilliant comment. Screwfix do a decent fibreglass mallet which I use for earth rods. For larger earth rods you can get an sds drill attachment which is decent too.
Glass hammer could do a better job :)
19:56 I had a little chuckle at the exact same moment.
I've been off the tools for a while now (Desk Jockey). I do like watching these videos and compare in my head how I would have tackled these jobs.(Brings back memories)
I don't miss crawling through loft insulation and coughing for the next few hours.
Most of what you do is of a high standard. And I bet there isn't a spark out there watching these that hasn't smashed an earth rod in with a mash hammer then realise you've mushroomed the top and forgot to put the rod clamp on first. (I know I have). Keep the videos coming.
If you do...just cut abit off and thrm put clamp on..simples
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 I know that! It’s not my first rodeo. But it saves time not having to hacksaw the top off if you put clamp on first.
The bigger hammer 😂👍 they can be hard work to install, well done in getting 2 in
Nice job chris as always. Maybe a bit of 3 core flex to the Photocell but always a pleasure watching your videos.
Tony Young agreed
Not surprised you're shattered after that mate. Decent days work. 👍
Good video mate and nice job.
Just two points of criticism, should they ever decide to board out the ceiling all of your conduit boxes will be in the way, should have dropped that top run of tube by an inch or so.
Second the three core to the photocell - UV ?... I would have gone with black rubber.
Also , singles would have been my choice vs t and e.
Cheers
Singles for conduit defo and just draw them thru
Been watching loads of your videos I'm a absolute newbie and been learning so much from your videos thank you keep them coming
Love the head mount view mate. Also... that bloody hammer, haha!
Fantastic work on both videos 👏🇮🇪😎
Great vid Chris I used to put the clamp on first then bang the crap out of the rod you learn the hard way when you do what you did go to get a hacksaw out the van and and find out you have left it on the other job lol still a great vid again real world shizzle
There is no prohibition on exporting PME provided there is no extraneous metalwork importing earth potential into the outbuilding. Of course an earth rod is always sensible.
Not when it's completely unnecessary and adds cost for the customer, or when you actually get lower reading from the rod.
@@user-od3rl5mc You will never get a lower reading from a rod unless there's something profoundly wrong with the TN-C-S or TN-S earthing.
If in doubt...tt (earth rod it out!) On pme
Those Toffee Hammers really get the job done..... if you have a week to spare! 😉
Loving the Wago’s sir. What a great bit of kit!!!!!
Great Video!
Full of information!
Thanks for taking time to do this Video!!!
Wow solid copper earthing rod, down in this part of the world Galvanized steel is adequate, however the length is one piece and I think is about 2 metres .
Hi Chris
Hope you’ve rung Cadent if you’ve smelt gas in the under cupboard if you smell gas it’s dangerous!! Not to however small the leak is its the build up that causes the bang!!
Great videos. Thanks for taking the time to film 👍🏻
What ruff arse built that!
For the earth rod - get piece of 4x2, drill a hole the same diameter as the top of the rod and sit it on the top, will let you use two hands (with a proper hammer) to hammer it in without mushrooming it over.
Cracking video as always Chris, thank you mate. Can you please educate on how you’d test that earth electrode? Your help is much appreciated! Cheers
I have the same toffee hammer - love mine for most jobs but definitely not for banging an earth rod in! 😂
Jeeeeezus. Good job the pros left some tools lying around for you to use!
In some situations it maybe necessary to put a detached building on its own rod, however there's nothing wrong with exporting the pme system to an out building or a tns system either.
Our nic inspector said this to use last week aswell
@@aharonstubbs4089 said what to you
One of our inspections was on a container were we put a rod in and I asked him about sheds etc and he wasn’t that bothered about those
@@aharonstubbs4089 no that's what my NIC guy said, obviously in your case there is the chance that the whole structure could come live if you lost the neutral, so on a steel building is probably advisable to be on a rod.
Anthony charles sorry mate that’s what I meant if there were exposed/extraneous conducive part export if not there’s no problem in not exporting
Those copper pipe cutters are great for cutting SWA.
Fantastic videos part 1 and part 2.
Well explained and good footage.
Keep it up.
And more of the same..
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Wow - that is a really neat and very slimline light fitting. By comparison, it makes the conduit look very ugly. 🙉
You need to use a builder's block hammer. It's does a great job, most of the time it completely destroys the hammering bolt, coupler and rod and you are picking bits of rod out of your eyeballs but every once in a while it does the job 🤪🤪🤪
Sds on hammer knocks them in a treat
Where's the old bending spring? 👍🏼
Clynikal exactly. Copex for bends is poor.
Good video mate , quick question - don't understand why you didnt use a 3 core swa to incorporate the earth from the house's earthing system aswell as glanding the swa into the house D.B then gives another path to earth aswell as the 16mm earth core as a primary earth to save taking 5 years off your life with hitting that 10 foot length of copper in the ground!
Marc Robertson your not recommended to transport PME to external buildings
@@guylljones72 I would not have used a rod on this install and utilised the TNCS earth , no extraneous services to bond with a wooden building . Where in BS7671 does it state this would be non compliant ?
@@r.h.8754 And caravan parks , shipping containers etc all detailed in the special locations section of the regulations . Domestic garages and outbuildings are not in this section because they are not prohibited from using a TNCS earth . Are you saying every house in England should be a TT because you can use a class one piece of equipment outside ?
@@r.h.8754 You are preaching to me like i dont know or understand the implications of TNCS . If it were such a risk on a garage or outbuilding it would be prohibited in the special locations section is bs7671 and it isnt . Why do you think that is ?
100% agreed. There is no problem in exporting a house PME earth to a wooden outbuilding with no extraneous conductive parts. Plus parallel up the SWA armour and the earth core, job done.
Good job Chris. My ocd was triggered with the dusk / dawn sensor and that cable - not be better with copex?
I thought that to. Iv recently installed one and ran copex from the back of a conduit end box through the wall into the bottom of the photocell. Looked 👌🏼
Smart installation. Keep up the good work 👍
Quality videos and workmanship
Love the content, I myself would of put tray up to mains board in the shed, just to make it look a bit better other than that 100% pal. cheers for all your time you put into doing the vid content,
Get a decent hammer instead of using that toffee hammer!
Showing your age knowing what a toffee hammer is 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧😀😀😀👍👍
Put a little bend in the CPC and you can use it to push the cable into the wago. :) inspired by your work dude.
Yes, I do the same... pull back the sleeving a bit, bend the conductor then use a pair of long nose pliers to grip the conductor and push into the terminal.
never been a big fan of dry earth connections, always thought soldered would be better.
Haha you're funny, that hammer made me laugh.
Some really neat and nice looking work. But I think you need to read up on earthing systems and forget the "can't export pme" myth.
Also, might be an idea not to use single pole RCBOs on a TT install. Got a feeling that they should switch in the neutral in the event of a fault.
Great video Chris, really enjoyed watching them both. Thank you.
A guy I work with said when they were doing substations in Ireland they had to put 30 plus rods down joined like you have to get to their desired reading.
Great video but just an observation. I was taught to put the extension piece on and then screw a bolt in the end. You can then drive it home without causing any damage to the Earthing Rod. Remove the bolt and extension piece and no need to grind the end off.
That's what he did for the first rod. But then he didn't have a second extension to do that for the second section of rod. Hindsight 20/20.
Selectivity on the 30mA inside and 30mA on the outbuilding? The swa doesn’t require additional protection and has mechanical protection.
Also try your Zs on a dry day and see what you got.
Finally look at JWs video about exporting PME it can be exported given the following ... No extraneous conductive parts etc.
Good video though one of the best!
Keep up the good work
I agree ,a 100 ma s type fed from a non rcd mcb would be better gives selectivity and also double pole isolation for outbuilding
Daren Vita electrical Is there actually any requirement/recommendation on having a double pole isolation on a TT system? I know it’s been brought you before when people have fitted RCBO DBs... to which I believe Wylex are the only branded RCBO with a single way double pole switching, Shame as I fit mostly Hager
Kieran Randall I have read it a good while ago ,just thinking it’s good practice to be able too totally isolate a distribution circuit, Hager do have a 100 ma single module probably not double pole ,saying that 100 ma s type are difficult to get hold of as mk don’t do theirs any more ,I have found m2 or Hager in dp rcd form
Just my opinion
Main switches have double pole isolation
100mA only needed for split load with single insulated flexi tail links
Bradley May I was referring to the use of rcd to protect the sub main distribution circuit most usually from a fire risk point of view ie in a thatched roof building for example , always pays to over engineer , the regs are a starting point
Really enjoyed the video Chris, well explained. Again this is the real world and you coped well, keep up with the ranting fella! 👍
Also the toffee hammer, will allways get comments. Shows everyone else who cilps cables in tight spaces and who's lazy! 🤷🏻♀️😉
After seeing cable clipping in action with those small hammers I said I have to get one of each now oh, I don't do it that often but when I do it oh it would have been worth it. Everybody already thinks I'm crazy for using lightweight hammers, in reality unless you're driving the Earth Rod you don't need that heavy or a hammer. Unless of course you're framing then you might want a heavier hammer or if you're like somebody I know who has bent heavyer hammers she had to go for the full steel version to prevent bending.
You should really get a SDS-adapter for slamming in those earth rods, if you do more than a few pr year, its def worth having one of those.
Then again, that wouldnt have been nearly the entertainment of watching you with that massive hammer mate
Loving the vids.
Professional job mate well done 👍
You touched a bit on PPE.
Those safety specs, unless you're wearing the correctly rated type when using disk cutters, will be useless. If you are wearing the right type, ignore me.
Particles can fly well in excess of 100m/s.
Make sure they're fully surrounding your eyes at a minimum with no gaps (full face is best, and ideally covers your neck) and should be rated to EN166B (tested at 120m/s) or EN166A (tested at 190m/s). Most safety glasses are only rated at EN166F which is 45m/s.
Im sure Ive watched a "You Tube" electrian use his heavy duty SDS drill with a socket on the end to sink a earth rod !! Might be worth a try !
Yes DSES
@@Cjrelectrical and Artisan.
Yep use your sds plus on hammer action :))
Nice neat cable work.........keep it up !
Once soldered the coupler onto the earth rod thread, never coming apart, even after driving into the ground
Your vids ar very good thanks so much for making them plz do a how to build a retractor video
I would be mindful of the potential difference between your banjo and the new fuse board as this is the whole idea of not exporting pme Into a out door environment
Heat shrink the cable and a 32-40mm TRS gland used at the adapt box in the shed. Is the way I do it.
I was thinking the same about the exposed banjo bolt head.
I normally use earthing nuts in metal enclosures, less hassle than banjos and have still used them in plastic boxes in this application, applying a warning not to connect the armour to the earth of the CU.
But in this case I would have used have just used the banjo as a washer, not using the bolt as no connection is needed.
If there was a problem with pen conductor and earth become neutral on armoured swa to said outbuilding wouldn’t the earth rod disconnect the supply anyway as there’s a path to earth that way with disconnection, and we would have 100ma up front aswell? So it makes no difference if we was to gland into metal DB for that reason or am I wrong? Cheers
@@bradleymay4770 a TT could sit at a potential without disconnecting buddy for a long while.
might bot be enough fault current to disconnect
That spare black should of been connected to cpc , there’s a guidance on it somewhere.
Supersparks I think it’s an NICEIC guidance thing
Probably, makes sense tho, I’ve been doing it for a couple of years now.
Great another 40 min video thanks for the new episode, I know how much time it must have taken to edit not easy !!! I do appreciate it keep up
I'd have put a nice bit of round flex to the D2D sensor, rather than the T&E. It looks better and those glands seal better on round than flat..
Is the T&E legal for outdoor use?
Oh wow - I always knew those spikes went down a fair way, but I had no idea they were THAT long.
Your end to end on CPC is to high if I heard it correctly at 0.27. Should be r1 x 1.67.
Assuming 2.5mm with 1.5mm earth, 2.5/1.5=1.67
Nice install though. Those lights lap from screwfix?
i just scanned through comments to see if anyone else picked this up
Another informative video for a padawan sparky like me. Cheers Chris 👍🏻
Why didn’t you just use one of the rocks as a hammer instead of that tiny thing?
Also do you recommend those lights for a workshop with the low fixing height like that, or would you recommend a different type? I have a garage I’m turning into a workshop with similar ceiling height and I’m not sure what’s best to select lighting wise.
I can't believe you use that hammer lol
Any external connector between two rods is going to create a hole that is wider than the second rod, so the second rod is not going to make much difference as it will have as a very poor connection to the ground (unless the ground is very soft and you can compact it back around the top rod over its full length). Those external connectors are best used when you can backfill a wide borehole with Bentonite. If you want to drive a rod with a connector and get a good connection to earth, you need an internal connector and rods specifically designed to work with them. You also need the SDS attachment so you can drive the rods with your SDS drill. There are a big timesaver, and they stop comments about your wee hammer!
I'd think it'd naturally fill in over time?
the conductivity to the earth is still at the tip of the first spike so still affective
On TN-C-S systems, we usually add a local ground rod array because of the open neutral risk. 3m x ground rod delta array must be
High TT ground impedances.
Thanks for the effort in recording the video!
What would be the problem if the PME earth on the armour from the house, and the earth from the rod were connected together? would that not be favourable as the PME has earth rods at multiple points before it even gets to the property, as I understand it?
If the PME earth was lost due to a fault with the supply to the property, wouldn't the extra rod just make things safer?
Wouldn't the earth rod be just like a metal earthed pipe that is bonded, like the gas and water?
Nope. Its not supposed to work that way. Doing so will result in yr sub cabin (if of metal) to be having dangerous voltage in the event the main pme broke off its neutral and leaving incomplete circuits that present live voltages on both neutrals & downstream earth. Sub cabin should be 'isolated' and having a TT arrangement.
@@piratedprivacy9052 I understand that would be the case if you relied ONLY on the suppliers earthing connection, but if you ALSO had earth rod(s) connected, just like a TT, but ALSO connected the suppliers earth, how could that impact the installation negatively?
Even worse , in fault conditions your earth could become the neutral for multiple homes, what size should it be to back up the grid, best leave that side to the power networks. We are meant to reduce risk not import them.
It would appear that a potentially dangerous situation has been left in the shed. There are 2 earthing systems in place, one being the TT system of the shed, the other being the PME of the incoming sub main supply. These 2 systems are separated in the shed, however, both can be physically touched at the same time. Should there be an external fault, in the street for example, the pme earth terminal could become live at 240v. Anyone unlucky enough to be touching the brass gland or the armour earth tag nut/bolt of the sub-main termination together with one of the new socket outlets could receive a shock. This brass gland of the sub main termination should have been an insulated type with armours cut off flush and the pvc sheath taped over thus ensuring that there can be no possibilty of touching both systems and therefore no potential of a shock situation.
How when you got a rod at the shed? That’s the path to ground. And he meantioned the mains got a tt which if I nderayand right it’s just like America. Neutral and ground bond to a rod in the earth. If anything it’s protected well. Those PME bonds you guys do out there to ground seem way more unsafe for other utilities
Come on now what’s the chances of danger “ohh yeah let’s pull this swa boot down the cable and touch the consumers unit at the same time “ what’s the chances of a pme fault at the same time you decide to toutch the swa gland and the consumer unit
You are just being silly and unrealistic come on now cjr is one of the best sparks out there and you telling him how to do things I would like to see you to get out your office and get out theere and do the work instead of slating other People’s work
you can get an attachment for your hammer drill to drive in the grounding rods
Great video as allways 👍🏻. Why use 16mm to bond the SWA at the house end? Personally would have used 10mm for a 16mm SWA. Feel your pain for earth rods, done many a EV charger. I allow for 2 rods in parallel after driving through block paved drives etc!
16mm is if you export the pme
Thanks for another great video. I am currently looking into getting some certification software and wondered what your thoughts are on the iCertifi app. Would you recommend?
daverimm1 easycert
Armoured is pissed,
Nice job 👍 a lot of led lights don’t work or fail well before they are supposed too i’ve noticed lately. Do you not put the clamp on the rod before braying it in the ground?
This - Super good video. Like!!!
thank you broather.very well
Exporting PME earth need not be an issue if you have a wooden floor and there are no extraneous conductive parts inside the building.
Yes indeed. And even if there are parts that need bonding, with a 16mm SWA this shouldn't be a problem.
Perfect! Exactly right
16mm swa you can then export the pme and bond anything there in 10mm to this new area water etc then its all at same potentional
huh so the Osram Leds I fitted recently are just a Sylvania Clone... or is it the other way round 😅
very helpful, but would have liked a more comprehensive study of the garage sub board connections
Are you guys getting the bigger sleeved cpc in your t&e anytime soon its here years now? 🇮🇪🇮🇪
Ugh I wish :( so stupid to have an undersized bare earth!
If you have RCD protection on the SWA going the length of the garden to the shed consumer unit, can the RCBO’s inside the shed consumer unit have any interference with the RCD back at the house?
Thanks.
Can I make a suggestion when fitting the earth rod? I use a drill set on hammer it works like a charm must be a heavy-duty hammer next time you fit an earth rod try the hammer you will be surprised
Good job mat
Just an opinion and observation. If the customer is using the shed as a workshop, I’m assuming there would be some medium to heavy equipment ie lathes, Stand-alone milling machines etc.. Steel conduit would have provided better mechanical protection. You could have provided a safety circuit maybe with stop buttons energising an Auxiliary contactor coil shutting down the power circuit only.
Also wiring through conduits in T&E seems like double handling and a pain in the Ass. Could you have used Singles?
Watch part 1.
Nice job 👍
I wonder if any commenters went on about T&E exposed outside. I had about 2 inch showing and the commenters went apeshit! Had to go round and do another video showing it being covered up to quell the uproar!
If you do use t+e outdoor then put into copex so the sun does degrage it.
Worse case wrap in rubber
Ultratape self almagating