Isiah Thomas Didn't Deserve To Make The Dream Team
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2022
- When talking about the 1992 Dream Team, Isiah Thomas is usually regarded as the roster's biggest snub. However I don't think he deserved to make the Dream Team at all. In this video, I'll be comparing him to everyone else who made the squad and showing why Isiah Thomas doesn't quite stack up against the competition.
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It wasn’t just MJ and Pippen who didn’t want Zeke on the team. Magic and Larry didn’t want him, either. Magic’s reasoning is the most sensical, in my view. Plus, they deserved to have a crack at a gold medal since then missed out on 1980.
Isaiah was the one who missed out in 1980. He was ON that all-collegiate team that was robbed of their chance due to the USA boycott. Pros were not allowed back then. Fast forward to 1992. When you look at the names on that team, there was clearly one missing. Thomas deserved a chance just as much as Bird, Magic, MJ, etc. Isaiah belonged on that court with those names. From that point of view, Thomas got screwed TWICE! The man has a right to be bitter.
Yes, Isiah deserved to be on the Dream Team. Magic himself called Thomas the best pure point guard in the NBA, after Johnson of course.
uh what? 1 guy(whom he was best friends with) complimented him so he deserves to be on the team? yeah, actual thinking and 10 minutes of condensed reasoning and breakdowns be damned.
@@karuscuvic uh what ?? Mostly every legend agrees with Magic 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@karuscuvic any non casual knows Isiah > Stockton...simple stuff
Noooooo please be honest Stockton was better than Isaiah despite the fact that Thomas had a better supporting cast..I will say that IT deserved to be on the team I would have chosen him over Chris Mullin.I know they played different positions but on an all star team you don't need to choose x number of guards x number of forwards etc.
Isiah's best season was nearly a decade earlier, he was completely cooked by '92. and even if we're just comparing them in their prime, Stockton is still way better.
Very underrated channel here.. soon to blow up I hope!! Very well done 👏
I saw the Dream Team roster practicing at Pauley Pavilion at UCLA leading up to the Olympics. Shaq was with them. Shaq was dominating. Shaq should have been on the team.
Isiah killed his own chances when it came to the Olympics, Magic Johnson said in “When the Game Was Ours,” a book he wrote with Jackie MacMullan and Larry Bird. “Nobody on the team wanted to play with him.” It meant plenty that the statement came from Johnson, an openly close friend of Thomas during that era in the 1980s. This argument is bigger than MJ, I noticed on other CZcamsr platforms in the comment section that people blaming MJ. You can't blame one person here, because of a comment he made. Scottie acknowledged on an ESPN interview that he didn't want to play with Isiah either. There were other comments made by other players just as well. The book also mentioned that Isiah was spreading rumors about Magic Johnson's sexuality and amongst other things. They already had other great point guards, so they didn't need him anyway. Also, there were other great NBA players who weren't selected for the dream team. Read the book! In addition, nobody was replacing MJ on that dream team because that's not even a discussion.
Great video! 👍🏽
Have you ever watched the 1986 All-Star Game? Zeke passed the ball several times.
There's a Negotiations book by a Author named Karrass called, "In life you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate for."
Isaiah negotiated himself right off that team.
Here's how: People say, "he should've been there, HE DESERVED TO BE THERE!"
My question is, why no one lobbied & demanded he be there?
Why not???
NOT ONE PLAYER DEMANDED HE BE THERE!!!
Again, why not?🤔🤔🤔🤔
Cause he beat every one of them but the college player
BTW, Laettner was the clear choice for the 12th roster spot. Laettner had put together a resume that almost no one in men's NCAA history could match: four seasons, four Final Fours, three straight title games, back-to-back championships, Player of the Year 1992, second-team All-American in 1991, first team in 1992...that selection wasn't based on "Who's going to be the better NBA player?", but "Who's the best college player?" Laettner was the best player, all things considered, in college ball back then.
Ewing was an immigrant 🥶😆😆😆
That don't hold up against any NBA star
@@whiteg53 he was a u.s citizen silly
@@theetruth8626 I agree. But the Selection Committee wanted the 12th man on the team to be a college player
But Shaq was projected #1 in that draft and not Christian Laettner. So obviously scouts thought Shaq was the better player. Christian Laettner had the most impressive college resume but he was also playing with Grant Hill and Bobby Hurley
Dude, with respect, well made video but there's no game in the world in which anyone that was actually around in this era and watched the NBA would take Stockton over Zeke. Just not happening. There's no debate here at all. Zero chance, even if you hate the "Bad Boys". The two titles to Stockton's zero are just part of it. Don't get me wrong, Stockton's a top 50 player, but in terms of skill, they simply don't compare. Stockton can't take over a game, for starters. Zeke was extremely divisive and that's why he was left out. MJ himself said that he considers Zeke the second greatest PG in history after Magic. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again, there's simply no comparison at all. Stockton and Zeke are not in the same conversation.
IT was the second best PG in the 80s there is no way that he should not be included. Both magic and Bird was chosen because of their reputation. Stats lie it's easier to score more when you play for a worst team.
I agree it's easier to put up stats on a losing team, but the Pistons only had 48 wins in '92. everyone else's team had 50 or more. so that argument doesn't really apply here.
Magic was legit better than Isiah at the time.
And yet, all the guys he named had better scoring averages than IT while playing for better teams aside from Stockton, who also played for a better team so your point isn't very valid at all lmao.
@@blakfloydAnd he still is today lol.
@@uberneanderthal The team was selected before the 91-92 season.
We can’t ignore that Jordan said if Isaiah is on the team I’m not playing.
Jordan doesn't have to play with anybody, Jordan owns the Dream Team
It's not about stats...that is an elementary take. Pistons were champions as he was the best player on that team.... the others were not end of story
If Isiah was the best player on those Pistons, it was by a very slim margin. He wasn't even the Finals MVP in '89. the Pistons were a stacked team. trade Isiah for Mark Price, they still win back-to-back.
@uberneanderthal Uh, No...Sports don't work like that. Isiah Thomas is a better player than Mark Price
@@uberneanderthalI believed at that time, Jerry West said he would take Dumars over Isiah. And he wasn't alone.
Since you know that the roster was mainly set in the 1991 off season, why use stats for Pippen, Mullin, Stockton, or Thomas for the 91-92 season? That seems like an odd way to "do your research".
The reasons Thomas *was* a snub: in the 5 seasons leading up to the Dream Team selection, he had been to the Conference Finals every year, winning 3, and wining 2 championships. Leaving out Magic and Larry who both had more WCF/ECF trips in the previous decade, and Michael (& Scottie) who lost to the Pistons twice in the ECF before his two three-peats, nobody else comes close. Clyde did make it to the WCF in 90, 91, and 92, advancing to the finals in 90 to lose to Isiah, losing in 91 to Magic, and advancing to the finals in 92 to lose to Michael.
The real question is John Stockton. Before being selected, he had been the starting point guard for the Jazz for 4 years, after 3 years primarily off the bench. He was an all-star starting in the 88-89 season, with 3 all-star selections before being named to the Dream Team. Thomas had been the starting point guard and an all-star for all 10 of his seasons before the Dream Team was named. There was very little doubt who were the best and second-best point guards of the 5 and 10 years leading up to the 1991 off season. One was on the Dream Team, the other was snubbed.
Finally, Thomas was so hated around the league that he was the Players Association president from 1988-94. All the players thought he was so horrible that they elected him over and over. As the Bulls proved with Rodman, Salley, and Edwards, people hated the "Bad Boy Pistons"... until they were providing intensity and physical play for *your* team.
*****
For all the people fixated on the Pistons leaving the bench early, please watch the Celtics in the 1988 Eastern Conference Finals. The starters leave, walking across the court, while the Pistons Adrian Dantley is about to shoot a free throw. McHale gave some fist bumps, but Bird simply walked off. And that was fine, because that is his intensity. Michael has the same intensity (as does Kobe). We celebrate them for it, nobody needed Bird to be a gracious loser. The reaction to the Pistons, and Isiah in particular, was because of the "Bad Boy" image. Not because leaving was actually a bad thing.
czcams.com/video/pRjs4z15mTU/video.html
Would have loved it if they kept it all amateurs for Team USA. Having Shaq, Alonzo Morning, Christian Laettner, Robert Horry, Harold Minor, Jim Jackson, Laphonso Ellis, etc.I believe they still could have won the gold.
Harold Minor?
@@jilly9437 Harold Miner was nicknamed "Baby Jordan".
What made the Dream Team so special was that even the NBA players who were not yet Hall of Fame level players all reached that level, with Mullin having the weakest eventual HOF case [HOF probability of 45%, every other NBA player has an HOF probability of over 99%].
Zeke definitely from a skills standpoint, deserved to be on the dream team. But some of the guys did have issues with his lack of sportsmanship. It was always considered a big deal to shake hands with your opponent after every game win or lose. It was just the year before when Zeke infamously walked past the bulls without acknowledging them after the playoff lose. In fact the NBA had some concern about him playing on the team. Remember this was an international event. What if by some miracle the USA lost. Would Isaiah shake there hands. Who knows, but it was a point of contention.
It's kinda like this.. Dr.J and Kareem passed the torch to Magic and Bird; the league was basically transitioning to Jordan. When you consider
( IF -and this is a pretty big IF )
that if those 3 didn't like him, or agreed that it was better for the team, then we are considering them not only being ambassadors of the league but it stands to reason that the carry-over extended to this, too and allowed a bit of wiggle room with the overall roster. Realistically Isaiah AND Dominuque aren't the only 2 from that era whom had a reasonable chance to play on that team.
Johnson was actually named to the team before his HIV diagnosis and subsequent (first) retirement. As such he would be the number two choice for the team after Michael. Bird was more of a legacy choice though.
Bird didn't want to play he was there because magic convinced him to do " one last run " as he stated
Bird actually finished 15th in PER that season, combined with his legacy and experience, he was a legit pick. for comparison, Isiah finished 66th in PER and had a lower VORP than Bird even though Bird only played 45 games.
So was magic I was a big magic fan but he was elected to the all star squad after HIV diagnosis now at that time Isaiah was considered the elite point Guard in the NBA probably he and Kevin Johnson magic was a legacy pick
@@ivorywatts3881 I’m discussing the Olympic team, not an all star game.
T-Pointer, tell us...are you a die hard Bulls fan, or Celtics fan? Because anyone who tries to reason and defend leaving IT off the Dream Team is simply blindly biased against all things Detroit.
Thank you! Isiah Thomas was a bad shooter who consistently did more damage to his own team's offense with his scoring than to the other team. There's a great stat on Basketball Reference called TS Add (True Shooting Points Added). It computes how many points each player scored above or below what a league average player would have scored given an equal number of true shot attempts. So essentially it shows which players combined volume and efficiency (or those that combined volume with inefficiency, for that matter). With his inefficient volume shooting, Isiah Thomas contributed -771 points to the Pistons throughout his career. This means a league average player would have scored 771 MORE points than Isiah with the same number of true shot attempts. Meanwhile, for comparison, John Stockton finished his career with +2,465 TS Add and the career assists and steals records. I'm aware that politics played into Isiah not making the team, but based on individual production, Isiah didn't deserve to.
Let me guess...You are either a Bulls or Celtics fan.
@@kkelleybass What does that have to do with it? Isaiah was one of the dirtiest players on the dirtiest team in the league. He made his bed and he didn't like sleeping in it. He also happened to be one of the most hated players in the league at the time (Kind of goes with dirtiest, doesn't it?) No, the numbers don't equate with him being on the dream team.
@@Fernando-vg4ym spoken like a true biased Bulls or Celtics fan. How did Isaiah play dirty? He was a little skinny guy compared to most NBA players. Whatever did he do that was dirty?
@@johnmackens2857 Obviously, if you have to ask how he played dirty then, either you're highly biased or, don't know WTF your talking about. And, what does size have to do with playing dirty or not? Do your homework, I'm not doing it for you.
@@Fernando-vg4ymbut that’s the era that we all glamorize and we keep saying how today’s NBA is soft and how current players like LeBron wouldn’t have made it back then and to me the Pistons personified that era to a T so why do we vilify them?🤷🏿♂️
Funny how it's always a Jordan thing. No one liked him. Malone, Bird, Scottie. Has one member of the Dream Team ever said that Isiah should have been there?
It's true. They hated him so much that he was elected as Players Association president from 1988-94.
Everyone hates Jordan too
@@UnconventionalReasoning I'm talking about a specific group or players, not the entire league. Nice try though.👍
@@overill1187 Jordan hard the final say
@@UnconventionalReasoninghonestly, that's different. Holding such a position doesn't necessarily require the same camaraderie as being in the locker room, hotels and on the court together. Past bad feelings don't surface the same way with someone holding a player rep position.
After all these years people still trying to defend the reason Isaiah was not selected just let you know they knew they messed up not putting him on the team
In some folk's opinions. In others' , nope.
Very well done!
Thank you very much!
You never watched Thomas play night after night Scotty shouldn't have been there we all know why I couldn't believe he was a top 50 player such horseshit let's not forget Jordan wasn't air Jordan just yet . Scott y pippin was the top 50 but Dominic wasn't yea right?
Dominic did not win championships. Pippen did, courtesy Jordan. Isiah is a winner, a leader, a coach on the floor and a team mate. I would have dropped Pippen and took in Isiah. Isiah's team lost very narrowly in 1988 and in 1987, they lost narrowly to Boston. Jordan is actually jealous of Isiah to this day because Isiah defeated him squarely three times in a row. Jordan had to wait for the aging pistons.
Scottie did more than Nique. All Nique did better was score.
What a thorough breakdown. I am looking forward to your future content. If you decide to return of course.
I'm glad you liked it! Looking forward to making more content.
@@t-pointer4873one of the best I ever seen he could have served in military as a youth
Like it or not chemistry matters on a basketball team and when you decide to play dirty (and the pistons knew they were dirty they called themselves the raiders of the NBA for Christ sake) and have beef with almost everyone else on the team any positives you bring can’t make up for the disfunction you risk by including him
There was no risk they would still have easily won.
@@overill1187 no doubt but it doesn’t change the fact that everyone on that team had beef with the pistons
Talent-wise yes he belonged. Personality-wise no. Isiah Thomas had beef with Magic, Larry, Stockton, Michael, Scottie, Charles and Karl Malone. Even his coach Chuck Daly didn't stand up for him. Chuck Daly wanted Joe Dumars. He should've been there in place of Lattiener, but because half the team didn't want him.
This guy is not using the same comparisons for each player. Bird could barely still play at this point, but he was on because of his former premier status. Isaiah was also a seasoned veteran heading towards his twilight years. But the poster here only compares him with the current stats of the youngest players. Isaiah should have gotten the same treatment as the other seasoned vets. What it all boils down to is Detroit Hatred. All Detroit teams are at the bottom of the popularity contest. Had Zeke, Laimbeer, and Rodman played for the beloved Celtics, their toughness would be celebrated, not hated.
Keeping Thomas out of the DREAM TEAM was the right choice. His chemistry with the others was not great and very suspect of his motives as a team player. Glad he was not on the team.
I don't think the players on the team missed him one bit.
Ive always felt it was the way that Thomas reacted to his bff Magics HIV announ ement.
The Pistons were not aging when they got swept. They got beaten on their own game and they got swept by the Bulls 4-0😂
You have quite a few problems in this video.
Isiah didn't freeze out MJ in the 85' All-Star game. That has been debunked by the East All-Star teammates, not one saying Isiah wanted to freeze MJ out of the game. So that's BS, but that's the narrative MJ has put out in the public.
I like that you put in that Drexler dunk on Isiah in the 1990 NBA Finals. Who won that series? Detroit did in 5 games. Who was the NBA Finals MVP of that Series? Isiah Thomas was. Who Scored more points per game and had more assists per game in that series? Isiah Thomas did.
Where are the Isiah highlights from that series? I know he has a few of them...
As far as the Dream Team is concerned, we all know it was a political move by Michael Jordan to keep Isiah off the team. In Jack McCallum's book "Dream Team" it specifically references Jordan's meeting with Rod Thorn, a committee selection member. The quote from Jordan, "Rod, I don't want to play if Isiah Thomas is on the team." MJ was salty that Isiah and the Bad Boys kicked his Ass three years in a row in the playoffs. Nobody cried in Detroit when Bird and other Boston starters walked off the floor before game 6 of the ECF's in 1988 when time was left on the clock and the Celtics were toast. But when it happened to MJ, Isiah had to feel his wrath.
As far as John Stockton is concerned are you really concerned about his and Isiah's production comparison from the 1991 and 1992 seasons? I know I'm not because Isiah Thomas up until the Dream Team selection announcement came out on September 21st, 1991, before the 1991-92 season was ever played, Isiah Thomas was the more accomplished player in terms of individual play and team success by far.
After the 1991 season, Isiah Thomas was a 9x All-Star and a 2x All-Star game MVP. Stockton was a 3x All-Star with no MVP's. Isiah was a 5x All-NBA selection, either the 1st or 2nd team. Stockton was a 4x All-NBA selection, with zero 1st team selections. He was on the 2nd or 3rd team. Isiah Thomas was an All-NBA 1st Team rookie selection in 1982, while Stockton didn't make the rookie selection in 1985.
Isiah led the NBA in assists in 1985, while Stockton was the assists leader from 1988 thru 91'. Stockton did make All-NBA Defensive 2nd team in 89' and 91', while Isiah didn't make any during his career. Stockton also was the NBA steals leader in 89'. But Isiah's game wasn't about being a defensive stopper. Isiah focused more on team accomplishments going forward in 1987, not individual accolades.
While Stockton was busy racking up assists from 88' thru 91' and focused on being a very good individual defender during that time, what were the Jazz doing in the playoffs? Losing. The Jazz were 2-4 in playoff series from 88' thru 91'. Not very successful, right?
Now what was Isiah Thomas and the Detroit Pistons doing in the playoffs from 1988 thru 91'? Isiah was winning. 1988 Detroit Pistons Eastern Conference Champs, lost to LA in the Finals in 7 games. In 1989 and 1990 the Detroit Pistons were your NBA Back-to-Back World Champions. In 1991 they finally lost to MJ and the Bulls in the EC Finals. That is a 13-2 playoff series record, which I think was the best in that time period. And who was the leader in those efforts to beat MJ, Bird, Ewing, Barkley, Magic, and Drexler in the playoffs? That would be Isiah Thomas.
And as far as you calling the Detroit Pistons a dirty team, well I'll just say from watching all those games played during that time period, 99% of the time the Pistons played a clean game without incident. The hard fouls, the fights, the physical play gets magnified because of who the opponent was. The majority of the clips out there being against MJ and the Bulls and Bird and the Celtics, which whom Detroit had to defeat in order to get to the mountain top.
John Stockton played in only two Olympic "Dream Team" games, and only scored 10 points total. The "Dream Team" won by 79 points, 44 points, 60 points, 41 points, 38 points, and 47 points in their six games played. John Stockton had no hand in the overall success of the team. I would have much rather seen Isiah Thomas, who should have been selected on that team based on merit and his legacy, than Stockton, who was chosen because MJ, Bird, and Magic's feelings were hurt. Immature and pathetic if you ask me.
Well said.
Bottom line Magic said Thomas wasn't good for the chemistry of the team. He had that in his auto biography. He wasn't well liked by many of the players.
@@maximostiberius2324 So, what Magic says is the Gospel. Funny thing is Magic, and Isiah had good enough chemistry to smooch each other on the cheek before the ball was tipped off in NBA Finals games. I saw Magic go into the Pistons locker room and congratulate him and praise him after Isiah had won that first title against the Lakers. The two men were best friends at one point.
The bottom line is that things were said or not said that went public in 1991 and Magic's feelings got hurt, even though it was hearsay and rumors, and not directly from Isiah himself.
@@artmeddaugh6669 you want to debate what Magic said? Lol ok...pretty sure that was before zeke questioned how magic got aids...after that it was pretty much over.
@@maximostiberius2324 I don't care what Magic had to say about it. Him and Jordan made the selection process rigged and political against Isiah, and if you don't understand that, that's your problem.
Isiah Thomas needs to let this issue go.
Sooooo we're going to compare players stats from the year AFTER Isiah led his team to TWO back to back championships (and should have won a third in '88. Kareem, that was not a foul)...I understand contrarianism but damn
And didn't the Pistons beat the Blazers in the 1990 NBA Finals?
'led his team' is an exaggeration. Laimbeer, Rodman, Dumars, Dantley, Vinnie and Aguirre, plus a deep and gritty bench. the Pistons were a stacked team top to bottom, no one player 'led' them.
Isiah didn't even have the highest VORP or PER on the team in '89, and he declined significantly by '92.
@@uberneanderthal The 91-92 season is irrelevant, the team was mostly selected during the 1991 off season, including the decision to leave Thomas off the squad. Bu they absolutely should have considered PER for '89 and '92! Why didn't they?
Isaiah deserved to be on the team, it was a no-brainer. Unfortunately, Isaish was an asshole and many of the players especially Jordan couldnt stand the guy. Not just him but his team were despised because of their dirty style of basketball. Even to this day, you can hear the hubris and hatred from the guy when he talks about his peers. I still consider him as one of the best point guards ever but the more I learn about him, the more I dont like his character.
Isaiah Thomas replacement ,John Stockton, assist leader arguably the greatest point guard. That's disrespectful to Stockton
Sorry man, Stockton was not a winner. This counts.
@@polytimetube Yeah but Stockton didn't play dirty or refuse to shake hands after losing and that counts too.
@@jilly9437 "Stockton didn't play dirty"... Are you sure? Really sure?
NBA players didn't have a handshake line after games at the time. The NHL did, the NBA did not.
Was John Stockton the "assist leader arguably the greatest point guard" in August 1991?
No. Absolutely nobody wanted to play with him.
They were whiners that’s why Patrick Ewing was an immigrant by the way they did him bogus
@@whiteg53 Curious why you say “Ewing was an immigrant” on all your posts?
@@MrRufusRToyota he could barely speak clear English he’s from Jamaica 🇯🇲 Isaiah is from the West Side of Chicago he’s American 🇺🇸 not Ewing that is a fact Isaiah wasn’t even 6 feet tall they just mad he was better than them I’m with Laimbeer they were whiners and I’m from Chicago
@@whiteg53 Got it. But you know he was a citizen when he represented the country? He became a US citizen when he was in college.
@@MrRufusRToyota that’s a damn lie he’s from Jamaica 🇯🇲 he AINT from here as much as I love him
The real problem is that Chuck Daly, the Dream Team Coach and Coach of the Bad Boy Pistons, didn't stand up for Isiah Thomas. Stockton has the stats but no championships. Isiah Thomas wins championships. Period. Point blank. End of.
Isaih Thomas didn't orchestrate the walkout against the Bulls. Bill Laimbeer did.
Why the hell was Christian Laettner there?
most of the people would say Isiah is better then Stockton🤨
Not that year.
I wouldn't agree with that
maybe if it was 1982 instead of 1992
@@BSmoothe805 Which year? The Dream Team was not about one year.
@@rocknroll7316 At the time, I think there was little doubt that Thomas had been the better point guard. Stockton had been a starter for only 4 years (after 3 years coming off the bench). He was racking up assists on a team which only won playoff series in those 4 years. Yes, Thomas had a better supporting cast. Stockton, however, was a member of his team's supporting cast. Stockton had all-defensive team selections, Thomas was captain of one of the best defensive dynasties in NBA history. I think people generally agreed that Thomas had been the second best point guard of the previous 3, 5, and 10 years.
They demonstrated that they didn't need him. Sure as hell they didn't!
Nice video bro. I've been making this argument for awhile to people who keep talking about Isiah being snubbed. A lot of braindead idiots actually think Stockton shouldn't have been on the team, lmao. That makes me laugh every time and always lets me know how poor their basketball knowledge is. Not only was Stockton better than Isiah the two seasons leading up, but he had been for like half a decade, including the years the Pistons won NBA titles. The Pistons were better than the Jazz, but Stockton was better than Thomas for roughly half a decade and the gap widened every year. Pretty much from the moment Stockton was made a starter, he was better.
Do you understand that how a team is constructed can determine someone stats...Zeke is a Finals MVP who was the best player on the best team in the NBA. 25 points in the 3rd quarter on a bum ankle still a Finals record by the way and they got robbed of the championship by a b.s. foul on Laimbeer in 1988. Stockton has nothing close to this on his resume. The comparison is not even close. Zeke is a leader and Stockon was the sidekick to the 3rd All-Time Scorer. There are levels to this....
At no time was John Stockton better than Isaiah Thomas
🤣🤣🤣🤣 You're the type to say to someone "Your a idiot" 🤡
Someone here didn't watch basketball in the 80s and early 90s
@ Snake Plissken I agree with you and I think an argument can be made that Stockton was better than IT despite the fact that Thomas had a better supporting cast..Stockton had Malone but Isaiah had a great starting 5 and a deep bench
Who was the Dream team head coach? Think about it fellas why would your coach allow you to be off the team?
Chuck Daly
Because Chuck Daly understood that politics was involved.
On the other hand, all the people who say that nobody wanted Thomas on the team because they hated the Bad Boy Pistons did take the Piston's head coach, the person who probably created the Jordan Rules. Everyone who says that Thomas would have wrecked the team chemistry is ignoring the fact that they all played for Thomas's coach.
Pistons JUST WON those times because --- their opponents were HURT playing and injuries from dirty players.
As a player he deserved to be on the dream but being left off is his own fault and his own doing
Thomas easily deserved to be on the dream team.... Yall casuals mad he kicked yall heroes asses in the playoffs
It never had anything to do with Jordan. Jordan didn't say sh1t. It all started with Magic and Larry. Isaiah walking off had nothing to so with it. It was all because Isaiah betrayed and back stabbed Magic and Magic would withdraw if Isaiah was on the team and Larry felt the same way.
The only person who was wronged here was Shaq. He should have been on the team. I don't care about IT not making it, it's understandable why he wasn't lol.
Choose: MJ vs Zeke.
Anyhow, it was more than that. And more won. Understandably so.
The dream team should ve never allowed to be in 1992 Olympics magic Larry and Micheal should be ignored
Good video. I agree Isiah deserved to be left off the Dream Team. But I think because of his classes play on a classes team. Pistons made enemies ALL THROUGH the league. There’s a price to pay for that. But talent wise Isiah should have been on the team. His body of work in the 80’s I mean it wasn’t Magic, Bird or Mike of course. But Isiah was a better player than Stockton. And I love John S. but he wasn’t Isiah. But you’re point is still a good one. The Dream Team certainly didn’t need him. And I say that’s the price u pay for leading the dirtiest team EVER in the NBA without a doubt. Good video
Man all the teams played like that did you see what Larry Bird and the Boston Celtics doodle to the Lakers in the playoffs clothes lining taken them to the foot real hard fouls but problem was the piston could do it better that how the game was played you we’re not allowed to make layups you had to earned it from the free throw line Boston did as much as the piston
I find it ludicrous and hypocritical about how people glamorize that era of basketball and how they always say that current players like LeBron would’ve never made it back then but you have a team like the Pistons who personified that era to a T and everyone dogs them out just because they beat Jordan.
@@calebdouglas7622 that’s what it’s all about I been watching basketball since 1955 and can play now and he would be so much better than because he would be the fastest the strongest and have a better basketball IQ they had to protect Michael he went to the commissioner crying because they wouldn’t let him go to the basket without getting foul hard so the commissioner wanted him to be the face of the league so Michael said if he was to be the face of the NBA he had to change how the game was officiated after that meeting you could not blow on Michael
I’ll also say that Larry Bird in no way deserved to make it based on the player he was in 1992.
Statistically speaking I can’t disagree with you about that. But Bird and Magic basically had guaranteed spots on the team. So that’s why I didn’t talk about them too much.
Having Magic and Larry on the team is part of how others agreed to join. There was hesitancy for the NBA players, many still saw it as the domain of amateur players. As the team was being assembled, there was little doubt they would win. The PR aspect was more important, especially to NBA Commissioner David Stern. That PR aspect started and ended with Michael, Magic, and Larry. Everyone else was irrelevant.
Watch the two games Isiah played against the Jazz that caused Malone to give Zeke 44 stitches because he was abusing Stockton. He was sending a message after he saw he wasnt being selected. Do better man
Good videoo. So he wasn't left out because he was black?
Simple Jordan was the show piece but Thomas had more rings at the time . This avoid confusion
Jordan and Thomas both had 2 rings at the time, Olympics were right after the 92 season ended, bulls won in 91 and 92.
@@chadbinette3201 The "dream team" was selected in September 1991. Jordan had 1 championship
@@mongoslade277 I think this is the aspect that everyone having the "Was Thomas Snubbed?" discussion forgets. Even this video, which explicitly states this, uses 91-92 season stats. Of course it also uses stats which were created after 1991. It was so wrong of the selection people to not use PER!
The 85 All-Star game? MJ cries and lies, and uncritical fans repeat the words. That dude lies. Stockton sure did win a lot of media awards. Good for him.
This was as cringe of a take as I thought it would be. I gained nothing from hearing this argument out.
Isiah Thomas's attitude kept him off that team. Not his skill level. He didn't get along with alot of people. Not only players, but announcers also.
Hey in 1985, DrJ, magic & bird were the NBA royalty who honestly believe Isaiah could tell them what to do as far as MJ being frozen out of the game, second MJ is the only reason Thomas was not on that team period and last but not least anyone who believes Stockton was more deserving than Mr Thomas, how Thomas was a back to back champion more all star appearances and a better defender your video only show the politics involved in sports and it's a shame.
U understand even there coaches could have served they are were the game
False.
You say Thomas walked off with 6 seconds left, but the clock clearly shows 7.9. That should be a fairly easy edit. Wow.
That's a minor issue compared to combining 90-91 and 91-92 stats while even stating that the team was mostly selected during the 1991 off season.
I would also pick Stockton at this stage over Thomas. He is a shooter and he will defer to other stars especially in a team full of big egos. If Bird wanted out because of his injuries that is the only viable choice, but he wanted to play I'll stick with Bird over Thomas for his leadership.
Really? At that point Isaiah was a 2 time champion and 2 time Finals MVP how do you choose a John Stockton over that. And plus this was before John Stockton Co mvp season
@@jermainejones4388 I agree that Thomas was better at the time, but he only won 1 Finals MVP, Dumars won the other.
Bro are u crazy I'm 50 an it was all type of politics going on Isaiah Thomas was hated because Detroit was kicking everybody's ass back then I don't know how old u are but that's ur opinion cool vid anyway
Isaiah used to bust Mike ass Isaiah was so dope and Ewing is an immigrant 😂😂😂😂
I'm 51 and you're absolutely right. These stat boys and fan boys have no idea what they're talking about. They weren't there
Isiah was a winner and carried the Detroit team as a leader and coach on the floor. Every member of the Detroit team was made better by Isiah. This is not the case with Stockton though he was a very good player. Pippen should not have been selected for the dream team. MJ was jealous of Isiah even now because Isiah beat him squarely for three seasons in a row and Jordan had to wait. This act of Isiah not getting selected was the handy work of Jordan.
Nonsense. This team was called "Dream team". Isiah will score very high on "quality". . He is a winner. I would have chosen him instead of Pippen.
WHY DID THEY GET LAETNER INSTEAD OF SHAQ
that was world class stupid
Because "the college kid" would happily sit on the bench. It was expected that Shaq would want to sit at the big boys' table.
in life you make friends and you make enemies. that is why no one want you in the Dream Team, not even your own
coach.. get over it
NOO THATS FALSE ISAIAH DID NOT DO THAT DURING MJS ROOKIE ALL STAR GAME!! Amd the pistons made it pass the first round during 03-08 what do you mean they would never make pass the first round? And in 92 thomas statistics were better. Your ready Stocktons stats from today in 2020 after he stop playing, during 92 isiah had the experience and stats better them Stockton. He never won a championship, which factors into playing against EVERY COUNTRIES BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD! Who's got the experience on rhe bigger stages and under pressure? Stockton even now in 2023 never got the ring. Like they say WITHOUT THE RING IT DONT MEAN A THING! I'll give you his health (wrist) was hurt. Bro YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH! THERE IS WAY MORE analyst with more experience who are actual professional analyst or professional players former professional players that agree isiah was snubbed. And a true analyst should know that statistics don't mean s*** at the end of the day statistics can be deceiving and that's all you're basing your backside of statistics so I think you need to do your research pal because of this video I'm not subscribing to you I like your other videos but this one is just ridiculous
Maybe your attitude had something to do with. Feel Me!!!!
I.Thomas NEVER been a Dream Team. ------ Dirty point guard.
He definitely deserved to make the team. Blasphemy
100% agree & the Same with Shaq...
From the standpoint of "Who was the best point guard, from 1989-91, after Magic?" It's clear to me that Kevin Johnson and John Stockton were superior individually to Isiah. Terry Porter and Tim Hardaway were arguably better. Of course, Isiah was the head of the snake for Detroit teams that went back-to-back, so he's got that going for him. But you combine his not-so-great individual production with the fact that basically nobody liked Isiah, then you've got reason enough to exclude him.
Isaiah Thomas was taught MJ how to pick his spots I seriously doubt what you’re saying 😆😆😆 he used to drop Mike ass off
Dumbest take ever. He had 2 rings and better numbers than Stockton at the time. Zeke and Wilkins (who was hurt) should have been there.
@@itz-luigi1210 MJ was a bitch 😂😂 how you hate a man under 6 feet what a wussy
Birds game was declining, at the time of the dream team Zeke had better numbers than Stockton. Zeke also had ECF wins over Bird, MJ and Pippen. Finals wins over Clyde and Magic. Take your advanced stats and shove em
@@itz-luigi1210 1) He did not have better numbers than Stockton, ESPECIALLY in the years leading up to 1992
2) All by himself, he won those two rings. The other Pistons just stood around and watched.
Dude I'm sorry. Nobody in their right mind thought Isaiah didn't belong on that team. Your too young to remember. Nobody thought Stockton was better than thomas then. State only say so much. Based on stats Chamberlain is the GOAT. Based on the number of championships stat Russell is the goat. No disrespect but it's pretty obvious you probably weren't even born then much less old enough to remember. But you're entitled to your opinion.
Isiah was better than Stockton.
In his prime, yes. That wasn't at the time the team was selected.
No. Thomas would have messed up the chemistry. The 1992 dream team was greatest team ever assembled. The dream team did not need Thomas
Thomas would have messed up the chemistry because he was captain of the Bad Boy Pistons. He played under the Jordan Rules. Yet the team managed to be coached by Thomas's coach, who created the Bad Boy Pistons, wrote the Jordan Rules, and bonded with Jordan during their time together. And Thomas was so hated that he was the Players Association president from 1988-94.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Thomas wasn't good enough to be on the dream team
@@r0ckstar666 that might be the stupidest comment on the entire comment section of this video.
They were so superior to the other teams at the time that they still would have easily won the championship.
Your on Crack
Jordan kept Thomas out because he and his team walked out when Jordan won the series against Detroit.
Yes, I remember a rumor at the time that Jordan threatened to stay off the team if Isaiah was included. I have no idea if that is true or not.
Not exactly. Jordan was eliminated by Isiah and his team for three consecutive seasons. Jordan had to wait for the pistons to decline. The fact that Isiah defeated him 3 times makes a black mark in Jordan's career. Jordan is uncomfortable and sullen even today solely because of his defeats at the hands of Isiah.
Stockton and Drexler were not winners. Isiah was a winner. Pippen was a side show. No matter what, the dream team without IT is a fake one.
@@polytimetube lol You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. The Pistons weren’t in any decline. The Pistons finished 3rd in the Eastern Conference. Not to mention Thomas was 30, Dumars, 28, Rodman 30. They still had a great team with a core still in their primes. They just ran into a Bulls team that were better at that point. It doesn’t take away how great those Pistons teams were. And how dominant the Bulls were becoming. You should definitely watch more basketball instead of just making up shit lol
Best point ever an immigrant in Patrick Ewing and a college kid they bogus
Why is an immigrant bogus?
I thought the only thing which required being a 'natural born citizen' was US president [& VP]. For anything else, the only requirement is citizenship, and perhaps enough years of residency. Ewing had been in the US for 17 years when the games happened.
Isiah definitely deserved to be in the dream team and if Shaq would of been there Instead of latnier it would of been 12 for 12 for hall.of fame and in Isiah's defense, def better then Stockton on my opinion, but magic and bird deserved to be on the team even if they never touched the court, just for what they did and meant to the NBA .
Go see Stockton highlight muxtape,
Isiah got hurt and was unpopular but individually was more talented than Stockton. The real proof is to ask their peers when Thomas and Stocton were AT THEIR BEST. Not who played longer or who played with whom, ( Karl Malone) or whose team won more games. There were other players like Thomas who showed great potential too but who similarly got hurt and had to retire., Thomas belonged on that team, but he was kept off really only because he was perceived as being an unpleasant guy and even though it was less than a genuine reason, it was still made to keep him off the team. Thomas was a GREAT player before the injuries with or without talented teammates from the first time he stepped on a court.
@@leonardcharles59 don't even waste your time with these clueless kids ... they'll never get it..
@@mariopantoja8259 How much of the Stockton highlight tape is pre-1991?
Overrated and a legend in his own mind. Just like his career in the front office of many NBA teams.
Overrated? Back to back NBA champion? Mannnnn, go to the park. 😂🤡
@@mattthompson9835 , Not one member of the Olympic team wanted The overrated whiner on the team!
This is a joke.
No. Stockton fit better. Mullins was a better shooter. Everyone else was bigger , more versatile, and a much better defender.
Stop it Stockton wasn't a better fit than Thomas
Thomas was the better player
You obviously never saw Isiah in all star games. Imagine Isiah on a team like that
I'm gonna go there, and say that racism played a part in the "Dream Team" selection. Christian Laettner over Shaq? Chris Mullin over Isaiah Thomas? (the real reason was Jordan hated Isaiah, but still). Larry Bird was also barely able to play with his back... Look, I cherish memories of the dream team. I went to UCSD when they practiced there, of all our places- our little Division III school. But in retrospect, there were definitely some slights- and another great video from your channel.
I remember how stunned people were when Mullin was chosen. I'm not sure if racism was behind that idiotic choice but it would not surprise me.
@ Jesse Stirling in Birds case yes he had a bad back but this was not an NBA all star team this was an Olympic team and Bird was picked because of his great career, his leadership and because Magic lobbi hard to have Bird on the team
I will disagree about both Bird and Laettner. There was little doubt that the team would win. PR was more important, and that started and ended with Michael, Magic, and Bird. Getting Michael was difficult. Getting Magic was easy. Getting Bird was a big step towards getting Michael. This also begins and ends the Thomas snub issue.
Laettner was chosen over Shaq because they were confident Laettner would know his place was on the bench. They expected Shaq to want to sit at the big boys' table. He had not yet earned that.
Mullin, though... I think Worthy made more sense...
No, he didn't
If that's all the thought you can put into the question, it's natural that you'll end up with the wrong conclusion.
@UnconventionalReasoning that's all the thought that's required Sparky. Educate yourself
@@PoliticusRex632 Haha, I educate others. But they have to start at a pretty high level, so I won't have to bother with you.
@@UnconventionalReasoning sure you do Sparky.
@@PoliticusRex632 you wouldn't even know what it means to be smart. Go back to being a clown.
Man are you CRAZY?? LMFAO! I’m not even an Isiah fan, I just love NBA basketball, and EVERYONE WHO WAS ASKED THE QUESTION, “who was the better player,” everyone of them said ZEKE!!! Loved Stockton’s game, he certainly earned his respect, YET Isiah Thomas KILLED HIM every matchup! Zeke was the FRANCHISE, Stockton passed the ball to the FRANCHISE. There is a difference.
Can't disagree too much. Isiah had him in every statistical category except assists and perhaps longevity, if that counts as a stat that is. Even when you look at winning, Isiah won multiple titles, Stockton had none. You could argue Stockton's game would be better for the Dream Team because they had plenty of offense, they just needed a distributor and Stockton is a pass first guy, but in terms of all around productivity, Isiah was definitely better.
Isiah put a 40 🍔 on Stockton everytime he played against him. That's why Karl Malone put that elbow on Isiah. He didn't want Stockton embarrassed. That happened in the 1991-92 season btw
@@jeremiahjohnson1513 yes, and longevity and assists were in Isiah's favor in the 1991 off season when the Dream Team was selected. I would also say that Isiah was a pass first guy, but without a consistent 30-pt scorer, he was also sometimes the finisher.
He deserved to be on that team..