TIP OF THE DAY: Never Use Scotch-Loc’s On Aluminum Cylinder Heads.
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 07. 2024
- TIP OF THE DAY: Never use scotch-Loc’s on aluminum cylinder heads, this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine and very bad practice in a shop! In this video, I will show you why this very common practice can leave you, and your customer wondering " What the heck went wrong?". I will also tell you a better way to accomplish a smooth finish, even if you don't have a mill.
Tip of the day, scotch-Loc’s,mill head,cylinder head,
Scotch-loc’s,Machining, machinist, automotive machining, DIY, automotive DIY, easy diy tutorials, fix your car, fix your car easy free, machinist tips, cylinder head, cylinder block, headgasket, engine problems, Smokey Yunick, best damn garage in town, faye hadley, all girls garage, pistons and pixiedust, pixie dust, daniel soliz, danny and faye, automotive book club live, Hill Country Performanance & Machine, HCP, flathead, flathead ford, 8BA - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Many years ago when I was working for Chrysler (for 42 years) we told techs to never use those wheels on aluminum surfaces. We didn't like techs to use them on cast iron. The suggestion was to use oven cleaner and a wooden scraper. I still use this method. It is litteraly fool proof with great results.
This seems like “was it the chicken or the egg” type of scenario. It would be fantastic to see a freshly milled aluminum head get whacked with a roloc pad AND roloc bristle (half and half the head) and then compare measurements.
Friday night videos, after a long week, this is great!
As always the true professional advice of a master engine builder! Thanks Danny!
Good to know. Liked the demonstration with the dye... made it easy to see the problem.
Thanks Danny for the great tips I do enjoy watching your videos as a technician it allows me to better understand the work that is involved being a machinist and also all the tricks of your trade that you pass on to us through your videos
Thank you,that’s good to hear.
Hi and THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!! I WAS ABOUT TO WALK OUTSIDE AND GRAB MY SOTCH BRITE EQUIPED DIE GRINDER... and said I'll watch one more video.... and this was that saving grace. Thanks a million!! subscribed and liked
I just never thought about this! Thank you for this enlightening video.
I agree with you on the scotch brite but in my 30 years shop experience most aluminum cylinder heads cup like that from heat cycles and need to be cut flat again, not shined up.
very eye opening! the video quality is getting better as well, keep it up!
Thank you
I really enjoyed this one... very informative. Thanks Danny!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love the Racing Head Service banner! That goes back a ways
Your so right about the SB. In my shop at times I tell them to take it somewhere else. I dont need the headache from someone elses screw up.
👍 I say all the time, there’s plenty of people taking short cuts ( trying to make more money) I just charge more and do it right.
Okay I admit I have used scotch brite on aluminum heads before , and still had a leak, AND I learned my lesson !
Was told to scrap gasket material off and not to grind with anything when I was working on autos. That was on iron materials also. Our use Scotch-Brite was on the exterior to clean and make things shine. Good explanation on the cause and effect.
Scott's bright eats away more material than what many think
Long time NO see. GLAD your BACK!
Thank you
that mill is the only way to surface heads! I love it, will send it out
You're absolutely correct Danny.
People are ruining their heads.
Dang Scotch brite, roloc disc.
Tool truck guys promote this.
All my heads are prepped by hand!
I had a VM2000 Winona for 32 years.
Was still good when I traded it in to Joe Baker.
I have a Comec ACF 200 now, CBN and PCD.
GREAT content Danny!
Thank you, EM.
Thank you.
Thanks for this! Too many people and even manufacturers say it’s fine 😮
Great way to show this!
So , when i was 11 yrs old 1977 i heard you could grind your head for higher compression...
So , pulled head off my Briggs and took one swipe on the tool grinder. the looking at my work It was at that moment i realized just how screwed i was.
I called my Uncle out of state who drag raced , sure wasnt gonna bother dad at work. I didnt even get past the i tried to grind the head...
He just laughed and asked how i was gonna fix it? In despair I told him It was broke, and you cant . (I was 11)
Dad got home from work (then bar), saw it, and flipped. Chewed me out royal, made me feel like a dork and handed me a dirty used Briggs cylinder head.
Turns out...My uncle called him and they laughed, pops picked one up from the junkyard on the way home for like $2.
Then dad ate dinner, told me i better put it together tonight! And hit the bar as usual till 11pm. Oblivious that i existed.
Looks great at the end; here in Spain we've a saying: "Visteme despácio que tengo prisa" = "Dress me slow that i'm on a hurry", it's means that it's better to take the needed time to get the wanted resoults. Do it faster don't means doing it better, ask any girl.. tjo!; anyway, another good tip on the video for the life that i liked too, 'the fact that you can do it don't mean that you've to', yeah.
👍 thanks for the video
If you're going to do a actuate test then mill the head first to make sure there's no warpage then hit it with a disc.
10-4 exactly the answer I expected but could not find any good info on head gasket prep for aluminum heads thanks !
Good videos…great humor too!
Thank you
I use a brand new razor blade and a widget holder. For the tough spots I might use a brass hand brush that you use for cleaning before welding aluminum. Never had a problem with it
WOW! I've gotta say, I have seen that SO. MANY. TIMES!!!! It is so discouraging! Smart techs that do it too!! Like what's wrong with you people?!?? 🤯 Great demonstration! Great visuals!!!!!
Exactly!!
Hey Faye need you visit or watch a video from 3rd country mechanics and machinist it will blow your mind on how they do thing
Good vid !
good man, thnx G
Brilliant video thank u 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Did this to a ka24de Nissan engine about 10 years ago still runing to this day lol
Glad to see 👀 another 📹 brother. 1AM? Heh
The only time I have to work on videos is after work or on weekends and most of the time it’s late at night. You can kinda tell by the editing.
Very good video, I was wondering the same as 802 Garage and Boost Surprice, what would happen if you use the Roloc Bristle Disc, if you could do it, it would be great !!!! Thank you so much!!!!
Going on eBay and buying one this weekend. Great idea !
I understand what point you are trying to make with this video. I have been an automotive mechanic for 35 years and am calling you out on your milling demonstration condeming the use of abrasive pads. That deck surface was not just altered by abrasives.
Rol-lok disc's can cause a lot of damage. They work great for porting and combustion chamber mods. Pads work great for cleaning, same thing though don't concentrate use in one area.
I was a bit confused at first why someone would use anything much less scotch-brite on a milled head and then it dawned on me that some mechanics actually do this by hand which I wouldn't do on the biggest turd of a car unless the owner specifically asks for it.
Otherwise scotch-brite is very useful only I use it by hand so I can't really overdo it especially on less critical surfaces. It's not a tool's fault if you're using it wrong.
Long time rider (motox bikes/dirt-street) working at Yamaha Kawi shop) seen guys use them on 'center cases' as well as 'head' it ruins the cases and head both. Also, the material (grinding dust) saturates all in the passages. I always knew this was wrong as it 'removes materials' aluminum and destroys with the 'dust'.
Properly used carbide scraper works awesome for gaskets without damaging head or block surfaces. And I love my block and 800 grit. Keep them rolling Danny.
Goodvid👍
Thank you 🙏
Hi
What a carbide scraper lightly?
They have plastic type scraper. Like a plastic razor blade.
Not a putty knife.
Maybe like the white scotchbrite. The mildest on a block. Just to find any high spots with dykem
They have gasket remover in an aerosol can. Tempted to try using that?
In the past I have used lacquer thinner. Was not bad.
Thank you.
"Imaginary Scotch Brite life" I'm dying here!😂😂😂😂😂
It's the torque of the head bolts pulling down over the head gasket ring around each cylinder. It's bow down in between the head bolts. Put something down hard and tighten aluminum down all the way around you get a bowl effect.
Just learned something
Awesome demonstration! Using any kind of abrasive on a power tool is asking for problems. The exception may be plastic or nylon bristle wheels. Wonder if even those are fully safe. Thanks!
I'm wondering the same thing.
I’ll have to buy one and mill a head then use it and mill it again and see what happens.👍
100% safe. It's the intended purpose of the green, yellow, and white bristle discs.
My set of Roloc’s bristle disc’s just came in and I’ll do a follow up video soon. This time I’ll mill first the test them all on a used/junk head. 👍👍👍
@@MrDanielSoliz Woo! Looking forward to it. I've seen your eBay ad about 100 times now. ;)
never use a zip {powered tool} of any kind on a deck surface of any kind. that was my day 1 lesson at the machine shop. then we blued up a head took a skim and he showed me the golfball it creates.
30 years ago as a Chrysler tech we had Cummins come in for warranty claims on 5.9 diesels. They threatened us if anyone in the shop used scotch brutes they would reject the warranty claims. Not only the damage they can cause it's the grit and debris that goes all over.
It so hard for some people to understand how bad this is! Happy Monday.🙌
Hi.
On modern common rail turbo diesels would you advise to spray Hylomar onto gasket prior to installation?..
Yes sir!
My Subaru dealer replaced the head gaskets on my 2004 outback (no surprise the gaskets went 🙄....it's a Subaru). Sure as crapping the head gaskets were leaking 10, 000 miles later. I bitched to Subaru headquarters and the replaced the gaskets again BUT I insisted on milling the heads (they all drop in the center of the head). 50,000 later no problems. MLS gaskets require a perfectly flat and fine surface finish.
I port Japanese motorcycle heads....I won't touch a head unless I can valve job and mill the head. Same goes with cylinders.....they all need to be decked.
I have seen iron heads and blocks gouged with roloc discs. I never use them. A razor blade at a 90 degree angle is about as aggressive as I get
retired GM tech 3years ago, we knew not to use scotch brite back 15years or more We started to notice bearing failures on intake gasket replacement jobs. the abrasive would get in engine lifter valley. They take off too much metal and leave too much abrasive...
I hope tech’s read this. Thank You !
First of all you should never ever used power tools with scotch-brite on aluminum cyl head nor blocks and suppose used WD40 very light pressure by hand if get right kind of pad like Light Gray or White pads as for Red, Gray, Green and other color it dose have it place in community when it come to power tool product like Welding. The best way I heard of clean aluminum engine parts with little to no scrubbing Totally Awesome I heard it work well but I my self have never used it, Daniel while you make a good point there are other way not everyone has $$$ to have cylinder heads resurfacing done.
you must of been watching pron for two minutes on the black out video part. I can do that too 🤣🤣🤣
Can you make a video on how to properly clean it?
How to clean the surface or the cylinder head?
@@MrDanielSoliz both? Unless the same method will work for both
How much do you charge to mill a head like that one in the video?
To be honest if your doing a head job you should always get it faced. Learnt that from doing many rover k series head gaskets o either years.
I think you would be better to add to the header that you mean a roloc wheel . . Big difference vs a scotch brite pad
Scotchbrite is a material. Nothing wrong with Scotchbrite when used in certain applications. Those rotary tools some people like to use are the problem. Never use those on any machined surface, aluminum or cast iron. We get a lot of cylinder heads and blocks shipped to our shop that someone nearly 'ruined' with one of those rotary, spinning tools. I've joked with our Snap-on tools guy about giving one of those rotary tools to every garage around, because it will bring us a lot of work. lol
Nice try but go back and watch after the first cut. You'll see the spots where the headgasket's hylomar 'ring' is a higher spot than some other spots. When ANY abrasive media is used to clean up a surface, it's going to remove as much off the deposits as it will the clean metal around it. It will never make it flat, just pretty.
Use a razor or a mill, that's it.
@@hydrocarbon8272 We work in a machine shop. Blocks and heads are re-surfaced on a vertical/horizontal boring mill. We get many parts sent to us for re-surfacing after someone has tried cleaning it with a rotary abrasive tool.
Right! When you’re turning it at 10 rpm of course it’s gonna take metal too. I use scotchbrite for washing dishes and hand rub the old gasket material off. I’m just working on my own stuff but I’ve never had one leak yet.
The closest machine shop to me is 2.5 hours away and this is my daily driver, taking it to a machine shop is not an option. Im not planning on using a power tool to clean the block/head surface, but getting them clean with a plastic razor blade and or shop rag or nylon brush which really equates to a fkn toothbrush and an assortment of cleaners is a PITA.. Ive considered using a scotchbrite pad by hand but also read they have aluminum oxide and i dont want that crap all over everything.
I've known this for years. Aluminum is to soft for even a mild abrasive like Scotch bright. They adding it to a die grinder is just begging for trouble.
Hello Daniel. Thank you for this video.
TL:DR
How do you feel about using a brass wire cup brush on the deck surface?
I found your video because I replace my head gasket on my VW and it leaked between oil and coolant, but not coolant to oil. I am about to replace the head gasket again with a new felpro gasket, as well as a new digital torque wrench. I used a brass wire cup brush on a battery drill on highest speed with varying pressure. I was still able to see the old gasket outline, but could not "feel" the things i could see.
Be very careful with the wire brush, I’ve seen people be able to use it but most of the time it damages the surface. At this point I would pressure test the cylinder head and make sure it doesn’t have an internal leak. Then have the head surfaced or use some 320 grit wet and dry sandpaper and a piece of glass or flat surface to lap the surface. Hope this helps.
@@MrDanielSoliz I will do just that. Thanks for the reply.
I replaced the head gasket because of a "VERY" gently broken timing belt. It broke 30 seconds after the high idle slowed after start up. no throttle input at the time of failure and I shut it off immediately. All exhaust were bent, and 2 intake.
The head gasket was from BRTEC however I purchased a FelPro MLS gasket designed for slightly uneven surfaces so when i change it that's what's going back in.
We don't know if you measured the valley of someones scotch work or if the cams are parallel to the deck
How can you prevent paint peeling off of aluminum when it gets hot? Like heads or valve covers......
It’s all in the preparation on the metal, sometimes it helps to preheat the parts. Try heating a clean piece of aluminum and you will see it start to sweat, I also like power coating the parts.
What about 3m roloc bristle disc made for aluminum?
I will be testing them, I’ve had lots of feedback on them and some people say they won’t hurt the deck.
I have never seen a mechanic use scotch Brite on a head or block surface... I guess that makes me lucky? I've seen razor blades, gasket scrapers, putty knives and sand paper.. I have gotten away with using spray adhesive to glue sand paper to a cast iron surface plate and run the head over that. The thing is you need a surface bigger than the thing you're trying to flatten.. but using an indicator and some blue u can keep everything close enough to square and flat especially a pushrod head... Cams in the head does raise the stakes a bit but still doable.. I think a 2x4 with sand paper wrapped around it or a dull butter knife would have done better.
How thick is the dyecom ?
What about a 8" hog cutter and 600 grit sand paper?
What about the plastic roll loc from 3m
I’ve been told their ok but don’t know,I just bought some to try out. I’ll let you know.
What would be a good substitute to this if you couldn't get an engine block to the machine shop? Would the whole 1500 grit sandpaper and glass trick work? I'm asking because I can't get my whole ass block to the machine shop just to mill it down.
Glass or a piece of granite works great and I have surfaced a block on a stand before and it worked .👌
@@MrDanielSoliz oh thank God. That's exactly what I did. I was terrified I ruined the block. Thank you sir!
When the manufacture is paying you 1/4 of the time it takes to do the job properly then these heads will continue get the scotch brite disc, everyone is always bashing techs but have no clue what really goes on
So it’s the manufacturer fault, no it comes down to the shop!
Not bashing tech’s here. ASE certified tech myself.
Don’t lower your standards because of the shop you work for, it’s up to you to raise the standards. The shop will thank you for it!
Should you have checked before and after the scotch brite it would be more a much more accurate comparison.
Yes I have and am doing a longer video , I’ll take a junk aluminum head and mill it before I start and will also use Roloc and see how they do.
Shit....in the 17 years I worked for FoMoCo I fired A LOT of technicians over this. From 1st year green noobs to Senior Master Technicians. I wouldn't tolerate the ignorance.
Now the 3M green, yellow, and white bristle discs, which were supplied by simply asking for them are the perfect and intended tool for aluminum.
Thanks for the comments, it’s hard for some people to understand. I am making a follow up video on the 3m Roloc’s 🙏
If the heads that bad how would the aluminum block deck look, put the 2 together scary!
It would not look good at all.😥
I'm about to replay this video on my shop monitors for the next six months. Tired of telling techs this. What do you think of using those 3m roloc magic fingers?
I just got picked some up and am going to do a real world test . ill let you know.
High performance engines are one thing but to do this to the average Joe's work beater doesn't make sense. Most clients that bring in a vehicle with a bad head gasket won't be willing to pay for this not to mention waiting a week or two for the local machine shop to get it done when you can just take a scotch brite pad to it and have them back on the road the next day.
Having been in this industry for over 30 years, I have found that the best way to educate a customer is through a visual demonstration. I have yet to meet a customer ( whether a professional doing work for their own customer, or a diy client) who did not grasp the value of having the job done correctly the first time. If the head gasket is blown, we always recommend a pressure test to verify that the head is not cracked and also perform a warpage check ( especially with overhead cams!). Since our customers are already paying the book rate to R&R the head(s), the additional charge for the machine shop is money well spent.
I am curious, if the head has to come back off due to seepage, do you charge them again, or do you warranty your work?
@@elainesoliz2205 to be honest we've never had one come back yet. That being said if we didn't fix it the first time then that would be on us.
What about the 3M bristle disc?
I’m going to do a video and test them. Lots of tech’s agree with me and have told me that that’s what they use.
"not in imaginary scotchbrite life" - 😂😂😂
Worse is the bit you didn't mention. The same lazy mechanic will blow it off & slap it on, leading to lots of abrasive material going into the engine - it's impossible to get it all. General Motors actually has a TSB detailing the failure of a motor from using 'wizz wheels' like this. It degrades the pump and ruins bearings if the filter ever bypasses. It's usually aluminum oxide, which is nearly as hard as diamond.
Good point,👍 your right if it does hold a head gasket the damage from the grit can cost you an engine.👍👍👍
What a about a pad with elbow grease? Not using air tools
That would be ok.👍👍
In did not know that aluminum cylinder heads can be milled ...My 1999 Toyota Solara WorkShop manual say to throw away 1MZ-FE cylinder heads id that are not flat.
Most shops don’t straighten cylinder heads and manufactures aren’t necessarily on board that it can be done.
I wouldn't do that in the first place.
The carbide scrapers that I have clean 80-90% of the crap on the surface and then I follow up with brakleen and scotch brite pads with my hand. The flat rectangular stuff you buy in the kitchen section at the grocery store. It cleans up any other left over junk and brightens the head surface. I’ve seen the milling marks come through after I clean the remaining layers of adhesive/sealer on the surface with the brakleen and scotchbrite pads.
I saw a Pakistan Video where the mechanic scraped the head gasket off with a piston ring.
There are some cultures that believe if you change oil while its hot it will damage the engine. So that's not surprising.
I would always cringe when I'd see my buddies take a scotchbrite pad to a head. I would feel much more comfortable taking a sheet of 800grit, double sided taping the entire back side of the sheet evenly, then taping it flat to a granite surface plate. (Or granite counter top) Spray that sucker down with plenty of WD40 then lap the mating surface of the head in a figure 8 pattern using light, consistent pressure. Of course, if you have the time and money taking the head to a machine shop would be the best option.
Scotch brite has noting to do with what you’re talking about. The problem is people grinding on a surface when the have no clue what their doing.
But scotch brite is not the problem. Amutures are the problem
Why would you use a power tool in the first place? I see nothing wrong with using one by hand. Light pressure and good to go. You can’t move as fast as the machine which is why material is removed by using discs on a power tool.
👍
If you use your hand scotch bright is fine air tool is a no no
That's called a scotch -"LOC" Not "scotchbrite". I've been building cars and engine for 30 years and there nothing wrong with cleaning a surface with a actual "scotchbrite" cleaning pad like the ones used in the kitchen. If your surface ain't flat then it needs machine works, but just cleaning old gasket and dirt from a flat head surface can be done just fine with zero damage to the surface. A straight edge Is all you need to check for flat!
@5150on420 you are correct on the name and yes you can use scotchbrite on aluminum heads. I use it every day to clean aluminum. I use it on aluminum after it's been glass beaded, gives the aluminum a nice look. I forgot what they were called, I should have looked it up. I need to edit the video and change the title. Thanks for your feedback.
Well, you really don't know if that plane was already bad before hitting it with scotch brite. Not saying that you're wrong, but you do have to show a before and after, and what's acceptable and what's not regarding using abrasive to clean out the surface.
THE WHOLE DECK HEIGHT AND HEAD SURFACE AND DISTANCE FROM THE CRANK TO CAM HAS GOT TO BE THE ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION FOR MOST OF TODAYS TIMING SETS, WITH NO KEYWAYS AND NO POSITIVE DRIVE BUT BOLT TENSION AND FRICTION ITS CRAZY TO IMAGINE BUT MOST ALL NEWER ENGINES HAVE CAM SPROCKETS THAT WILL ROTATE INDEPENDANTLY OF THE CAM IF THE BOLT COMES LOOSE OR BREAKS. ITS FUCKIN REDICULOUS
Willie's loss
Our gain
Cigars toss
Temp pain
No if/butts
Scotch toss
Winona cuts
Dan's D boss
Real mechanics never use it on anything.
I use scotchbrite on heads all the time. Just dont be a fuckn idiot about it.
You didnt have to lie about this head tho
One mans opinion, not anything scientific here, could be cupping from heat cycling?
No the video shows it’s not that. That’s why I sprayed it blue so the you can see where I pointed that it’s not from over heating. This was a hard video to make because, I get it! No one want to see this or talk about it. Sorry it had to be done and because everybody does something wrong doesn’t mean it’s ok. Do people do this, yes 90% of the heads that come in here are like that. Doesn’t make it right. Does it work sure most of the time.