Do You Have to be Catholic to be Saved?
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 12. 2022
- Fr. Gregory Pine, O.P. shares what the Church really teaches about salvation outside the Catholic Church!
Also Check out Fr. Pine's new Podcast on Catholic Classic with Ascension 📚: ascensionpress.com/pages/cath...
📗 Fr. Pine's Brand New Book (get it and you're cool): amzn.to/3ylrUOJ
📚 Read Catholic Classics with Fr. Pine! ascensionpress.com/pages/cath...
🌞 Godsplaining Podcast: / godsplainingpodcast
💻 LINKS
Add Matt on Parler!: parler.com/mattfradd
Try Hallow for FREE!: hallow.com/matt
Website: pintswithaquinas.com/
Merch: teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd
📱 SOCIALS
Facebook: / mattfradd
Twitter: / mattfradd
Instagram: / mattfradd
Gab: gab.com/mattfradd
For me growing up: Protestant 'til my late teens. Atheist/Agnostic 20's-30's. 40's a return to the faith. I just turned 50 in October after what I call the spiritual "boomerang". After months of watching these videos and listening to some other Bishops and people of the Catholic faith, I want desperately to go through the RCIA. I hunger for the Eucharist, Baptism, all of it. Thank you for your channel and the amazing guests you have on your program.
Welcome home! Merry Christmas! ❤️
Let it be known to all: Through the Holy Spirit, God has put it on me to preach to those lost in the devil's deceit!
Hear me when I say, ye that are Catholic have been deceived and know not God. Ye worship Mary, praying to her; when God tells his to worship none other than him. It is idolatry.
Catholicism has its own Bible and teachings, which are blasphemous to the word of God: the Holy Bible. As ye follow the teachings of man and not God; ye hear the pope, but not Jesus, yet ye claim to be his disciples!
These are but a few things I named ye dwell within; there are many more. I tell you now to repent of your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit upon asking the Father!
There are *NO* sub-divisions of Christianity. You're either a disciple of Christ or not. A Christian is someone who follows God's word, not a religion. Who obey the Father and follow his will; not man's nor their own heart's. Unless you keep Jesus' commandments, think not the Holy Spirit will dwell within you!
They who heed this message and did what was stated with an open heart to God...
Read the Holy Bible (KJV) daily and every time before you read, pray to the Father and ask:
"Lord I ask that you give me understanding of your word, that I interpret it the way you want me to, and none of my own. I ask you in Jesus' name, amen."
Revelation 22:8-9 KJV
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Acts 2:38 KJV
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 11:13 KJV
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
John 14:21-24 KJV
21 *He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.*
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, *If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.*
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and *the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.*
3 John 1:11 KJV
11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. *He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.*
1 John 3:6-10 KJV
6 *Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.*
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: *he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.*
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.*
10 *In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,* neither he that loveth not his brother.
@@Call_Upon_YAH lol the horrific attempt at KJV-style English does more to undermine your heretical teaching than underscore it
@@Call_Upon_YAH Me thinks ye be the one deceived. Praying for you!
Mr. Pine is not an amazing guest, he is a heretic!
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino”, 1441:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”
It [the Holy Roman Church] condemns, rejects and anathematizes all who think opposed and contrary things, and declares them to be aliens from the Body of Christ, which is the Church.” (Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra)
St. Basil, Letter 257, 4th century: “Remember that it is not the multitude who are being saved, but the elect of God. Be not then affrighted at the great multitude of the people who are carried here and there by winds like the waters of the sea.”
I could quote many, many more solemn teachings that demolish this heretic's apostasy.
You need to become a real Catholic, look into MHFM's video vatican II council of apostasy on YT.
Remember to pray the rosary every day,
God bless you.
I could genuinely listen to Fr. Gregory forever. The man's a Saint on Earth. God bless him.
Mr. Pine is not a saint, he is a heretic!
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino”, 1441:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”
It [the Holy Roman Church] condemns, rejects and anathematizes all who think opposed and contrary things, and declares them to be aliens from the Body of Christ, which is the Church.” (Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra)
St. Basil, Letter 257, 4th century: “Remember that it is not the multitude who are being saved, but the elect of God. Be not then affrighted at the great multitude of the people who are carried here and there by winds like the waters of the sea.”
I could quote many, many more solemn teachings that demolish this heretic's apostasy.
You need to become a real Catholic, look into MHFM's video vatican II council of apostasy on YT.
Remember to pray the rosary every day,
God bless you.
Right? I wont even be sad if he suddenly dies because I know that man's going straight up
Great video! "To whom shall we go oh lord? For You have the words of eternal life"
"No one comes to the father but by me"
"Strive to enter through the narrow door, for many I tell you will seek to enter, but will not be able"
Merry Christmas and God bless Fr. Gregory Pine and the whole crew of Pints with Aquinas!
This was a very providential mean to me to revisit and revise the idea of salvation outside of the Holy Church. Thank you.
There are actually zero (nulla) people saved (salus) outside (extra) the Church (Ecclesiam).
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino”, 1441:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”
It [the Holy Roman Church] condemns, rejects and anathematizes all who think opposed and contrary things, and declares them to be aliens from the Body of Christ, which is the Church.” (Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra)
St. Basil, Letter 257, 4th century: “Remember that it is not the multitude who are being saved, but the elect of God. Be not then affrighted at the great multitude of the people who are carried here and there by winds like the waters of the sea.”
I could quote many, many more solemn teachings that demolish this heretic's apostasy.
You need to become a real Catholic, look into MHFM's video vatican II council of apostasy on YT.
Remember to pray the rosary every day,
God bless you.
Thank you Father for this extremely articulate and thorough exposition of the dogma "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus". I confess there are things I do not understand, so I simply trust what the Church teaches. It is clear to me that the Church has traditionally taught two things with regard to salvation of non Catholics:
1- there can be no good hope that they will be saved unless they explicitly renounce their false beliefs and at least intend to convert. See error number 17, condemned by Pius IX's Syllabus: "Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ."
2- It is POSSIBLE in some unknown way, for those who die as non Catholics, to be saved. As the doctrine "baptism of desire" implies, God's grace can transcend the visible limits of His Church. This is a doctrine the Church Father's clearly teach, and which I therefore believe in. A soul may have a mystical encounter with God just before death, unbeknown to anyone else, thereby allowing it to desire baptism or the true faith.
We should never categorically afirm that anyone is in Hell, with the possible exception of Judas, of whom Our Lord said it would have been better if he had never been born. We cannot know for sure what occurs between a soul and God in the final moments. Nor should we assume, or even expect, that a non catholic is saved. There is a difficult balance to maintain. On one hand we should avoid the modernist, indifferentism, which makes belonging to the One, true Church a dispensable luxury. On the other, we should also avoid unnecessary rigorism, condemning everyone who is not officially catholic. That's my five cents. God bless you all, and Merry Christmas!
Isn't that a bit of a contradiction though? Saying we should not condemn, but immediately prior you straight up said that we should not assume or expect that they will be saved (implying condemnation). It's a cheap escape hatch.
To say we should not expect or assume a non-Catholic to be saved condemns **billions** implicitly.
@@Gumbi1012 I don't think it's an escape hatch. Pius IX was very careful in his wording. He did not say all who die as non catholics are damned; he said we should not have a strong hope of their being saved, meaning that they are most likely lost, but there is always a slim chance that God could somehow perform a secret, last minute miracle.
Something else is worth adding. There is a doctrine that runs all through Church history, starting with Our Lord's own words, concerning the few who are saved. I believe a large majority of humanity will spend eternity in Hell. This doctrine is scary, yet well established. It ties in with Extra ecclesiam nulla salus, but we must also add to the list of the damned all the phony and lukewarm catholics. As baptized catholics, we must strive each day to avoid falling into this category, because nobody has a guarantee of heaven, until they leave this life.
Doesn't the Catholic Church affirm all of the Orthodox churches sacraments, meaning they can/will be saved according to Catholic theology as well?
@@chadpilled7913 Yes, the catholic Church admits the validity of the sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox churches, but that is not enough for salvation. They are in a state of schism, as they are formally separated from Rome. See this from the Council of Florence of 1442:
"[The holy Roman church] firmly believes, professes, and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics AND SCHISMATICS, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation."
@@Gumbi1012 You are correct. The heresy of baptism of desire contradicts dozens of dogmas. See the video baptism of desire buried on YT.
Awesome - so appreciate this short but very important teaching.
Thank you for your help. I truly need such guidance.
Excellent ! thank your Fr. Gregory
Merry Christmas Eve! Hope you have a wonderful midnight mass tonight y’all!
💥🙏⛪
Love it! Thank you Fr Gregory!
Awesome, father pine , merry Christmas
Awsome. I thought this video was going to be boring and it is deep. Gloria Patri.
Father - It seems like you were saying in the beginning of the video that Christ founded the Catholic Church and that everyone needs to belong to it to be saved, but you finished with stating that God's grace spills outside the bounds of the visible church and also acts in the Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim and Jewish faiths and that individuals in those faith traditions are only obliged to become Catholic if they believe the Church is who she says she is? Am I missing something? Your last point seems to contradict the missionary spirit with which thousands of souls sacrificed their lives to convert the masses. It seems the Church used to have more clarity on this issue in centuries past. I found this video more confusing than clarifying.
One God, One Faith, One Baptism… St Paul: I have been saved, I am being saved, and I hope I will be saved…
Hope or Faith in God's Word is not something like we use in modern English language i.e I hope my team wins the superbowl or whatever...Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
The Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:14)
I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe and am thankful that he came to die for our sins on the cross redeeming our souls and that he rose again on the third day defeating death. I am repentant and ask for the lord’s forgiveness. Why would he not have saved me?
I really appreciate your explanation of Baptism at 10:00 mark. It explains the balance between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Ghost very well.
Always keep in mind that God desires that every person be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. And always keep in mind that God expressed this truth by hanging from a cross in the body of Jesus out of love for sinners.
He above all desired the jews to be saved and of them he wept: "oh jerusalem! Jerusalem! How I would have gathered you together as the hen gathers her brood, but you would not believe"
And after 3 straight years of regularly preaching, healing and doing miracles to the jews so that they might believe he said:
" and he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’"
LOL many forsake their Birthright, and God hardens there heart and sends the operation of error
Very helpful
I have no excuse! I know the Catholic Church is the true body of Christ, and I cling to Mother Church for the sake of my soul and for the sake of my love for Jesus Christ (by His grace!). MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!
Not to be too confrontational, but could you explain to me how you know that? While I find the idea attractive, I've not been convinced by the Catholic or Orthodox authority claims. That said, if I believed such claims I'd likely end up Orthodox.
@@EmberBright2077 There's no point in explaining. One, it would take way too long, and two, ultimately people are not converted by reason, but by the Holy Spirit.
@@GrislyAtoms12 lol
If it's that complicated, I am thankful that I am a Baptist. Jesus' call was pretty simple (John 3:16), man has made salvation complicated, as this video clearly shows. No wonder Jesus never wrote anything. He didn't have to. His call was to love and follow him. Simple.
As far as The Church is concerned, all Christians are members of the Body of Christ...The Church.
Blessings to you all!
I desparately want to become a Catholic though, so much of its teachings I cannot submit to on account of my conscience guided by scripture. I have spent many hours in prayer, praying that God would reveal to me the truth but yet I still stand in my protestant roots because I am convinced by scripture of many of my denomination's teachings.
Read of the church fathers and the councils. Christ would not have arranged for a church weaker at the start with errors to be disputed in protest.
There are many things that Protestants have thrown out in favor of scripture arranged by post-resurrection Jews rather than post-resurrection Greek-literate Christians.
Keep soul searching. Remember that Israel means “one who wrestles with god” and the church militant is the new Israel. Keep wrestling internally, do not give up.
My family went from atheist(me) Mormonism(wife) to Catholicism for some of the reasons above.
I’ll be praying for you.
Scripture alone!
God bless you Father! you rock.
All true, I was taught in Catechism that if you die with any unconfessed mortal sin you are going to hell. How can you have any realistic chance of going to heaven if you never accepted Jesus as your savior and if you never had your sins forgiven through the blood and merits of Jesus Christ received through the sacrament of the Catholic Church, i.e. Confession, Baptism or Extreme Unction?
you dont, this priest is a modernist and doesnt even know it
I'm saved by grace...and is so easy and smooth and natural to do works for loving Jesus Christ God resurrected king died for me and for us.
The simple answer is yes.
Thats why I am Catholic!!! Lets help others to be saved!!!
I`m more like the sinner next to Jesus on the cross pretty wretched and completely dependent on his grace . I haven`t done Catechism or the Sacraments or done confession or believe in Mary the way Roman Catholics do or speak Latin and yet ..............I believe Jesus died for me and has accepted me . Every knee shall bow. I find it heart breaking that one set of believers is judging another. Surely ,the ultimate in sanctimonious self righteousness ! Let`s talk about Jesus !
he died under the Old Law, remember Jesus said "i go to prepare a place for you", and he said "dont touch me for i have no yet ascended to my Father"? so Heaven wasnt opened until Jesus ascended to Heaven so he could prepare it for us
The answer: YES
Amen
Trent
If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.
I PRAISE JESUS! Even as I’m struggling providing for my children. I will keep faith. I get harassed and called names simply for sharing my testimony and asking for prayers. But prayers are all I WANT. I fell on hard times because I was fired from my job as a social worker at Forsyth Hospital because I declined the vaccine. I was denied my medical/religious exemption. I declined because of my pre existing health condition lupus and heart disease. I wish I could go back to the hospital but unfortunately the mandate is still in place all hospitals workers must be vaccinated against covid 19 for hospitals that participate in Medicare and Medicaid. I’m waitressing AND I’m SO THANKFUL, but I’m not making nearly as much as I use too. My husband died years ago. I’m all alone, As a single mother with two autistic children things are so overwhelming on me because my boys require a lot from me. Every month is a struggle to pay bills and to put food on the table. BUT our Heavenly Father gives me courage to not give up because I want to. I’m so discouraged but even as I face homelessness almost every month and even as I get put down and mocked because of my situation and choice. I will keep faith in God! Please pray for me and my boys. God bless. Merry Christmas.
Wished you are in my state and country....But, God will help you. 🙏
I am from the state Meghalaya of India. I'll remember you in my prayers 🙏
Remember while you are being persecuted for your faith St Paul says be happy. It is so difficult I know, but the graces you will receive from God will be immense. Im not going into the stupidity on the rules of the vaccine etc, but you know God loves you and will guide you through this trial in your life. Keep strong by saying rosary too.
God Bless
Praying for you. Praying God will supply your needs, richly in Christ Jesus. Praying you and your children will never go hungry, or thirsty or not under your own roof. You did the right thing re. 💉. I'm praying our Lord will send people into your life, from your church, another church if need be, and amongst your community, to pray with you, and support you emotionally and practically - during this season of little. You are most likely depressed in this situation, caused by exhaustion and anxiety - do get this checked out and some help with that. As tough as it is, you have two children who love you...even though challenging - you have health - and this season, will pass, nothing stays the same.
'God will make a way, where there seems to be no way. He works in ways, we cannot see, he will make way for me. He will be my God, draw me close unto His side. With love and strength for each new day, God will make a way. God will make a Way'.
Dear sister, you are experiencing, what we all need to come to realise - God is all we really have. 🙏
This sounds like such a difficult situation to navigate, my prayers are with you, mama 😢Remember that the suffering you face now will only bring you closer to God, never lose hope ☺️
I might be dense or it might be the nature of Catholic teaching, but I hear yes/no/maybe on whether Protestants specifically can be saved. This video said a lot and was helpful to an extent but didn’t seem to clearly answer the question in a direct manner.
Yes.
"...with rigor and vigor." Gonna start using that.
The spirit blows where it will John 3:8
yes
So long as the east and west remain split, there is no basis for the argument that one must be Roman Catholic to be saved. The eastern church has just as valid, if not more compelling claim to be "the one true church" as the west. May we all pray for the reunion of the full body of Christ, at which point there will be no excuse for remaining outside the visible body of Christ.
yeah this priest is a heretic
Regarding Salvation
Let the WORD speak:
Yahushua/Jesus said to him
“I am the way, the truth and the life NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH ME”
John 14:6
“This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also wait for the SAVIOUR Master Yahushua HaMachiach / Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to himself.” Philippians 3:20-21
“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise Him up at the last day” John 6:40
Salvation is through the precious blood shed blood and finished work of Yahushua/Jesus our Master, Saviour and Redeemer. King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All glory and honour belongs to Him and Him alone.
Amen
The problem is that people outside the Church will receive the teaching of heretics but not of Christ and His Church. So that puts the lie to such people claiming that Jesus is their lord.
Yes
Faith AND Charity. Amen 🕊️
Around 9:30 he said that we need “faith but a living faith (charity)” he then describes charity (its seems) as a distinct and higher form of grace over and above faith. My understanding is that all three of the theological virtues (faith and charity being discussed here) are equal forms of condescending grace. Am I understanding this correctly (from the Catholic perspective)? Are they equal in power and substance?
ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the Gospel revelation or enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace, which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.”
Heresy
@@drjanitor3747 POPE PIUS IX, in 1863: “There are those, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest live and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer (allow) anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.
God forbid that the children of the Catholic Church should even in any way be unfriendly to those who are not at all united to us by the same bonds of faith and love. On the contrary, let them be eager always to attend to their needs with all the kind services of Christians charity, whether they are poor or sick or suffering any other kind of visitation.”
Fr Pine.
I do enjoy and learn from your presentations. So thank you.
I think it would be marvellous if you could refute the claim of universalists, including David Bentley Hart, that 'all will be saved'. By saying 'will' these people go much further than the Catholic Balthasar did.
The universalists are surely right in saying that, because we humans only live for a finite time, our sins can only be finite in number, severity and effect, and so an eternal, ie, infinite damnation, cannot be a just punishment. Justice, in human and humanly rational terms, has to involve proportion. That is, punishment has to be proportional to the number and gravity of sins committed. And as Hart points out, it is hard to imagine that a person doing something grievously sinful does it willingly and in full knowledge that it will condemn him forever. Such a person is acting and 'saying' that good is evil. And this is obviously wrong/irrational. Isn't such a person crazy? And crazy people, when they do crazily sinful things, are not acting sinfully because they lack adequate awareness and consent.
So it seems to be that the universalist position is arguable.
How say you??
If you can answer this one I will send you a wonderful bottle of shiraz:)
I have sympathy with universalism, namely in that at its best it desires to be a merciful position. God is merciful, and therefore there is something emotionally compelling about the idea all might be saved.
However, no one could dogmatically say that it is certain all men will be saved - nor that certainly only few will be saved. Opinion is far too divided on that point in the Tradition. Both sides have many quotes in their favors.
Moreover, there is only one factor about which there is true uncertainty regarding any man's salvation, and that is his own will. But it is such a crucial factor that certitude depends partly on knowing the will of every man, and only God knows this for sure. Even the individual, while he may know his will better than anyone other than God, still has factors outside of himself, such that he cannot be 100% sure of his disposition to God.
So the salvation of any man, and therefore of all men, really does rest foremost in 2 things: 1) with the Mercy of God, which is certain, and 2) with man's will to receive Divine Mercy.
The second point is the one Christ always stresses as of infinite importance to us. And that's my takeaway, no doctrine one way nor the other.
@@HolyKhaaaaan That's interesting Holy Khan, thank you. In his book, Hart gets pretty close to the Socratic position I think: that virtue=knowledge. So any wrongful, we would say sinful, act, is due to lack of knowledge/understanding. DBH seems to think that there is something wrong with our minds when we choose to sin. He does not go as far as saying that this means that we do not sin because we cannot sin, but he does say that an ultimate choice for evil over good cannot be rational. As the title of his book suggests, DBH takes the position that all souls will be saved. Of course, practically all souls must endure more or less time in purgatory (or hell) before salvation. DBH is a serious intellect, and both in the book 'That all shall be saved' and in his NT translation, including the notes, he mounts a pretty strong defence of the universalist position. It's not just a case of which bits of holy scripture one selects for emphasis, but looking, as Hart does, at the etymology of key terms in the selections that each side relies upon.
@Christopher Coney: very well argued. I shall be very surprised if your queries will be satisfactorily answered in such a way that will require you to hand over the bottle of shiraz any time soon.
💗
Hi Father
So to conclude.... In order to be saved you must be a Catholic or in the process of becoming one if you die in the process. Correct?
Put simply, in order to be saved, you must be in a state of grace at your death. You ordinarily get into that state by: believing, repenting, and getting baptized (when you first convert); then if you sin mortally: believe again, repent again, and confess. All of this is from the moving of the grace of God and is only possible because of Jesus. It is the Catholic Church’s mission to facilitate this on earth in a visible way with the sacraments (visible signs of invisible grace). No church, no sacraments, no salvation.
I imagine the Church is like Noah’s Ark, something ordained by God and built upon a man to survive the watery chaos of the world. The Church is the body of Christ, and Jesus is the head. You cannot separate the head from the body. The baptized are members of the body like passengers on the Ark, or like the branches grafted onto the vine. Jesus came first and foremost to redeem human nature, not necessarily you as a private individual. Jesus will raise the church, and you being in the church would be raised.
On the Catholic paradigm, Catholicism is the fullness of divinely revealed truth, and it’s dangerous to remain in a state where any amount of lies are present. It’s dangerous such that it’s easier to be led astray, however it’s not impossible to know the truth that has been revealed to you and act in accord with it. If the truth is found in Catholicism, to follow the truth, even if you’re not an explicit member, would make you an implicit member of the Catholic Church, grafted onto the body of Christ. If a truth has been revealed to you and you reject it, this is to reject the Catholic Church, and to reject the Church is to reject the Head, thus there is condemnation.
With all this said, I think it’s appropriate to say, yes, you do have to be Catholic to be saved.
@@killianmiller6107 Can you give me the infallible list of all possible mortal sins, according to the Roman Catholic
@@killianmiller6107 Thank you so much! Im a Catholic I'm 73 years old and I've had this discussion with priests and they believe that you don't have to be a Catholic to be saved. We can go on and on. I bought the Catechism of Trent. That Catechism came before the modernists and their changing things.
Thank you again and from this day forward you are in my prayers. Thank you!
I think my point is that yes, you do have to be Catholic to be saved, but it’s also possible to be implicitly Catholic even though it’s not outwardly evident. You may need to ask what the priest means when he says “you don’t have to be Catholic,” because I think it’s true that someone who is outwardly a Protestant, Muslim, or atheist etc could genuinely be following the rays of truth that have been revealed to them (through conscience for instance), and God is merciful upon those who didn’t know him through no fault of their own. Thus it’s proper to say non Catholics can be saved, but only by virtue of an implicit membership, and probably with lots of purgation. I think of Luke 12 where the servant who didn’t know his master’s will is beaten lightly, but not thrown out. This doesn’t mean we should leave people where they are, because it is much more dangerous to live outside the church, ignorant or not.
@@killianmiller6107 Thank you that's pretty much what I thought.
TL;DR
Yes, as is the will of the one, true only God: the Father Who willed it, the Son Who instituted it, and The Holy Ghost Who guides His one, only true Church.
Do I understand correctly that no marriage consecrated outside of the Roman Catholic Church is valid ? Does it follow that my parents, wrongly believing themselves to have been united as husband and wife by the United Methodist Church, now both in their 90s, have lived in sin and fornication for sixty years and all of their children are illegitimate ?
no the Church will accept them, depending on certain principles.
can you provide the link to the specific Godsplaining episode you referenced?
found it! czcams.com/video/N91s5Hukmgs/video.html
Hope this link works, not sure if you can link stuff in yt comments but here's the episode:
m.czcams.com/video/N91s5Hukmgs/video.html
Peter Diamond vs Greggory Pine let’s go.
Dimond, no “a” in there. But yes, that would be a great debate.
I have to be christian tobe saved
I sincerely listened and I’ve been reading and learning Scripture my entire 45 years of life, I grew up in the “Church.” So anyway coming from a non-Catholic Christian congregation.
Im not sure if I understand this explanation.
Basically, I don’t understand this explanation.
The question of can one be saved if they reject the Catholic Church?
You didn't really answer the prompt, instead you just provided a basic rundown of catholic soteriology, post Vatican 2. If the bounds of the invisible church are, as you say, unclear, then by definition so are those of the visible body
So the answer was... Yes? Informative video, but I didn't catch the actual answer
What a clear and acceptable statement of what BELIEF is all about- those who believe anything will believe anything. And all faiths/creeds/religions flow therefrom. And good luck with that!!! Have a good day. Have a good eternity.
Based.
1 John 4:7-12: Beloved, let us love one another because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten of God and has knowledge of God. The person without love has known nothing of God, for God is love.
God’s love was revealed in our midst in this way: he sent his only Son to the world that we might have life through him.
Love then, consists in this: not that we have loved God, but that he has loved us and has sent his Son as an offering for our sins.
Beloved, if God has loved us so, we must have the same love for one another. No one has ever seen God. Yet if we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.
Wow, this was so good. 🤯
I’ll save you the time of the entire video. Yes. Yes you do.
Is any of this true though? I missed that part
The short answer is Yes.
@sophia stone did you even listen to his talk???
@sophia stone Okay, I understand.
And the even shorter answer is No.
Or maybe you thought (in Latin), coolus, or yikorum
What does it mean that the Catholic church subsists in Church of Christ? Aren't they the same thing?
Did you listen to the surmon of St Luis de Marie
I have heard Catholic priests say no one outside the Catholic church is saved. I have heard Orthodox priests say no one outside the Orthodox church is saved including Roman Catholics. I have heard Protestant pastors say they are saved and all Catholics Roman and Orthodox are not. The Bible warns against judging, that is saying who will be saved and who will not. I think anyone who repents, has faith in Christ, and does his will can be saved. I would not say someone is not saved simply by the church they belong to.
What is difference between judging and predicting?
@@johnyang1420 One is definite and one is not.
You have no idea what you are talking about
1 Corinthians 6
1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things of this world?
4 If therefore you have judgments of things pertaining to this world, set them to judge, who are the most despised in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so that there is not among you any one wise man, that is able to judge between his brethren?
The saints will judge the World and the Angels, if you are not judging them you have no Justice in you. and clearly not a saint.
Christ did say a bit more than that though - Mark 16:16 says we need to be baptised. Luke 13.3 says we have to repent and John 6:54 says we have to partake of the Eucharist and believe it is Christ's body and blood. All of these are administered in the Roman Catholic Church, via validly ordained priests but only the latter is truly believed by Catholics (by Orthodox too, but no one else).
Basiclly, you have to be catholic to be saved. Even if God saves you using extraordinary means(baptism of desire or blood while you are still alive) you are still incorporated to the Catholic Church having knowledge of the truths of the faith. Everyone is catholic in heaven by definition.
You think the salvation of God is dependant on which old man from the early middle ages, or late roman era, you agree with?
I think you misunderstood, the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of the baptism of other Christian Denominations that uses the trinitarian formula (i.e. "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of teh Son, and of the Holy Spirit). What the "Church" means in the context of the sentence "outside the church there is no salvation" is the "Mystical body of Christ" or all the baptized Faithful.
Basically:
Church = Mystical body of Christ = All baptized Faithful.
What the Phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla Salus" means is that if someone does not willingly believe in Christ, they will not receive Salvation. I hope this helps.
Well you a somewhat mistaken, the Catholic Church alone is the Mystical Body of Christ, anyone who is validly baptized is connected to the Catholic Church if they suffer from invincible ignorance. However the Church has made very clear that those who refuse to enter into the Catholic Church because of any other reason BUT invincible ignorance will not be saved(Cantate Domino, etc…). Simple ignorance is not enough either, because you can be ignorant of your own fault and thus be damned, especially in this time of information.
@@jackhohne6163 invincible ignorance is a false teaching
There are councils that contradict you
But what if an athiest shows more charity and love for others than a believer...isn't he closer to God than the believer? Remember the parable of the sheep and goats.
I think that means the atheist is closer to a truer believer in works than other so-called believers or struggling believers, not closer to God. Ultimately, there's nothing compelling an atheist to do so. They can be charitable or be selfish. Neither are right or wrong. Where faith differentiates these things is believing that goodness exists, that truth is more than concept but something quite tangible. When that faith is part of your life, then it connects you to that good, meaning it's harder to give up on charitable (or other virtues) say when challenges arrive. That's not to say believers don't have days of doubt or challenge, but that root faith connection to God can provide a steadier foundation in one's day to day lives, and that's before considering the broken bonds of sin and salvation from death by the accomplishment of Jesus Christ.
How does it matter if he doesn't love the God of all creation?
@@starfire451 If tax collectors and prostitutes can be closer to the kingdom of God than the Pharisees and Sadducees, why can't some athiests be closer to that kingdom than some who claim to be Catholic?
You're putting too much thought into this.
Atheism is a mortal sin. You do not receive merit for your works of charity in a state of mortal sin.
You are not saved by your works.
A fourteen minute video that coudla been just a "no". 🤣
@Kate Moore fair enough
It's worth fighting for. So party on haha
Finally! This is the first time I've heard any Catholic say what I've been saying. Except he said it 427,000 times better.
Revelation 18:4
No such thing as Baptism of Desire or Baptism of Blood
Council of Florence
Ex Cathedra
It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.
Can 2 on baptism council of trent: "if anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and therefore reduces to some sort of metaphor the words of our lord Jesus Christ: "unless one is reborn of water and the spirit" let him be anathema
"If anyone holds that some are able to come to the grace of baptism through God's mercy, but others through their own free will, one shows that one has departed from the correct faith. For one does not acknowledge that free will is corrupted in such a way that one cannot attain salvation on his own, without divine revelation" can 8 on grace second council of orange (from st augustine)
"In any necessity whatsoever (baptism) so that it not redound the loss of our soul if, after those who desire it are denied the font of salvation, when he departs this world, loses both his life and the kingdom of heaven." Pope Siricus
"She firmly believes, professes and preaches that "none of those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans(muslims)" but also Jews, heretics, and schismatics (orthodox) can become sharers of eternal life, but they will go into eternal fire "that was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before the end of their life they are joined to her. And the unity of the church is of such great importance that the churches sacraments are beneficial toward salvation only for those who remain within her, and only for them do fasts, almsgiving and other acts of piety and exercises of Christian discipline bring forth eternal rewards. "No one can be saved, no matter how many alms he has given, and even if he sheds his blood for the name of christ unless he remains in the bosom and unity of the catholic church" council of Florence dogmatic bull cantata domino.
Sounds like the council of Trent damned millions of people to hell. Thank God Vatican 2 overturned that lol
friend they think that the water portion is only related to water baptism, this one for Sacraments is better.
Trent
Sacraments
If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.
also the Dimonds are very good Theologians but they are still Heretics.
There are still some things im iffy about...like the veneration of icons and marry, the rosary, prayers to the saints or intercession of the saints, purgatory...but the eucharist, im begging to believe more and more i just gotta read into it more.
With that being said, i was a catholic as a kid, did my own thing, then Protestant, now im wondering about Catholicism and orthodoxy. So then, am i saved if i stay in Protestant? I feel like i wont be.
My thought is that as long as the church is split between east and west that you don’t. As a Protestant I’m very open to orthodox faith but have some problems such as the canon, the necessity of intercession. Tho if the west and east joined undoubtably I’d leave Protestantism but immediately but I’d say to say it’s better to 5:31 take your time on making decisions and research. Being ignorant (not in a rude way) for the sake of urgency isn’t really what the Bible teaches which is what we promote when we say that if you aren’t a part of my church then you are saved.
@@dezznutts1197 I'm having a tough time understanding your comment. You're saying that I don't switch churches unless I've done enough research, right?
And are you saying that one isn't saved if they aren't of a certain church?
@@gordo13371 I’m saying you should study and understand the church you’re joining before converting. And I think that the true church isn’t here right now because it is divided from ortho, Catholic, Protestant, oriential, Assyrian. So I don’t think people can say salvation is based on if you are Catholic, orthodox, Protestant.
Everyone wants to be righteous, and know because they have accepted certain dogmas or participate in a certain organization that they will be saved. Who am I to know? But it seems clear to me that, Catholic, Christian, or otherwise, if one loves and seeks goodness, and loves others as much as his or herself, then they have followed Jesus’ commandments. Those two alone are enough of a challenge to really live, every day, than any rites or professions of belief, which appear to me a means to the ends. It’s a sort of extrapolated legalism that obfuscates a message of profound simplicity and challenge. I’m not arguing that scholarship and study are unimportant, nor that all roads lead to Rome, but we can confuse our cart for the road.
We don't by the use of our reason figure out what saves us. Jesus told his apostles very clearly what saves us: "go therefore to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit, he who believes and is baptized will be saved, he who believes not will be damned"
So all those who rejected what the apostles taught and were not baptized were damned. And we will be damned if we do not follow the teachings of Jesus as he gave it to his apostles.
Hope this helps!
There’s what the apostles taught, and then there is what later thinkers added. How do we separate added wisdom from added complication?
@@NathanPK that's a good question and many saints have answered, that doctrine is giving by God to christ, and christ to the apostles and from the apostles to the bishops throughout the centuries.
They teach that this "doctrine" (think divinity of jesus, or the trinity) is always stated as the same, in the same way and in the same sense.
The teaching of jesus doesn't change, and when you study doctrine you can see that it doesn't change. It remains unchanged, but obviously questions about that doctrine come up that need clarification. And based on scripture and tradition the church guards the understanding of the doctrine when these questions come up. I can give examples if you like.
I hope this helps
That’s a kind offer. I wouldn’t ask you to try to type a whole essay into here, but if you have a hyperlink to an example, I will read it.
@@NathanPK one example is the doctrine of the trinity. So the apostles handed down the teaching of the divinity of Christ and the worship of the father the son and the holy spirit. That was apparent in liturgical rites of mass and baptism and orders right from the get go. There were however apocryphal writings, basically fake gospels written by heretics that seemed to claim that there were 3 Gods, there were also people who claimed that Jesus and the holy spirit were not God as well as several other misunderstandings. The problem is the tradition told the fathers that the three persons were God but also they didn't worship three God's. Scripture gives evidence for this, but it doesn't spell it out exactly.
So the bishops of the various churches got together and discussed the issue and wrote to all the bishops stating what the trinity is and what it's not. See dionysius letter from 259, or the council of nicea or damasus I to all the eastern bishops 366. It took several centuries and several councils to root out the errors that came up just on this one topic. It also took several centuries for the bishops to get together and say exactly what books were scripture, and what books were phony nonsense.
As you can see this isn't a small issue. If a person doesn't believe that Jesus, is the incarnate son of God, one in being with the father and the holy spirit, that man doesn't have the faith. Jesus told us to believe in him and his word and if the bishops didn't sort out what books contained his word and which books came up by evil men who wanted to twist the truth we would all be in the dark because at this point we wouldn't even have the holy Bible to refer to.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
You can probably see
The answer is: yes. Anything else is heresy.
My salvation is thru Yeshua! It’s a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit!
Jesus in Hebrew
He told you to eat His flesh and drink His blood. If you love Him, you will obey Him!
“Personal relationship” not in bible
Yes we need a personal relationship with God. But does this give us licence to do what ever we desire ? Does not God direct our hearts and efforts to give him praise in a way that is most beneficial for us?
If I weren't Catholic, I'd look for the Church that the world despises, for the world despised Jesus, and he would be there. - Fulton Sheen
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.". Things seemed to be going pretty well. That is until Jesus said “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood,dwelleth in me, and I in him.” This was too much for many of his disciples and “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.” Jesus turns to the 12 and asks, “Will ye also go away? Vs 61, Jesus did not back down, for He said, "Does this offend you?" it offends protestants. They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Jn 20:21, "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
Jn 17:18, "Even as thou hast sent Me into the world, so I have sent them into the world."
Jn 17:22-23, "And the glory that thou hast given Me, I have given to
Matt. 28, 18-20: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye, therefore. and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."
"Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior," or "Ask Jesus into your heart" isn't the biblical answer.
It’s important to be saved from hell, damnation, and the stain of original sin, but what are we saved for? We are saved for union with Christ. Our salvation began when we were born again through baptism and God’s own Divine Life was restored in our souls, making us like Adam and Eve were in the Garden before the Original (first) Sin. As we go through life, we are united with Christ through the Sacraments he left as gifts for us, especially through Penance (forgiveness of our sins committed since Baptism) and the Eucharist (partaking of God’s own Life, His own Divine Nature, 2 Peter 1:4) - until that day when we are truly united with Him in heaven.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell. (For the teaching on venial (non-deadly) and mortal (deadly) sins, see 1 John 5:16-17)
What I must do to be saved:
*I must be baptized with water and the Spirit. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21. (Exceptions: [1] If I desire Baptism but die before I can be baptized with water and the Spirit, God accepts my desire to be baptized, and [2] If I am killed (martyred) because of my faith, but I have not had the opportunity to be baptized, God accepts my death as my baptism, called the Baptism of Blood).
* I must do the will of God the Father. Matthew 7:21
* I must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, 1 Timothy 6:14, and others.
* I must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27. Phil 1:29, and others.
* I must be a member of God's true church. Acts 2:46-47.
* I must confess my sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9, John 20:19-23
* I must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
* I must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16-17, 11:23-30.
* I must do unto others as I would have them do unto me and love my neighbor as myself. I must feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison or give other aid to those in need. Luke 10:33 ff, Mt 25:31-46. "Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are very pleasing to God" Hebrews 13:16. Good works don’t save us, but we will be judged by them.
*I must strive to be holy. "Strive for peace with everyone and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14
*I must endure (persevere) to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
And ... ? What else must I do?
Catechism
#432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."😜😜
Is it right to think that non-catholics could be saved by God's grace, but having been saved they will have to be catholic in heaven?
Not only Catholics are saved but everyone who is saved is Catholic.
@@markushill8639 But not Roman Catholic
Yes, everyone in heaven is catholic cause they will see God and know God, thus the revealed truth.
@@Wgaither1Roman Catholics too
If Catholicism is true, I suppose so.
Perhaps Father Pine could comment on the possibilities, or lack thereof, for infants who die unbaptized. It appears that the Council of Florence consigns them to damnation: "The souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."
This is a wicked teaching that caused many pain and despair or hundreds of years.
There's Limbo. It's a place that certain mystics have seen where children kind of go in waiting. There has to be as I understand a type of baptism that occurs, but yes. They go home.
@@hopefull61256 that a true teaching, you cannot by any means widen the road to Salvation, your comment disgusts me.
@@Ian-dn6ld Limbo is in Hell
@@sleepystar1638 so countless babies are in hell?
Today some Evangelists said I will go to hell because I am Catholic. Today is Christmas. That was their Christmas greeting for me.
They are just as wrong, as the catholics saying protestants will go to hell, because they are protestant.
@@JezielProdigalSon Thanks for your comment. They actually scared me. I only wish to be faithful to God in the first place. And sometimes it is hard to know what God wants.
Christ's Mass
@@serafinatruth4029 I am protestant and i will say to you: God bless you and merry christmas.
Welcome to how it feels to be a a God fearing Protestant in Catholic circles.
Sorry. What was the answer to the question posed in the title? This was impossible for me to grasp.
I think the answer is you have a better chance of being save if you’re in the Catholic Church rather than outside. It is best to be a member of Christ’s Body, the Church rather than be apart from Him. Rejecting the Church would be rejecting Jesus Himself because the Church is His Body Col1:18 and in Scripture John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Since the Church is Christ’s Body and Jesus is the Head then the Church would also be the way, the pillar of truth 1Tim3:15, and the life John15:5
The simple answer is: Yes - by grace, through faith, fruitful in God's work, there is salvation .. from the reward due to sin .. in no other name than Christ (which Name we receive in the Church, i.e. Himself at One with His Bride). What that means - in practice - is also simple, but rather more complex .. e.g. what it means to be In Christ, a member of His one body with one spirit, the defining characteristics of that assembly (aka church): one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and whether or not it is absolutely necessary to affirm the doctrines of the Church presented as matters of Faith, moreover, in theory and practice, even if impaired, does one of necessity also have to accept the communion of God's beloved called to be saints at Rome (and any jurisdictional authority involved) .. in the Lord, Jesus, the same yesterday, today and for each tomorrow ..
One perspective looks solely at the jurisdictional matter of communion, another may perceive that impairment of this legal tie may not, of itself, negate that communion, and a third may focus on the natural and thus also the supernation exceptions that may arise, in law, practice, latent capacity or actual ability to fulfil these requirements. It is all that simple, like the Faith itself, and indeed as the substantial reality of God Himself, the one supreme spiritual being, complete in all perfection, known to us through His Self-revelation as 'I Am Who Am' = Father, Son and Holy Ghost, one God, through all the times of times.
Yo!
Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek.
God bless.
Fr Pine thank you for making this video.
Over the years I have been drawn to the teachings of Fr. Leonard Feeney as being both logical and consistent with how Popes and Saints have taught the Faith for centuries… would you or Matt be willing to have an open and honest conversation with someone from the Benedict Center or a group like that?
Except that, a decade before Vatican II, he was excommunicated for heresy.
I'm sure it would be an interesting point to debate, whether one strictly has to be a visible part of the Body of Christ to be saved. But it seems even Thomas Aquinas, not to mention Augustine, already have provided adequate reasons it's possible to be saved without explicitly being Catholic.
Fr Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience, he refused to attend his heresy trail without being told what the specific charges were, he died in full communion with the Church , many people are misinformed about the particulars regarding Fr Feeney
@@alexsullo9855 @Alex Sullo Yes he was ex-communicated for disobedience but if you read the letter from the Holy Office regarding his view on Extra Ecclesiam Nullas Salus, he was criticised for his view, I can send you if you want.
Besides Pope Pius XII also taught baptism of desire, and the concept of invicible ignorance and being a part of the Church by desire was taught by Pope Pius IX (Invicible ignorance) and St. Alphonsus Ligouri even called baptism of desire "de fide", meaning a part of the Catholic faith, and St. Robert Bellarmine also taught longing for the Church gives an exernal union union and so on. As St. John Henry Newman putted it: "Belonging to the soul and not the body".
So we can find a lot of sources on viewing baptism differently than Fr Feeney did. Just baptism of blood is a clear concept for the Early Church fathers. What do you think of that?
I recommend checking out this article: traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Information/Baptism_of_Desire.html
Michael Lofton with Reason and theology too has good sources on this you can check out.
Yes, Fr Feeney's rejection of so-called baptism of desire is the true Catholic position.
However, Mr. Pine is not a validly ordained priest since he was "ordained" by a invalidly consecrated bishop and in the invalid new rite.
You should pray the rosary each day and look into MHFM's video Vatican II council of apostasy on YT to be saved. They also have plenty of proof that demolishes BoD, such as the video Baptism of Desire Buried.
God bless you.
As a Protestant I have had several sedevacantists or rad trad types say I am not saved. I point to Vatican 2 teaching "separated brethren", recognized baptism if done in proper Trinitarian formula etc. and they say this is modernist teaching and or Vatican 2 is just pastoral or something (not theologically binding).
Sedevacantists and some rad trads do not recognize the validity of Vatican II. So quoting the council documents will get you nowhere. Also keep in mind that some rad trads and sedevacantists are feenyites. Who deny the baptism of desire , which is heretical.
Adam I thinks Vatican two said In ways only known to God He gives ALL MEN THE GRACE TO BE SAVED ALSO HERE IS THE BIG ONE THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT THE GREAT RESTORATION GOD SAYS AT THE END OF TIME I WILL DRAW ALL THINGS BACK TO MYSELF. JESUS DIDN'T FAIL ON THE CROSS HIS FINAL WORDS MEANT PAID IN FULL I HEARD A CATHOLIC PRIEST SAY THAT ONE GOOD FRIDAY BLESS YOU 🏴🙏
You have a duty seek and accept the truth. Once you open to the truth, the natural conclusion will lead you into Christ's visible Church. You do not have invincible ignorance.
I have already studied and sought whether Roman Catholicism is "the truth " and after 11 years of diligent study my conscience, intellect, prayer etc. All still tells me exclusive Roman Catholic claims i.e the papacy, infallibility and RC as "the one true church with the fullness of the truth and faith" is false. The trick in the official Catholic language is that it says paraphrase anyone "knowing" that the Catholic Church is "the one true church" and refuses to enter in. Obviously the truthfullness of the claims is the very thing in question so a Non Catholic Christian Obviously wouldn't "know" because they don't believe those things to be true...your reference to "invincibly ignorant" is something different altogether not particularly relevant to what I'm discussing.
The idea among catholics that protestants can be saved is not unique to the Vatican II period despite gaining popularity after Vatican II. I had a religion book in high school published in the 1920's that said Protestants can be saved on account of what they do believe in catholic teaching.
FGP dropping knowledge 📖🏀🗑️
This all sounds needlessly convoluted.
The One Holy, and Apostolic Catholic Church. That which is holy cannot be made unholy, no matter who is in charge of the earthly house,God controls the Ghost. St. John the Beloved, pray for us.
not according to Christ
I hear what you are saying, but I don't see an evangelical spirit when I visit my local parish. When I ask Catholics there if they have ever invited their friends, neighbors, or family who need Jesus to church. They say no. Is there a study on what percentage of converts are non-religious, religious or protestant christian. My guess would be 5% non, 10% religious, 85% Protestant. If that is the case ( I don't know if it is ) Then the evangelical protestants are doing all the ground work, and the catholics just sit on there thumbs hoping and waiting from that 1 protestants out of thousand who values history to show up at the parishes door steps. Ill still visit my wonderful parish and ask around if they feel the call to evangelize. ( I do get some positive responses, but not many )
that is because the hierarchy for the Catholic Church has Apostatized. Doesnt change the fact that the Catholic Church is the Real Church.
Rev 21:12 - And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Something to consider - none of the 12 gates above are named after any Christian denomination of which there are approximately some 45,000 or any world religion.
Our citizenship is in Heaven (Phil. 3:20) and our identity is in Christ not in a denomination.
Galatians 3:28
“There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3
29 And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise
Christians are the New Jews
I think W. C. Fields would've liked this. A noted atheist, friends were surprised to discover Fields on his deathbed searching through the Bible. He explained: “I'm looking for a loophole.”
I’m encouraged to hear an actual Catholic teach historic Catholicism. And I equally thankfully that I am not a Catholic. Faith through grace in Christ alone for the glory of God alone.
Try RCIA…..you will be delighted
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB1995
I’ll stick to what God says
You need a lesson in logic. If you reject the Faith of the apostolic Church, and cling to a newly invented 'faith' which blatantly contradicts the historic Faith, how can this other 'faith' save you as it would be false by definition?
@@CCiPencil Except that you don't accept reproof or correction or training in righteousness, do you? You have no doubt made some heretic, or some group of heretics, or your own self the standard of orthodoxy, and nowhere does it say "in the Bible" that you can do this. The Bible says that Jesus established the one Church to teach the one Faith to all nations. The Bible does not say to "read the Bible" and come up with your own interpretations which contradict Christ's Church, does it? It says that the Church is the "pillar and bulwark of truth," not you, not Martin Luther, not Pastor Billy Bob, not some idiotic anti-Catholic website, etc.
@@MillionthUsername I don’t fear your words or your teachings cause I have the Holy Spirit in dwelling within me. He enables me to understand the simple and clear teachings found within His words. His word also teaches that the Church isn’t just a physical institution but a spiritual one made up of all believers. The Church is the body of Christ, not some legalistic, pharisaical man made institution. Repent of your your “church’s” false teachings and follow Christ not some “vicar”.
In my opinion Catholic is just wrong but the USA allows me to believe that and you if you’re Catholic to believe in the Pope and the Catholic Doctrine. I wish you the best and pray that you find truth .
God Forgives and Loves EveryOne! Jesus Taught..Lived and Died to teach us the principle of Forgiveness..the Highest form of Love. When You Forgive you are Saved and Freed and it is the quickest Way to Peace! 😇 That is why Jesus Said..on the Cross “Father..Forgive them..for they know not what they do.” We ALL don’t know what we do..to one degree or another. Forgiveness is the Only Solution! 😊
Well, not everyone, that would be universalism
@@EmberBright2077 I know Christians think only they will be Saved..but God Will Save whoever He Chooses! God is God and we are Not! I prefer to believe everyone is Loved and Forgiven.
@@kathleenwharton2139 Except for Jesus explicitly saying that he alone is the way, and the stated importance of the great commission, and Jesus explaining how the way to the kingdom of heaven is a narrow gate, and Jesus explaining in great detail the kinds of people that will be cast into hell. God is God, but he can't actually choose arbitrarily. That would be breaking his own laws and thus a flaw in his holiness.
@@EmberBright2077 you Need to read your Bible again and this time read about Jesus. He Healed..Loved and Forgave EveryOne and He tells us to Do the Same. He Loved Samaritans (Isrealites most hated enemies)..centurions servant..Roman soldiers..prostitutes..lepers..etc. he Came to Save Sinners from the self-righteous (that would be you). Christians are the New Pharisees. We are All Sinners Saved by Gods Grace. Hell is for those that believe in it! Judge Not..that you not be judged.
@@kathleenwharton2139 I fail to see how the examples you provide are in contradiction with mine. Jesus did all those things, and also called people to repent, and warned them very firmly about hell.
Also, Jesus did not come to save sinners from the self righteous (I also don't know why you're calling me that), he came to save them from their sin.
Also if hell is for those who believe in it, then not only does that contradict the idea that no one is going to hell, but it also implies that all atheists are saved and almost all Christians are condemned. That's a little bit strange.
As for the often misunderstood "judge not lest ye be judged", I don't know why you're bringing that up since judgement has nothing to do with the conversation, but not only is this quote contextualised by explaining the actual problem (hypocritical judgement), it is also a quote by the same man who commanded us to judge with righteous judgement, and it is also the same man who judged people all the time, and has stated that in his second coming, he will come to judge the world.
12:34 - 12:41🤔🤔
As per the classic "The Meaning of Grace" by Cardinal Charles Journet: Anthropologists tell us that, surprisingly, half the people who ever lived were born before Christ. They figure it amounts to about 50 billion souls! Strict EENS would mean that all of them outside the Mosaic Law were automatically doomed. That would be equivalent to the heresy of Calvin's "UNconditioned predestination and reprobation." It would in turn be a denial of one of God's perfections, his justice. St. Paul in Romans allows the possibility of salvation for those who haven't heard the Gospel. Because God's will was revealed through the Natural Law (of right and wrong) written on their consciences. That when such a person was confronted with a moral choice and obeyed their conscience, a defacto 'baptism of desire' took place. Because God is utterly simple, his will is identical with his essence. Such a person seeking to do "the good" written by God on their conscience accepted God's will and received a baptism of desire. Now that's a lot looser than sacramental salvation, but God was a lot more lenient before the coming of Christ and the New Law. Even with those under the Mosaic Law which itself was salvific. Recall the shenanigans of the King David and Solomon with multiple wives. And dare we mention the patriarchs? Which is why the CCC 846-848 allows for potential salvation outside the church for those honestly seeking and obeying the truth.
Having said that, if salvation is still difficult for those under the New Law with the sacraments, how much harder will it be for those outside the church. Which is why evangelization is crucial.
The Church teaches very clearly that the mosaic law was not conditional for salvation, the mosaic law was given as an aid to the jews who after their long period in Egypt were unable to follow properly the natural law. But after the fall of man neither the natural law nor the mosaic law actually granted salvation, both the good and the bad went to hell after death, the damned went to the depths of hell reserved for the devils, and those of good will who followed the natural light of reason or if they were jews observed the law and its ordinances and by the grace of God had genuine repentance for sins (think of kind David weeping over his sin) these went to the "limbus patrem" where they awaited Christ's decent into hell where he preached the gospel to them and applied the merits of his passion so that they could be liberated.
Hope this helps!
@@TheWavelengthStudios Good comment, what this guy said.
the Catholic Church alone is the Mystical Body of Christ, anyone who is validly baptized is connected to the Catholic Church if they suffer from invincible ignorance. However the Church has made very clear that those who refuse to enter into the Catholic Church because of any other reason BUT invincible ignorance will not be saved(Cantate Domino, etc…). Simple ignorance is not enough either, because you can be ignorant of your own fault and thus be damned, especially in this time of information.
Invincible ignorance isn't Ex Cathedra
the roman catholic church has so many dogmas that one has to accept that makes many not join it.
Here is the Mystery of God. The Bible says, The Kingdom of God is within you. Partaking the Lord's Supper on earth will be the precursor of Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven-Revelation 19:6-9 Blessed are those invited.
I was hoping you would reference and quote Dominus Iesus, (Salvific Universality of Jesus and the Church, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), the most forgotten authoritative letter on this subject.
If You Forgive..You are Saved from Hell! Jesus IS Forgiveness. He Taught..Lived and Died to Show us how Important this Principle is!
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and EAT WITH HIM, and HE WITH ME. Jesus said , without eating my Body THERE IS NO LIFE IN YOU. The Bible says, The Kingdom of God is within you. So partaking the Lord's Supper on earth we are experiencing the Kingdom of God in our Body. Lord's Supper on earth; Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven. Mystery of God.
Islam also teaches that only Muslims will be saved and that those who reject or die outside of Islam will suffer torments in eternal hellfire, as graphically described in the Qur'an. Now it's certainly possible that either or both Christianity or Islam could be wrong about their respective scenarios, but it's for sure that they can't both be right.
Go watch the information they receive during exorcisms demons aren’t reacting to Islam teaching or Buddhism they’re reacting to Christianity and Jesus his name brings power every priest or even preachers their faith strengthens because of this because they see the power of Jesus. Islam has nothing to compare with that
@@Scourge112 In the Muslim world, where they also have "exorcisms", so-called demons react to Muslim iconography. Not true that Jesus and Christianity are the only game in town when it comes to the phenomenon of so called "possession", which manifests in other cultures besides ours.