The Twisted World of Mischa Barton | Deep Dive

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 11. 05. 2023
  • Use code DEEPDIVE for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/DEEP...
    In today's Deep Dive we will be diving deep into the world of Mischa Barton the IT GIRL of 2003. How she became famous overnight & was targeted by the paparazzi leading to a 5150 hold.
    Music:
    Jaye Naima: Bad B*tch Position: music.apple.com/us/album/bad-...
    Chase Icon: Club Cooter: music.apple.com/us/album/club...
    Credit:
    Pop Culture Died in 2009 had archived articles & information that have since been deleted that I utilized in this video. Go check their website out: www.popculturediedin2009.com
    Subscribe to our personal channels:
    Shelby’s Search Bar: @shelbyssearchbar
    Secret Society with Jake: @notsecretsociety
    Follow us on our socials for updates on future Deep Dive episodes:
    Twitter: @DeepDiveTweets
    TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@briefdive?lan...
    Instagram: / deepdivepresent. .

Komentáře • 1,1K

  • @DeepDiveProductions
    @DeepDiveProductions  Před rokem +60

    Use code DEEPDIVE for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/DEEPDIVE

    • @user-kf8cw2fv6t
      @user-kf8cw2fv6t Před rokem +5

      Girl is tryna sell a damn sticker for 8$💀💀💀💀💀and a hoodie for $50💀💀💀💀Bih plz be so fr. Ain’t no one buying that in the first place.

    • @orls9068
      @orls9068 Před rokem

      Her name is pronounced Noolah not Nolla, Nuala is an Irish name

    • @jasminepetal3972
      @jasminepetal3972 Před 11 měsíci

      Whats the song at 13:37 ?

    • @jasminepetal3972
      @jasminepetal3972 Před 11 měsíci +1

      ​@@user-kf8cw2fv6t relax be nicee

    • @sharpno2pencil476
      @sharpno2pencil476 Před 9 měsíci

      I LOVE this narrator! Keep her! I prefer Shelby

  • @biancapaulikowski369
    @biancapaulikowski369 Před rokem +1057

    Mischa never gets her flowers for being one of the top it girls of the aughts, and she often gets lost in the shuffle of Britney, Lindsay, Nicole, and Paris. She was equally tormented and exploited by the media, and her career has never recovered. Thank you for making this video, because Mischa was and
    is a queen!

    • @angelaholmes8888
      @angelaholmes8888 Před rokem +19

      Yeah she was treated badly it's sad that her career hasn't recovered

    • @XxAlyxXtheone
      @XxAlyxXtheone Před rokem +14

      Exactly! She did deserve to keep on going but the media did the work on putting it all down, is just not fair.

    • @Dandoskyballer
      @Dandoskyballer Před 7 měsíci +1

      I mean, she recently starred in a new Whodunnit movie. Her career isn't over.

    • @bmagada
      @bmagada Před 3 měsíci

      and then just like Britney shows up and starts making random accusations that no one else backs and all the female fans of one show are now attacking Ben Makenzie.

    • @lorisnyder8224
      @lorisnyder8224 Před 2 měsíci

      Certainly was the most beautiful of those girls.

  • @doperagu8471
    @doperagu8471 Před rokem +2798

    I love her dismissing Perez Hilton's "apology" - yeah, no. He's awful. The only people out here "forgiving" him are those who either were too young or hadn't been born yet to remember all the damage he caused. Not just to celebrities but to all the young people who followed him. I have never seen a good apology from him, only "but xyz... But... But.. but" - that's NOT an apology OR taking accountability. This man was, and continues to be awful, until he REALLY takes accountability.

    • @djwalkerfemaledj
      @djwalkerfemaledj Před rokem +42

      He’s a mean Puff

    • @myob3839
      @myob3839 Před rokem +7

      truthfully besides the nick name mushy… he didnt do anything worse then any other site or magazine or paparazzi’s coverage of her, lindsey, nicole etc etc

    • @TheLillkill
      @TheLillkill Před rokem +140

      ​@@myob3839Yes media in general was the absolute worst, but dont you dare dismiss the awful things he did like this. Wtf.

    • @tonyamell23
      @tonyamell23 Před rokem +117

      @@myob3839 Posting revenge porn is horrible, and he bragged about it like he was some almighty god!! His blog just turned into something for power over celebs instead of just reporting!!! He knew he was causing damage and didn’t care!!!

    • @danysanerd2383
      @danysanerd2383 Před rokem +48

      ​@@myob3839 In the few moments around 18:18 reading all of those posts that perez wrote turned my stomach. Maybe I'm just not reading any other magazine or paparazzi right because I've never read such nasty negative condescending and disrespectful s stuff. Actually I'm sure I'm actually right, I'm right in just not bothering to spend any time amplifying the voices of nasty people like Perez, imo all we can do is ignore them until they stfu... but only in a perfect world ig....

  • @lindseystein9676
    @lindseystein9676 Před rokem +1610

    Early 2000’s tabloids were so disgusting. Those people should be ashamed of themselves, especially Perez Hilton. He’s exactly the same. He still obsesses over certain people, he’s just slightly less overt in his insults. He sort of apologized, but isn’t doing much better.

    • @doyoufeardeath666
      @doyoufeardeath666 Před rokem +19

      Tabloids today are not really much better tho 🙄

    • @drea12187
      @drea12187 Před rokem +19

      Maybe so, but wtf do you call today? Over sharing and over "accepting" everything to the point of "CANCELLING" a person because of ridiculous standards based on hurt feelings? Wait 20 years...this era will be worse than it was back then....

    • @gossipsquirrel
      @gossipsquirrel Před rokem +3

      Isn’t it so great this channel monetizes redistributing their filth? It’s so subtle and so empowering too

    • @MissDarlaDeville
      @MissDarlaDeville Před rokem +3

      Or Tmz

    • @monmixer69
      @monmixer69 Před rokem

      Tabloids have been non disgusting.

  • @amandaredd3057
    @amandaredd3057 Před rokem +1929

    Just because that wasn't Rachel Bilson's experience doesn't mean it wasn't Micha Barton's. It doesn't mean she was lying. Micha being younger like she was, I'm not surprised that her experience was different. It's sad that things went down for her the way they did. I hope she's doing great now

    • @miguelstarboy5572
      @miguelstarboy5572 Před rokem +117

      fr rachel was wrong

    • @meeeeeeeeeeeep
      @meeeeeeeeeeeep Před rokem +157

      EXACTLY!!! I was SO DISGUSTED with Rachel after this. Rachel is such a bully and a mean girl. Sick.

    • @meeeeeeeeeeeep
      @meeeeeeeeeeeep Před rokem +88

      ​@@miguelstarboy5572 Exactly! Rachel is disgusting for dismissing the hardships of other women

    • @meeriann
      @meeriann Před rokem +87

      Yeah. But.
      She said if Mischa lied about her then what else is she saying could be a lie.
      Misha DID say stuff about Rachel’s contract that can be easily checked so 🤷‍♀️
      She also said she’d like to talk to her. Maybe they did talk, maybe they didn’t. That’s not important.
      Y’all can’t say Rachel is this or that just cause of ONE CLIP, people 🤦‍♀️
      And there’s always two sides to every story.

    • @FukaiKokoro
      @FukaiKokoro Před rokem +29

      Yeah I absolutely hate when people do that. I think it's their way out of taking accountability for what they saw.

  • @RHBR01
    @RHBR01 Před rokem +3036

    A Deep Dive on Perez Hilton would be a hell of a thing, if you guys were into it.

  • @Nikita-zo4gp
    @Nikita-zo4gp Před rokem +867

    Misha Barton was THE reason to watch OC. It wasn't a surprise the show had died with her character gone. She is an endless beauty and her voice is quite special, too.

    • @sonyaannsays
      @sonyaannsays Před rokem +39

      Truth! I love her voice! She could narrate a book or do a podcast. I especially love hearing her tell her story now with the tone of a measured, mature and wise woman whose learned a lot over the years!

    • @pohandrek8182
      @pohandrek8182 Před rokem +50

      i don't have anything against misha but i watche the show because of adam brody and rachel bilson 🙃

    • @jasminepetal3972
      @jasminepetal3972 Před 11 měsíci +1

      Voices are cool , theure important imo...

    • @Zucifer8
      @Zucifer8 Před 10 měsíci +3

      So the reason to watch the show is cause she was pretty (…and had a decent speaking voice)?

    • @rebecca9949
      @rebecca9949 Před 10 měsíci +20

      @@pohandrek8182 yeah I thought Misha's character was boring. Seth and Summer were funny and the reason I watched

  • @calebgambill2944
    @calebgambill2944 Před rokem +1045

    One thing I think a lot of people skip over is the sexualization she went through really young. She did a lot of adult themed films growing up, and was topless at 17 for an Enrique Iglesias video. She was also on an episode of Fastlane where she tries to seduce an adult while wearing a bra and panties, and this was before the OC so she was for sure underaged. I’m sure she was exposed to a lot of things really young, and that’s a recipe for disaster. Always rooting for her though and she seems in a much better place these days.

    • @popartpistol
      @popartpistol Před rokem +151

      Her parents have a LOT to answer for

    • @TomikaKelly
      @TomikaKelly Před rokem +45

      Where were her parents when all of this was going on? 🤔

    • @morticiagomez6166
      @morticiagomez6166 Před rokem +1

      @@TomikaKelly I think her parents were knowingly exploiting her because I remember when she had a breakdown, she blamed her MOTHER for exploiting her. It reminded me of Amanda Bynes…
      These are parents who are involved in the satanic Hollywood Cults and don’t consider child Abbuse as a bad thing…..

    • @lunalove9395
      @lunalove9395 Před rokem +98

      @@TomikaKelly Her mom was her manager. :/ She sued her in 2015 for withholding earnings, kicking her out of a home she bought + exploiting her. I'm sure she even said in an interview (or maybe the oc podcast), that at first she didn't even really want to do The O.C (or any acting work at that time) because she wanted to finish school in NY first.

    • @marniekilbourne608
      @marniekilbourne608 Před rokem +44

      Sadly, that is a common experience for child actors as they grow up.

  • @moonchild8422
    @moonchild8422 Před rokem +579

    Its so disgusting what child actors go through and then people wonder why they have trauma later in life.

    • @moustik31
      @moustik31 Před rokem +20

      Her personal team and the professional team of the OC were both so abusive. They exploited her until they couldnt make money off of her.

    • @kaisajosel
      @kaisajosel Před 9 měsíci +12

      depraved conditioning......nothing more!

    • @natashakaye9223
      @natashakaye9223 Před 3 měsíci +2

      True and the way the media treat young women that go through this Vs men...

  • @intothemystic5223
    @intothemystic5223 Před rokem +1124

    I can't even imagine being filmed while I was in my early 20s clubbing like the majority of people that age do...then being judged for it.

    • @djwalkerfemaledj
      @djwalkerfemaledj Před rokem +55

      Sexism actors in the 20s don’t get judged for partying 🙄

    • @jelemil
      @jelemil Před rokem +46

      ​@@djwalkerfemaledj 'boys will be boys' ugh

    • @Meganb1286
      @Meganb1286 Před rokem +12

      This!! Damn so true

    • @SoCalJellybean
      @SoCalJellybean Před rokem +5

      If you don’t want the paparazzi following your every move, and you find it so overwhelming, maaaaybe don’t go partying your face off at every LA club. 🤷🏼‍♀️

    • @intothemystic5223
      @intothemystic5223 Před rokem +55

      @SoCalJellybean Yes, don't enjoy your life. You're famous and rich so you don't deserve privacy 🙄 (sarcasm in case you think I'm actually agreeing with you)

  • @SummerRaeFL
    @SummerRaeFL Před rokem +222

    “A lot of people I trusted turned out to be monsters.” When you can’t even trust your own family, especially mother, then who can you trust in this world 😢💔

    • @NurmaBP
      @NurmaBP Před 4 měsíci +10

      Yeah, what kind of mother who would allowed her daughter who barely 10 yro to filmed rate R movie like that. It's insane.

  • @leannabedore
    @leannabedore Před rokem +408

    How sad, her yelling off the balcony, someone recording her in a vulnerable moment. She was screaming about her mom. Obviously distraught.😢 so many people around her, hurt her.

    • @simonetta-ta
      @simonetta-ta Před 7 měsíci +12

      I'm so glad you said that, I feel the same 😢

    • @thepubknight6144
      @thepubknight6144 Před 6 měsíci +14

      Dave Chappelle said it best " To call someone crazy it's dismissive. They're not crazy"

    • @WynnWynn-gl3fk
      @WynnWynn-gl3fk Před 4 měsíci +5

      Plus he sold it to tabloids

    • @catpeople11
      @catpeople11 Před 4 měsíci +4

      Literally processing trauma about her stage mom.

    • @leannabedore
      @leannabedore Před 4 měsíci

      @catpeople11 I'll have to read about that, i didn't know about her stage mom. You are so right about processing trauma.

  • @deborahbuchanan3238
    @deborahbuchanan3238 Před rokem +241

    The real problem here is Mischa’s parent’s betrayal of their daughter….a very deep wound inflicted upon her. Also the jealousy, lack of support and betrayal of others. I hope she finds her way again.

    • @ssQ2U
      @ssQ2U Před 10 měsíci +13

      Yes, it sounds like she was treated badly by many people. I hope she gets a great new opportunity 💖

    • @jahwobble5214
      @jahwobble5214 Před 8 měsíci +7

      Her mother sounds like a pos.. if your parents arent there to support you then who is??

    • @TheAshesArt
      @TheAshesArt Před 8 měsíci +2

      💔💔💔

    • @simonetta-ta
      @simonetta-ta Před 7 měsíci +1

      Thank you for saying that; I feel the same 😢

  • @krystinaxxlea
    @krystinaxxlea Před rokem +447

    And everyone still has the balls to talk shit about Britney and how she's behaving, and here we have ANOTHER celebrity who was being fed pills to keep her making money for other people. I wish more people would have empathy for these celebrities. Just because they're beautiful and rich doesn't mean they are happy and healthy, or even safe.

    • @doyoufeardeath666
      @doyoufeardeath666 Před rokem +15

      Yeah literally any person could get famous at any point, they still should be treated with basic human decency and respect :/ so many people don't think so because they chose that career

    • @esikazemese
      @esikazemese Před rokem +10

      I am sorry for Britney but she should really just stop breeding. No child needs a mother that traumatized.

    • @TJ-bn2cn
      @TJ-bn2cn Před rokem

      @@esikazemese You’re no better than every other people who think that they are so wonderful you can judge and biatch about others

    • @LoveK1
      @LoveK1 Před rokem +6

      @@esikazemese And Britney IS acting wild. Like you said, she isn’t in any headspace to be having any more children. I’d worry for them and her.

    • @caseyminett7394
      @caseyminett7394 Před rokem +7

      It's human trafficking and the people involved need to be charged.

  • @KateMich12
    @KateMich12 Před rokem +316

    Good for her for not accepting Perez's "apology." I almost vomited at him being the godfather of Heidi and Spencer's child but then remembered Heidi and Spencer were always vomit inducing to me so I shouldn't be that surprised.

    • @hannah.e.023
      @hannah.e.023 Před rokem +38

      She’s real for that. He was cutting her off, trying to get words in to guilt her into accepting his late-ass, halfhearted “apology” for the cameras. I feel bad that Heidi and Spencer chose a piece of trash to be the godfather of their child - mostly for the child. Luckily they don’t have any daughters for Perez to bully.

    • @esikazemese
      @esikazemese Před rokem +1

      :DDDDDDDD Love this!

    • @fortheladies771
      @fortheladies771 Před rokem +8

      @@hannah.e.023 I mean….Speidi sold stories to Him about Lauren on The Hills, so it’s no surprise to me lol

  • @amandaredd3057
    @amandaredd3057 Před rokem +206

    Dude, WTF were her parents thinking allowing her to play in a movie like that (whatever it was called - that first one when she was 10)?

    • @izabelasiczek3547
      @izabelasiczek3547 Před rokem +39

      Money

    • @mvcurlyqs
      @mvcurlyqs Před rokem +36

      Thank you!! I was looking for comments about that movie! It was so gross!

    • @sarah3796
      @sarah3796 Před 4 měsíci +14

      That movie looked really messed up. Was it written by a predator?

    • @Marlaina
      @Marlaina Před 3 měsíci +10

      ​@@sarah3796Only a predator would not only think of it but put it on the screen

    • @mariadesotoescobar
      @mariadesotoescobar Před měsícem +1

      One of drew Barrymore's first movies was creepy as well

  • @michaeljemal
    @michaeljemal Před rokem +303

    I would like to just comment that I have had the pleasure of meeting Mischa several times; I’m just here to say she came across as an empathetic, awesome human being & I wish her nothing but the best in life. ❤

  • @bt4582
    @bt4582 Před rokem +213

    Wow Sophie Munk is so kind! I am glad she helped Mischa when no one else would including her "best friends".

    • @angelaanaconda5837
      @angelaanaconda5837 Před rokem

      Naivety

    • @morticiagomez6166
      @morticiagomez6166 Před rokem +19

      @@angelaanaconda5837 What do you mean by “Naivety”?? She was being a Good Samaritan and helping to Save somebody’s LIFE…. Would you not do the same thing?

    • @morticiagomez6166
      @morticiagomez6166 Před rokem +18

      It looks really bad on Nicole Ritchie !

    • @angelaanaconda5837
      @angelaanaconda5837 Před rokem +2

      @@morticiagomez6166 you can't recognize mean girl you're gullible and will get taken easy. She saying what people wanted to hear watch that back over and look at her.

    • @mickanos6562
      @mickanos6562 Před rokem +17

      ​@@angelaanaconda5837 Sophie Monk is one of the kindest celebrities around... It's in an Aussies nature to help others

  • @taylorgayhart9497
    @taylorgayhart9497 Před rokem +204

    “I saw things differently.” DUH you were an adult in your twenties with your frontal lobe fully formed. Mischa was a child and should have been more protected than the rest.

    • @mercedesvelasquez8781
      @mercedesvelasquez8781 Před rokem +5

      Well how old was she exactly??? In your twenties you see things much differently but when your frontal lobe does fully develop at 25 then & only then you see things that much more differently then you did prior to age of 25 just saying...

    • @TheJd2194
      @TheJd2194 Před rokem +3

      ​@@mercedesvelasquez8781 did you not watch the video?

    • @xiomorastyles5852
      @xiomorastyles5852 Před 9 měsíci +4

      you’re still very young in your twenties. nothing rachel said was wrong or offensive, just that their experiences were different, she even said she’d love to talk to micha about how things were different for her. she wasn’t rude at all, people calling her a pick-me. i think she just feels bad that all that time she was having a blast on set/filming while micha was miserable and apparently, being treated like shit by everyone else. it probably hurts rachel just as much to hear that

  • @meeeeeeeeeeeep
    @meeeeeeeeeeeep Před rokem +674

    *Rachel Bison, the woman who played "Summer," was incredibly rude and dismissive of what Mischa went through. She has a podcast with the actress who played Summer's mom and basically negated everything Mischa went through and I was immediately turned off from her forever for that. Just because Rachel had a good experience doesn't mean Mischa did!!! Shame on a fellow woman to dismiss the horrible experiences of another. Also, Mischa stuck to the same stories forever so I believe her.*
    *It's because Rachel is still best friends with Josh Schwartz, the creator so The OC, so of course she doesn't want to bad-mouth the show in any way. Also, Rachel WAS added last minute. Rachel is such a mean girl.*
    *I feel so badly for Mischa, she had such a hard life from such a young age.*

    • @happydays2183
      @happydays2183 Před rokem +60

      The podcast is with the woman who played Marissa Cooper's mother 🙂

    • @Theonlyone333
      @Theonlyone333 Před rokem +99

      Agreed. Rachel was barely in the show for the first few episodes. Also, if I’m not mistaken Bilson is a nepo-child. I always found Mischa’s acting a LOT better. Marissa was like 20 characters in one.

    • @eh1126
      @eh1126 Před rokem +108

      I disliked Rachel Bilson after what she did with Rami Malek (posted a throwback photo with him when he won an Oscar). The picture was unflattering and he asked her to remove it. It gave me such bad vibes, like that person from high school who hasn’t spoken to you in years but the moment you make it big they want everyone to know that they were friends with you.

    • @stephpavlic4819
      @stephpavlic4819 Před rokem +74

      I immediately disliked her when she needed to loudly discuss her sex life with Bill Hader on her podcast a full year after they broke up. He has always been super private in relationships and she knew that. Just wanted more attention since she hasn’t had a true career in decades.

    • @jenniferflanagan8247
      @jenniferflanagan8247 Před rokem +39

      I always got mean girl energy from her. Thanks for confirming!

  • @almi8151
    @almi8151 Před rokem +296

    As soon as he swore on his kids life she was like 😑 but seriously you can really see how intelligent and respectable she is, it's so awesome to see someones crazy fame story genuinely lead to such a relatable human

  • @Bones1220
    @Bones1220 Před rokem +341

    I absolutely love Mischa. I wish she hadn’t been exploited in her weakest moments like that. It really seems like it messed up her opportunities big time.

    • @cjb2749
      @cjb2749 Před rokem +7

      Actually, it was her ego that messed up Mischa's opportunities. She had become completely unreliable and obnoxiously arrogant. She treated most people like absolute garbage once her show took off, and for several years afterward.
      I never met her team, but I hung out with her enough times to feel confident in saying that NOBODY could tell Mischa what to do/not to do.
      I haven't watched this video yet, but scrolling through the comments, I'm getting the idea that it might be a fluff piece. Is this "deep dive" similar to Shane dawson's "documentary" about Tana, by any chance..?

    • @Bones1220
      @Bones1220 Před rokem +9

      @@cjb2749 hahaha no way! That’s neat that you have some personal insight. I guess I’m just soft bc I loved the OC so much.
      Idk how insightful this doc is. Mischa’s words in interviews don’t really match up with what other people say. But I definitely have some sympathy since she was a tabloid target in her teenage years.

    • @KateMich12
      @KateMich12 Před rokem +14

      @@cjb2749 Cool. Why don't you watch it before commenting?

    • @Nicole__Natalia
      @Nicole__Natalia Před rokem +18

      @@cjb2749 while I appreciate your personal experience with her, this girl was a child actress so she 100% has my sympathy. Being in the limelight at such a young age can reallllly mess a person up bad. Also, didn’t she have an issue with drugs (I haven’t finished the video yet but I vaguely remember hearing about it back in the day)? Although it’s not an excuse for being a bad person, addiction straight up sucks and is hell for both the addict and the ppl around them. So I’m sure that played a part in her inflated ego. And like the other commenter said she was a tabloid target when she was a teenager and if you remember anything about the tabloids back then they were absolutely disgustingly savage to young girls. That couldn’t be easy.

    • @XxAlyxXtheone
      @XxAlyxXtheone Před rokem +7

      I remember the BEBE clothing brand, she was so beautiful on the campaigns just stunning… so unfair that she was overworked and unappreciated 😢

  • @cliobhabie
    @cliobhabie Před 8 měsíci +125

    Rachel Bielson invalidating Mischa proves that she was def one of the bullies. Mischa has stuck to her story for twenty years now

    • @bergercookie
      @bergercookie Před 7 měsíci +28

      That was disgusting and I’m repulsed by Bilson trying to downplay Misha’s toxic experience. She knows how the industry works and threw Misha under the bus before even trying to be there for her costar.

    • @sportshistorybuff319
      @sportshistorybuff319 Před 5 měsíci +3

      Did Rachel actually accuse Mischa of lying, or did she simply say she didn't remember/know of such bullying?

    • @tue89
      @tue89 Před 5 měsíci +6

      @@sportshistorybuff319 As it was said in the video, Misha was younger than the other The oc actors and was the only person who portrayed her own age in the show. Misha was filming TV dramas at a pace that was beyond her age and there was also the stress of bullying. In short, while she says she was bullied, on the contrary, Rachel screwed up while trying to turn away the arrows pointed at her, saying "there was no toxicity or bullying on the set from my perspective". Because while people were saying that she was a bully herself, Rachel manipulated the situation and said, "There was no bullying to be seen." It's like ''people saying this person is bad but not to me'' situation.

    • @sportshistorybuff319
      @sportshistorybuff319 Před 5 měsíci +1

      I have heard Rachel admit she, among other cast members, behaved like a diva on set, but never heard her admit, or others suggest, she bullied others in general, or Mischa in particular. Are there sources asserting that specifically? The only other caveat I would have is that being younger than other cast members doesn't serve as a catch all get out of responsibility free card for Mischa to act like a diva at work. Teenagers are entirely capable of learning, accepting and demonstrating respect for others. Nor does being bullied by others serve as a blanket cop out for Mischa acting like a spoiled princess on set, if her behavior was a bad as rumored.

    • @halloweenallyearround4889
      @halloweenallyearround4889 Před 4 měsíci +2

      Rachel Bilson's so disappointing. She must be almost 40 now and she's stuck in that bully mindset and behaviour. Unrepentant AH.

  • @tisme2888
    @tisme2888 Před rokem +79

    You know, you can actually see the pain in her eyes. She doesn’t look happy at all. Is it any wonder with what she was put through.. Poor girl..

  • @PrincessPowerranger
    @PrincessPowerranger Před rokem +55

    I feel like Perez was honestly jealous of the young girls that he bullied, and honestly he probably was projecting what he truly felt about himself. Perez hates women he always has

  • @tarynmichelle5763
    @tarynmichelle5763 Před rokem +163

    Damn I knew she went through a ton of crap but I didn’t really realize how bad it truly was for so many years for her. I hope she’s happy, healthy, and at peace in her life these days♥️

  • @Bones1220
    @Bones1220 Před rokem +123

    Perez Hilton is so messed up for the things he’s said about these women. I don’t know if there is a way he can make up for it truly.

  • @ricky-pauloneill3052
    @ricky-pauloneill3052 Před rokem +55

    She’s an icon. She doesn’t get the credit she deserves. I think Mischa will have a career resurgence soon, there is unfinished business. She’s articulate, strong, aware, perceptive and talented.

  • @angelkaterose
    @angelkaterose Před rokem +95

    Omg. If all those supposed friends really left Mischa to potentially die, that is awful. So sad. Also it highlights how connecting with people over things such as drugs or partying is unlikely to lead to lead to real friendship where everyone has one another's best interests at heart.

  • @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie
    @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie Před rokem +205

    So proud of Sophie and so proud to be Australian. We are known for our caring nature. We might be a weird country but we will always look after someone struggling. We also love an underdog.

    • @miguelstarboy5572
      @miguelstarboy5572 Před rokem +13

      aw I didn't know that but hank the universe for caring australians

    • @hannah.e.023
      @hannah.e.023 Před rokem +18

      You’re so right about that! The Australians here in Chicago are generally kind and love to laugh. Best people - would love to visit Australia someday.

    • @violetsvision4561
      @violetsvision4561 Před rokem +23

      Fellow Aussie here!!
      I'm here to say the same. Us Aussies may be a wierd bunch, but we mostly have hearts of gold. Bogan Gold!😂

    • @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie
      @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie Před rokem +9

      @@hannah.e.023 that’s so lovely to hear. Please come and visit. It’s a really beautiful country. I live in the tropical north of Australia. The sun shines every day and it’s so beautiful and laid back here ☀️

    • @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie
      @LizzieLizzieLizzieLizzie Před rokem +6

      @@violetsvision4561 full bogan gold 😂😂😂 I’m laughing because it’s so true 💗

  • @aurora8749
    @aurora8749 Před rokem +69

    Man, she was surrounded by evil pricks. It hurt my heart watching thus because it reminded me so much of my own life, not that I'm famous but I too had an evil mother who only cared about herself. I struggled with anorexia and the moment I'd start getting better and gain 5 pounds people would make negative comments about it. I also had a guy who I had a crush on trick me by getting me to play a drinking game where he set me up to lose on every turn and then I slept with him and he recorded it without my knowledge and showed everyone I know. I was 15 and still everyone blamed me because society is completely sexist and anytime a woman or girl is assaulted, abused, or used it is always her fault 🙄. Of course she struggled with addiction when everyone around you uses and abuses you drugs and alcohol feel like your only friend.

    • @seniorarubia
      @seniorarubia Před rokem +3

      Aurora please feel hugged and loved you’re awesome ❤ you reflect and still such a good human who can feel and talk about it. Wish u the best ❤❤❤❤

    • @MsZ83
      @MsZ83 Před rokem +2

      I’m so sorry this happened to you. Sending you all the positive vibes ✨

    • @LilymcSummer
      @LilymcSummer Před 3 měsíci

      I’m so sorry you got dealt that shit hand. I can relate to parts, definitely the POS mother part, and your last line is spot on. I hope life is better now 🤍

  • @kimgilbert3605
    @kimgilbert3605 Před rokem +46

    We knew Mischa, her sister and her mom through print jobs that my daughter did with Mischa when they were younger. Mischa and her mom were so friendly and kind. We were so saddened to see the struggles she went through in her teen years.

  • @witchingbrew3
    @witchingbrew3 Před rokem +48

    i dont think the production wanted to admit that Rachel Bilson was catered to because of her Nepotism, while Mischa was treated horribly. Everyone is kissing her ass because of her father grandfather, family name etc, while Mischa was undermined. No wonder Mischa left. And tbh its on the industry not the actresses or actors. Mischa got tired of it. She built her career by herself and that can hurt any young aspiring actor. The industry wants to give XYZ whose parent grandparent uncle aunt etc been in the business before. While entertainers like Mischa had to crawl their way to the top. Its taxing! Also want to note I am a fan of the Bilson family. I think they are generations of creative minds, really talented, but I can admit the favoritism.

    • @xiomorastyles5852
      @xiomorastyles5852 Před 9 měsíci +5

      no one should be blaming rachel though. her experiences were different because they were each in their own world. it doesn’t mean they didn’t care about each other, rachel just didn’t know genuinely what was going on. everyone says she was so much older but it was really only a couple years and you’re still very young and naive in your twenties. it probably hurts rachel just as much that michas experience was so terrible on the show they both worked on

  • @bopshi
    @bopshi Před rokem +211

    I used to read Perez Hilton as a teen because it was kind of like a trainwreck situation, I just couldn’t look away. The dude was so offensive and mean. I will **NEVER** forget the day I saw what that man looks like 🤢🤮 The nerve… the audacity…the injustice to humanity…!!- he has no right to talk about anyone’s appearance lookin the way he does 😂😢 It blew my mind

    • @bobbiejean2410
      @bobbiejean2410 Před rokem +8

      Same!

    • @moustik31
      @moustik31 Před rokem +8

      Right? I was remembering his picture, while his blog post about Misha Barton was read in the video. The nerve of that man.

    • @brennanthabault1351
      @brennanthabault1351 Před rokem +16

      He does look like a cave man

    • @aubsesque
      @aubsesque Před rokem +2

      Same here. I can't believe i read that toxic stuff

    • @Katarina23
      @Katarina23 Před rokem +8

      Exactly. Im shocked that he ever bullied Mischa about her weight when he was a baby Rhino himself. Maybe he realized himself after karma hit him

  • @amandaredd3057
    @amandaredd3057 Před rokem +109

    What the hell is wrong with people?? Seriously? I feel terribly for her! Her mother is awful, that disgusting rat of a boyfriend is repulsive, her neighbor was a schmuck, etc etc One horrible entrusted person in her life after the other! This poor woman can't trust squat!

  • @lilyblu4577
    @lilyblu4577 Před rokem +31

    Just because someone decides to apologize doesn't mean you *have* to accept that apology right then. Its up to the person to decide when it gets accepted. PH caused her alotta heartbreak back then.

  • @leighterry943
    @leighterry943 Před 8 měsíci +11

    This poor girl was abused by her despicable family & the dark, evil Hollywood system. Back in the day, people saw that there was a lot of corruption in Hollywood and exploitation, but I think we know it now, on a whole different level. These actors & superstars are abused by a very evil system & that system needs to fall. I pray she's doing better, today, & I hope you have a happy, blessed, and fulfilling life. Thanks for your amazing work on the OC!

  • @JHjh88
    @JHjh88 Před rokem +100

    I have a new respect for Sophie Monk. Some friends leaving Micha to die! ❤️ From Australia 🐨

  • @laurahughes8902
    @laurahughes8902 Před rokem +27

    Perez Hilton did not age well, not physically or socially. He is one of the only people actually deserving of a cancellation. He is a nasty person who made money off of putting people down. I cannot for the life of me figure out how he is still relevant in any way. He is such a bully.

  • @IssyRachel
    @IssyRachel Před rokem +169

    Her personal life has been so sad, it must be awful to know that people aren't looking out for you, especially your own mother - sounds absolutely horrific. Also, fair play to her calling out Perez directly, he's a disgusting human being

  • @karyng4448
    @karyng4448 Před rokem +95

    Never was a fan or watched but I feel very badly for her. She seems like a very kind intelligent woman and she didn’t deserve all that. Incredibly sad

  • @veraglauben
    @veraglauben Před rokem +23

    I had a huge crush on her. I am so sorry how life had treated her. I feel like she's a person born with a thin skin, and she was hurt so much by people close to her and the vultures around. I am happy to see her stand her ground so firmly now.

  • @KateMich12
    @KateMich12 Před rokem +60

    Thank God hundreds of annoying Paparazzi weren't following me around taking my picture when I was 21. This poor girl. All of the young women of this time deserved so much freaking better.

  • @Susiehighschool
    @Susiehighschool Před rokem +49

    You guys have the most profound way of taking subjects or people I know nothing about, had no interest in and getting me obsessed with the stories by midway through the video. I have watched every video you’ve put out no matter the topic bc I know I’ll be hooked. And this is coming from an almost 40 year old mom 😅 Keep up the good work, I can’t get enough!! ❤

  • @zyahleigh
    @zyahleigh Před rokem +38

    You always do such an amazing job on these deep dives! Don't ever stop.

  • @ashriihi
    @ashriihi Před rokem +202

    Please be kinder to her than Perez Hilton's blog was.

    • @lindseystein9676
      @lindseystein9676 Před rokem +2

      Perez is trash

    • @bowwowschild
      @bowwowschild Před rokem +111

      Someone needs to do a deep dive on how awful he was in the early 2000s

    • @JessaLynn8
      @JessaLynn8 Před rokem

      He's a douchebag imo doesn't seem to really want to accept what an awful human he was.

    • @maryjanedoe
      @maryjanedoe Před rokem +36

      he makes me SICK

    • @lindseystein9676
      @lindseystein9676 Před rokem +28

      I think his “articles” are still out there, but it would be interesting to see a deep dive by deep dive (lol) on him. A comparison to what he does now would also be interesting. He hasn’t really changed that much, he just isn’t as blatant with his insults anymore

  • @amivanzyl8876
    @amivanzyl8876 Před 8 měsíci +16

    I wrote her off as an actress because I was a younger teen when she was an It girl. Just saw a trailer of her in a new amazon murder mystery movie and she was selling the role in under a minute. I couldn't believe it was her, I hope she gets more opportunities to act while keeping healthy and happy.

  • @lukesebastin2237
    @lukesebastin2237 Před rokem +7

    Thank you so much for listening to my request and making this video. It was so detailed and well made.

  • @TheRoseBrii
    @TheRoseBrii Před rokem +21

    heartbreaking to see such a beautiful girl being destroyed by everyone around her. She deserved so much better

  • @jetchiken
    @jetchiken Před rokem +31

    To antagonize someone's illness for entertainment... I'm not even a celebrity, and I've had that happen to me in my old town. People are so fucking sick. I couldn't imagine experiencing what I did at a GLOBAL scale. I feel for her, and I so hope she has learned to truly love herself. She deserves that. People are so disgusting sometimes.

  • @simplymonca9608
    @simplymonca9608 Před rokem +16

    This is one of my favorite deep dives from you. Amazing! Idk how you guys do it with all else you’ve got going on. Sending good vibes and strength to you ❤

  • @2TexasTuff
    @2TexasTuff Před rokem +55

    Geez - i know what lost/stolen innocence looks like….. Mich’s eyes/face convey this affliction as well as fatigue. I hope she is settling thru her continued sacred journey. Sigh.

  • @israeliteprincess8996
    @israeliteprincess8996 Před rokem +56

    That movie Mischa did when she was eleven is disgusting. And her parents really allowed it... Of course smh.

  • @SarahS-zq8ru
    @SarahS-zq8ru Před rokem +3

    You guys are on it! Covering all the topics, like in my head! Loved the OC, was literally one of my all time favorite tv shows!

  • @user-kq6ki5bn2k
    @user-kq6ki5bn2k Před rokem +22

    She's my fav it girl of the 00's. Hope she gets all the money and justice she deserves.

  • @sarahh3061
    @sarahh3061 Před rokem +28

    As I get older I'm becoming more empathetic towards the rich and famous. I cannot imagine how stressful and intrusive it must be. Wishing her all the best.

  • @khairularchi
    @khairularchi Před rokem +39

    The Y2K era (early 2000s) such a WILD fever dream... And then a completely different era starts 2009.

  • @JaiProdz
    @JaiProdz Před rokem +75

    I feel sorry for her and i hope she gets the renaissance and peace she deserves. Such a talent, the compilation of her scenes from Once and Again with Evan Rachel Wood REALLY showed that she was a promising young talent.

  • @rachelpadilla9368
    @rachelpadilla9368 Před rokem +8

    That was so good. I loved every minute of it. Looking forward to your next deep dive.😊

  • @tobykhumalo3952
    @tobykhumalo3952 Před rokem +17

    There is almost a "curse" to being an excessively beautiful female. The intentions from others about what they want to benefit from having you in their space can easily fall to the selfish dark side... and the impact is devastating most times than not.

  • @CrashBandiscoot
    @CrashBandiscoot Před rokem +27

    The feeding of the pills, stimulants you keep Hager going and downers to get her to sleep is Judy Garland stuff. They also said Judy was far too “fat” to play Dorothy so she had to shed pounds. In the end it still wasn’t good enough. Judy developed a terrible addiction. This was probably early Hollywood, a solid 70 years prior to this. Some things never change, it’s sick. And I DESPISE weight scrutiny. I grew up with a mother who did it, it’s horrible with lifelong insecurities. I’m so happy we have Lizzo. And I loved celeb photos “exposing” cellulite! It shows they’re REAL PEOPLE. Although tabloid mags at store checkout lines photoshop them to make them worse. But now celebrities are beginning to be real with us. Her struggle with alcoholism really spoke to me too, as I also suffered big time. 2.5 years sober as of TODAY!

  • @danielle1103
    @danielle1103 Před rokem +34

    OMG!!! I’m SO excited for this!!! I loved The OC as a teenager!

    • @drinkallthesunshine
      @drinkallthesunshine Před rokem +2

      Are you from The OC?
      I ask cause I am and anywhere I go outside the state, people ask me where I’m from, I say Orange County, the response is always the same “OMG LIKE THE OC?!?!”
      Like yahhhh, but nahhhh hahaha
      Although I went to school right where The Real Housewives of OC was filmed, I know 3-4 people’s kids that were actually featured on the show. And have lived and worked in Laguna Beach… That damn tv show RUINED Laguna, it got soo touristy/busy and they built ritzier places in an effort to slightly gentrify it and it was never like that before.

    • @derek4177
      @derek4177 Před 2 měsíci

      @@drinkallthesunshine well, what did you expect living in the LA where lots of TV-Shows and Movies are filmed? Lmao
      But your reply is kinda funny..........when she only said she loved the OC.

  • @ameliashostak4764
    @ameliashostak4764 Před rokem +39

    LOL, I'm 43 and I own every single episode of The OC that was ever made! I grew up watching 90210, and The OC was just as great when I was a little older.

  • @FukaiKokoro
    @FukaiKokoro Před rokem +75

    This era like 2000 to 2007 was horrible. I was in middle school in 2002. I was naturally a bigger girl. Having people like pairis Hilton and Nicole Richie etche and all these 00 sizes celebrities was extremely damaging. I was physically and emotionally abused by my peers which wasn't helpful because I had unrelated trauma already so being physically and emotionally abused by peers only added to my truama.
    Even one of my teachers would join in the bullying.
    I still yo this day have serious body issues and self worth because of that era.
    Also doesn't help that when id loose any amount weight instantly people started treating me human. Then if I'd gain a little back to being sub human.
    I wish I wasn't a kid during that era. It's really messed me up. I hope it's better now for teenage girls. I'm hopeful but weary.

    • @catpoofy
      @catpoofy Před rokem +6

      I had the same middle school situation. I was chubby and was/am curvy, big butt, and that was not in. One thing the Kardashians did for me was make big butts so accepted LOL

    • @bbghoul_x
      @bbghoul_x Před rokem +5

      I can relate. I ended up getting an eating disorder at 12. Started as bulimia and then anorexia too and then eventually I was over exercising on top of barely eating or eating so much I threw it up. Now I just binge eat :/

    • @shanzys2cents
      @shanzys2cents Před 11 měsíci +3

      I was a teen during this time too and can confirm it was terrible. I never saw the show or payed much attention to tabloid culture so I find this fascinating.

    • @sococomfort22s34
      @sococomfort22s34 Před 8 měsíci +1

      Idk how much of your trauma and many young ladies trauma about their weight comes from other women? There are a lot of guys who don’t mind a women/girl that has a few extra pounds. Women really do place way to much of their worth on their looks tho imo

    • @ilovebooks49
      @ilovebooks49 Před 8 měsíci +2

      @@sococomfort22s34 the fact that you're trying to blame women for these problems and then say that women with "a few extra pounds" can be acceptable to men only because of their sexual value really says everything about your small mind

  • @alexsandrocastrodasilvajun79

    She was so good actress on the oc, she deserve better

  • @LozPez
    @LozPez Před 11 měsíci +15

    I love Mischa, and cannot believe the people around her, especially family treating her like that, so selfish. Growing up in the “Hollywood” scene would be such an eye opener and easy to be led astray, which makes me sick. I truly hope Mischa has found peace and a loving supporting circle of friends who are actually loyal/trustworthy to her, as she deserves the best ❤

  • @taylorgayhart9497
    @taylorgayhart9497 Před rokem +17

    Running away shouldn’t be used against someone ever. It’s a natural instinct to run, it’s the flight in “fight or flight”, and if someone doesn’t feel like they’re safe and run away, there is nothing wrong with that.

  • @isabellouis3833
    @isabellouis3833 Před rokem +13

    She will always be one my favorite actresses from the 2000s. Her character in The O.C. meant a lot to me. Mischa deserves better ❤❤❤

  • @mapsbolt3663
    @mapsbolt3663 Před rokem +9

    Wow! That was so great! Your work, the both of you (and BJ of course) inspires me sooooooo much to do my own deep dives for the space/ art word I live in. Thanks again!

  • @whitneyS2011
    @whitneyS2011 Před rokem +7

    Again yall know its going to be real good! LOVE this channel!

  • @tianna7453
    @tianna7453 Před rokem +9

    So happy you're doing this on her!!

  • @cutievalentineheart1362
    @cutievalentineheart1362 Před rokem +1

    Ive always wondered about mischa ! This is my fave deep dive so far ... very well done !

  • @loulouedmo
    @loulouedmo Před rokem +25

    Bring back Mischa - she’s an awesome artist and I know she has a good soul ❤

  • @Oilerpa
    @Oilerpa Před rokem +6

    Great Job as always Shelby!!

  • @jessicapizzolante8423
    @jessicapizzolante8423 Před 7 měsíci +10

    The way she responds to paparazzi you can tell she's a GOOD person. A very good person, which very bad things had happened.

  • @iamjonathanhess
    @iamjonathanhess Před rokem +1

    IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THANK YOU

  • @margotlescargot
    @margotlescargot Před 6 měsíci +5

    This show came out during my HS years and it was the best time of my teen drama life!
    I was heartbroken when she died and I still haven’t watched season 4. 😢
    I didn’t realize how younger than the other casts she was and looking back now as an adult that must have been insane pressure. I hope she is happy now. 😇

  • @vampirequeen953
    @vampirequeen953 Před rokem +13

    This was absolutely so sad!!!! How kids are treated in the industry is absolutely so sickening!!!

  • @stevenousleyII
    @stevenousleyII Před rokem +10

    Omg Shelby !! This was an excellent deep dive, adore you, and you have THE most soothing voice literally ever! Love you xo Steven ❤😊

  • @kimberlym1183
    @kimberlym1183 Před rokem +1

    YASSS girl bring my days of following the drama on livejournal backkkk, i KNEW there was more to the story than we were being told!

  • @cuteartsyguy
    @cuteartsyguy Před rokem

    You really did your research wow! Excellent video, I did not want it to end.

  • @quinnm.3127
    @quinnm.3127 Před rokem +17

    yay, think i suggested this a while back, but if not i am happy you're covering her.
    i remember her freaking out that her mom was horrible, and i remember dr phil telling her to embrace the dark or something..
    Will miss the live, but looking forward to this.
    maybe they should've 5150d the mom before she made someone freak tf out 👀💭

  • @ubermut1379
    @ubermut1379 Před rokem +13

    Im so sorry for her having gone through all of that. I hope she finds some trustworthy people and a safe and successful life. Truly heartbreaking how people were always exploiting her, even her neighbours, family and ex-boyfriends. How deep do you have to Fall to not call an ambulance when you see someone struggling but to film them and sell it to some news outlet???

  • @okaywow3486
    @okaywow3486 Před rokem +45

    The neighbor filming Mischa in a distressed state was not that long ago. i was in my mid 20s at the time. i can only hope Mischa understands her NEIGHBOR is the one that IMMEDIATELY looked bad. Filming someone in such a powerless state, without their knowledge or permission, is a highly questionable action, ESPECIALLY since Mischa hadn't posed any kind of threat to anyone's SAFETY--just her own. If I'm remembering correctly the neighbor was on the phone with 911 when she was filming and was speaking about Mischa with extreme contempt. Even without the being drugged/ GHB context, it objectively looked like Mischa was suffering an extreme TRAUMA response. Just call an ambulance....Why did you film anyone so DEFENSELESS and decide to monetize that? It's disturbing. Mischa has obviously experienced so much trauma throughout her life and then to be violated even further when you think you're safe in your own home...that is exceptionally tragic.

    • @ameerahmoore3542
      @ameerahmoore3542 Před 6 měsíci +4

      I think after her mom lost the case she got someone to slip her ghb hoping she did something or something darker happened to her :/ I already had thoughts of an conservatorship and the way she was acting screams ghb and you don’t remember shit. I was drugged too :/

  • @Tylalala
    @Tylalala Před rokem +10

    Never heard of this actress but I love the way your videos are produced so I have to watch!! This makes me want to start watching the oc since I’ve never seen it but I’m so over teen shows. Maybe since it’s an older one it’ll be more bearable lol

  • @FukaiKokoro
    @FukaiKokoro Před rokem +13

    That eye roll, tone of voice and the mh hhhhhhm when Perez said "I swear on my kids life" 😂 that was amazing!!

  • @godi03
    @godi03 Před 9 měsíci

    I love this video for the fact that it sheds a light on the dangers of fame and not knowing what you are getting yourself into. Thanks Mischa.

  • @iamjonathanhess
    @iamjonathanhess Před rokem +11

    waiting for nicole richies docu series !!! i literally cannot wait

  • @sheltoy1
    @sheltoy1 Před rokem +4

    this is such a good video. period!!!!!

  • @annm7619
    @annm7619 Před rokem +14

    We like to think we've moved on from the 2010's era tabloids but people are still spreading her business and personal health information with the public like anyone has a right to know that without her consent. I hope she has a better future. She's an amazingly talented actress and deserves better than she's gotten.

  • @amandabillingsley9436

    This was really good. Thank you!

  • @MsElectricGamer
    @MsElectricGamer Před rokem +1

    this was such a good deep dive

  • @Jess-kn8vl
    @Jess-kn8vl Před rokem +13

    She has been through it! She seems strong and confident in sharing her story which is very inspiring. She could teach people a few lessons!

  • @deanj0805
    @deanj0805 Před rokem +14

    I think someone had a vendetta against her because she was hunted by the media for no known reason. It just didn’t make any sense.

  • @amorabeau
    @amorabeau Před rokem

    This is so well made!!

  • @melissamartinez3593
    @melissamartinez3593 Před rokem +19

    God the early 2000s where toxic af

  • @HeteroSkeletal
    @HeteroSkeletal Před rokem +31

    I remember despising her back in the day and couldn’t recall why.. now I know it was jealousy because pro ana blogs plastered her all over for “thinspo” and I resented her and any other Hollywood beauty with that body type. Man everyone was so mean to her and me included.

  • @ronesss33
    @ronesss33 Před rokem +13

    She has joined Neighbours in Australia. Will be very interesting to see what she will bring to the show in its long awaited return (after being cancelled last year) 😻

  • @BamPete
    @BamPete Před rokem +11

    I’ve always been such a fan of Mischa Barton, she’s such a good actress. She’s done some really good movies too. I hope she’s doing well now ❤

  • @PrincessDie187
    @PrincessDie187 Před rokem +20

    Sophie Monk is an absolute sweetheart. She's a TV presenter over here in Australia

    • @rcg1111
      @rcg1111 Před rokem

      She could have left out the last part though.

    • @caramelbilquees
      @caramelbilquees Před 5 měsíci +1

      Well not really she's showing his Hollywood really is full of fake, shallow, and full of backstabbers